Teen Boy’s Snapchat & Party Pic Reveal His Secret Connection To Karen Read Murder Case-Did He Do It?

In short

Podcast Episode Summary: Rotten Mango - "Teen Boy’s Snapchat & Party Pic Reveal His Secret Connection To Karen Read Murder Case-Did He Do It?"

Episode Overview In this episode of *Rotten Mango*, the investigation of the mysterious death of John O'Keefe is explored. The focus is on the connections between John O'Keefe's girlfriend, Karen Read, and Colin Albert, the son of a prominent local family. As details about that fateful night unfold, the episode delves into possible motives, witness testimonies, and the complexities of small-town dynamics.

Key Characters

John O’Keefe: A Boston police officer found dead outside a friend's house.
Karen Read: John’s girlfriend, charged with his murder despite claiming innocence.
Colin Albert: A teenager from a powerful family, whose presence at the scene comes into question.
Brian Albert & Brian Higgins: Police officers and family friends; their testimonies become pivotal to the case.

Timeline of Events

January 28-29, 2022: The night of John O'Keefe's death.
January 29, 2022: Karen Read is frantic after John does not return home. She calls friends to help locate him.

Episode Highlights

The Mystery of the Night

Initial Investigation: John O’Keefe is found dead outside 34 Fairview, with witnesses claiming he never entered the house.
Karen’s Frantic Search: After failing to find John, Karen calls two friends, expressing concern.

Colin Albert's Involvement

Discovery of Colin's Presence: After Karen's arrest, a private investigator reveals Colin was at the party, contradicting earlier statements from witnesses.
Scraped Knuckles: Colin's injuries raise suspicions about his involvement in John’s death.

Witness Testimonies and Allegiances

Manipulation and Cover-ups: The episode suggests that witnesses have conflicting accounts, implying a cover-up to protect Colin and the Albert family.
Relationship Dynamics: Tensions between the friends and families are highlighted, suggesting deeper motives behind the lies.

Mysterious Circumstances

Jeep Theory: A dark SUV belonging to Colin's family is identified, leading to speculation that it may have been involved in John's death.
Presence of a Snowplow: Some theorize that John could have been hit by a snowplow instead of Karen’s car.

Key Concepts

Family Influence: The power of local prominent families in shaping narratives and testimonies.
Complicity in Cover-ups: How relationships can lead to witness tampering and altered testimonies.
Media Narratives: The impact of public perception and social media commentary on the case.

Repeated Themes

Evasive Testimonies: Many witnesses struggle to provide clear answers, leading to skepticism about their validity.
Jealousy and Motive: The episode explores how jealousy among friends and romantic interests may play into the dynamics of the case.

Conclusion The investigation into John O'Keefe's death reveals a tangled web of relationships, motives, and possible cover-ups. With Karen facing serious charges, the episode leaves listeners questioning the integrity of the investigation and the true nature of the events surrounding that fateful night.

Next Steps

Part Three and Four: The series continues to uncover more details, deepening the intrigue surrounding the murder case and the implications of law enforcement in small-town dynamics.

Final Thoughts The episode illustrates the complexities of human relationships intertwined with crime, emphasizing the psychological aspects and societal implications of such a case. As it delves deeper into the investigation, it raises questions about justice, truth, and the power of community ties.

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Transcript

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0:01If you want something to disappear forever, you're gonna throw it in the trash at a military base. And it kind of makes sense. Military trash is very different from regular civilian trash. Each U.S. military base, they handle their waste systems very differently. Some overseas bases, they have burn pits where they get their daily trash. Some bases, they have enough trash to fill two and a half single family homes every single day. Sometimes it's filled with medical waste, chemicals, paints, plastic, food, human feces. They just round it up into a pile in the middle of nowhere pour jet fuel into it and light it on fire potentially giving everyone within like a few mile radius lifelong complications like asthma if not just like straight up lung disease they don't do that on u.s soil most of the time here there are waste systems in place and usually there are daily pickups of trash at military bases and they get taken to a very specific military landfill where they are then separated and then eventually some of the trash does end up with civilian trash But let's say you have your entire life belongings of sentimental value, your life savings, your passport in a little baggie that someone accidentally trashes at a military base.

1:17Your odds of finding that are slim to none. I mean, you likely can't even voluntarily search these military landfills. They have controlled access limited to authorized personnel only. even if the trash is still sitting at the bottom of the dumpster on the military base you would need a federal search warrant to go in and look for it which is perfect for Brian to take his phone with all of his text messages and call logs and then his sim card that he breaks in half he takes those two things and he tosses them into the trash at a military base that way nobody will ever be able to search his phone for anything that they might want and there's a lot on that phone that people want because brian was there the night that john o 'keefe mysteriously died in the front lawn of 34 fairview brian albert brian higgins brian higgins which we haven't talked about at all no okay january 29th 2022 john o 'keefe a boston police officer is found outside on the front lawn of another boston cop's house brian albert now the night before everyone's having a gathering there.

2:26John O 'Keefe was driven there by his girlfriend Karen Reed and that's all we know. Everything else is up for debate. Everyone inside the house states that John O 'Keefe never came inside. They didn't even know that he was deceased in the front lawn until the next morning. In fact, even though there were police cruisers, ambulances, fire trucks, they didn't even know that. They were asleep. Everyone in the house at the time of the party says they never saw John John O 'Keefe come inside. John's girlfriend, Karen Reed, will say she saw him walk inside to make sure that they're welcome and he never walked back out.

3:00But this is not Brian Albert that's trashing his phone. This is one of Brian Albert's best friends. Another Brian, Brian Higgins, a federal ATF agent. ATF? Alcohol, tobacco, and firearms. Federal agent. So he works with the feds? Yes, but it doesn't necessarily mean that he's like a higher rank. It's just a different jurisdiction. I mean, some law enforcement think that anyone with the feds are higher in rank, but it really depends. Right, but they don't work directly together at all. They're just friends. Sometimes they'll have mini projects together, but not directly. Sometimes they'll work at the same police station because a lot of federal agents will have floating offices and they'll have like their own little desk at a police station because there's not a federal office in every town.

3:45Now, this Brian Higgins wanted John O 'Keefe to come over that night. This is also the man who was interested in dating Karen Reed. In fact, the two, Brian Higgins and Karen Reed, shared a kiss at John's house. And ATF agent Brian tells Karen that he wants the real deal. And this is all before Karen Reed ghosts Brian Higgins. he was there the night of the party and now he's throwing away his phone at a military base what exactly is brian higgins hiding and does he have the strongest motive to want john o 'keefe dead so that he can have karen reed

4:46We would like to thank today's sponsors who have made it possible for Rotten Mango to support the Dana-Farber Cancer Institute in Boston, Massachusetts. They're a globally known cancer research center that also provides support for patients and families similar to John O 'Keefe's sister who had since passed away from brain cancer. This episode's partnerships have also made it possible to support Rotten Mango's growing team and we'd also like to thank you guys for your continued support as we work on our mission to be worthy advocates. As always, full show notes are available at rottenmanglepodcast.com.

5:13There are references of Driving Under the Influence, alleged physical assault. Please watch at your own discretion. This episode is part two of the four-part series spanning both of Karen Reed's trials. Episode one is up now, and I'd highly recommend going to watch that. It kind of establishes the lay of the land. And I know that every single episode is just gonna be a deeper layer of suspicion. So it's like, okay, everything you thought we knew in episode one, it actually gets deeper and darker in episode two. Even though we're covering some of the same territory, the way that people are talking about specific things, it's very fascinating.

5:46The way that these witnesses testify. So if you've seen it or you're coming from that episode, you may notice that a few more people have been added to the wall. We're going to be adding more people as we get deeper into this case. I just don't want to overload you with faces right now. Before we get into the quick recap, in order to cover the vast span of both trials. So there were two trials for Karen Reed. The Commonwealth of Massachusetts versus Karen Reed. There was one trial, ended in a mistrial, and then a second trial. In order to cover both, many quotes and statements from testimony and or opening closing statements have been shortened and condensed for brevity.

6:18If you feel like someone that should be on the wall isn't on the wall yet, it's because I've got a system for it. It's either coming in the next episode or the last one, which is going to be part four. Any speculations, accusations, and allegations discussed are representative of netizen theories that you can find publicly online. We maintain that all individuals are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law Most importantly, I do want to be very clear that John O 'Keefe ultimately lost his life Our team in no way shape or form are purposely trying to shift importance off of his death Rather, and I think quite frankly, please be aware that John not being the primary focus of this case as a whole Is more of a reflection of how this case has been handled and presented by the authorities involved And not the way that we were researching this case So with that being said, let's get into the brief recap January 29th, 2022, Karen Reed calls two people.

7:08The first one is Jen McCabe and the second one is Carrie Roberts. And she tells them John O 'Keefe, her boyfriend of two years, has not come home last night. And she's freaking out. It's like five in the morning. They were getting drunk last night at a bar. They were all hanging out with friends. Jen was there. Carrie was not. And she's freaking out. She doesn't know what to do. She calls them. They start searching for John. They go back to John's house. They're searching here and there. Karen is allegedly a mess the entire time. She's screaming. She's frantic. She's hysterical. She keeps repeating the same things.

7:38Some people say that she was saying things like, could I have hit him? Other people are saying she said I hit him like a declaration, a confession of sorts. Eventually, they make it back to 34 Fairview Road. This is a very important address. It's a single family home owned by none other than Brian Albert and his wife, Nicole Albert, who also happens to be Jen McCabe's sister. So they're blood relatives. This is Jen McCabe's brother-in-law. They were all going to his house after the bar last night, Karen and John included. So John is in Karen's car. They roll up to the house. Karen says, hey, we get to the house.

8:17We've never been here before. We had to call Jen to get instructions to even get here. And once we get here, it doesn't look that welcoming. And like, are you sure we're invited? She asks John to go inside to check and make sure everything is good. She stays in her car. John goes inside. She's saying she saw him walk towards the front door and then he never comes outside. She's getting agitated. Her stomach hurts. She's not feeling well. She doesn't know any of these people. John knows them because he's a Boston cop. Brian Albert's a Boston cop. They're all cops. Karen, she's an asset manager.

8:50She's not a part of this cop world. And so she decides, I'm just going to leave him because he's kind of making me mad. He hasn't checked up on me. He hasn't opened the door and said, come in. He hasn't texted me. So as she's driving home, she leaves a series of very angry voicemails calling John O 'Keefe a pervert, telling him to go fuck himself, telling him that he's a loser, telling him that she's going to leave his niece and nephew, who he has custody over, home alone and she's going to go back to her own place because she's over this. She does not indeed do any of that. She goes back to John's house where John's niece is sleeping and she falls asleep on the couch and wakes up at four and he's still not home.

9:29She calls Jen McCabe and she says, hey, John's not home. Jen McCabe tells her something along the lines of, what are you talking about? He never came to 34 Fairview. So Karen naturally starts freaking out, calls John's childhood best friend who he also went to prom with, Carrie Roberts, and they go on like a little early morning search party through a blizzard. This is blizzard conditions at this point. It wasn't last night when they got to 34 Fairview, but it is this morning. They start driving all over the place and Carrie and Jen say, Karen's weird. As they're driving back to 34 Fairview, they say that Karen just starts screaming, I see him, I see him.

10:11She's kicking at the door to get out. She runs outside into the snow onto to the front lawn of Brian Albert's house and they just see a mound of snow. They get out the car, they say they move the snow off, and there is John O 'Keefe laying in the snow. Paramedics are called to the scene, police officers are called to the scene, and it becomes this whole ordeal of initially people thought, well people didn't really know what to think. They just knew that a police officer was found deceased in front of the lawn of another Boston cop and it doesn't make any sense. He's got some injuries to his head and his arms that don't make any sense.

10:45It doesn't make sense how he ended up in the front lawn. Did he go in the house? Did he not go in the house? That's the biggest debate. When law enforcement officers, they start interviewing witnesses that were inside the house, they all say John O 'Keefe never came in the house. So that must mean that Karen is the last person that knows what happened to John, right? Well, she's saying, no, he went into the house. now who are we to believe in this situation you would think maybe it's numbers maybe it's all the people in the house there's a handful of them versus just karen right you would initially think that however everyone in this town is connected all these investigating officers here in this dark blue color they're all somehow friendly with the albert family the albert family is the most well-connected family in the little town of canton massachusetts his brother kevin albert is a canton police detective.

11:37His other brother, Chris Albert, is one of five Canton selectmen who oversee the entire Canton Police Department. Then the state troopers. So there's many different law enforcement agencies that get involved. The state troopers, they're not Canton PD. They're Massachusetts State Police, right? However, they are all somehow connected to Julie Albert, who's Chris Albert's wife. So they're all interwoven, interconnected. Everybody went to high school with one another. Everybody's kids play on the same baseball team together. Everybody is friends with everybody except for Karen. Karen is not friends with any of these people.

12:15And all of these people have now decided that Karen ran over John O 'Keefe in the front lawn of another Boston cop's home, drove home leaving angry voicemails, and left her boyfriend of two years to die on the lawn. That is the theory. but is that really what happened? February 26, 2022. So this is almost nearly exactly a month after John O 'Keefe has passed. At this point, Karen has been arrested, released on bail. So there's a lot developing but there is this picture taken of three guys at a bar and the only one that really matters is the guy in the middle and these these guys, I don't even know if I can call them guys, they look incredibly young.

12:55They look like boys. Now the guy in the middle, he's got a black baseball cap on backwards he's got both of his arms around his friends they look they look like fat boys and his right hand if you look at his right hand his right knuckles are just bright red pink knuckles are pink knuckles are pink like it's injured yeah what how would your knuckles get pink like you punch something right and you got to punch something very hard for them to stay pink right yeah now that guy in the middle is none other than 17 year old colin albert son 17 17 son of chris albert and julie albert so this is the nephew of brian albert brian and chris are brothers uh-huh so this is the nephew of brian and nicole albert and netizens think that this 17 year old was the one that killed John O 'Keefe that night and Karen's attorneys seem to think so too because defense attorney Alan Jackson he gets up on the podium and he starts asking Colin on the stand because Colin is called to testify by the government what happened to your knuckles in this picture Colin is sitting on the witness stand he looks like a like a regular fraternity brother but he's dressed in a collared shirt with a sweater on top.

14:18It's giving defendant, but he's on the witness stand. I was at a party, a house party my senior year, and I remember it being icy outside, and it was kind of like a steep hill of a driveway, and I was walking up the driveway. So he's walking up an icy driveway, and I slipped down the driveway. I tried to catch myself, but I had something in my left hand, so I tried to brace myself with my right hand, but I ended up landing straight on my knuckle. So he's slipping on the ice and he lands on his knuckle. That's a crazy story. Like this. And your reaction is the reaction of everyone, including Alan Jackson, who says, according to you, you fell on ice and injured your knuckles, as we just saw in the photograph, just across the top of your knuckles.

15:05Correct. So you fell onto what? Pavement? Asphalt? Yeah. and you braced yourself when you felt your entire body weight by putting your right hand down in a fist and you injured your right fist just the top of your knuckles on your right fist when you fell down correct at this point alan jackson is known for being um a pretty aggressive cross examiner during all of these trials because he will make a lot of comments that he's not allowed to make and the judge will keep having the judge auntie bev will keep having to strike his comments because at this point his story is so ridiculous Alan Jackson hits him with a seriously that's his question seriously you fell your entire body weight on your right fist and you just injured the top portion of your knuckles you didn't break a finger you didn't break a knuckle you didn't sprain your wrist nothing correct you ever been in a fight before the defense shows yet another photo, there is a picture of Colin with his arm around another person and his knuckles are scratched up again.

16:11And it's always just the right hand. So it's not the left and the right, it's just his right hand. And that picture was apparently taken just a few days after John's death. So there's a picture taken a few days after John's death where his knuckles are pink and then another one taken a month after where his knuckles are pink. Why are his knuckles injured and just on his right hand? Now, why is this relevant? That's what everyone's trying to figure out because initially when everyone inside the house during this little blizzard party January 29th 2022 nobody mentions Colin being inside that house he is never mentioned not once by any of the party goers well actually one party goer this one right here Julie Nagel friend of birthday boy Brian Albert Jr., Julie Nagel does mention to State Trooper Proctor that Colin was in the house that night.

17:08You know what State Trooper Proctor does? He omits that from his initial reports. So it seems like every single person involved does not want Colin to be at the house. That is crazy. So how did we find out Julie said that? Karen ends up hiring a private investigator and they start going door to door to try and see if there's absolutely anyone who saw or heard absolutely anything. And this is when a local mentions. So his daughter allegedly dated Colin Albert at one point, and she was talking about how he was there. He was there at 34 Fairview that night. And so Karen is like, that's actually crazy because nobody puts him there at all, ever.

17:52And is that, you know, the private investigator, is that information usable in court or is that just their own little i think it came out before the trial happened so eventually everyone was like oh yeah yeah he was there yeah i see so when everyone testifies now they're like yeah he was there but he left exactly at 12 10 a.m which is before john o 'keefe even gets to the house so there's a lot that people have to say about colin albert but it is confirmed he was there the night that john o 'keefe died so why is everyone leaving him out of the initial witness list. Like, is that intentional? And that also doesn't explain how in 2023, so this is a year after John's passing, during a federal grand jury, Colin shows up.

18:37He's forced to be there. He's forced to testify. And the person asking questions notices that his knuckles, specifically his right hand knuckles, are scraped up. Still? So it seems like another injury just to his right hand. Now, everybody's wondering, how often does this little kid get into fights and did he get into a fight with john the night that john died is he the one that everyone here all the mcalberts are trying to protect or are they trying to protect brian higgins was colin albert the only person that everyone's omitting or yes and there is an invisible car with brian higgins so there's a lot happening with these two and people have different theories some people think that mick alberts are protecting brian higgins some people think the mick alberts are protecting colin some people think it's a combination of both okay because there is a picture of colin with swollen knuckles but there's also a picture of brian higgins stopping by the canton police department right after leaving the party he leaves 34 fairview road he's off duty he's drunk and he drives to canton police department he's an atf agent but he's got an office at the Canton Police Department because his best friend is the chief of the Canton Police.

19:53So middle of the night. Yeah. He went into the office for what? One in the morning. He goes into the office. He says he's going in there to move his cars, but he spends quite a bit of time in the police station. And on top of that, there is some CCTV footage that is released and some people have zoomed in and they believe that his knuckles look a little swollen and red. What? Okay. There is this reality show. It's a TV series called Boston's Finest. It lasted two seasons. It's about Boston police officers. Now, I'm just going to give you a quick recap of all the different law enforcement agencies investigating and or involved in this.

20:28So you've got Boston police, which is John O 'Keefe was a Boston police officer. And then Brian Albert is part of Boston PD. He is the head of the fugitive unit, or he was. And then you've got the Canton police. This all happens in the town of Canton. So they commute to work in Boston, but this is 30 minutes away in Canton. So the chief of police is Kenneth. And then a lot of these people in dark blue, so Sean Good, Paul Gallagher, Michael Link, these are all Canton police officers as well as Kevin Albert. And then you've got the Massachusetts State Police. So you went from local town, then you got big city of Boston, and then now you got the state of Massachusetts.

21:09You have these three state troopers, Tully, Buchanek, and Proctor. Proctor. Do you remember him from part one? No nudes Proctor. Exactly. Okay, so these are the three. And then you've got a fourth agency, the feds. The FBI are investigating the investigation into John O 'Keefe's death. They're not even just investigating John O 'Keefe's death. They're investigating the investigation into his death because all these people are shady. Every single one here, maybe not the people in the white backgrounds, but all the dark blue wall of shame at this point and we're going to get more in depth in part three because the way that these people are connected is criminal and then the dark blue background are the ones that's currently working on the case and the light blues are the official officers that's not investigating the case but they are involved in the case right yes so the dark blue are investigating officers now this show is kind of like a documentary it's like a day in my life as a boston cop i mean with a lot more background music.

