2025 Wimbledon Champion & Fool, Sem Verbeek

30:07But yeah, we ended up winning that match and yeah, it's a Thursday. I will remember for a lot of different reasons. And it was dramatic, that win. Yeah, definitely. So I knew beforehand a little bit of what was on the line, at least for Dutch tennis. I was vying to be the first Dutch male to win mixed doubles at Wimbledon. Thankfully, my coach kept that kind of away from me because I think if you get to know a little bit of those things beforehand, it can play into your mentality going into the match. And I knew for her that that would be her first mixed doubles Grand Slam. And then to top it off, we were playing a Brit.

30:48And obviously, if you play in London against the Brits, you know that the crowd is not going to be rooting that hard for you. 7-6, 7-6. Yeah, it was very high level. From the moment we started, everybody was playing very good tennis. It was really neck and neck, basically throughout, especially the first set. We ended up playing a really good tie break. And then it was a remarkable statistic for us is that our serve hadn't gone broken in the whole tournament so far. Incredible. And we ended up leading by a break in the second set. So if we kept that statistic, then we were going to win in straight sets.

31:33We ended up getting broken once, unfortunately. But again, really high level, got some tough moments. until that very last serve where I got to serve at 6-3 in the tiebreak. And yeah, I will remember that point for the rest of my life for sure. Katarina said it's very special. It means a lot. We had a lot of fun on the court. That's something you and I talked about, the importance of having fun playing tennis, which is not always easy, especially if you're doing something for a living. But she said we had a lot of fun on the court. I really enjoyed it. Thank you for playing with me, Sam. Yeah, again, she's such a nice human.

32:09I'm really glad I got to know her. But going back to your point about having fun, in 2022, that was true for me. And in 2025, it's still true for me. I know that when I get to enjoy where I'm playing and I enjoy doing it with someone that is not only a good tennis player, but just a good human, that's when I produce my best tennis. And especially in doubles, when you're together, whether it's mixed doubles or women's or men's, you know, you also have a little bit of a responsibility towards your partner. And I knew that she could be quite tough on herself just from knowing a little bit about her.

32:50So I think it was also a good strategy for me to try to keep things as lighthearted as possible. Right. And yeah, it worked out. If the combination of me producing my best tennis and her getting to relax a bit more produces a Wimbledon title, then I think it underlines the importance of having fun in what you do, especially as the years go by. You have to find that enjoyment, that fulfillment in what you're doing in any business, whether it's in tennis or for you here at The Motley Fool. It wouldn't be, it's now 31 years. So it wouldn't be 31 years if you didn't have fun doing what you're doing, but also with the people that you're doing it with.

33:34And I think that principle holds not only in tennis or for me playing doubles, the first who then what principle. I think it's so important to find the right people around you that can not only bring out the best in you, but at the same time have the balance of keeping it fun, making it enjoyable. Because you go through rough times, as your company is so tied to the market and the market volatility, as the market goes down it's also tough for everyone around here to keep their spirits up and you know in tennis when you're when you're not playing well or the results are not coming for a little bit you have to know that you still trust your doubles partner you still trust your coach and you can you can zoom out a little bit behind the tennis and and on the side of it so that you can still enjoy that balance and that all came together for me at Wilmothen especially in the final my my whole family was there um which was made it even more special um especially on that day for my dad um but success is so much better when you can share it with people around you um and same is true in in investing i think one of the lessons that i learned uh from these wimbledons tennis is a zero-sum game you have a winner and you have a loser unfortunately and And at the end of the day, the winner is going to share their wins with their team.

34:58And the losers, unfortunately, is also going to have to share their losses with their team. But investing doesn't have to be a zero-sum game. You know, you don't have to have better returns than this person. Or you don't have to have a better portfolio or whatever it is. Everybody can share in the success of a company or the success of a stock. And I think that's so cool and unique about the endeavor of investing in the stock market. All right, for now, we're going to turn the page of the Wimbledon chapter, and I'd like to look at how Rule Breaker DNA can exist both in an investor and a professional athlete.

