PART 2: Karen Read’s First Exclusive Interview After MURDER ACQUITTAL - Who Killed John O’Keefe?

29:26Karen Read:Do you miss teaching? Do you like I do? Yeah. What did you mainly teach? Like, so finance, but like what? I taught a few different courses, but mainly I taught an introduction to capital markets, like how the stock market works, how a company goes public, how to analyze a company's financial statements. We did a lot of real world examples. I taught through the financial crisis. I started teaching in 07 or 08. I started Fidelity in 07 and I started teaching in 08. I felt at Fidelity, I was very, very much junior. I was a very small fish and just the best pond to be in. But it was difficult on my self-esteem.

30:13It was a lot of strong personalities, incredibly intelligent. The biggest investors, literally the biggest investors. It was a great place. I would never have left on my own accord if I didn't have to. but I felt just for my self-esteem I wanted to do more I felt like teaching um kept me sharp in a different way work I was always my full-time job I was always learning but teaching you have to be prepared every class that there is a student smarter than you or many students smarter than you at least on some topic that there is something they have he or she has a personal interest in broad or narrow, and they are going to know more than you.

30:58And you have to know how deep can I prepare? How much can I help enhance the subject matter? And when do you say, I am not familiar with that. I'm not familiar with that company, or I'm not familiar with that investment product. You cannot fake it. And this is a Bentley is not the Ivy league, but I had incredibly intelligent Ivy League worthy students every semester that I did learn things from, but you've got to know your boundaries. But you also want to push them that if there is interest from students in a topic that I'm not overly comfortable in, how much can I learn so that we can extend this topic?

31:44But I loved it. I loved the students. I love being back on campus. I've always been connected to Bentley. I, my dad's worked there my entire life. I went to basketball camps there in high school. I went to undergrad, I went to grad there. And, and I miss it, but this, I haven't chosen this, but this is what I'm, this was the bigger purpose for me. I don't have children. I don't see that happening at this point. But my my legacy is going to be my impact on Massachusetts and possibly broader criminal justice. And what I did at Bentley and what I did at Fidelity can be easily maybe Bentley, not so easily because teachers, you have freedom and subjectivity to turn a class into whatever you want to turn it into.

32:37but this is like it or not this is what I'm here for and this is what my parents and my friends and my lawyers this is why they went to law school we're going to change we've already changed things even if I was convicted the change has happened people even if that jury came back and convicted me people who watched every day of that trial or three days of the trial know what they saw they don't need a jury to confirm it for them i would i've read comments online when i've indulged against my better instincts that i'm gonna let it play out it hasn't been i'm not going to um buy this conspiracy it's all up to the jury i've read many comments like that like let the let the it's usually from the other side the baddies um let it let it play out.

33:33This is for a jury to decide. Like, what a narrow minded way to go through life that I'm going to let a jury tell me. I mean, it's one thing if you don't watch it, then I guess you the jury is the next best thing. What is their opinion? Juries tend to be reasonable, but read the filings, watch the witnesses. What are you going to you're going to let someone else make up your mind for you? That's like having someone else tell you who should be president. Well, I didn't vote for this president, but that's who the majority says, so that's who it should be. It's those comments are it's just a cop out.

34:11Yeah, it's it's a way to not address the elephant in the room. Would you ever be a lawyer? Like, would you ever become one? Never, never, never. I feel the system is too broken and I'm too old. I think if I were younger and I had more energy and I hope our law our law clerks who we were so blessed to have um which was a brainchild of Alan Jackson's before the first trial like I I'm running out of money I've got a house and then I'm I'm out and then I just have to hope the charity of others gets me there and he said well I've got an idea um let's see if there's any law students got the best universities up here let's see if any yeah third-year law students want to help and we just got a rush David went to BC law Alan went to Harvard and we had a week of interviews Zooms David and I interviewed each law school sent out uh a wanted email David and I did the BC interviews Alan and Liza did the Harvard and we probably did about 40 and that was all we could we could have taken more probably did 40 each um and we each picked our favorites and then i think we each then we kind of convened on the others and my pick so i interviewed the harvard at the the bc my number one pick from the jump was evan wolk who who ended up working on the trial the most for us they were all great and then towards the end of trial evan had a contract to work at a big firm in the seaport and i said i would love for you to go work with Alan, like, cause he just admired, he and Alan got on and Liza, the three of them, like there was a real, Alan and Liza have a great complimentary dynamic and Evan just fit right in.