22:13It's filmed really well and featured on there consistently is Brian Albert, a much younger Brian Albert. He is the owner of 34 Fairview. Boston Cop had a fugitive unit. In the show, he says a lot of really intense things. Like he gives a lot of quippy one-liners, violent felons. They will do just about anything to get away. Some are going to try to run. Some are going to try to hide. Sometimes it's diving out windows. They're going to do whatever they can to avoid capture. Throughout season one, you see Brian Albert trying to lead his team and make sure they're not in trouble. And he says about conducting search warrants in people's homes, it's one of the most dangerous things you can do is go into somebody else's house.

22:53He says, the person you're looking for, that's their castle. If they wanted to assault you, they know the places to hide. Sometimes you take a deep breath, you stick your head in there and just hope that you don't hear a pop. They explain that finding fugitives is very meticulous work. I mean, you're looking for people that other cops couldn't find. He says we're the unit that gets called when somebody's wanted for a serious crime, mostly violent crimes, and they're on the run. That's our specialty. That's the purpose of our unit, and we do a pretty good job at it. It's not easy, but there's a method to the madness, and he gives a few tips throughout the show.

23:26So in the show, Brian Albert states, the rule is simple. You follow the love interest. Brian Higgins, aka A. A. T. F. Brian. He's a federal agent. He's a cop, too. So if we do a cop headcount at this point, there's a lot. And not including the investigating ones. You've got Brian Albert, besties with Brian Higgins. So they're just friends, close friends. Yeah, they're just close friends. They're like drinking buddies. Okay. And so you've got these two. Then you've got John O 'Keefe, Chris Albert, Kevin Albert. There's a lot of cop connections. this guy is a federal agent in the alcohol tobacco firearms and explosives it feels like nobody really knows what an atf agent does some say that they take down massive gun running organizations others say they say they do that but they don't actually do anything so they're basically a federal gang agency is what they say um you can interpret that however you want some people interpret that as they take down gangs because gangs are often, you know, they typically have violent firearms and other weapons in their possession or they're a gang of agents and they basically just shoot dogs.

24:39There have been numerous incidents where pet dogs have been injured or shot and killed during ATF raids and do you remember Waco? ATF had a 51-day standoff with a cult in Waco, Texas and ultimately it ended with 70 people dying, including children, and some of the first shots fired by ATF were aimed at the pet dogs in the compound. And it's becoming like this running joke in law enforcement communities, apparently, when the ATF comes hydrodogs. Now, ATF Bryan is stationed in Canton, but he's a federal agent. He does not work for Canton PD, does not work for Boston PD or with the state troopers.

25:16He is familiar with a lot of them, though. Like he's friends with all these guys. These are the people that he hangs out with because he lives in Canton. And he also knows John O 'Keefe. They've known each other for maybe a year. I mean, they've never really worked together, but they run in the same circles. They go to the same bars. That's how they've met. Now, I have no idea how friendship works in this small town because ATF Bryan says that he wasn't that close to John, but exactly two weeks before John's death, ATF Bryan is over at John O 'Keefe's house watching a Patriots game. There's even text messages from that night where John and ATF Bryan are texting.

25:53You know, John is like, was it really necessary to introduce Hennessy XO? ATF Bryan is like, was I really playing video games? John says, I blame Karen. Please tell me I didn't break your nephew's video game. If I did, I will replace it. Did I throw a controller or some shit? I don't think so. Which makes it sound like they had a good night. Just boys watching sports, getting drunk, breaking things. But it's also the day that ATF Brian, Higgins, and Karen kiss behind John O 'Keefe's back. So exactly two weeks before John O 'Keefe's passing, they share a kiss inside John's house. How did we find out about that?

26:34He tells us. In court? Oh, yeah. So January 12th, 2022. This is... Like two weeks before, right? Yeah, like two and a half weeks before John O 'Keefe's passing at around 8.27 p.m. He gets a text message. Brian Higgins gets a text message from a random number. The text reads, hey, Brian, it's Weed Whacker. He texts back question mark. What do you mean, Weed Whacker? But ATF Brian is testifying. I mean, I kind of knew who it was because that was my nickname for her. Karen Reed. I mean, he says it's a funny story. He was driving around in his work car. So all the windows are tinted. And he sees Karen outside using a weed whacker.

27:15It's like a little machine that cuts the weeds. And he honks at her and she flicks him off. She has no clue who it is. It's just like a random person honking at her. So he drives back around. He U-turns to be like, oh, wait, hey, Karen. I'm, you know, John's friend, Brian, ATF Brian. I didn't mean to, like, freak you out. But she starts screaming at the car, not knowing it's ATF Brian. And she says, get the fuck away from me. My husband's a Boston cop. ATF Brian rolls the window all the way down. And that's when she's like, oh, okay. Never mind. You're John's friend. I didn't know. This was a while ago?

27:48Yes. Okay. So that is why she gets the funny nickname of Weed Whacker. And she texts him, hey, Brian, it's Weed Whacker. He responds, question mark. And I will say that every single text message in this thread is read out loud by Brian Higgins, who has a very strong Boston accent. and it's just like the it's a very interesting combination of his very seriousness and his red face but also the nature of the text messages are uncomfortable very uncomfortable because i don't know why they text like teenage kids he texts a picture of a smirnoff screwdriver it's an alcoholic beverage and then capital y-o yo there's no response and the next day atf brian text Karen.

28:34Did you try these Smirnoff screwdrivers? I stopped at the Hilly, which is a local restaurant, for one last night. Haha, how did you get my digits? Karen says, Melissa. Haha, I thought you creeped John's phone. Haha. No way. And she does a girl with the crossed arms emoji. I was the last person in Greater Canton who didn't have your number. I think even Carrie has it. Side note, not Carrie Roberts, a different Carrie. And he's like, what? I just don't give out my personal number to anyone how would carrie have my number i don't know melissa had it eventually they start talking back about the nickname and she says you know i do prefer weed whacker he says that's the thing about nicknames you don't have a say i know they need to happen organically i'm the queen of nicknames wait so they met i'm assuming months ago they met months ago at a bar through john o 'keefe so john o 'keefe and atf brian run in the same circles and john o 'keefe would introduce karen to all of his friends.

29:30And so Karen's not really part of this cop world. It's through John O 'Keefe that she meets all these people. Yeah, yeah. And one day he drove by, beep beep. They talked, I'm assuming. Soon after, Karen text him. And they sound flirtatious? Very flirtatious. Okay. Karen just changes the topic abruptly. We were tossing around the idea of a short vacay with another couple. Wanted to see if you were game. Vacation where? I was just gonna rent a beach house in Fort Lauderdale. Something quick and easy. Hmm. And the queen of vacays too. Always a good time. He's like, I'm going to Nashville next month, 19th to the 21st for a benefit.

30:07One of our guys got shot in the head. You guys should come. It's just like a crazy text message to send. Later on January 13th, Karen sends a picture of a guy struggling to use a weed whacker and texts ATF Brian, you're not a creep. And he says, nope, you're kind of a loner, which I used to be. no not really i have tons of buddies but i only let a handful of friends in that i'm tight with so you think you've got me all figured out karen says yeah i said loner not loser i assume you know a lot of people you can never really figure anyone out completely your dad died when you were young question mark question mark he died in march of 2020 i'm so not a loser you won't figure me out lol no one's a loser i just didn't mean loner to imply friendless i'm sorry that sounds recent it wasn't covid was it cancer i know you date girls who don't lock the house behind them and you're private and observant and then she says i'm sorry what kind so they're having like simultaneous conversations talking about his dad's passing but also talking about brian's dating habits lung brain kidney pelvis how did you know all those things you're funny

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31:22Text messages are a lot Yikes, wow, that's rough Jesus, I'm sorry We chat a lot at the hillside Don't be sorry, life is hard sometimes I always figure it out Who chats? Life is hard, but losing people is the hardest So, I'm sorry We chat That's all you got? We chat? Sure, I mean, you're from Brockton, spit it out You and I chatted about the girl who kept forgetting to lock the door Oh, she's been out of play for like three months now. And so they're like having this flirtation of talking about people that are, quote, out of rotation in ATF Bryan's circle of girls. Yeah. Yeah. And ATF Bryan finally tells her that he got a Saturday invite from John O 'Keefe to come to John O 'Keefe's house that Saturday to watch the Patriots game.

32:11Karen is like, did you say yes? Not yet. What did you say, Mr. Elusive? No, I don't want to intrude on your couples night. Haha, I'm shy. We prefer to hang out with non-couples. Bob Gallery is probably coming too, solo. We'll probably play cards or something at one point. So I'm inviting you. Haha. Later, Karen texts him. John said, quote, Brian's being wishy-washy. Haha, did you tell him you texted me? No. ATF Brian gives a thumbs up. And this is when we head into very, um, I would say. okay so karen is a little sensitive to the word affair because she's saying you know i'm not married john o 'keefe's not married we're not married it's not really an affair and she also says that john o 'keefe was allegedly flirting with other girls too so she feels like it's it's affair is a strong word but we do get into like that emotional cheating territory where she says well don't be so anti-couple most couples don't even like each other he says name a few name a few.

33:14I don't know all of them, but they all want to hang out with single people. Later in the messages, it seems like this might be when he comes over for the Patriots game because ATF Brian texts Karen foul ball. She texts him, you stink. He says, you suck and you're double trouble. She responds, you're hot. Are you serious or are you messing with me? No, I'm serious. feeling is mutual is that bad so this is brian he's like i also feel like you're so hot is that bad because i'm friends with john o 'keefe how long have you thought about that and she's like are you okay driving you don't want to just stay here so karen is offering for brian to stay at john o 'keefe's house with them he's not drunk right yeah i'm fine i have an office at the police station you didn't answer the question she says i'd rather you stay here now atf brian testifies on the stand that as he's leaving John O 'Keefe's house that night, he says goodbye to John and John might have gone and used the restroom or something.

34:15He's not entirely sure. But he says, as we were walking out, the defendant planted a kiss on me. He's asked by the prosecution, Lally, how did she kiss you? Not like a friend. He says it was lip to lip like a romantic kiss. ATF Bryan says he was taken aback because it just was not something that he was expecting. And later he texts Karen, I think you're messing with me. Why do you think that? Because this is so out of left field. Where did these feelings come from? I just think you're like me. Meaning? Do you have your own kids? I have no kids. How am I like you? Um, hello? Aren't we alike? I think so.

34:58So why did you get my number and reach out to me? Shoot straight with me. I told you. I just think we're alike. Yes, agree. I don't know. Shouldn't you know? Brian admits that he's had a crush on Karen since the first time he met her. And she responds with, this is like the most lukewarm confession of a crush. I don't know. You're just my type. You think you can handle me? I thought you were happy. How do you know if I'm happy? I just assumed. Are you hard to handle? What do you like about me? And this is when Karen has sent the now viral text message where Brian says, what do you like about me and karen reed responds wholeheartedly i just feel like you're from my neighborhood wait what does that mean like nobody knows it's like the most lukewarm confession of interest that the world has ever heard in a murder trial like usually you have like very passionate text message that the prosecutor is trying to bring up and it's just like i feel like you're from my neighborhood and people didn't know how to respond because the severity of the context that these text messages are being read in is very severe this is a murder trial but at the same time it's like it's very hard to wrap your mind around that these are the text messages that everybody has to treat very seriously because the energy in the courtroom is also very um okay so like Adam Lally just didn't follow up much on that no she's just like why do I like you we're like from the same zip code bro like what do you want me to say that's the energy and he says ditto ditto ditto he says yeah ditto and she says I just think you're hot Brian's all you really think that I have always thought that about you what you're hot smart witty but i didn't think you were interested witty yeah meaning quick with a response tell me why you got my number and reached out to me i just thought we were the same and from the same neighborhood are you afraid to say what's on your mind this whole text message exchange is very hard to listen to i think that the government thought it was going to have the same effect as michael proxor reading out his messages of no nudes so far and all of these things but I think the general energy of these two messaging each other it's bad I do think it's bad because Karen is clearly having a relationship to some degree outside of her relationship with John O 'Keefe and she's accused of murdering John O 'Keefe so it is bad it is serious however it feels almost juvenile when you see this ATF agent on the stand reading them out loud one by one and it also seems like both parties are into it even atf brian i mean this is his friend's girlfriend and he's just quote i will give you what you want how are you texting me right now are you leaving me hanging how am i texting is everyone asleep i'm just wide awake on my phone yeah they're asleep i should have stayed lol so now what yeah you should have stayed but he's saying that would have been so distracting now what he keeps asking things like now what why'd you get my number?

38:22What do you see in me? And Karen is like, now what? What? Ball's in your court. What do you want? Loaded question. What do you want? I asked you. Nope. You initiated this. Spit it out. Hey, we're single and we don't have kids. We can do whatever we want. Don't you have a boyfriend? Karen just completely changes the topic and she says, I'm glad you came over tonight to watch the patriots game and she does like a shy blushing emoji and he says me too balls in your court what do you want karen you looked great tonight it almost seems like he's a little bit more excited about the situation than karen is karen seems if anything a little non-committal i know that she started the interactions but it i mean i don't know as a girl reading it it just sounds like she's not that into it but you tell me in the comments and she's like i looked great you're so full of it i think you're hot i've always thought that just never revealed my thoughts and karen says i'm hot for the hillside the area low comps knock it off you're hot period are you glad you walked me out so he's now asking about the kiss they shared and she's like um yes smiley face are you and it's just the whole thing is uncomfortable and he just keeps saying things like feeling is mutual i never saw this coming why because i just assumed you were happy with your situation i was but things have deteriorated how so it's very very complicated so at this point if um quick reminder john o 'keefe has two siblings paul o 'keefe and christian now Now, his sister passed away from cancer.

40:09She left behind a daughter and a son. And then a few months after, her husband passed away. So he took on his niece and nephew. He took custody over them. He's raising them as his own. And Karen has been dating John O 'Keefe for the past two years now. And she says, he and I dated when we were kids. So prior to this, they had actually dated. Oh, when they were young. Yeah, very briefly. And then during the pandemic, Karen came back into town and he was sending Facebook messages to all of his ex-girlfriends. And Karen actually thought like, whoa, why are you messaging me when your whole Facebook page is filled with you and children?

40:44Like you probably have a wife. And then she reconnected with him, found out that he had taken in his niece and nephew. And that's how they rekindled their whole relationship. We're going to go into that in the next part because there's a whole thing with how John O 'Keefe's family interacts with her the day that he passes away. and she also gets admitted into the hospital she gets sectioned into the hospital meaning um they think that she's a danger to herself she says it's very complicated he and i dated when we were kids and then his sister died and everything got fucked up he seems very into you yeah but where's that i mean i've had all my shit here for a couple of years and my house has been vacant but i'd like to get closer to the water are you breaking up or are you staying here i don't know he hooked up with another girl on vacation i'm very close to his niece and it's all a very fucked up situation when was that and how did you find out he hooked up i don't want to complicate your situation we went away for new year's the four of us so she's saying it was her john and the two kids i put the kids to bed and found him in the lobby of our hotel all over one of our friends whatever it doesn't matter it does matter did they bang does that matter sorry i was just asking.

42:00I was just trying to figure shit out. It doesn't really matter. Okay, I won't ask again. I don't care. It doesn't matter. Okay, hear you loud and clear, Karen. Uh, okay. Why are you getting your thong all twisted up over simple questions? She responds, I'm not. Am I? You're kind of getting defensive. Not at all. Eventually, Karen asks what Brian Higgins wants and he responds he wants the real deal. To which she's kind of cynical. She says it doesn't exist. Sometimes it's a lot. A lot why? He's like asking her a lot why? Because I went from being solo to trying to give attention to kids who aren't mine and I never wanted kids.

42:43I thought you were happy in this relationship. Everybody is happy at the hillside. Oh god you avoid things. It's just a very complicated dynamic with the four of us. He isn't cut out for what he's doing and the kids present constant issues. I think he believes he's doing the right thing. Well, of course he is, but his heart isn't in it. It's only because he was very, very close with his sister. I know kind of how you feel. I was married. So Brian was married previously and his ex-wife had brought in a child from a previous marriage. And he said that he has been divorced since 2017 and he has no kids anymore because they got a divorce.

43:21And she says, I tried very hard, but the kids are very spoiled. They're not my family. My parents keep telling me I'd feel differently if they were mine or my own sister's. You know, then I told you he got sloppy and drunk on New Year's Eve while we were away and that's really affected me. What exactly did he do? I never got married and now somehow I'm arguing with someone about raising kids. Eye rolling emoji. Why don't you just tell me? He was a puddle all day and then he disappeared. Then I found him all over our friend's sister in the lobby of our hotel and she's gross, which I think may actually be worse.

43:56Not sure. Oh God, did they bang? I'm not sure. I was with the kids, so I was with the kids celebrating New Year's without him, which shouldn't be my role, but I doubt that they did it. I mean, he was a mess. Was it the first time with her? Do you think there was others? I don't really think there were others. I'm with him all the time. He never seems to want to go anywhere without me, but honestly, the issues with the kids bother me more than him actually cheating. they are constant and it feels like a lose-lose genuinely is starting to feel like karen is just using him as a therapist and not actually interested in brian higgins at all and he even notices that you clearly have a lot of feelings swarming inside of you yeah it's very complicated sorry for the rant you can vent babe oh wait this is all from the night the same night yeah it's like in the span of nine days they go through all of this and she's like basically I just feel like I spread myself too thin and sometimes it's thankless.

44:53Now, I will say there might be some validity to her feelings. I don't think that... I'm not saying any of these messages are appropriate. However, there were rumors in Canton and Jen had semi-confirmed it that everybody called Karen and this is so mean girl coded a glorified babysitter for John O 'Keefe. Really? How did we find out Jen said that? Jen was like, yeah that's what Carrie said about her. Carrie Roberts John O 'Keefe's childhood best friend. Got it. And so she's saying I mean you probably felt that way too when you were married. I did. I mean at times but it was one kid not two thankfully.

45:34Do you want to grab a drink? So they start kind of planning to hang out at one point and there are suspicions. Now Karen has spoken out in a documentary about these text messages and she said it was bad. She said, first of all, she has only ever met ATF Bryan at bars, in bar lighting, okay? She says it's very different from not bar lighting. And on top of that - That's crazy, crazy. Yeah, that's a crazy statement. And on top of that, she says she's not proud of it, but she was just very emotionally insecure. And I can see how that portrays in the text messages. Like I can see her, like it doesn't feel disconnected from the text messages.

46:15there are certain points where he's saying like do you get angry when you don't get your way and she she texts him i rarely ever get my way so it seems like all of her messages are a little bit on the more depressing side however this message i think a lot of a lot of people a lot of netizens feel that karen was just trying to use brian to get john to like her more or to chase after her more or want her more and is that something that we should be doing probably not but the message reads, John has showed me about five times the ring video of me walking you out on Saturday. My voice and accent are killing me softly, throwing up emoji.

46:56Wait, John has show Karen? Wait, what? Ring video of her walking Brian Higgins out of his house the day of the Patriots game. That's weird. And he says, um, what? Yeah, he has cameras everywhere. You cops rolling eye emoji. Like the kissing thing too? He's freaking out. He says, Jesus. And then Karen says, he's like, Christ, are you guys hooking up? Oh my God, great. I don't need drama, dude. No, it's fine. Seriously? I'm serious. You legit planted one on me. Saying you literally kissed me. And Karen says, I know where the cameras are anyway, duh. Wait, so she's implying the kiss is not on there.

47:43yeah implying the kiss is not on there but i guess that they were appearing friendly right that john is saying something to her about it and the way that she's texting almost seems like that was the purpose right it's kind of the vibe yeah yeah yeah like she's not bothered by it like hey by the way john was jealous about it she's not like keep it on the like keep it down low don't say anything he's already on to us like she's not saying any of that it almost seems like hee hee it worked is the energy of the text messages and brian is feeling that too right you planned it on me like yeah he seems a little more startled than karen does and she says i know where all the cameras are and he's like so your slick move wasn't on there of course not oh my god i almost threw up it was just a peck anyway i kissed carrie and gay jeff too yeah weak i agree He's saying the kiss was weak.

