#314: College girl murdered by Special Ops for being an “International Spy"

25:31But instead, he just seemed very elusive, if not just downright agitated when the parents asked questions about his life, which is very strange. And I know it might not make as much sense in Western culture. And I'm sure in different Chinese families, it's different as well. Like our family is a little bit different. But when you bring home a partner in traditional Chinese culture, it's very common, I think, even in Korea, for parents to ask a little bit more details about that partner's job, potentially even how much they earn. Like money is not as taboo like it is in Western culture. Yeah, because for them, you have to know what...

26:08Yeah, not even that. It's like you're getting married. It's a way for them to gauge your level of income, education, and ultimately your ability to provide, which is what they care about. Now, it goes both ways. It's not just for the men. It's also for the women. Like, they're just a little bit more blunt with these types of life questions. Yeah, it's more transparent. In their culture, it's a sense of merging of two families. So it's important to know where you stand. I mean, I can see like the downsides of it, but I also see the upsides of it. I think knowing what your partner is doing and their life goals and ambitions and everyone's on the same page is very good.

26:40So Hong refused to answer these questions. And they didn't like that. They're like, why would he refuse to answer these questions if something weird isn't going on? So he didn't tell them he's special ops? No, he didn't even tell them he was in the military. Eventually, Hong let Lily open up to her parents and he said, you can tell them I'm in the military, but please, can we just leave it at that? Like, I can't just go around telling everyone I'm on the special ops team. He's not like a secret spy. He's not out there infiltrating other countries. He's like a Navy SEAL. And I guess his special ops team, they had a little bit more secrecy than Navy SEALs do.

27:10in terms of like who you can tell you're a Navy SEAL or not. So he's like, you know, I just, it's not the worst thing if people find out I'm special ops, but it's not the best thing. So just tell them I'm in the military. And his dad also worked in the government. So the parents, Lily's parents, they kind of came around. They actually started joking that Lily was dating above her league, meaning Hong's parents, their background is very, very good. Government jobs, incredible. And him being in the military, another government position, this is a good on paper marriage but they still didn't really like the guy there was nothing in particular that they hated there was no strong incident that they could point back to and be like that was the day that i chose to despise him he was just purely unlikable he's just not someone that we love is their vibe just the personality maybe we're nitpicky because it's our only kid it's our only daughter there's nothing inherently wrong with him in the beginning it was he was very elusive, didn't answer questions.

28:07And then once they found out about his job, they actually liked the fact that his parents and his whole family came from a very respectable background. But they still couldn't really embrace him with open arms because he just didn't really have a likable personality. There was no strong incident that was raising any red flags or anything like that. They didn't feel like he was abusive or anything. He just wasn't likable. So the parents, they actually start suspecting Hong of being something more than unlikable when they get that same feeling from Lily's disappearance. The feeling that they can't quite put their finger on, but it feels like he's evading their questions.

28:42When the parents found out that Lily had gone to Yunnan, the first thing that they did was call Hong to talk to him about it. And in passing, because the parents, they have plans to go to Yunnan to look for their daughter, they ask him casually, have you been before? Maybe it would have been nice for him to come along, or maybe give them the lay of the land if he had visited. But instantly, he gets very agitated, and they said that he announced in a very serious, almost snappy tone, I've never been. But a few days later, when the parents mentioned in passing to the police that they're going to go look for their daughter in Yunnan, the police asked if Hong is going since records show that he had been there before just two months ago.

29:19So Lily's parents, they never liked Hong, but never in a million years did they suspect that he would be involved in her disappearance because how could he be? How could he be when he's sitting there every day, staring them in the eye, crying about how much he misses lily but the more they think about it the more suspicious everything is like the fact that out of everyone hong seemed really into the idea that lily went to that border town to deal drugs even though he could not back up his theory with any evidence they live together and you don't even have an ounce of evidence that she's interested in drugs that she's doing drugs that she's making money from drugs nothing just feelings and vibes because he's saying that she went to deal drugs he really liked that theory he kept telling the parents i think this is a good theory like we should look into this theory this seems the most plausible i believe this theory this makes so much sense to me and they're like how does that make sense to you because everybody else that knows lily is like never in a million years it just didn't make sense the only thing that you could really base this theory off of is she went to a border town yeah yeah that somewhat has illegal activity but so does every other town in the whole world yeah i mean that makes him instantly suspicious yes like if your loved one is missing the last thing you're going to do is ping them into a criminal so that people are caring less about your loved one it's like what even if you have an inkling or suspicion you wouldn't do that it's like against your best there's no evidence yeah obviously it makes no sense so the authorities they get heavily involved later on and they're able to track down lily's last known whereabouts in yunan along with two men that they believed were the main suspects in her potential disappearance, potential murder.

