A Massive Win For Tottenham | Conor Gallagher, Roberto De Zerbi & The Relegation Crossroads

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1:22Jack:Hello everyone, welcome back to Rule the Roost podcast. Baker, welcome back. Spurs are winning games. Spurs are winning games. What's going on? Two games in a row. Two games in a row. I think it's been swept under the carpet a little bit that Deserby said about we're going to win five games in a row after Brighton. I mean, you know. Do we all have to get our hair cut if we win five in a row? What, like the Deserby? Like, no. Yeah, maybe we should all do Deserby. Just try and get that Man United fan. He must be gutted. Do you know Man Utd have now won three games in a row? Yeah, he's nowhere, that big fella with the afro.

1:59Jack:Everyone got a bit tired of it, didn't they? Everyone got tired of it. Yeah, he jumped his shark, you know, and we're all like, that's it, mate. We've done him. The Zerbi's done him. We're the new five in a row. If we win the five in a row, I'll say it now. If we win the five in a row, I will get the Linkin Park haircut and goatee. There we go. And I will start next season with the Linkin Park hair and a goatee. There we go. Fabulous. There we go. There we go. Subscribe to Rule The Roost podcast and all that wherever you get your podcasts. I mean, it's quite astonishing, isn't it? Like, I mean, Aston Villa away.

2:38Jack:We did our, like, rundown of the run-in, if you like, a few weeks ago. And I think we had us down as losing this match. Yeah. But still staying up. Had we? No, no. I think we said we were winning at Wolves. So we were winning at Wolves, we were losing at Villa, and we still projected Spurs to stay up. So, I mean, we are ahead. It is looking good. But outside of the bigger picture stuff right now, we will get into that. This performance in itself is a performance I haven't seen for Tottenham for a very, very long time. I mean, what did you make of it? Yeah, I mean, the first 10 minutes becomes 20 minutes, becomes 30 minutes, you know, of that first half, you were like we haven't seen this we haven't seen this you know it's obviously epitomized by Gallagher in in in that 10 role you know is we we talked about this a few weeks ago but I always expected that it would be a presser that they would put in that 10 role and I think it's a lot of people are saying with like Gallagher that it's like a throwback to what he was at Palace and it is but it is also 100 how deserve he used alexis mccallister you know is is in the a lot of people because he scored goals for you know the that's where the mac 10 came from with him type stuff but it's that nuisance part 10 but will also drop in and be the eight and be the six and spend a lot of time in there so i definitely think you know as much as we've said from Not much Deserby has talked about arm around the shoulder, motivation and stuff like this.

4:17There was a lot of what I saw this weekend that felt very similar to some Deserby Brighton in the shape that we saw. Using, you know, using Tell as a, Tell was really, and actually just even the left hand side completely, was almost a decoy to an extent. You know, all of our play where we were moving the ball around, certainly as soon as it came over the halfway line, was all down that right hand side. It was like maybe six or seven players were on the right-hand side of the pitch and really used Destiny and Tell as just runners. And that's very similar, very similar to how we used to see Deserbys Brighton where Solimarch, for example, and Gross would be out to the right, that more playmaker style.

5:00It sits that side and then Matoma is almost a weapon. So I think we can fully say this is Deserbys' time.

5:07Jack:I feel like I'm watching a different player to a lot of people because every time I say something on Twitter, like I think Tell is good, I get told I'm deluded or that he's actually useless or it's my sort of standards that are driving Tottenham into the ground. I mean, again, I thought, look, it was far from a perfect performance from him on the weekend. And I'm not saying, you know, every single thing he tried to pull off happened. However, what I see there is a completely rough diamond. I see a young player who has been, you know, he's trying to adapt to not only a new country, but a new team as well.

5:46Jack:He's been shunted in and out of that starting XI. He's been kind of like jettisoned from the team almost entirely by Frank. So he's had to come over quite a bit is my point to get to where he is. So I can forgive him for being quite rusty. But what I generally see at its core is a player who is brave, who is willing to try things, who seems to have a pretty accomplished technical skill set. Yeah, he can build on that. He can definitely improve. But, you know, the rush to kind of write him off, I find quite strange, don't you? I see him as a player that in a couple of years' time, if he is worked with and he continues to work hard himself, could be a real asset for the club, couldn't he?

