Are There Positives To A Tottenham Relegation? | Atletico Thrashing, Forcing ENIC Out & Championship Away Days (Q&A)

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1:22Jack:I mean, they're like the Keystone Cops at the back at the moment, aren't they? Top them. Goalkeeper slip. Oh, he's done it again! He's done it again! What is happening here? Alvarez. They're getting Bicari already, down below us already. Tudor made the decision. He's going to change it. Kinski seemingly can't handle it.

1:45James Regal:Spurs can't handle it. And Atletico Madrid are three-up. And this is embarrassing.

1:52Jack:Hello, everybody. Welcome back to Rule The Roost podcast. Jimmy, James, look no pressure mate but you're a funny man right are you going to find some source of mirth from this situation from the other night at all maybe

2:09James Regal:first of all mate thanks so much for having me I've been a huge fan of yours and this show and your animations going way back when so it's a big honour for me to be on here in terms of yeah i mean you have to have a sense of humor to follow this football club because it's just every single time you open up your phone and you know check social media or watch a game you're just battered with misery and awful at least at the moment i feel like it used to be pockets of it right you know they give you some hope and you felt good for a while and then it's like oh no no no no no no you know but now it's like every single day it's like worse and worse and worse

2:51Jack:um i saw i saw an arsenal fan tweet the other day saying it's not even spursy anymore this has turned into something else and as much as i resent that term that that's kind of it on the

3:04James Regal:head isn't it yeah well spursy the idea of spursy was coming so close to something and then blowing it but maybe maybe this was a sort of a rebrand thing when v night came and is like well you know we can't we can't be spursy if we never get close to anything anymore let's just let's just be totally unapologetically shit for two years and no one will ever call us maybe they'll forget they'll feel sorry for us and we'll we'll rise from the ashes as like a football club that people actually not the entire country wants to fail for some reason i can still can't put my uh finger on

3:36Jack:i don't think i've heard the word bottom used in uh reference to tottenham hotspur quite as much as i have done in the past few days everything's a bottom right now spurs have hit the bottom when are we going to reach the bottom so on and so forth it is quite mad isn't it mate you know like even within the context of everything muscle smashing the league burrs being on the verge of relegation it's not it's not even just that we show peace fixture go away to the wonder metropolitano once again avenge you know the scene of the crime from the champions league final all that type of stuff right it's not just that we go there and just get murder balled out of the tie hey, they win 2-0, fine, we get to go home, we have another game in London to look forward to, whatever.

4:19Jack:The defeat, and it's not even the defeat, the manner of the defeat, the farcical nature of it. I mean, when I spoke to Billy Tee the other day, he was basically saying the Spurs simulation is broken. It really, like, it feels like some sort of, it doesn't, it feels like we're an ant under a magnifying glass just getting, like, tortured, doesn't it? Like, every single turn seems to be another, I don't know, like one of these, like, humiliations. you know how people talk about you know when people talk about celebrities the way they they became celebrities is because they get entered into these sort of dark satanic cults and they have to go through humiliation rituals and it's tied up into all that epstein crap and everything right this is our humiliation ritual this every single game there's something else that's going on what like how how how do you make sense of it all james it's so interesting you said the