30:57Z and C. One was a cop. The other one was an unemployed wannabe military man. Neither of them are hung. So they bring in Z and C. And immediately when confronted about everything, they start opening up. They're like, yeah, she's dead. The two looked calm, proud even. They smirked and they're telling the officers along the lines of look we really didn't want to we had to though and i i think it's above your pay grade but it's operation irene if you call the military the special ops team they'll know what we're talking about no freaking way the police did call the military there was no operation irene and z and z are saying yeah it's just super secret we're dealing with national security here this is an international spy we're talking about you deal with traffic tickets, we deal with threats to our country.

31:47They both wholeheartedly believed military officials would march down into the police station and back them up and thank them, shake their hand for taking down a spy. They would be freed and recruited into the military. Wait, so is she a spy? No. She's not a spy? No. The police told them, wake up ZNC, she's not a spy. No military official is going to walk down into this police station and save you. No one. Operation Irene is in your head. But they wholeheartedly believe that. Yes, and they have evidence. They say, here, we can give you the guy that commissioned the operation. Call him up and he can clear things up.

32:30So we'll give you the military man. They show the police their group chat along with the guy's Instagram. It is filled with videos of him training with guns, running around, doing drills. and they're like, see, this guy is special forces. He's in the military. The police don't even know how to respond. They didn't know if this was a really bad attempt from ZNC at lying or if they were being serious because they looked down at the Instagram that was presented to them. These were not military drills. They were videos of men playing paintball or have you heard of real life counter-strike? Counter-strike is a shooter game and it combines it with real life sports like paintball.

33:04So you pretend like you're playing counter-strike but in real life using paintball guns. like a laser tag place basically shut the front door anyone well in china at least usually once you're of a legal age you can most likely go and play real life counter-strike you don't need any sort of knowledge or military background or guns like a regular civilian can go sometimes militaries do go as practice but this is a role-playing game at the end of the day like those celebrities they play like reality tv show like those it's real life counter-strike so whoever this was was not part of the military, let alone a special forces agent.

33:39Oh, so he's not even part of the military. Yeah, and that Instagram was Hong's. Hong was not special ops. He was not part of the military. He was an unemployed college dropout that just had a thing for wearing camo. It was basically his uniform. He was practically invisible. He would wear camo to the grocery store to run errands. He loved camo. Sometimes he would wear full combat gear, combat boots, combat knee guards, pants. He made it his whole personality. He would have a concept, a whole life story around it. Camo, military, special forces, secret spy. He was never, ever, not even once part of the military.

34:21But he would convince people, including a police officer. He convinced a real police officer and another individual that had generations inside of his family that were involved in the military that he was special ops. Wait, so those two are actual police officers. These are not like random civilians, like 15-year-olds that got swept up in an online catfish scenario. No, these are adults. One of them is a police officer. The other one has three generations of military background in his family. And the girlfriend and the parents. So everyone believed him. Yes, but I think for the girlfriend and the parents, I would believe him.

34:59If someone tells me they're a Navy SEAL, I'm not going to be like, no, you're not. You're totally not, right? Especially if there's so many things that kind of give me that confirmation bias. I'm like, oh yeah, okay, that's a Navy SEAL. That's not that crazy. There's a lot of Navy SEALs out there. But for the police officer and for the guy with the military background, I don't know how they were convinced. He would convince them with so much certainty that these two, the cop and the military guy, would commit murder. That is crazy. I think a lot of netizens were very confused on the fact that he managed to convince these people.