35:57And I kind of engineered it. I've talked to Evan privately and then I would talk to Alan and now Evan's, Evan's with Alan. Um, Alan and Liza interviewed the Harvard students and we ended up choosing four or five. Among them was the editor of the Harvard Law Review. She's no longer, she's graduated but Sophia Hunt she was kind of our our leader of the interns like the conduit between the interns and Liza who was managing the interns but we could not have done what we did in the second trial with a whole new prosecution new witnesses trying to keep out that the voir direz and the Daubert hearings which we did not have the first trial it took us three days to get Dr.

36:40Russell qualified to testify in trial two. This is after she's already testified in trial one. I had to fly her up here for three days of hearings. Same with ARCA. I can't remember if we had to voir dire or Dauber, Dr. LaPosada, but every witness that Brennan could challenge, every expert he did. And we could never have handled that. We did not have the bandwidth without these law students. I mean, they would sleep at the hotel on couches in our rooms. They'd wear the same suits the next day. I mean, they were indefatigable and just a total lifesaver. They'd become like family to us. They helped save my life.

37:29And I didn't know them one minute. And hopefully, you know, I know them forever now. Did you guys have a group chat? We did. We called it the, I don't know if you heard the name for the ARCA witnesses. Crash Daddy. Crash Daddies. Our group name for the 30-year law students was Crash Gratties.

37:47Karen Read:Oh, my God. That's so good. Yeah. Oh, my God. Because they all graduated. And one of our interns was getting married, graduating, and moving to Chicago to start her job all within, like, two weeks. So they were all, one, Sophie, who is like a little, more like a daughter to me, I guess. but I treat her like a little sister. She hasn't graduated yet, but the other eight have all graduated. So our group thread, that lot, I think it's me with the eight of them or the nine of them was Crash Graddies. That's so good. Speaking of, have you seen the clip where it appears that Auntie Bev, it appears from social opinion that she's checking out Crash Daddy?

38:27Karen Read:Have you seen? I have to show you later. Okay. I've seen that. It's played in slow motion, which anything in slow motion, that's how you get exhibit A, is pausing things at the wrong time. She seems too self-conscious of a woman to have done that knowing she was on camera. But what you're referring to, I have seen. You're going to stay in Massachusetts forever. No, God, I hope I don't have to stay much longer in Massachusetts. Where do you want to live? Anywhere but Massachusetts. 49 other states. Yeah, anywhere. I could be in the middle of the woods. I could be on a farm. I could be on the water.

39:06I don't care. I care who I'm with. I don't want to see another Massachusetts state trooper. I don't care if they're reformed or under a different a different colonel. I have taken too many shots at law enforcement to feel protected by law enforcement. Although we have had many positive experiences, I hope law enforcement that supports me or at least believes me in Massachusetts understands what has happened to me at the hands of law enforcement and why I feel the way I do. My grandfather, my mother's father was a police officer. Obviously, John was a police officer. I am not anti-law enforcement, but I have had many, many members of law enforcement abuse my rights and lie.

40:04And that's as far as I'll go. And I can prove that they have lied. I hope the good law enforcement knows why I feel the way I do. But I don't feel safe in Massachusetts. it's I don't feel that the politics are safe it's not that those problems don't exist everywhere else but um I don't want to be a lawyer I don't want to see any more of the law um I I will try to make change in other ways but uh the the legal system just feels so broken I look at my lawyers And I just think, why? What made you go into this? You're just such an underdog. You're battling the resources of the state, sometimes of the defendant that can't even make bail.

