“I Gave Birth To 4 Of My Father’s Children From The Age Of 15 Yo” - The Story Of Aziza Kibibi

35:25And not in like the jealousy sense. but in like this is my child she did one time that I witnessed she found out that my not only my father was molesting me but one of his girlfriends was as well and it happened to be one that she didn't like very much so when she confronted him about it he beat her with a belt and that was the only time that I saw her stand up for to me stand up for me so to speak um but after that she didn't again do you think it has more to do with you being molested or this other woman partaking I think it was more about the other woman because what she said to him was how could he let her touch me it was because she didn't like her so she had already accepted him touching me but then at that point she was like well how could he let her touch me I mean my father was abusive to her to my mom as well he was also abusive to this woman so he he was just an abusive person overall even in his romantic relationships but this was the only time that I have heard my mom like stand up for me but it didn't go anywhere you said there was another woman that was also abusing you is she also a pedophile or my father but he was a sexual deviant He was a sexual deviant.

37:03I know this from personal experience. This woman specifically had, I guess you can say, questionable sexual tastes that he encouraged. when the first time he molested me with her she didn't do anything she just watched he called her into the bathroom I was using the bathroom he called her into the bathroom and he raped me and he asked her how does it look to her and he bragged about and I'm 10 he bragged about the fact that I could take it all. So his words bragged about the fact that I could take it all. And she just sat there like with this smile on her face and was like, oh my gosh, it looks so good.

37:58And then I do remember her touching my shoulder at some point. Um, and then he stopped. And then the next time I had interaction with her was the following weekend. She would come and stay the night every weekend. So then the following weekend, he got me up, brought me into the living room, and she was there as well. And she came up and she kissed me. And that was the first time I had an experience with someone of the same sex. I preferred her over him because he was rough. So as weird as that sounds, it was like, well, if you had to choose one of two evils, I preferred her because she was gentle.

38:43He was rough. He was heavy. He penetrated me. But with her, it was soft kisses and gentle touches. They were both abuse, of course. I had no choice in the matter. Yes, the fear was still there because I'm a child with two adults doing things to me that I had no say in. But if you was to ask me, well, Aziza, which abuse would you prefer? Definitely her. And that's what it was like. It was like having that confusion and conflict to say, well, I am in this situation where I have no power, but who do I choose as if I was given a choice? Well, which one do I prefer? Which abuse do I prefer? Then it was definitely her.

39:33how long was she abusing you for up until i got pregnant with my oldest with my daughter while all of this is happening at 13 your dad wants you guys to stop studying yes did align with the fact that we were renovating the house so before we moved out of patterson out of the apartment next to my grandmother's house um he purchased the house and we was just going there as many times during the week that he didn't have work. So because he wanted to focus on this, he just comes into, it was my brother and I was in our bedroom, and he just came and said, no more schoolwork. No more schoolwork. Y 'all don't need to do any schoolwork.

40:18We're just focusing on building the house. Then he came with the threats. If he caught us doing schoolwork, then there would be consequences. If I could not teach my sibling, my younger siblings anymore, there would be consequences. So the reason that he gave us was because we was working on the house. But I don't believe that that was the real reason. By the time we moved into the house, and the reason why we ended up moving into the house before it was finished, it was long from finished, is because there were things happening on my mom's side of the family, which is where we lived. And they seemed to be more, what can I say?

41:06They were questioning a lot of things. There was a huge argument between my mom's brother and my father. He pulled a gun out on him. So He just packed everyone up, all of our stuff, and we moved into the house in East Orange. There were, while someplace didn't even have a roof, holes in the floor, there were no walls, no windows. And that's where we were. And we continued to work from there. And then you said there was 10 people total in that room. It was about 10 people by that time. So it was between 9 and 10 of us. And I say between 9 and 10 because then I had my daughter, right? So then that ended up making it 10.

41:52So yeah, it was about 9 of us. So it ended up being 11 of us because my dad's girlfriend, who he was molesting me with, she was living with her mom. But then at some point, she came and moved into the house as well. And when you guys are living in that house, all of you guys are sharing one room. Is he still molesting you? Yes. Yes. Now, by that time, it was everybody has to leave the room. So he could have sex with whoever, me, my mom, whatever girlfriend, or he would just do it different places in the house. There were there were even though they weren't finished, but the house was massive. It had like five bedrooms, three or four bathrooms, a huge.

42:39So it was a massive house. So he would just find places. And even before we moved there, there were the times that he would take my brother and I only to go and work. And then he would give my brother something to do. And he would take me to the attic and rape me. And it would be freezing cold. Like, because my father worked on the house. We worked on the house. Didn't matter. Spring, summer, fall, winter. After he rapes you, I mean, everyone just acts like nothing happened. Um, pretty much. I think a lot of people when they think of rape, they think of the violent crime of rape, right? But there are different forms.

43:26And essentially, it's taking a person's right away, right to their body, you are you're having sex with a person, I feel like that terminology is so mild compared to what's actually happened. But you're having a sense with the person against their will. And whether that looks like molestation or intercourse or some form of forced oral sex, it's against the other person's will. So sure, my father, it took time. It progressed. I was a child. He had to use different things inside of me to stretch me. And there was a whole process. Was that already? Yes. I didn't have a say I didn't have to say I had to do what he told me to do or there was consequences so now yes by the time he actually penetrated me with his penis I didn't have a say still so then when my mom found out she yeah she continued on she just continued on she didn't witness it so for her it was something that was just told to her.

44:37When it was told to my siblings that my father was keeping me, they already knew what sex was because as part of our education, he had already been molesting me. And I do believe this was his way of starting to groom my sisters. He exposed himself to all of his children and he gave us a demonstration of what penis was and the scrotum and the urethra and where the sperm comes out and the penis going like he gave all of that as as part of our education using himself he also practiced on saturdays and here's the thing he went in and out of different religious belief systems. He chose to, as his form of celebration, on the Sabbath day we rested, but we did it in the nude.

45:31So the entire family walked around the house naked. During this time, no, he was not molesting my sisters, but he was getting every opportunity to molest me. And I believe that he used that as a way to get everyone more comfortable with the idea of being nude around each other. Anytime he delivered his children, everyone had to get naked so we could greet the child in our birthday suit. So, you know, he would come up with these philosophies that seem to make sense, I guess. But looking back, I was like, all of this was just preparing everyone for this very sordid lifestyle that he ended up having.

46:18And your book is phenomenal. And it's so fascinating how you're able to write where I was going through so many emotions. And there's this one part where you talk about how your dad is on the toilet, and he would bring your mother in and go through his philosophies. Was that something that you guys had to do frequently? Yes, way too frequently. When you think about being triggered by smells, my father on the toilet, and my brother and I would talk about it. My brother, he was no longer with us. Him and I were very close. We were only born like a year and a half apart. And we would talk. We would despise when daddy would call us into the bathroom for a lecture while he was sitting on the toilet.