35:34He didn't seem particularly convincing of a liar if you knew anything about the special forces. You know, like I said, for Lily and her parents and everybody else, it's a little bit different. I mean, what do we really know about the special ops? Like, not much. It's so much easier for me to get tricked into thinking that someone is a CIA agent versus a real FBI agent being fooled by someone posing as a CIA agent. Hong's favorite topics included camouflage. No, really. He talked about camouflage, wearing camouflage. There's a conversation starter for him. Military weapons, military equipment, hand-to-hand combat, boxing, guns.

36:11I would imagine that this is the type of man that likes to narrate how he would take someone down, where he's like, then you grab them by the neck, then you throw them down, karate kick them from behind, then you swing your left arm, and then you punch them square in the jaw. To give you further context, to back up that, when he was in college, he wanted to show his friends how to do hand-to-hand combat. And instead of practicing hand-to-hand combat with his friends that he's trying to teach in college, he ends up breaking three school doors because he's like, I'm going to hand-to-hand combat these doors.

36:40He was temporarily suspended. He spent most of his time during suspension browsing Taobao for military goods. That is like browsing Amazon for military gear. Yeah. It was after college he gets introduced to Z and C, and they both thought, this guy knows what he's doing. In their eyes, he was a national hero. He's mysterious, strong leadership qualities, agile. He was probably employee of the month of the special ops. That's how these two felt. They would beg him to introduce them to the special forces so that they too could become special agents. But Hong said they had to prove themselves first.

37:16If Hong called them, the two would rush at the crack of dawn to meet with him on the tracks. Run 10 miles. They would do it. They never questioned the orders. This was their way of becoming a special agent, which they felt like was a God-given opportunity. This is so silly. These are adults too, yeah. Yeah, they're playing some sort of role-playing game. Initially, I would believe this story a lot more if they were like 15-year-olds. They're like special forces, and this old adult is like special forces. But they're all adults. They said that meeting Hong felt like the best blessing to them. Not everyone gets an opportunity like this.

37:57Even though Z had three generations of military history in his family, even though Z was a cop, none of them knew anyone in the special forces. And now they could be in the special forces. They felt this was the best thing that ever happened to them. But it's also the thing that's going to get them killed. If Hong told them to do 50 push-ups, they would do 70 trying to impress him. Hong created a group chat for them called the People's Army 8th Corps Special Operations Team. Everyone had to have nicknames in the WeChat because they can't let anyone know their real identities. Hong chose the very inconspicuous name of Boss.

38:33Very subtle, very non-suspicious. And it was in this group chat that they start hatching up their plan to murder Lily. And this is the part of the case that goes viral because now we're breaking down the case. Hong is not special ops. these two honestly like these two parents they keep trying to argue publicly the brainwashing must have been good because my son is a cop and like cops are very alert of these types of scams and stuff so hung must be incredibly intelligent so they're saying the two people are fully manipulated rather than they're responsible but a lot of nosins don't really believe it because everything from hung's demeanor and the way that he's carried everything out it doesn't seem convincing it doesn't seem that intelligent no okay it seems like these two just really wanted to be in the special ops and they just kind of ran with this it's like they wanted it so bad they allowed to believe it got it allowed themselves to believe it there was no critical thinking skills applied on this i don't think they're the victim of a scam exactly okay because their parents kind of make it seem like they're victims of a scam they literally brutally snapped a woman's neck.

39:41So we're breaking it down. Hong is not special forces. These two are killers. So is Hong. But why, if she's not a spy, why would she have to die? That's the part that all the netizens were like, wait a minute. We still have so many questions. I mean, these three guys sound like they're badly written fictional characters. But what about Lily? Like genuinely, what is the motive here? There's no motive. A missed New Year's Day kiss in 20 minutes is the motive. Let me explain. Hong was quickly arrested. So were Z and Z. So all of them are sitting in the interrogation room, separate interrogation rooms.

