We Asked Rosie & Bubba from "The Crash" EVERYTHING The Internet Wants To Know

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23:41Bubba:Now Bubba says the Netflix documentary, I think that from their original idea, the documentary involved too much, I guess the drug talk in a sense, and I could see it respectfully why the families wouldn't want that out there. But I guess that was their initial direction with this case or with this documentary. And then somewhere down the line, edit changes had to be made or whatnot. And it went a completely different direction. So Bubba is saying like he agrees with Rosie that he was under the impression that this Netflix documentary was going to talk extensively about drugs, the drug investigation, the alleged drug investigation and all these things.

24:12Rosie:Oh, so in the doc, it wasn't talked about.

24:14Bubba:Barely. Just like they were going to maybe trip.

24:17Rosie:So everything you just said was not discussed.

24:19Bubba:Yeah. So they share other stories of why they thought it was a drug investigation. And again, you either believe them or you don't. It's entirely up to you. I actually have no stance on this matter as I do think it's still kind of irrelevant to the crash itself. But because the internet has been wanting to know why they didn't talk to the police, I guess this is their reasoning. So they state. Bubba says that the police were coming to his college to essentially ask about drugs. Again, furthering his belief, he states that the police were not interested about the night in question, that they were not interested in the car crash, that they were interested in figuring out some sort of nefarious drug network that he, you know, it doesn't really exist.

24:54Bubba:So he says, quote, after practice, it's the seventh game of the season. They called me up to the coach's office, which is at the top of the Don Drum Stadium. I go up there and they're like, so we've been getting reports. The dean of the college is getting reports that you're involved in a drug trafficking case back at home. And that if you become a suspect and not a victim, we couldn't have that image on the team. Bubba says, I was flabbergasted from that. I was like, drug trafficking. I'm like, what the hell is going on? Because even at this point, anytime the police reached out to me, they would come to my dorm and it was never about drugs.

25:23Bubba:It was always about like, are you being intimidated not to talk to us? Is someone intimidating you not to talk to us about that night? Again, this is one of those things where I could not verify.

25:33Rosie:If the school is telling him drug trafficking case involving you, they must gotten that from someone, from the police, right?

25:40Bubba:Yes, but I can't verify that the school did say that to him. The only thing that I could verify is that the detective did reach out to his football coach.

25:47Rosie:Let's say if that is true, then what does that mean then? That means potentially there could be investigating for something more?

25:56Bubba:I think they, it could have been a dual investigation. I think they could have been running a homicide investigation. And then the DA agent is in the line of questioning for a lot of these interviews because he could also be running his own investigation into maybe like a high school network of transfer of weed and illicit substances. So I could not verify that conversation. But like I said, I do know that there is mention in police reports that the detectives were reaching out to Bubba's football coach and it seemed like they were repeatedly going to Bubba's college. And that is kind of noted.

26:28Bubba:It did seem like they were trying to apply pressure to get him to talk, which isn't necessarily always a bad thing on the police's part, but that's just what I could verify. And as for the two officers talking about how Bubba told them, who's gonna intimidate me i'm big dog right that wasn't one of our questions actually like that was that was not one of my questions that was not one of our researchers questions but it did come up naturally and bubba states i simply told him like i wasn't being intimidated and he's like i'm like no bro i'm like six foot two like i'm not i'm not gonna i'm gonna be intimidated no one's threatening me like to not talk to the police i think i said something along the lines of like i'm big dog at home like it was he says it wasn't meant in any way it was more of just like i'm the second biggest kid in our high school the first one just went to the detroit lions this year in the draft i was the second biggest in the school after him so he was explaining to our researchers like when he said i'm big dog he wasn't trying to be like i'm top dog i'm the shit like no one messes with me he was

27:23Rosie:like it seemed more like he was trying to say like he's like i'm just i'm like a fucking big dude like

27:28Bubba:i don't think and he's trying to express to them he's not being intimidated but again you know Again, this is not information I can verify. He says he eventually chose to talk to the police because he was reassured it was not a drug trafficking case.

27:41Rosie:So at what point did he... Oh, you say it was October? Yeah, around October. I see, I see.

27:45Bubba:So the line of questioning would be about the crash. So that's when he goes in and he sits with the interview, or the police. Now, regardless, Rosie and Bubba state that they both spoke with the authorities. Rosie with the prosecutor, Bubba with the detective. And they state that their whole hesitancy came from the fact, not because they were trying to help Mackenzie, not because they were trying to cover up anything from that night, but because they state they believe that the police were investigating drug trafficking. Yeah, and Rosie states that she even received a phone call from a DEA agent after Mackenzie's arrest stating, I heard you're involved in a drug investigation from 2022.

28:18Bubba:I couldn't verify that, obviously, but... And since we had Rosie and Bubba on the line, we just wanted to ask them all the questions that kept circulating on TikTok. I'm just going to tell you pretty much verbatim what they said. I'm going to try to take out as much of the rambling for clarity's sake. which like our researchers did. They all agreed that there was some rambling on the call, right? But these were their responses. And of course, they are going to advocate for themselves. So we did try to fact check as much as we could through the police reports. But like I said, when it's unverifiable, I'm just going to state that outright.

