Karen Read’s First Exclusive Interview After MURDER ACQUITTAL - What REALLY Happened At 34 Fairview

33:46Even if you're able to inadvertently make a phone call, they're all doing it in the middle of the night. All of them. Higgins is saying he made a butt dial. Brian Albert is saying it was a butt dial.

33:58Karen Read:Well, it's kind of like a butt dial. I believe I used the word butt dials. well i used a phrase that people commonly used as a butt dial not just a butt dial but a butt a butt answer and a butt hang up yeah on both ends so you're saying you accidentally called him he accidentally answered he accidentally hung up and then you accidentally hung up jen mccabe said the slew of phone calls to john at quarter of one between 12 30 and one o 'clock she had over a dozen phone calls to John. She's claiming those were all butt dials. What are the chances these people who were together all night are engaging in, if you count them, somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 butt phone actions, answering, dialing, hanging up.

34:53They appear, they meaning the Alberts, McCabes, and Higgins, appear to have kept it simple and agreed to several mantras and just those mantras. One of them was butt dials and the other, I don't recall or not that I recall.

35:17Karen Read:I don't remember. I don't recall. I don't remember. I don't know. I don't recall my interview. I don't recall. I do not recall. I don't recall. I don't remember. I don't remember if I was a time. If they were coached, it was smart. Keep it simple. Because when they start to add details to their renditions of what happened that night, they're completely inconsistent. um brian brian higgins uh said his jeep was parked in front of the house he backed it up he had a plow he went into great detail and he um he he jokingly plowed some snow for brian and nicole to pull in and then matt and jen and then he veed out and pulled in front of the house by the mailbox yet jen mccabe didn't see the car and she was apparently on night watch at the front door and never saw a Jeep, a Jeep with a plow, which is something memorable.

36:16Ryan Nagel, Ricky D 'Antonio, and Heather Maxson were behind me. They never saw the Jeep. So my point being their group thought is simple. But as soon as you require details from these people, their stories are all over the place.

36:32Karen Read:Do you think Chloe, the Alberts German Shepherd, is still alive? This is the question I get asked the most, is what happened to the dog. And I realize I do not have a dog. I realize this is where society is, is we, a lot of us love dogs more than we love people or just as much. But I get this question constantly. I have no idea what happened to Chloe. Based on what I know, I would guess the dog is dead. I don't believe it's the dog they claim it is up in New Hampshire. We asked for proof. and all they gave was animal control vaccination records that I can literally go to animal control and get a copy of the vaccination records.

37:17And this woman in New Hampshire, who we have no address, no phone number for, she's claiming this is the dog, this is his birthday and this is his vaccination. Well, anybody can get that.

37:28Karen Read:At what point in the investigation did you feel like, okay, this is not an investigation into a tragic accident? I'm being framed. Is there a moment, a specific moment, it hits you? So they had my phone in my car within a half hour of coming to my parents' house. So they left my parents at 4.15 on January 29th. They took my phone and they took the car. I was hoping desperately, this is a case of they've got the wrong guy. I'm arrested on February 1st and then I'm arraigned the next morning. I hadn't met in person David Yannetti, but I had already engaged with him on January 29th. He comes to the holding cell at the courthouse in Stoughton, and he has one copy of the police report that Michael Proctor authored.

38:18He's holding the police report. Now, they're already calling my case at 9 a.m. It's like 9 10, and I don't know what I'm walking into. I don't know what they have against me. I don't know anything. David is holding the police report and we're reading it together. They only gave him one copy. So his hands between the bars, I'm leaning in and we're reading it quick. I don't know how I had the focus to even comprehend and read at that moment. It was like just another fight or flight that focus, Karen, this is about to be read in front of a courtroom filled with people. The first thing that stood out to me was it said they arrived at my parents' house, Proctor and Buknik, arrived at my parents' house at 4.30 p.m.

39:00and left at 5.30 p.m. And I knew right away that was wrong. I've lived in New England most of my life. 5.30 in the middle of January is pitch black outside. 4.30 p.m. is almost pitch black outside. And I knew when they left my house, my parents' house, it was still somewhat light outside because I remember watching the flatbed with my truck go by the front of the go by the front window um i knew they had gotten to the house around three o 'clock and i knew they weren't there for two and a half hours so i thought well maybe this is how police reports are written initially in a cursory fashion that they're approximate times and then we can tighten timelines later but that always bothered me.