5:07James Regal:simulation thing i think a few of us are feeling like maybe because we all have main character syndrome but sometimes i honestly feel like it's certainly not me who was like oh i like this podcast oh can i come on it please i can't just i can't just listen to it and enjoy it at face value you have to be part of it because that's that's my mo um but it does i almost feel like sometimes this club is a reflection of of my life um and and it's just it's just there to torment me and me alone because and not just because oh your football team lost but it's the it's the it's the incredibly specific and creative ways that we find to to just fuck it up it's you know like you said you know no one i don't think anyone a lot of people say oh you know we shouldn't really be trying in this tie we should play the kids and i think it's sad but that's a fair assessment to have ahead of that game right we have to stay in the premier league it really doesn't matter we're not going to win the champions league realistically you know it's like you said go there put in a decent showing you know yeah two nil simeone classic but it's like three minutes in the falls over and it's uh it's uh it's horrible and it's it feels i actually i i signposted this quite a few weeks ago when it looked like you know things were were bad i've heard i'm hearing more people kind of caught on to this now but there is the distinct possibility that we play Chelsea at Stamford Bridge two games before the end of the sort of the penultimate game right they're the ones that get to do it they're the ones that get to relegate us Arsenal win the league and it's West Ham that survived in our place and the whole of London rejoices against our misery and it's the ultimate doom I'm sorry to the listeners here to like make them feel bad but or worse than they are but it's the ultimate doomsday scenario and I feel like somehow I've manifested it i don't know how but it's that like it feels it feels so ludicrous that it has to be a simulation i don't know what is going on remember that shitty thing you did when you were 17 years

7:09Jack:old jones that that's that's it that that's what's that's what's led to this this this whole unfurling of events um where were you at on on kinski mate like there's you know tottenham culture war who could have imagined but there's a lot of people myself included feel just on a human level quite bad for the guy young player making his champions league debut two catastrophic fuck-ups some of us can blame the pitch or or whatever you know what's happened has happened do you feel do you feel bad for him or is it just simply he's a professional he's not done his job properly was the right decision to bring in vicario at that point i definitely feel

7:47James Regal:sorry for him on a human level and my immediate ire at the time was at the manager for picking him um when i saw his name on the team sheet i wasn't one of those people who was like oh finally we've dropped vicario i was like it was a big eyebrow raise i was like okay this guy has not played in the best part of the year last time he did play he looked very iffy not only that but he's kind of fucked us both ways now because he's ruined the confidence of a young player sure maybe he isn't going to play for us again but he's ruined his confidence so we now don't have a backup keeper and he also sort of betrayed his main goalkeeper one of the so-called leadership group by dropping him for a champions league tie for a guy who never plays i'm assuming without any injury causing it so he's he's fucked the confidence of two goalkeepers essentially in one fell swoop so i was angry with him i'm not angry with him for taking him off i do actually think he probably had his best interest in heart there he was like the head's gone get him off the pitch and deal with it but you know you have any young man any person you know we've all been there various levels of our career when you've made like a massive fuck up you just want the world to swallow you up most of us don't have to do it in front of millions of people who are actively wanting the company we put we work for to fail at the same time so they're gonna have a laugh on the internet yeah poor guy um saying that i do i might be misremembering this so maybe correct me but i feel like there was like maybe a few months ago he was in the press like saying i should be playing uh you know kind of casting aspersions on the coach a little bit and you know

9:22Jack:i think it was yeah more through the agent stuff wasn't it like yeah we see you know some players do which yeah you know again i guess this all sort of comes back to like we're sort of talking about with romero's contract a lot what promises are made to certain players from the club and you know regardless of that if you're coming into a into a situation you haven't really impressed anybody then stands to reason that you're not going to play and you would imagine that's the reason because vicario has been pretty terrible all season long um but yeah i don't know if you saw thibaut courtois sent him a message where he said he sent him an instagram dm to say that uh it's tough what happened to him it's very hard to accept mentally but i told him that atletico's pitch causes problems for every single team that plays on it so um on the pitch i mean Where do you start?

10:14Jack:Where's the line of dark arts versus actively, seemingly cheating, watering an opposition's penalty box, as has been speculated has happened? Yeah, we've seen Kinski go twice. We saw Van de Ven go for one of the goals. I'm pretty sure other players were slipping around all over the place. It feels a bit boring, doesn't it, to talk about a game against Atletico Madrid and say, oh, you know, they weren't very nice and they employed the dark arts. But it does feel a little bit more than that, doesn't it? Doesn't it feel like something UEFA should have more of a grip on or is this just what happens in football?