47:09It was just a horrible thing. And sometimes he would have my mom in there for hours, for hours. And we only had one bathroom. This is why we still lived in Patterson in the apartment. So no one could use the bathroom until he finished. So I'm laughing now, but he was very outraged. He was outrageous in a couple of ways, in quite a few ways.

47:47When did you know you were pregnant? I missed two periods. I missed two periods. The first one I didn't really pay much attention to. My periods were, they weren't irregular, but it was not normal for me to miss a period. And now I don't know, maybe I was pregnant then, but just too young to carry the pregnancy. But yeah, after the first month, I missed my period. And then when it didn't come the second month, I said something to my mom. And that's when she thought, she was like, I might be pregnant. and then she went and said something to my dad. What was your mom's reaction? Was it? Indifferent.

48:32Yeah, I would say indifferent. She didn't seem like she was upset or I think by then the abuse and her knowing about it had been gone on for so long. I don't think she would have to expect that I'd get pregnant eventually and I don't know what conversations her and my dad had about it. And what was your dad's reaction? My dad was, he was a little difficult to read. I felt like initially he didn't really believe that I was pregnant. So he didn't have much to say. I remember standing there and my mom told him that she thinks I'm pregnant. And then he was like, oh, well, we'll see. Maybe for him, two missed periods wasn't enough.

49:19But then morning sickness set in and it set in bad. And he completely accepted it. And then the next time I saw that he really had a reaction was because his girlfriend, she was living with us at the time, brought up the possibility of the baby having deformities because we were close relatives. And he had a very strong reaction. He got really angry. He yelled at her and he was like, what the F are you talking about? and she got scared. And then she says she read at some point that if two family members had a child together, then the baby would come out deformed. And aside from just walking away angry, that was it.

50:07Then the rest of my pregnancy, he was a lot milder, I guess. He was still me but by then I was so conditioned to it it was just a regular thing um and I would say he was more gentle but that's how he was with pregnant women when whenever my mom got pregnant for the most part he treated her the best he did not hit her he has beaten her when she was pregnant before And she did lose the pregnancy, but it wasn't a common thing. Like we knew that if you were pregnant, it pretty much protected you from him, his abuse, his physical abuse. So he was, he was very catering. He made sure that I had whatever I wanted to eat.

51:02He, you know, gave me extra favor, I guess you can say. up until I gave birth. When he was so upset about his girlfriend bringing up the potential that your child would have complications, where was that anger coming from? What do you think he was angry about? I think it was something that he didn't think about. I think my father considered himself the authority on everything. So it felt like he didn't think about it. And then for it to be something negative or that he deemed negative, I think that's what angered him. Like he really felt like like a little surprised by this theory because I don't believe he really did any research or even thought about it much.

51:53The fact that I was pregnant or any of the circumstances or it was just like, you know, I was another one of his women that were pregnant, that was pregnant. so when she brought up I think it was a reality check for him and that's why he got angry you said that you're protected from your dad when you're pregnant did the jealousy from your mom get more intense at that point then or even from his girlfriends because of like what is the dynamic when someone is pregnant between the others so my experience with my mom when I was pregnant she was just as caring I guess you can say as my dad I think that she became more maternal right it's kind of kind of weird but she became kinder I don't know if it was pity or she more took on the role as her her daughter is having a child kind of thing but I experienced the most maternal behaviors from my mom while I was pregnant with my first daughter.

53:04Our interaction was definitely like, oh, she was my sister wife. So essentially, it got to the point where it was like, I didn't have a mother, I had this sister wife. And that changed when I got pregnant as far as her behavior. So she was very helpful during prenatal care. And I mean, I was pretty knowledgeable on it, but made sure that I ate and I took vitamins. So she was very maternal actually while I was pregnant. How many kids does he have at this point? We've counted 21 so far. Like today? Yes. Yes. 21. That includes my children. Two of my sisters had one child each by him. And any of the women that he has had, some of them reached out to us as recently as maybe about, well, it was before COVID they reached out.

54:05But there is a very good possibility that there's more. But so far, we have knowledge of he's had 21 children. He was always threatening you that if you didn't comply, he would abuse your sisters. but then you realize that he is already starting that abuse when did you realize so it was before we officially moved into the house I came out of the house we were there working it happened to be one of the times that one of my younger sisters came with us it was my arch nemesis the the third child but my first sister and they were by the truck and I saw him like kiss her on her lips in a very romantic way and he touched her and they both like looked at me and she looked at me as like she got caught like they were caught and my father yelled at me was like what are you doing What are you doing here?

55:09Go back inside. And that's how I knew. That's how I knew. And then after that, the next time was since we only lived in one room. So now, you know, this is all during the moving process. And then we move into the house since we lived in one room. Then one of the times my father sent everybody out and kept that sister there. so then that's how that's how we knew yeah did you and your sister ever talk about it at that time I would not at the time not at the time and the relationship with that sister that was strained because she did not understand that any attention my father was giving me was not attention that I wanted.

55:58So what she saw as me being allowed to stay up late at night, she didn't know that it was because my father was molesting or raping me at the time. So she became very jealous. She didn't understand that my father taking me places with him. She just saw it as Aziza gets to go out and gets to go with daddy all the time, but he was taking me and abusing me in the car. So when she learned that he was molesting me, I think her immature mind thought, well, I want daddy's attention too. So she would do things like get undressed and walk around him and sit on his lap. And I think that was her way of just trying to get attention from him because her understanding was, well, this is how you get attention from daddy using exosexuality.

56:47so then by the time he started abusing her the her relationship with me was more of a now Aziza you're not the only special one so there wasn't a conversation but there were definitely arguments there were definitely arguments and then even as we got older there were more arguments you know she started blaming me for what happened to her she started thinking, oh, well, certain things that happened was because I told my dad to do it to her. And this is because he was telling her this. When my father started molesting more of us, so then he went to the next sister and then the next sister. And he molested five of us in total, four girls that were mothered by my mother and one that has a different mother.

57:42And he would pin us against each other so he would show favoritism cause tension tell each other that i'm only doing this to you because so and so told me to and so he made sure that there was always a divide between us so that we would never get together and rise up against him and this all happened when you all of y 'all were teens yes yes ass. Yeah, we were all teenagers. So you have your first child, your daughter. You guys never take her to the hospital, get a birth certificate. Right. There's no neighbors. So there were neighbors. And my father built privacy walls. So they never saw us. He also had a best friend.

58:32He did befriend an East Orange police officer. That you guys stayed with briefly, right? Right, after the house burned down. But before that happened, this police officer was impressed by the work my father was doing on the house. So that's how they started talking and they became friends. But I always found it interesting that he never questioned the fact that he had all these teenage girls that didn't have boyfriends. And then when I got pregnant, my father did limit my interaction. I couldn't be around people. But if I had to be because we were working or I had to cook for, then I had to wear really oversized clothes to hide the fact that I was pregnant.

59:18So this guy, I don't even I don't think he knew that I was pregnant. But then I have the baby. And then, of course, by the time we have to move in with him, he doesn't question anything. So in my mind, he was not an option to tell. He could not be an ally because he was my father's best friend. So I find out later on through my father's other friend, because this guy, this person actually died recently, passed away. He actually did suspect something and said something to my father's other friend. So I was like, so all this time you suspected. But then all you did was tell some other friend. Right.

