Are Spurs A Complete Mess? | Will Lange & Venkatesham Be Fired? The Pochettino Rumours & Igor Tudor (Q&A)

23:26Jack:Yeah, exactly. You can't. You just can't. I mean, the guy's got, like I said, 12 or 13 games to sort of give himself any realistic chance of keeping the job. And even then, we don't think he will. So how can he afford to risk youth and spurs? There's no way that the buff will go, oh, yeah, we want you to come in and play our youngsters because the other bloke didn't. We're fighting a relegation battle, whether we like to admit that or not. that's the case and I just can't see as much as I'd love to see the likes of Luka get an opportunity I just cannot see it it's just got too much to it's too much of a gamble maybe if we have the luxury of ever being two or three up in a game with five minutes to go I think he'll use them but other than that I just cannot see how he can sort of unearth a youth gem and they become the Roy the Rovers story I just don't see that risk being taken, to be honest.

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26:16Paul O Keefe:Get a$75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. We've got a lot of questions coming, Paul, and I don't want to cover over too much of it in the natural flow of our conversation. So I think there's a lot here that we can tack on to the conversations that we're already having right now. We'll start with one from a little known chap called Billy T, who says, what would be the minimum Igor could do to actually enter the summer conversations?

26:52Jack:It's an interesting one. I said previously, what do they do? Again, you never know where you are at the time. What do they do if he won eight, nine games and they qualify for, say, I don't know, the semifinals or the Champions League? To me, from the position that he's taken over, that would be a monumental success in terms of relative success. Obviously, he wouldn't be successful in terms of winning a trophy or something, but it would be success in the case that he's taken over a club that are just completely dishevelled by injuries and five points above the drop zone. Imagine if he did win eight or nine games and progressed in a couple of rounds of the Champions League.

27:33Jack:From the people that I speak to, the understanding is that that isn't going to happen and literally it would take a miracle for him to get the job, i.e. winning the Champions League sort of thing. even then, you know, that could be sort of, you know, drop the mic moment for him and just walk out of the building, which would probably make more sense because you sort of can't top that, I don't think, at Tottenham. But the clamour, the public clamour for him to get the job would obviously be with the fans, would be huge. But I don't think that they see him in their plans. I think they have a clear They're sort of, I say clear, but I think they have an idea of who they want to install in the summer.

28:15Because it's probably the easiest PR win of the century.

28:19Jack:And I don't think there's any secret that it'll probably be Pochettino in the summer.

28:24Paul O Keefe:Which is, I'm very, I'm very conflicted on. I can't, I can't lie in the respect that I loved Pochettino. I loved the sort of the first spell under him. It was, it was brilliant. But like you say, there's that element to me of the board here thinking we can just get a PR win here. Like it doesn't speak to them sort of going back to the drawing board thinking we need to think about strategy here. We need to think about why we're hiring people, what we want them to do, how we're going to support them to say, you know, achieve the aims that they have. To me, it feels very break glass in case of emergency.

29:04Paul O Keefe:Fans are getting angry. let's stick let's stick the the you know the teddy bear that they all love in in front of them right it it feels a bit cheap but then at the same time i'm like bring it on you know give me him back and be fine i want to feel like uh i want to feel a bit of love again from the club right yeah and i

29:24Jack:think you know 90 of it is a is a pr win isn't it and then they've got they then when you look at the actual mechanics behind it and you think right okay so first of all they would have a manager a willing manager someone who is desperately wanting to come to your football club and desperately wants to improve your situation so that is is a win on it in itself because you often get the feeling that Tottenham are attracting certain managers who have a massive ego I think they can be the one that can change things around and take a massive pay cut and think pay salary, sorry, and then a massive cut when they eventually get the boot.

30:01Jack:I mean, Spurs' manager's cycle is about 16 months. So, yeah, I said to someone the other day, I won't worry too much because even if Pochettino didn't get in the summer, his term would come round soon enough at Tottenham because they're a whirlwind door of managers. So, eventually they would land, I think, at Pochettino's door anyway. So, the talk of De Zerbi and all that, I don't think he fits the Tottenham mould. I don't think he would last. and I don't think the other candidates are anywhere near in terms of an affiliation to the club and a love for the club that Maurizio Pochettino clearly has.