35:34And maybe, if you'll be generous here, we can extract a few lessons from you, Sam, in terms of how Rule Breaker thinking might aid you in both of these disciplines. So I have three things queued up, and then we're going to play buy, sell, or hold, because you've generously consented to play our game with us. So that's sort of where we're headed. Yeah, I mean, if you don't mind, I'm in a very unique position as a fan and as a listener of your podcast to maybe ask you some questions as well. Okay, we'll make this the halftime, just like in football, the halftime entertainment. What do you got? Yeah, as I shared a little bit earlier, my sense of belonging at the level where I'm at became greater, let's say this year and last year.

36:16As someone with an English background and not a financial background, how did you manage that position for you, especially as The Motley Fool got more successful and as you got more successful in investing in general? How did you kind of beat that maybe imposter syndrome that I felt in tennis? I really appreciate that. I would say, for me, my first answer to that is, it goes back to having a good team around you. One of my favorite lines learned from Fred Singer, a former Motley Fool board member back in the 1990s, Fred said, there are no perfect people, only perfect teams. And so, in a lot of ways, yes, my brother Tom and I and our pal Eric Rideholm co-founding the company together, we were all English majors, and nobody had an MBA.

37:01And certainly, we had never been formally trained in the stock market, but we had had an excellent education. We had all gone to great schools with supportive families. And so, I think in a lot of ways, as we started a business, we started to realize we need to add some more people here. We can't keep this thing going on our own. And we need somebody who's going to account for what we're doing. It also would be good to have a lawyer, somebody who knows legal, can set up our company. Also, we need people answering questions right out there on America Online, which is really where The Motley Fool launched.

37:31I'm not even sure that's a brand, Sam, that you would know or remember here in 2025. Not anymore, no. So, but for older hands listening to me right now, you remember there was a time when AOL was on top of the online world. And we had a very substantial presence. And we realized the importance of community. And so, we had a lot of people who volunteered and just answered each other's questions on our discussion boards about investing or the stock market or a given technology or company. And so, it was assembling a group of people and building that over time that is the only way that English majors with no previous background, we weren't even the people who, like in grade school, were trying to sell stuff to our friends.

38:09We were not that business-motivated the threesome that founded The Motley Fool. Yeah, that's important, I think, for everybody also to know that you don't have, that's not so much about how you started, but it's about how you keep developing as a human and as an entrepreneur. So my second question is, as you were assembling that team and those people around you, I know you're famous for your rule breaker, investing stocks and the traits that you look for in companies. What are maybe some of the traits that you look for in people that you want to have around you, maybe personally and professionally?

38:46Well, I think first of all, character matters most to me. And one thing I really appreciate about you is I know I'm talking to a person of character, somebody who was raised in a family that understood that, and both for your older sister and for you, and no doubt for what you do as a leader, because part of what you've done is you've actually gone on to graduate the business program at the Association of Tennis professionals, ATP, which is above and beyond. And you've also represented your players to the ATP and said, can we make it better, especially for people who are not as successful as some of us, who can keep their professional career going with the ATP without overspending what they're making.

39:25So I just want to call you out as somebody whose character I admire. And I do think I'm a good judge of character. And no one's perfect, by the way. I'm aware of a lot of my own flaws, and sometimes I can see flaws in other people, but I would say that it starts there with people who you can trust. I think trust is the coin of the realm globally, and always has been and always will be. And so, I think building trust with people of great character, obviously, you also want to make sure that you have people who are doing the things that you're not good at. And any team of three co-founders, there are going to be a bunch of things that we're not that good at that we need to look for.

40:01So there's some combination of just who you would hire anyway. Sometimes in American sports, we say, who's the next draft pick? Best available athlete. Doesn't matter what position they play or what their role is. But then other people are saying, we specifically need this type of player in this type of context. So I think there's a balance there. But what I really mean to say is you want both. You want both people of character and people who fit gaps or fill gaps for whatever the organization is you're building. Yeah, and if I can finish with maybe one last question. Thanks. You know, in tennis, you go through ups and downs results wise.