10:52James Regal:Yeah, look, it's not nice when it happens to you. I think our players and our fans have every right to be pissed off about it. But in some ways, it's just like we should be doing that. Like we should be using every single little thing at our disposal right now to fight our way to stay into this Premier League. And whether it's players, you know, diving like the Arsenal lads do or doing something weird to the pitch or, you know, turning the team around from the way they normally want to, whatever it is. like that's that's how you get these little advantages that a club like Atleti has managed to do you know throughout all these years of trying to compete with huge behemoths like Real Madrid and Barcelona so yeah I think the authorities need to look at it for sure like objectively but like why not like fair play they did they did an absolute number and look how beautifully it worked for them you know and the weird thing about that game is actually when I calmed down a bit I was like actually like they didn't really batter us like i didn't i remember the like chance after chance of vicario making loads of saves and that we had a couple of good opportunities you know people were saying oh maybe they took their foot off the gas at 3-0 but they didn't like simeone was geeing the crowd up at 4-0 like the players were really hungry to get like six seven eight past us and make a statement so it was it was like a disastrous game but like we weren't apart from those three incidents we

12:18Jack:weren't that bad were we it's i don't know it's one of those things it's difficult because it's such a such a freakish game it's such a freakish occurrence to be what three four nil down within 25 minutes you don't know what impact that has on the opposition as well how much that dims their intensity or anything i mean i can't you know i can't say i watch an awful lot of atletico madrid But, you know, I know they're not really famed for their like front footed football under, you know, seemingly rally in some way, shape or form and actually see out a fairly respectable end to the game. Really nice finish from Dominic Solanke, which, again, it's one of those I think we've sort of made a habit the past couple of years of scoring bangers when we've been just in an awful position.

13:07Jack:So they're going to be kind of forgotten. but it was a really nice goal from him really well worked goal and you know good finish from Pedro Porro as well so there are glimmers of hope there but whenever I say that I'm always sort of conscious of the fact I'm running the risk of sounding like Thomas Frank who would in every press conference say well we weren't any good aside for that 20 minute that 20 minute patch of the game but I mean it is what it is it's just it's a shame that something that was seemingly and this is what I was saying in the post-match was sort of a free hit it was a Champions League like you said at the top, nobody's expecting Spurs to win it it's just a chance to build a bit of confidence or whatever get our league season back on track the fact that that was just such a catastrophe and the narrative around it is so apocalyptic right now it is just so it's just so emblematic and I keep using that word all the time and so I was trying to find another one I need to dig back into my thesaurus but it's just so emblematic of what the Tottenham season is it's just it's just the Mick McCarthy voice over and over and over again um Igor Tudor he is you know he's going to be taking the press conference at Hotspur way ahead of the Liverpool game thus you would imagine he will be in charge for the Liverpool game you know yeah that that horse like noise there Jim that's it's kind of how we all feel isn't it I mean it it seems ridiculous yes I can see from the outside it seems entitled and bratty and all these sort of things to be demanding a manager's head after what is it three four games but it's gotten worse under his tenure.

14:54Jack:The new manager bounce has been a deflation, if anything. I don't know. In my opinion, we just can't allow it to continue. There's names that are floating around. You're Daish's, you're this, you're that. For me, it's just, I think the most viable candidate is just Ryan Mason. Just get him back in. He knows the club. It looks like we're going down anyway. I wouldn't blame him if we did go down under his stewardship. I just don't see right now whatever option we have other than somebody that genuinely cares about the club knows the club knows a lot of these players already that can just put them in their best positions and try get them to go into every match and give it as much as they can right I mean let's scale it back where are you at on Tudor and who would you like to see come in if you did want to get rid of him Tudor should go

15:47James Regal:the moment he came in I didn't know much about him but i looked at his cv you know i was like he has what i call um relegation face he looks like stellini doesn't he you know they look similar i can't really explain what that is it's just like there's a sort of there's nothing really behind the eyes the mouth is sort of in a permanent low droop he's bald which doesn't help you know he's he gives me big christian gross vibes i think there's just certain guys certain managers out there that have relegation phases like you can see there like you can sort of almost project forward to the day that we're down him on the touch line looking sad that was my immediate instinctive reaction when he came in i listened to all the podcasts there were some people out there talking about the eudonese stuff like the firefighter was like all right look he's here now maybe he'll come in and it was just again the wrong decision seemingly like i'm going to echo what other people have said already but this team didn't need a disciplinarian coming in changing formations they needed you know very reductive proper football man around the shoulder tell the players they're great again you know give them something make them have fun again they're not having fun so really you know he has to go But then it's like, I just, I don't trust the hierarchy at the club on any decision they make at the moment.