30:34Jack:He seems as deluded as we are in terms of... You know, he's been bitten by the bug and for whatever reason, that love-hate relationship that we all have with Tottenham, Maurizio seems to have it as well. I mean, the way he talks about us in interviews, I often sort of think from a point of view of his current employer, for example, he even did it at Chelsea, which was pretty brave or foolish, whatever way you want to look at it, where he still kept trying to give love to Tottenham. And, you know, like I say, for whatever reason, it feels like he is one of us, if you like.

31:13Paul O Keefe:And he did actually do a good job at Chelsea. That's the thing. You know, it kind of, it gets swept under a bit that like, you know, he's a bit of a spent force. He only ever did it at Spurs and blah, blah, blah. But I do still think we are probably getting a pretty decent coach to come in and take charge of things, which, you know, I know we all have our dream list. I know a lot of people really want Xavi Alonso or Julian Nagelsmann or somebody like that. But I think at this stage where Spurs are at, right, the noise around us, That's really wishful thinking, isn't it? That you're going to get one of two of the most sought-after coaches in world football right now, right?

31:53Jack:Yeah, exactly. I think Spurs need a bit of a comfort blanket at the moment the fans do anyway. It's what they know, isn't it? They've proven it. The ironic thing is that, you know, Ritzo could walk through the door just as the last man standing Ben Davis exits the club this summer, you know, which would be quite a change for Maurizio because he's not the same person and we're not the same club now. So that's a fascinating aspect as well.

32:20Paul O Keefe:I think that's probably for the best though. Sorry to interrupt, but I think that is probably for the best.

32:24Jack:Yeah, we'd be able to judge him on this particular spell, but the romanticism of it is, you know, we can't rely on that. We can't just start, you know, the first time round, you know, the very tricky start at Tottenham. and towards the end, some of the fans were really disparaging about Maurizio. So, yeah, I think we do suffer from short memory syndrome occasionally and the romanticism of it. We need to be careful that we're not too caught up in that, I think. I don't believe he's the same coach that walked out the door. I think he's been harmed by the PSG and Chelsea spells personally. But it'll be, again, fascinating to see how that transpires and develops over the summer period.

33:10Paul O Keefe:Spurs fan so at Spurs fan 1995 says I'd be fascinated to know if they've actually reached out to Pochettino yet and if so how they would plan to prepare for next season the summer window and everything like that what with him being at the World Cup

33:27Jack:yeah I mean I've not studied in detail the sort of the key dates like when when when USA would realistically exit the competition I'm not sure you would anticipate that there would have been conversations at some point the claim is that there hasn't been from what I understand they're still claiming that they didn't reach out to Pochettino in this particular period when Thomas went so that's quite interesting I don't necessarily believe that I think they would know through contacts and through not necessarily agents with Mouto because he doesn't have an agent he has a PR guy and he has his team around him, but there's ways to get to Maurizio and to sort of get his feelings on the job.

34:13Jack:I think he's made his feelings on the job quite patently clear anyway, so I think that they anticipate that that wouldn't be an issue. So, yeah, it's looking at the key dates. I mean, when do USA realistically sort of go out of the competition is one thing. Like you say, with transfer targets, that, again, is another fascinating angle because at the moment they sort of have to plan that they'll be in the Premier League. But obviously, they also have a caveat that there is a possibility they won't be. So, yeah, it's a fascinating process. I'm not quite sure how technically that's going to work.

34:49Jack:And I suppose the club will continue with the supposed targets that Johan has drawn up. Although you wonder just how extensive that list is because they've been a catastrophic failure in the last window. So, yeah, there's so many sort of little intricacies and bits that we don't know and how they're going to navigate those parts of the whole sort of transition if they do decide to go down the Pochettino route. So, yes, it's all fascinating stuff.

