Kidnapping Of Nancy Guthrie: 2 Men Detained & Why Is The Internet Pointing Fingers At Son-in-Law

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1:17In one of Savannah's books titled Mostly What God Does, she writes about how her and her cousins had this really cute tradition growing up, which they called the kidnapping game, where her cousin would visit the house, stay with them during summer break. So her cousin lives in Phoenix, which is a few hours away from Tucson. So her cousin would come stay in their family house in Tucson. And when she's about to leave, she would wake everyone up the next morning really early, you know, Savannah and Annie, and she would say, you should come with me. They would get in her car, drive to Phoenix, and on the way to Phoenix, they would stop by a payphone, call Nancy, Savannah and Annie's mom, and let her know, but in like a cute playful way.

1:56Mom, cousin has kidnapped us to take her to her house. Nancy would act shocked because at this point this is like a summer tradition and she would protest how much she would miss her daughters but then assure them that in a few days she will drive up to get them. It's like a summer tradition. Some people think it's eerie. I think it just makes the whole situation more devastating. I'm sure there's moments where everyone in the family wishes that this was just a joke, that this was also just a game, and that Nancy will be home as if it's just a prank but it is not and Nancy Guthrie is now going on over a month of being missing and this is part two of the audio podcast for the case of Nancy Guthrie go listen to part one of the audio podcast if you haven't already we uncovered the whole timeline what authorities have said people's suspicion people's undying suspicion on Tommaso which is the son-in-law and the arguments against it and there's just a lot happening in part one.

2:53But with that being said, let's just jump into part two.

3:17There are so many questions. such as does the sheriff's office even know what the hell that they're doing? Side note, the sheriff's office of Pima County is the one leading the investigation into Nancy Guthrie's disappearance. They have their own A &E TV show called Desert Law, where the sheriff himself does not appear on camera, but allegedly he's extensively involved in the production of it. In the show, they look like this well-organized crime unit that moves in synchrony to stop the bad guys, which Tucson is about an hour from the border so there is a lot of smuggling of all sorts. Avocado smuggling is big in that area.

3:52It's not just smuggling and avocados but drug cartels will conceal the narcotics mixed in with the avocados to get it across the border but they don't really handle a lot of ransom for Bitcoin cases in Tucson. Do we know that the sheriff is well equipped to handle this case? From the very beginning there were reports coming out that the sheriff and the FBI were not playing well together whilst investigating this case, which is the last thing you want. And it all stems, they've got beef. They have beef going back to 2016. This is not like one of those cop shows where it's like, oh, this is my jurisdiction.

4:25No, it's not. They have long stemming issues between the two. The sheriff has come out and since denied that he feels any sort of beef or vitriol towards the feds, but it is interesting. The feds were investigating Pima Sheriff's Department in 2016, believing that they were taking RICO forfeiture funds. Yeah, the thing that Sean Combs was charged with, RICO. So they're like, OK, if you've been racketeering, I'm going to take your assets. They take the assets and then those assets can be used for department things like crime prevention, specific law enforcement activities. This is by the law, like by the word.

5:03Right. But the FBI started investigating because they're like, wait, we think we heard from a little tipster a whistleblower that you guys are using rico money to bankroll the remodel of a cafe inside the sheriff's headquarters what can they use it for legally crime prevention but this does not fall under crime prevention okay like how does having a better matcha latte for the sheriff prevent more crime right that was denied by the sheriff's office they said we didn't do that And then a whistleblower comes out to state funds were used to host these special award ceremonies for the cops, helping pay for food, goodie bags for the officers, a Santa sleigh, rented tuxedos.

5:45Allegedly, the total cost of the award ceremonies was around$250 ,000 over the years. That was likely taken from Rico money is the allegation. The investigation was a big deal, like a really big deal. one of the officers being investigated for transferring funds into his personal account was found dead from self-exit on Father's Day. He was widely considered to be the mastermind of this whole RICO money laundering scheme. Okay, well, I don't know if I would call it a money laundering scheme. This investigation. However, even the death, there were concerns that the death should be investigated independently by a third party because, sure, he might have reason to want a self-exit, but also someone would want him dead because maybe he could go down for everything.