6:31I think he's ahead of that. I do think it is interesting. Zerbe, when he talks about individual players, often, he's done a lot of praising, hasn't he? I don't think he's gone the full world-class type, you know, Liam a senior type, just overbuilding it type stuff. But he's done a lot of these are fantastic players, fantastic players. He often, when he mentions tells, adds the word potential to the end of it. So I've heard him say it a lot, I say fantastic potential, really great potential. Like he just adds the potential word to it. So I think there is definitely some roughness to him. But look, one is he obviously offers goal threat.

7:05He's looked an enigma of a player type stuff, you know, that you would class as like luxurious to an extent. But he made six recoveries on the weekend. That's a lot for a midfielder. That's a heck of a lot for a midfielder. He was fully built in as much as where we're trying to, everyone's trying to press. It doesn't work with Gallagher. like he does just become the dog in the middle of a rondo if he's the only guy that's doing that press it needs the people outside of him to also do it so you know i think everyone will talk about the defensive work that that gallagher put in in that place and they'll say the same with bentico and polinia but tell's also doing his bit he's not just this fancy guy tries to shoot all the time or or tries that's a ball six recoveries is a lot you know that's that's um can you give us some context context for it so that's like a similar this weekend that's the same number as Kobe Mainu again who had a you know fantastic performance against Liverpool it's the same as Bruno Gimerez on his like first game who made a huge difference to being back for Newcastle it's actually the same as Joe Linton who was out there to the left so that's big big numbers and they're quite high up as well in terms of in terms of the position so one you know when we're looking at sort of like defensive stats ones you're looking at like what is the number of recoveries they get but then actually where do they get them yeah so if i looked at for example i said when we're looking at stats for all these guys like dams guard on the weekend dams guard was like seven okay but four of his are like just outside his area where his job is i'll win the ball back and I'll hit the ball long.

8:47Whereas, whereas Gallagher and, and tell on Colin Morani, they really, along with, obviously we know what the Charleston's like is, you know, incredible or oppressing as a four, they all did their part. Yeah. I think everyone will give the defensive credit to those three center refielders. Everyone will give it to, you know, to, uh, England Gallagher, but, but tell Morani and, um, and Rashad. And I think that's why, you know, like Colin Morani actually comes off. I was like, was it 64 minutes, 65 minutes he came off. it's probably just because suddenly it's like we're now demanding so much of them in that press.

9:23Yeah, Mawani can only manage 65 of it. Tell was still going on the 89th minute.

9:27Jack:He had quite a nice minute, Colin Mawani as well. He's a player that's come under quite a lot of scrutiny during his time at Spurs. And I don't think a lot of it's been unfounded or unfair, really. you know there has been this talk that Deserby has pretty much earmarked him almost as somebody that could be a real real game changer for Tottenham Conor Gallagher was spoke about this after the game as well saying that Deserby's whole approach has been to have these seemingly quite intense one-on-one sessions with these lads sitting them down to remind them of who they were you know Gallagher's saying Gallagher said specifically he said think of the Conor Gallagher during his second season at Chelsea when he became the captain you know like think of that player that's who you are where's he gone kind of thing and you could argue he he made an appearance the other day at Villa Park um Colomarani is somebody who was one of the most sought after players in Europe during his time at Frankfurt you know that can't just disappear and as much as you know because this is something I've been sort of drumming into myself lately after as I keep referencing Andros Townsend talking about more often than not in these situations it's not the players don't care it's not that they're some overpaid prima donna that isn't asked about the situation they're in more often than not they're just sad they're just sad and they feel like they're not very good and that's why the team is not very good they they they put it on upon themselves and you know you can only speculate you can only speculate but you still have a fairly good idea of the way thomas frank probably handled this squad given his outward messaging which was generally we're not very good what am i supposed to do with this group of players whereas De Zerbe's coming in as we say has said I'm going to win all five and these are all amazing players even when we've lost Xavi Siemens and the whole narrative has turned to what are Spurs going to do now they haven't got any good players he said you know not in these words but he's basically said that's complete bollocks that we've got lots of really good players here so what are we what are we all moaning about um are you quite surprised by and I think it's fair to say this the sort of level of emotional maturity that Roberta does you know this is a guy that's come with this reputation of being a hothead but he's shown this real kind of calm emotionally mature approach to things at Spurs hasn't he?