28:46Bubba:About their friendship dynamic, they state that they have been hanging out with Davion for years since Bubba and Davion played high school football together. As for Mackenzie, Rosie just started hanging out with her and Dom. Quote, just a few months prior to the accident, we were just random, like we just randomly started hanging out every day back to back next day she would call me like what are you gonna do what are you gonna do and what are we gonna do and so that's you know why I feel like I can speak from a point of like a lot of people want to say there's crazy internet speculation and a lot of people say how could you not know their relationship was so toxic but personally we just didn't really see that side of them I mean as I said we only started hanging out with them in the months prior so I she's saying like I'm not like I didn't know them for years.

29:29Bubba:And that was another thing online. A lot of people were saying things along the lines of, well, I mean, we are all bashing Rosie, but at least she's a ride or die best friend to Mackenzie and we would all probably want a ride or die best friend. Rosie states that she actually is just like a recent friend with Mackenzie. She states that while they did hang out every day for a few months because they had gotten to know each other a few months before the crash, she states it's not like they're best friends. She states that she already has her best friends. She has her really close friend group and Mackenzie is new to the friend group.

29:59Bubba:She states that she does not feel the need to cover up for her or anything. Rosie states that it just wouldn't make sense for her to lie and stand by Mackenzie because they're not really best friends like that. Rosie states it seems like the internet is all accusing her of covering up for Mackenzie but she states that she doesn't have a reason to cover up for Mackenzie because they're not even best friends. Now in the FOIA file, I mean there's I tried my best to verify, there is a little over 600 pages of text messages between Mackenzie and Rosie. We did read through all of it just to figure out what kind of friendship it was.

30:31Bubba:It was kind of a bizarre friendship. So for example, July 6th, 2022, Mackenzie texts Rosie, do you like matcha? Rosie responds, my mom's being really annoying and I have to go shopping with her to get food. I asked her for food money and she started arguing with me. Mackenzie responds, oh damn, come next time. And also like you post yourself in a bikini and like show your butt. But like if I did that, my whole TikTok would be getting fucking banned. I'm so jealous. Yeah, I need to get money, bruh. I don't even know what I'm gonna do to get famous. Oh my god, I don't know why they do that to certain people.

31:01Bubba:Dude, we're perfect duo to be famous. This is 25 days before the crash. Rosie tries to sympathize with Mackenzie about her TikTok that keeps getting banned. They banned like three of your accounts, I feel like, and literally, like, we're gonna be on our model shit. Mackenzie sends Rosie a picture and says, this is what got removed. Rosie explains that she tried to send Mackenzie a TikTok, but they banned Mackenzie, so it's too late. Your account is there, but no profile pic, and I can't DM. Mackenzie's freaking out. Like, oh my god, they took my profile pic? Should I go private? I hope they don't ban my whole account.

31:29Bubba:That happened to me the other day, and then it just went back to normal. Mackenzie will then send Rosie, I'm making a media kit. You gotta tell me if it's good. Side note, this is Mackenzie's media kit, by the way, and she writes, My name is Kenzie Shirella. I'm a petite model from Cleveland, Ohio. I love to express my personality through fashion and photography. One of my goals on social media is to help people be themselves and embrace the style they love. I'm extremely body inclusive. I would love for brands to be more inclusive to the smaller sizes as well as the larger sizes. I'm extremely big on healthy living, clean brands, organic food.

32:02Bubba:And then Mackenzie will just like suddenly text Rosie, do you know you can order animal shit anonymously to people's houses? Like when I say animal, I'm talking like elephant shit like that or lion. Seven hours later, Mackenzie is asking Rosie, how much do you make from TikTok? Rosie's like, it depends if I have a good month, like good videos that month. The most was like 150. Sometimes it's like 40. Mackenzie's like, dude, I'm jealous. I need to get in on that fund. I have $88 from going live. I want more. Oh my God. I've never made anything going live only from the creator fund. And so there's like, just like rants about TikTok, mainly Mackenzie complaining.

32:38Bubba:She complains that someone reported her account for being under 14. She has Rosie fill out something that's going to help confirm that she's not under 14. Rosie writes, Okay, I filled it out and said hella about how you're an influencer, literally graduated high school, and you're being mass reported for being 13 when you're not even, and none of your content violates anything, and it's your job! Exclamation, exclamation, exclamation. Mackenzie writes, I love you so much, and bruh, tomorrow's going to be so fun. Yes, they better give you your fucking account. I'll fuck someone up. They better.

33:07Bubba:I'm manifesting. Mackenzie complains. Literally, I don't even know how I'm going to get my followers back. Honestly, just push out hella good content because they love you and new accounts tend to blow up. I'm so sad about this account. Fuck TikTok. Mackenzie is very nice to the people that she, to the people that have the things she wants. So for Rosie, it seems like it's the followers. Rosie had at that point like 200 ,000 followers on TikTok and YouTube. Mackenzie never really got more than a few thousand. So her attitude towards Rosie seems vastly different from how she treats other people that she doesn't really want anything from.

33:40Bubba:I mean, like you saw the way that she was texting people and DMing people and just being a brat. She doesn't seem to show that side to Rosie. So I was kind of surprised by that in the 600 pages. I was just trying to figure out the depth of their friendship. And it seems like they just like share weird ideas back and forth. Mackenzie will text Rosie. You should make a TikTok vlog of you tripping. OK, this one I thought was a little weird.

34:01Rosie:What? Why?

