#393: Giggly Baby Face Killer Shows HS Friend CORPSE Asking “Are You Squeamish Around Dead Bodies?”

29:22What if he wanted to make sure there was nothing on there? But just to clarify, Heath was never considered a suspect. A few other parts that netizens point out is obviously the fact that he's forgiving of Carly and that he's supporting her. But later when the defense asks him what his wedding day to Ashley was like and how Carly was that day, he says Carly was just her normal, wonderful self all day. A lot of netizens think just the way he describes Carly to them does not come off as very honest, but overly perfect. They feel like he fully works for the defense in trying to help her. He's bringing up stories of how smart she is, how friends depend on her.

29:57She's so sweet, so happy, so bubbly. She loves the dogs. One netizen writes, there is no way she was this calm, peaceful, and sweet all the time. She was taking medications, getting therapy, self-medicating. I mean, something was clearly wrong. So what is this? One netizen writes, defense will love his testimony. No justice for his wife, only Carly, I guess. others state that he smiles more when he talks about carly than when he talks about his own wife ashley i did notice it but i did notice it once someone pointed it out so i don't know one netizen writes i don't think i'm accusing him of anything inappropriate just stating that he's acting very strange it's weird defending the child you only knew for three years i tried to kill you now others argue that not everyone has to be skeptical of innocent people and victims They argue, yes, these types of cases have happened before where stepdads will groom the children and then might even try to get them to kill the mom or a foster child.

30:52Well, you know, there have been some cases of that. It's a lot. But they argue even when he's talking about their family life, it just seems like a man who actually enjoyed his new life with his family and his new kid. He talks about how he and Ashley surprised Carly with their second golden retriever. it just sounds like very fond memories for him which they find enduring that he and both Carly are able to think back to those positive memories other people are saying this is just unfair that you're accusing him because first of all he's a victim there's no proof and if there was law enforcement would have found it by now and second of all it's almost perpetuating this narrative that stepfathers cannot love their stepchildren without being creeps so they're saying it's just why can't we just be nice parents and not be misconstrued as creeps that are trying to groom their stepkids.

31:39I mean, they're both smiling when he's talking about it. And if you listen to the footage they released in court, you hear him get shot. Yeah. In the garage footage, you hear a bang go off and then you hear screaming and then a few more bangs go off. And then you see Carly and her friend running, jumping the fence from the back door. Also the 911 call. I mean, that was a very intense 911 call. I just don't know how someone would fake that kind of emotion if he did. That's that's an Oscar winning performance. As for getting an attorney, it makes total sense. They say you don't want to talk to a police officer without an attorney present, as well as the fact that they took his ID and didn't give it back to him.

32:15And they kept giving him these weird lectures of tampering with evidence when if he was suspicious, why would he even call them about the SD cards? The police weren't even looking for SD cards. They didn't even know the existence of these cameras. So it's not like where are the SD cards? He called it and then willingly gave it to them. So they're like, no, he's never even been considered a suspect. These group of netizens comment, if you have ever had severe trauma or PTSD, I mean, you know not to judge this man. You detach, you learn to compartmentalize the trauma. Another one reads, this is a trauma response.

32:50It's called compartmentalizing. Stop victim shaming and blaming. Another one reads, everyone really needs to stop with the accusations against the stepdad. If you don't think that detectives and prosecutors haven't already checked out that angle, you're nuts. Further, if there were something there with the stepdad, her defense attorneys would be using it as part of her defense because then she could say that she was coerced or manipulated into doing these things by another adult. Another suspects that he might just be very medicated right now. And I will say, I think it would be really hard to fake that 911 call.