40:53And then how do you hire the crash daddies and La Posada and Dr. Russell? And the government can go with a blank check to Aperture and spend hundreds of thousands of dollars and pay a special prosecutor hundreds of thousands of dollars.

41:14Karen Read:You want to make change but not get into law. Where do you see yourself like in five years? Where would you hope your life to be? I hope within five years we've written the book, which I think will take longer. longer I I'm not even I can get there if I have to but I'm not even in the headspace to start regurgitating and reliving all this I I would and I I need the money so I'm I'll I'll do it when I have to start doing it but um I I think the easiest thing I can do is just keep telling the story there are so many facets to this that the public doesn't know just because there hasn't been And this is my first real interview.

41:58There's so much of what is entailed in this fight that you know more about this case than average, partly because it's played out twice and it's about to be played out in a different form a third time. But what it takes to mount a defense to even stay somewhat competitive to the prosecution, I think the details, the financial costs, the sweat equity, what these lawyers have to sacrifice, it's amazing anyone's acquitted. It really amazes me. And my case was easy to prove. My case was logical. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck. and we still were met with just such a fight from the government that I've paid taxes to and they threw everything at me that they could and didn't come close.

42:57I think the public needs to know, they need to be more careful, they need to know their rights, they need to know not ever to speak to law enforcement. Unfortunately, we can't cooperate the way we would think we need to because if, God forbid, this goes south, it will be used against you in a court of law. It will be manipulated against you in a court of law. It will be taken out of context against you in a court of law. You know, we're trying to put together this YouTube channel, Alan and I. And I read a couple comments, like I'm done hearing from Karen. What does she have to it? I can tell you what it's like to be a defendant and I can tell you what it takes to beat the system.

43:41It's a lot more than what you think. I've lived now six months, three continuous at a time with my defense team, with ancillary members of the defense team, with law students. We had a documentary crew with us at one point. It's emotional and trying and exhausting. and there's a lot of choreography and personal management, I'll call it, to walk into court looking how we looked every day and to be cohesive. And I had three men in their 60s from three different firms, very seasoned in their careers, all having spent time as prosecutors. and then Liza made partner along the way, also experienced with her own opinions.

44:37We don't just show up and put Kelly Deaver on the stand. Everyone has their own experience and therefore their own strategy and their own way of doing things. And they all fall on me to break the tie. It's very, very trying. It's why I feel this crash from trial, because it wasn't just sitting there and trying to keep my emotions in check, which sometimes I didn't do a very good job of. It was what was happening. Honestly, trial sitting there was oftentimes easier than having to go home. The worst nights, the worst moments of trial at times were Monday and Tuesday nights where we just had a grueling day at court and some big witness is coming on Thursday or worse.

45:29We think a big witness is coming Thursday, but Brennan hasn't finalized the batting order yet. So it could be the children are testifying on Thursday or it could be Buknik or it could be Tully. one of the four i mean that's how it goes that's the dirty pool that's happening is we are finding out sometimes within one day's notice who was going to testify we were told that um now i can't remember her name the uh dog dna expert from ucal berkeley she was on the witness list we were told every friday when the judge would call us up at sidebar and say what are the plans who's coming up next. We were told every Friday she's coming.