34:02Bubba:Because exactly. Mackenzie has been complaining about how TikTok has been banning her account nonstop. And then all of a sudden she's like, you should make a TikTok vlog of you tripping, which is i'm like are you trying to sabotage like it was weird not that i'm like defending anyone but like it's just like a weird kind of suggestion yeah which feels sabotagey to me but i don't know and then she hits it with an lol to which rosie responds lmf lmfao i want you so bad but my mom has tiktok and i blocked her but her weird ass would make another account smh i wish i could post shit like that too my mom follows me too and just some like random texts from mckenzie that read yeah this fucking Thursday bitch we're about to look bad as fuck and another one from Mackenzie I feel like you're gonna be scared at my driving we're the exact opposite so this Mackenzie is picking up Rosie and Rosie is expressing how it's nice to be driven once because she's usually the one picking people up and Mackenzie tells her but like I love to drive too but I'm crazy though and Mackenzie is just kind of yapping another text says I think I'm gonna make a YouTube but I don't know what to record on or what to what videos to make later they joke about tripping on shrooms at the carnival which mackenzie thinks is quote bro euphoria moment rosie says no literally mackenzie says i'm excited to summarize nearly all 600 pages felt like variations of yes you're so hot no i love you no you're the cutest fuck why is your mom being annoying your tiktok got banned i'm so pissed for you it felt like i will say not like a particularly deep friendship there was no personal conversation there was no like much relatability much of their friendship is based off of taking photos of each other mackenzie texts rosie that's what i'm saying the pictures are going to be fire i don't care if people are staring if they're not talking about pictures they're talking about social media rosie will text mackenzie bro when you were banned yesterday your baby cushy account was on my fip like three times every time i opened tiktok mackenzie responds no way same with you to be honest your videos are all over my fip and then rosie would respond oh my god work we're famous mackenzie says i need to hit 100k yes you will you should try scripting with that like when i was popping on youtube i was manifesting by writing every day i have however many followers or subscribers or this video got this many views and it works like a charm but keep manifesting i'm manifesting my account back right now rosie's like yes i haven't scripted in so long i feel like it works the best mackenzie's like i would usually write on paper then burn And then Mackenzie informs Rosie that she's going to take on the nearly impossible task of cooking for herself.

36:28Bubba:She texts, I'm going to try to make myself an egg. It's embarrassing, but I don't know how to do it. LOL. This is like kind of one of the more in-depth conversations they have. Rosie responds, ew, not an egg. To eat? I hate eggs. Yes, LOL. I like the gooey. Haha, I'm done with eggs, bro. I used to love them. True. Is that like vegan to you? Rosie says, I'm such a hater. Yes, like I'm almost vegan if I didn't eat cheese. I only eat eggs if they're grass-fed free range. No hormones. Mackenzie says though, I'm not gonna make them I don't want to smell. I don't want you to smell when you come because I would hate that and Rosie's like ha ha ha No, you're okay Mackenzie says I'm weird as fuck with smells.

37:07Bubba:I'm good with smells. Dude, you can try sea moss. Oh my god. Yes Do you want Chipotle? I'll make Dom go get you some too. I'm okay bet

37:16Rosie:So they never fought in the text like you know how Mackenzie will crash out and

37:21Bubba:No, and I think it's literally because, well, here's me speculating, but I do think that Mackenzie is very kind to people who she thinks will help her get what she wants.

37:31Rosie:Yeah, because she cares about herself the most. Yeah. That's so interesting. So she's very polite and just supportive.

37:38Bubba:Yeah. Other than the only part where I was like, weird, was when Mackenzie was like, you should make a vlog of yourself tripping. It felt a little sabotage-y. After all of her rants about getting banned on TikTok for doing nothing. And then she's like, hey, violate community guidelines right now. It was just kind of weird.

37:57Rosie:And you think that's why Rosie responds, you know, describes Mackenzie in that way? Is because of that's kind of the friendship she has with?

38:07Bubba:Yes, I think it would be understandable to see where Rosie is coming from and how she describes her relationship with Mackenzie and how she specifically felt about Mackenzie. I think the part that people might have problems with for sure is the fact that you didn't know her that long and you had more of a surface level friendship. And yet it does seem like she has a lot of hope and faith in Mackenzie's that this was an accident. Like they don't 100 % think it's an accident, at least from what they told our researchers in the sense of like they're dead set. Like this was an accident. They're not like Mackenzie and Mackenzie's parents.

38:43Bubba:they are more so they stayed on the side of yeah i think it's completely understandable for rosie to speak on her friendship with mckenzie and it does seem like mckenzie was a very nice friend to rosie to some degree at least in the 600 page text message thread but i think where people have a problem is when she uses this shorter friendship to kind of like a character judgment yes yes

39:06Rosie:exactly so i think you don't know mckenzie well enough to and just because she was nice to you

39:11Bubba:for five six months doesn't mean that you can really wholeheartedly ten toes down talk about her character i think is what people are feeling and saying i think that's why you know there's like kind of the weird argument of people are saying like would it be better if they were best friends forever you know because then it's like you can kind of understand it's like maybe you grew up together and you're like so this is your only friend i don't know but i wonder if it's like

39:38Rosie:long long-term friend like then you can really see the pattern of someone you're like yeah i can i can see her doing that yeah she's crazy like but then if you just know someone for like a short

39:48Bubba:period and they're so nice to you maybe but yeah that's the argument that people have online which is like you can have those feelings but you can't really be a character witness also side note rosie at one point is like complaining about tiktok banning her randomly and then like unbanning her or whatever. And then she says, I don't understand their stupid ass app. Okay. This is Rosie. Mackenzie responds. Oh, that's so weird. It's probably because it's run by Asians.

40:14Rosie:Mackenzie.