17:15James Regal:And I think that is really what's at the core of all of this is it feels like trust is disintegrated across that football club. The players don't trust the owners. They don't trust each other. They clearly don't trust the medical team to keep them fit. You know, like as professional footballers, their body is their tool and they're seeing all their mates constantly get these injuries. so or do I feel confident to really go into that challenge or make that run uh the manager doesn't trust the players the fans don't trust anyone and it's just it it's just the perfect storm for the whole thing to implode and collapse and I wanted to come onto this and get you know be a bit more hopeful because you know god knows we need it but I think I can only see it going one way um

18:00Jack:it's but it's tough isn't it and i think right now it's i do like throughout all of this i do want to say like again you know a lot of people have been asking about and talking about the stages of grief i'm still not in acceptance i'm not accepting that spurs are getting relegated i'm still between bargaining and depression and there's still that bit of me that's like there's there's just under a quarter of the season still to go a lot can change the first quarter of the season we were I think third in the league or something like that like things can things can change very very quickly um there's a lot of talk about like oh look at West Ham oh look they played in the FA Cup the other day and they all had a nice big team photo they're all so unified but are we forgetting like what a mess they've been for the majority of the season it won't take much for that to fall off again maybe they're peaking too soon who knows you know like there's there's so my point is there's so many narratives that we apply to spurs like this is the worst this terrible thing's happening but you can just you can aim that anywhere and leads have been in horrible form forest have not been very good themselves either like that we have to just cling on to the facts you know we have some players coming back we do have some players coming back and

19:14James Regal:yeah go on it's just i mean that's beautiful i'm not i'm not here to like crush your spirit i think it's great that you have that mindset but the one thing missing from all those clubs is they're not dealing with the entire country actually world of football now because we're such a worldwide meme everyone wants this to happen it's like Leicester in reverse everyone wants it to happen and I just feel like the energy of that the players must be aware of it thank god Mickey van der Ven's turned this phone off I think they should all turn their phones off and not not paying attention to it imagine being at the heart of that this is how bad it is like as just as a side note right so i started dating this girl a couple of years ago like she grew up in qatar she had no interest in football whatsoever i think she went to like a world cup game once but you know anything i told her i really liked football on like the second date and she said oh do you support a team and i said yeah i support tottenham and immediately she went oh what do you think of tottenham she doesn't follow football that's how far it's been allowed to go so yeah I don't know I'm not I'm not hopeful you broke up with her you broke up with her at that

20:20Jack:point I'm assuming yeah kicked her off the bridge never saw her again yeah I do know what you mean in some ways I feel sorry for the players in other ways I don't because I do feel like it's already a pre-baked excuse for them to just give up because you can just blame Spurs I was saying this even vin i van kateshin who has been objectively a total failure in his time in charge this is a guy who's probably getting paid what at least a mil a year or so probably you know if in bonuses that will be in seven figures as well if he if he does well i'd hope he won't be getting any of those um but this is a guy that you could quite conceive you know you'll be doom scrolling five ten years time whatever the equivalent of doom scrolling is at that point And you'll see Vinay Vengteshin on Arsenal Fan TV's podcast or something like that.