1:00:04And that's it. Like it was gossip. Like it was gossip. And I learned also that there was more family. Family that lived in East Orange that had seen me. Seen me pregnant. Suspected. Had conversations. Gossipped. Never said or did anything. So, you know, these things don't happen with people not knowing anything. A lot of people see things and they suspect. They just don't do anything about it. Can you tell us about your dad's obsession with the pure bloodline?

1:00:44As I said before, my father was really into African culture. And that extended back to African royalty and connected to European royalty. So I don't believe he thought about this before I got pregnant. but I think because he was such a researcher, I mean, we had books upon books upon books, like everywhere he was always reading and watching a lot of National Geographic. I think that he made the connection between what he saw as far as like Tutankhamen and Nefertiti and Cleopatra and the fact that they inbred to keep the bloodline pure. He used it to justify what he was doing after I got pregnant.

1:01:33So after my daughter was born, she did not have health defects that we could see, like his girlfriend said. That solidified it. Then his whole philosophy was, yes, he now has to continue to breed me to create the special blue blood children that would repopulate the earth after the human race was destroyed. and that he was ordained by God to do that. I don't know if he believed that himself or it was just an excuse to justify. I don't know. I never had that conversation with him. But that is the philosophy then he continued. And then when he went further on in abusing my sisters and then one sister got pregnant, that was the lecture, constant lecture.

1:02:28like these royal blue blood children are going to repopulate the earth nobody really believed it right by that time it was not my priority to believe it i was desensitized i was trying to make sure he did not touch my daughter i was trying to survive throughout the day from getting punched in the face or you know or worse so he was already threatening our lives if we were to say anything. So it was really about just making it through the day unscathed. Because I know that a lot of people have very complicated emotions and relationships with conceiving a child through rape. Did you ever have those complicated feelings or no?

1:03:18No, no. I saw my baby. That was it. I just saw her I saw love I saw a part of me so no I didn't and sometimes I feel bad because I get a lot of people reaching out to me saying that well how can you look at her and not see the trauma or how do you look at any of your children and not see the trauma and I'm like because I I said I accept them for them as individuals yes you know thankfully I with my first child it was just innate like my love for her is being her mom just came immediately though with my son my third not my third pregnancy it was actually my fourth pregnancy because I lost a child but my third child my father was physically abusive so that whole you being pregnant protected you went out the window with that pregnancy my father beat me he threatened me he I mean one time he beat me so bad that I blacked out and um that that was a very stressful pregnancy why was it just like a time thing that he just decided um I think there were a couple of things that were happening by then he lost his his standing in the music industry in the video directed industry a lot of people in the industry he started being blackballed um he wasn't getting much work so he had his own stresses but then i did read somewhere that you'll find more tension between um a pregnant woman and the father of her child if who she's carrying is a boy because of the extra testosterone apparently the father picks that up and there's just more tension between them.

1:05:11I don't know if that had anything to do with it, but my father's whole attitude while I was pregnant with my son was completely opposite of my other pregnancies. So he delivered all my four children that were fathered by him, three of them at home, and the fourth one actually on a beach in Florida. Yeah, in a tent. So I tried to take an opportunity to get away. I was always looking for some form of crack, you know, in the structure. And my son, who was malnourished, woke up with seizures one morning. I didn't know that that's what they were. I thought he was like dying and coming back to life.

1:05:53My father would not allow me to go outside with him. This was the most I had been isolated. And he also limited me feeding him. I had to finish all of my work in the house before I was allowed to feed my son. Why? This was the new thing that my father adopted. My father would sometimes target one person in the family and make everyone else be against them. So I was the person at the time. So after I had my son, it was like, my sisters didn't really talk to me because if you were caught talking to me, then you'd get in trouble with daddy. So at some point, my son gets very sick. He wakes up this one day, he starts having seizures.

1:06:42My father was not home. My brother convinced my mom to let him take me to the hospital, me and the baby to the hospital. We go and I was given all of these forms that, you know, this is all new to me. But when I noticed that they were asking for my son's father and my father, I decided to take a risk and put my father's name as both of them, hoping that that would be like, you know, hey, I need help. So it did. It raised a red flag, but not enough. My father comes back home, gets into the hospital, curses out the medical unit, all the doctors. He starts telling them how they're trying to experiment on his son, all of this stuff threatens me, threatens the life of my siblings at home.

1:07:33And eventually, social services was called in. They take my children out of my parents' custody, but they leave my other siblings there. So now all of my children are in the hospital with me. At the same time, my father's still threatening me. He's talking to the caseworker as well. So there's just like all of this confusion. Long story short, my kids end up in foster care. It was a blessing in disguise. My father raped me again through all of this. So the whole time, even though now it seems like I have access to somebody that might help. Unfortunately, where we were living, it was very racist and very biased.

1:08:22So I tried to reach out for help the best way that I could without putting my father on. But my caseworker was not receptive. At the end of the day, my father is even more abusive. Now he's beaten me. I got black eyes all the time. At the same time, I had to adhere to these different programs from social services to get my children back. Through that, I get pregnant again. I'm close to now my due date. End up in the hospital because it's mandated by social services that I have to get prenatal care. So this is the first time I've ever gotten prenatal care. However, my father's taken me to all of my visits.

1:09:06He's still in control. The abuse is still going on. And there was one time he sends my sister to go with me and it turns out I'm in labor. I don't know I'm in labor, of course, because I don't have labor. My pains are not bad at all. My sister saw me talking to the nurse and I was getting ready to ask for help, tell her my situation. My father calls and my sister tells my father that I was about to tell the nurse what he'd been doing. so he decides to come and get me and says I'm going to take you away from anybody from any help that you think that you can possibly get I'm taking you to another state and I'm going to deliver the baby there so that's how we ended up in Florida on a campsite and he delivered my child in a tent thank God all of my births were were safe however even though the births were safe So two of my children do have inborn arrows.

1:10:12One had PKU and spinal muscular atrophy and the other one has PKU phenylketonuria which is a metabolic disorder. It's a recessive disorder where both parents have to be the carrier of the gene. So my second daughter had the condition but of course we didn't know it. This condition is screened when you give birth in a hospital. You're given a PKU test and they check the blood to see if you have this disorder. But of course, since she wasn't screened because my father delivered her, she started showing the signs of untreated PKU. We didn't know, of course. She broke out in rashes all over her skin.

1:10:57She had developmental delays. She actually does have some brain damage due to it because she wasn't discovered until she was two years old. But my father said that the reason why she was breaking out is because my milk was poison and my negative energy. So he always blamed me. He always blamed me. And it wasn't until she went into foster care and was tested at the hospital did they find out. So now that when it gets to the point that my last daughter by him, she started losing milestones. So he delivered her, brought us back to Jersey, all of the threats. And by this time, there had been enough things in the family that he made good on some of his threats in the past.