46:16She should be coming this week. We're trying to make travel arrangements. She should be coming. She never came. And we have our own opinions about why she didn't testify. But it wasn't as if we had this roadmap of trial and we had some time to plan. We, for example, did not know if we could call ARCA until trial had already started. so judge canoni told allen the morning of opening statements in trial two that she had not made up her mind about arca and he was therefore disallowed from mentioning arca in his opening statements so that meant hank brennan presented his case and you're going to hear from aperture ladies and gentleman and two PhDs oh that's right Shannon Burgess lied about his degrees yeah one PhD is going to tell you that that car backed up at uh 24 miles an hour 62 feet and it spun him around like a top and he fell and cracked his head open then we get up to give opening statements and we've got the federally contracted ARCA PhDs who've done all this work and we and we've had them now for a year and we can't mention them so if jurors were paying attention they'd say well wait a minute so the prosecution has a physical reconstructionist who's going to tell us that car damaged that body and that body damaged that car but Reed doesn't have what why they can't prove it so they go into trial thinking I don't think Reed can physically prove yeah that this didn't happen.

47:56This is Kanoni handicapping us. So she said to Alan, the morning of opening, you have 10 minutes. I have not ruled on ARCA. And Alan said, Your Honor, it's in my opening statement. I can't not talk about the, there arguably are two most important witnesses. And she said, you have 10 minutes to sit at the table and edit your opening. And she gave him exactly that i've never seen alan and i've seen him in different states of of pressure this was unspeakable what she was putting him through and he is so choreographed and fastidious and meticulous and everything flows it's not a stream of consciousness it's something he's worked and massaged and he reiterates themes as he goes through he didn't just talk about arca once he introduced them in the beginning there was no collision there was no collision there There was no collision with John O 'Keefe.

48:55There was no collision. There was no collision.

49:04There was no collision. There was no collision. There was no collision. And then he goes into detail throughout that all had to be excised and still flow. whoa, these are fights that we were made to endure that we shouldn't have. And it was something like this multiple times a day of this magnitude. So I think long, long answer to your question about the next five years. I, even just for therapeutic reasons, I want people who care to know to know everything that happened.

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51:38you're still fighting so you had the two trials but now there's a civil fight there's multiple civil fights how much is that going to cost my biggest expense is logistics so because the amount of work required is just so vast I mean it took three different firms Yannetty DLA Piper where Bob was from and Worksman Jackson for two trials we didn't even make it through the first time around we had to do it again. And now I currently have three civil trials happening. I have the O 'Keefe wrongful death suit in Plymouth County, Massachusetts. I have my suit against Canton PD and Massachusetts State Police in Bristol County, Massachusetts, both state.

52:26And now I have the federal with the Alberts, McCabes, Higgins, Proctor, Tully, and Buknik. So that's three. Alan is still one of my attorneys. I am not currently compensating Alan, but I do pay for all the travel and logistics. I have paid modestly so far, she and Finney, but the amount of work they've done on a billable hour rate is already astronomical. I mean, they're doing something robust for my case as I sit here right now. They're amazing. And there's three of them. And they're all just like Alan's firm. They're all complimentary. They work together for a reason because they're good together.

53:14The worst is over. I am used to fighting now. if any party to this thinks this is inflicting pain on me um you don't understand what i've been through and what i've survived and what i can handle and you don't understand what's what's going on and what what more is about to be revealed i mean we were hamstrung in our opinion badly at trial. There's more evidence and there's more of a story to tell. And it has to be done. We have to finish this. It's why Alan is still involved. It's why Damon, who was, he was my parents' attorney throughout the last year, but it's why Damon wants to be a part of this civil suit as well.

54:09But we have a lot, we have a lot more to do. And luckily, we know we know this case so well. So many of us know it so well. It's just a matter of understanding civil law and how this all has to play out. And it's even more tedious than the criminal court. And I know you have a civil fund set up. I'm going to leave that in the description for people to support. I think it's interesting because there is kind of this narrative that like you got a book deal. You have all this money from the documentary, which we're finding out is not true. You sold your house. We do know that's true. You lost years of your life that you could have been working.