48:33LOL, funny. So now he's jealous of me? No, I told you he likes you a lot. Which makes it worse. You said or did something at the bar last week and he goes, I like Brian more and more. He's a good dude too. Yeah, he is. Funny. What's your end game? What do you want from me? You will just confuse the shit out of yourself because I'm a lot of fun. And so Karen is just like, what is happening right now? They start texting about how they're maybe going to go out for drinks or go to each other's places for drinks. Karen even says, I'm 42. I know what happens when you invite someone over for a drink.

49:09He calls her a master of avoidance. And they have this little like back and forth nonstop. So Karen's saying that I know what happens if we go to our houses and she's not saying yes to the house. She does eventually go to ATF Brian's house. And he says it was really uncomfortable and awkward. like they just repeat the same conversations that they were having over text message and again this is why a lot of netizens feel like was it appropriate for karen to do this absolutely not was this a good thing to do no but it does indeed feel like she is not interested in brian higgins like like the intention um not the intention what is it like is there a motive for example right for karen to let's say murder jenna keith for a another guy that's kind of text message.

49:59So that's kind of how the prosecution is showing it. She's ready to move on. She doesn't like John O 'Keefe. But when you actually read the text messages, it's kind of, it seems like she maybe likes John O 'Keefe a little too much. Right, right. There's no passion. There's no... And maybe it's toxic. I think that's a subjective word for a relationship. Some people are like, no, I would do the same thing. Some people are like, that is crazy. It's toxic. But toxic doesn't mean you're a killer. I guess is where a lot of people are confused

50:41Brian even asks so he's cool with you dating other people I'm not happy per se just realistic there's cracks so she's saying in her relationship with John and it's far from perfect I doubt it if he's seeing someone else I wouldn't want to know either way he probably feels the same way and you probably feel that way about whoever you hook up with i think it's normal and all of this comes to a climax where she goes over to his house they share a drink and they have this same conversation and brian says it was awkward and she just eventually leaves and it was just a weird vibe there's a few more messages exchanged where it appears that karen is pretty fully checked out until he texts her at the waterfall the night of right before they all go to 34 fairview brian higgins is at the waterfall bar he came with brian albert karen and john show up and karen ignores him per the cctv footage per testimonies she doesn't go anywhere near him john says hi to brian higgins karen does not she does not want to talked to him she doesn't want to say hi to him whether it's she doesn't want to make john jealous now or whether she just is so over him it's unclear but he texts her um well dot dot dot she doesn't respond the next day around noon karen texts brian higgins for the very last time january 29th 2022 around noon she texts two words john died dot dot dot brian higgins never responds.

52:19Wow. Initially, netizens thought that this motive was for Karen to kill John O 'Keefe, but that doesn't make sense like what the prosecutors are saying. So first of all, she texts ATF Bryan and she's talking to him about how she saw John kissing another girl on their New Year's Eve trip, which more on that later, but she says that he cheated on her. So by a lot of people's accounts, it seems like this text message is some sort of toxic revenge plan or an attempt to get John to pay more attention to her. Other people also point out that the prosecution is saying that Karen killed John in a crime of passion, if you will.

52:53They got into a fight in the car in front of 34 Fairview. She ran him over. It was a drunken fight. However, people are saying if she wanted to kill him, it would have been on that New Year's Eve trip when she thought that he was hooking up with another girl. That would have been the time for the crime of passion. Not in front of another Boston police officer's house in the middle of the night out of nowhere. And second, netizens think that the prosecution just wants to paint Karen as being overly jealous, thus pushing her to be homicidal. But she doesn't seem, she doesn't seem, I mean, she seems jealous.

53:28She seems perhaps a little toxic, but it does seem like she never really bad mouths John ever. It seems more so like the circumstances are rough and she's upset, but it's never this like very vile, Like, I hate this guy. He can't fulfill me. Like, there's nothing negative per se. So while the prosecutors are trying to paint this as motive that Karen has to want to kill John O 'Keefe, the defense are saying, actually, all these text messages do is prove that ATF Bryan had motive. Because wouldn't he benefit the most if John O 'Keefe is out of the picture? January 23rd, less than a week before John O 'Keefe is found dead, Karen Reed ghosts ATF Brian to the point where he's just reaching out to try and get responses he's texting her things like stranger stranger not once but twice and this is kind of a side note but a lot of people also point out the fact that Karen and John had previously dated they ended up breaking up and then reconnecting over the pandemic where they actually started seriously dating for two years that to a lot of people feels like Karen is not the type to be like if I can't have you, no one can.

54:41Because they had already previously broken up once before. So it doesn't seem like she has this fixation on him that's like, only I can be with you or else. So that's another thing that people have been pointing out. But on top of that, based off the text messages between Karen and ATF Brian, it seems that John knows that maybe Karen and ATF Brian have a thing. And a lot of netizens have theorized perhaps John was lured to 34 Fairview where Brian Higgins decides to confront him and he is backed up by his best friend, Boston cop Brian Albert. And that is how John ends up dead. So whatever happens inside 34 Fairview, nobody thinks it's premeditated.

55:24Nobody thinks this is like this masterful plan because these are cops. They know that this is not a good plan. However, maybe a fight breaks out, a punch is thrown, he ends up dying from a fatal wound and now these cops are like, We got to do something. That's the theory of people who buy into the conspiracy that the McAlberts had something to do with it. Now, a big point of contention in this case is John O 'Keefe's injuries do not make sense with the prosecution theory. Karen reversing into John O 'Keefe, him getting hit by her passenger side taillight. So right side taillight. He spins backwards, hits his head on the semi-frozen ground because it's about to snow, incapacitating him leaving him dead in the snow that's what the prosecutors are alleging Karen did in the next episode we actually go into the accident reconstructionists which you would think in a trial that's like the boring part that's the part that nobody really cares about um there is so much unhinged drama between these accident reconstructionists the prosecutors the government the commonwealth they hire a bunch of accident reconstructionists the defense actually uses the accident reconstructionists that were hired by the fbi and they go head to head there is so much drama of some of these people lying on their resumes some of these people not even understanding their own data of the accident reconstruction doing experiments that make zero sense one of the guys is like yeah i tested it by using a freezer i put the phone in the freezer they're like, do you know what freezer temperature it was?

57:04No. You don't think that's like the basic thing of like knowing the temperature if you're going to stick it into a freezer and see how it responds to being stuck in a freezer? He's like, well, I didn't think it mattered. I mean, these people are absolutely ridiculous. It's like every single person, I don't know what is happening in this town, but the injuries themselves, they don't make sense with a car accident. Netizens think it lines up more with someone who's been in a fight. Dr. Scordy Bello is the medical examiner. She is the one that performs John O 'Keefe's autopsy, and now she is on the stand to tell everyone her findings.

57:35Now, side note, while autopsy photos are shown, Paul O 'Keefe, John's brother, is seated. And like I said, this is a very small courtroom. Seated, I mean, I'm not in the courtroom, but it just appears like... A few feet, right? Yeah, and he's just staring down Karen the whole time. Dr. Squirtybello notes that John O 'Keefe has a small cut to his right upper eyelid, abrasions on his nose bleeding and swelling of both of his eyelids and eyes he has these weird cuts on his arms they look i saw the photo it's like throughout his whole arm yes and they're all almost linear yeah so it's not jagged everywhere it it looks like if you were to get and i'm gonna try to use an analogy that it's not applicable to this case if you were to get you know those leaf rakers and then you were to just slice someone's arm because there's so many up and down his arm yeah it kind of looks like that he just has these weird lacerations on his arm and a few bruises on the back of his right hand as well as a small scratch and vague bruises on his left hand now side note bleeding under the eyelids usually is an indicator of something really bad.

58:49They're called raccoon eyes and Dr. Squirty Bellows says bleeding around the eyes could signify that there's a much larger injury inside the skull and it's not just bleeding of the eyes which is exactly the case here. Ultimately the cause of death for John is a giant laceration on the back of his head. That is consistent with blunt force trauma aka hitting your head against a blunt object. It could be a microphone. It could be a dumbbell. It could be a stick. It could be the ground. It's just something that's not sharp. So it's not a stab. It's blunt force trauma. It could be the edge of a table.

59:29And Dr. Squirtybello states that the injury to his head would not have instantly killed him, but it would have likely incapacitated him. It caused a fatal skull fracture. He had hemorrhaging, bleeding in the brain. And if he's out in the snow, then the hit to the back of the head incapacitates him i mean that's a cause for hypothermia so she believes the laceration to the back of the head and hypothermia is the combination that caused as death in comparing the blunt force trauma versus the hypothermia dr scordy bellow says i do believe the blunt force trauma injuries were sustained first these are not injuries that are immediately lethal this is not something that would cause death in seconds and therefore mr keith may have been incapacitated by the injuries or knocked out, if you will, and was not able to get himself into warmer environments.

1:00:15And therefore, hypothermia set in. So in my opinion, I believe the impact, the injury to the head came first. Mr. O 'Keefe was likely incapacitated or unable to move into a warmer environment. And then the hypothermia set in. So she's assuming that he got injured outside the house well no because it's vague oh if that trauma comes first then yeah i mean he could be injured outside the house but a lot of people say it's vague enough that he could have been injured anywhere and then taken somewhere where it's cold and he can't get up and move got it now prosecutor lally asks dr scordy bello what if any opinion can you give or can you say in regard to the type of force or amount of force necessary to cause the fracture to the skull that you observed with regard to Mr.

1:01:03O 'Keefe. Can I say something about Mr. Lally? This man asks the most convoluted questions I've ever heard spoken in court. It's just kind of ridiculous. I don't understand any of these questions. He makes every single question so complicated for no reason. She responds, I can't really give you a number. I'm not a physicist. I can tell you that the skull is a pretty thick bone. It takes a considerable amount of force to fracture the skull. So that was a pretty considerable impact. Prosecutor Lally wants the jurors to know. Considerable impact, you know? Like a car reversing at 24 miles per hour.

1:01:40But that's where everything stops making sense. Wait, so he said that? Car reversing at 24? He keeps hinting. Yes, he keeps implying it. Why 24 miles per hour? That will come in the next episode, but it's the data pulled from Karen's Lexus. Okay. They claim. Right. Now, John's lower extremities. So his neck down, pretty much, does not have a lot of injuries from his neck down. There's barely anything. Usually, if you're hit by a car, the lower extremities are highly susceptible to injury. You'll notice a lot of pelvic bone injuries when pedestrians are hit with bigger cars like SUVs. You'll notice knee injuries, femur, the tibia, the fibula.

1:02:18I mean, John has none of those. He does have fractures near the ribs. His ribs are fractured. But those are very common locations for CPR-associated fractures. So she's saying those rib fractures, she believes it's resuscitation efforts. She does not believe it was anything that caused his death or was at the time of impact of anything. The bruises on his knuckles would not be dissimilar to the ones found on Colin. They look like fighting bruises, like defensive wounds. and the ME testifies, it could be. It could also be medical intervention. So one bruise on his right hand, there's this little prick at the center of the bruising.

1:02:59So it could have been them trying to attempt to get an IV in there that can cause bruising when they're being a little bit more forceful because your life is at stake. But some people are saying, you could have gotten the bruise from a fight, they could have done it and bruised it more. It's not just exclusive to one or the other. It could have been both. So everything, even the medical report, is just up to debate. Now, she does say that she did not see any major signs of a significant altercation taking place. The bruising on the hands were faint and one of them had a pinpoint mark that could suggest it was the IV.

1:03:33But also, a lot of people that are in very intense fights, they'll break their knuckles. She didn't see any broken bones in the hands of John O 'Keefe or any broken nails, which are very typical. However, a lot of netizens argue if he sustained an injury that would have incapacitated him pretty quick on, that doesn't mean that he was in this prolonged 10-minute fight. The prosecution asks her, the injuries that you observed to the back of Mr. O 'Keefe's head skull fracture, would that be consistent with a fall to the ground? It could be. Would that be consistent with being projected by an object saying a pedestrian collision and then striking your head on the ground?

1:04:08Also, what kind of question is that? Just ask, would that be consistent with a pedestrian hitting their head on the ground after being hit by a car? But instead, he says, would that be consistent with being projected by an object, say, a pedestrian collision, and then striking your head on the ground? It's possible. And the injuries that you observed, Would that be consistent with injuries that you observed in other cases of a pedestrian collision? They're not the classic pedestrian injuries that we've observed, no. Defense attorney Elizabeth Little does the cross, and she asks if these injuries could also have been caused by, let's say, a dumbbell.

1:04:46You know, the Alberts, they love working out. They've got a home gym in their basement. Could it have been a dumbbell? Could be. She's also asking one by one. You know, it's very interesting. So there were no injuries to his shoulders? No. Chest area aside from the resuscitation attempts? No. No injuries to the torso, to his back, hips, pelvis, thighs, knees, just feet, ankles, none? None. So from the neck down, he did not have a single broken bone, again, aside from those CPR-related injuries, correct? That's correct. Not a single fracture? Correct. Would you agree that Janaki's injuries, or lack thereof, are inconsistent with having been struck by a vehicle at 24 miles per hour.

1:05:30I would say it's likely and unlikely at the same time depending on the position of the body and the vehicle in question. Would you agree that his injuries to his face are consistent with having being punched? That is a possibility. Your external examination notes also cite a tongue laceration on the right front of the victim's tongue. You'd agree that a tongue laceration can also be caused by blunt force trauma, correct? And that could include something like a punch to the victim's face or jaw. That's a possibility. The laceration to the back of John's head had scratches, to which defense attorney Little asks, would you agree that someone could certainly get scratched on the back of their head if, for instance, they were dragged on the ground?

1:06:10It is possible. So she's saying anything's possible, basically. Yeah. Now, Dr. Squirtybello testifies that the injury to the back of his head, the fatal wound, could have been a result of falling back onto concrete, onto grass. It could have been a result of being struck with a large object such as a baseball bat or a barbell or hitting your head against the table. I mean, the world is the oyster. Like, anything is possible at this point. But Elizabeth Little continues. And you'd agree that bruising to the back of hands is also consistent with defensive wounds. Yes, that is correct. In your expert medical opinion, is it possible for someone to get punched in the face hard enough to lose consciousness and fall backwards?

1:06:49It is possible. Now, there are five classifications for manner of death on an autopsy. One, natural. Two, accidental. So the fatal outcome is not intentional. Drug overdoses, elderly falls, motor vehicle accidents. Three, homicide. Four, self-exit. And five, undetermined. Now, this is very different from the cause of death, which would include more injury or impact focus facts. For example, John O 'Keefe's official cause of death on his certificate list is blunt impact injuries of head and hypothermia. But the manner of death is listed could not be determined. It's not homicide, even though we are in the middle of a homicide trial.

1:07:34Now she says, I am responsible for what goes on the death certificate and unless I have enough information, clear and convincing evidence, I cannot determine a manner. The ME states that they don't necessarily think that the injuries indicate or are consistent with John getting hit by a car, particularly the blunt force trauma to the back of the head, could be consistent with pretty much anything. Now, the defense argues that this is very interesting because Dr. Squirty Bellow actually receives a lot of information from the state troopers. The state troopers give her a lot of background information that can help her narrow down her medical findings.

1:08:13They don't influence her. She says they never tried to and she would never accept it if they did, which makes sense because I think if they did influence her, she would have put it down as homicide or something. But she says, no, they gave me this information. I mean, they told her that Karen said, I hit him, I hit him. And they were talking about hitting him with the car and she still ruled it could not be determined. So the defense is asking, you had all that information. you still were unable to conclude the manner of death from Mr. O 'Keefe, correct? Correct. Netizens argue it just doesn't make sense with the sentiment being if you really wanted.

1:08:49I mean, sure, you could try to argue that he was hit by the car somehow and there are these odd once in a blue moon instances where maybe the injuries are just not how they seem. Another thing a lot of netizens have been pointing out is that you see a lot of drunk driving statistics where the drunk driver themselves always come out alive whereas the sober people who are following the laws they end up passing and i think per instance it's different but there have been anecdotal evidence and maybe there's scientific evidence out there if you guys can inform me on that but when you are drunk your limbs are a lot more they're not as stiff and so your body takes the impact typically a tiny bit better and so people are saying if he were to be hit and he was that drunk it doesn't make sense typically drunk people are a little more jello-y he might have fallen but this feels almost like he became stiff as a board and like twisted and just banged his head down instead of being a little more jello-y which is like you would fall into your bottom first or something of that sort but again that i don't know how scientific that is it seems a lot more anecdotal but people are like maybe we can believe that however what are the injuries to his arms It doesn't make sense.

1:10:02Now the prosecutors, they're going to argue, and we're going to get more into this in the next part, that when Karen hit him with the back of her car, her taillight shatters. And then she almost drags him by the arm with her cracked taillight. And then he spins around, does like a pirouet. They literally use that word like a ballet spin and then hits his head on the frozen ground and passes away. that's what they're trying to say Dr. Squirty Bellow says about those arms we have this collection of linear abrasions that measured up to 7 centimeters and extended from the upper arm down to the middle of the forearm I mean the arm has no broken bones no fractures just these lacerations she states I do not know how they came to be now defense attorney Little asks her could they have been from a German shepherd's claws?

1:10:54Chloe claws? possibly yes so this is why chloe is going to be very important later now some people are very split now this i think at this point with the injuries a lot of people believe that john o 'keefe was killed inside the house that's just the conspiracy out there a lot of people just don't feasibly understand how these injuries came from the impact of a car it just doesn't make sense to them and i think it's not just this it's the way everybody testifies all these like negative uh weird associations with the no nudes yet these random butt dials we're going to get into everybody's kind of suspicious and then the injuries are not consistent it's weird now some people are split on who killed john o 'keefe inside the house and again these are conspiracies some believe that it was brian higgins others say it was colin but regardless many netizens believe he went inside the house and he was killed inside the basement and we're going to get into all of the pictures of the basement because the Alberts decide that they're suddenly going to renovate the basement and then put their house that they have lived in for generations.

1:12:02This house was owned by Brian Albert's parents prior to this. And they're going to put it on the market and sell it. No freaking way. When? Like months after. That is so shady. Before the first trial. And the new owners, the new owners are going to let Karen Reed's defense team into the house.

1:12:27Fascinating. That is crazy. Yeah. Now, a lot of people think that John O 'Keefe was killed in the basement. He was dragged out through the basement doors that lead open to the backyard. And then there's a side fence that leads straight to the front lawn flagpole where his body was found. They believe that he was semi-dragged or perhaps he was put inside a Ford Edge and then put on the side of the road. we're going to get to that in the next one. But they're saying that this all adds up because around 12.18am John's phone shows that he unlocked his face ID and he is on the messages app for about 11 seconds.

1:13:04Then he calls Jen McCabe. So we can assume that at 12.18am Karen and John are driving to 34 Fairview. That call lasts 36 seconds. It's likely that he's asking for clarifying directions to 34 Fairview. That call ends and at 12.20 John unlocks his phone again and starts using Waze, the map app. Then two minutes after that, at around 1222, John gets a message from Brian Higgins that just reads, you come in here? Question mark, question mark, question mark. Then around 1229, Jen calls John, and that call lasts around 51 seconds. 1231, Jen texts John, pull behind me. Now, John's phone is locked for the very last time at 1233 AM.

1:13:46And then Karen starts calling John O 'Keefe at 1233 a.m. 1234, 1234, 1235, 1235, 1236, 1237. All those calls go unanswered. That is when at 1238, Karen starts leaving her series of rather angry voicemails. Then at 1240, Jen texts John, Hello, this is the first message that goes unread. The calls from Karen go unanswered. So from 1233, John stops responding to any phone calls, any messages. So his phone stopped at 1233? yes stop interaction now at 12 42 another message pops up where are you then at 102 another message from karen that reads your kids are fucking alone and then another one at 104 from karen to john i'm back in mansfield which is where her house is stating that she left john's niece alone at the house which is not true she's actually at john's house on the couch waiting for him to get home now here's where it gets interesting from john's apple health data it shows that at 12 30 a.m the phone takes 36 steps, which would be around 84 feet.