33:20One netizen comments, the grief in his cries for his wife is earth shattering. Or I don't feel that he's covering up or hiding anything. I think this is a man destroyed. He's just numb. He's answering all the questions asked. That's my opinion Others think not only do they feel bad for Heath But it just shows how good Carly is at manipulating people. She fooled her friends She tricked her mom her psychiatrist and now her stepdad Especially because he's in such a vulnerable state. He might feel almost to a degree trauma bonded to Carly In a sense Carly might be the only other person that went through what he went through that day Or maybe even helping her will give him a purpose to try and offset the bad some netizens have speculated or perhaps it's the guilt of missing your wife and knowing that perhaps ashley would not want her daughter to be rotting in prison for the rest of her life one netizen comments i feel he's being manipulated by carly and is making himself look like a creep for defending her which many netizens can see just the way he talks about carly it sounds like someone who has been charmed almost when he talks about how intelligent she is he states she was always complaining to us that kids constantly bug her for help with school work because she can do all of it so easily and she can explain it to them better than most teachers.

34:31And she got so tired of them coming to her for stuff. She loves school, but she was almost bored with school a lot of days, even though she was in the advanced classes. She was a light year ahead of everything they're teaching. You know, anything new, she picks up and just wants to be a step ahead of the teachers. At one point, the defense attorney asks, in all the time that you've known Carly, would you describe her as callous? No. Calculating? No, not except, um, except with math And he smiles and Carly smiles So Carly's grandparents have also been in attendance Ashley's parents, it seems She smiles at them whenever she comes into the courtroom So people use that as proof that Carly's just very manipulative, it seems Do we see the grandparents' reaction?

35:16Yes, um, not in the high emotional moments But when she smiles at them And they're typically stoic and smiling back yeah there might be a legal aspect to all of this too some people say no he's not defending carly because he is like doing something weird with carly it might be because he's trying to protect himself technically the gun used to shoot ashley is registered to heath heath knows that prior to this she was seeing a therapist and carly was mentally unstable some netizens believe that could fall on heath he could get some sort of charges for having his gun so easily accessible because recently with all the other happenings, the school shootings, that has been the case where parents know that their children are mentally unstable and still let them have access to weapons.

36:02They also get charged, which rightfully so. But some people think he's doing this defensive like, no, nothing was wrong. Nothing was wrong. So that he doesn't get legally held potentially for having her have access to these weapons. So some people are saying it's not a weird thing. He's doing this for his legal thing. And that's probably why he also got an attorney. I don't know about this theory. I don't know if the police would have charged him with anything, but a lot of netizens have been pointing it out. Also, there were a lot of guns in that house. There was also a shotgun and an AR unloaded, but in the closet.

36:34But still, one netizen writes, hearing that the gun was unsecured under the bed, it feels like all of this could have been prevented or reduced with proper gun safety. So that's one of the theories. And then I will say a good chunk of people fall into the category of, I don't know, but it's definitely weird. They comment very weird reactions from the stepdad, but I guess people deal with trauma differently. I don't know.

37:08One of the reasons that this case starts going viral recently is not just her interactions with her stepdad, whom she tried to kill, but Carly has very interesting court appearances and she just behaves a bit interesting. A lot of netizens have opinions on how she looks, what she's wearing, how she cries. So people point out that she was arrested in a Nirvana shirt and her hair was in this almost sporty looking bob. But now she's got this bob with bangs. She is kind of leaning into this doll girl type of aesthetic. I don't know. Obviously, nobody expects her to show up in court with her Nirvana shirt on.

37:44but some netizens think that she's clearly, clearly dressing in a way that is very reminiscent of Catholic schoolgirl outfits. Plaid dresses, collared dress shirts, cardigans with gold buttons, all the way frilly sleeves. Some netizens comment, who thought dressing her up like an eight-year-old would be believable? I don't know. The outfit makes her look more evil. The little Catholic schoolgirl thing does not work on us. They also say with her hair, the short hair with the bangs and the outfits they say she looks like the girl from the movie orphan which makes this creepier but some commentators think it's working they write I mean she's got that little pumpkin face this little bob she looks very innocent others make comments about how the defense is working overtime with her styling saying surprised they didn't just put her in something pink with unicorns on it yeah so that's that's been a huge topic of conversation.