1:11:48So the mental control was still there. I didn't feel it was safe for me to reach out to anybody for help. And eventually, my daughter, my youngest daughter started losing milestones. and she wasn't sitting up she wasn't crawling at the age she should have been and finally got her tested all against you know my father was just of course blaming me again but then it turned out that she had the spinal muscular atrophy and the phenylketonuria so my births were fine yes my births were actually thank god safe and successful no complications but you know my children two of my children did have issues i know that coco passed your other daughter that has pku it does that affect her life today it does she has to stay on a special diet for the rest of her life a low diet so she's primarily vegan and she has to drink a special formula so even though she is not eating protein she still needs some of the nutrients in protein so the formula provides her these other nutrients and because of the brain damage from when she was younger she does have some other challenge you would never know that she has them but there are some things that she has to she copes with specifically emotionally um but she's she's an amazing young lady she's 28 five pregnancies a miscarriage and you gave birth to four beautiful children yeah Coco passed at nine years she was nine yes yeah was that very difficult was it oh my gosh and the anniversary of her death is coming up on October 17th yeah but I mean she was a blessing in my life I mean she was a blessing in all of our lives because she really taught us empathy and I think an appreciation for life and our abilities because she was disabled and she depended on everyone else to help her.

1:14:11I did everything I could to give her the best quality life as possible. So we drunk her everywhere. We did not go to the movies without my baby. But so it was. And I wasn't even home. I wasn't even home. I had decided to have a day trip with my sisters. We went to great adventure. She was left home with my mom and her nurse. And I got a call that she wasn't breathing. So it was due to complications to her spinal muscular atrophy. However, you know, I feel like I don't have closure on that. because the medical examiner refused to do an autopsy. They just labeled her as it was because of her condition.

1:15:16But I think the nurse was negligent. Because when I came home, her food was wasted all over the place. And I was on the phone at the time. Her and the nurse and my mom were panicking. And the nurse didn't know how to open the oxygen tank. And this was after I spent the day before with her making sure she knew everything. So I'm like, I don't know what happened. And the nursing agency took all of the notes. Like there was just a lot of questionable things. So I feel like I'm still working on having a sense of closure for that because I don't think, I think that she wouldn't still be here with us.

1:15:59The doctors, I feel like every couple of years they gave me a new date. They didn't think she was going to live past two years old. Then two year old birthday, they told me she wasn't going to live past five. So it was progressing. She made it all the way to nine, which I'm thankful for. but I think she would have made it a little longer you know had had I stayed home that day and so I carry a little guilt about that what was her favorite thing to do watch scary movies if you can believe it yeah she loved to watch horror movies this one movie specifically called The Messenger and she would actually be scared like you should see it in her face she'd be scared but she loved to watch it that and justin bieber she loved justin bieber yeah like join the club but um yeah that was pretty much and of course be here with mom i was her favorite person i was her favorite person was she always like the baby of the family she was but she acted like she was the oldest she loved to give orders yeah she definitely We love to give orders.

1:17:10And she just, she expected everyone to be at her beck and call. I love that. So, yeah. Yeah. She was the sweetest thing. Oh, my gosh. What is your relationship like with your children? Intense. I didn't say that. It's intense. It's loving, though. There's so much love between us. When we're all together, it's just so much fun. And I have taught my kids to speak open with me. So communication is a huge thing. We have family meetings. I love that. Go over what people's goals are, what are they going to achieve in the next year, week, what their plans are for certain things. So I think all of that really contributes to our relationship.

1:17:58and um because i know because my parents were so silencing like we didn't have a voice in my house it was more like shut up and listen so i i have definitely used my parents as what not to do in raising children so i allow my kids to oh my gosh sometimes even to a fault challenge me like if they disagree with something they do they can like ask me a question about it sometimes it goes on and on and on and on but sometimes I feel like they're just a little kid saying but why but why but why but you know they're grown um or even throughout their teenage years but but I think that that has contributed to how open and how close we are as a family and we do We just have a lot of fun.

1:18:50Like game nights are the best. Cooking is the best. Like it's just so much fun when we all get together. Watching movies, you know, doing things outside of the house. So they were taken to foster care. And then how did you get them back? A lot of work. A lot of work. Essentially my kids being taken away from me was the push that I needed to then really get away from my father. because I knew I could not bring them back to our life. So my children were separated in foster care for about a year and a half. After my case was moved from Monmouth County, which is where I had the very racist experience, to Essex County, and I got a caseworker who was compassionate, they decided to work towards reunification.

1:19:40And part of that was to find family to be my children's foster parents. So everything came full circle. My maternal grandmother and my aunt was their foster parents. So they actually ended up having their latter part of their foster care living in the house that I grew up in. It was so surreal. And that's how I reconnected with that family as well. I was able to visit them. It took some time, but I eventually was able to visit them on the weekends. We rebonded then. And then they each came home a month apart. through that you know the whole process with social services they have to do home visits and check to make sure that I'm taking them to their doctor's visits and things like that so then finally 10 days before they went up for adoption is when I got custody full custody back for them I felt like that I finally did it now it was through all of that process is when I was able to completely liberate myself from my father.

1:20:55And that was because through the process of working with social services, I learned that I was being abused. I learned what abuse was. I learned what pedophilia was, domestic violence. These were all ideas that I had never considered. It was just my life. So now learning about it and learning that what was happening to me was not supposed to happen started to empower me and I began to look for more ways to get away from him and I finally built up the courage to tell someone who he respected and that person happened to have some kind of connection with law enforcement ended up taking my mom to report domestic violence and got a restraining order against my father.

1:21:45So now that process started. I was able to get my children back. A couple of years after that, my sisters and I went and reported my father to the police. Is it a weird feeling when people reference him as your father? Like, do you prefer if people call him by his name? No. And it's something that's kind of a topic that gets questioned, And me specifically, because I do still refer to him as my father. I mean, I think it's your choice. Right. I just want to respect your choice. Right. I agree. But it's intentional. It is intentional because if I called him, I've heard survivors call their abuser, you know, a sperm donor.

1:22:29Or especially if it's a parent, they'll give them these other titles. But for me, especially because of the work that I do, I feel that it's important to recognize what his role was supposed to be. And he was supposed to protect me. He was supposed to take advantage of his role. So, yes, I do refer to him still as my father because, one, that's what he is. And two, it highlights the severity of his actions, how heinous that his the things that he did was because he was the person that not only contributed to me being here, but he was given the responsibility of protecting me and he completely exploited it.

1:23:13Tell us about the day you leave. Escape. Right. Yeah, I think. Yeah, the day that I escape. so it was triggered now here I am all of these ideas all these things happening in my head already told this person this other person who actually was his friend or somebody that he really respected and revered and was the first person he allowed me to speak to outside of his presence or anyone else's presence so of course that opportunity came I took it I begged this guy I said please do not tell him if there is a way that you can help us without telling him please you know can you do it this is all happening with like in the space of a week my father was around my younger sister and he was about to take her into the room to rape her she was pregnant with his child already and something just flipped in me between the information between I had already started taking steps to get us away.