12:03Incredible and I think there's just a lot of it that feels feels motivational but in a way that's relatively I would say relatively basic I mean it didn't feel basic watching that first half because we were like, we haven't seen football like this. We haven't seen football like this forever. But actually, there are some really simple things that he's done over the last four games. So, in my nerdy world, as I'll bring to you, 16 yellow cards in the last four games. The second most is 12. Go kick them. Come on, you spurs. Go kick them. More fouls than anybody else. Nobody else has committed. more fouls than us over the last four games.

12:47Look, you're a bit weak. Go beat some people up.

12:50Jack:I don't know if you've got the data there, but I would assume that we were very much the other end of the scale prior to this as well. Yeah. We've been nowhere. To be fair, we've done enough that we're catching up. I think we now have the most yellow cards in the league. I think we're now the dirtiest team in the league. Probably New Spurs. there's something you'll never sing that you know but it feels now in a way of doing it in a much more sensible way than oh what have you done way yeah yeah yeah well we're scrapping aren't we and that's what we need to do you know everyone's going to talk about the fact obviously that defensively we've been much better with kinski versus vicario and you see a lot of narrative of that's that's the big difference that's the big difference that's the big difference but quite simply we're not conceding the chances i'm pretty sure even even vicario who i was i think we last came on you know i first came on with you guys was like every other team in the league would have dumped their keeper a lot a lot quicker than what we have um but we're conceding so you know again let me go last four weeks um it's something like uh so minutes per expected goal conceded yeah so So the chances are that if you concede one next year, you'll concede one goal.

14:11So the golden aim is to be over 90 minutes because if you're over 90 minutes, chances are you'll keep clean. Over the last four weeks, our minutes per expected goal conceded is 125 minutes. That is top in the league. Second best is Leeds, which is interesting for next week. So the two best defensive teams in the league currently are Tottenham and then Leeds. for Leeds is 98 minutes, 125 minutes per expected game. That is absurd, absurd numbers that we're seeing. We're nowhere near that, nowhere near that. So our whole season average is 68, and that includes these four games. So it's probably more like 60.

14:55So if we're not conceding the chances, your keeper can't make the clangers. Your keeper can't just throw one in. We're doing all of the sensible things very, very well. So as much as it... How do you think he's achieving that? Well, maybe it's just Benton Kerr. Maybe the whole thing is Benton Kerr. I know maybe it's just all Benton Kerr.

15:21Jack:I mean, he's brought Polinia back in from the sidelines as well. He'd sort of been pushed out of the side a bit. I can't remember if Tudor really used him as a go-to player, at least anyway. I mean he's another one that deserves a shout out for the weekend because he was absolutely phenomenal Polinia as well just bizarrely so yeah you don't wash your jersey during a win streak you don't switch seats when your team's up big and you definitely don't shave during the playoffs when things are working you don't change them that's why when you drink Jägermeister you drink it ice cold anything else? well that'd just be bad luck drink it cold or don't drink it at all Jägermeister damn that's cold drink responsibly jägermeister liqueur 35 alcohol by volume imported by mass jägermeister u.s white plains new york yeah i i mean i always felt he would come in under under the zerby at some point because it just feels like his guy like his and and do you see the do you see the post-match presser with deserve it where he talked about talked about this talked about the grabbing of the chest you should see like the excitement on his face and he quotes fantastic he said like i see this and he said i just go crazy and i'm like i quite enjoyed that it's uh so yeah look desire makes a big difference i don't know in i think it was in the first half there was um i think it was rogers trying to get through behind and and van der Ven done what used to be quite a trademark of just flies across the pitch absolutely glides at a million miles an hour and just sweeps the ball off and and off they go and I was like, I cannot remember the last time I saw one of those bits where Van der Ven just came, that was trademarked.

17:09We really got used to it. It's one of the things we used to love seeing was that the ball would go down the right-hand channel when it's off he'd come from his left side, fly across and take the ball across. And I was like, I genuinely can't remember the last time I saw that.