38:36I will say her baby face is kind of out of this world. She does look a lot younger than she is. And defense attorneys to their defense will coach their clients on what to wear, how to dress. But more so than her attire, I think it's her demeanor. I mean, the first day she looks a bit more distressed. But other than that, most of the time she looks like she's seen crazier stuff, like more exciting stuff. She looks like she's in the pews of Easter Sunday church sermon. she looks kind of disinterested one of the times she's very emotional during heath's 9-1-1 call when that's played she's pretty engaged when heath is on the stand and she's the most locked in when the defense expert the psychiatrist goes up there to talk about how mentally unwell she is what is she doing she's just locked in locked in so fascinating yeah like what are they saying just talking about her just that she has potentially schizophrenia she's bipolar she was not of her right mind and she's just locked in but not the locked in is weird the locked in is almost it's she's fascinated by how someone perceives her how this expert perceives her there is an authoritative look to her when she's locked in it's not like oh my gosh i'm so nervous what's happening like i don't understand these words he's saying it's almost analytical studying which is kind of it was a little creepy at times yeah it was a little unsettling she does giggle and smirk a lot during the trial there was one time okay there was one where the prosecutor's expert went up there and he's talking about yeah i don't think she's crazy I read through her journals.

40:21I spoke with her. I'm a psychiatrist. I don't think she's crazy. And like the whole Tom Riddle thing, that's from Harry Potter. And he's talking about the connections with Harry Potter and all these villains. She seems to have an obsession with villains. And she just smirks. A full smirk. Not even like a smirk, like a full smirk. Sometimes she's giggling with her attorneys. I don't know if they're writing something, but she'll just giggle. She scribbles something on a piece of paper. her defense attorney, and I don't know what the context is, but she thinks it's hilarious and she just starts giggling.

40:55It's just not appropriate. Another point of frustration for netizens is she really only cries when someone calls her a victim of some sort. She just can't help but cry. And there are other times when her defense attorneys talk about how close she is with her mom. She starts blinking rapidly. Her lips get thin and she starts nodding up and down like, yes, yes, we were. A lot of people feel like it's very forced. You tell me. She also does this thin-lipped looking down shy smile when the defense like talks about her grades and how smart she is like oh stop stop i'm embarrassed or when the defense talks about how she's not a deranged child she's not a troubled child she does these strange little like no head shakes and her lips are thin like she's trying to cry and she just shakes her head no it's just it feels like she's very performative for the jury and it's just doesn't feel natural a lot of it's not working no a lot of the comments read me when i force myself to cry sometimes she'll have these moments where she just looks straight into the camera of the live streaming court stuff where it just feels like she's breaking the fourth wall the whole thing is unsettling she'll just stare straight into the camera many netizens also point out that she just cries at weird times i mean she could be in her head but she'll just start busting out into tears while they're swearing in a witness, like a random witness, like a police officer, who's probably not going to say anything crazy, but she'll just start crying while they're being sworn in.

42:23It's just very odd. On top of that, when a state witness, so her opposition, if you will, if they state something about her that puts her in a negative light, she'll just sometimes smirk here and there. And then she'll like take these side glances to her stepfather who's sitting in the court supporting her and then they'll smile at each other. And her behavior is definitely unsettling. And it's not working in the defense's favor because their whole argument here is that Carly is insane. They state that prior to this, Carly has, they're saying she is like the poster child for someone who might have a psychotic break.

42:57They're saying that her biological father is bipolar. Now, the state brought up an expert who said, well, I went through her father's medical records because I was allowed to. and I saw that he had a one hour consultation with a doctor and they diagnosed him with bipolar disorder, bipolar two to be exact. But one hour is not enough. And that same doctor prescribed him Adderall, which is an ADHD medication. And this psychiatrist for the state is saying, that is not common. When you have someone with bipolar two, you would be very, very hesitant and careful to prescribe a controlled substance like Adderall.

43:36The defense also states that her dad is schizophrenic and they state that that means Carly has a higher chance of being schizophrenic, but he has never been diagnosed, at least from what the state could find of having schizophrenia. They state that prior to this, Carly was seeing a therapist here and there for a few weeks because she was just having bouts of depression. She just became very lethargic. Her mom was really worried about her. She would go see this therapist like once or twice a week, never mentioned hearing voices, but suddenly in prison after the murder, she reports that she's been hearing voices since she was a little kid.