35:19Paul O Keefe:There's a lot of people have asked, and I'm trying to – I don't want to leave anyone out, but James Reid 28 has asked. Who else has asked? Sorry, quite a few people have. uh alex mckenna christopher manuel j jm riding and like lots and lots of people mark bait up they're all basically saying are vinai and langer off in the summer what what's what's going on there do you do you think they'll still be here or do you think soon as the season's over bang

35:51Jack:they're out the door i've you know from from various conversations you know with people The feeling is that they're on their sort of last legs. The issue that the Lewis's had is that they couldn't be seen to remove the whole executive team as well as losing Parateach, losing Matt Wells, losing other coaching staff, losing the manager, looking at absolute shambles in a relegation dogfight. And then you decide you're going to get rid of your CEO and you're going to get rid of your director football as well. Yeah, that is just total carnage. So I don't think they were in any position in this particular window to do that.

36:27Jack:I think their cards are marked. You know, talking, like I say, speaking to people that sort of would be in a better position than myself to know. I was saying that, you know, particularly Ben I, I think his whole handling of the whole sort of transfer window in January was appalling when he decided to tell everyone that the club would try and increase their wage bill and increase the sort of level of player that they're going for. And then to end up with none, you know, is a total embarrassment. And I think that that was foolish to sort of put that out there two weeks in or three weeks into a window.

37:06Jack:I think that cost the club. I think it cost the club on targets. I think every agent would have been like, well, I suppose they're good for another£25 ,000,£40 ,000,£50 ,000 a week on the wages if they approach my player. so I think that was really foolish for a man that's supposed to be a PR guru I think he's been pretty apart from handing out a few free scarves, I don't see what input he has done that's dramatically changed the fortunes of the club, we've just got even worse and looked even more embarrassed by him, so I don't see him long term staying at the club and I don't see Johan long term staying at the club, I think the new they're going to employ another DOF in the summer that will be the from what I understand the new manager will have a say in who that particular person is and I think once that sort of those wheels start in motion I think that I think Johan could be out the door as well so I expect both to leave because I don't think they've covered themselves in glory by any stretch of the imagination

38:11Paul O Keefe:So I was going to say as well if it is Pochettino you can't just from what we know about his personality, he hates working with directors of football anyway. You would imagine that he wouldn't really like working with someone like Johan Langer anyway who seems very keen on inserting himself into a lot of different functions at the club, right?

38:30Jack:Maurizio loves Steve Hitchin. He's very, very close with Steve. I'm not sure the relationship is there these days with Paul Mitchell, who I see his name being branded about. I don't think the relationship between those two is what it was. So, I don't see it. I think that they'll want a manager that has some sort of say in the DOF because I think that's the key isn't it? They've got to work together. They've got to be able to have that unison. They've got to be singing from the same hymn sheet. There'll be no doubt that there's been Ange will have asked for players that they've not delivered on.

39:08Jack:Frank would have been the same and Johan's come up in a crucial transfer window with a 19-year-old left-back from a Brazilian club. Yeah, and that's all very well. He may go on to be a fabulous player and we don't know. So it's harsh on the lad to sort of knock him personally. But that's not what Tottenham needed at the time. They needed some experienced attacking players and more in midfield. They failed on that and Johannes failed pretty much in that department. when it's been about signing established players. We had that story where he went to do a deal for a player and Daniel himself had to fly out and rescue the deal and get it done.

39:53Jack:I think there was a tell, wasn't it? Yeah, there's concern about just how authoritative he actually is and able to get those deals over the line. So I fully expect him to depart the club, to be honest, and sort of brush that episode under the carpet.

40:16Paul O Keefe:At THFC American says he'd like to hear your thoughts on if you believe Enoch-Joe Lewis will sell the club anytime soon.