40:15Bubba:Yeah. They rant about their boyfriends together. Rosie will text Mackenzie about Bubba, her boyfriend. We're fighting. This motherfucker is so annoying. Like, why am I even with him? Mackenzie's like, what do you do? Oh, we're still coming, but he's always fucking arguing. Like, shut the fuck up. Stop bringing stuff up that you know is about to start an argument. To which Mackenzie responds, remember, you're the top dog, bitch. Tell him to shut the fuck up if he says anything when you're here. Yeah, period. So it doesn't seem like they talk in depth about their relationships. Like these are very, um, like, no, you're the baddest bitch.

40:46Bubba:You don't need him. Like it's very, okay, thanks.

40:49Rosie:They don't go in depth.

40:50Bubba:Yeah, yeah. Now they also contemplate why their boyfriends are so bad at taking pictures. Mackenzie wonders, why are they like this? Rosie says, I'm better off with a tripod. Mackenzie also just rants about everyone, generally speaking. you know she even sends Rosie this audio message where she says quote I'm just gonna send you this voice memo because it's easier the second party we went to on the fourth the fucking it was like Strongsville popular people like I don't even know it was open invite like this big ass mansion that's why I was like you guys need to come because like somebody was asking about Bubba and then I was like I invited Rosie and them but I don't know what they're gonna do fucking Haley you know de Pompey de Megan I don't know like she's saying something okay I can't really decipher and all of them were there Haley came up to me and was like she's like please don't hate me literally being like don't hate me don't hate me don't hate me don't hate me and I was like Haley you made a TikTok about me like I seen it and then she was like playing dumb and I'm like Haley I actually like have the TikTok I have the TikTok I literally showed her and she's like I'm gonna be real I made it I'm like Haley I know you made it that's fucking weird like only insecure people make fun of people and I was like we can set that beside us whatever you know whatever you're drunk it's like cool and she's like we need to hang out trying to like be all cool with me so even when she rants about people it's not as like intense as how she does with other friends so far from what I've seen like she's not saying like that stupid bitch needs to go back to subway.

42:19Bubba:Like she's not really, you know, but it's just like weird. Mackenzie rants about how quote, this person is making me so mad right now, driving 27 in a 35. That's about it. Like there's not really much substance to their friendship and you do with that information what you will. Rosie tells Netflix, I genuinely do not think that this could have been on purpose, intentional or planned. Like it doesn't make sense to me. We were all friends. Rosie tells Netflix, I was with them every single day. And I wasn't, you know, there wasn't daily arguments. It wasn't like anything crazy like that. Rosie states to our researchers, it's so weird because now I'm just seeing people online making fun of me for saying, oh, we had the best friend group, but it really was like a really chill vibe.

42:57Bubba:And up until even that night, we were doing the stuff that we would normally do, watching TV, watching movies, going outside, just talking, listening to music. It's like a lost art form and nobody even does that anymore. And it was like, we would do these wholesome things and it just feels like a lot of the toxic relationship drama is kind of sweeping that up like we somehow were involved in any of that or saw it and genuinely never saw anything like that and if we ever did hear anybody threaten anybody or if they were arguing that night or if they were arguing about anything we would be the first people to say that i would not sit here and defend something or just lie about you know what now is a double homicide or about my friends losing their lives in general oh so she's saying that she actually doesn't know they have a toxic relationship or okay her thing is more so people are trying to break down why she's telling people that she did not witness a toxic relationship but rosie is saying but i'm only speaking on what i witnessed when i was around them but then she also acknowledges two things can be true though she's saying like obviously i didn't see those text messages like

43:59Rosie:she's saying like obviously i don't have their phones yeah so all the infer like all the videos we've seen of Rosie talking about is she didn't know. Yes. Basically what?

44:09Bubba:But I don't know how she stands. I don't know if she's standing. I don't know how much of the text messages she's seen now. I don't know if she thinks that they had a toxic relationship or if this is a normal toxic relationship for high schoolers in her mind. I don't know. Rosie states that the only nice responses that she really receives now after the Netflix documentary is like, okay, well, I guess you're a good friend though for keeping her secrets and defending her because you love her so much. and Rosie states that she is not doing that. She says literally the whole online response is every single person just thinks I'm lying or covering up something for her and I would never ever cover up a murder.

44:42Bubba:That is insane.

44:42Rosie:So what made people think she's covering for Mackenzie again? Is it -

44:47Bubba:The hesitancy to talk to the police and it does seem that Rosie does not think that Mackenzie did this intentionally. And I think that makes people question Rosie because a lot of people have seen the FOIA file A lot of people have heard from Dom's family members. They just don't see why Rosie could say that having such a shorter friendship with Mackenzie. And then I guess people are also confused because they're like, okay, well, Rosie and Bubba were closer to Davion. I will say that there are like two points in the text messages where Mackenzie complains about her relationship with Dom. But from judging by Rosie's responses, again, none of them are kind of taken seriously.

45:29Bubba:uh rosie does say that they had conversations in person but i don't know it's just like very there's not a lot of depth so i can see maybe why she's saying that she didn't see it at that time i don't know

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48:30Rosie:And it does sound like Mackenzie take everything twisted to her side. Yes. Tells it like this is what happened versus what really happened.

48:39Bubba:Of course. And Mackenzie is also kind of fickle. So like there will be one time where she's texting Rosie about how she got into a huge fight with Dom and she's like ranting about Dom. But it's like very vague. it's like oh he's so dumb like he's so blah blah blah blah and then Rosie's like oh no and then Mackenzie will text you want to come to Dom's if you want we can take dabs which like why would anyone want to go there if they're fighting so Rosie is like I love mayo it's okay you don't want to come should I yeah you can come okay he lied to me so I'm gonna smoke all his dabs so then Rosie is like haha period so it's like very like it doesn't yeah but again the main reason we wanted to talk to Rosie and Bubba is to ask them what happened that night.