17:24Jack:He has looked a lot more composed, hasn't he, the past couple of games? It's the desire. is the elephant in the room here Christian Romero not being in the side because Kevin Dancer has come in and looked a pretty solid assured player and I'm not quick to jump on the narrative I know Christian Romero is annoying in many ways but I do still think he is an elite centre back so I'm I don't always like to jump on the whole kind of you know we're better off without him stuff however it does feel like there's maybe a level of composure to everything that we perhaps don't get with him as much as i do think his kind of emotional flailing is overstated at times and i've gone on about sky building this narrative around him it is kind of undeniable that he does get flustered and he does lose his head sometimes i think i think from a defensive point of view of course is having palina in the team is having dancer in the team going to improve view defensively and make you more solid yes but on the flip side what i don't think we do right now do know sorry what i think we don't know right now is what happens if we get punched in the mouth because yeah our actual attacking numbers in terms of the amount of shots that we're taking like the expected goals that we're creating they're low so even even during these last four games there's only walls fulham and burnley that have created less xg than us in the last four games that's uh that's some uh some grand company we're in there yeah well it's not a lot now it's to be expected without uh without a naturally creative player isn't it to a degree we're grinding and that's that's you know so so as much as is um is danzo the right dog for the fight right now rather than Romero probably but if we were 1-0 down would we start getting a lot more frustrated with Dan so with Polina and all those type stuff and this is a lot of the conversation right because there is naturally going to be talk as we come towards the end of the season especially if we stay up what happens to a Polina what happens to a Rando Calamuani because these are two players that we do have on loan and there has already I've seen some talk the past couple of days that De Zerbe would like both of them to stay permanently now we know there's a hell of a lot of discourse around Polinia and the type of team he makes Tottenham in the respect that fine Polinia is great as we're talking about right now so this type of situation that we find ourselves in when we need some fight when we need some solidity we need to ensure that the other team aren't scoring goals against us but if we want to you know look down the road at them, if you like, and say, we want to be the team that's trying to win the Premier League again, like we were under Maurizio Pochettino.

20:18Jack:Do we achieve that with players like Polini, in particular, Polini or Gallagher? Those are the two sort of names that are generally seen as like the horsemen of the attacking apocalypse, aren't they, really? But I think you shouldn't forget that that deservedly signed Milner. Was that one of his? That was one of his. yeah so is is like i don't know what was he that he was 37 he's he's always been 37 as far he he was he was 16 and then he was 37 and that's that's james milner you know that's it but so it doesn't surprise me like even the the links out there that suggest that we've got like a pre-arrangement with Andy Robertson and like maybe he just thinks well actually as squad guys having the likes of Apollina seeing the grabbing of the shirt the pumping of the fist is that good for the likes of Archie Gray yes is an Anamopson good for the likes of the development of the doggy yes does Dan so in in his ways tell Romero do you know what mate you do need to head the ball occasionally it is a squad game I guess the question is do you need as big a squad next season let's just say we do stay up do you need as big a squad when you're only going to potentially play low 40s in terms of the number of games that we play because we won't be in Europe when you've got a week to prepare between each game we're getting ahead of ourselves let's just stay up well yeah exactly this is this is the thing isn't it right now because i would say spurs are this is it's such for me it's such a pronounced crossroads because i've i have been i've been blown away by the level that spurs have been playing at under under deserby i just you know it just in the in the very if we look at kind of like the structure of the performance and the vibes of the performance against Aston Villa.

22:27Jack:It's up there with some of the best football I've seen at Tottenham. Honestly, in years, it was really, really, you know, mind-blowing to me. And I look at De Zerbe and I think this is what he's achieving with a squad that is completely or has been completely shot for confidence, is completely shot for fitness. if if the board and it's a big if if the board learned from this season the huge warning sign that's been given to them this season if this is if Spurs stay up we could really build something incredible with him and I look at this guy and I think wow the you know the only way is up right and we can start dreaming about big things again but the flip side of this is relegation and that's the abyss for Tottenham that's financial hardship that's selling lots of players that's a huge period of uncertainty whether we come straight back up or not it definitely definitely completely alters the outlook of the football club for quite some time I would say so it's it's it's just it's really it's really quite pronounced this kind of position that we find ourselves in and it's one that it's hard to get a real kind of because as we keep saying here you know we can we can talk about the squad and we can talk about what this means going forwards but it almost feels like it doesn't really matter right now what really matters is game by game taking each game as it comes great we're out of the relegation zone that's brilliant and that is good I would imagine for vibes and for mentality however it means nothing if West Ham if West Ham get a draw against Arsenal or even win against Arsenal, which I can't really see happening, but could happen and we don't beat Leeds, then it's back on again, isn't it?