1:14:52Measurements from the flagpole to the front door are 74 feet. Now, flagpole to the street probably adds a few more feet. It seems like the right amount to get into the house. And then his Apple Health data shows him going up and down stairs to the basement. How many feet? Three stairs, three flights of stairs. Okay. now according to the prosecution expert they state that john's phone after leaving karen's car never leaves the area of the flagpole they say that it drops down onto the ground and we're going to get into this whole like phone battery temperature in the next one in the next episode but there are theories online that john made it into the house and was killed in the basement and that perhaps chloe the german shepherd that's not great with strangers attacks john's arm because a fight has broken out probably maybe conspiracy with her loved ones people that she loves and a stranger and she jumps into the fight allegedly and there is a bigger physical altercation she causes those lacerations and that is the theory but when they run the dna on john's shirt there is no dog dna only pig dna what where the hell are they getting pig dna before i give you a full rundown of the full statements of everyone in the house i have to do a quick rundown of the theories that are circulating on the internet so you can decide whether if any of these theories make any sense at all and if so which one makes the most sense so first theory is an insane theory I'm going to tell you that straight up.

1:16:31It's a house full of swingers. The theories come from speculations and rumors from locals, alleged locals, that Jen McCabe and Brian Albert, so Jen McCabe is sisters with Nicole. Nicole is married to Brian. That Jen McCabe and Brian Albert were having an affair. And that Brian Albert and Nicole Albert were swingers. That the McAlberts, they're swingers in this town. That's what they're saying. Now, the most interesting part of this theory that netizens grasp onto that makes the most sense is Karen asked John when they get to 34 Fairview, can you go inside and make sure we're welcome? Which is kind of a weird thing to ask.

1:17:08Some netizens will interpret this differently as, ooh, Karen got bad vibes from these people from the get-go. Like she doesn't know if they like John or not. That's some interpretation. Others say, you don't think that's strange? Why would she ask him to go inside to make sure that they're welcome? Well, the theory is that Karen and John kind of knew that the Alberts were a swinging house. She didn't want to be a swinger. So she asks John to go in there and make sure that they're not swinging because she doesn't want to go in and like do that. That's not what she wants to do. Now, he goes inside and he doesn't come back out and he doesn't pick up her calls.

1:17:45And so she starts leaving these very angry voicemails because she believes he's in there doing some swinger stuff. Doing stuff that he shouldn't be doing because why else? I mean, these conspiracy theorists are wondering, why else would she call him at 1am calling him a pervert? Because it's a very specific thing. Some people were trying to think, oh, maybe she thought he walked two doors down to Bella's mom's house because he was dating Bella's mom at one point. But that's not a pervert. That's a cheater. That's someone that's messed up. That's not a pervert. A pervert is so specific. So this theory is kind of built upon the text pervert.

1:18:21the angry voicemails of pervert the weirdness of like why would she send him in there to go see if they're welcome and also a lot of locals have come out anonymously online so take it with a grain of salt we can't confirm any of this that these people are swingers okay but isn't like the are the kids at home too brian auber jr yes but she didn't karen didn't know that so Karen's like go in and make sure they're not swinging right now the theory though is how did the death occur then because he would walk in they're not swinging what then the theory is that John walks in and Brian Higgins is demanding he go get Karen or maybe he's inciting John he's drunk he's like hey guess what Karen texted me and Brian Albert's egging it on they're having this little moment of like haha john o 'keefe a fight breaks out one punch and john ends up dead they start panicking karen thinks he's in there doing sexual things she drives off she's pissed off she's leaving voicemails and there are plans now put into place of what they should do which why don't they just report it then right i mean it's clearly not a premeditated intentional killing they know that someone's gonna get jail time these are all cops i don't think they're gonna have a good time in jail and two netizens believe that this group is very image oriented they don't want the whole town to know that this is a swingers gone wrong party which is a crazy way to phrase things but that is theory number one swingers theory two the bryans brian albert and his bestie brian higgins are ready for a fight they had just driven down from new york together and atf brian is telling brian albert about his text message flirting with karen brian albert is riling him up he's like you need to confront John about what his woman is doing like that's the way that this man talks okay just I watched Boston's finest okay um and this guy likes to call everybody females so that's the vibe it gives and he's saying you gotta man to man say something to him these are all fictional in our minds conversations we don't know if any of this is true and he's like end this once and for all which is why Brian is texting John asking if he's coming John walks in a confrontation ensues between Brian Higgins and John O 'Keefe, where again, John ends up with a fatal head injury.

1:20:42And now everyone's freaking out. Theory number three, Colin Albert, bloody knuckles. Colin, 17 year old high schooler, very arrogant, little weasel. I mean, propensity for getting into fist fights. He gets into an altercation, probably over nothing with John O 'Keefe, punches him, causing the fatal head injury. Everyone now plays cleanup. The reason why, why would that happen? Like you say, they previously have bad relationship, right? Yes. So that is one theory. We're going to get more into that in the next one because they're all, they've got some weird relationships with John O 'Keefe as well.

1:21:15His parents do because they were all neighbors for a very long time. They live two houses down. Now, Colin Albert, just a weird kid. He was pissing John off, according to Karen, leaving beer bottles in his front lawn. He was the one person that John O 'Keefe had problems with. And Colin Albert just seems to be very entitled. old he gives me nepo baby vibes although i don't know how wealthy the mcalberts are but chris run the town exactly he that's the energy that he has i also feel like he's the type to bully smaller ranking cops because he's got the big boy cops on his side and i think that he seems to he strikes me as the type to think that that would be cool but what do i know i don't know this guy some people think that he started a fight over the beer cans.

1:22:05Other people think maybe it's a mixture. Perhaps John walks in and Chloe has a moment where she freaks out. She sees John, a stranger, and just attacks out of nowhere. And John is doing everything he can to get Chloe off of him because would you not do the same thing as well? And Colin sees this and he's mad. Why? I don't know if he particularly as a dog lover or an animal lover but i think that he is maybe someone that looks for an opportunity to fight based off of his multiple instances of injured knuckles and he decides that he's going to punch john use this as an excuse to punch him to get him to stop but that punch ends up being fatal so that is theory three colin unpredictable bloody knuckles now there is another theory involving Colin but it's involving Colin and almost this entire wall of people.

1:23:02Now this theory is going to make more sense in the next episode but it is believed that Colin was engaged in some nefarious after-school activities. That's the rumor. These are all speculations. These are conspiracies that Colin is selling drugs. There are depths to this theory. Some people think that it's just Colin selling drugs to high school kids. Others think it's a whole enterprise they think so chris and julie albert they own a pizza shop okay and everyone says the food is really bad and they say i don't know how they stay in business and people say maybe because they're not selling food and it would be very easy theoretically for kevin albert brian albert to get access to confiscated drugs and maybe it is being resold now why is this a theory because right before john o 'keefe's passing he reports to his superiors that he knew of some drug activity in his neighborhood in canton it's actually going to get a lot darker because do you know who invited john o 'keefe to the waterfall bar that night chris albert prior to this they were neighbors for many years oh they hate each other right chris albert didn't even have john o 'keefe's number for a very long time suddenly he invites him to the waterfall that is weird that is a very lengthy theory that we're going to go into the next part but the theory is they decide they're going to bring him to 34 fairview that's why brian higgins is like hey john are you coming and basically they're just going to try to get into a fight to shut him up a lot of people have reported online again rumors that brian albert is a bully cop he's the type of cop that will beat you up he's not the type of cop that's like i will only arrest you and be kind to you because you are still a human with rights and you are innocent until proven guilty they say just based off vibes and what people say that they know of him he's the one to turn off his body cam allegedly this is a conspiracy this is the vibe this is the picture that i'm drawing you the vision but it's not actual deeds that he is accused of doing or has have been proven to have done but people say he's the type of cop to turn off his body cam and beat you up and then turn it back on.

1:25:23So they decide John's going to come over and we're just going to tussle him up so he knows not to mess with it. Not to talk about it, not to investigate further because it's none of your business. And that is theory number four. So with those four main theories in mind, let's see what everyone in the house has to say about that night. Brian Higgins says on the 28th so this is the day of the blizzard party before midnight the day before john is found deceased atf brian and brian albert go to new york city to attend the funeral of an officer who was killed in the line of duty now the original plan was for everybody to stay in new york for a while to pay their respects but because the blizzard is expected to hit atf brian is like i am not gonna get stuck in new york city i'm gonna drive down to canton today friday night Brian Albert and Kevin Albert Canton police officer detective brother of Brian Albert they're both in New York and they ask ATF Brian we flew here can we catch a ride with you because we also don't want to be stuck in New York so they drive back they grab dinner together this drive is like 4 hours by the way and that is why a lot of people are like you're telling me ATF Brian you didn't tell Brian Albert about your text messages with Karen and they don't give me I mean you know based off of everything we've seen about these two men they seem like the type to share all these types of things with each other they've been talking a lot of stuff yeah now they all drive back down grab dinner together where atf brian has a few drinks with his favorite jameson and ginger and eventually they end up at the waterfall bar now to be very precise atf brian initially just went to the hillside for dinner with Brian Albert.

1:27:08Brian Albert is like, I'm gonna go meet my wife, Nicole, at the Waterfall Bar. I think our daughter, Caitlin, is also there. So bye. ATF Brian is like, okay, bye. And then last minute, he decides, you know what, I'm gonna go to the Waterfall Bar for no apparent specific reason. He walks in, and then Karen and John O 'Keefe walk in. And obviously, it's gonna be presumably awkward john doesn't know that they've been texting he has a little inkling that something is weird but karen and atf brian likely well karen likely doesn't want anything to go further atf brian says when the couple walk into the waterfall he has a brief conversation with john and he doesn't recall what they spoke about and he doesn't have any sort of conversation with karen but he does discreetly text her um well which he says was a flirtatious text karen again does not respond and everybody starts packing it up starts leaving the bar to go to 34 fairview suddenly atf brian drops texting karen he's like i'm no longer texting karen i'm gonna text john o 'keefe instead and he says where are you are you coming here question mark question mark question mark it just feels like for whatever reason he wants john o 'keefe there some people say he wants john o 'keefe there because karen by default will come some people say he wants john o 'keefe there because this is like the last straw for him.

1:28:29Karen finally ghosted him again to his face and now he's going to confront John about it. And he's going to be like, you know what's been happening? I see. Okay. It's been interpreted both ways. ATF Bryan gets no response from John O 'Keefe from that message. And he testifies that John and Karen were absolutely not inside the house at any point. He says, after I left the waterfall, I never saw the defendant or John O 'Keefe ever again. During cross-examination, the defense attorney, Alan Jackson, he starts asking ATF Bryan about that kiss. And he's like, it wasn't some passionate long kiss, right?

1:29:08ATF Bryan is like, I wouldn't describe it as a peck. I would describe it as more than friends. It was a kiss. Well, you did describe it as a peck, didn't you? When? When you texted Karen and she said it was just a peck and you texted back, I agree, it was weak. He said it was a figure of speech. or the truth, right? Figure of speech. The defense is trying to argue, Karen really is just not that into you, ATF Brian. I mean, it's pretty clear from the messages that she's emotionally upset over the rough parts of her relationship with John. She's likely using ATF Brian to make John jealous. If anything, that gives ATF Brian a bigger motive to want John gone than it does Karen.

1:29:46Attorney Jackson asks him, you were very interested in her romantically at that point, correct? I was attracted to her. I don't know that I would say very interested in her. you were showing romantic interest in her i wouldn't say it was romantic i was trying to vet it out my question is you seem to have a problem admitting that you had a romantic interest in my client is there a reason for that i was attracted to her right physically attracted i thought she was an attractive woman romantically attracted i'm not gonna go there no i don't agree with that of course you're not gonna go there because that would put you in a very awkward position, wouldn't it?

1:30:25Not at all. But Alan Jackson is like, you were telling her that you want the real deal. The real deal that you would be able to get to date her and get involved romantically, correct? No. The real deal is what then? What do you mean by I want the real deal? Like a relationship. Like a romantic relationship, Mr. Higgins? It's possible. They also point out that at no point, even when talking about John potentially cheating on her, did Karen show any sort of anger, resentment, or hatred towards John O 'Keefe, which ATF Bryan agrees, but maybe ATF Bryan starts feeling some type of way because at the waterfall, he just keeps getting ignored.

1:31:03And so she basically ignored you the whole evening. No, that's not how I interpreted it. So how did she interpret it? So she paid you attention and came over and said hello, shook your hand, give you a hug. Well, just because somebody doesn't come over doesn't mean they ignored you. It was like you didn't even exist I think that's dramatic. I didn't look at it that way Did she ignore you or not? No, she did not ignore me She was working the room talking to people saying hello catching up And the one person she didn't come over to talk to and say hello to and catch up with you is you I don't know that I was the only person but I was one of the people that she didn't say hello to yes Treated you like a stranger I didn't feel that way.

1:31:48No Did that upset you that she ignored you or didn't pay attention to you? I did not feel ignored and it didn't upset me at all But it bothered you enough to send her a text message, didn't it? No, it was a flirty text. It was just, um, that was it Oh, okay, so um, with six M's And she ignored the text, correct? Well, I don't know what her mindset was If she was purposely ignoring the text or she didn't see it I don't know. I didn't read into it I feel like a teenager boy could figure this one out And I feel like he's, yeah, the rejection is very clear. What are you saying? We all know you're ignored and you're kind of butthead about it.

1:32:25This one, a few of these people on this wall, I feel like their egos and their true colors, like this man, Alan Jackson, does know how to poke them. Very specifically. I see. Like he gets people angry on the stand. That is how a lot of reporters have talked about him even before this case. They say he's very adversarial. At 2.20 a.m. after you left the waterfall, you made your way over to 34 Fairview. You were more interested in getting John to come to 34 Fairview than Karen. No, that's not how I would describe it. The defense insinuates that ATF Bryan had told Bryan Albert about everything that's been happening with Karen and he's going to confront John that night.

1:33:07And ATF Bryan is like, to be honest with you, I mean, on a personal level, I kind of keep things to myself. I was a little embarrassed. I wasn't really proud of them Kind of maybe didn't show me in a good light with respects that I was John's friend So he's saying I never told brian albert a single thing He says that the text messages with karen. I mean i'm not proud of these text messages It is what it is. I take responsibility for them But john was a friend at the same time and I clearly wasn't you know If they were at the end of their relationship, they were at the end of their relationship ATF brian says he stops by inside the house never sees john But there's this very strange moment in court.

1:33:41Attorney Jackson brings up the fact that at a previous proceeding, insinuating to be a federal proceeding, these people, these people are much more honest with federal interviews. The FBI comes knocking on their door, suddenly a little more honest. Suddenly they can remember a little bit more. But anything to do with the Commonwealth, grand jury hearing, the first trial, the second trial, interviews, they just talk out of their butts in ways that i'm like logically it doesn't even make sense but with the feds i think they know so the feds and you have only alan jackson has that information and he will bring it up during this trial the commonwealth has that information but it's they don't want to bring it up right so alan jackson is impeaching them with this information so he's bringing it up during cross-examination and he says didn't you at a previous proceeding you stated that you saw a tall, dark-haired male enter the Albert house that night.

1:34:41I believe that was in reference to somebody's brother picking them up. I don't know. I'm asking you, Mr. Higgins, is, did you say that? Did you say a tall, dark-haired male entered the house while you were there? I said they might have. Did you say they might have? Yes. Attorney Jackson reads him the previous statement which Higgins is asked. The male showed up where? You answered, showed up at the house. I think he was there very briefly. I was half paying attention to it. You were then asked, did that male come inside the house? You answered, I believe he did. Do you remember that? Yes. So did the male come into the house that night?

1:35:18No, I said I believe he did. I wasn't sure. You said that you only remember seeing that person come in briefly and it looked like he was having a conversation with two girls briefly, correct? Yes. You were asked how long was the person in there roughly and you said it was quick, less than a couple of minutes. And then you were asked what he looked like and you said, I feel like they were a little bit taller and had dark hair. Now, side note, there are two ways this has been interpreted. This tall, dark-haired male could fit John O 'Keefe's description, but other than that, there's no name, there's nothing.

1:35:48But Higgins knows what John O 'Keefe looks like. Why would he say it like this? Because Higgins is a federal agent. Maybe he knows what happens when you lie to the feds about something really bad. Perhaps he's using this as a seed to plant an out for him to say, well, I didn't really look fully. I was drunk. I wasn't paying attention. I did tell you, remember, I told you that I might have seen someone come into the house. I clearly didn't think it was John because I was so drunk. I was out of it. But I told you I remembered someone coming in. So I'm not lying to you. Others think, no, he's covering his ass because Colin, every single person testifies that Colin leaves before Karen's car even shows up anywhere.

1:36:29Colin leaves before half the senior adults get here. he leaves right when like Brian Albert walks in through the door and he's the first person to get there so there's no way Colin and John O 'Keefe Karen Reed overlap but maybe Brian Higgins is like I know that's not true and I can't lie to the feds and so this is his way of saying well Colin Colin was there Colin was there later than everyone is saying he was there because technically Colin and Brian Higgins should not have crossed paths. He should have left the house before Brian Higgins even got there. Correct. Is that the only people who fits the description?

1:37:12Like there's no other tall black hair? Really? I mean, those are the only two that fit the description in a way that would make sense. So these are what the netizens are theorizing. Oh, okay. Now, this could be him covering for himself to say, well, I didn't see John O 'Keefe there, but I guess I saw him. I was just drunk. Or to not perjure himself on the stand and say that, oh, I didn't see Colin. He left before I got there. So exactly how many people is in the house? When everybody is at the waterfall. When everyone's at the waterfall, okay? You've got birthday Brian, Brian Albert Jr. I have these little house post-its, okay?

1:37:53Because I was like, these are going to come in handy. I love it. Brian Albert Jr. Uh-huh. his friend julie his other friend sarah levinson okay these three are in the house there were that's it there were a few other girls but they left and they are now saying colin was also there the whole time with brian albert jr yes he he only came for like 40 minutes they say okay but he was there wait so colin albert is friends with brian albert oh yeah they're albert yeah they're cousins yeah so they're cousins interesting they're there and then the first people to get back uh-huh in one car is brian albert uh-huh nicole albert nicole albert and like what 12 something yes and caitlin albert their daughter right okay so these three come back in one car from the waterfall bar and then colin leaves why why did he leave so early right he says he has a curfew we're gonna get into that he there's text messages that are so unhinged so then colin leaves at what time 12 he says 12 10 a.m exactly does he recall anything else that is crazy but they every single person recalls he left at 12 10 wow so then then And Brian Higgins walks in.

1:39:22Okay. Colin is left. Brian Higgins walks in. Jennifer McCabe walks in with her husband, Matthew McCabe. Yes. And then, do you want to know about outside people? Should I do upside down house for people who are outside on the street? And obviously, Chloe's in the house. Now, these are all the people that are inside the house. That's not a lot of people. No. How do you not remember? Okay, so there's, let me see. One, two, three, four, five. Five adults. Like, five older. and then one, two, three, four, four younger crowd. Like there's barely anyone in the house. Yeah. I mean, okay. So I'm going to get there when I get there because there are outside people now.

1:39:59So these are all the people. When asked about if he said that to the feds about the dark haired tall guy, he doesn't remember. Brian Higgins doesn't remember a lot of things during his testimony. All he remembers about being in that house was he just stayed for a little bit because, well, he saw birthday Brian flanked by two females. That's how he says it. He just keeps using this type of verbiage over and over again. And at one point, ATF Brian and Brian Albert leave the kitchen area and they go upstairs to look at Brian Albert's other son's photos. So Brian Albert is like, hey, my other son, who's not on this wall, is in the Marines.

1:40:37You want to see pictures of him in the Marines? So they go upstairs. Uh-huh. Problem. ATF Brian previously testified that he had never been upstairs in the Albert household. But they went upstairs to go look at the photos. There's three floors in the Albert residence. ATF Bryan testified previously that he's never been to the very top floor, which means you just have the main floor and the basement. So if you go upstairs to look at photos, where are the photos? Okay, so are we saying that they were downstairs in the basement? Where a lot of people theorized John O 'Keefe was killed. So they're downstairs in the basement and they went upstairs to go look at photos.