21:13Jack:And he'll be laughing about the fact he got Spurs relegated. He's an Arsenal man. He's the man that took Spurs down. And it won't be about his failure as an individual. It'll be about Tottenham. It'll be about this institution, this club and what a failure it is. But like you say, that's, you know, it is because of this weight of just banter around it, which, you know, it's how it's been. I do think we have fanned the flames of it. I do think Enoch have fanned the flames of it. I think there's a level of this. My sort of feeling on this, mate, is that I think that most, really, most of the big clubs, if you like, there's a level of people enjoying their downfall.

21:53Jack:People have enjoyed Manchester United's downfall. People enjoy it when Chelsea have a bad season, even though they come back and win something massive, usually after they've had a bad season. and people have definitely enjoyed Arsenal's downfall. But the problem is that those clubs generally all have the safety net of having people in charge that have basically a baseline expectation for what the club should be achieving. So even there's, you know, a prime example of this is Manchester United, who people treat as being this like total absolute basket case, this awful, you know, look what's happened to them.

22:30Jack:yet they have won more than Arsenal have in the past. Since Ferguson's gone, if Arsenal had won everything that Manchester United have won in this so-called terrible era of theirs, you wouldn't hear the end of it. I think they've won one or two Europa Leagues maybe. They've won a couple of FA Cups in that point. They've won two, three League Cups. They've still won a lot of stuff. We'd be over the moon if we had even a slice of the success that Manchester United have had. But the thing is, the relativity between these teams it just doesn't stand with Spurs and this is the the ire that we have for Enoch is that they just don't they don't have this they don't have this baseline expectation seemingly they've allowed look at the way they've allowed these past two seasons to to unfurl um you know we've got and I can't be bothered to get into this one because people always get all angry about it but you know everyone is as good as admitted now that you know the open message at the club last year from ang postacoglu was that we're throwing the league like what to win a europa it's great look the europa league was a great memory and all that type of stuff but what serious club allows that mentality to be to to be bandied around the halls of of it as an institution it's it's absolutely it's absolutely ridiculous it's it's mental and it's mental that this year it took so so long for Thomas Frank because I understood it I understood it for a while the idea that yeah okay look Vinay worked with Arteta and he gave him a chance and look you know it's it's it's reaping it's you know whatever rewards now hopefully not but you know I think that's another one we're gonna have to swallow and but it was quite obvious it was quite obvious that Thomas Frank was not up to task it was quite obvious that the players weren't in it for him you know we had Jed Spence and Mickey Van Der Ven walking past him on the football pitch.

24:25Jack:It just seems like there's absolutely no standards at the club, essentially, set by the people in charge of the club. Already now, already, as we find ourselves in this position, they're briefing all the press, being like, well, Enoch aren't making the footballing decisions. That's all on Johan Langer and Vinay Venkatesham. It's just, it's a complete exercise in bollocks, basically. And it's, yeah, I mean, this has been a sort of a long-winded point around like the fact that yes I know we don't help ourselves but it does make me very angry when the media and everybody else has a pop at us they treat us as like this exceptional case because it does allow silly things to happen it allows the fact that you know it should it should have been a genuinely it should have been a scandal that um what was his name Ashley Williams the old Swansea defender I think he literally came out and said on match of the day didn't he that like well nobody wanted Spurs to win the league and everybody wanted like Leicester to win the league so he essentially didn't play very well against Leicester or so I don't know there's there's a lot of examples of this there's old mate the referee at Stamford Bridge saying you know oh we just I didn't referee the game too closely because I knew Spurs would shoot themselves in the foot what are we talking about here this is a this is a Premier League referee pretty much admitting to a level of of corruption really a level of you know I don't know you start sounding a bit with a lie don't you when you go on about this type of thing but it's keep going keep going it's exactly it's hard not to i like it how you're just sitting back you've like you've you've lit the you've lit the fuse and you're like oh yeah let him let him go look at his face he's getting redder he's expanding yeah mate it's just oh i do think i know i'm not going to say i do think we'll be all right i don't know i really don't know but i've i just i still have to i have to Jimmy I have to hold on to to the hope that that we can you know we can somehow by hook or by crook get out of this because I can't really face Spurs being in the championship I don't I'm not somebody that really is going to bright side it I hate the idea of it on a really lame level I hate the idea of us losing our ever-present Premier League status as well I think that's something that we can be quite proud of and you know always have quite enjoyed you know i don't really care that villa went down and they're coming back and they're doing all right see also newcastle i just you know i think they're bobbins compared to us if i'm brutally honest with you so i don't i don't want spurs to go down um and i'm not ready to talk about the idea of spurs being in the EFL yet.