40:37You're going to have a few losses in a row. Most of the weeks that I play, I lose. You don't win a title every week. As we relate that to the market volatility and, you know, in 31 years, you've had a lot of ups and downs. And I think you know now and your credo is the market goes up more than it goes down. And what were those early years for you like? How did you handle the down periods when you didn't have the experience of three decades of investing? And how did you still keep true to your another credo is just keep swimming? How did that happen in the early years? Thank you. In fact, that was our theme in 2022 for this podcast.

41:15And I remember our conversation. I went back there again and I said, along with Dory from the movie Finding Nemo, through all markets, but especially ones that hurt to be part of. And 2022 was one such, just keep swimming. And I think we updated the phrase because you're a tennis player to just keep swinging. So yeah, I obviously think resilience is such an important human trait. I think we have to learn as many good lessons from when things work as looking for lessons when things don't work. I think obviously when things aren't working, you can take solace in the notion that, well, I either win or I learn.

41:53And I think that's a good attitude. The good news is the reality is the stock market goes up more often than it goes down. It rises two years in every three. And so I think those off years, which keep happening, they're going to keep happening the rest of our lives. You just have to realize the full context of it. And especially if you have made that whole life commitment to your financial future and to those around you, your family that one day we all hope to have or we're part of, and the legacy that we hope to leave, I think it's so important to just be in it the whole time. So, I never counsel Motley Fool members or listeners to jump in and then jump back out of the market and come back.

42:32Buy low, sell high is a phrase I hate because it says sell, and it has everybody thinking they should be jumping out. What's my target price? So, Sam, I would say, as an early entrepreneur, as an early stock picker, I certainly made some bad stock picks, but the good news is, my good ones just wipe them all out. And I couldn't have understood that in full at the time until you start seeing the math of losing to win. And the reality is, like venture capitalists who typically, at their most successful, have a lot of losers, but their winners wipe all their losers out. That's why venture capital works in this country and in the world at large.

43:06I think it's true of our stock market investing as well. So, I don't know if I gave a good answer to that, but But those are some – you're catching me off guard a little bit. I love that you're asking me questions. I'm supposed to be asking you questions. I'm going to go back to that now. But I really appreciate that opportunity. And I also want to call out how much fun it is to be in studio with you. I'm so glad you're here in Washington, D.C. this week. I know you're playing in a tournament. I hope you do very well this week. But that really is the reason we're getting to share this together.

43:32I didn't know you were going to start surprising me with questions on my podcast. Well, after years of listening and interacting on Twitter, I know there are so many fans of yours and Motley Fool members, hopefully, that would vie for this opportunity that I have right now. So on their behalf, thank you for answering some questions. Well, thank you. And that's so gracious. And now I have a few more for you. So I was thinking about just rule breaker DNA. And DNA, I guess, is not a biological term here. It's more about a mindset and how you have benefited from both being an investor playing the long game and also somebody who's at the forefront now of a sport that many people love.

44:10But even if it weren't just tennis, just any sport, I love when breaking rules works. So I wanted to ask you a few questions about that. And I have three. The first one is, I wanted to talk about data and technology now, Sam, because I would say investors love a good moat, a good sustainable advantage. And increasingly, we find that it's when a company has a technological advantage over its peers, or sometimes even from a David position, much smaller than Goliath, but it has a better trick up its sleeve in some way, shape, or form. So I'm wondering, with that rule breaker mentality, do you care about and note things like analytics in and around your performance, wearables?

44:52Somebody said Hawkeye, AI scouting. How technologically helped or focused are you or not at this stage of your career? We definitely try to look at it as much as we can. I think another parallel with the information age of the markets and investing is that you have to tune out the noise to look at the data that really matters. And that's just a matter of trial and error, especially with AI going into tennis now as well. You can go into data that is so granular based on every point and court position and scoreline and all of that. so you can make it as I don't want to say convoluted but you can make it as precise as you want but the trick really is to find those data points that matter to your game and that matter to the game of tennis at large as well but that's going to be unique to everybody just as everybody can get kind of analysis paralysis when trying to figure out when to buy or when to sell or whatnot I think if you focus on the few things that produce so many of your results, I think you should definitely take advantage of that in sports as well.