1:41:21It's just another thing that is very, very strange, right? It doesn't make any sense. ATF Bryan also states that he leaves the Albert residence sometime around 12.20, 1am. He says that he knew he was going to leave pretty early, even before coming, because he's not a big beer drinker and all they have are White Claws and beers. So he's like, I need my Jameson and Ginger. He's like obsessed with that combination. He claims he's one of the very first people to leave. And he just wants to go home. Except he doesn't go home. He goes straight to the Canton Police Department. ATF Bryan works out of the Canton Police Department.

1:41:57He has an office there. Because chief, the chief of the Canton Police, Berkowitz, is his bestie. During a celebration party for Chief Berkowitz, ATF Bryan got up with a glass of champagne to give a toast and allegedly said, if you want to hide a body, Kenny Berkowitz is your man. Brian Higgins says, that relationship was through Chief Berkowitz, born through a tragedy. When my sister passed away, we became friends and he offered up the space at the police station. I'd also moved to Canton, so it was close. It was a good jumping off point. Brian Higgins' sister passed away? Yeah. And then he was like, hey, since you're moving to Canton, do you just want an office inside of my police station?

1:42:42You want to know something else that's crazy? I keep wanting to save some crazy things, but okay. These two seem close, right? Brian Higgins, ATF Brian, and Brian Albert seem close, right? Besties, yeah. But Brian Higgins, ATF Brian, and Chief Berkowitz are actually much closer. And ATF Brian stated that Chief Berkowitz says even he is scared of Brian Albert. Brian Albert's a scary guy. How did we find out about that? He said that to somebody else. Now, why does he go to the Canton Police Department right after 34 Fairview? At 1am. Yeah, it doesn't make sense. He claims it's because he has a ton of cars parked in the parking lot.

1:43:22He's got work cars, he's got a police cruiser, he's got an undercover cop car, he's got his own personal cars in the parking lot, and if the snow plowers are coming through, they've got to move all their cars to the center of the parking garage because it just makes things easier. It's a courtesy thing. Nevertheless, he goes in, he passes the dispatch room, where Sergeant Good is working dispatch. And he will be the one that picks up Carrie Roberts' initial 911 call where she's like, hey, have you seen my friend at a hospital or anything? He says no. Then he picks up another 911 call from Jen who says there's a guy in the snow.

1:43:57There's a man in the snow. And then he later showed up too at the scene. Yes. It was all him. Yes. These three will show up at the scene. These three are so suspicious because these three didn't even see where John's body was laying in the snow, but they're out here giving all their information to the accident reconstructionist when it's like, how can you give information if you didn't even know where he was in the snow? Right. These three are weird. ATF Bryan says he just waves at Sergeant Good. That's it. He says hi to him, goes to his office upstairs, grabs his car keys, comes back down, moves the vehicles.

1:44:33There has been footage of him released of moving his cars around, and this man isn't just moving his cars around. He's just like full treasure hunting, opening the trunk, grabbing things. There's a lot going on for someone who just wants to go home and fall asleep ASAP. And at one point you can see him walking in the snow with his brightly lit phone up to his ear. It looks like he's on a phone call, but we don't know that for sure. He could be doing a voice memo. He could be listening to a voice memo. It just appears to be a phone call. But the problem is you cannot even ask him about it because this footage of him in the Canton Police Department was released during the second trial where ATF Bryan is not called to testify.

1:45:11The government does not call him to testify and the defense I don't think they want to risk it. Oh it was like somebody else released it during the second trial but they can't ask Bryan for any more information about it. It's admitted into evidence but they can't say hey Bryan who are you on the phone with? ATF Bryan says after all of that he just goes home and quote again it was a long day it just seemed like it dragged on forever but i think i did what i typically do after being out having a couple of drinks i had something else to eat and i believe i might have had another couple of drinks and laid on the couch or the bed typically if i fall asleep on the couch i wake up and go to the bedroom i don't know what location i was in at that point regardless he says he falls asleep and he doesn't wake up until his phone starts blowing up at 6 30 in the morning most of the calls are coming from two people chief berkowitz and brian albert why the fuck they're calling him for exactly atf brian chooses not to call chief berkowitz back but he calls brian albert back chief berkowitz is his bestie bestie yeah but he calls brian albert back yeah and his reasoning for this is well chief berkowitz is an early riser and typically when he's working that day we had a friendship where we would just kind of check on each other in the mornings we just call in the mornings.

1:46:26So I just kind of blew it off. Like, you know, why are you calling me this early? But when I saw Brian Albert calling me, that kind of caused some concern. So he's like, it's not that I knew Brian Albert had something to tell me. It's that he just doesn't wake up early. We don't talk like that. Whereas I talk to Chief Berkowitz every single morning. So this is a casual phone call I was getting. This, this was alarming to me. That's why I picked his phone call over his. So, you know, he was out with me all day. We both had the same long day. I was concerned at that point so he picks up the call he talks to brian albert and that's when he's found he finds out that john o 'keefe was found laying on the lawn outside atf brian says that in that moment he was very confused none of this was making sense because john o 'keefe and the defendant never showed up he says it didn't make sense so he gets dressed rushes over to 34 fairview where a few of the mick mick albert family members have gathered atf brian says the energy was just distraught he ends up staying for about an hour and he doesn't really recall with 100 certainty what else he did but he's off that day he's off january 29th 2022 he just found out that someone that he is friends with passed away yeah what would you do on your off day would you go grieve would you go mourn would you spend time with your family because you're like i i need i'm sad he goes on his off day to the office?

1:47:54to Canton Police Station he doesn't recall how long he was there or what time he was there from but he wasn't on duty that day he's not working that day he doesn't go home to grieve he doesn't sleep he doesn't run errands he goes directly from 34 Fairview to Canton Police Department ATF Bryan says he just stopped by but the defense argues that his key card shows access all the way from 9am to 5pm brian is like well that i i could have left and come back i could have like left and periodically kept coming back all day you could have and then they're like okay but you were still there for a long time at that point atf brian meets with some of the state troopers that have now just been assigned to the case trooper proctor and trooper buchanik both of whom he knows ATF Bryan testifies So I was familiar with Trooper Buchanek Evidently I was reminded by Trooper Proctor That I had met with him before I think I had helped him on a gun recovery That he made but I didn't remember him He says that he's not close with either of them Just seen Buchanek At a local gym A few times Saw him at a bar once Where ATF Bryan bought him a drink Introduced himself and said hi to Trooper Buchanek's Kids at a sporting event probably worked with him before, but they're not close.

1:49:15They barely know each other. ATF Bryan says, I wouldn't classify that as socializing, more being friendly. And that's that. Nothing else of particular value has been noted by the Honorable Brian Higgins. Also, ATF Bryan testifies that he knows the name of Colin Albert. He knows that he's one of Chris Albert's sons. However, if Colin Albert were to walk into the courtroom today, he would have not a single clue that that is Colin Albert. ATF Bryan testifies that he does not know what Colin Albert looks like and he just feels the need to throw that out there a lot of people just don't like his testimony everything boils down to if I did that if I knew that I would have done that with one netizen writing they kill me these witnesses kill me when they act like they don't understand the questions then you have Bryan Albert the homeowner homeowner Bryan Bryan Albert is sitting on the witness stand dressed like a defendant, white collared shirt, tie, sweater jacket on top.

1:50:13We're making a comeback here. Brian Albert retained counsel, which is not a bad thing to do. It is crazy how attorneys will make people look bad for hiring attorneys. And I'm like, you are also an attorney. I don't understand. But it is odd in the sense that Brian Albert cannot tell you anything about this attorney. I'm not talking privileged conversations. I'm talking Brian Albert does not recall does not remember the date even the month even the season even the year in which he hired this attorney why is he just trying to play like i don't recall i don't recall i don't recall yeah but i think he's also trying to be like if it's too early on that looks suspicious ah i see i see like though even those information that that's like so harmless he's like i'm just not going to say anything yeah i don't know i don't recall do you have amnesia he also conveniently forgets that he talked to the prosecution even just a few hours ago the direct examination of brian albert is exactly what you expect he testifies that he comes to the house he lets chloe out from upstairs goes outside to use the restroom hangs out a little bit in the kitchen chloe does and then brian sends chloe back upstairs to go to sleep in their master bedroom And then he hangs out with everyone everybody leaves he goes upstairs knocks out Falls asleep and does not wake up until his sister-in-law Jen McKay bursts into the room The cross-examination of Brian Albert just starts spicy.

1:51:43It sets the tone for the entire cross

1:51:56Alan Jackson starts off by asking Brian, Brian Albert How many times he's testified before? Because he's a cop, it's probably around 100 times Cops testify in trials Jackson asks him When was the last time you spoke to Prosecutor Lally The lead prosecutor before Friday Like when you began testifying When was the last time? The last time I spoke to him, I believe, was on a conference call around the time of my grand jury testimony, which would have been in 2022, two years prior. It's not uncommon for you to prep witnesses. This is a very normal thing. The government will call a witness and they will prep a witness.

1:52:33They'll even do like mock cross examinations of like, this is what the defense attorney is probably going to ask you. So let's see how you hold up. You had not spoken to Mr. Lally since 2022? I don't remember speaking with Mr. Lally since that time. No. What about anyone from the DA's office? No. But Brian also goes on to say that he did watch a video of everybody at the Waterfall Bar to prep for this trial. That was back in April of 2022? No, that was to prep for this trial. With whom did you prep with this trial for? Mr. Lally. I'm confused. I thought you had not spoken with Mr. Lally since April of 2022.

1:53:12except for the prep of this trial and not. Okay, that was my question, Mr. Albert. Okay, I misunderstood your question. I apologize. Did you prep for this trial with Mr. Lally? Yes. When? Approximately a few weeks ago. Mr. Albert, about 45 seconds ago, I asked you, have you spoken with Mr. Lally before your testimony in this proceeding? And your answer was No, I have not. Did you not understand my question? I did not. What was confusing about it? That's crazy, right? Meanwhile, you're a cop standing here playing dumb. Like, oh, I didn't understand your question. What was your question again? Repeat that.

1:53:51I didn't understand. I didn't even know I had a prep. Like, it's like, if out of anyone, you know what the system is like. You know exactly what's going on. I was expecting you to ask if I had prepped with Mr. Lally. I didn't hear a prep with Mr. Lally. And so I didn't know what you were referring to. What's the difference between speaking and prepping? No, there is no difference. I just misunderstood your question. That's all. A lot of netizens feel like this already broke credibility for Brian Albert because he's being so evasive and fishy with his words. A lot of netizens believe what is happening?

1:54:23Like, what is the literal point in lying about this when this is so common? But one comment reads, What if it was a very silent prep? Like they never spoke. obviously being sarcastic and everyone in this family and circle of friends is just evasive for no reason later the defense starts asking brian albert about how close he was with karen how well he knows her he says he's never met her well maybe he met her once in a bar then he makes it appear like they don't even really know each other aside from their first first names except just a week before john o 'keefe's death there's a photo of chris albert brian albert john o 'keefe and a guy named Tim Daly in a bar together.

1:55:02And the person that took that photo is Karen Reed. Attorney Jackson is asking Brian Albert, Karen Reed took the photo. You're literally staring at her, correct? I don't know who took the photo. Who do you think took the photo, sir? I have no idea who took the photo. Could it have been Karen Reed? Objection sustained. Netizens are having split reactions to this part of the testimony. Some believe defense is grasping at straws. Others are joking. Is the defense also going to point out that Brian's hand seems to be clenched into a fist in that picture? Others think it's frustrating how much amnesia this entire town has.

1:55:36And suddenly they think it casts a lot of reasonable doubt in the case. People say they just don't like Brian's energy. They say it's kind of a pure talent that he has to be able to give such infuriatingly vague answers to every single question. Some people are commenting, what's up with amnesia in this town? Is there something in the water? I think their evasiveness is only make them look more sus If you don't remember to just try your best I think whenever Karen Reed gets brought up They try to distance so hard That it made it seem more shady Just say, oh, I met her I met her twice, three times, four times Instead of like, I don't recall Maybe, I don't know her I don't know And they have to be evasive about everything And it's very weird for the jurors Because, I mean, these people they seem to hate the defense but the jurors don't you're just being combative for no reason i wonder if this strategy would have worked in like a traditional case that's not this high profile i think so right like you can get away with these things you're like well that could be the case i think so right now some people say well yeah he's being evasive because every single question coming from the defense sounds accusatory of course everyone's on edge some people are saying the defense team they're so hostile now maybe it's because just like brian higgins brian albert does something that pisses off the defense he throws away his phone he gets rid of his phone as well both the bryans have now gotten rid of their phones and their cops what exactly happened like the day of the day after what's going on no not even the but then also like throwing away the phone is kind of dumb because there's a record of everything right there is a cell record, but you don't have text message records.

1:57:24When you pull a lot of data, text messages are hard to pull from the service provider. You'll see who you're texting, but you won't get the exact messages. And the cell data will show incoming or outgoing call, right? And they'll give you duration. But it will not indicate if that duration went to voicemail, if that duration was on the phone. Right. Okay. So Michael Proctor, the no-no-nudes Michael Proctor. Yes. They pulled his phone. Yes. They took his phone. The feds. The feds. But Brian Higgins and Brian Albert tossed the phone. And the timing of this is going to be crazy. Now, Attorney Jackson asks Brian Albert, Sir, you had an iPhone with the number ending in 0888 back in January 2022, did you not?

1:58:14Yes. Mr. Albert, you were notified by the Commonwealth that on September 23rd, 2022, a judge specifically ordered that you were to preserve that phone. I do not remember getting that letter. No, subsequent to me upgrading my phone, I spoke to the DA's office. So after that, they told me via a phone call that that was the case. So your testimony is that you never received a notice that I just read, but you did talk to the DA and he told you, Lally told you, that you were on notice that you were to preserve your phone. Was that the conversation, sir? I don't have the exact date of that conversation.

1:58:46I'm not sure. Who did you talk to on the phone exactly? Was it Mr. Lally alone? Was it a conference call? It was a conference call. Brian says he believes other witnesses involved in this case were on the conference call being told the same thing. Can you name some of those witnesses for us? I believe it was Jen McCabe, Matt McCabe. I believe Brian Higgins. I believe maybe somebody else. I can't recall. Did you volunteer? Oh my goodness. I just upgraded my phone last week. Conveniently, I don't have that phone anymore. No. You didn't say that to Mr. Lally? No. So you just took the information that he gave you and hung up the phone and went about your business?

1:59:21Yes. Without notifying him that the very phone that he just ordered you to preserve had just been destroyed days earlier. Destroyed? Destroyed. Well, that's what the defense is saying. Brian is saying the phone wasn't destroyed. I upgraded the phone. The data was destroyed, sir. I didn't destroy any data on my phone. Where's the phone? He doesn't have it. We don't know when? Yeah. So the Brian Higgins, you're saying he tossed it into military... Yes. Okay, are you going to explain more on that? Yes. Oh, okay, okay. Now, Mr. Albert, I upgraded my phone. When you upgrade your phone, you know that the phone is set back to factory reset before your new phone is handed to you, correct?

2:00:02Happens every time. I don't know that. How many times have you upgraded your phone? Multiple times. Every single time you upgraded, you know that the phone prior, the data is destroyed on it, correct? So it seems like he's trading the phone in. Usually my contacts come over and my photos come over, so. That's a backup. No, I don't think that that's a backup, but okay. Irrespective, you didn't tell Mr. Lally that you had gotten rid of the phone. I was not asked that, so I didn't tell him that. I see. You felt like if you weren't asked, you didn't need to volunteer it, even though the conference call was specifically about preserving your phone pursuant to a judge's order.

2:00:38What was the question? You didn't offer to Mr. Lally that you had gotten rid of the very phone that he was telling you had to be preserved due to the judge's order. I did not. When did you upgrade your phone? I upgraded my phone in September, third week of September, maybe around the 22nd. I can't be sure of the exact date. Wait, but when you upgrade, if they transfer the phone, Yes. The text message gets transferred too. Yes, but he did not do that. Oh, he just restarted a new phone. That is freaking weird. So according to you, you got... Wait, that is so weird. That's beyond weird. Hello? Am I the only one?

2:01:19That's crazy. No, it's weird. That is so crazy. It's crazy. So according to you, you got rid of the phone that was the subject of a court order preservation the day before it was ordered. So the court order came out 23rd. He got rid of his phone September 22nd. Yeah, the timing. The timing. Did someone warn him? Did he get a heads up? Wow. Rephrase the question, please. He's saying that. Usually the judge says that, okay? the day before this all happened you upgraded your phone and got rid of it in total correct i upgraded my phone around the 22nd yes you are aware that the very data that you were ordered to preserve would have been destroyed according to you the day before the court order correct rephrase your question or ask me a question are you claiming that you got rid of your phone on the 22nd i upgraded my phone around that i'm not sure if that's the exact date but yes so it could have been after the 22nd.

2:02:14I don't think it was after the 22nd, but it could have been the 24th. No. Could have been the 25th. No. So you're absolutely sure that you could not have upgraded your phone and gotten rid of it anytime after the 23rd when this judge ordered that it to be preserved. No. Because you knew that if you got rid of that phone after you had been notified that you were ordered by a court order to preserve it, you would be committing a felony. Objection sustained. Yeah, I'm getting riled up because of these, uh, Auntie Bev is gonna come in episode four. There's a lot of words people are saying about Auntie Bev.

2:02:50So now you claim that you got rid of your phone September 22nd, 2022, hours before you were ordered to preserve it. That's your testimony? Yes. Is that just a coincidence? September 4th was my birthday. The phone was broken and failing. I'd planned on getting a new phone that just happens to be the day that I got it. Happy birthday. Was that a coincidence? That's what you're saying today to these jurors? Just a coincidence? Yes. Did you and Brian Higgins agree with each other to both get rid of your phones? No. Jackson brings up the fact that in previous testimony, Brian says he recalls having conversation about the phones with ATF Brian, but he doesn't really recall much more.

2:03:32Now he's being asked that. Like, didn't you have conversations with ATF Brian about getting rid of your phones? And he says, I don't recall what time. Mr. Albert, I don't care when it was. I'm asking you, have you had a conversation with Brian Higgins about your phones, respectively? We may have. I just, I can't remember that conversation specifically. Who did he tell that to? FBI? Yeah. Okay. So Brian Albert gets rid of his phone. No clue where it is. Brian Higgins gets rid of his phone, literally drives it to a military base to dump it. But then how do we have all these text messages between Brian Higgins, Karen Reed, Brian Higgins, and John O 'Keefe.

2:04:10Well, Karen Reed's phone was taken, John O 'Keefe's phone was taken. So is it just from their phones? No. Brian Higgins gives over those text messages. He uses a federal device to extract message threads. So a lot of feds, they have these machines where, okay, when the feds go through your phone, that's, this is a huge thing, not just the feds, any law enforcement officer, when they go through your phone, they They hook it up to a computer or a machine, and it's a mirrored image of your phone. This guy was going through Karen's phone physically looking for nudes. So that's, like, already bad. Wait, what do you mean upload your phone to a cloud and then they can access everything?

2:04:49It's not, like, uploaded to a cloud. It's just connected to a device. I think it's so that everything is tracked. Yeah. Like, you don't just, like, scroll through someone's phone like that. Interesting. Okay. So he's just going through Karen's phone like that, which is already bad. And he's looking for nudes. You're saying he was going through Karen's phone without this official government monitor. He's just like browsing. Yeah. Wow. Now, Brian Higgins goes to one of these machines and you can extract certain data. And this is very important, especially with suspects who have attorneys, because there's like different panels as well.