40:13And when Hong was asked, why would you even want them to kill your girlfriend? That to us doesn't make sense. Like, why would you want something like this? He said the plan started New Year's Day 2020. He had been dating Lily for about a month and it was New Year's Day. Lily and some of Hong's friends came over to his place. This is before they're living together. but for some strange inexplicable reason without explanation lily left the room right before the new year's day countdown so it's like you know to midnight it's like five four three that really pissed him off whether he was expecting some sort of new year's kiss or he felt embarrassed in front of his friends or it hurt his feelings i don't know but this was the moment that he felt like this girl kind of deserves to die that's just out of this world i i tried to research the psychology of something like this.

41:01I don't know. Maybe it's like he feels disrespected, like one of those. Yes. The only thing that I can see is he felt emasculated by this, that she didn't A, either alert him or get his permission to leave. You know what? I think a lot of the fact that he wants to be a special op with these two minions is he wants the sense of being power, respected, look up to. Just the fact that she left? Really? That's the reason? yeah wow like yeah what is this that's i mean the only thing that we can think of because this man goes out of his way now to not even just cut her off to continue dating her when he already wants to kill her he has her move in dates her for many many more months just so he can kill her netizens commented on his motive and they just commented question mark question mark because none of it makes sense it doesn't even make sense that's dangerous psychologically like that kind of motive is so dangerous, right?

42:01This reminds me of the Busan Roundhouse kick. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But this one's even worse because he waits five months. And gets closer together. Getting to know her more, seeing more the human side of her. You would imagine that more connection is being built. He has five months to not do this, but he planned out this for five months.

42:32Well, there's another thing, okay? I don't know if he mentioned it, but it was kind of interpreted by a lot of people that once they moved in, he was on and off about, do I kill her or do I not kill her? Until April 2020th, another incident takes place. Lily asked her if he could pick her up from work at the end of her shift. He agreed. But when he showed up, she wasn't downstairs waiting for him. And so he texted her and she let him know it's going to take another five minutes because work isn't letting her go, which is very understandable. He felt like it's very annoying, but it's fine. But she doesn't come down for another 25 minutes.

43:0725 minutes! He believed that she had done something vile during those 25 minutes, like maybe go and sleep with her boss or something. All the while, he's just waiting downstairs for her like a stupid boyfriend. Wow. It was after this incident that he immediately went home to text the 8th Corps of the Special Forces team and stated that he discovered his girlfriend Lily was a secret agent from an enemy country, that she was in here tasked with infiltrating his life because he's a Special Ops Force agent, stealing national secrets, embezzling public funds from China, and endangering national security.

43:44She had to be eliminated. The three of them started referring to Lily as Fox, the one that they needed to kill, and the operation for the murder was named Operation Irene. Hong would lure out the fox to the mountains of Yunnan where Z and Xi would be waiting for her. He would stay back in Nanjing because he was the one with the connection to Lily. So he's making it seem like, you know, I still can't be seen in that town because I can't get arrested. The cops and the special ops is they run different circles. The cops, they'd be fighting regular criminals. Special ops is they're killing agents and no one even knows.

44:18And, you know, once the police get involved, then the military is going to be upset because now it's become messier it can be public and everything we do is not public and police don't know how to shut their mouths right so that's why i gotta stay back in nanjing you guys have to go kill lily and because lily believed he was special ops she did not call him she waited for his instructions which was to follow the light up the mountain to the safe house and then she was murdered lily's dad has a very interesting request for the trial. He wanted it to be live streamed. Lily's dad said, I don't want a closed trial.

44:54I want this to be broadcasted to the country. He was worried about potential of bribery and corruption. He wanted to make sure that everyone could see every single part of the trial to see where it went wrong if it did, which I think it's the first time we've talked about a case in China that the family's victims specifically requested the case to be live streamed, but it does make a lot of sense. So one thing that Hong did not lie about is that his dad does work for the government. He held a high position in the judicial bureau of Nanjing and he did try to intervene to help his son get off easier.

45:26He went ahead, called Lily's dad directly to see if they could find some common ground. Father to father. He said, hello Mr. Li Sheng, I'm Hong's father. This matter has been going on for quite some time and as parents we are not happy about it either. We're also not clear about what really happened Recently, we've gathered some new funds from a few sources We're not sure if you can accept it As a parent myself, I just want to talk to you about it Basically saying, we will provide compensation Do you want to take it? Lily's dad said, I don't think that's necessary Oh sure, well let's talk about it Anyway, the weather is hot again And there's still the pandemic going on Working in Nanjing right now The work pressure must be quite high for you guys I'm just about to finish work and leave my office and I'm thinking, this is something, right?