54:51You lost your careers. You used up your savings. You cashed out on your retirement. You sold your treadmill? I did saw, who said that? It was in an interview. Did I say that? Yeah. Oh, I didn't see that. I did saw my treadmill. Um, I, my, I think I gave it to my neighbor. Did my neighbor take my treadmill? Yeah. I saw it to my neighbor. Um, my neighbors were, were lovely. Um, they're a young family and they had a baby in the middle of all this. It was funny because, um, I would not like a creep, but I, I would watch them out the window. My bedroom faced their house and I would hear the little baby that was born.

55:31I want to say their baby was born in the winter of 2022. I would hear the baby outside and think, what a juxtaposition that I'm going through this in this house. And they're the, and they're so lovely. My neighbors, my old neighbors, and they're starting this family. And when they bought the house, I don't even think they were married yet. And they're, they're growing. The, the firstborn's getting bigger and it didn't make me sad. It was like, life is always starting fresh and life is, it's not always happy. It won't always be happy for them, but it is, there are always, there's always another moment of happiness, even if there's, there's tragedy in it.

56:08But, um, um, yeah, I've, I have not made anything. Um, not, not a dime. I don't have a movie. I don't have a book. When I do, you'll know. And there are there are obstacles even to that. A book, I my understanding is we if we are authors, we could be given some some to write the book, almost as if we were taking a sabbatical to write this book with a movie. What I'm learning is someone like me who would be selling her life rights for the movie, I wouldn't really be able to monetize that until the movie is actually in production, that my rights are actually, it's like a stock option. They're, they're actually going to be, the rights will actually be exercised.

56:57So no, I live, I love my parents. Um, but I, I don't know that the three of us need to live together until the end of time. I'd love to live with them in a bigger house with what we can spread out. Um, but no, obviously if I were making millions or even hundreds of thousands of dollars, um, ask the people who live on country Hill drive in North Titan, uh, that's, that's where I live and I'm lucky I have them and I feel safe and I'm getting, I'm lucky I can enjoy my parents at this age and we don't have this trial over our heads anymore. But no, I'd like to be I'd like to be doing things. I'd like to regain some more strength.

57:39Physically, I'd like to, I don't know that I like to travel right now. But I'd like to be somewhere with the people I love. And I haven't been able to because I don't have the resources. I have had some very generous people help me in small ways, and not so small ways, celebrate. I've had people open their homes to me and, uh, and my family and really enjoy, enjoy life for, for a few moments. People that owed me nothing. And, um, uh, I've gotten a lot of offers I haven't taken, but, um, and I've got a lot of work to do. So wherever I go, I can't really just unplug, but I don't, I haven't made any money.

58:28I haven't made any, If you can find an example, if someone has a receipt, by all means, and I'll answer to it.

58:35Karen Read:They can send it to you, and I will answer to that. Speaking of money and movies, you're not making any money from the Amazon Prime movie with Elizabeth Banks? Is it Amazon Prime? Elizabeth Banks, I thought, was Hulu. Oh, Hulu. I have nothing to do with that. Okay. So I am not making any money. I will not be making any money from that. The new Lifetime movie. so I just heard about that yesterday I refreshed my news feed and I saw the announcement from lifetime and it's funny um the actress I actually saw a still apparently this is done they they filmed this and it's coming out in January is I think what I read it's on their docket for January and the actress Katie Cassidy her father David Cassidy he was on a show in the 70s called the Partridge Family and it was a band have you heard of the Partridge Family it was like in the Brady Bunch era um like bell bottoms and kind of poppy catchy music and it was they were a band and they they also had a tv show and he was like a teenage heartthrob they they used to call him and he had a brother I think a half brother Sean Cassidy who was also in a band in the late 70s they were in a Broadway play where they played brothers separated at birth and one went one side of the tracks and one went the other in London and they reconnected unbeknownst to them and became best friends and then found out they were actual brothers and it was an amazing musical it was in 1995 that I saw this play with my family and David Cassidy was a star and I was talking to my dad last night and I said who would have thought I was 15 in 1995 who would have thought that we're in this little it's called the Music Box Theater right off Broadway in in Midtown Manhattan who would have thought that that I guess David Cassidy was maybe in his 40s at the time that his daughter would play me in a movie um so I feel some kinship I've seen her in a remake of nightmare on elm street that is the best version i've seen of that movie if you're into horror movies it's good that's all i know about i had nothing i didn't even know it was happening i will not be seeing any i'd like if they want to send me some money i'll yeah gladly take it but i i didn't know anything you hear that lifetime if this is getting the story out um get get it out yeah it's compelling it's a moment in in history i don't blame these people for making these movies But I will say I have gone through a lot of pain and lost a lot.

