Bloody Marinakis

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1:30Phil, is there like a German word or phrase for the duality of, say, still being contented and happy, buzzing even, about your side winning a major European trophy just a mere few weeks ago? but simultaneously being wracked with the crippling sort of anxiety of watching us slip into irrelevance with another meek transfer window nottingham forest owner maranakis i've forgotten his first name compounding that misery even further by swiping morgan gibbs white away from us is is there a german term for that do you know i don't think there's a german term but there's probably a Japanese term because that's more like it's more of a sort of a romanticism I mean I don't know if Germans know about anxiety do they?

2:25I mean that's a sweeping statement but it's less German isn't it because that's more functional but yeah I take your point it's just it's a funny old seesaw at the moment isn't it? I think Chaz and Dave had a word for it didn't they? Yeah they did They did I mean I'm not going to pretend mate, I'm not going to pretend otherwise, I'm rattled about the Morgan Gibbs-White thing I've got to say Same, it's really sort of got to me especially that video yesterday and sort of all the comments again, it's just all we seem to ever achieve apart from being European champions is that we just collect rivals all the time and I just can't be arsed to have another one, you know again it's just it feels like it's always us and it feels like it's um yeah as we were talking yesterday right I mean these situations pop up it seems because we're always trying to still do a deal we're always trying to kind of get one over on someone we're always trying to kind of not necessarily play you know we play by the rules but we kind of circumvent certain bits just to say that we've won.

3:41Ironically, not on the pitch that much, but we're just now in a situation where we're, again, sort of the butt of the joke. Even though all we did was trigger a player's release clause that clubs do all the time, less so in England because they're less relevant, but when they do, it just seems to be, you know, you match the price and then you sign them. And somehow, yeah, And somehow we're the full guy again. It's really, as you say, it did kind of rattle me this weekend as well. I mean, I've got the sense that it was kind of falling apart, the fact that there was just deathly silence and, you know, Maranakis doing what he does or seems to do.

4:26Just really, yeah, really kind of disappointing, isn't it? And, you know, seeing Morgan Gibbs-White just being like, oh, cheers, boss, like he saved him from something, like coming to Spurs is such a terrible, you know, foregone conclusion for him that he had no power to stop it. I mean, let's not forget, he agreed to the contract we offered him and everything. So, you know, it's not like he wasn't culpable in whatever's gone on. But yeah, now it's just kind of been spun to it. It's like Spurs are this kind of nefarious figure in the shadows trying to poach legends from clubs that don't want to leave, which, you know, they've been trying to get him to sign a new contract for ages as well.

5:05So, yeah, really disappointing as well. all underpinned by the fact that I really like him as a player. Yeah, I mean, that's just sort of the balloon that's been burst really because I heard the arguments at the time and I do accept them to a degree that he wasn't the most pressing profile of player for us to sign this summer. We're spending£60 million on another attacking midfielder when we've arguably already got James Madison that does a similar thing, Dejan Kulusevsky that can do a similar thing, and then, say, a plethora of other players that can at least double up in a similar sort of way to doing what Morgan Gibbs-White can do.

5:47There's even some overlap with, say, like Lukas Bergwahl and him. But at the same time, he was a player that carried with him not only a certain, like, profile. I do think he was one of the more sort of, and he is still one of the more promising English talents outside of, say, like the elite, if you like. I think his ceiling is probably pretty high as well, if he's in the right circumstances and everything. And it was the nature of the deal. It was the nature of the business. The fact we'd got Kudus done and then Morgan Gibbs-White was coming in. To me, it went over the top of, say, the more rational concerns about the nature of the deal.

6:31The where does he play? Who do we fit? it was more like a, it doesn't really matter at this moment in time. This is a statement of intent. Finally, finally from Spurs. Finally, we're going out, we're acting decisively, we're getting it done. And of course, that was too good to be true, wasn't it? You know, and that, I think that's, that's the thing that's so gutting about this is that now it's starting to feel like, and this is where I'm at with it, mate, because I am seeing people be like, well, you can't really blame Levy for this. Maranakis is a tyrant. And I mean, just look, look at the state of that.