39:41And then every affidavit that was accompanying every seizure of evidence after that kept saying the same thing, that on January 29th, we went to the house in Dayton at 4.30. We left at 5.30. So that was the first time I thought, all right, we're dealing with very sloppy, imprecise police. That was my first inkling that this isn't completely ticked and tied. After I was released from the arraignment on February 2nd, that evening, David called me. David Yannetti called me and said he had got an anonymous phone call from someone saying, you need to pay attention to who lives in the house. I had not even thought about the Alberts.

40:24Not one way or the other, just that I knew that was their house and they had been with us the night before. And I had met them for the first time a week before that. So it was very early on. I've been lucky that very early on and at regular intervals since I have been given gifts of information that helped buoy me. I can't tell you hearing that information from David. And so of course, as soon as David says, this anonymous caller says, look at the owner of the house, I start Googling Brian Albert. And it's within seconds, I find a Google video of him in a boxing ring beating people up. And he looks, I've met him, but I haven't paid much attention to him, but he sounds gruff and he's, he's walking into some drug bust with some kind of shield and weapons.

41:16And, and he just, he looked like a tough, mean, mean guy. Mind you though, at this time, I didn't know John's injuries in detail. When I found him, he had a cut on his, on his nose, on his left side, and he had a cut, um, above his right eye. He had blood coming out of his nose and his eyes were like eggs. But I didn't know if he had broken ribs or his femur was sticking out of his body. I mean, it didn't seem to be, but I didn't know if he had internal bleeding. I didn't know until I saw the hospital photos in May, how obvious it was that this body was not hit by a car or anything like a car.

42:00and this body looks like it was beaten up. So it's, it was every couple months. So we got that tip. We didn't get much. March and April of 2022 were very tough. I, John was in my life so much, so thickly, and then he wasn't anymore. It was the only relationship I've had, and I've had many that, I mean, I'm 45 and I've been dating since I was a teenager, that ended with such finality. I can't call him when I'm out in Boston at 1 a.m. when the bar closes like I did when I was in my 20s. I can't miss him in a few weeks and say, just thinking of you, or can I drop by and see you? I've never been forced to deal with such finality.

42:54I've never had a death that close to me. So March and April were difficult. There just wasn't anything going on. We weren't getting any police reports. I still didn't know what they were using to charge me. And it was in May that they finally released the photos that were taken of him at the hospital and then the autopsy with two different events. And it was very obvious to me. This is not what they're claiming. there's there's a cracked tail light on my car and John is pristine pristine from the neck down with the exception of his right arm um and coupling that and David continued to get this anonymous tip to look at Brian Albert um coupling those together it it it gave me hope that I'm I may be able to figure out what happened what happened

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46:36Karen Read:We saw the footage of the second arrest, which was probably one of the more shocking pieces of footage connected to your case you had no idea that they were coming because you're just in short pajamas and you're begging to change before they take you in and then eventually they mock you because you beg to change and they're like look at how much she cares about being on tv have you seen the footage I have seen stills of it but I've steered clear it is very difficult for me and I've warned my parents not to um I I think my dad just watches everything, but I've warned them not to. I'm being judged with second-degree murder now?

47:13That's correct. I have no idea what this is about now. It's about the same exact incident, okay? Where's the medication? Can I use the ladies' room?

47:20Karen Read:I understand. We're going to get all that. Call your parents, and they can come over and retrieve any item you need at once. Yep. I can't put... Hold on, hold on. What about the shoe wear? What kind of footwear do you wear? Anything, but can I... I don't even have underwear. Can I put pants on? Again, your parents can come over here and retrieve anything. We'll get that medication for you. Can I put pants on, please? Can you just step over the side, please? Where are your pants? At the foot of my bed. Can I just have a pair of jeans? Sergeant, we'll get them. In the meantime, let's follow this trooper right here, all right?

47:52But where can I put my pants on?

47:53Karen Read:At the barracks. Can I put them on before I go out of my house, please? Ma 'am, that's not part of our procedure. Once you come on this, please. Can I put pajamas on? You don't have a chance to change. Through the barracks.

48:09Karen Read:You have a seat there for me?