49:16Bubba:I mean, there's no way that you can definitively know the truth, but there were two people that were there. And this is what they've had to say about that night in question. They state that Mackenzie and Dom were not fighting that night at Paul's. And they state it's frustrating that the documentary painted it as if Rosie and Bubba were the only two others at the party or the gathering. But they're saying there's two other people, Paul and Nina. So I guess they're expressing to our researchers, like, what would all four of us gain out of like lying about them not fighting that night? They're like, it doesn't like make sense why people are like, no, they definitely fought that night.

49:46Bubba:Like they're they're confused why nobody believes them when they say there was no fighting that night. Bubba says he was awake with the guys most of the night, like they were all on the couch. So it was Bubba, Davion, Dom and Mackenzie. And they were just like watching TV. Mackenzie was falling asleep. He says that, oh, there was one thing that he mentioned, which is like right when Mackenzie, Davion and Dom arrived to Paul's house, within a little bit, Mackenzie and Dom leave briefly. so they go back to Dom's house and Bubba says they were gone for like 15-30 minutes because quote they all ate healthy like they ate non-GMO so they would always have like special snacks and they ended up having to go back home like 10 minutes after they got there to grab their snacks to grab popcorn and to grab I think it was like blueberries or some shit that's what he says but then they ended up going back to grab those separately so they leave Davion and they went in the car and when they came back it was still perfectly fine so he was like yeah they were gone for 15 minutes but he doesn't think that they were fighting in that time because it didn't seem like they came back tense.

50:43Bubba:Like it seemed like they were in a happy mood when they got back. But I guess his thing was, if Mackenzie had planned to kill Dom, why wouldn't she have done it on that drive? I guess is maybe the insinuation because he's like, you know, that's a whole thing that's completely left out about that night. But again, like I said, a lot of netizens don't think it was like pre-planned days in advance. It was more so like maybe an argument broke out in the car on the way home. Maybe an argument did not break out when they went to go grab snacks. so the next morning they wake up or well mckenzie wakes up a lot of the others hadn't gone to sleep bubba and davion have plans bubba says davion was going to help him quote paint the bottom of my truck and paint it black and get all the rust off and everything and we were going to do that and he was like oh i could just come back to your house so we could wake up and do it and i was like i mean that's fine with me and then at the last moment so he's supposed to go home with bubba sleep at bubba's and then do it but then at the last minute he's like you know what i'm just gonna to go home aka doms shower sleep like we'll hit each other up maybe around noon mackenzie dom and davion get into the car the two don't make it a huge conversation online since the release of the documentary and it's not necessarily what was said in the documentary but people looking into the case there have been conversations like i said from those police reports of other interviews of friends just like hearsay that rosie stated to someone that she drove by the crash site that morning before the police were called and whether she didn't see it or didn't call the police like That's been a huge conspiracy online.

52:08Bubba:Our researchers asked Rosie. And Bubba says, look, the police have video of Mackenzie's car turning onto Progress. That turn. And if anybody else went that route, anybody, they knew anyone in the car, they would see it in camera. Bubba says it's obvious from a logical standpoint that this is not true. And somehow the media is running with it. So we kept pressing them on it because we're just like, well, we just want to know where this is coming from. and they state that there's a friend, a supposed friend who had gone to the police and said that Rosie was super emotional and had made a comment about how she drove past them that morning on her way home from Paul's.

52:42Bubba:So she also left Paul's, drove by the crash site and like that's also making her even more emotional now that, you know, she knows they're dead. So they're explaining like, okay, basically, and this is verified through the police interview, there's someone who went to the police and was like, you know, Rosie was mentioning how she was so emotional because she also left Paul's that morning and drove by the crash site on her way home. So like it's kind of up in the air what that means. But a lot of people on the internet took it with she drove by the crash site. Like she saw the car or could have seen the car.

53:17Bubba:Maybe she didn't look out the window, but drove by that exact road where the car was crashed into the building. That's how everyone's taking it. And of course, a lot of people are spinning it in the more nefarious way and saying like she drove by, saw Mackenzie's car and was like, holy shit, Mackenzie actually went through with it. So she doesn't call the cops and she just keeps driving home. And then because maybe she feels guilt, maybe she feels all these emotions, she mentions it at like one of the vigils and it becomes the whole thing. It gets reported to the police. So we're like, we just need to know, where were you?

53:46Bubba:Like, where was the, they pretty much like got a Google Maps explanation, gave it to the researchers. They're like, we live here. This is where Bubba lives. This is where Rosie lives. Like they were giving the full breakdown of the entire town. Now, if we deduce the main point, Rosie had gotten up. So Rosie had slept. So she gets up and she's like gathering her stuff. She had gotten up to use the restroom. She's gathering her coloring books and eventually her and Bubba are like, let's go. Like we want to sleep in the bed. Like let's go to Bubba's house. And they said that they were going to go to Bubba's and they were going to both sleep and wake up later around noon.