1:24:21All of these things just stirred something in me and I went off. I just exploded on him. I called him all kinds of names, called him an asshole. And I also looked at my mom and cause she was there and I was like, and how could you have let this go on all of this time? You're no better than him. And I just went off and then I took my sister into the bedroom and lock the door and by the next morning my dad was gone and then that's when the restraining order was put in and so he did not respond because he was in shock and I have learned now in my studies that this can happen you'll have somebody that has been abused for so long that essentially they just break and then because the abuser is so used to them being compliant and submissive when they see them now get to a point where they are empowered or they're challenging their authority they're in shock so that's that's what happened and my father he just sat down he just sat down he said nothing he looked at my mom my mom was dumbstruck I don't know what conversation they had after I took my sister and locked the room door but I know that that was the last time I saw him once.

1:25:40I saw him in public in Jersey City. And then the next time I saw him was when I was testifying against him in court. How did your kids find out who their biological father was? My oldest daughter was five. She was raised calling my father daddy. So she knew that was his father, her father, but she didn't know I was her sister. so now when she went into foster care she was getting these mixed messages the social worker the case worker told her that who she was calling daddy was really her grandfather still no information on me then when she got to my grandmother's house my grandmother reiterated doubled down on it this was her grandfather this was not her father when I got her back by the time I got her back she was nine years old she kept asking me she wanted to know the story I didn't feel that she was mature enough to really handle so I told her that I would tell her when she was a little older she accepted it she still kind of bugged me every now and then she was like oh mommy well I suspect this and I suspect that I'm like I'm neither confirming nor deny that happened when she was 13 and she came and asked me again she was like well am I old enough now and I told her I told her she said that she knew it so I explained to her that the entire dynamic yes who she now knows as her grandfather is also her father and is also my father and that we were sisters and her words out of her mouth literally was I knew it so she had already put pieces together.

1:27:24I told her at that time, I still waited to tell my other children. My daughter and I, we spoke about it. Clearly she was angry, but she wasn't physically upset, I guess, because it more felt like a confirmation of what she had already suspected. And she had come to terms with certain things by that time. But when I told my other children, they were upset. And the reason why I told them was because it was after Coco died, created a lot of turmoil between me and my sisters. And by that time, so many other things had happened. Like my sisters slept with my, then at that, by that time he was my ex-husband.

1:28:11So, you know, our relationship was already strained. Some of the negative seeds my dad planted had kind of come out, sprouted out. So there was just a lot going on by that time. And my kids didn't understand why. They didn't understand why there was so much arguing and so much blame and fingers being pointed. So I felt like it was time to tell them. My daughter, Moncho, my second daughter, she got very emotional. um my son he didn't really say anything and he learned about it at the youngest age I believe he was only nine at the time he was either no he couldn't have been nine because Coco died so he had to be about 11 and he just internalized he internalized we've spoken about it over time Like I said, my door is open for my kids to ask me any questions, any information.

1:29:11So they know a lot of the details. They know the emotional impacts. They understand the trauma through the work that we do with my organization. Of course, they are like the number one people to go to about that. They're experts on that. And it just required then for us to, we had to intentionally heal because the reality of it and how it has affected our lives, it's a lot. It's a lot to deal with. how has it impacted their lives in just in society because i do think there is there's a lot of stigma and shame that could come i guess depending on the types of communities of relationships that involve incest what has been their impact their believe it or not their friends have been really supportive yeah their friends have been really supportive once their friends knew and And their friends, my daughter, my oldest daughter started telling her friends before I became public about it.

1:30:19So she had the support from them. My son, I am hearing stuff now. We do do family therapy. And he'll come up with some form, like some kind of story or experience where a girl, because I'm public and knows that he's a result of incest, told him that she wouldn't date him because of that. But he has no problem getting girls. So he's like, that's like, went right over his head. He was like, oh, well, you're lost. So they're all very confident in their position. My second daughter, she is very much interested in the topic and incest as it's practiced in different cultures. And she does talk to me about it.

1:31:09So she's more curious in that way. But none of them have experienced, well, except for this one incident from my son with this girl. They have not experienced any serious blowback. My oldest daughter will catch some comments under my videos. And she will go in. You tell us the comment. We will also go in. She will go in on people. So their confidence levels. and they're they're very secure within themselves they're very secure within themselves they don't feel any form of shame because of it um they're just they're just proud like they are who they are they're talented they're communicative they are witty as hell their sense of humors are crazy but um yeah they don't feel any form of shame or or shyness because of it you end up escaping and then a few years later you guys turn your dad in right and then there's a whole trial that you have to testify in what was that like it was nerve-wracking yeah it was it was scary it was scary because i knew i would have to see him again um it was nerve-wracking because the judicial system is not far from perfect.

1:32:35Oh my gosh, it's so far from perfect. My experience with the detective was scary. When we first reported and I had to give him my account, it was scary. And then when we got to the stage that we were, the prosecutor, judges were being assigned to the case. Some of them was like, well, they, why did they wait so long? And incest is legal in New Jersey. So, you know, so we got a lot of that. It was like, oh, we got to wait for another judge because we can't have a judge that has bias. So that process was strenuous. But our pride, the prosecutor, she was committed. She was dedicated. We had to prove a lot.

1:33:25I had to prove that my father was my father. I had to prove that my father was also my kid's father. I had to prove that he threatened my life. And then because incest is legal in New Jersey, specifically, after you turn 18, you're considered consenting adult. The only way he could be charged with him abusing me after I turned 18 was if it was under violent circumstances. So he would have to be now violently raping me for him to be charged with any form of abuse. So that was just a lot. At the same time, I learned a lot. I learned a lot about the system. I learned a lot about the judicial system.

1:34:08So I'm grateful for that because now I am working to strengthen it to make it easier for other victims and survivors to report. But the day that I had to testify in front of him, here I am thinking, oh, I'm this far on my healing journey. I'm confident. I have my kids back. I'm working. I'm getting an education. I was putting myself through college. As soon as I saw him, all of that disappeared. How old were you? By then I had to be 35. Yeah, 34, 35. I reverted right back to the little girl that I was afraid of him.

1:35:04But I collected myself, you know, but I became very self-conscious of my body. I don't think that I had fully come to term with the idea that what happened to me was not my fault. Me being in his presence, I started looking at myself to make sure I didn't do anything that would, you know, trigger him or arouse him in any way. But I took audit of myself. After I did the, we had a preliminary testifying. It wasn't in front of a jury. It was only in front of the lawyers and the judge. So then the judge can decide which questions are allowed and what shouldn't be allowed. And after I finished, I collected myself, I was able to like internalize, do a lot of introspection and get myself ready for the actual, my actual testimony.

1:36:03So, and even that, that was strained because of course the defense attorney Yes, ask questions. What is the cross-examination like? It makes you feel so invalidated because they're really trying hard to make it look like that you're either lying or you asked for it or why didn't you tell? So there were things that I was testifying that only my father knew about because he was the only person in the room other than myself. And she challenged every one of those things. She? Yeah, yes. Yes, he had a female defense attorney. I mean, you know, that was strategy. And I heard that he went through two other lawyers.