27:01Jack:So let's answer some questions. We've had, who is the priest? Says, in all seriousness, which players do you think are up for this relegation fight? By my eye test, it looks like only Gray and Danso. The rest have checked out. Did you, I mean, I'm sure you saw Mickey Van Der Ven's comments the other day, mate. Did they, and you know, there's been a lot back and forth about what he actually said and how the quotes have been misappropriated, but I don't really think they were misappropriated that much. He's essentially said that he's finding it really hard and he's not really coping very well with all of this.

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29:11James Regal:Well, here's the thing, right? There's a lot of shows of caring. You know, Porro throwing his arms around and Van der Ven with his stink face and whatnot. Like, I don't believe for a second that this squad of professional footballers who play for a club like Tottenham Hotspur are going into work every day and going into games being like, oh, my God, we're fucked. But Mickey's feeling how the fans are feeling. It's just like, it doesn't seem to matter what we do or what we try. You know, the fans want us to put our bodies on the line. They want us to show we're trying. So we're going to be aggressive.

29:47James Regal:We're going to snap into tackles. Oh, I've just been sent off. You know, it's like every time they try and assert themselves on the game, they're doing it in this sort of uncontrolled way, which has led to us getting tons. And we are being refed differently. I totally, that's one thing I agree with. I think referees treat us differently for some reason. That's a whole other point. But, you know, so I can understand when he says like, he's exasperated. He's like, you know, they are in a lot of money, but in order to reach that level, they do have to sacrifice a lot. You know, a lot of the lives, things that we do for fun that we take for granted.

30:23James Regal:They're locked in. They're in training all the time. You know, they're probably hurt at this point in the season. Their bodies are hurting. And then above them, you know, there's no direction. They don't trust their manager. They don't trust their medical teams. so i can i can understand his his exasperation completely so i don't i don't think it's like they lack and if it's like lacking fight i just i just don't think they know what to do and there's no one there to help them you know it's a bit like like it's really it's hard it's hard to compare like what footballers do to what you know what any of us normies do for a living right but i just keep thinking like as when i when i when i started doing comedy someone gave me some really good advice that was it was play the room you have not the room you want right so say you've written you know five minutes of jokes you're like oh i think these are really funny this is going to work you get out of there for some reason either the energy's off or the jokes aren't working like you're going to stand up there and just tell the same jokes and bomb or is your job to just be is your job is to be funny so you have to adapt you have to go with what's in the room listen to me talking about comedy and for all being the same thing it's to already hear my voice it's pathetic no no but i know what you mean like no you're you're the man

31:34Jack:in the arena if you like that's you know you you do have a i can't imagine i genuinely i can't imagine what it's like to stand up on on stage and do stand up the idea of it fills me with

31:44James Regal:all manner of cortisol right so it's like you know you're out there and no one watching a comedy show wants you to fail because they want to have a good night and that you know the audience you know the top of the fans let's say let's put them together in this little scenario but you can't what i feel like what we're doing at the moment is we're going out there with with these tactics or whatever the manager has decided of course there's another team in play so they also have tactics they're nullifying us and we've just lost that ability to play the room we're letting the room play us that's what i see when they go out there you know it's just like you know all right okay this formation whatever but in the end of the day i'm a really good footballer i'm an elite level footballer i know how to trap a ball i know how to pass a ball i know how to dribble i know how to defend but they've just it's in their heads now where like those fundamentals have seemed to have completely lost them and they're getting yeah it's it it feels like there's been a a level of like you