48:15Karen Read:Then you got to put that in your door, it's double locked. See how crazy she is? She's more concerned when she looks like it's on TV. I'm still recording, just to let you know. Okay. I have seen the footage from my own backyard camera after I was arrested the first time. And once I started to figure out what was happening, I was frightened. I was frightened about who was on the other side, who was on the law enforcement side that is trying to pin this on me and who killed John that could be in my backyard right now. And then I learned about Sandra Birchmore. I did worry. I live alone. I'm like a sitting duck.

48:56will I be hanging from a door a doorknob in my house and they could easily explain it as guilt depression over what had happened and she just gave up so the first six months of 2022 were difficult I had not even been explained to the concept of an upcharge my understanding was you get indicted on what you were charged for. I didn't realize that the district attorney can present anything he wants to the grand jury and they can charge me with anything. They could have charged me with also breaking into the Alberts house and stealing their TV set while I was parked outside. I didn't realize that and shame on me that I didn't learn that.

49:46I was trying to learn as much as I could. During these months, I was reading a book every couple days just about the criminal justice system and defending yourself and how this works. But June 9th, I was home alone. Like I was most days, I would do yard work, I'd put headphones in, I'd wait for one of the lawyers to call. I had been mowing the lawn, I hadn't showered yet. I was wearing boxers and I actually just had a tank top on. I didn't have any underwear on. And I came in from doing yard work and I decided I was going to cook for myself. I mean, this was my catharsis. I would go outside. I tried to get sun.

50:27I did a lot of, asked my neighbors. I was out in my yard every day, just trying to sweat, at least physically tire myself out so I could sleep at night. And I was cooking. I was trying to eat well. So I was making a pot of chili. I was finishing everything up. I had music on and all of a sudden I hear voices and I lower the music. I go to the front door and my windows are open. My storm door is closed, but the screen is up. And I heard a voice say, let's do this in the back. There's cameras out front. I had a very clear, it wasn't a ring doorbell. It was a, it was private security system, but there was very visible camera over the front door, but I also had them 360 around my whole property.

51:12So I heard that voice, let's do this around back. There's cameras out here. I see two cops. I couldn't make out who they were, but I could see them walking around by the garage of my property, which kind of requires you to go down into the driveway. The garage sits under the house and then up a hill into my backyard. So I start shaking. I look out a window. I see there's, there's a Mansfield, the town I lived in Mansfield, Massachusetts cruiser. And then I think two unmarked cars, maybe there was a third. And I thought that something's happening. The first person I see now I'm looking out the back window.

51:48I'm reaching for my cell phone. I see Michael Proctor in plain clothes, walking by himself. Now he's he's soon to be followed by Buknik and another state trooper, I believe, and a Mansfield cop. I think the state police have to call in local assist whenever they're in a different jurisdiction. For a split second, I thought Michael Proctor was there to hurt me. I had no idea. Why is he here? Why is he in plain clothes? Why is he at my back door? Which is almost in the woods. There's no inviting path to my back door. You would have no reason to go looking for my back door. I called David Yannetty, and it's just like a dream where you just can't dial the number, or you're trying to text, and you can't get the text right.

52:43And it's like that in real life. Like, your hands are shaking, and I think I dialed his number like three or four times before I finally was able to dial it correctly. and I said David Proctor's here there's police here I don't know what they're doing and I can't remember if David told me that he had just gotten a phone call that I was indicted or if he guessed you you they may have just indicted you I knew that they were close to um I was hearing through the grapevine that people were testifying um so I can't remember exactly what David said to me I then I think I either called my dad I think I called my dad um and I said daddy I think I'm getting arrested again and my poor dad he I know that was the worst one of the worst moments of this whole thing because we were just completely bewildered what now um so I take the phone it's still dialed in I'm connected to David

53:54i walk outside one of the first thing that happens proctor is reading me he's reading me my rights and he's telling me that i've been charged with murder and buknik in the middle of all this i'm trying to i'm on sensory overload but i'm trying to absorb what's going on Buknik takes my cell phone and goes I'll be taking that and he puts the cell phone still connected to David Yannetti in his in his pocket there is no search warrant for that phone that is not the phone I had on January 29th they already have that phone so they did for some period of time have my replacement cell phone and who knows who knows what they did with it I know when they took it, there was an active line open to David Yannetti.