44:10The state's experts argue that's actually not very realistic. People don't start hearing voices when they're seven years old. Maybe it's an internal monologue that they mistake as a voice in their head, but these hallucinations don't come in that early and that consistently. They also state that Carly was put on antidepressants. She was first put on Zoloft and that made her feel like a quote zombie. They switched her medication to Lexapro. They think that that medication switch also caused a psychotic break in her head. The state is arguing Lexapro usually causes self-exit ideations, not homicidal ideations.

44:49So this just doesn't make sense either. Like, are we really pulling the Lexapro defense because it doesn't really work? The defense also states the weed, the self-medicating was also very volatile for her mental state, which most people argue it's just weed. She should not be doing it at 14, but it's just weed. And a lot of comments were saying, if she was doing meth, cocaine, crack, all these things, I might be like, okay, yeah, that could probably cause a psychotic break. But weed, people were saying it doesn't make any sense. They also state that coupled with sudden disappointment that she knew her mom was feeling because on the way home, she found out that her mom found out that there were vape pens in her room.

45:26She didn't wanna feel that disappointment because she loves her mom so much that it rendered her into a state of psychosis and then she murdered her mother in a state of psychosis. So would I say out of all the insanity defenses that I've researched before, is this a good one? I would say it's probably one of the worst ones. Worst ones. Especially for a 14 year old, I feel like you could have done an okay job considering her age. What do you mean you could have done an okay job? Because she's already 14. She's been in therapy. I feel like there would have been a lot of ways for a good defense attorney to try and spin a whole story about how she's unwell.

46:05I don't think it would have been believable in the end, but these defense attorneys were very questionable. Really? Yeah. I think they were probably, yeah, one of the worst defense attorneys I've seen. Yeah. And the biggest thing is the defense states that before Carly shot her mom, she blacks out, doesn't remember coming home. Okay. She gets home, blacks out, shoots her mom she comes to in the storm drain she crawls out of the storm drain but the state points out the fact that in the body cam footage her hands are getting swabbed and then she confirms it's a pistol she asks about her stepdad so they're asking okay how could you black out and still remember those things additionally her psychiatrist is stating that she is having these nightmares where she hears gunshots go off and this is in prison while she's awaiting trial now the state argues if you blacked out you don't remember so why would you have these ptsd like dreams about it if you don't recall that if that's not something that you did how could you have nightmares about it and then also they argue that her journal it sounds like someone who wants it to be read it sounds kind of like um like a little kid reads a book on psychosis and then writes a journal about it and the journal was written all like recently yes like how recent was it within the oldest entry i think they brought up into evidence was maybe a few months old oh there was one in 2023 so like 11 months before she allegedly wrote i'm a schizophrenic person i'm crazy i miss the comfort of being sane i just want to find true love then maybe i wouldn't be so crazy.

47:45I'm scared. I need help. Something along those lines. And the psychiatrist for the state was like, again, it just sounds like every symptom in the book that she's trying to replicate into this journal. It sounds very villainous. All these things are a little bit odd. And it just, and the way that she writes about hearing voices, she writes, it's silly. Actually, the state psychiatrist says, if you've met anyone with auditory hallucinations, they would never trivialize it. They would never say it's silly actually, because these are real to them it's so traumatizing it's so haunting for them they're terrified of these voices they're not gonna downplay it and say i'm just so silly i hear these voices i see yeah and also he his whole argument in support of carly was trying to argue that it seemed like carly was out of her mind she didn't even recognize him when she shot at him that's how he says it but she did text on her mom's phone you coming home honey like it's very clear that she's luring him in additionally one of the main notes of her psychiatrist that was seeing her prior to the murder was that carly reported being angry with her friends because they weren't as serious as her the psychiatrist wrote she never reported hearing voices she was just kind of rude to people she felt were not as smart as she was she felt like she was losing patience with her teachers it seems like she gets off on being better than others.