1:36:48Like, two other lawyers, they started the process. Once they started hearing what the charges was and started hearing, well, started reading the reports that me and my sisters gave to the detective, they decided they couldn't continue, represented him. but um he did find someone that represented him and it was really strange sometimes in court because I saw him trying to do the seductive thing that I seen him do with other women like he'd get really close and whispering in her ear and like giving her little touches and stuff and I was like this is so creepy this is so creepy like this is his attorney but she she did her job she did her job another part that was difficult was seeing some of the jury members look like they didn't believe me that was tough there was this one woman specifically every time I described something she rolled her eyes yeah it was so I mean you know but I was determined to have him be held accountable.

1:37:59So I powered through. The fear was there, but I did it because it really, it needed to be done. He needed to be held accountable. So during this trial, your mom receives no charges, likely because she divorced him and was willing to testify against him? I don't think she even divorced him yet by then. It was because she was still married to him. and she waived her whatever right that is for a spouse to not testify against for a married person to not testify against their spouse so in exchange for her right waving that right um and she she did she testified against him her testifying was there some sort of closure did you feel like she was finally coming around or did you feel like it was advantageous to her situation yeah no um it was definitely advantageous for her you know and I love my mom I have to love her from afar now I cannot be around her she has not healed enough to for us to interact especially how she feels or how she responds to my children that started to kind of surface again even after we got away from my dad she was treating my children a lot differently from her other grandchildren I believe her reasons for testifying was well there was a lot of selfishness involved I think that she was protecting herself but anybody would do that I am pretty much 100 % sure of that is because when the day for his sentencing for the crimes he committed against me my mom went on a cruise she was not there to support on a cruise yeah she went on a cruise and I was like mommy are you serious so I just think there is still a lot of guilt that she has not dealt with and this is her way by just not dealing with it to avoid it so my relationship with her is kind of non-existent I see her every now and then I still communicate with her cordially but as far as being in a real relationship with her she's just not at the place she's not the place there's a lot of things that I think that she has to come to terms with take responsibility for that she just hasn't yet do you think she should have been charged

1:40:34that's very hard that is a very hard question I think I have different reasons for why I would say yes but I also have different reasons for why I would say no my reasons why I would say yes is because at the time New Jersey law did not hold someone who witnessed abuse and did not reported accountable, right? That has changed. I believe 2019 is when now they changed it. That has a negative impact on people reporting. As I said before, I found out later on, there was a lot of people that suspected, saw things and didn't report, but they could not have been held accountable legally at the time. So I do think that, yes, she should have been held accountable.

1:41:22one as an example to other people like if you see something you suspect something you should say something I think that it would have contributed to the efficacy of the system in general in protecting children and protecting abused people at the same time I would not want her to be charged because she was an abused woman and she was severely abused my father severely abused her And I don't think that there are enough things in place to manage and support abused women, especially women that are abused in that way and have children that have been abused. So, you know, her life was at risk. She feared for her life.

1:42:10Yes, because I know her and I was there and I witnessed and was on the receiving end of her selfishness. I could say, well, no, she should have been held accountable. But at the same time, as a professional, someone in this field, I think that she should have been shown grace. and if anything, been assigned some kind of counseling and support services so that she can make better decisions going forward. You started getting molested when you were eight. You finally testify when you're 35. How much of an impact do you think being Black in America played in that? A lot. I mean, one, my father used that, right?

1:43:02He used that to keep us oppressed. It's something to be oppressed within a system of oppression. So he used the fact that we were black and people on the outside, the things that are put in a position to supposedly protect everyone is not going to protect us because we're black. so there was the fear of well I'm being abused by my father that's a devil that I know but then if I try to get away from him then there's this whole other devil that I don't know that will abuse me as well so he definitely used that he educated his family on the social issues that black people face. That created a fear of the outside world.

1:43:53It definitely did in me. I know it did in my mom. We felt like we could not reach out for help. Then there is the gender dynamics and gender biases. My father had friends. He had a friend that was a police officer, but that was his friend. And if, I mean, definitely for me, well, if my father is doing this, and this is how my father treats women and this is how I was raised this is how women are supposed to be treated every man is treating is treating women like this I also heard his conversations in the music industry with all of his celebrity friends and music professional how they really dehumanize women and over sexualized and taken advantage of you know video girls and so all of those things All of these social issues that we are facing today definitely has a deep impact on the smaller social systems, which are families.

1:44:56And I think abusers definitely take advantage of that. And I know before Essex County, you had really bad experiences talking to people to try and get help. That was because you were black. Is that something you think has been changing or is that something that's still? We were in Monmouth County. I've only been there to go to the beach. So I don't know what the social systems are like personally. However, I have had women reach out to me and said it's the same. And they've shared their experiences with the systems down there, specifically dealing with domestic violence. They're like, look, if you are black, if you are a black woman, do not move to Monmouth County.

1:45:41Now, that could be taken as hearsay, but that's their experiences that they've taken with me. So I don't know. I don't think it's changed very much. But I do think some of that could be lack of education, meaning a lack of education for the social workers and the law enforcement. And because racism is it's so ingrained in our society that I think even those people that who aren't innately racist, because they are functioning within a racist system, they automatically are going to take advantage of the power that racism gives them. So I think a lot of those things still exist. And that could just take some education and some empathy in order for it to change.

1:46:25being a victim of sex crimes in america is already difficult do you think being a victim who is also a person of color does that add an extra level of difficulty and getting your voice heard in authorities taking you seriously yes definitely and i think it because because it intersects with how being a person of color how people of color are treated within the medical system and within law enforcement. So because black women specifically, our levels of, we're expected to have a higher tolerance for pain. Yeah, that is. Right. So you have a woman who has experienced domestic violence. Her injuries just aren't taken as seriously just because of that alone.

1:47:17So because the abuse intersects with all of these other things and then with law enforcement, if they're already discriminating against people of color because we have been labeled as violent, right, then it's not so much of a big deal. So all of those things play a role. And that's why even when I do my speaking engagements, I have to bring up the cultural sensitivities that vary between different ethnicities and different races and different backgrounds. even when you're dealing with a survivor they may have things within their culture their religion that will prevent them from addressing certain things or saying certain things or or being forthcoming with the information and um i think that the people that work work within the systems that are supposed to help support and protect needs to be educated on all of these little elements and nuances.

1:48:21Did you feel like you got support during testifying and during the trial? Yes, definitely. Okay, good. Oh my gosh. Lisa Scuteri, I tout her. Listen, she, that prosecutor from Passaic County, but she was the assistant prosecutor. She was absolutely amazing. That whole prosecutor's office, they were just, they were so supportive. And he was sentenced to 90 years 90 years total have you gone to visit him no but I plan to I started the process by reaching out to some of his family his sister and his brother I was told that his brother is the only person on his list apparently he has to create a list to decide who can come and visit him and I would have to go through his brother to get me on the list.