54:41So I know when Buknik took the phone, there was at least an open line. So while Proctor's reading this to me, the indictment and my rights, he's, he starts pinning my arms behind my back and I'm trying to move away from him because I still don't understand. I've done everything. I've shown up at every hearing. I'm at my house. I'm, I haven't broken the law. I haven't driven. Why am I being arrested? I did hear the word murder so there's there's gears grinding in my head that something something's gotten worse here so he's trying to pin my arms and cuff me and I'm trying to move away from him and at the same time I'm saying to him now I haven't heard the tape but my recollection is I'm saying to him can I please have some clothes you don't I'm not even wearing underwear I've had a colostomy bag at four different periods in my life so leaving anywhere without pants or underwear or certain materials that I need is of the utmost embarrassment.

55:43And Proctor knows this. He said, I did see a clip of him saying she's worried what, I think it was on TV. Yes. He said she's worried what she looks like for the cameras. All she can think about is the cameras.

55:56Karen Read:He says, you see how crazy she is. She is more concerned about how she looks on TV.

56:08more of proctor misrepresenting everything including that first of all the only reason cameras were there is because the district attorney or the state police called called cameras i i arrived at the state police barracks an hour later and they were all there i was escorted from the barracks the next morning for my arraignment and they were all there and they were all at the courthouse. So the only reason cameras are involved is because you're parading me and trying to make a case out of this. You're trying to show me looking this way like a criminal. And that's why you called the cameras in, but I should be allowed to put pants on or shoes.

56:48So Buknik goes into my house. I see him on my own home surveillance system. he's in my house for about 10 minutes I told him where my closet was where the room was I have a bunch of suit I was a professional wearing suits and professional attire my whole career I have a closet filled with these clothes and I directed him to that closet he instead goes to the barracks with a pair of flip-flops I don't know where he found them from my Javianas that I wear to the beach and ripped, ripped jeans that I had just taken off from mowing my lawn. They had holes. They didn't cover my ankles. I would never wear these jeans, the grass stains.

57:36I can't remember if they gave me the clothes to wear that night in the cell or if he gave them to me before I went to court in the morning. A girlfriend of mine came to the barracks in the middle of the night with court clothes, with black pants, a black top, and black shoes. And they would not allow me to put those clothes on for court. So I heard her come in. I was in a cell. And she said, can I give these for Karen for the morning? And they said something to her like, we can't guarantee that, but we'll take them. They gave them to me at some point the next day. They didn't allow me to put them on.

58:13Instead, they forced me to take the bag of clothes that Buknik had secured, which was ripped jeans and flip-flops. That night was one of the worst nights of my life in the past four years because I called David from jail, and he was worried. He was not able to tell me anything to allay my fright. I mean, it's not concern. It was fright. And he said, they've upcharged you with murder. I don't know how they're able to do that on what evidence, but they've increased the charges. They want to keep you locked up now through trial, through verdict. But if we're asking for bail, they're requesting a million dollars, which of course I did not have.

59:05So I spent the night knowing that, that I've got to go before a judge tomorrow. I didn't know what judge it would be. and I have to hope they lower this bill, that they allow me to post it. A judge can deny you bail altogether, that you're a danger to society, you've been indicted for murder, you're not going home.

59:27Karen Read:There are active lawsuits between you and Michael Proctor, amongst others, you know, so there's some things that you can't say, but there are things that are indisputable. So Michael Proctor himself has admitted that he has texted people in group chats. he texted that he hasn't found your nudes yet he talked about and made fun of your medical condition saying quote she's got a leaky balloon knot it leaks poo calling you a quote whack job and then basically saying you are a babe with no ass she's got a leaky balloon knot you followed that up with the phrase leaks poo didn't you i did yeah she's a babe weird fall river accent though No ass.

1:00:14Karen Read:When did you first find out about these text messages? What was going on in your mind? I knew there were vile text messages. They were under a federal protective order. They were first encountered by my team, by my lawyers in February of 2024, just before the first trial. I was not able to view these text messages. I just knew the generals that they existed and I knew they were involved in the cross-examination prep, which I was very involved in. To have him, Michael Proctor himself, on the stand reading out what he sent, what's going on in your mind? There had been some leaks on Twitter that I saw an account.