2:05:22Sometimes if there's a lot of, and this was a problem with the Sean Combs case, and it's very technical. Let's say I have a phone where I have tons of communication with my attorney on there about this specific case. It gets turned over to the police. They immediately see tons of privileged information between myself and my counsel. Typically, they would send this phone to a third party attorney who will take out all of the privileged information, give that back to me and my counsel, and then give the non-privileged information to the law enforcement agencies. but you're saying that's like the police have to follow this code of law and be ethical and be yeah not browsing looking for nudes and looking for yeah i mean it's typically easier in the sense of like you it's easy to prove that you have lots of privileged communications and then you would bring it up with the judge and it would become a whole ordeal right but i mean they just be doing whatever yeah now brian higgins goes to one of these machines and you can extract certain data So like that's the whole point.

2:06:24You can take certain data with its metadata. So you can take certain text threads with all the metadata. And that's it. You're not doing a copy of the entire phone. You're just selecting this specific text message thread between person A and person B. So Brian Higgins goes to this machine, gets two text message threads. One with Karen Reed and one with John O 'Keefe. And he submits them himself to Buchanik, the state trooper. This is before his phone was destroyed or after? Yeah, and then immediately after he destroys his phone. What's his explanation? Because if he doesn't give these text messages, they're going to want his phone.

2:07:04Right. They're going to say, you're weird, you're sus, we need to go through your phone. So he's trying to get ahead of it, is what a lot of people believe. I'm not in Brian Higgins' mind, thankfully. I think I would not like it there. But he says, I thought it was important because I've had communications with both of them and I wanted to be fully transparent. He says he was never asked for these. He voluntarily gave them over to the state troopers. But here's what's interesting. Trooper Buchanek is on the stand and his whole testimony is in the next one. He says, I explained to Mr. Higgins that we have in our custody and we'll eventually get to both the defendant's phone and Mr.

2:07:39O 'Keefe's phone. So to protect Brian Higgins' integrity as a law enforcement official, I told him that the information he was providing to us better be true and accurate or else he would suffer the consequences aka giving him a chance to rectify anything he didn't turn over basically he's saying hey we're gonna go through the text messages soon they gotta match up to what we have in their phones okay wink wink yeah because i want to protect what did he say protect his integrity as a law enforcement official now atf brian is asked during the cross-examination, you would agree that searching electronic devices and phones is an incredibly important investigative tool that modern investigators use, correct?

2:08:22I've utilized phone data during the course of my investigations at times, yes. You've probably even written search warrants for them, right? Things of that nature, right? Yes. So how do you get rid of information on your cell phone? I mean, I think there's different ways that you could possibly, you could wipe your phone. Another avenue, you could break the SIM card in half. Correct, yeah. that's exactly what he does he breaks it in half and gets rid of it he says it was beaten it was broken up already i already had a new phone and the only explanation is i threw it away that's it later he says i had a target of an investigation i was working with he's like this is the reason i changed my phone okay i was doing this undercover investigation the target of that investigation said he knew my personal cell phone number and i was like how did you know he said he obtained it through open source internet.

2:09:13So I went online and lo and behold, my phone number is out there. So I had to get a new phone number. And he's like, quit lying with me. Quit playing with me because you waited three months afterwards to change your phone number from the time that that target of your investigation told you that your phone number is open source. So where's the phone? I don't have the phone anymore. You destroyed that phone, haven't you? No, I threw the phone away. Well, that's destroying the phone, isn't it? I had every right to do that. I didn't ask you about your rights. I asked you about what you did. You destroyed the phone by removing the SIM card, correct?

2:09:46Did you do that? Did you pull the SIM card out? To the best of my recollection, if I did take the SIM card out, I would have thrown it away. If I was going to take it out, I would break it or cut it. But I did not wipe the phone. I did not take anything else off of it, but I was just going to throw the phone away. That's what I would have done. You were aware that there was a court order that was to not alter, delete, or destroy in any way manipulate your phone or any electronic data associated with it, correct? September 30th, 2022 for you? and you were served a notice on September 30th, 2022?

2:10:14That's correct. Isn't it true that in another hearing, you explained that on September 29th, the day before you claim you got that notice, you changed phone carriers? Both of them the day before, one upgraded the phone, the other one changed his whole carrier.

2:10:36But like, how did they find out about this, right? You think it's, oh, wow. Wow. So you made the decision to dispose of your phone without consulting anybody about the decision to throw out your phone, correct? Yes. So the timing is suspicious. Yeah. Which means potentially they have some sort of connection with the inside, right? And it makes me feel like if the FBI wasn't involved in this case, I don't know if they will win this case. Because the Campton, Boston, Massachusetts, the judge, DA, everyone's in the same team. Allegedly. Allegedly, right? Yeah. It's very scary. Yeah. Yeah, it's very scary.

2:11:28I also think him getting on this case because regardless of what you think of Alan Jackson and his previous current clients, he is a big name. I think that did bring a lot more attention as well. And I think it brought a lot of pressure because he's not just someone that's going to walk in and be like, oh, everything's weird. Let me just clock in, clock out. Yeah. I mean, not that David Yonetti or any of the other defense teams were, but he's pretty nationally known. Yeah. Now, it is weird that Higgins just turns in these text messages and the state troopers don't look further into ATF Bryan. In any other case, any other situation, a very strong motive that cops love going after is the jealousy motive.

2:12:13But Trooper Buchanik, one of the state investigators, he's asked during his trial, he explains the messages as they were friendly communications. Again, I don't want to put a label on it. They were communications between acquaintances and people that know each other. he's asked if the texts were flirtatious to which he says as far as flirtatious i would have to take a look at the content of it for certain terms that would support that label and the defense is like okay sure here you go they gave him a pile of text messages between brian higgins and karen reed play stupid games win stupid prizes now he's reading through it and many netizens argue buchanik is stupid he's also incredibly committed to his role in all of this because after reading these text messages with a straight face, his lips are becoming progressively more thin as the trial wears on.

2:12:59He is asked, would you consider those text messages as you reviewed them from Brian Higgins as being flirtatious or romantic in nature? I would not categorize them to that extent. Certain parts. He's asked to point out which parts. The you're hot, talking about banging, hooking up what word would you use to describe them if not flirtatious my opinion is that this is an angry girlfriend trying to set up a hookup and that's it what does that even mean as a reasonable objective investigator is there a possible scenario for brian higgins to be jealous about john o 'keefe there is a possibility there but i didn't see it based off the totality of the evidence the length these people will go to cover each other yeah like when the whole nation is looking at them like why are you doing this you look so dumb right now yeah his nickname on the internet is officer bukkake and uh it's gonna become a thing because one of these witnesses goes on the stand it's in the next episode and she's like i forget his name i think officer bukkake this is what this is not real none of this is real but it's very real and it makes me very depressed there is a clip from the waterfall bar that the defense wants everybody to watch and it is of brian albert and atf brian pretending to throw punches at each other they're like play fighting i don't know why they're doing this they're acting like high school football players some say they're acting like they're play fighting others saying they look like they're practicing fighting.

2:14:41These are the men that fight invisible ops. They're just like boxing the air at all hours of the day. Brian Albert seemingly seems like the mentor. There is CCTV footage where they're squatting. They're doing like punching stances. They're like air punching. At one point, Brian Albert throws ATF Brian in a bear hug. Then Brian, ATF Brian, pretends to push your knee into his stomach. It's just a lot. Brian Albert testifies, we're just fooling around. We're just pushing each other around, fooling around. Oh, so like play fighting? I don't think I would call it play fighting. Practice fighting techniques?

2:15:19I wouldn't call it that. If it's not fighting techniques, how would you describe it? Just joking, being silly, just fooling around. We were pushing each other, fooling around, joking. Nicole, Brian's husband also saw this, and she says, they were just, I saw them fooling around with each other. I want to know at what kind of setup you're gonna be like okay let's just fool around real quick you know let me show you how to how to take a jab like you know what i mean like what's the setup the defense says the setup is hey john o 'keefe's coming what are you gonna do to him right right that's what i'm saying anything else doesn't make sense tell me brian like what made you guys decide to do this fooling around if not that then what right yeah miss albert when your husband drinks does he often and get into sort of these practice sparring practice fighting stances.

2:16:08Is that common for him? No, I don't think so. So this type of behavior was unusual for him. But I think they were just fooling around. I don't think there was much anything much to it. She's just like, damn it. I should have said that. That's very common. He does it every day. To me as well. To everybody. Yeah. My question was, is it unusual for you to see him sort of practice fighting? I wouldn't call it practice fighting. I think they were just fooling around. And yeah, maybe I've seen him do that other times, but it was just fooling around. They weren't practicing. The defense tries to point out, one, sure, Brian Albert is older now, but he is a highly trained fighter.

2:16:39That's how they phrase it. Nicole Albert highly disagrees. But aside from being a Boston police officer, he's trained in the Marine Corps previously, and he's a trained boxer. But Brian Albert says that this is just joking around. It's just him fooling around. But Brian Albert also states when he's asked about Brian Higgins, he's like, hey, is ATF Brian your friend? He's like, divine friends. you're fine define friends he's like they're fine friends we just kind of know each other from work i don't know if i would call him friends the defense is like you've known this man for 15 years you just took a four hour long road trip with him he came over to your house you're fooling around in a bar and you would not categorize yourself as friends to which he finally is like we are friends we are friends yeah we're friends yo this is crazy you know like they they interview people every day now tables flipped all of a sudden so bad so bad i saw one netizen put it way better than i can explain it it's extra insulting because they're evil and they're dumb and they're getting away with it so it's like just spitting in the public's face over and over again just because what your law enforcement he says yeah we're good friends we're just fooling around You just said you weren't friends.

2:18:00Define friends, right? Meanwhile, ATF Brian does not get the memo because he describes Brian Albert as he's a good friend, he's a co-worker, you know, I've been working very closely with his unit. I would say he's a good friend. I mean, there's no secrets here, right? He's my friend. Netizens comment, it's like pulling teeth to get regular answers from these people. Nevertheless, the defense states whether or not they were play fighting has importance and they're like, Brian, you're a fighter, aren't you? He's like, nah A side note, there are rumors online that Brian Albert had gotten into a fight with another cop at a Christmas party before It seems like he has a propensity for fighting As well as this one Colin Albert?

2:18:42ATF Brian had allegedly told the feds again that Chief Berkowitz is also scared of Brian Albert So maybe he is a fighter But he really tries to downplay this during the trial to the point where Attorney Jackson tries to break it down what was your job title? Sergeant Detective. That means you not only respond to incidents, you actually conduct investigations as a detective, correct? Yes, primarily fugitive investigations. You have additional training in order to hold the title and hold the position as a detective, is that right? Yes. Not just regular patrol officer, you have to have special training to get the rank of detective, is that right?

2:19:15Yes. As a sergeant detective, that's above a regular detective indeed, because you're supervising detectives, is that right? Yes. You're also trained in techniques, obviously. Any detective would be trained in techniques that a culprit might use, suspects might use, correct? No. So in all your training, 30 years of a Boston police officer and a sergeant detective, you don't have any training in, I don't know, what techniques criminals might use to cover up their conduct? No, I have never gone to training for criminals to cover up conduct, no. He also downplays all of his physical training. He acts like he's just a patrol officer not that anything's wrong with the patrol officer but he's just like i'm not that fit i'm not that strong i'm not a big guy i'm weak i'm dainty and frail in the reality show boston's finest in episode three there's a whole thirst trap level boxing segment of brian albert just going at it at the boxing gym and it's a voiceover of him saying you have to have undercover police officers actually going out posing as buyers and making drug buys it's dangerous work anything can happen and he's like double fisting a small punching bag he clearly knows what he's doing and again netizens think why does he have to be so evasive you would imagine that a lot of these law enforcement officers are somewhat physically trained one comment reads if you look very closely their noses are growing others say come on this is so bad he can't even remember what he talked about an hour ago some say brian albert is like a slippery snake others say karen reed should get the max penalty for putting these people through all of this.

2:20:49This is awful. Maybe he knows that being suspicious will not be charged. Yeah. But if he says anything, you know, then he's cooked. Yeah. And I do think that it's extra cautious because the feds. Yeah. Yeah. And in the reality show, Brian Albert even says, it's very rewarding when someone commits a crime or they hurt somebody and you're the person that actually catches them. It's probably one of the best things you can do. At the end of the show, Boston's Finest, they end with a voiceover and it says, the decision to become a police officer is never an easy one. But for these men and women of the Boston Police Department, in the end, it was the only decision they could make.

2:21:36Some joined the force to protect the streets where they grew up. Some to say thanks to the new city that welcomed them in. Every day, they take to the streets without fail, carrying with them the love they have for their family. The memories of the friends they've lost. All their hopes, all their fears. They do it. They do it for the city of Boston. That was Brian talking? No. Narrator. With September 4th, 2023, before the first trial for Karen Reed, Brian Albert is no longer doing that because he retires from Boston Police Department. Okay. Nicole Albert, Brian's wife, fellow homeowner of 34 Fairview Road, testifies.

2:22:15this is jen mccabe's sister she's also a part-time lunch lady that's how she calls it during direct she says you know john came into the waterfall she doesn't really know john o 'keefe she says i didn't know him that well i think i'd met him only once maybe twice through my sister brief interactions i think when he actually first walked in i didn't recognize him i think i said to someone oh who's that because they were kind of walking towards our table and someone said oh that's john o 'keefe and i said oh i'd never met karen um i'd only ever met john once or twice and it's interesting because your husband is on the same police department as john o 'keefe but she says i don't believe he ever worked with my husband i don't believe they ever crossed paths at work and to be fair uh boston police department is about 3 000 officers wow so it does seem feasible if they don't cross paths often now nicole says she doesn't have a single interaction with karen she says i have none i don't believe we spoke or we even introduced ourselves or anything i don't think we spoke at all in fact nicole states in her testimony she didn't even know that john and Karen were coming over.

2:23:14The rest of the evening, they go home. It's relatively normal. Nicole says that she just started cleaning the kitchen when she got home. And everybody left. She stayed cleaning the kitchen a little more while her husband, Brian Albert, went upstairs to watch TV in bed. And Elizabeth Little is asking her, Miss Albert, what is the first thing you remember waking up to in the morning of January 29th? My sister just bombing into my bedroom. did you hear any fire trucks that morning i did not did you hear any ambulances i did not you didn't see any flashing lights of emergency vehicles out to your bedroom window i didn't my blinds were shut my curtains were closed i didn't see anything nicole and brian albert will both report that jen burst into their room hysterical and it's kind of interesting because if you watch the dash cam footage if you listen to the 911 call or the testimonies of anyone at the scene that morning nobody describes jen as being hysterical except these two yeah she was so calm she was like i know i know yes even the 911 call she was calm the only person that was not calm was karen reed yes so they're like she was hysterical bursting in through the door now that's weird because they both testify that chloe slept in the room with them that night uh-huh If I were Jen, I know my sister has a dog.

2:24:38Right. A 70-pound German Shepherd that doesn't like strangers, maybe perhaps is startled easily. I'm not bursting into your room. Yeah, yeah. Also, if my brother-in-law is a cop, I'm not bursting into your room. Right, right, right. To wake you up from a sleep. and by this point that jen is bursting into their room john o 'keefe has already been taken into the ambulance so it doesn't make sense the only time that that would make sense that for her to be bursting into their room is nobody's there they need to save john he's a first responder yeah it's weird caitlin albert the eldest albert daughter caitlin works for the massachusetts attorney general's office in the medicaid fraud division she is the eldest child of the main alberts at this point she would have been 33 years old and she testifies that that morning on the 28th she meets up with her mom nicole albert and her aunt julie albert and they go to the waterfall together so julie nicole and caitlin and caitlin shows up with her fiance tristan ah i see who does not want to be there okay there's a blizzard coming in he had gotten offered to do some snow plowing so what he's going to do most of the night is while everybody's asleep during the blizzard he's going to stay up and he's going to get a call maybe around 3 a.m they're gonna be like hey come to this street and plow this street like his job his side gig it's like a side gig okay so that's why he ends up leaving the bar early he's like bye caitlin love you.

2:26:23I'm leaving. Leaves the bar. And Caitlin says she remembers at the waterfall, she asked her mom, who's John O 'Keefe? Caitlin says that she does not know who John O 'Keefe is. But a man walks into the bar with who now she knows is Karen Reed. And he seemed very friendly with their group of family and friends. Her mom tells her, oh, that's John. Which I mean, Nicole just said that someone told her that's John. So I don't know if they're playing telephone or what but her mom tells her it's John and Caitlin instantly knows it's him because everybody in Canton knows about his niece and nephew being raised by him after his sister passed but she doesn't really talk to John or Karen at all nothing eventful happens at the bar Caitlin goes home with her parents and the same things are repeated about the birthday party everyone's in the kitchen everyone can see everyone just hanging out good times everybody leaves one by one Caitlin doesn't hear anything strange she doesn't see anything strange everyone leaves and eventually Caitlin is the last to go.

2:27:19So by the end of the night inside the house are just Brian Albert, Nicole Albert, Brian Albert Jr. and Chloe the dog and John O 'Keefe outside. But Caitlin leaves. What time? Around two. Her boyfriend Tristan comes to pick her up, which netizens think that's so weird because Tristan just left the waterfall because he has to wake up overnight to go plow the roads but then he leaves the waterfall leaves caitlin there and then caitlin goes back home to 34 fairview for like an hour and a half and then gets picked up it's kind of and they're again they didn't see anything nobody saw john o 'keefe outside no and at this point it's not even really snowing correct or barely barely snowing uh well it's snowing but the snow is just starting to accumulate.

2:28:14Like you can still see grass is what a lot of them testify. That's crazy. Yeah. It's not like whiteout conditions until the next morning. Right. And how do all of them explain that? They just weren't looking. They weren't looking. They couldn't see it. It's dark outside. But they see lots of other things outside such as tire tracks in the snow from Karen's car allegedly speeding up to hit John O 'Keefe. now the defense starts into something else though when they start questioning caitlin albert she's very close friends with firefighter paramedic katie mclaughlin now during the cross-examination she's asked who is katie mclaughlin and she responds katie mclaughlin is a girl who i'm in the same age and we went to high school together we graduated the same year we have a couple of mutual friends we interact with some of the same people socially i don't really i can't think of a time possibly ever where her and I ever hung out one-on-one individually and so more of like a friend of a mutual friend there is a lot of just explanation here just non-stop I mean the defense is bringing up photos and she just has to keep repeating this is like a mutual friend of a friend of a friend and like I barely know this girl and then there's like pictures of them in small group settings at her dorm when she was in college and then people she's just like I mean just like a mutual friend like a friend of a friend and then even in these group photos I would understand if it's one thing if they're on the other side of this massive group photo every single time but a lot of the times they're right next to each other it just doesn't make sense like it looks a little bit strange and she keeps over explaining that they just have mutual friends which is fine if that's the only connection that she has but caitlin albert is also pretty close with michael proctor's wife she's not on here she's gonna be on here in the next one Elizabeth Proctor.

2:30:08Okay, what's their relationship? Just friendly friends. What? Okay. She says that when Michael Proctor starts interviewing her about this case, she doesn't tell him, hey, I'm friends with your wife or anything, just nothing. It's the least of her concerns. Like, she doesn't care, right? And she really doesn't because the defense have other things that they're harping on her about. Another strange thing is that Caitlin's mom, Nicole, testified previously before the grand jury that Caitlyn left the Albert residence at around 12 midnight. She was one of the first people to leave. And now she's testifying that Caitlyn was the very last person to leave.

2:30:46Same thing with Brian. The story changes. It's weird. To which the defense asks Brian Albert, were you trying to cover for Caitlyn so your daughter would not be wrapped up in this investigation? Because if she left early, it's likely there would be some time overlap to when Karen's vehicle is outside or something. I don't follow. If she left around 12, she would have seen more outside. She would have to go outside. Karen's car is outside. There's another car that's outside. It might be just a little bit trickier. They're saying that it's easier story-wise for her to leave later. Yes. So she stays in the house.

2:31:27She never looks outside the window. She doesn't see Karen's car pull up. She sees nothing. She hears nothing. And then by the time she leaves She doesn't look at the front lawn and she just leaves Okay, but I mean regardless just the changing of the story What's going on? To which netizens believe that Caitlin had every intention to sleep over at 34 Fairview Netizens are like it's not even the time change. That's weird Netizens believe that Caitlin Albert had every intention to sleep over at her parents house That's why Tristan goes home from the waterfall. And she's like, I'm just going to sleep over at my parents' house.