40:29Jack:The club is always for sale, so that needs to be the first message. Ultimately, Enoch are an investment group. That's how they make their money. So at some point you have to mature an investment. That's just how it works. They've obviously got going to mature an investment at Tottenham that's worth billions of pounds, far more than they've ever invested in the club. And I think it's a case of Joe from the outside. Joe was very much sort of hands off, allowing Daniel to do a carte blanche pretty much as long as he kept within a certain amount of parameters in terms of finances. they've come in I think that the younger generation not necessarily that young but the generation of his kids and the brother-in-law and who else you know they've all got involved they want to sort of see if they can run the ship and I think the hope for me anyway is that they just get bored of it and they get bored of the scrutiny they get bored of the criticism the constant criticism and they look to move the club on I think that those talks probably still happening you know sort of intermittently and yeah I do I don't think they'll be here in a couple of years time to be honest I think they'll get out

41:48Paul O Keefe:that's yeah

41:52Jack:maybe it's wishful thinking but I just don't see how you know the scrutiny as it comes as taught them all the time and the criticism and the constant you know fans on their backs and they're not experienced at running a football club their businesses aren't that's not their sort of background in terms of the people that are now involved even has not run the club previously the brother-in-law is just eating some voice apparently in the boardroom it just all seems that no one really has a clear direction the chairman, Peter Charrington he doesn't fill me with any confidence as to what he knows about the game from what I understand is very

42:40Paul O Keefe:little so it's just worrying isn't it it's worrying that that it got into this sort of state to be honest and I think there's we sort of had a question that you know did Daniel Levy get out at the right time and all that sort of thing but this is partly of his this is largely of his

42:56Jack:making isn't it as well yeah I think when someone has so much control over everything I mean literally down to what napkins are put in corporate. You know, when that isn't there, people are like, oh, what do we do here then? And that's how it feels to me. It feels to me like they've walked in a bit naively, expecting just to have, because their name's above the door, that that's going to make all the world a difference and the fans are suddenly going to buy into this ambitious stuff. And that's not the reality of how it works. It just doesn't work like that.

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45:26Paul O Keefe:Nobody's going to believe anything that you have to say going forwards. and again like you know as everybody always says yeah it is a difficult month like nobody nobody really did any business in january we actually did quite big business in getting conor gallagher which is you know i know isn't popular for the narrative around the lewises and stuff but still we did we managed to get him in whatever you think about him um but yeah i think we broke broke even though didn't we pretty much we always do don't we that's that's the that's the thing isn't it so that was ambitious yeah and it's just i it's really hard you know like on one hand i i don't i don't want to see i don't want to sit here and do podcasts or even as a spurs fan like watch spurs games and be miserable about it i want to get lost in the moment i want to enjoy just watching spurs again but the the problem is is that you know the toothpaste out the tube isn't it really we do talk about football in depth we do overanalyze probably every single facet of it and I don't think this is a Tottenham problem I think this is shared across every single football club you know you look at Arsenal right they're having a they're having a remarkable season this year right and yeah all right they might be falling off a little bit in the Premier League but you would imagine they are probably going to win something this season and still their fans don't seem particularly happy about it it's it's it's a funny it's a funny old place that football has has has found itself in um and yeah you know i appreciate that people say this sort of thing podcast and stuff is part of the problem maybe it is i don't know some people would just argue it's replaced sort of people talking in pubs and stuff like like like we used to yeah who who knows you can't really have a clear sort of line on that sort of thing things change and that's what it is but again it's just the the fact that with Spurs you see these patterns emerge you see I was talking about it with with Tom who I had on the other day that you know we can look at somebody like Newcastle we can look at a huge club like Newcastle over the over the Premier League era at least they were massive at the in the early stages of the Premier League they have a bad owner in Mike Ashley who ultimately ends up winding them down to a championship club and there are certain patterns that you can no one's immune from relegation ultimately is my point and spurs seem to be walking a really really dangerous tightrope whether whether it happens this year or not i'm not saying that it's definitely going to happen but this chaos this lack of clarity about who does what are the club what the vision for the club is who's actually just in charge of organizing stuff it it's it's worrying isn't it and it's always worrying when you look at like an institution something that you look up to i think we do naturally as human beings we look up to things we look up to institutions we want to know that somebody is in charge right and when the people in charge seem to not know what the fuck they're doing we do start to worry and i think that's kind of the situation that spurs for me i would say from my perspective.