6:25That's something to consider. But the sheriff was allegedly adamant that it be handled by his team internally. Sheriff Nanos, that same sheriff, is the one working this case. And some people who know Sheriff Nanos says that he holds a grudge and that he doesn't like the feds after that 2016 investigation. But those are allegations. Those are speculations. Those are opinions. There are more reports, though, coming out that the sheriff does not want the FBI to take over, which, I mean, it seems like they probably should. and that there's just a lot of annoying things happening in this investigation.

7:00First of all, here's the weird thing. There are a few key pieces of forensic evidence that are deemed to be highly important in this case. There's probably more that the public doesn't know about, but the ones that the public do know about is one, obviously the blood tested on the front porch turned out to be Nancy Guthrie's. Second, they do find a pair of gloves 11 days later near the house off the main highway. they think it could be the gloves used by the perpetrator or perpetrators it's like those black nitrile gloves so i mean they found a lot of them so they sent all of them out for testing and a ton of them turned out to be some of the search workers would just like i guess they would put their search gloves into a baggie and maybe that bag blew away in the wind and they just had scattered gloves everywhere but that was a key key piece of evidence then the third key piece of evidence is they did find dna inside the house nancy guthrie's house that did not belong to nancy Guthrie or any of her family members, relatives, or anyone that I guess works in that house frequently.

7:59But where this information is sent, where this data is sent to be tested for the forensics is really important. The sheriff, interestingly, the FBI is like, we can take it to Quantico. Why would you not want it tested in Quantico? I don't know anything, but I probably would want it tested in Quantico, okay? But the sheriff is like, no, I'm going to send it to our private lab in Florida. So he sends it to the private lab in Florida. Now, a lot of people had a lot to say about this, but he does, you know, kind of defend his decision. And in a slightly convoluted way, he says, why did we give ours to our lab?

8:32Because it's what we've done for years and our labs always have done well. In fact, we use the FBI before. They're very good at solving things and doing things. But the FBI, not unlike our Department of Public Safety in Phoenix, they have a lab, you know, they could have been used. But we look at it as this. If I use, for example, a state lab, DPS, or the federal lab, Quantico, you have to understand they have others using those labs too. So it really puts a lot of strain on them to prioritize those cases and do what they can with them, where if I have my own lab or a contract lab, it allows me easier access to those cases that I think are important to us.

9:06And I'm not talking, you know, this case, but I'm just talking cases in general. You know, and he's like, so now we find a glove. FBI says, oh, we can send it to Quantico. And I said, well, you know what, let's just keep it all in one place so he's like i've already been sending it to this lab so let's keep sending it to this lab which i will say a lot of people are like okay there is a little bit of validity in that statement as when you have multiple different labs involved and there if there is a criminal trial eventually it's a lot of people testify okay yeah okay so then he's like let's just keep it all in one place let's just send it to our lab and it's not like no the fbi's got a bad lab or no you know the sheriff's department uses dnl at bad luck no it's about keeping your evidence together in one spot this is the sheriff speaking and when that report comes out it goes to both agencies it just made sense you know out there they said oh the sheriff blocked evidence this conversation i had with the fbi lasted probably a minute and a half and they said make sense and it was done there was no blocking evidence that's just crazy so that glove that they found you said they found multiple gloves why is that glove special or they had reason to believe that it was special they got it tested and there was no codis database match which codis is like the vast network of anyone with a criminal history they have all of their prints but interestingly is kidnapping a lot of experts say is not a first offender crime yeah you know statistically you don't have kidnappers that wake up one day with a clean record that say today is the day that i kidnapped someone usually they're going to have some sort of a rap sheet previously so they say that it's very interesting that there's no link in the...

10:42Even more suspicious. And then later they came out to say, actually, maybe it wasn't a glove that was important because it actually belonged to a restaurant worker nearby. How do they know it belonged to a restaurant worker? We don't know. Like, did they go and test all the restaurant workers? They just said it was a restaurant worker. The sheriff has also been criticized for being seen at a basketball game during the investigation. And apparently the sheriff didn't even know about Savannah Guthrie's video that she posted on Instagram with her siblings the very first video until his wife told him about it.