1:49:16So that's a work in process, but I'm going to do it. And I'm going to do it for two reasons. And it's something, because the second reason I really just came to the conclusion of. So the first reason is, one, I want to pick his brain. I want to get as much information as far as his thinking. Go more in depth, like ask him questions if he had been abused so I can get a clear answer, not have to speculate. As far as his different stages of when he decided to escalate from molestation to rape, how did he come up with these philosophies and these theories? I'd like to know if he is going to tell the truth if he's grown, if he's changed and possibly get some information that would help to bolster my work and create better programs that takes into account how abusers think and what methods of operation that they use to groom and to victimize people and then the second reason which is something that through my own introspection I've kind of come up with more recently, is that I really am curious to see how I would respond to him in that moment.

1:50:39Kind of looking back on the time that I saw him after years when I testified against him and seeing how I did not anticipate how I would respond, I would like to feel an experience based on who I am now, where I have grown to, my life experiences. How would I respond being in his presence? Will there still be a little bit of fear there? Would I trust myself in the moment? am I going to you know go blank on my questions or can I really come go see him do what I need to do and then move on so that yeah I definitely plan to go see him I hope I hope he doesn't die in prison yet before I get that opportunity is there any part of you that's scared of maybe just not even scared of him, but maybe like the scared comes from the idea of being triggered back into a trauma scene?

1:51:51Not that so much. One thing I do know for a fact is that I don't know everything. So I think I would be just more afraid, if you want to call it that, of just the unknown, of something that I didn't anticipate. I mean, even now, I don't think I have been in enough social situations to tell you for a fact that everything that I've been through would not have an impact on how I respond in that specific social situation. I know that there's still a lot of things undiscovered by me just because I've not been under those circumstances to discover it. And I think that this would be one of them. And I'm curious to see.

1:52:32Like I've been ghosted for the first time. Oh, you have been ghosted me very recently and I've only heard of it. Yeah. But I was like, damn, this shit hurts. That's crazy they would ghost you. How can somebody do this to somebody? You know, so it's kind of like that. It's like I just know there are certain things. And I have such a fervor for experiences in life. Not that much. Not negative ones. But I'm right. Not that one. But yeah, I'm really curious on how I would respond. Like, am I as strong as I think I am kind of thing? You know, so that and that's that's a new that's a new reason. I have decided that I want to see my father in prison since he was sentenced.

1:53:24Because even at his sentencing, he was still denying things. He was still denying it. He kept saying, Aziza, you know the truth. And I'm like, yeah, and that's why you're here. Nineteen years. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm just like, okay, so I would like an update. What are your feelings towards your father? Well, one, I'm very disappointed in him. I don't know if that is strong enough, but he could have been so much. and I don't discount his potential, his creativity. I know I have gotten a lot of my kind of just do it perspective from him. He was successful in his craft and his business up to a point.

1:54:15I think his ego got the best of him and that kind of messed things up, but he was doing very good things. I am saddened that he took his life and made these decisions when he could have made different decisions and possibly helped and inspired a lot of people. So I think that's like a complete waste. Other than that, I feel like emotionally, I don't feel any attachment to him emotionally. I feel very indifferent. He's like another human, you know. That's pretty much it. that's pretty much it i mean no one would blame you if you had strong feelings of hatred but it seems like you don't have that um i don't i don't i think i think hate takes up a lot of energy one now i can't say that that's my conscious reason for not hating him i did have my rage but But it was such a, a lot of it happened during the abuse.

1:55:22There were times I plotted killing my father. With a hammer, right? Yeah, once with a hammer, another time with a pillow. He was very sick. That's just how angry I was. And that's how much I wanted what he was doing to me to stop. I was literally thinking of committing murder. Even beyond that, trying to poison his food. So I think that this is the thing with long-term abuse. You go through all of those things at different stages, you know, so I experienced all that. So by the time I came to the end of it, so much of it was about my children creating a life for them, healing myself, trying to enjoy life because I spent so much of it suffering.

1:56:08And any anger that I had for him just wasn't that important anymore. and that's pretty much where where I've been and how it has been it's just not important for me to be angry at him but I did experience the anger at different times I know it probably plateaued that time that I cursed him out because there was so much stuff just came out you know in my head and I think if I was a little more out of my mind at the time I probably would have physically attacked him but since then yeah no I don't have any like moments of anger every now and then when I have challenges with my kids I think maybe I do get a little that would be the only thing because sometimes Though I don't want to dwell on the Kudda, shirra, wouldas.

1:57:05I do I have to acknowledge it's hard not to acknowledge that my daughter would not have PKU had she not been born as a result of of this situation that my daughter who passed away would didn't have SMA because of it and any challenges that my kids have the fact shoot the fact that they don't have a father, you know, and that they have to deal with everything that comes along with this situation. Yeah, that pisses me off sometimes. But it's not like a personal direct anger towards him. It's more just about the situation. And I do know that if I was to dwell on it, I would stay, I would probably be miserable.

1:57:53Because there's nothing I can do to change it at this point. So I just do what I can do to change it or stop it from happening to other people. What is your relationship like with your siblings, specifically your sisters who also were abused? So right now I'm only in communication with one. They do blame me. Yeah, they do blame me. Blame you for what? I orchestrated for us to have a group therapy session, and I learned within that session that they felt that had I fought my father harder, then they would not have been abused. So they held me responsible. And the other was that my father did tell them or had started this narrative that he was abusing them because I told him to.

1:58:49So they was carrying that. And that has just, that affected our relationship going forward. And it got to the point that, you know, we don't really speak. One sister I am still in communication with. We actually have, you know, we're pretty much in touch. We go out, we hang out, we do things, we talk on the phone. So, yeah, but, yeah, that's what it is. And then I have some of my little, you know, little siblings that I speak to who have different moms. Because even that, my relationship or our relationship with our mom also had an impact on our relationship with each other. What are your kids' relationships with your sister's kids that were by your father?

1:59:43Because they're half siblings but also cousins. Yes. Are they close? Do they have a relationship? There's six of them, right? So I have four and two of my sisters each have one. One is completely disabled. He doesn't communicate. He has some very rare genetic disorder. So he communicated with us and we were very close at one point. He even lived with us. But since the communication between my sister and I, his mom deteriorated now, I never, We never see him. So they don't communicate. And then my niece, she is involved. I would say they definitely have more sibling rivalries than like cousins.

2:00:30So they did every now and then they're arguing and they're best of friends and they're arguing and they're best of friends. But, you know, like she volunteers with the organization and everything. So we're cool. I know like there's a lot more information but I just need one little snippet of your sister slept with your ex-husband. What? Yes. Which one? It was two of them. It was two of them. And I do talk it up to one we did not know what a healthy relationship was. You know then there is the fact that we was raised in a polygamous lifestyle. child um yes my father was helping us and everything was done against our will but we had been conditioned to being with the same man that's how I rationalize it however there had been enough time passed and I felt that we built built up a good relationship with each other I also had the conversation with them like okay guys we can't do this we can't do it my man is my man your man is your men.