46:05Love it. And I've always loved going back to baseball and Bill James back in the day. I've always loved analytics around sports. I think they do provide such powerful insights. We also are living in a world of infinite data. And I could imagine somebody could just get buried in their own data and unable to lift their tennis racket because they're so overwhelmed by all the things they could be thinking about when they're actually trying to play a point of tennis. By the way, one thing I remember from you when you last visited is a tip that you gave to all of us as doubles players is when you're at the net, keep your racket up.

46:35And you even said, I need to remind myself of that. Does that continue to be important? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, some habits are hard to break for sure. I guess there's probably analytics that would show you what happens when you're not keeping your racket up. And that's why you say keep your racket up at the net all weekend warriors when you're playing doubles. Yep, absolutely. no I think again I'm a big fan of if I pronounce it correctly the Pareto principle where 20 % of the things that you have or are available produce around 80 % of the results and I think that's so important in tennis as well you've got to find the tactics or the patterns or the strokes that really work for yourself and work for your game and build off of those and I think analytics are definitely a tool you can use to help with that.

47:23Are you conscious that across the net there are opponents being driven by that themselves? Is that pretty much de rigueur today? Is that how things work or is it still edgy and you're not really sure who's really looking at what data? Yeah, one thing about maybe the world of tennis or athletics in general that I'm not a big fan of is that when people find something that works, they tend to try to keep it a secret. They don't want to share those principles or the methods or whatever i try to make it a point for myself at least to to share those things that that do work for me um as you so eloquently put on your podcast you know when you light your own candle you don't have to burn someone else's if that makes sense um so yeah i'm not so sure exactly everybody has a unique approach to it um it does feel like the more successful athletes and teams or people are using technology and analytics to their advantage.

48:24And before we move to my number two rule-breakery question, Sam, what is an example for you of an insight that you've gotten from data or analytics that has changed how you play? Yeah, it's really the serve patterns for myself, especially on, let's say, the pressure point. You can see exactly the tendency that you have of, okay, I'm going to serve this serve at wide or at their body or down the tee. And that has really provided a pattern for me in over the years to say, oh, when things feel like they're tight or when there's a little pressure, I tend to go here. Sometimes that can be an advantage for me because I know that may be my best serve, but sometimes it's also good to know that, hey, they have that information available as well.

49:07So maybe we try to break the rules a little bit and go the opposite direction. But I think that has really helped me know exactly what my tendencies are. That is so cool. Thank you for answering question number one. Question number two, rule breakery. I'm going to try to make a really lame analogy here and just work with me, work with me, which I know you will because you do it so well. Whatever is hit your way, you're ready with Rack It Up. So I'm going to try to compare portfolio construction for investors to tournament scheduling. All right. So this is something that you would understand much better than I, but choosing which events to enter feels like in some ways asset allocation for athletes.

49:48So could you make us a little smarter about your mindset, both as an investor constructing a portfolio and then an entrepreneur literally deciding for himself and his organization, his team, those around him, what he should do next and what he shouldn't do next? Yeah, absolutely. So the way it works on the tennis tour is that the different level of tournaments give you an amount of ranking points based on how well you do so it goes from the atp 250 level gives you 250 points if you win the tournament 500 500 the thousands etc grand slam will give you 2000 points the different services in tennis are hard court grass and clay court so throughout the year you have the option of choosing what surface you want to play on depending on the calendar.

50:33So I think that is definitely a big part of how I schedule my tournaments is what surface is it on. And if I can relate that to portfolio construction is invest in what you know and what you know you're good at. Love it. So maybe there's something to be said to try to break a certain rhythm or something, but we tend to stick to what we know we can produce our best tennis at. And I think that's a good investor lesson, number one. The lesson number two is a little bit out of our control is because we sign up for a tournament with our ranking and that ranking has to be good enough in order to get into the tournament.