49:08She would tell her therapist in almost a bragging way that she was reading Crime and Punishment, which is about a main character who is obsessed with his own intellectual superiority that he starts planning to murder someone to get away with it. And he does in fact murder someone and his whole life starts unraveling. He descends into a very scary state of paranoia, self-loathing. He's being hunted by a detective till he's ultimately confessed and is sentenced to hard labor. And they report that she does seem to have these very strange wants to appear a certain way. But that was about it. Other than that, she seemed a little depressed.

49:41The state argues Carly likely heard her mom in her room finding her vape pen. That's why she was listening. Then she walks with purpose quickly directly to where the object is that could kill her mother. In her mom's room is the gun under the mattress. To me, that sounds like an intact motor function. It shows coordination and it suggests a specific intent. She did not walk to the kitchen and grab a banana, which is something that many psychotic patients would do, like when they're in psychosis, in a state of psychosis. A lot of the times when people are in a state of psychosis, they don't harm others.

50:15They end up harming themselves by accident. She walks directly to where the sole object is that could kill her mother, retrieves it. In a very methodical manner, she peeks around the corner while hiding this object. These are high functioning things that take several areas of the brain. It's almost predatory, in my opinion. That is the statement of the state's expert. And even with the two shots to Ashley's brain, he believes it takes marksmanship that shows a high level of brain functioning to shoot someone in the head like that. He says if he were to describe the crime, the psychiatrist states, the word would be diabolical.

50:52And in fact, he states Carly is actually quite charming and manipulative in a sense. He says she's very likable. I liked her. I don't like saying any of these things. Wow. Yeah. Wow. So with the closing statements, the defense states, if Carly is so diabolical, so smart, so callous, why is this so dumb? Essentially, they ask nothing about this looks like a well-planned out scheme. Much of what she did seems senseless. Why plan to shoot your stepfather and invite friends over? That makes no sense. Why wouldn't she immediately just run away? I hope none of us are ever judged by the worst moment of our lives, but rather our whole lives as a whole.

51:29And when you look at the facts of this case as a whole and the picture of who Carly Gregg is on the whole, you'll see this wasn't a bad kid. This wasn't a kid who was enraged. This was a kid experiencing significant mental health issues and health issues that were running in her family that we know are hereditary. This is a kid that was compliant with the medication that she was put on. However, that medication caused her symptoms to worsen. And while she was having a state of psychosis in that episode of acute stress, she lost herself in what was the perfect storm. I'm asking you for those reasons to please find Carly Gregg not guilty by reason of insanity and finally quell this storm for Carly Gregg and her family.

52:06The prosecutor state, the defense wants you to believe that from the time she took the dogs out, she blacked out. Well, that's a real convenient time to be blacked out. But she still has the wherewithal to enter her mom's code into her phone and text someone specific. And that specific person is her stepfather, Heath Smiley. When are you going to be home, honey? They go on to argue, yes, she has mental health problems. Quote, those records state she has anxiety and depression. Ladies and gentlemen, it's indisputed that anxiety and depression don't cause you to kill someone. As for her hearing voices or having lapses in time, you did not hear that from any provider that's ever seen Carly before the crime.

52:42Was it a perfect plan? No, nobody ever said it was perfect. That's why we're here. But that is not insanity. In the end, Carly was found guilty. They are appealing her sentence, but a lot of netizens have a lot of thoughts, even with this verdict. The netizens who believe that Carly should have been found insane, not guilty by reason of insanity. They write, damn, some of you guys are brutal. She's a baby. She doesn't even have a fully developed frontal cortex. Things happen to children that develop these behaviors. They're born innocent. She's remorseful. It happens sometimes. 14 is a child. I know she took a life, but her brain is not fully developed.