7:09Look at it. Like that video is ridiculous. It's ridiculous. It's like a hostage video. Like it's, it's, it's, it's one of the most insane things I've seen in football for a long time. It's bizarre. It's absolutely bizarre. Yeah. It's all ego, isn't it? It's all ego. And the fact that they did it on the side of the pitch as well is just tin pot. Yeah. um you know it's like like everyone's saying it's like the whole sort of jab having princess leia like alongside him kind of thing you know it's it's it's it's yeah it's it's preposterous and i understand that like you know maranakis is a let's not say anything that's gonna you know be held up in court or anything but he's he's a let's say he's got a background that is questionable like people question his fit and proper person credentials let's put it that way at least and so that's obviously leading to speculation as to how he's managed to get Gibbs White to stay and look I doubt it I don't know who knows I don't know it's it's not our concern anymore he signed a contract he's staying at Nottingham Forest and that's that I get that you kind of you can't blame levy for that fine what i can blame levy for though mike or vin i whoever's in charge of this stuff now after all it's the fact that okay we've had this 60 million pounds so we were prepared to spend 60 million pounds up front to get morgan gibbs white the deals look dead for two weeks now two or three weeks now right we've done nothing else in that time nothing else so the the problem for me is alluding to your point there at the top is that this is starting to feel like there wasn't really any plan here other than oh so i got some itk that we can get morgan gibbs white for about 60 million pounds stats and all this like the way in which we profile players has valued him at about 70 odd million pounds we can get him for 60 he's still young maybe we can sell him on great let's have a go let's opportunistically have a go at that and and thus to me that becomes less of a statement of intent it's less of a it's less of a signal that Spurs are finally waking up we finally want to do something we finally want to go for it and it's just again another case of like with Richarlison we saw an opportunity there for a promising player at a let's be let's be real at a price probably below market value for that player we know that he's not going to be asking for you know this it's a talk of like why don't we have a bid for we're not going to have a bid for isak because he wants 250 grand a week at newcastle as it is that's why he's asking to leave newcastle morgan gibbs white we could have probably had on 100 grand a week or something like that and it's just it's it's that it is that and i am just i'm i'm getting this bit out of my system because i don't think it's all doom and gloom i don't think the season's all over i'm looking forward to thomas frank i'm looking forward to seeing what he can do with the players already at his disposal it's again though just that feeling isn't it that a leopard never changes its spots however we configure the back room however we whoever we bring in whatever director of football whatever whatever Vinay Venkatesham is I can't remember a CEO or do you know what I mean this person is going to come in and we're going to do things differently and in a business sense we still operate in the same way and it's just it's just frustrating and it's kind of disheartening purely in the sense purely in the sense to me it's disheartening in the sense that we they're telling us again what they are we're a club that wants to try and get into the top four by underpaying for that privilege of getting into champions league football by competing with sides who pay more in wages who pay more in transfer fees so we can look like canny operators again but really despite what he said in that video of we want to win the league we want to win the champions league they don't they don't and the way and that is shifted into stark contrast by the way in which chelsea let's discount them manchester city let's discount them but let's look at the way that Liverpool and Arsenal have both spent money this this summer and these these are two clubs with comparable turnover to Tottenham I know they've had Champions League football for the past few years Liverpool won the Premier League and didn't spend any money for a couple years I get that I get that there are mitigating factors here but again it's it's it's like an optics thing isn't it as much as it is a practical a tangible thing yeah it is and you know i suppose a lot of this kind of frustration is based on let's be honest the kind of rumors but you know widely reported and fact-checked sort of rumors by reputable journalists that we had this kind of massive influx of cash suddenly and then which was kind of evidenced by kudus and then morgan gibbs white bang bang straight up one after another um so we're feeling up from that and we've been very positive about that and then as you say it's then the Morgan Gibbs White saga, which coincided with just silence, silence from the club.

12:36And I don't expect them to be kind of talking about kind of legal proceedings and stuff. But again, there's just been a kind of dearth of anything that we can hang our hat on. No suggestion, we're kind of moving forward. And again, like, so we have that over the weekend with Morgan Gibbs White. And again, Maranakis is taking shots at us for his own benefit, fine, you know, whatever. And then we go on our Hong Kong tour with a squad that isn't finished. You know, we've just kind of wasted the time where I think that most of us accept that these kind of pre-season tours are part and parcel of football now.