51:12So you can look at past cutoffs in tournaments to see if you have a reasonable good shot of getting into that tournament. And as one of the rule breaker traits is you want good price appreciation in the past. Yes. And so you can look at data from previous tournaments to see, are we going to get into that tournament? Or do we need to look at other tournaments to make sure that we get to play a tournament like that? And then third, it really depends on where we are in the season and how many tournaments we've played in the weeks or months prior. So as a tennis player, especially as a doubles player, you have full control over your calendar.

51:56so you can play as much as you want to. But the way it works for your ranking is that your best 18 results count for the points on the ranking. So even if you play 35 weeks in a year, your best 18 counts. I like that. Yeah, I think it's a good system. So what we have to be mindful of is, okay, how many results do we already have that will count towards our ranking? Do we need a certain amount of points to make the cutoff for this tournament? And also, how much time do we have at home with family or do we get to schedule a training block and things like that? So if I can relate it back to portfolio allocation, let's say Andre and I in Australia had a really good result.

52:39So let's say that's a stock that has gone up a lot in quite a short amount of time. For some, if it's above their sleep number, it might be a good idea to trim back a little bit. And for us, trimming back means taking some time to recharge maybe working on our game not in a tournament setting but that to then take one or two weeks and then go back with a fresh mindset into the next few tournaments because it's very easy to to want to try to keep writing high if you're if you're playing well but one thing that has over the years definitely not worked for me is trying to write that momentum. I think once you've made a plan with your partner or your coach and you like that plan, sure, you have to be a little bit flexible.

53:25As Morgan Housel always says, the only thing you should plan for is your plan not going according to plan. Both positively and sometimes negatively. But stick to that schedule. Dollar cast average if you want to. Set a regular interval and don't try to chase momentum just because you feel like, I'm playing well now, so I have to keep playing. And then when things don't go so well, you panic because I'm not playing well. Should I take more time off? Should I keep playing even more? But set to the schedule that you intended to beforehand and let the results speak for themselves. Well said. So it wasn't that bad a metaphor.

54:03No, it was great. I know you have a longtime coach, Jacob Meyer. I always think of coaches as giving us pointers about our serve or our backhand. Are you making the calls when it comes to your decision about how to allocate where to be? Is it in partnership with Jacob or with your father, who's a very wise and smart person, or your partner? Who actually makes the call in terms of where you're going to be next? I assume it's you. How much do you feel like it's on you versus the team making a decision? In the end, the responsibility ends with me and my doubles partner. But we will never make decisions without consulting whoever is part of the team.

54:42I think it's, like you said, in answering my questions, it's so important to know maybe what your blind spots are and to have people fill those gaps. Because, again, as you said, nobody's perfect. I can get insecure. I can get overhyped. I can get in all sorts of emotional states that may cloud my judgment a little bit. And then one of the things that Jacob is particularly good at, I found, is looking farther into the future than I can. Brilliant. Sometimes as a tennis player, you're very much looking at this week or the next month. He's been brilliant at looking at months later and even years later.

55:23So both, he keeps us grounded, but he also has good insight into, you know, what if you do well here or we should take maybe this tournament off. Because winning one more match in a later round of a Grand Slam means much more than winning a match, let's say, at a 250 tournament. And that's what he's very good at. And sometimes it's difficult for us as tennis players when you're in the rhythm of tournaments to realize that because you just want to win more matches. What a fine coach and therefore what a good long-term partnership. By the way, shout out to coach Ryan Redondo, who you mentioned three years ago.

55:58Such an important relationship for you. You're a college coach at University of the Pacific. And so obviously you are coachable and you appreciate coaching. How many days a year do you spend in your native city of Amsterdam? Wow, good question. Not a whole lot. I would say maybe a month out of the year in total, a month and a half, depending on how well we do. And when did you know you were going to be playing in Washington, D.C. in the tournament this week, speaking of asset allocation? So, again, just like any other tournament, the cutoff for the entry list was about two weeks ago. so I knew that during Wimbledon that we got into the tournament and then as Wimbledon in the mixed doubles went better and better I had a conversation with my doubles partner Andre and said hey what is your perspective because unfortunately he was not there in the second week of Wimbledon anymore I knew that I was not going to be playing the week after Wimbledon so if we had not played Washington that would mean we are three weeks apart from each other and not playing together.