53:19We're watching more and more children being treated like adults. I'm torn. The crime is really bad, yet we are dealing with a child physically, mentally, and emotionally. Poor Carly, the way her stepfather smiles at her and has a good relationship with her. I remember I started seeing a psychiatrist at 14 because I was bipolar. They had her on medication. Maybe she just flipped out. The others that do not believe she was insane at the time of the crime, that she knew what she was doing, they write, the fact that she shot her mom, came to the kitchen, and was messaging someone, heard her mom screaming, and then went back to check up on her she was fully aware of what she was doing another writes oh cry me a river she's always trying to make herself cry but it's not working sociopaths always forget to produce tears in their performances i believe those tears are real tears i just don't believe this was mental illness is another comment she cries for herself and herself only she ugly snot cried today because it suddenly became very real for her that she will spend the rest of her life in prison i don't know after hearing from her therapist nothing sounds like insanity sounds like a very intelligent girl who for all intents and purposes is now trying for some insanity defense still don't know if life is the answer but she should have taken that 40-year plea others just focus on the evidence in the trial like the footage of the dogs they write the body language of these dogs really makes it sink in for you they instantly went from tails wagging excited to see their owners to scared frantic and confused animals are so perceptive wait what happened with the dog After the gunshots, they start pacing like they look very anxious and stressed.

54:47Others are just using that as a chance to bully a 14 year old. They write, it's the chin pimples for me. Hope they sell proactive at the commissary in prison. Others are just talking about her strange courtroom cries and smiles. They write, it's the fake convulsions and strained face for me. Others think Carly is enjoying the trial and they write, look at her. She's both horrified and fascinated by what she's done. she has been sentenced to life in prison for the murder of her mother the attempted murder of her stepfather and 10 years for tampering with evidence her attorneys have expressed disappointment and they what temper with evidence oh hiding the cameras oh yeah they state that carly knows this is not the end meaning they're going to be appealing the verdict which could be possible i imagine if she claims ineffective counsel there were parts where the defense was just doing things and I'm like, what is the purpose of this?

55:38For example, the body cam footage where Carly is arrested and her hands are being swabbed. The defense kept bringing up the fact that one of the officers muted his body cam after swabbing Carly's hands. He states that he did it because he and the other officers were talking about personnel issues, like who's going where and who's taking where who. And those are lots of officers' names that don't need to be included in this evidence, right? And it's not like they were interacting with Carly at the time that they muted it. They were stepped off to the side. There were other officers with Carly. But the defense kept stating it was strange.

56:06it's against protocol is it not is it not and everyone was like i mean it is he did break protocol but what does that have to do with carly because it's not like he has any incentive or motive or there's no suspicion that he was trying to help carly not help carly in any way yeah it's unrelated right yes but they were just kept going on it like you broke admit it you broke protocol a lot of the expert stuff didn't make sense they state that she was diagnosed after the murder with bipolar 2 and was having auditory hallucinations her whole life but auditory hallucinations can happen to those with bipolar 2 but aren't as common so everything just felt very wishy-washy i don't know she could have bipolar 2 she could have been having auditory hallucinations but it just nothing made sense in fact they just basically went up there and read someone the dsm-5 is what it felt like they were like you know what it could have been this which symptoms include And DSM-5 is the...

57:04Diagnostic manual for psychiatrists. It just felt not specific to Carly and just more so a regurgitation of information of things that could possibly happen to someone when they have maybe certain conditions. It just didn't make sense. And some comments just read, this is justice. She could have admitted guilt and gotten parole after 40 years, but she didn't admit anything. And now she gets life in prison and will never be released. she chose this another comment reads she's truly shocked she thought because she was 14 and looks 12 that it was going to go in her favor another comment reads the thought of someone carrying their own killer in their stomach for nine months is truly creepy to me and depressing another just reads adult decisions have adult consequences what are your thoughts on this case it seems like everybody is very divided some people think that she should just be hospitalized Others think that she should be acquitted.

57:59I would say most are pretty happy with this conviction, but they wonder if there's a lot of other theories roaming around. What are your thoughts? Why do you think she killed her mom? Just pure evil? Some people are saying this is like a serial killer in the making, but a lot of people were also arguing it doesn't make sense. She doesn't have these trademarks that you see in a lot of serial killers. It just feels off. I don't know. What are your thoughts? Leave it in the comments. Please stay safe and I will see you in the next one.