1:01:16And you're telling my story to make money and you're not involving me. How much will people take on my coattails and not show any economical appreciation? so I wish these people luck in their endeavors but um I I hope they know what I've lost for them to tell this story I know that you guys are working on the YouTube show but if we were to end it on a lighter note if I were to summon you with a magical spell you have to pick five things or objects that speak to you what would you pick five things or objects that speak to me well one easy one would be rosary beads i'm religious i don't pray as much as i should pray i should be praying many times a day and i do not but when i was in jail both times i prayed the rosary without my rosary beads over and over actually used it to help myself keep time because i know it takes me 15 minutes i have many i have a friend who actually gave me rosary beads that were made with yellow roses that were on John's casket because I was not at John's funeral but she grabbed a handful of petals and made me rosary beads so those are very precious to me I had someone um this is something that was just recently it's not in my possession but it means something to me and I'd like to get my own copy Alan had a renowned courtroom artist in Los Angeles I believe she's retired now.

1:02:58She just goes by the first name Mona. She did a courtroom sketch, which is fascinating. It's like, looks like a mix of watercolor and like pencil. And it's Alan in great detail. It's very small. It's Alan. My parents are behind him. Jen McKay, Brian Albert and Colin Albert. It's during closing argument are in, are in the O 'Keefe's gallery. And I'm turning around looking at Alan and it was amazing. I asked Alan if we can please commission her to do one that, that I can keep. I've gotten like so many photos as a photo that someone took in the courtroom. There's two. It's not really the photo, but it's that moment that I would never remember with the clarity without the photo.

1:03:41But there's several of me kissing my dad that they're just perfect. And then there's one hugging my parents. I know a gentleman named Greg Durr, D-E-R-R is a photographer. I think he's just part of the Associated Press or he works for the Boston Globe, but he's really commemorated some amazing moments. But there's one where I'm hugging my parents after the verdict and I, I, my hair is kind of pulled tight and I've got my, and I, my fists are like this and I'm hugging and I just know exactly, I know exactly how I felt. There's a couple of photos of my dad and me that don't even, I kissed him every day and my mom.

1:04:20So I, I don't remember specific that moment, but hugging them after the verdict, I remember. Other than that, there aren't many objects that mean much to me. I've learned to become more transient, less sentimental through this process because, I mean, I had a house that was big for me that I filled with things that I collected and are. And luckily I gave a lot of it to a cousin of mine who I know is going to look after it. And I actually hope he keeps it all because I love him. But I'm not too attached really to anything physically anymore. When your freedom is on the line, none of this material stuff, you could lose it all.

1:05:06And it all has a monetary value. My treadmill had a, granted it was not used very much, but none of it means anything. So I don't have too many objects. There's photos. I don't even know if those count, but I don't have too many physical objects

1:05:22Karen Read:that mean all that much to me. No, but those are like the best ones, the ones you just said. I really hope, don't listen to those people. I really hope that we hear a lot more from you talking about your own case yourself. We're going to look forward to the YouTube show. I think it's going to hopefully come out around the time this comes out, hopefully. We are going to be having a YouTube channel launch Hopefully in January, 2026, the read files, the read files, the read files. And that'll be, that'll be Alan Jackson. Nick Rocco is going to host and, and, and I'll be there on the read. Okay. And that's the wrap.

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