57:04So that's a conversation that he and I have. What does this result mean for me, but also for you and for our partnership? So it was the day after the Wimbledon final where we called and we committed to playing this tournament. So about a few weeks ago. And I have my third rule breakery question for you, but I find myself still fascinated by where we are right now. So in brief, Sam, could you describe your travel schedule for any Motley Fool fans who might want to catch you because you're not just playing in Washington, D.C. on this side of the pond this summer. It's tripped off a whole, well, trip for you.

57:38Give us some dates and places. Yep. So this week, like you said, I'm going to be in Washington, D.C., hopefully as long as possible. And then my next tournament is going to be in Toronto. That's going to be next week and the week after that. Then from Toronto, we go to Cincinnati, which also lasts hopefully two weeks. And then from Cincinnati, we go to Winston-Salem. And that's the last tournament before we go up to New York, where the U.S. Open is at the end of August. So you were here for an extended period of time in the United States, a place you're very comfortable. It's sort of a second home for you, this country.

58:10Yep, absolutely. I'm extremely grateful for the lessons that it's taught me, the people that it's allowed me to meet and helping develop me into the tennis player and human that I am today. Fantastic. All right, my third and final rule breakery question, Sam. I'm thinking about your training and or your strategy as a tennis professional. I think the Rule Breaker Investing podcast audience loves when somebody finds an edge that others overlook or sees something that other people aren't seeing. So how about something that you do that breaks the rules a little bit, goes against conventional wisdom or what maybe you were initially told as somebody who's training or with your strategy in the game of tennis?

58:53Yeah, and as I alluded to earlier, I don't like keeping secrets. So for anybody who wants to copy this, please feel free. Love it. No, so I was in Atlanta a few days before here in Washington. And the reason I was there is because I go to a neurology clinic over there in Atlanta. It's called the Georgia Chiropractic Neurology Clinic. Wow. And I've been going there for a few years now to not only do brain training, but just get my body right as well. And I think neurology training and brain rehab is such an overlooked part of professional sports in general. You know, we do all of this physical work, mental work, emotional work, tactical work.

59:40And what we noticed, and this is a big compliment to Jacob Meyer as well, who said a lot of movement patterns and a lot of reflexes and habits are formed in your brain. and the better your brain can function, the better athlete you're going to be. And yeah, it's been an amazing, I think I would say six years that I've been going there. Wow. And yeah, that's definitely an edge that I found works. There are amazing people over there. So a big shout out to them as well. And I look forward to continuing my partnership with them for years. All right, our final section. Yes, Emberbeek has graciously consented to play our game of buy, sell, or hold.

1:00:25So, Sam, I'm going to be asking you about things in and around your world and our world, too, and ask you, these are not stocks, but if they were stocks, would you be buying right now, selling, or holding? And a few sentences as to why. You ready? I'm ready. Excellent. Buy, sell, or hold Wimbledon's all-white dress code. Strong buy. Why? Strong buy. I think the tradition and the classiness it represents is something unique to that tournament. And I think it helps the tournament stand out from the whole tennis calendar. It definitely does. Plus, white looks really good on green as a backdrop. Yeah, exactly.

1:01:03I think they chose the right color to have it all represented on court. Yeah, so strong buy. All right. Number two, I don't even know if this is a thing. AI coaches in pro tennis. So we talked some about real-time analytics, pattern recognition. Can you ever imagine having an AI coach, literally coach AI, rivaling the wisdom of old school human coaches? oh i'm gonna say jacob is listening probably i'm gonna say hold i'm gonna say hold um i don't see um ai replacing coaches altogether but i do definitely see ai becoming a tool that all coaches will at one point and in different capacities use in coaching absolutely next one up number three he's dutch he was born in amsterdam dutch directness buy sell or hold culturally efficient and honest, or could it use a bit more topspin?