54:21Bubba:Because remember Davion was like, oh yeah, I'm going to come help you with your car around noon. yeah so they both drove separately to Paul's Bubba gets in his car and Rosie gets in her car her whole thinking was Bubba's parents are pretty strict so they don't let her sleep over but it's daytime so like technically she can take naps so like this is kind of like a nap so then she drives to Bubba's house and she states that when she gets there Bubba's mom has COVID so she's like you know what maybe not smart for me so forget it I'm just gonna drive home so she gets to Bubba's and then decides she's going to drive home and the only way for her to drive home is using really the main road which is pearl not progress pearl pearl is the main road like this is where all the restaurants are this is where the starbucks is apparently there's so much traffic on pearl but pearl she passes the entrance of progress where mckenzie had turned right she passes the entrance she does not go on to progress ever got it that's what she says now she passes the entrance and she also like is saying if i had and i wasn't like talking to the police i guess the argument is like the

55:25Rosie:police would have known and they would have yeah yeah that would be a crazy yeah yeah and there's

55:30Bubba:like no mention of it anywhere right she thinks that this rumor could have started because everyone was gathered at the crash site like 50 or 100 people after um the car was taken and and there was flowers it was like a vigil that was set up and a lot of the high schoolers would just kind of hang out there because it was a way to grieve together and not alone and she says maybe somebody there heard that I drove down Pearl and maybe it got mistranslated and everybody there is just obviously like trying I mean there was just a bunch of rumors going around to everybody trying to speculate on what had happened so she states that she never specifically spoke to the person that told the police this but she thinks maybe that's how this whole story got started because I can see that.

56:14Bubba:I could see Rosie being emotional and like mentioning like, I was just driving down Pearl on the way home.

56:19Rosie:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

56:20Bubba:And I passed the entrance and then it just kind of, yeah.

56:22Rosie:That's crazy. Yeah, yeah.

56:24Bubba:And this is less pertinent information, but I thought it was interesting, okay? But Rosie told us that on the drive home from Bubba's, she's driving down the main road, passing the entrance of Progress, not on Progress, but passing the entrance. And she said that she was getting really emotional. So the whole theme of the night at Paul's, and technically all of this was it was a graduation party and they've been going to all these grad parties. She says, we're going to college soon. We were all locked in to go to different colleges. Me and Nina were going to a college that was like two and a half hours away.

56:54Bubba:Bubba was going to a college that was two hours away. So it was just kind of a lot of stress. And then Kenzie and Dom weren't going to college and neither was Davion. And our friend Paul was going somewhere else. So it was just like everybody was getting separated. so the whole theme of that night for us was just like everybody was getting separated and you know we're going to college kind of scared we're gonna leave home and we're gonna have to make new friends so on my drive home i'm literally reflecting on the fact that this city that i'm driving through because as i said you know this is the main road i have so many memories in this city i'm passing by the carnival that we went to i'm passing by all this stuff and i'm literally like crying in the car rosie's crying yeah that's what she says right i mean this is obviously like an anecdotal story that is not relevant to the case but she's just like was giving us a lot of context and she says like there was this beautiful sunrise and it felt like a warm summer morning which I that's the only thing I could fact check which the sunrise and the time that she's driving home does check out and she says you know I have all my windows down and I'm not even playing any music and I'm just like wow this city isn't so bad and I have a nice friend group now but then also kind of sad because now we're all going to separate colleges and I have to try and find new friends in college and she says you know I feel like when I was growing up we're like I hate this city everybody sucks here like this place sucks and then I finally had a moment where I was like maybe it's not that bad like maybe I'm gonna miss it here and then I got home I went to sleep and I got woken up by a phone call from Bubba and he was just like bawling his eyes out and I couldn't even understand what he was saying she mentions how she told this all to the Netflix documentary producers and they actually wanted to film a whole scene so they were like planning on doing a whole like a recreation of the sunrise moment where she's driving right but she says i don't know how it all just ended up getting cut out side note it seems that bubba found out about the crash because davion was had been staying with bubba's for a little bit and the head football coach had called bubba's mom bubba was waiting for davion so he was actually outside in the driveway prepping his truck for Davion to come and to help with the truck.

59:00Bubba:So he said that he was trying to make sure the lines were straight, doing all the prep work under the truck, and then, quote, that's when my mom came out and told me. And yeah, that's, it was just a mess after that. Ultimately, Bubba states multiple times throughout this call, Mackenzie was not my friend. And I know this might sound harsh or it might come off as a bad way, but if she would have lost her life in that accident or some like really excruciating evidence came out and she got booked for like 30 years to life and it was a harsher sentence than what she has now, it would not affect me in any way.

59:30Bubba:I would not care. Mackenzie was not my friend. She was more of Rosie's friend. They always did their thing, like when we always hung out. I mean, I've had a handful of conversations with her. I was never her friend. Davion was the closest thing to a brother for me since him living with me. I own one of his football jerseys. He got buried in the other one. He was truly the closest thing to a blood brother to me. So my whole stance on this is I just want to know the truth. The reality of it, at least for me, I don't care how long she sits in jail. I don't care about any of that. What I care about is knowing the true story of knowing how they lost their lives.