1:01:03We called her a client, which I assumed someone like him uses language like that anyway. I knew in general that they were vile. But when he read them, I was actually annoyed that Adam Lally preempted us bringing these messages out in cross-examination. That should have been our moment. He's your lead detective. You are letting him lay this case out. This is showing bias. And you always run into this issue with trial that if the evidence has already come out, you risk the judge saying, Mr. Jackson, Mr. Yonetti, that's already been asked and answered. so there was this worry that lally is going to let proctor read the text messages with very flat affect and and and he did you could barely understand she's a babe with no ash she has a leaky balloon and next question you know it was by design let's let's get him out there and preempt the defense from getting it out there luckily we were still allowed and we we made the biggest moment of it.

1:02:11I cared more about his lies. What he said about me and my anatomy, it's disgusting, but it did not embarrass me. Michael Proctor does not have the ability to embarrass me. In fact, I have all that I have in my life right now and the love and support and new endeavors such as this and meeting people like you, ironically, because of Michael Proctor and what he tried to do to me, joking about my asshole. I mean, I don't even want to say it was a joke. He was talking about my rectum and that I've had rectal surgery, that this is a father of children, of boys, scarily. This is a husband of a woman, someone's son.

1:03:06This is a cop with power and carrying a gun and my age more or less. And this is his vernacular, a balloon knot and talking about my rectum. You're not embarrassing me. You're embarrassing yourself. And my medical issues I've never been embarrassed by. I've struggled to deal with them in society and in intimate situations. But I'm proud of what I've had to deal with. And the more I talk to people and the older I grow, I know everyone's got something. No one's escaping completely in one piece as we age. I cared more about his lies. is him lying so blatantly, every search warrant, nine of them, took the car at 530, took the car at 530.

1:04:05Why, why, why? Because the cert team, and this was another major lamppost in 2022 for me, was when I was finally indicted after the awful experience of June 9th into June 10th. the floodgates opened and now we get all the discovery and a cousin of mine who's an attorney we agreed we'd get the discovery which was thousands and thousands of pages and we we attacked it from I think she went from the beginning to the middle and I went from the end to the middle and she was she's a lobbyist she was working full-time but every night she went home I worked on it all day she worked on it all night and she called me one night this isn't about July so I've been indicted now and up charge for a month and we're working our way through our discovery I don't know what day I would be guessing but it was like a Thursday a weeknight she calls me at about 10 or 11 and she said Karen read the cert report this is the the crime scene services search team it's eight and a half by 11 piece of paper and there's a whole box for a narrative about the evidence that was found at 34 Fairview.

1:05:16And there's only four lines that I needed glasses to read what they said. And it was that the first pieces of red and clear lens were found at 34 Fairview. I can't remember if the report said 545 or 6pm. And then all of a sudden it was my light was not there all day long because that was something I could not reconcile. for months and months in 2022. But how did my taillight get there? How did they somehow find pieces of it broken at John's house from when I hit John's car at five in the morning? And were they able to transport those? That's the only thing I could figure out. And I still didn't have an answer as to why he lied about taking my car at 530 when he actually took it and left at 415.

1:06:08And it was that night in July, the CERT team did not find taillight until after Proctor had the taillight. And he had to get himself out of Canton at 545. If he's in Dayton at 530 in a blizzard, 35 miles from Canton, there's no way he can be in Canton with the Lexus and the Lexus's red taillight at 545. And it just, it was just the biggest eureka of more than the text messages, more than the butt dials, more than the phone and the SIM card cut up at the Air Force Base. To me, it was the cornerstone because it just bothered me. I just couldn't reconcile how did my taillight get there. I know I did not break my taillight at 35.

1:06:57I tried to think of every scenario in which I could have, and none of it was reasonable. And then I realized that moment, it was placed there after they had access to it. And the inverted footage. And the inverted footage. I mean, the inverted footage didn't come for two more years, but when Proctor was on the stand reading the messages...

1:07:17Karen Read:He's a whack job. See you... Objection. So these are your words, Trooper Proctor? Yes, Your Honor. Go ahead and say them. I'm going through his client's phone right now, correct? Yes, after the picture, sir, yes. Who's the client? I was referring to Ms. Freed. He also called her retarded, correct? That is what's written. And that's what you read. I have no memory of reading that. I acknowledged him going through the phone. on my apple watch i have no memory of him writing retarded on a text message did you encourage that statement by michael proctor by liking it with a thumbs up i don't know if it encouraged him but so i cannot i cannot speak but that's what you did i acknowledged the text message being sent Could you read all of them, please?