1:01:58Buy, sell, or hold Dutch directness? Dutchman? Another hold for me. I am not very good at being direct, so it's something that I'd like to add to my toolbox when it is appropriate. But it's been definitely, the Dutch are blunt, for sure, for good or for bad. So something I'd like a little bit more of in my own character, but I think a hold for now. Very good. So we're holding so far. That might continue. We're about to find out now. Three years ago, we were joined by George Haloff, who I know is listening this week, our director, our executive director of the Motley Fool Foundation, George himself, a very talented tennis player and lifelong fan and coach and father and all the rest.

1:02:44and George would probably want me to ask about pickleball. So Sam Verbeek, buy, sell, or hold the pickleball takeover. As a tennis player, sell, as someone who is an advocate for sports, big buy, for sure. Yeah, I mean, I like my tennis, but I realize it's a great avenue for people to be active, to be outside, to be part of a community. So if they take the spots of tennis courts, it's a sell for me. but if they can have their own space, I think it's a great way to stay active. So that would be a buy for me. Very nice. And I like how you're of both minds about that. And I really have noticed about you, Sam, that you're very well integrated with your thinking.

1:03:25I feel as if I'm talking to somebody who can see both sides of things, and that might come down to some brain training and six years in Atlanta, or just being really raised as a good kid and a smart guy growing up. But thank you very much. I appreciate that. Let's go to number five. Just two more here for you. Number five, we're going to go with orange as a power color. So from the Dutch flag to Rafa's clay court kits, can you really not feel faster in orange? Buy, sell, or hold orange as a power color? Really strong buy. And that is just purely based on my patronism for my country. Now, as someone who grew up a lifelong football or soccer fan, the orange kits have always meant a lot to me, especially during Euro Cup or World Cup times that everybody in the Netherlands starts wearing orange.

1:04:17And hopefully I'll be representing my country in tennis in orange soon. So no, orange has a special place for me. I bet it does. And that was kind of a softball, but we're having fun here. I do remember from our conversation a few years ago, how meaningful it was for you to be able to hold the hand of one of your football heroes in your native city of Amsterdam as a kid and how that inspired you. Yeah, definitely. I mean, to come so close to such a great footballing legend, really, was, like you said, inspiring. And for young, young Sam, that was a dream come true. Yeah. So that was very cool.

1:04:53And who was that star? His name is Wesley Snyder. Yeah, Wesley Snyder. That's right. And I remember as the camera panned past the whole full lineup of the players holding a kid's hand, you were a little taller than Wesley. Sorry, Wesley. Sorry. All right, Sam, last one for you. We've gone from the sublime to the ridiculous. Let's go with Olympic eSports in 2025 and beyond. So a legitimate medal event or flashy sideshow next to something like tennis or the 100-meter dash? Buy, sell, or hold Olympic eSports. I would say buy. I would say buy. I mean, what those people are doing is considered talent in my book um they may not have the the physical prowess as the the olympic athletes in not esports but in regular sports do but i think talent should be celebrated no matter where it is um and as someone who is invested in the gaming industry i would very much like to see that um but no i i like i said i don't think we have to compare medals or or accomplishment of it in that way but I think if you can showcase that kind of video game talent on a global stage, then strong buy for me.

1:06:06Thank you. And as a lifelong video gamer myself, not so good at tennis myself, I appreciate that answer. I'm sure many others do. And Sam Verbeek, I appreciate your presence, both the physical presence we're enjoying today in Washington, D.C., Alexandria, Virginia, Full HQ Studios, but Sam is on Twitter X, among other places. And, of course, you can sometimes watch him on TV these days, depending on which tennis match might be on this week. I am delighted to have had this time with you, and I wish you the very best and look forward to your next visit. Thank you. Yeah, it's been a pleasure coming here.

1:06:38You have been an inspiration of mine for years now. And even though they say never meet your heroes, I'm very, very glad. And it's been a pleasure to finally meet you in person. Fool on. Fool on. As always, people on this program may have interest in the stocks they talk about. And The Motley Fool may have formal recommendations for or against. So don't buy or sell stocks based solely on what you hear. Learn more about Rule Breaker Investing at rbi.fool.com.