24:20Yeah. I mean, the positive for us is it might only be this game, mightn't it? This Leeds game might be the only game that matters for us. We might be up just from one game because how the fixtures are kind of playing out quite well to us is we know the hands of our opponents by the time we play. So obviously West Ham play Arsenal before we play. If they lose and we win, then we have four points with two games to go. And then they play Newcastle before we play, and that's a way. So if they lose that game, then we can do whatever we like against Chelsea and Everton because they can't catch us.

25:09So that's, I think that's, you know, it's just really fortunate for us in terms of how the games have played out because, and we've got plenty of time, not only a little bit of time, because obviously you've got, it's the West Ham Arsenal game Sunday 4.30, but then obviously we're Monday night, eight o 'clock. The other thing is just to note of how well this is playing out for us in a way that some people might say is a conspiracy. We can talk about that. If Arsenal beat West Ham, then obviously there's no chance. Even the 0 % chance of Leeds going down becomes 100 % 0%. There's zero chance. Cannot possibly go down.

25:50So therefore, the motivation for Leeds, suddenly they might turn up with their pina coladas, ready for the beach, which has turned out well for us. And then our game against Chelsea has been moved to the Tuesday which means we get a whole which is a whole 48 hours after Newcastle play West Ham.

26:10Jack:If we talk about their respective form as well like you've already said Gamera's is back for Newcastle who have been in stinking form but they've started to pick up again. Gamera and Joe Linton, Anton Ali the whole midfield three are back. Can they chase down? I don't think they can chase down Europe anymore can they? but they can play for a bit of pride can't they at least and then and then you know interestingly the news comes out that eddie howe because there's been a lot of talk about will eddie howe come or like will he go anything like that so that so the news is that eddie howe will stay so suddenly that news comes out they're at home guess what happens they win i mean to be to be fair if brentford and Bournemouth have a bit of a stinker and a few of those teams do, they could maybe break into the top seven.

26:58Jack:They could maybe get Europa Conference League, but it's unlikely. It's unlikely. It's very unlikely, but... It's still the last home game of the season with their big midfield freeback. This might be it. We talked a lot about it will definitely go down to Everton. It might not even go down to Chelsea. I mean, Chelsea, I know they look chaotic at the moment, but I'd never bank on them not showing up for a game against Tottenham, to be honest. Somebody tweeted me this weekend saying that I'm pretty sure Chelsea Football Club were created merely to be a thorn in the side of Tottenham Hotspur. It's kind of how it feels with them.

27:37Jack:Literally. As soon as I saw Palmer miss that penalty yesterday, I thought, I know what's coming now. When everyone starts saying, oh, Palmer's not going to the World Cup, maybe he should go to the World Cup and do all that. I'm like, we know what happens when he plays us. but it might not go that far. I guess the question is, therefore, would we mind if West Ham and Arsenal drew this weekend? I think the main... Can we be green, D? I don't, I just, I get it. I know that Arsenal winning stuff is horrible and unpleasant, but I do think this whole experience has just made me really appreciate that I definitely love Spurs more than I hate Arsenal.

28:20Jack:And I always felt that the two were kind of pretty evenly balanced, but I will be hoping that Arsenal win against West Ham. I've got to say, you know, I just, I, the thing is, part of this is I've seen Arsenal win that thing. I've seen them win it at White Hart Lane. You know, I was literally there as they were doing it. Like, it's not nice, but that's kind of, that's the bad thing that's happened. And Arsenal, the reality is, it's not really worth getting all upset about it to a degree because they are a big football club that spends loads of money. It's going to happen sooner or later. They are going to win the league at some point.

29:00And if anything, it should just act as a template for Tottenham,

29:05Jack:a club with similar sized resources to Arsenal, that you can achieve this if you prioritize sporting success. If you don't prioritize a partnership with the NFL or concerts or fucking go-kart tracks, if you actually remind yourselves that you're a football club and you want to compete as one, then you can do that. You know, you don't have to just inherit a good play. Again, somebody got tweeted at me, if Spurs had been in Arsenal's position, we would have had Saka and Odegaard and said, yeah, that's enough. You know, we'll do all right there. But they've built year on year on year. This was going to happen.