1:08:25Karen Read:These are not my words. I'm not really comfortable reading these. Do I have to say these words out loud? I'll say the words, and I'm going to ask you if I'm reading accurately. Is that better? Yes. 11 p.m., 5 minutes, 57 seconds. Mr. Proctor says, from all accounts, he didn't do a thing wrong. She's a whack job, and then uses the C word to describe. Is that accurate? That's accurate. At the bottom from one member in the group stating, oh, she's skating? Yes. Mr. Proctor responds, zero chance she's skated. She's effed. She's fucked. Yes. And then one person in the group says, no ass bitch. Accurate?

1:09:05That's accurate. Mr.

1:09:07Karen Read:Proctor, there's a response, laughed at, quote, no ass bitch. Yes. Somebody in the group says, is that chick a smoke? and then the same person follows up with a question mark? Accurate? Accurate. Mr. Proctor responds, eh, E-H? Yes. Nutbag, as my chief would say? Yes. She's got a leaky balloon knot? Yes. Leaks poo? Yes. Are those the words of Mr. Proctor? They are. Did I read those accurately? You did. But you're still friends with him? I am. He could be a pig and I could still be guilty. that's why I wanted the focus of the jury to be on Proctor's lies and the actual framing and how was this orchestrated and not on the fact that this man is a vile pig who talks about people's rectums you you could still have a guilty woman and just a a very unprofessional investigator.

1:10:14I cared much more about the lies that enabled him to pull off what he pulled off. And the text messages were just, I just spent my energy assuring my parents that, do not feel bad for me. This man does not have that power over me. Anyone who looks at me differently because some stranger who's never seen me naked is going to talk about my anatomy. Anyone who finds that entertaining or is going to judge me for it isn't anybody I want in my life anyway.

1:10:49Karen Read:Yeah. During the trial, you're sitting there. The witnesses are going up onto the stand. They're testifying. They're like, Karen did this. Karen said this. How do you not go up and testify? Do you not have the urge to be like, no, let me tell you? I did have the urge and I tried to to quell that and satiate it by doing the documentary so that I could go back to the hotel at night and be interviewed the judge was appearing to be so much more lenient with her rulings with the prosecution than she was with us I mean we had to fight for everything and it it seemed to be a one-way street that there was a worry if I testified the prosecutor especially Brennan he was he was he seemed to be given even more latitude than Lally was he he did this with our witnesses he was putting words in their mouths in his in his questions of those witnesses um not exactly but for example something like he would say to Dr.

1:11:51Wolf from ARCA so after a car has backed up 60 feet at 20 miles an hour and damaged this arm then did the car keep going like he he you can't testify for the witness wolf has to agree that that car i can't remember the numbers anymore i used to know them with precision and now i don't but he would ask a question and insert the answer he wanted which he shouldn't be allowed to do but he was so there was real risk, same with risks putting Proctor on the stand, that we're not playing by the same rules, that Brennan was just so unethical in his questioning. I was really all right. I had lived three years before the first trial of long hearings, battling for things.

1:12:42I was getting used to it at this point. I don't think the public really started paying attention outside of the local market really started paying attention until trial. But we had hours and hours of hearings for three years, including two arrests where I was in chains, shackled and handcuffed. So I had gotten very good at venting to the people that were there to be to be vented to. And I knew if I can escape this, this hell, I will be able to get my side out. So it wasn't as bad as people think, like, how did you watch this person and not scream? I felt very close to God. I felt my parents' presence behind me.