2:32:04And then something happens. So now she's like, okay, you got to come pick me up because I can't be here when the cops get here tomorrow or whenever they get here. That's the allegation. That's the theory. That's the suspicion. There are also speculations that she left the house that night with Chloe. What? Yeah. Yeah. That's why there's no barking, maybe? And Jen McCabe says she didn't see Chloe. That's true. You can easily hear a dog barking in the house. Easily. So where did Chloe go? Oh, my God. And why would they not want Chloe there? Right. Wow. Now, it doesn't make sense that Tristan Morris would just come pick her up.

2:32:51So he is also brought to the stand. and he is bizarrely hostile during the cross-examination. The defense attorney is just trying to ask him, were you at 34 Fairview Road in Canton at 1.45 in the morning on January 29th, 2022? I don't remember the time. Was it wildly different than 1.45 in the morning or was it somewhat close to that? I'm not going to make up a time, I don't remember. Was it 9 p.m. on the 28th? I don't remember times. So if I asked you, if you were there to pick up Caitlin on 9 p.m. on January 28th, you couldn't say if that's true or false. no because I'm not gonna make up a time I'm not gonna make up a time what time were you at the waterfall I don't remember it was nighttime what time did you leave the waterfall I don't remember would you leave at 5 p.m.

2:33:35I don't remember could it have been five in the morning I don't know I feel like it's a relatively easy testimony like in the eyes of the jurors I don't think anyone really cares about this guy all you did is pick up your girlfriend just tell us if there's a dog in the car tell us why you picked up your girlfriend that's it and get out of here but he yeah he's getting very defensive he doesn't remember anything at all he doesn't want to put himself at the time if there was something going on outside or not yeah he will like he will respond i don't remember before the question is done being asked and there were no obstructions between you and the front lawn blocking your view, correct?

2:34:18I wouldn't be staring at the grass, so no. I didn't ask you where you were staring. I was just asking if there were any obstructions. And the answer to that question is no. Later during redirect, Tristan is asked why he went back to get Caitlin if it wasn't part of the plan. Caitlin told him that she doesn't want to get snowed in at her parents' house. But this blizzard is not new information to anyone in the town of Canton. So it's weird. Tristan just responds to that. well, she's high maintenance and I didn't really want to have to deal with her. And now they're married. They got married after all of this.

2:34:55Brian Albert Jr. Birthday Brian. He sits down on the witness stand. Netizens do point out that he has very distinctive facial hair, but that is neither here nor there. He joined his father in wearing the defendant attire to the witness stand, collared shirt, sweater. But this biggest part about his testimony that's alarming is that the very first time that birthday brian despite being in the house that night and all morning while john's body is found outside in the front lawn the first time law enforcement officers talked to him interview him is 18 months after john's death a whole new calendar year it's in 2023 and that is done by proctor and birthday brian has a lawyer present and the interview is actually done at birthday brian's family attorney's office 18 months later yes what is going on it's not like people were trying to hide his existence there everybody knew he was there yeah it was his 23rd birthday he says that his friends come over julie and sarah and a few other girlfriends come over and his mom just got picked up by his aunt julie so julie picks up nicole caitlin and tristan go to the waterfall so now it's just birthday brian and all of his buddies at the house they order food from a place called dne pizza that is owned by chris and julie albert and they start getting drunk everybody's primary drink of choice is white claws now by 11 p.m most of his friends are gone so he says it's just me colin julie and sarah that's who's over when the albert parents and caitlin get home so these three are the first people to get home and as they're coming in they say colin is leaving he's like my ride is here my ride's coming back who's his ride a friend Allison McCabe Who is that again?

2:36:56Jen and Matt McCabe's daughter Jen and Matt McCabe's daughter Brian Albert's cousin on his mom's side Uh-huh And Colin is Brian Albert's cousin on his dad's side So technically Colin Albert and Allison McCabe are not cousins Right But they're basically cousins What? Oh and there's so many suspicious things And they are What? What? Yeah. Wow. And so he leaves and Brian says, you know, my mom came in. She just gets straight to cleaning. She likes to clean. I don't know why he says that. And she was in the kitchen picking up. He also says, eventually, JJ comes in. JJ? Jen? He calls her Auntie JJ, which JJ is also the nickname for John O 'Keefe from his nephew and niece.

2:37:43So Auntie JJ comes in. And it seems like Brian Albert Jr., birthday Brian, and Auntie JJ are very close. so they're very close uh huh I mean it seems like all the Alberts are close but it's weird because Birthday Brian and JJ seem close but Birthday Brian and Allison McCabe don't seem close because at one point Birthday Brian is asked about a group chat with all the cousins like a Snapchat group chat with all the cousins and they're like the defense attorney is like what about Allie McCabe is she on there and he's like no she's not an Albert okay yeah Birthday Brian testifies that he didn't see anyone else physically come inside the house after Auntie JJ and Matt McCabe.

2:38:25But he did poke his head towards the window and he did see a car outside. And the reason that he went to that window was because outside the house were Ryan Nagel, Heather Maxson, and Ricky. Ricky D. What? Ryan is Julie's brother. Uh-huh. And he's here to pick up Julie. And so Julie goes outside. Yeah. And Brian Albert looks out the window and he sees Ryan and Ricky's car, but he also sees another dark colored SUV who everyone presumes to be Karen Reed. And John O 'Keefe. Birthday Brian says he looks out the window twice, sees the dark SUV pull up and eventually keeps pulling up towards the flagpole, which is on the very right side of the property.

2:39:17He doesn't see anything strange. He doesn't hear screaming. He doesn't hear the sound of screeching tires, a collision. He doesn't see a man in the snow on the lawn. But he does at one point see tire tracks in the snow.

2:39:30He's looking past the lawn now and he can see tire tracks. And Jen McCabe later testifies that she also saw tire tracks. But nobody sees a 210-pound, 6 '1 man in the lawn. Yeah, that makes no sense. Who's Heather and Ricky? Ryan Nagel's friend, Ricky D, is actually the one driving. It's Ricky D's car. Okay. Now, Heather is Ryan Nagel's girlfriend at the time. They're no longer together. Okay. So there's three people in the car. Yeah. Okay. Now, Brian says, as for inside the house, he didn't see anyone come in. He didn't see anyone go up and down the basement stairs. Nothing. And then everybody leaves eventually.

2:40:11He goes up to his bedroom on the second floor that faces the backyard. he falls asleep wakes up 7 30 8 a.m and uh he says i can't recall the exact time i know previous testimony i may have said earlier but i don't believe it was that early i would say 7 38 my dad knocked on my door i threw on some clothes i went downstairs to the main floor of the house and he did not wake up from emergency vehicles noises or dogs barking or screaming just his dad knocking on his door to tell him what happened that is when he finds out he says he doesn't know John O 'Keefe personally. He says, I knew he was friendly with my auntie JJ and that's it.

2:40:48Now, Jen and Matt McCabe, their testimonies are going to be in part three and four because, I mean, I think we know everything that's going to be said. I think their testimonies are more important in the actual investigation sense of how they interact with all the troopers because they are doing some suspicious things. They're being weird. And so that's going to be in three and four, but they pretty much say the same thing. Jen is like, I'm texting John. He's not coming in. I see the window multiple times. I see tire tracks in the snow. Nobody comes in. I don't see screeching. I don't see screaming.

2:41:19I don't hear anything. And I thought they left. Same with Matt McCabe. Now, the other two that are in the house, Birthday Brian's two friends, Julie Nagle and Sarah Levinson. Now, Julie says that they order pizza. They're having a good time, but she's been there for like six hours at this point. So at 12.15 a.m., she texts her brother, hey, can you come pick me up? Side note, Julie says she has no idea how long it took from that text message to be sent for him to drive up outside. He texts Julie, hey, I'm outside. Now, instead of announcing to the group that her brother is outside and she will be going home now and retiring for the night.

2:41:54Instead of that, she's like, wait, my brother's outside. I kind of don't want to leave all of a sudden. Jen and Matt McCabe are like, we'll drive you home. So she goes out into the snow. And I guess with no intention of leaving, she walks up to the pickup truck. and she asks her brother and his friends, do you guys want to come inside? We're drinking and having fun. Brother is like, no, I absolutely do not. I want to go home. Do you want to go or not? She's like, no, I'm going to catch a ride with the McCabes instead. So she goes back inside the house. And this whole thing is so confusing because on one hand, she says that the McCabes offered her a ride.

2:42:32On the other hand, she's like, well, when I went out there to talk to my brother, I didn't know that I was going to get a ride from the McCabes. It's just confusing. but a big part of her testimony is julie states that she sees a dark colored suv outside the house potentially karen's car but she states that she doesn't notice that car when she goes outside to talk to her brother she thinks that the car pulled up near the end of her conversation with her brother okay and then once she gets back inside she looks out the window and that's when she notices hey there's a car out there but she doesn't mention anything she just takes a note of it and later when she looks outside the window it's pulled up near the flagpole and she's asked when it was pulling up, Ms.

2:43:08Nagel, it wasn't going like 50 miles per hour, correct? I mean, I didn't have a Raider gun on me, but no. Ryan Nagel then testifies. And this is during the first trial. He says that he was at a restaurant called The Hillside. And he gets a text message from his sister. And he's there with Ricky and Heather. And he decides that they're going to pick up Julie after they're done eating. Ryan is like, I don't know how long I was there. Probably for another 40 minutes because Julie never said she was in a rush. So it's just like, can you pick me up on your way home? They stay for another 40 minutes before finally leaving for the Albert residence, which is about a seven minute drive.

2:43:44And as they're pulling onto the street of Fairview Road, they notice another dark colored SUV. And Ricky, the driver, he lets them pass. So he's there at like an intersection and he's like, OK, you go first. That car is Karen Reed and John O 'Keefe. They park right in front of 34 Fairview. And Ryan, Ricky and Heather park behind them. So they, okay, flagpole is on the right side, driveway is on the left side, mailbox is left side, front door is kind of center. Now, they're saying that they're parked, kind of blocking the driveway, maybe towards the mailbox. This SUV is probably past the front door, but nowhere near the flagpole.

2:44:26Got it. So just kind of smack dab in the middle. Ryan testifies that he never sees anyone get out of the SUV while he's there. Now, side note, there are random inconsistencies between Julie and Ryan Nagel's testimonies. I don't know if they're of importance, but just to put it out there, Julie is firm that when she walked out the front door and walked down the walkway to see her brother, he's saying she came out the side door. She's like, no, I came out the front door. She claims he rolled down the window to talk to her. He's like, no, I opened the passenger seat door because it's a truck. So in order for her to get into the backseat, I have to open the passenger front door.

2:44:58It's like one of those doors that you got to open both. You know, those trucks? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, but the biggest problem in their testimonies is Julie states that the dark colored SUV is not there when she goes out to talk to her brother. Ryan Nagel says that dark colored SUV got there before we got there and we passed it on our way out. Julie says, well, it was like the SUV wasn't there when my brother was there. It was before when I was inside, I noticed it. So she like it's very confusing. Now she's saying like it was there before she went outside. Prosecutor Lally confirms with her.

2:45:34And so at the time that you were talking to your brother in the pickup truck, was the SUV still there? I don't believe so, no. Meanwhile, Ryan Nagel is testifying. He notices the SUV the whole time. The whole time. He noticed the brake lights were on. Nothing was wrong with the taillight. He didn't see anyone get out of the SUV. It was kind of inching forward. It wasn't driving weirdly. It just looked like it was inching forward and forward and that's it. eventually they leave because Julie's not coming and they drive past the SUV and Ricky, Heather, and Ryan Nagel testified that the dome light, like the inside light of the car is on and they only see a woman on the driver's seat with her hands on the 10 and 2 on the steering wheel.

2:46:15No man? No man. What? The defense tries to infer that John O 'Keefe probably already went inside and these three were just not really focusing on the SUV. You know, they mentioned multiple times. It's not like they were, they didn't really care about who was in the SUV. They were on their phones. They're talking to each other. They're talking to Julie. At any point, John O 'Keefe could have gone inside and they didn't see it. Now, the prosecution is arguing, well, the dome light, the inside light automatically turns on when the car door opens. So they're saying, John just opened the car door and Karen's about to like do a three-point turn and hit him.

2:46:55Oh. Because the taillight is fine. There's no man on the lawn. Yes. You know, where's John? So it's all happening at the same time. So the prosecution is saying as they're passing, they're passing the driver's side. So Karen's blocking their view. They can't see that John just got out. The defense is kind of inferring what kind of crazy coincidence is that? It would make more sense that John O 'Keefe is inside the house and Karen is just waiting for him. And she's getting agitated. Because also the prosecution theory is that they were fighting. And then she ran him over. But all three of them testified there was no screaming.

2:47:34There was no yelling they heard. If he's leaving as they're fighting, I would imagine that she's screaming. So based on the fact that they don't see a broken taillight, they don't see anybody on the front lawn, and they don't see John inside the car, It's either he is right outside the car or he is inside the house. Those are really the only two options. But the biggest question that never gets answered is Julie Nagel wanted to go home at 12.15 a.m. She has been there since 6 p.m. for over six hours now. She's ready to go home. Her brother's almost here. All of a sudden, she changes her mind and decides that she's going to stay two more hours with Jen McCabe.

2:48:13And it almost seems like Jen McCabe and Matt McCabe want them to stay. There's almost a little bit of convincing of like, oh my gosh, well, it just passed midnight. It's now Brian's birthday. It wasn't yesterday. It's Brian's birthday now. Why don't you get your brother to come in? Now, this is a crazy risky theory that netizens have. But some netizens theorize that all the senior Alberts needed them here because they're the best alibi. Otherwise, it's just a bunch of family members. And that's not going to look good. So the theory is something happened. In the basement. But Julie had no idea.

2:48:49The theory is that John came around back into the basement entrance for some reason. Maybe someone came out through the back and was like, hey, come in this way. Some netizens, this is again a theory, an allegation. We could all just have vivid imaginations that have really just no connection to truth or reality. We could be completely delusional. But some netizens believe that he came around back to the basement, walked down the steps, entered the basement where Brian, ATF Brian and Brian Albert and perhaps even Colin. Some people put Colin there, some people don't. It really depends who you are and what theory you go with.

2:49:25They're in the basement. A fight breaks out. He passes away relatively quickly because it's a very fatal head wound where he becomes immediately incapacitated. So there's not a lot of noise. There's not a lot of screaming. Maybe there's some barking from Chloe. Maybe, maybe not. they're kind of all drunk. They're on the first floor. And Jen McCabe, Nicole Albert is like, well, why don't you guys stay? They're kind of mediating. I don't know why they would say that nobody was in the basement, though everybody was hanging out in the main floor. Oh, is that what they said? Yes, so that's the part that gets me.

2:50:03However, this girl, Julie Nagel, I don't see her as a very reliable witness. Why is that? Just the way that she's testifying on the stand, it just, even the fact that she said that Karen's car wasn't there when she went outside. I don't know if she's perhaps was too drunk that night to remember or recall details well. She just doesn't give, she gives me like she's very big fans of the McAlberts. She also calls Jennifer McCabe JJ. Julie Nagel does testify that when she does finally leave Fairview Road, It's Matt McCabe driving, Jen McCabe in the front, and then Julie Nagel, Sarah Levinson in the back.

2:50:45And she says that as they're leaving, she looks out the window and she's like furthest away from the Albert house. So she's right behind the driver's side, which means Jen in the passenger side and Sarah Levinson next to Julie are going to be closest to the Albert residence. She looks through the window and she sees what she calls a, quote, black blob on the lawn near the flagpole. and she says did you guys see that that's crazy and the prosecutors are asking her no the defense is also asking her can you see how big the blob was five to six feet she says in the car something along the lines of did you guys see that i think i see something she says i did say out loud i was like i think i might have seen something i'm not kind of sure what it was but i was also intoxicated drinking so i didn't really know what i saw but sarah was like what julie and i was like i don't know what it was and then that was kind of really it matt mccabe denies this conversation ever happened he says if it happened he didn't hear it at all because that calls into question well first of all why don't they do anything about it you don't think it's weird that your friend pulls up and is parking near that area and they never come in they don't text you back they don't pick up your phone calls afterwards and then now someone sees a black blob that's huge or sees something i feel like i would have just stopped but let's say you don't stop that night jen mccabe the next morning she gets a phone call.

2:52:03You didn't think that she would put two and two together? I was like, wait a minute. I did see their car outside. Now Karen's saying that John never came home. And then, oh my God, Julie Nagel last night was like, I saw something on the lawn. But no, she's like, we gotta go search John's house again. It's weird. What time did all of them leave? They said they left around like 1.30, 1.45. Huh. And Julie Nagel, they drive past this black blob. She goes home the next day. She says she puts two and two together when she realizes John O 'Keefe was found in the lawn She's like, oh my gosh. Now. What does she do with this information?

2:52:40Nothing. She never talks about this black blob like ever again So a lot of people think that she's making it up for the sole purpose of placing John there When did she release that information? It's October 2022 and then the trial is when she starts talking about how the blob was six feet tall Like it's a very large black blob Six feet long? Yeah, six feet long The defense even questions it that publicly Everyone by that point was like How can nobody see? How did nobody see leaving the house? And then suddenly Julie is like Wait, you guys, I saw Yeah, and it's weird that none of them Like Jen McKay or Matt McKay or anybody said that Oh yeah, I didn't see but Julie said she saw this So Sarah, she'll testify later that they already had driven past the flagpole by the time she looked.

2:53:29So I guess she's trying to explain like her reaction time was too slow. So Julia's like, I see something over there. And then Sarah's like... And they've already, they're now looking at the neighbor's lawn. Jennifer McCabe is like, I was turned around, literally body twisted towards the backseat so I could have a little conversation with them. And we were joking about PB &J sandwiches. Oh, you remember PB &J. But you don't remember most everything else. That's crazy. Yeah. And if you thought that was weird, if you thought that was weird, you're in for a treat. Because Jen McCabe, later on, Jen McCabe texts Julie Nagel for screenshots of text messages between Julie Nagel and Ryan Nagel.

2:54:12About what time she texted him to come pick her up and what time he texted her that he was here. Why does Jennifer McCabe need those text messages? Correct. And why does she need screenshots? Correct. Okay, that's what they're asking. The defense is asking Julie, when Jennifer McCabe, as you call her JJ, asked you for screenshots of the text messages that you had with your brother, did Jen McCabe tell you that she was investigating this case? No. And you have no memory of providing those screenshots to any investigator other than Jen McCabe, correct? I don't remember, no. Why would she need those?

2:54:45Why would Jen McCabe need those? Now, do we know when did Jen McCabe ask for that information? Yes, that's going to be in part three. Okay. Because there's so much, I have to group Jen McCabe's all of her stuff together because she's got so much weird stuff that she does. And I feel like each one, one by one, it's so small. But then collectively, it's a mountain. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then Sarah Levinson, she has known Birthday Brian for the past 10 years. She's also in that car. She states that she never saw anybody go near the basement. She never saw anybody on the front lawn. She was so focused on getting to the car without slipping that she didn't even look at the lawn.

2:55:21She was looking at her feet. nobody saw anything on the lawn that's it and then by the time that julie says did you guys see that she it was past the neighbor's house now a few interesting things come out of sarah's testimony she says that at one point matt mccabe forgot his coat inside so he has to leave the car go back into the house to get his coat matt mccabe is like that never happened so it's weird i don't know if that's a huge discrepancy oh and side note she is asked another detail and she says at the time they were the last ones to leave. You believed that Brian Higgins and Caitlin Albert had left before you, correct?