48:37Jack:And like you say, who is in charge, ultimately? Yeah, at some point we're told that this Nick Boucher or whatever his name is, is pulling the strings now and he's the main man. But what qualifies him to run the football club? You know, he's the son-in-law of Vivian. Yeah, yeah, I believe he is, yeah. But there's not much known about him, but he apparently is pulling all the strings and sort of it was him that spoke to Vinay and Johan told him to sack Thomas, allegedly, from what I understand. But, yeah, we don't know anything about this guy. With Tottenham, at least the board, if you like, had an identity under Daniel because everything was Daniel.

49:25Jack:So everyone knew, you know, where to sort of point their angst and their anger towards and the rating of the club was mainly aimed at Daniel. Now we have this sort of, you know, the famous Lewis family. That's what we ever hear is the Lewis family. Who exactly? Who is the one that's saying this, that and the other? We don't have that. And then we just have this front man, Vinay, who sort of ended up being sort of this sort of cartoon character that just doesn't seem to have a clue what he's doing about. from he talks well in interviews. I mean, imagine sitting down on the couch with Fabio and Johan.

50:07Jack:You know, this is our dynamic duo. This is our recruitment team. This shows our ambition. We've got two DOFs and then one leaves after about three weeks. I mean, and then you have the whole Heitinger episode. This is all on his watch within the first sort of eight months of him being in the job. Then we had that, obviously, we spoke about before, the letter in the programme about how ambitious they are and player trading and all that. And then they have to sack the manager that they said that came top of their 30-man list. The whole thing is complete. They've made a complete mess and it's just a complete shambles.

50:46Jack:But we're still none the wiser, having ousted Daniel, whatever it was, six months ago, as to who is actually the main sort of protagonist now at Tottenham that's there every day on the phone like Daniel would have been. Who is that person? Is it Vivian? Is it this Nick guy? Yeah. Is it other parts of the family? No one seems to have a clue what their roles are. And I don't know if that's the same within the organisation, because if it's that messy on the inside as well as the outside, it's no wonder that's the state they're in.

51:21Paul O Keefe:It's just worrying, isn't it? It shows you there's no quick fix. None of us know. Even if you were to bring in a Xavi Alonso somehow, you pay him whatever he wants and you give him 200 mil to spend. If that structure isn't there, yes.

51:36Jack:You can imagine Thomas Frank as well, because he's been brought in. Okay, he's been brought in under Vinay and Johan, but Daniel was still there. So there was still that main sort of, you know, almost fucking villain-like type at the top of the tree. you knew Daniel would still be the man, regardless of what Vinay and Johan are telling you. So he's walked into that structure. And the next thing is, it's, oh, well, Daniel's no longer here. He's gone within a month of your appointment. You report to Vinay now. Then all of a sudden, the Lewis family are starting to get involved, making decisions, you know, overriding those two.

52:14Jack:So, yeah, for Thomas Frank as well, he's unlucky in that sense, that behind the scenes he's walked into a complete mess and he's being told they're ambitious and we have faith in you, you're our man and ignore what the press is saying, you know, crack on sort of thing. So there's just too many mixed messages at Tottenham. And like I say, it's just, if it's as messy as it appears, then it's no wonder they are where they are.

52:45Paul O Keefe:It's quite an interesting one here from Dan who says, what's the best or most efficient way to hurt enix pockets all of the talk of protests walkouts etc are fine but what's the thing that will absolutely destroy them and force them to sell up um we know it's to interrupt their cash flow but how specifically i mean from my perspective it's don't go to games don't buy tickets isn't it if that's how you feel if that's what you want to do the easiest way to protest is make sure that that stadium is is actually empty and not oh i'm going to go to the North London derby because it's a big game against Arsenal and everything.