11:14And he mentions this to the media. And so everyone is like, this feels like a very expensive, unproductive investigation, if that's the case, because it just feels weird. We're spending a lot of taxpayer resources and not saying that it shouldn't be spent. I'm just saying there are a lot of missing persons out there where maybe they don't get this allocation of funds and personnel to search. And this is how you guys are handled. Like you didn't even know that you were putting out a video. It doesn't even make any sense. The sheriff is also probably not used to being analyzed on a national scale for every word that he says.

11:51He doesn't strike me as particularly organized with his thoughts when he is speaking off the cuff. So here's a rundown of the questions and answers given by the sheriff during multiple different press conferences. Sheriff, is there any indication so far as to whether this was random abduction or targeted? Like I said earlier, we're looking at all the leads and we don't know. We're going to assume both sides of that. We'll look at both sides. Do you have any idea what Nancy Guthrie was wearing or the type of car that she might have left from or any identifiable information that the public could use to help with the tips?

12:22We do not. Sheriff, do you believe that one or more than one person was involved in the kidnapping? Just no clue. It could have been one. It could have been more. Is there any indication that Nancy Guthrie is still alive. We know the medication played a critical role here. It's been 48 hours. She needs it every single day. Are you still looking for someone that is still alive? We hope we are. We hope we are. Sheriff, you said earlier that you don't believe that there's a wider threat to the public. If you're not sure if it's targeted, why do you believe there's no wider threat to the public? Well, we have crime in Tucson all the time, right?

12:51Like any city. And so when you say a threat to the public, is there somebody out there who's kidnapping elderly people in the middle of the night every night we've not heard that we don't believe that's the case we do believe that nancy was taken from her own against her will and that's where we're at even about the rumors of there being forced entry he just states i have no clue where that comes from we have been very consistent we are not discussing that at all whether it was forced entry or not forced entry that is something we're just not discussing we don't know where anybody got that information shed okay well i see so that's a pretty standard question no yeah has there been any proof of life and has there been any sign of life i'm going to anything to deal with the ransom notes i would defer to the fbi but no not to my knowledge we are still looking for nancy do you have any reason to believe that she's still out there alive or are you fearful for the worst case scenario here that she won't be found alive well i'm certainly fearful of that i think we all are but we operate from a position that until we know she's out there, she's alive, we're going to continue thinking that way until we find her.

13:54Is there anything more specific you can say about what you believe the motive to be for the kidnapping at this time? Motive is always going to be a question and we'll know more as we go what that motive is. But right now, my guesswork is as good as yours. With these types of cases, though, sometimes the sheriff does appear disorganized and that's not really good. One expert states, you are broadcasting basically every detail about this case. The more that's released to the public, the more that is now known by everybody, including if there is somebody out there who has Nancy Guthrie, they have to be very careful about what they're letting out about this case.

14:30But the way that he's doing it, like he's not really answering questions, so I'll give him that. But it is weird. Like it's just not the most well done. I will say the FBI, the special agent charge of the Tucson area, like he's a bit more organized with his thoughts during these press conferences. Oh, he's talking as well? Yeah. Alongside? Yeah, and he also diverts questions, doesn't answer questions, and I'm not saying that we deserve answers as the public, right? They should deem whatever is the best for the investigation. However, he is able to respond in a way that's very clear, succinct, and like, this is what's happening.

15:05Okay, that's it.

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17:28but it's interesting because the police union president was interviewed by brian enton and i would go watch the full interview but he works with sheriff nanos and he says sheriff nanos what's their relationship exactly so he is the police union president and he's also an officer so he works under sheriff nanos right but he says sheriff nanos he has an ego that's difficult to describe without sounding hyperbolic. And it drives a lot of his decision making. He's very retaliatory. Favorite version of retaliation is - Wait, he works under him? Yeah, but he can't be fired because he is the president of the police union.