1:00:03Bubba:Rosie has, oh, okay. Side note about there was a lot of, um, people thought that Rosie was doing the Netflix documentary for social media attention and they do bring up her social media handles. And there's like parts where Rosie is like, oh yeah, when I met Mackenzie, I had 200 ,000 followers on YouTube, right? Rosie says she wanted the producers to not include any of her social media. She says that it was irrelevant to the case because it's not like they were doing videos together and she's mainly on YouTube doing her fitness stuff and that has nothing to do with Mackenzie so she said that she didn't want any of it on there but then the producers during the eight hours were asking her what she does for work and then they would ask her like oh how many followers did you have when you first met Mackenzie and she says but you have to understand like I sat down and they asked me all these things and I just answered I wasn't being careful with the questions I was answering I was literally answering every question there wasn't one question that I didn't answer basically so she's stating that she did not do the Netflix doc for fame she said that she specifically requested it not be included and then they were like asking her so she was just answering Bubba states that he has text messages with the documentary crew stating that Rosie's social media is not relevant so he's also confirming like okay we're not going to use her social media right because they're dating still and so he's like just checking in like Rosie wants to make sure so it seems like he's saying that he has some sort of text messages with the documentary crew talking about how Rosie's social media isn't relevant.

1:01:24Bubba:I did not see that text message, but that's what he told us. Now, I do want to note that there are members of Dom and Davion's family that do not seem to appreciate what Rosie and Bubba have been saying. What they said in the Netflix documentary and maybe things that have been said and done behind closed doors. I could imagine that they probably didn't appreciate maybe Bubba talking about the pendulum in the police interview. Like, I could see how that could be highly offensive to Davion's family as well. Rosie and Bubba state that they just want to know the truth of what happened. They expressed wishes that the trial could have been what they believed to be fair.

1:01:56Bubba:They didn't necessarily think the trial was fair. They thought that McKenzie's attorney was not that competent. They didn't like the fact that the defense did not call in an expert. So there was no expert called in to testify that McKenzie's pots could have played or couldn't have played a roll. So they, I mean, the trial only lasted four days. So they just felt like they don't definitively feel like they know what happened in the car that night is how they state they feel. And while they do think that they would like a new trial, they also express like they know it would just open so many wounds for the victim's families.

1:02:30Bubba:So like they, it seems like they get it. Rosie also says she feels like the family's, um, quote, took us originally canceling those interviews as really suspect and she says recently i didn't even know this happened but they put it in the evidence file that davion's mom emailed the police and was like rosie made this tiktok about somebody betraying her and i'm assuming it's about bubba because he's cooperating with the police remember and she says i had no idea they were just taking my random tiktoks and i was following these tiktok trends i had no idea that they connected the random videos and matched it up with me intimidating people to not speak with the police i think she felt that way because she thought that I wasn't cooperating.

1:03:07Bubba:Rosie says we definitely thinking back now we should have just sat down and talked to the police the second everybody else did because everybody says that's somehow suspect and we literally only canceled it because we really did not want to be involved in some big drug bust especially when we have no credible knowledge. Obviously Rosie being there for Halloween of 2022 and dressing up with Mackenzie as Playboy Carty doesn't necessarily make Dom and Davion's family want to be receptive either you know more receptive to what they have to say either to which Rosie says so in the documentary Rosie you know there's this point where they show the Halloween picture and she's just like it's playboy cardi anyone my age knows it's playboy cardi so it's not really touched upon that that was fucked up so Rosie's just like it's not a corpse it's playboy cardi right and so Rosie was saying yeah I mean I think they immediately the family labeled me as like oh you're her crazy best friend and don't hold anybody accountable and you guys are going around dressing as corpses or whatever you know a few months after and the matter of fact about that is and they edited it down in the documentary to just like oh we just dressed as playboy cardi but it was really like no like we no we really shouldn't have done that we shouldn't have done that i was irresponsible i don't know we were in college and there's so many things that i would have done differently in hindsight not knowing how this was all going to play out but there is a part where she kind of tries to explain um their thought process where she was like at this point mackenzie was trying to do a lot of things for dom and davion so she was explaining like how they had all planned to go visit Rosie at her college for Halloween because Ohio University is known for having the craziest Halloween and that Dom loves Playboy Carty and there was like this explanation about it which I feel like I did try my best to keep a neutral presentation thus far and this is where I would have to voice my very strong disagreement.

1:04:49Bubba:I think it's good that Rosie realized that they definitely shouldn't have done that because it is like she said irresponsible and they've all said that they believe that Halloween was a way to celebrate Dom and Davion's lives and that even Mackenzie going to the Kid Cudi concert was a way to celebrate Dom. Maybe that's truly how they felt in their hearts as it's happening. But I think the core issue with the Halloween and Kid Cudi and all of that is it's just insensitive. It doesn't it doesn't matter who you say you're doing it for. She could have been bawling her eyes out the entire time at all of these events.

1:05:20Bubba:I don't think it's the morally correct thing to do. I don't think many of us could ever be in Mackenzie's shoes and do something like that. They stayed off their personal observations they do not believe this was an incident where Mackenzie pre-planned an intentional murder plot. But they also state that even if it was some sort of freak accident or reckless driving they both believe that prison time is still warranted. Rosie says at the end of the day the prison time is unarguable and people do get arrested for killing people in their car in car accidents all the time. I mean it's not like anybody should just get away scot-free with nothing.

1:05:50Bubba:She states that she thinks everyone just took it the complete opposite way and went crazy with the theories but she says she thinks that there should be prison time but that they should maybe factor in that she was only 17 and lost her boyfriend and friend. Bubba states that the only thing that would make prison time questionable would be if they could absolutely prove that there was some medical incident. Which side note I will say there were talks with our researchers and I did see a lot of people bring this up including Steve Shirrilla brings this up later in a recent interview that Dom's family were powerful in the area.