53:20Paul O Keefe:It's being resolute in that, isn't it? Yeah.

53:23Jack:It's really difficult for fans, isn't it? Because ultimately, ultimately... It's part of your life,

53:30Paul O Keefe:isn't it?

53:30Jack:Yeah, I choose not to go and I choose not to fund Enoch. But that's one person. I'm nothing. They'll just sell their ticket to someone else. That's the way that football is now. Fans are becoming less and less sort of you just can't make that sort of impact now. You could at a club of a lesser standing, for example if people are unhappy at their local or non-league side they lose 100, 200 supporters on a Saturday that would literally destroy the club If Spurs lose 5 ,000 tees and tinker holders they'd probably be quite pleased because they could then put them out for corporate sales and things like that so unfortunately the beast that is the Premier League and the Premier League's cartel if you like they don't give a shit ultimately, they're not interested and they can put out all these nice narratives and these nice spins of without the fans we're nothing they don't care for the fans they don't give a shit about you and that's the reality at the top and how you affect that unfortunately depressingly I don't think you can have that much of a major effect.

54:49Jack:You need mass numbers doing it. You need mass people to avoid going on the concourses before games. And people just aren't going to do that because people say, yeah, but that's my release. That's my two, three hours a week where I'm not supporting the club. I'm going there because I'm meeting up with my mates and it's all about that camaraderie with their pals that they meet in the football and that sort of stuff. of them. Football clubs massively obviously take advantage of that. So it's really, really difficult. Obviously merchandise is something you can stop buying but then they're going to still sell that online and abroad to people that can't get to the club.

55:27Jack:It's just such a tricky situation for fans to be in and I don't know personally what the answer is to that. I think it's impossible, isn't

55:36Paul O Keefe:it really?

55:38Jack:They're just too powerful now. Football is just too big and it's just so difficult. People say, oh, boycott games, sign your backs on XYZ minute and all that. It's all very well, but that's not going to have a lasting effect, unfortunately, I don't think. And, you know, I see the way that the Trust put questions to the club this week or last week, whenever it was, they released their minutes and they basically just give them a backhand and said, go away. And that's the way that they treat us. fans is with contempt now. We're more of an annoyance than anything else, I think. That's the way it feels.

56:21Paul O Keefe:Well, let's end on this one, Paul. There is a big game on the weekend coming up. Tudor FC says, what's your favourite North London derby moment or memory?

56:33Jack:It's definitely the one with Conte in charge where they played Rob Holding at the back. I actually tweeted about it yesterday. so we're sort of covering what I spoke about yesterday but that night myself and a very good friend Johnny parked up at the school off the high road walked down to the high road and you could just smell something in the air and it's the weirdest sensation I've ever had at a football game you talk about electric atmospheres, that night on that high road I think we just stood there in about for 10 minutes sort of frozen to the spot just to sort of take in the sort of whole, I've never seen a sea of people like that either as well.

57:17Paul O Keefe:It's true because you can feel it in reverse. I remember going to the...

57:20Jack:It was such a weird experience, but a brilliant one.

57:24Paul O Keefe:Because I was going to say, I remember going to Wembley when we played Man United in the semi-final of the cup and there was just something in the air then where I was like, we're not winning today. And it felt like when you looked around, even though we were miles better than them at that moment, you saw the United fans and they were all, they had this buzz about them where it's like we beat Tottenham in a game like this and lo and behold you know that was one of the most chastening defeats I think we'd had in under Pochettino to be honest um yeah but yeah that was unbelievable I also loved the when Kane first came to prominence you know he scored the big header yeah well the one before that with the header when he I think Bentaleb teed him up and he he scored the header and it felt like that was the moment when the tide was turning against them and from that point we started winning quite a few games and also harry kane was suddenly the figurehead of the club and obviously the mask holder i i love that a lot of people moan that that was the game where we actually messed up winning the title because we allowed you know them in to score an equalizer but yeah but still that the goal alone that harry k moment was yeah yeah yeah i just remarkable but the the thing i'm holding hope to is that you know they didn't look very good against Wolves last night.