18:04So it's really difficult, I'm sure, to fire him. Wow, okay. Yeah, and so he's like, he's very retaliatory. Favorite version of retaliation is through transfers, which has impacted nearly every unit in this department and decreased our overall readiness. In my opinion, nearly every unit. The experience and expertise that there was, you know, transferred out for whatever reason. And there are real impacts to that. And it lowered morale. And so there was a lot of hope that in the election in 2024, we would have a change in leadership. And when that didn't come to pass, that's when we started seeing a mass exodus of deputies and detectives.

18:38So that's been a huge conversation. Most of the detectives in the homicide unit at the Pima County Sheriff's Department, they're pretty green. Like they don't have a lot of experience. I'm not saying they're not good but it's like do you want the doctor to perform surgery on you that performs surgeries every day or once every few months there's also questions about the team not being well equipped the turnover being high like it's a lot the sheriff states this is a solid team this is a team who solves crime every day they are my experts I would be silly to not listen to them when they tell me we spent 20 some hours at the scene we process the scene I'm taking their word that they're good I don't need to hear from some pundit out there who's never done a crime scene.

19:18I don't need to hear from somebody who's never done a criminal investigation. I've got experts. That's who I choose to listen to. I don't need to hear from somebody who's never done a criminal investigation and that's it. It's just all noise in the background. The critics who want to run for office, go do that stuff. I just want to find Nancy. I want my team focused every morning. When they hit that low, they know that they have someone who believes in them and their work and they're going to do it i have 100 faith they will solve this case if you are the guy if you are that monster you should be worried you should let her go just let her go and so there's been a lot of talk about monday monday morning quarterbacking i don't know what that means i'm not a quarterback who said that the cops no a lot of yeah a lot of cops have been saying that there are a lot of news anchors tv stations social media content creators netizens who are monday morning quarterbacking which i think is to insinuate that you are giving advice in an arena that you don't know i guess it's like when guys give quarterbacks advice when they watch their favorite team play i see yeah so i guess we're all monday morning quarterbacks but 10 days after nancy's disappearance someone is detained a 36 year old delivery driver his house is an hour from nancy's house in rio Rico, Arizona, which is really, really close to the border into Mexico.

20:36And while we do know his name and it has been publicly stated and used, I'm still going to call him Rio for Rio Rico, the city that he's from, just because this case is getting a lot of attention and he's saying that this has ruined his life. Rio is detained. His house is swatted. He's a delivery driver for DoorDash that lives an hour away from Nancy. He has no personal connection to Nancy. What the hell does he have to do with this case? Why would he want to harm Nancy? That's the tricky part of this case. That's a question that even with Rio or any of these people, no one knows. It does appear to some degree that the motive in this case could be harm.

21:14I mean, that's one of the more reasonable motives if we are to believe that that ransom note is not real because that deadline has since long passed. There was no proof of life. There was no effort, at least publicly known, to reach back out to the family to further communication line to get that Bitcoin amount. If that ransom note is not real, then was the intent harm? It's been reported that Nancy left behind her phone, keys, ID, wallet. I don't know if this is true. This is just what's been reported. It has not been authenticated by the law enforcement authorities. But these are the things that you would need to slowly drain someone's finances.

21:52You would need to put in their passwords. You would need their phone. You would their ID, you would need their bank cards so that you could slowly transfer funds. So if money was not the motive, what's the motive? If the ransom note is not real, if money's not the motive, what is the motive? Then people thought maybe this is a robbery gone wrong. So this person came to the door and they thought, okay, this is an elderly woman who lives alone and she's probably sleeping at night and it has been reported that she wears hearing aids. So when she takes off her hearing aids, her hearing is going to be much less than maybe like a younger person in their 30s who has dogs and lives with a whole family of people.

22:30Like it could be different. So maybe this is the perfect house. And a lot of elderly people have a lot more valuables in terms of like heirloom jewelry. I think younger people, a lot of experts were saying when you target a house with a lot of young families, you have a lot of electronics that are harder to sell. When you target older people, you're talking about gold you're talking about jewelry necklaces diamonds like you get a lot more of that that's easier to sell in the market so maybe she's targeted because she's an elderly woman who lives alone in this isolated part of town so then you go and you try to do a home invasion at night but maybe she wakes up but the question is why not just run out then because trying to rob someone an elderly woman of her jewelry is very different from kidnapping someone Like those don't even correlate.