46:14I checked your account in the group and I see that you guys are all anxious over there. Actually, if we put ourselves in each other's shoes, we could empathize with each other. I understand how you feel and I just want to talk to you about it. However, for me, I'm still willing to do something and to try and communicate with you, whether it's expressing remorse, trying to make amends, or whatever. After all, the incident has already happened and we can't change that. we're all feeling quite uneasy about it. So about this matter, I hope you can give me a chance to meet and chat with you. I guess that's the idea of my phone call.

46:45Lily's dad said, we'll see. He was just annoyed. Like the whole tone of Hong's dad's voice was, he's trying to close some sort of business deal. Like wrap up some loose ends. He talked about the murder as if it's just an inconvenience that could be solved with money. He did not have any remorse in his voice at all. In the end, Lily's dad was offered$1 ,001 ,000, which is around$140 ,000. and yes, it's a lot of money. It's life-changing money, but it's really not. Like it's really not. Lily's gone. Lily's dad is a regular corporate employee. Her mom worked at a kindergarten. They didn't have much and all they had was Lily.

47:20She was the only child and they spent every second of their lives talking about, thinking about, wondering how to be good parents so that Lily can grow up to be a good person. Lots of people said that she was very spoiled, but not in the way that you think. She was spoiled with a lot of attention and care. And people said that was the reason that she grew up to be a very responsible, kind woman. I mean, just look at what she's accomplished for her career already without even starting as a flight attendant. She went to college in Nanjing, an hour away from her hometown. But she would come back every major holiday if her grandparents, if her uncle, aunt got sick.

48:00She is on the first train back. She would sit there and clip her grandparents' toenails for them because they can't do it on their own. She wasn't doing well financially. She just graduated college. It's the pandemic. She doesn't have a job. But she's working all these random part-time jobs. She never came home empty-handed. Her arms filled with fruits, teas, clothes. And Lily's parents felt insulted at Hong and his parents that even thinking that money right now was going to make up for Lily being gone. And they knew, the annoying thing is, they knew in cases like this, if they take any form of compensation from the perpetrators, the judge goes easier on their sentencing.

48:37So even when they spent$30 ,000 of money that they do not have just to get through and travel back and forth from the town that the trial was being held at, hotel costs, attorney costs, back and forth investigations, they refused to take a single cent from the killers. They just wanted justice. Honestly, they just wanted Hong to die. They were quite vocal about pushing for the death penalty for Hong and the two others. Lily's dad said, I hope Hong will be sentenced to death. I will never give up on this. If we can't achieve this goal, I will continue to fight. And I have the confidence to keep fighting no matter how long it takes.

49:11Yeah. You know, I'm sure we all have our own opinions about the death penalty, but I think we can all at least try and see where he's coming from. Like, it's just the pain of that. This is how he feels he will get closure and justice. Finally, July 2022, two years after the murder, Hong was sentenced to death. And the other two defendants, Z and C, were given suspended death sentences. May 7th, 2023, Hong was executed after multiple attempts to appeal his death sentence. And the other two are now currently awaiting on death row. Lily was given a proper burial and her dad said, I shouldn't have been the one to choose her grave site.

49:52how can that be something a parent decides we should never have to make that choice for our kids he went on to say i just want to say to my daughter as her parents these two years have not been wasted it may not sound pleasant but we haven't let our daughter down for the 22 years that she was with us and that afternoon the parents went to go visit the mountain where lily was last alive they brought her flowers and a bucket of kfc because that was her favorite and that is the story of Lily and the very bizarre psychology of three killers. What are your thoughts? Do you think that Z and C also deserve the death penalty?

50:33Do you think that they're just as guilty? Do you think it's easy for them to be convinced? Let me know in the comments. Please stay safe and I will see you guys on Wednesday for the main episode. Bye.