1:13:26I had my lawyers who became like family, all of them to me. And I knew they were frustrated on my behalf. And I knew the public, especially by the second trial, the public knew what was happening that Karen this isn't your your scourge this is not your cross alone everybody behind you and around you is carrying it do not let it do not let it eat at you do not let that person control you um and and it they were all so so repetitive and so like one another like I don't recall and it was the defendant and and um and uh I I wish I'd known I wish I had gone outside and I it was it was it wasn't laughable it was very serious but it was very predictable and um and I hope it was transparent to the jury and apparently it was to both juries because I

1:14:26Karen Read:was acquitted both times did you get a vibe that auntie Bev did not like you yeah judge Kanoni Yes. Yes. I felt that Judge Kanoni did not. I felt that she had a personal animus towards me. Absolutely. I felt it very early on. In our early hearings in 2022, we wouldn't be called right away because there were other cases. they started prioritizing us and we were drawing such crowds that when we would have a hearing they would get it started very promptly to help clear the courthouse get us all in and get us all out get the media out and then hear other cases but early on when it wasn't attracting a big crowd we would wait our turn and there'd be other cases and other defendants called and I was sitting at a hearing um I think I want to say it was September of 2022 was like the first hearing that Alan was on the team for.

1:15:19And we were sitting in the back row, if you're looking at the courtroom on the left side, waiting. And there were maybe four other cases that she called. And every defendant, it was all four men, maybe one woman, thank you for being here. Thank you for dressing professionally for court. She said this, it was on repeat for every, thank you for being here. Thank you for dressing professionally to court. This happened in multiple hearings. She never said it to me. There were moments that I felt she was ruling unfairly, but as far as not liking me, that was the first indication I felt she may not like me personally for some reason.

1:16:00And then there was a moment with the verdict form in trial one where, I mean, your viewers need to see the verdict form if they haven't, that they then tried to present in the second trial, again, this verdict form, it had just by setup, it had the word guilty eight times and the word not guilty three times. It's visually confusing. It's visually confusing. And it's prejudicing the jurors to think I'm guilty because they just see the word guilty so many times. So Alan is arguing with the court and with the clerk that we want to revise this verdict form and she's arguing this is how it's always done Mr.

1:16:43Jackson this is how it's done in Massachusetts I mean that was the topic of what was happening at the time and she just kind of dismissed it and we're done here and I went like just like that and she said is this funny Ms. Reed okay I disagree with you all right

1:17:03Karen Read:Excuse me, this is funny, Ms. Reed? All right, we're done. All rise to the court, please. I think it was prejudicial towards me, the defendant, that she chose to characterize my exasperation as making a joke of the proceeding. Is this funny, Ms. Reed? My jurors and the media heard that, and that was a gross mischaracterization. Judge Kanoni knows exactly what my reaction was. It was one of disbelief and exasperation and frustration. And she addressed me. I'm I have lawyers here who speak on my behalf. You can address my lawyers who can address me. But you addressing me directly is baiting me. Yeah.

1:17:52To then respond to the court, which will not end well for me. But those and the list, the list goes on. But her calling me out, like, she knows what I'm going through right now. Yeah. She knows how difficult this is for any defendant to stand trial. When the verdict was read, we were prepared for a sentencing hearing. So my legal team in the days of the verdict watch was split up into two groups. At the hotel, Alan had a suite at one end of the top floor and Bob Alessi had a suite at the other. And we had two teams. Liza, Evan, Alan and I were working on the closing argument. David, Yannetti, Bob and Sophie and Sydney, two of our interns, were in Bob's room working on a sentencing hearing.

1:18:51So if God forbid I was convicted of anything, which we thought there was a likelihood I could be convicted of the OUI based on how the first trial ended, hung up, looking, jurors were telling us they were looking for an OUI, not a manslaughter OUI, but just garden variety OUI that was not there. they were working on sentencing that if I was convicted of OUI we fully expected I did anyway my lawyers were split that Brennan would ask for the maximum two years so it was such a difficult decision to put the OUI on the slip because I felt I was almost guaranteeing I was going to go jail that with this district attorney and this judge, if I don't put OUI on, the jury is forced, if they want to convict me, it's going to have to do with John's death.

1:19:48But once I put OUI on, just drunk driving, I'm much more likely, based on the evidence, the blood alcohol taken from the hospital, I'm more likely to get a conviction. And while I'm not facing life in prison, I could be facing two years in prison. I had to have, I got about a dozen character letters, they're called, of not friends and family, but teachers I've had, students I've had, co-workers of mine. And the character letter has to be written on the premise that you are guilty. You're not arguing for my innocence. You have to accept the conviction, but then argue for the judge based on my character and what they know about me personally, that she should go light on sentencing.