29:47Jack:What shouldn't be happening is Spurs getting relegated. No. And it's not entitlement. It's a complete catastrophic failure if Spurs go down. It's not just the natural order of things. It's appalling. Whereas you could argue Arsenal winning something is the natural order of things because it was going to happen sooner or later. And it's probably over, Julie. I haven't done it for 20-something years now. I don't know. I agree. Because it just, strangely, with some more optimism of what we've seen under De Zerbe, and also, you know, as you watched Man United yesterday, when they went 2-0 up, I was thinking to myself, God, like, this is comfortably the third best team in this league.

30:34And obviously, they ended up scraping down 3-2, but they probably still are comfortably the third best team in this league. Well, look where they were. Look where they were a year ago. They were where we were. Now, they spent 200 million on three attackers. That's really what they've done. Their defence is still... Their defence still isn't as good. When you look at the individuals, they would take Poirot. They would take Romero. They would take Van der Fede. If Destiniel Degui was fit, they'd take him to... It'd probably be an argument that him versus Dorgou, you know, in terms of talent. But there's not a huge difference between those guys.

31:07Jack:equi-talented, aren't they? But most of those defenders, we would take them over this, but they've kept that. They're still rolling out Maguire and guys like that every single week. They're absolutely reliant on Casemiro in centre midfield. They've got guys like Agate, who we hate when it's like, oh, we haven't got the passing. Agate is literally a criminal against football. Yeah, they still put him out and they're going to finish third. And one of the massive reasons for that is they've played 20 less games than us. It's huge. 20 less games equals a crap load less injuries. It equals much more time on the training ground to work on the work they work with.

31:46It's no coincidence that in these current weeks where actually we are having almost like a week between games, De Zerbe is managing to make huge strides. I have much, much higher trust De Zerbe than I would have Amorim, than I do even carry, is we have got a world-class coach. And you think if you give this guy a Premier League and we back him in the way that he wants on this summer, the bounce back could be so strong. And then when you get that optimism, you're like, we're either so high, or we're completely fucked. And so, yeah, I think we have to cheer on Arsenal this weekend. I mean, it's just...

32:25It also makes a big difference, because obviously if Arsenal win, even if we draw against Leeds, that gap becomes two points. Now, why that gap's important if it's two points is it then means if we draw one of our games, it's probably enough. Probably enough. A draw is probably then enough because our goal difference is so much better than West Ham's.

32:45Jack:What are we on? We've got about 10 goals difference. 10 goals on them, yeah. Yeah, so if we stretch that lead to even two points and then they lose to Newcastle, all we then have to do is draw one of our last two games. That feels slightly more manageable. significant isn't it it's just this villa game is i hope it doesn't give everybody like a false sense of security and i can't imagine deserve you would allow that type of thing to happen but i would say just on a fan level the sort of constant terror and panic that i felt for the past few weeks has almost completely disappeared which isn't good there's a long way to go still there's still matches to come but that Villa Park Villa Park win just feels so significant in the context of this season overall and in this instance I mean let's let's let's talk about this while we are here because obviously there's a lot of dissenting voices about that performance we're not just talking like West Ham YouTubers and stuff we're talking about you know supposedly respected journalists and things calling into question the integrity of the Premier League of Aston Villa's fight and all that type of stuff right I mean up until this point it's been pretty standard service hasn't it for a club to rest players ahead of a significant cup game Villa you could argue have probably quite comfortably got Champions League qualifications sorted through the league I know Bournemouth are starting to breathe down their necks a bit but they should probably do it if they manage to get through this game against Forest they've got Burnley this weekend yeah I mean it should be done a point versus Burnley and then Bournemouth have to beat Man City it's done so are we sort of saying that they're this whole thing is just nonsense, really?

34:47Jack:Because, I mean, it completely is. And I also think it really devalues quite how good Spurs were in that match as well. And also how many injuries we have, how ravaged our squad is. Yeah, look, there's a million ways in which you can cut it, which doesn't add up to anything of any tangible value. Like, if you say, oh, they were without, like, seven of their players that they would normally play. You're like, we've done that all season, mate. but that's our whole season and nobody's nobody's been you know when they've been talking about Tottenham going down they're not saying oh I feel so sorry for them they're not there's no sympathy for it so and then you go well nobody's talking about Forrest being in disrepute but Forrest made eight changes yesterday when Villa made seven Jamie Carragher literally said he commended it that he admired the bravery of them rotating the squad in that fashion yeah so So what you are talking about is the application of the Villa players that played.