13:13But so, you know, so if it's going to have to happen, at least get some of your ducks in a row beforehand. And it just feels like we've kind of twiddled our thumbs and waited something out that wasn't going to go our way. and we're just now playing catch-up again and we're playing catch-up with a tip from a team that finished in 17th and I think it's just, yeah, it's not all doom and gloom at all and I think, you know, a lot of it is that there has been a kind of a clean slate or a kind of a line drawn under last season and just going with Thomas Frank and what he kind of wants to do and he needs to kind of assess the squad and stuff but, yeah, it just doesn't add up again, does it?

13:50And again, like you say, how many times do we have to be told that we're a club that just doesn't kind of take it seriously. Because clubs, you know, you might disagree that spent splashing loads of, you know, hundreds of millions of pounds every transfer window is the right way of doing it. But that's kind of what you need to do to succeed. It's kind of football, isn't it now? Yeah, that's it. The lines have been drawn, haven't they, by the likes of City, Chelsea and that. And that's just what it is. And if you don't want to partake in that side of things, then don't kind of gaslight people into pretending that you do so you can charge them loads of season tickets.

14:34Because that's kind of what I default back to.

14:39It's kind of mad, isn't it? It's kind of mad that... And I know, I get it. Like, again, I get that these are deals that are financed in different ways and it's not coming from the same pot. But as we always say, Phil, like Occam's razor, a certain amount of money comes into this football club through various different means. And a certain money comes out of that football club, generally speaking, in the form of infrastructure, as opposed to players on the pitch competing for trophies. Because it's all very well and good for us to kind of and I do like this to a degree, but to point at us and say, look at the Emirates, look at the infrastructure around it.

15:29For years, you've made fun of us, but actually the Emirates is the crap stadium now, and you can't get any concerts there, and you don't get any sort of, you know, fights there and stuff like that because we inhale all that now. But they're the ones that are out there. They've just signed, you know, one of the most exciting strikers in Europe to maybe be the finishing piece to their puzzle. I don't think he will be. Neither do I for what it's worth. Yeah, exactly for what it's worth. But it's just the optics around both clubs are just remarkably different. And look, you know, it is what it is.

16:06It's easy to get kind of wound into this stuff. But it does more often than not just remind me of the fact why I don't have a season ticket. and I don't want the season ticket and I don't want to pay into that. And fair enough to anybody that does, I understand that. I'm not making some kind of superior, like a point of superiority or anything like that. I'm just saying, for me, I've made the decision that I don't want to keep paying into that anymore because I don't like it. I don't like the feeling that it gives me to know that I'm paying into an owner that doesn't really care about trying to win stuff, really.

16:49You know? But it's what it is, mate. I am looking forward to Thomas Frank. I am looking forward to what we can do under him. And really, do I think us not having Morgan Gibbs-White in this side is kind of the be-all and end-all? No, I don't, really. I think it would have been great. I think he is a really exciting player. I think he could have... elevated us in a certain degree to a certain degree but I don't think that adding Morgan Gibbs White to this side equally would have made us a title challenging side so I probably would have still had much of the same concerns about Arsenal and Liverpool and all that type of thing that I have anyway you know yeah and that's the kind of perspective I'm trying to give myself you know yeah I mean I think for me yeah you're right like him as an individual might not have you know, moved the dial that much.

17:43But I think for me, it was a statement of intent that the reason, how you do cope with modern football and, you know, the kind of the number of games you need to play, you need options. And it just feels like we're again, just leaving things too light. And it just means that we're likely going to repeat the same cycle of getting to Christmas when everything starts to hit, when all the cup competitions start to hit and we'll just fall apart and fall off and that's that's just really frustrating because we're not doing what we need to do in terms of getting the squad into a place that can compete you know that's what they said that's what they said in that video right that they they want to compete on all fronts it's like that's kind of why you sacked Ange you know and I think you know Ange wasn't sacked just because he threw the league to win the Europa League he was sacked because he wasn't very good you can't then say the reason we've sacked him is because we want to compete on all fronts and not provide the next guy the tools to do so.