2:55:55I believe so. So remember Caitlin Albert? Why did her timeline change? We don't know. But Sarah's like, I'm pretty sure we left after her. But Caitlin said she left the latest. None of this is making sense. It's just like everyone's just saying random story. It makes you, it almost invalidates everyone's story. Yeah. Now it's like, we don't know who to trust. Man, is it frustrating to hear these like story? And you were telling me like even their first and second trial, their story is so many different. Yeah, like Ryan Nagel has some slight changes in his story. I would, I like to think that he's more of an innocent witness of maybe it's time, maybe it's memory, maybe it's just bias that creeps in during that time period.

2:56:42Sarah on the other hand I have some questions about her discrepancies I'm gonna go more deep into this in part 3 Because we're gonna do a whole deep dive on Chloe as well But in trial 1 Sarah's like yeah Of course I met Chloe I've been BFFs with Brian Albert Jr. for the past 10 years Of course I've met Chloe And then the second trial The defense is like you've never met Chloe right And she's like no What? Have you met Chloe? Have you not met Chloe? it's not that hard of a question you would vividly remember if you met one of your best friend's dogs in the decade that you've known them wow so there's a lot i mean i don't know if that's an innocent mistake i was trying to wrap my head around how it could be innocent because i try to give the benefit of the doubt but it was just very weird yeah it was weird now all of them say that colin albert left at 12 10 a.m brian albert jr says well my cousin colin arrived at the house at some point.

2:57:41I don't recall how he knew I was at my house, but at some point he did call me and said, oh, are you still at your house? I said, yes. He said, do you mind if I come? And I said, no, of course you're welcome to come by. So he stops by at around 10 45 to 11 p.m. But when the Albert parents get home, Colin gets up and says that he's getting picked up. He states by the time Jen and Matt McCabe walk in, he's already gone. He doesn't even see them. Julie Nagel is also saying that Colin left around sometime around 11 30 11 45 before midnight which is not matching what they're saying but that could be a drunk discrepancy I don't know however in her testimony she states Colin left and was not there when any of the adults get back.

2:58:23So it's just weird. During the first trial, Colin Albert does testify. And he does state he was 17, turning 18 at the time of John's death. He was a senior in high school. He was four months away from graduation. And he's 20 now that he's testifying. He says that Friday night, he went to a guy named Mike's house. His buddy named Mike. Who was there? I don't remember. What did you do at Mike's house? I don't remember. How did you get to Mike's house? I do not remember. did you get a ride from someone yes do you recall from who you got a ride no how much did you drink at mike's house i do not remember side note this is the prosecution questioning him he's supposed to be in friendly territory right now i mean he very well is and these are his responses but after this mysterious mike's house colin testifies that he goes to 34 fairview road because quote it was my cousin brian's birthday so i went over to celebrate for a little bit with him do you know how old your cousin was turning on that night i don't know here's something he does know though which is he got a ride to 34 fairview from ali mccabe so he's saying ali mccabe jen mccabe's daughter brian albert's cousin from his mom's side no familial blood relation to colin albert but like cousins cousins right yeah ali mccabe drives to mysterious mike's house picks up Colin Albert and then they drive to the Albert residence.

2:59:54This is where it gets weird. So first of all, he's asked about his connection with Ali McCabe and he just says, it's my cousin's cousin. So technically not my cousin, but we're close and we like do family events and stuff like that together. They've known each other since they were born. Colin testifies Ali McCabe gives him a ride. He ends up at the Albert residence at around 10 30 11 p.m. Which is not the most time efficient thing because he claims Colin claims he has a midnight curfew okay so he's got to go home and again he's not driving he doesn't have a car so he's got no plan just vibes and his curfew is coming up in like an hour he's in the kitchen he says he's chugging Bud Light okay chugging is an exaggeration on my part he's drinking Bud Light he's having many alcoholic beverages but he says that he wasn't intoxicated nobody at the party was Colin says he's about there for maybe an hour and decides to go back home at 12 10 a.m.

3:00:49Colin says Allie McCabe was going to drive him home. He waits for her to send him a text that says, I'm here. Now, this is what's weird to me. Allie has no intention of coming inside the Albert residence. That doesn't make sense because it's not like Allie and Colin's relationship. If anything, Allie is also Brian Albert Jr.'s direct cousin. So she's not even going to pop in for two seconds to say happy birthday? Yeah. Weird. So then Colin says he gets that text message right as Brian and Nicole Albert are walking in the house. He's walking out to see Allie McCabe. And we are to assume that Allie McCabe picks Colin Albert up and misses her own mom by like two seconds.

3:01:32So he rushes into the car. That's all he remembers. He doesn't remember which side of the driveway Allie parked the car, whether there was someone else in the car or not, whether there was anybody else in the car after she dropped him off, what side of the car he got into. he doesn't remember anything at all i get it sometimes these memories mean nothing because like let's say two years down the road i say hey what did you do two years ago on this random cousin's birthday you're not going to remember but if the next day something very eventful happens you're going to hindsight and memorize everything so if it's your cousin's birthday and the next day a traumatic incident happens you're going to replay all the events of yesterday and it's going to be singed into your memory forever.

3:02:13Colin says he gets dropped off, walks into the bedroom, tells his parents that he loves them. Good night. That's kind of what he's expected to do at around 1230 now, 1215 ish. And then he goes to his room and he falls asleep. That's it. While he was at 34 Fairview, he didn't witness anything strange, abnormal, nothing. I mean, he really only saw everyone hanging out. That was it. He didn't run into anybody else. Nothing of importance comes out of this. But why did everyone forgot to mention your name then? Exactly. That is how annoying he is during the direct examination. It's time for his cross, where he forgets just about everything minus his name.

3:02:52When he is asked about how he prepared for the trial with anyone, he says nobody. Then he later is like, oh yeah, with the prosecutor. And he's asked, so why did you say with nobody? I mean, it's to be expected that you prep. Why did you say no? He's like, well, I don't even remember what we talked about in that session even though it was one month prior to the testimony he doesn't remember what questions he practiced with Ali he doesn't remember the questions he gave Ali nothing and there is this unhinged moment where defense attorney Jackson is like well you've probably been thinking about this case a lot for the past two and a half years no how long have you been thinking about this case since I guess people started writing about me on the internet So, just likepained, cut.

3:03:33How about since you were at a house where an individual ended up dead on the lawn the next morning, did that prompt you to start thinking about this case? no not so much huh nope you watched any coverage on this case online nope no social media no i don't have social media lie okay literally a lie he's on snapchat no news coverage nope so literally according to you you know zero about the media coverage concerning this case commonwealth versus karen reed correct did he not just say that he only started caring about this case once people online started talking about him, the defense continues to ask him very simple questions such as, did you talk to Ali before her testimony?

3:04:18No. When was the last time you talked to Ali before she testified? I don't remember. Give me an idea. She's one of your best friends a week ago, a day ago, a month ago. I don't remember. Could it have been a year ago? I do not remember. Could it have been five years ago? No. Okay, so it was more recently than five years ago that you spoke to Allie McCabe? I don't remember. So you have no independent recollection as you sit here the last time you talked to one of your best friends and your cousin about any subject? No, I don't remember. Were you ever told in your preparation for your testimony if you start to get stumped or nervous just say I don't remember?

3:04:57Nope. Nobody ever told you that? No, sorry. It's okay. So nobody ever informed you that you might get nervous on the witness stand there might be tough questions easiest way to get out of them is just say yeah i don't recall no so you just don't recall because your memory is that bad your testimony is you were not instructed to say i don't remember you literally just don't remember correct it's an issue with your memory not an instruction that you received right but you do remember two and a half years ago you left 34 fairview at 12 10 a.m correct down to the minute correct got it i need someone to check this one for a brain tumor for early onset dementia because the amount of i don't remember that he utters in his testimony it got so bad that the defense straight up asks him do you remember anything about this case no and there is something he remembers like how he slipped on the driveway and landed straight on his knuckles oh that's right remember that that's right he remembers that very well ali mccabe also testifies the same day and she testifies the night before that she ever drops colin off at 34 fairview and picks him up she's hanging out with friends from school and then she just starts driving around at one point she sees a dog on the side of the road and they knew that a snowstorm was coming so they pick up the dog brought it to the police station and then drove the dog back to the owner's house once they found out who the owner of the dog was now this is a huge point of contention ali describes the small dog as being a small white dog not sure what type this is contentious in the fact that people online have been saying how can you spot a tiny dog in a blizzard but you don't spot a full grown adult on your front lawn now to be fair i will argue that there was no snow accumulating on the ground However, it likely was pretty dark.

3:06:56And if you can spot a smell dog, I feel like you could probably spot a person. It's weird. She states that she gets a text message from Colin to pick her up and drive him to 34 Fairview. Within an hour, she gets another text message from Colin asking her to pick him up from 34 Fairview and drop him off at his house. She's a free Uber driver at this point. but she goes to pick him up she states he gets inside the car and right after dropping him off at his house back to his house this is 12 10 now it's probably like 12 15 she goes straight home the defense attorney is asking do you know about what time it was that you got home not exactly i would estimate a little before 12 30 or around that time she says that her parents were not home by the time that she gets back and how much time was it in between the time when you're not home around 12 30 or so and when you went to sleep not long i don't know ali also doesn't recall what time she woke up but both of her parents were home at that point which colin says that he was dropped off at around 12 10 a.m ali is saying she got home at around 12 30 they live relatively close together but it's snowing she's driving a little slower the the times are supposed to check out but they don't because ali mccabe has a life 360 app and the app on her phone shows that she does not get home immediately in fact she does not get home until 1 32 a.m what's a live 360 it's when parents and you can track your whole family on live 360 that is an entire hour discrepancy yeah which is fine i guess except she's saying that she drove colin home and then immediately went home so what time did colin get home yeah does it not track her location it does and there are some concerns about like it's there's like a circle a border this is like the school zone this is the home zone so it doesn't track what street you're on at what time it's just like at this time you enter this radius that is known as the home zone what's interesting though is colin albert and allison mccabe they say well we actually have proof of the time live 360 don't trust it we have text message proof of colin texting ali can you pick me up ali texting him i'm here and that's around 12 12 10 and she gives these screenshots over to the investigators and they're entered into evidence.

3:09:31I mean, this wasn't entered into evidence for a really long time. And she's asked by the defense, why didn't you turn this in immediately? And she says, well, it wasn't relevant. Colin had not been introduced as being in the house at the time. Okay, wow. Then she says, it's also not relevant because Colin wasn't there when John was there. Does that mean when John was in the car at 1230 a.m.? Or is that when John was in the house? Right. A lot of netizens have pointed out that right after this line of questioning, where she has these two little slip-ups where people thought, ooh, that's not good, she immediately starts, she is asked about how she's been harassed.

3:10:13There's a whole side story of witness tampering and harassment of witnesses, mainly the McAlberts, of people believing that they're guilty and harassing them in person, calling them cop killers. Okay. She does start crying about it and she talks about how people have been calling her school. Half the netizens think that this is a very genuine response of a young girl who probably didn't want to be involved in any of this and it seems like she's roped into it through her mom, Jen McCabe. If there's anything to even be roped into, these are all theories, these are all conspiracies. The other half of netizens think that she is crying not because of the harassment, but because this comes right after the line of questioning where she slips up twice.

3:11:01Now, does she explain why her app showing that she got hung at 1.30? She's like, well, that's not accurate. Okay. Eventually, Colin hands over the thread of text messages between Ali and Colin, and that shows Ali texting him that she's here to pick him up. He's responding. Okay, so the date at the top. It says January 28, 2022. 11 54 p.m the date looks a little weird it's january 28 comma 2022 comma at 11 54 p.m a lot of iphone users are like what's the second comma doing there we don't know what that second comma is that's a weird second comma there's a text from colin to ali that reads you can come get me now if easier she responds okay i'm driving people home now word get me after kk then at 12 10 a.m allie arrives outside the albert residence allegedly and text here colin responds okay which is reasonable evidence that she did indeed pick him up at this time that they're saying except what's submitted into evidence is just a screenshot these are not the original text messages there's no metadata these are screenshots anybody over the age of like six years old could probably forge a text message in this day and age.

3:12:20First of all, it's not that hard to change the date on your phone and text yourself all sorts of nonsense to make it look like something happened at a given date when it really did not happen at that given date. The defense even points to this in their line of questioning because they say, well, that's weird because you have these text messages between you two from January 28th, 2022 and January 29th. And then you guys don't text until February 20th, 2022. so the theory amongst a lot of netizens is that they went deleted all their messages from january 29th to february 20th so today is february 20th 2022 they're like we gotta forge some messages allegedly this is the conspiracy we have to forge some messages but we've been texting for a month we gotta delete all these messages then we have to go enter the time manually change the time on our phone and start texting as if it's january 28th january 29th of 2022 and then once we do that we change the date back to the original date february 20th 2022 and then we can start texting like normal again but if you keep the date if you change the date and you already have text messages from that date it could not work yeah yeah so they don't text for nearly a month after the incident not a single text people believe that they were texting it doesn't make sense they're both arguing that well we kind of switched between platforms so we just moved over to snapchat and the defense is like oh snapchat the place that automatically deletes messages wow colin is like well i i don't know if my settings are like that and they're like do you have your phone are your settings like that he's like i don't remember yo this is others say it doesn't even look like they went through the effort of changing the date it looks like they photoshopped the date it just looks bizarre because in another situation when you are texting someone at 11 58 p.m it's gonna have that date at the very top it's gonna say january 28th at 11 58 p.m and then the minute that 12 o 'clock hits 1201 you send a new message there's gonna be a new date header yeah there's none can somebody like chat fact check that because if that's true is that really what happens immediately the day the next day that's what everyone says on reddit And I was like, I should try this.

3:14:36And I suddenly morphed into a 70-year-old. And I was like, I don't know how to manually set the date. That seems crazy. Maybe I will tonight. Wow. Yeah, that's just so much shadiness. Some people also think that this is not even, it's misrepresenting the truth. Some people think that Ali McCabe picked up Colin Albert from his buddy Mike's house. at 12 10 and then together they went to the albert residence that would make sense because his birthday is past 12 both of them are cousins and previously the text message before january 28th at 11 50 something p.m the one right above it said something along the lines of colin texting ally mccabe mikey is making me do shotguns now ha ha ha ha and that was early in the morning and it seemed like it was just a completely different day but that could have been the original date and they just didn't delete that much so people think that they went over to the albert residence at 12 10 and then went home at 1 30 yes also like if the app live 360 or whatever isn't that a very important app for location for for tracking i would say that the witnesses in this case do not believe in the concept of technology oftentimes it seems like technology is a very erroneous method of data any of them confronted with anything digitally that they've done yeah i don't know it was a butt down i don't know what i i didn't pick it up so at &t must have it wrong that's the energy yeah i wonder what life 360's main mission is as an app and if they fail at the fundamental like the most basic feature of yours how do you explain if you guys have life 360 how accurate are the backtracking of locations i'm so curious about that but also So another interesting thing is there is an invisible car.

3:16:47There's so many threads of mysteries. There's the thread of mystery of what time did Colin get there? What time did he leave? There's also a question that netizens have of, was Alison McCabe there for a long time? Did she go inside and everyone is just omitting her name like they omitted Colin's? But now the story is, okay, well, she picked him up. So she definitely couldn't have been inside the house for a long time. are they all doing this to protect children in the family? That's been a big question. But there is this invisible Jeep theory. Birthday Brian is asked, was there anything in between Ryan Nagel's friend's truck and Karen's dark SUV that you saw outside?

3:17:28He says, not to my knowledge. I didn't see anything. No, only the older people seem to be able to see a Jeep with a giant snowplow attached to the front parked right in front of the mailbox. Ryan Nagel and his friends state that they parked perpendicular to the driveway, right behind the mailbox. And they can see Karen's SUV in front of them. They don't see a Jeep with a giant snowplow attached to it parked right in front of the mailbox. Only the adults see it. Brian Albert, Brian Higgins, Nicole Albert, Jen McCabe, and Matt McCabe. All the young people do not see a Jeep. Whose Jeep would that be?

3:18:08That's so random. Brian Higgins Jeep. Oh. Nobody sees the Jeep. What? Julie Nagel walks outside to talk to her brother in the pickup truck that supposedly, according to these older Albert McAlberts, right behind the Jeep, she doesn't see a Jeep. But she also doesn't see Karen's car, so I don't know. Are they misremembering collectively about a Jeep? Or is it an intentional lie about the Jeep? And if it is, why are they lying about the Jeep? This Jeep also has a giant snowplow in front of it. It's like an attachment and it just makes it longer. And it's a pretty, it looks like a giant shovel and you can lift it up.

3:18:46It's got lights on it. Some people think that John O 'Keefe was actually hit by the snowplow on the Jeep and not Karen's car. I don't know how the physics of that would work. But there are lots of questions of, is Brian Higgins the killer? That's what a lot of people think. However, the only thing that doesn't make sense with that theory, if you just don't even count in like forensic evidence, is the fact that the McAlberts are way too involved. And if it was ATF Bryan, someone that is not part of the family, they would throw him under the bus so quickly. People are commenting, I don't think the McAlberts would be going through all these hoops just for Bryan Higgins.

3:19:27Colin was involved some way. Some people think Alison McCabe was there for a lot longer She was inside the house is what some people are assuming I don't know I think Colin is very suspicious I feel very sympathetic towards Alison McCabe in the sense of If she is not telling the truth It seems like a lot of people believe she's stuck in a position where If you believe in the conspiracy, she's forced to say these things A lot of people say there is no way that the McAlbarts are going through all of this for Brian Higgins which means Colin must have been involved in some way, shape, or form. One netizen says, I think the insistence that it wasn't Colin has been the main factor in convincing everyone that it was Colin.

3:20:10So why would it be Colin? Does it have anything to do with the fact that there are allegations, there are conspiracy theories, that this part of the Albert family, Chris, Julie, and Colin, own D &E pizza shop that might be a drug front. Again, a conspiracy. But it is interesting when you think about the fact that at the waterfall bar, Karen kept asking to go to D &E instead of 34 Fairview. Really? Why? She said she wanted to go after hours to make a pizza because sometimes they do that. They kept saying no. What's also interesting is that Chris Albert, who was at the waterfall, was the one that invited John O 'Keefe out that night.

3:20:54Yeah, which is strange, correct? Yes, and you know what's also strange? John O 'Keefe, before he went on these night outings, he went with his nephew to D &E Pizza that day for lunch. That day? That day. That he died? Yes. Huh. And he told his superiors, and he told members of Canton Police Department that he did notice drug activity in the neighborhood. who was also his neighbor huh and that is the conspiracy that we will be covering in part three along with the accident reconstructionist i try to be very wary of conspiracies i think that they typically do more harm than good i think in this case in this situation a lot of these conspiracies i can't even judge i think had this been any other case a lot of the far-fetched conspiracies, we could probably try to disprove it, probably even try to say, guys, we should maybe go outside and get some fresh air.

3:22:03Yeah, but the law enforcement on this case is like, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I think every single witness is not doing themselves a favor. I think conspiracies are born when people act and behave so suspiciously. I think this is also a really strong representation of how a lot of people feel about law enforcement officers at this point in time. I mean there's just no trust between law enforcement officers and the communities these days and I think this is a direct reflection of that as well on top of these guys are just weird what are your thoughts? whoa my brain is fried what is going on where I leave you with part two we will be back for part three and part four and if you can believe it it gets worse with that being said stay safe and I will see you in the next one Thank you.

From the publisher

Colin Albert is the son of one of the most powerful families in town. And he was supposed to be anywhere but 34 Fairview, the night John O’Keefe died.

For months, not a single witness that spoke with authorities ever stated Colin Albert was at the house that night.

Until, John’s girlfriend, Karen Read, gets charged with his death. She knows she didn’t do it and is ready to prove her innocence. She hires a private investigator who uncovers that Colin was there the night of the party. So why is everyone lying to cover for him?

Why does it seem like everyone is trying to protect him?

Why is it so important to hide the fact that he was at the house that night?

Could it be related to the fact that, just weeks after John O'Keefe’s death, Colin Albert was photographed with scraped and injured knuckles?

Or perhaps it has something to do with his Snapchat videos, which reveal that this popular high school football player may have violent tendencies?

Full show notes at rottenmangopodcast.com

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