1:06:22Bubba:Dom's mom is a criminal defense attorney, Christine Russo, and she did work for the prosecutor's office. And so she might know a lot of people, the judge that was presiding over the case. Her last name is Russo. I don't think that there's any sort of, you know, neither do Rosie and Bubba. They don't think that there's any sort of familial relation because that would be crazy. Yeah, that would be crazy, right? But I think that there are conversations of like Like how much sway did Christine Russo have in all of this? I don't know. They, a lot of people, including Rosie and Bubba, point out how Christine Russo was talking to the police in an interview and she said something along the lines of like, I know Mackenzie's defense attorney.

1:07:00Bubba:Like he, I don't need to worry about him. Like he's not a concern. I know his brother. Like, and she's just saying like, he's not a problem. He's not a problem. And some people have kind of interpreted this as like, he's not a problem because I know him. Like I know him. I'm going to make sure he's not a problem. I actually did not interpret it like that. I actually interpret it as she's clearly an analytical woman. She's a criminal defense attorney. I could see her trying to understand a lot of the, and there are defense attorneys who are problematic, who are problems because they will go there and they will say some crazy shit and they'll try to pull out all the craziest, they'll do motion after motion after motion, like just drowning the whole case and just unnecessary paperwork.

1:07:40Bubba:Like I think it was meant so more like that.

1:07:43Rosie:Yeah, yeah.

1:07:43Bubba:I don't think it was like, I don't think she would ever say that to the police when it's about her son's life and death. I will note that Bubba has voiced out again multiple times he could care less what happens to Mackenzie. Rosie has stated that she does not think that Mackenzie is this evil monster and did not care about either of these boys or that she premeditated the whole thing or did it on purpose. And this is what I've gathered from reading through every single page of the 30 ,000 page document of text messages between Mackenzie and Dom. and I only say this because there's really no better way for me to try to explain the feeling that I had reading those messages.

1:08:16Bubba:Not that my feelings are important in this matter, but those messages felt more akin to a domestic violence situation where the relationship is so incredibly toxic and just the sheer oppressive nature of Mackenzie's text messages to specifically Dom and only Dom and how she speaks to him to me felt abusive. To me, if I was in that relationship or my friend was in that relationship with someone like Mackenzie, I would be scared for them. But Mackenzie could be very well sweet to Rosie and Bubba and portrayed herself differently because that's also very typical in domestic violence situations. Not saying this is one, but with domestic violence, I mean, again, it doesn't always mean that she's hitting him or physically abusing him.

1:08:56Bubba:But in these types of dynamics, from the text messages I saw, if I had to summarize the level of how it makes the reader feel suffocated, it feels reminiscent of an emotionally abusive relationship. And while the trial is another part that we're going to cover, I think the public opinion on this case, a lot of people from what I've seen, they don't necessarily believe that Mackenzie went out and plotted this whole thing days in advance. In fact, a lot of people think that Mackenzie is likely too narcissistic to want to harm herself just to harm Dom. But rather, there could have been a fight that broke out in the car.

1:09:30Bubba:And in the escalation of rage or whatever emotion that could have come out in that moment, the crash was deliberate. That is how a lot of people feel. That is what they're saying. And I bring up DV not because I'm saying Mackenzie is a domestic violence abuser, but because in relationships, people will behave in ways and do things that they will never do with their friends. It is very, very rare that you have someone on trial for abusing, punching their partner and the abuser's friends come out and say, oh, they did that to me too, which we will be doing a full episode breaking down the entirety of the 30 ,000 pages of text messages so that you know what I'm talking about and you can come to your own conclusion.

1:10:06Bubba:But I think that there could be a world where Rosie and Bubba did not see that side of Mackenzie at all and actually only saw a side to her that would make it hard for them to believe that she could be someone that could intentionally harm Dom. Just like how Rosie thinks that Natalie Shirrilla is a really sweet woman. And I actually believe Rosie in that Natalie Shirrilla is probably very, very kind to Rosie. but Natalie Shirrilla by all accounts of the massive FOIA the investigation the way she conducts herself after Mackenzie's arrest amongst a whole laundry list of other things I think Natalie Shirrilla is a completely incompetent parent who has to have I think in my opinion has to some degree played a role in the upbringing of Mackenzie that has ultimately led to this and on a real level has probably played a role in the crash itself whether it be loosely, indirectly, or directly.

1:10:55Bubba:Which, side note, she's the one that later states that Mackenzie has a medical condition that could cause her to black out while driving, but she also got Mackenzie a license and a car, so it's a whole thing. Which brings me to my next point. I think that after the release of the Netflix documentary, Rosie and Bubba are easy to hate figures in this case. They're parts of the interview that made it to the final cut. You could argue it's editing, you could argue regardless, they're the ones that said it. It does make it easy to hate them from what's happened with the Netflix talk. I also don't think that they've made it easier for the families of Dom and Davion, whether it was intentional or not.

1:11:28Bubba:I think a lot of the things that they could have said and done could have really re-traumatized or re-heard or reopened wounds for both of the victims' families. I think that they could have handled a lot of things differently. Whether we believe it or not, they state in their hearts that they were trying to do right by Dom and Davion, and in hindsight, they admit to doing some things that they could have done differently, but they tried. I think family members of Dom and Davion would rightfully disagree. But I also do think that instead of focusing on Bubba and Rosie, if you really want to debate the intentions of someone in this case other than Mackenzie, it's also her parents, Natalie and Steve Shirilla, who actually played a huge meaningful role in all of this.

1:12:07Bubba:And that is who we are going to cover in the next part. Stay tuned, let me know your thoughts, and be safe, and I'll see you in the next one.

1:12:47The End

1:12:48Bubba:It's not you.

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