2:01:38You know, we laid all of that stuff out. Then one day, my younger sister, she was actually the one that was a baby when I first started being molested. She comes to me crying, saying how I have the perfect life. Now, my husband and I, you know, we had been together. I think I was pregnant at that time. Yeah, I was pregnant with my youngest son. She's crying how I have the perfect life and and blah, blah, blah, and she wants my life, and so on and so forth. My baby was five months old, and my husband confessed that he had been having an affair with that sister before we even got married, started before we even got married.

2:02:19Then three years later, I found out that my other sister also had an affair with him, and the reason why it came out was because the first sister was suspecting the other sister, and they started arguing about it and then that's why my husband my ex-husband decided to confess so yeah it was still a lot of drama I was like guys can we just there was a lot of healing that needed to be done I understand that um that's most of why I forgave them um I mean I'm no clearly I'm no longer with him I've not been with him for a while and I definitely felt that my relationship with my sisters was more important to maintain I did I was not ready to end my relationship with them over a man who was not going to be around anymore so you mentioned in an article that when you go out with your kids sometimes people ask you as a joke are you guys siblings yes and you guys have a good little giggle about it what do you guys answer what is the response well the response is no that's these are my kids like this is my mom or my daughter my daughter is usually the one that responds at least my oldest she says no that's my mom but we do we always have we look at each other like they only knew if they only knew i just want to say after this i don't know how many hours episode i just want to say you are one of the best mother i like when you walk in it's like a bubble of compassion that you walk in with i don't even know how to describe it i just feel very safe around you really and i usually get anxious no i don't even know how to put in towards your energy it's your energy is crazy wow yeah i keep it oh my gosh and i think i mean i can only imagine that your kids are amazing okay so they're all in their 20s now my oldest is 31 what are you guys what are your kids doing what are you focused on so I'm focused on Precious Little Ladies Incorporated our mission is to end sexual abuse gender based violence and incestuous abuse all of my kids are involved in that they are all involved in that some of them it's like an event basis but others just on a daily basis my oldest is the most involved she loves to sing and write I think she's still trying to find what she wants to do in life so you know but that's up to her she's definitely a creative but she's also an introvert so and then Monchelle my second daughter she also loves to write so I guess they all took after their mom that they they love to write she also helps with the organization and then my son Aloba he is a dancer that's mr asap rocky number two i don't really see it i don't see no i don't see the resemblance that could just be because he came for me i don't know but i don't see the resemblance i see but yeah everybody says everybody says and he definitely uses it but he dances um and and i'm learning that he actually has a pretty good sitting singing voice sometimes him and Arish my oldest will have these jam sessions and he's harmonizing and stuff but he wants to get into acting modeling that kind of thing right now he just has you know a job to pay the bills and then my youngest who is my son for my ex-husband he um and it's funny like his role in all of this he's so kind of back and forth but you would never know one that they had different fathers because they're just like they're just siblings all the way so there is no oh you're a half sibling or anything like that uh he is very active in his he's about to go to college actually but everyone is just very creative they're just very creative and then they support me which is a blessing i did not go out in public with my story without speaking to them about it first i do check-ins you know with them make sure that they're okay with this right now we are working on a larger project more like documentary ish and loba is a natural at it he definitely loves the camera my site he definitely loves the camera um what else i mean there's so there's a lot going on so you wrote your first book well volume one and volume two and it's sold out the print copies on Amazon which is crazy and it's something that does that every now and then and then it's on the Amazon top best sellers list but it's available on the Kindle version and on your website the physical copy anytime it's sold out on Amazon or not you can just go to my website azizakabibi.com to get it I also have a podcast that chronicles the journey of me writing my book because that has its own drama.

2:08:02Like one of my sisters is the one who started designing the book cover. Everybody agreed. Some people chose their pseudonames and then suddenly everybody was against it. So I talk about things like that through the process. I also go into depth on what testifying against my father was like. So there's that. It's called Self-Published. So you can find it anywhere. Gosh. And then Precious Little Ladies. It's preciouslittleladies.org. So there's a lot of information on prevention. And then Aziza's Law. So as I talked about incest being legal in New Jersey, I'm working to change that. So what is the opposition of not making it illegal?

2:08:51that's a very good question i don't understand yeah some some people believe some legislators believe that it may infringe on certain religious belief systems but new jersey is only one of two states more 48 states it's illegal across the board so i'm like what what's going on in new Jersey. Yeah. Right. That's what a lot of people asked. I have yet to find out, but so far it's been echoing that it could infringe on some religious belief systems, but I'm pushing anyway. So trying to get as many people to reach out to their legislators. And even if you don't live in the state sign our petition on change.org because all of that having the public encourage legislators that this needs to be criminalized then will i'm i hope would push them to do so and there's so much information in your book that we didn't even cover today you have your own youtube channel you have TikTok yes I do see I go where eyes are it's like you know I knew young people who needed to hear my message and and feel um feel like they weren't alone they were on TikTok so I went to TikTok and how has that been like do you like it I do oh I enjoy TikTok I enjoy TikTok it's something because people tend to compare TikTok to Instagram because they say Instagram you have to be like rich and bougie and then tiktok you can go on there with your bonnet kind of thing so but we'll see that's where i do my my cooking live streams with my kids on tiktok yeah it's fun yeah and you're working on a second book yes i am i am working on i guess you can call it a self-help book it's more like a self-reflection it's called the hump and i use my life experiences as an anecdote on different ways people can get over their hump and get as far along on their healing journey as possible.

2:11:05But not just dealing with abuse. It could be any kind of life challenges, whether it be the loss of a job or the loss of a child or a loved one, just really getting over the hump to then find your happiness and thrive. Wow. Wow. That's beautiful. I would listen to a self-help book from you any day. I mean, just. And that's the thing people have been asking about Unashamed making an audio book. I started recording it. And your voice is good for an audio book. Yeah, thank you. That's perfect, actually. So, yeah. I'm looking to get that done by the beginning of next year. Okay. Poetry? Oh, yes. What's going on there?

2:11:47Yeah. So, I am. My poetry, man. But so when I, well, one, I love words. I just love words. Like you can't put a word in front. I have read the covers of all of these as we've been talking. But when I get in a really emotional state, like I'm a Virgo. So I have pretty good control over my emotions. But there are some times they get overwhelming. And that usually comes out in the form of poetry. I use it as an outlet. So anything from like heartbreak. I mean, of course, when Coco passed away, oh my gosh, I was writing nonstop. But a lot of challenges that I've had in relationships. Yes, I've already wrote a poem about being ghosted.

2:12:32But I am going to publish it as a print book, an audio book, and also an album. Oh, that's so interesting. I love that idea. Thank you. Yes. Oh my gosh. Okay, so lots of exciting things. we're going to be waiting. We're going to be asking when they're coming. So just watch out. I will let you know. I'll keep you updated. Thank you for having me. It's been a pleasure. And I...