23:20Like you, it's very hard to escalate that way unless you retaliate and perhaps you harm Nancy and she passes away at the scene and now you're removing her body because of DNA or something of that sort. and I know that they sound really grim but I think the only reason that people are even talking about some of these theories now is that Savannah's newest videos that she's uploaded it seems like the family have somewhat come to terms with that Nancy might not be out there alive and I do think you know people just don't understand and I think that brings a lot of fear especially with a case like this because I mean a lot of other times it's a lot of other crimes you can see why things unfolded not that it's justified but I think everyone's scared for their moms so then the next theory is okay well maybe it's Nancy was harmed and so her body needed to be removed from the scene or other people are saying well maybe she pulled down the mask or pulled off the mask of whoever was robbing her and recognized this person maybe she's like this is my housekeeper's son that I met once, you know?

24:25And I'm just saying housekeeper because it seems like the term that everyone is using, it could be a caretaker, though it's not verified that she had a live-in caretaker or a regular caretaker. It could be the pool guy. I'm just saying it could just be someone, right, that has access to her home. But another thing is if this is a robbery gone wrong and these people have probably been scoping out her schedule and her routine in her house, why not just target the house when she was gone for so many hours at her daughter's house just previously that night so then there was some people arguing well no because it was bright outside so if they broke into the house when it's bright there's more of a chance that people would see them but nancy didn't get back home until like 9 50 p.m there's still a few hours of darkness that they could have gone in yeah and another thing is why is the backpack so damn full if you're committing a robbery and you're trying to take valuables would you bring a full backpack yeah that doesn't make sense there are some people saying maybe the backpack is full of duffel bags that are empty that you undo and then you fill it with valuables other people are saying maybe it could contain something darker like a tarp because nancy's blood does stop in the front porch area so it's not like a trail of blood that leads to a vehicle now another thing with the blood though is that a lot of people have been commenting when you're 84 you can bleed very easily if you grab someone's wrist at 84 and yank it their skin is really thin so that could be the blood it doesn't necessarily mean that some big traumatic event had happened it's just i mean there's questions and no answers i know you look confused and i don't have answers no one has answers it's just question after question and then it's like oh well maybe this theory is ruled out but then it just leads to 10 more questions so now the question is did rio rico man know someone who knew the guthries and knew that nancy lived alone and likely had valuables could he be the one in the doorbell footage which side note about this doorbell footage they did not have this footage for a very long time in the investigation it's not like nancy goes missing and this is the first thing that's released when police get to the scene nancy's doorbell camera was ripped off i believe to this day it has yet to be recovered additionally nancy did not have a google nest subscription so she could view the front door camera live but it did not save and log the video it would right over itself so how did they get the footage they had to reach out to google nest and see if google would somehow get that footage and side note it is believed that the fbi had a lot of pull in this and the sheriff has talked about how they were pleading with google and i mean these the last case that we talked about the krug family case these tech companies do not like to give out information of their customers unless they're really like their hand is on the stove and it's very interesting because a lot of people have a lot of feelings about this the fact that the fbi could get google to do this i think there is a lot of some resentment of why don't you do this in most cases then because if you can do it think of all the cases that could have been solved but then that also comes into the right like when is your camera private right fbi can come in and pull the footage yeah so it does seem like a very yeah but i think the sentiment is more so i think um as the investigation goes on further and the news coverage stays strong which i think it's good that it is staying strong because i think it'll probably help bring nancy home sooner i think there is um some resentment that a lot of people feel that their missing loved ones did not get any attention did not get these types of resources so i think that's where the anger is coming from yeah so they were able to get this footage 10 days later and the fbi tweeted the footage cash patel just tweeted the footage really yeah and so that's that's why we have the footage that is so crazy wow and also there was a lot of questions of like oh i didn't know if you were not recording on google nest that google somehow still has that yeah so there was a lot of like conversation about this footage so these footages are always storaged somewhere yeah but i mean the sheriff said that google was working really hard i don't know what they're doing they made it seem like they had to like unpeel the code i don't know he was making it sound like that okay yeah

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