1:20:31So I'm in one room preparing for a full acquittal with Alan's clothes. And then I'm running down the hall and making sure all the letters, the character letters are printed, getting printed. And we have case law for the judge that this is a first time OUI. What do you do for a first time OUI? You suspend their license and they go to a drunk driving class. If Brennan, which we expected, was going to argue for jail time, we had to have a robust motion in opposition. Why not? So the verdict is read. I'm relieved, but I'm still waiting after the final not guilty, the leaving scene was read. I still have sentencing because I was found guilty of the OUI.

1:21:10So Judge Canoni looks at Hank Brennan and says, and what do you recommend for sentencing? And this was almost more shocking than the verdict. Truly shocking. Like I had expected it, if I had to bet an appendage, had thought if I was convicted of OUI or anything, Brennan would ask for the max sentence. And I thought she would split the baby and say, well, the max is two. I'm going to give her a year, which is still devastating. So she looks to Brennan and he says, the Commonwealth recommends one year probation with a suspended license and she looks at him and says same as every other first time offender and he goes same as every other first time and it was like the most charitable thing the actually not even charitable i'm i'm i'm miscalibrated it was fair if you're not used

1:22:03Karen Read:to that i i okay mr brennan what's the commonwealth's recommendation the commonwealth moves for sentencing, you recommend probation, one year, 24D program. So the standard that everybody else gets on their first time OUI? Certainly. Okay. So I'm happy to do it. All right. Thank you all. One year probation, one year probation on docket number 002. It's the wildest turn of events. I couldn't believe that this man Brennan was just arguing in his closing argument two days earlier for me to spend my life in prison and then he has a moment with a judge that seems favorable to him to send me to jail enough to hurt a week is enough to hurt and he says just slap her on the wrist I I looked at them and it just, so wait, is this, were you faking all along?

1:22:59Or you know, this is the only way to be saved with your public image is you lost. So now you almost have to be reasonable. But this is just a big, it just felt like a big game that they call in the jury. They're about to read the verdict. They stuff the courtroom with court officers because if I'm guilty of if I'm sentenced to anything requiring incarceration and if I'm convicted of murder, I'm getting cuffed right there on the spot. I can't reach behind and squeeze my mother. I can't hug one of my lawyers. It's over. And I'm walking out the back door. So they surround you and to prevent any outburst and to control me.

1:23:45and then in the blink of an eye it's yeah just make her go to a DUI class and there's a parade out front for her too by the way it was just that was the most befuddling of the three months of the second trial was when Brennan said yeah just one year probation I'm like wait a minute you you've been trying to end my life you're can you at least be consistent yeah and pretend you think I'm a bad person can you just finish the charade and and even uh with the judge um so the standard that

1:24:18Karen Read:everybody else gets on their first time OUI certainly okay it was same as every other like geez I haven't felt same as every other defendant at all in this in this courthouse um that I was still in shock at that I was I was convicted of the OUI and that Brennan didn't argue and all that work we did of course because we were prepared we didn't need it thank god um but that was one of the more shocking shocking events of the second trial for me that is part one of our interview with karen reed we're going to be posting the rest of the audio episode as well as the full video interview on our youtube channel tomorrow rotten mango so stay tuned let me know in the comments what you think and stay safe

1:25:12Karen Read:Netflix has done it again. Unknown Number, The Crash, and now the new must-see documentary, Maternal Instinct, tells the story of Taylor Parker. While claiming to come from a wealthy family, she fell for Wade Griffin, a hog trapper in a small Texas town. Their relationship appeared perfect, complete with a pregnancy that she shared all over her social media. But doubts around her pregnancy grew. And when the truth finally surfaced, it brought horrifying consequences. Meet Taylor Parker, the youngest woman on death row, and the town that knew she was lying but did nothing to stop her. Watch Maternal Instinct now, only on Netflix.

1:25:49Karen Read:Leviticus is this summer's horror discovery of immense power that critics are hailing as haunting and heartbreaking. If you see anything that looks like me, don't go near it. When a curse is inflicted on two teenage boys, They must escape a violent entity that takes the form of the person they desire most. Each other. I know it's not you. Critics are raving that it is a bone-chilling horror that's biblically scary. It's gonna kill him! Leviticus. Rated R. In theaters June 19th. Get tickets now.