58:42Paul O Keefe:They whiffed that one. And if we get a bit of a bounce, Igor Tudor's already saying the right things. He's not hiding from the fact that we're playing Arsenal. And I felt like one of the main things that used to irritate me about Thomas Frank is it felt like he just didn't talk about what was actually going on in front of him. You know, it always felt like he was just trying to sort of go around the edges of everything all the time. and, you know, we played well for 20 minutes the other day and this and that and just talk about it. But the fact that Tudor's come in and said, we know this is a big game, we know this is important for the fans and we want to win it.

59:19Paul O Keefe:That's what you want to hear your manager saying.

59:21Jack:Yeah, and I think with Thomas as well, he was always talking from the perspective of an underdog and you're not an underdog at Tottenham. In the sense of at Brentford, you can say nice things about the opposition and how good they are and, you know, because you're not expected to beat those people. I think that's a different expectation. I think he was naive there in the sense of the nice things he would say about other clubs. You don't do that as Tottenham manager. You don't say how good Arsenal are playing or what a great side they are and all the rest of it. At Brentford, you can do that. No one gives a shit.

59:53Jack:And that's with the utmost respect to a club that I have a deep affiliation to in Brentford and the people there are fantastic. But the expectations and the levels that are expected are not one and the same. And I think that adaptation for Thomas was too difficult. And I think in the media, he wasn't necessarily saying the wrong things per se. He was saying the wrong things as Tottenham manager. And I think that's where people got frustrated with him as well. Like I say, it all seemed a bit sort of naive and a bit sort of, you just can't talk like that as Tottenham manager. They're a massive club and you've got to sort of, you know, you've got to back that up in their press conferences and say that not how good everyone else is and how bad you are.

1:00:42Jack:That's just not going to win anyone over. That's just naive for me, that part.

1:00:47Paul O Keefe:So with that in mind, Paul, we're beating them this weekend, aren't we, mate? We're going to have them, aren't we?

1:00:52Jack:Do you know what? Honestly, it's the sort of thing Tottenham would do. It's the sort of thing Tottenham would turn up on that day against big opposition. and over the last few years, Tottenham sort of have performed better against the better clubs. Not all of them, obviously. Chelsea's always an exception. But yeah, I mean, the other week when they came back from two down against City and they've gone to Man City this year as well and this season, I should say, and they won there. It's fascinating. There's so many little facets and so many different little sort of stories that can develop from that game is utterly fascinating.

1:01:33Jack:Obviously, we all go into it with absolute dread and fear of getting a tonk in. But like you say, Arsenal, the wheels might not have fallen off, but they're certainly a little bit unbalanced at the moment. So the opportunity is there. Yeah, big, strong crowd. Hopefully everyone can just get behind the players on Sunday and leave everything else at the door for 90 minutes. And hopefully we can we can put a bit of because if we can if we can go a goal up then obviously for them they're going to start having doubts on because psychologically at the moment they're a little bit fragile

1:02:11Paul O Keefe:THFC flag's got a big TIFO on the go as well so hopefully it's going to be going to be a good atmosphere but

1:02:18Jack:we just all have to sort of just bide our time to the summer now back the boys back the club stay up and then go from there exactly and then we can we can have a sort of autopsy in the summer and hopefully a few people in the boardroom and a few people at the club are joining Thomas on the doll.

1:02:40Paul O Keefe:And on that note Paul, thank you very much for joining me today mate. Always a pleasure to talk to you Jack. Always a pleasure mate, thank you very much. Is there anywhere where people can follow you? I mean everyone knows where to follow you already to be honest but I'm trying to be polite. I'm pretty sure that.

1:02:59Jack:So yeah, they know where to find me and to hunt me down when something doesn't come through.

1:03:05Paul O Keefe:Yeah, exactly. Your fault, isn't it?

1:03:07Jack:Yeah, exactly. But that's all good. All good nature. Brilliant. Cheers, Paul. Thank you. Thank you.

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