18:45And I don't think we have as yet. There's still time left at the end of the transfer window. But again, just bleed into August when our squad won't be settled. It's just frustrating. That's what it is. It's just frustrating. As you say, back to your point as well. Again, they're just telling us who they are. What do you, let's move it on mate, because I can very easily get caught in like a ranting cycle on this. We played two games on Saturday, back-to-back football matches. What did you make of all that? From the off, what did you make of the idea of us playing two kind of decent 11s? yeah um i saw it as a positive actually i wasn't you know i didn't actually get to see much of the games bits and pieces um but the fact that thomas frank is looking for opportunities to and you know the the kind of the main point that he was saying is we need to get minutes in their legs so that's that's that's that's that's the aim play two games some players play 75 minutes here and some players play 75 minutes in in the second game that's all that really matters it It doesn't really matter about the, yeah, you know, it'd be good to kind of win both games, of course, because that's another positive in terms of things working well.

20:10But the intention was these are just, these are friendlies. These are practice matches. You know, the fact, just the fact that they're kind of, again, that we are asked to pay to see them on Spurs play kind of elevates what they actually are. And again, that's just a club trying to kind of rinse us for a few more pounds here and there. but at the end of the day it is just it is just a match it's a match fitness thing so you know as much as I'm saying I'm sort of disappointed about things how things are feeling at the moment that's not part of it I don't I don't really think that that's that's a problem I think that that's just again again it was encouraging that Thomas Frank was like well we can squeeze another game in here so let's do it because that that's good for us before we go that that's doing the extra work which I think you know compared to previous managers certainly the last one it seemed to be the bare minimum where Frank is trying to maximise these things.

21:02And I think that's a definite positive, right? Yeah, I agree with you. I mean, do you have any... Do you have any... This is one place where I might have a bit of a superiority complex, but do you have any concerns whatsoever about the results of these games? Because rather predictably, Twitter was losing its arse after, you know, a couple of draws. I think we drew against... Yeah, we drew 2-2 with Wickham, 0-0 with Luton. And we, did we draw with Reading the other day as well? Or did we beat them in the end? No, we beat them, didn't we? See, I can't even remember. Yeah, we did beat Reading. But still, like, because I think, who is it?

21:41Somebody, Portsmouth, beat Reading by a bigger margin. So that was it. So people wound up about that. And like you said, they're training games, aren't they? I couldn't, I'll be honest. on a sort of petty level, Arsenal on Thursday, I won't like seeing us get battered by them. But at the same time, it doesn't matter. Even that one doesn't matter. It shouldn't be a pre-season game, but we know why it is. And it's not going to be a yardstick, is it? Because it's come too soon in kind of pre-season. I know I'm talking about like, all right, you know, we've played a few sort of games, but it's usually the last two games, you know, certainly used to be kind of the game before we started the season where you allowed yourself to get excited, put it that way, because the players are in more of a match-to-match fitness.

22:32Again, as much as a lot is being made about this being the first North London derby on foreign soil, which negates the fact that, therefore, it is a North London derby because it's not. It's not going to be the same intensity. Both teams should be focusing on what things they need to work on, i.e. their fitness, i.e. their tactical things, i.e. their, you know, we'll spend this part of the game just defending just to kind of test out some things. That's what happens. It's not a game of football in the kind of normal sense. So, yeah, I mean, as much as, you know, you don't want to see Arsenal beat us or anything.

23:09But, you know, we played them pre-season a few years ago. And again, I can't even remember what the result was because it just didn't matter. Did we draw? Did we draw? Yeah, maybe. I can't remember. Exactly. but it doesn't matter and you can't you can't let it matter as much as you know that feels like a defeatist attitude you just have to kind of wind your neck in a bit because it is pre-season and it's a you know an exhibition tour in a different country for financial reasons yes you know squad building you know in terms of the camaraderie and all that it is is useful in these trips away because you you know you're focused as a group together but other than that nothing really matters.

23:50And again, you and I remember certainly that there were periods of pre-seasons, the famous one when we smashed up Roma 5-0. Everyone was like, oh my God, we're amazing. And this is an often used example as to why pre-season doesn't really matter because that was our two points per eight game season, wasn't it? Where we were just terrible. So, you know, it's just there's plenty in the world to be getting frustrated about. Maranakis, one of them. but not drawing 0-0 against Luton in a game that will never, ever be referenced again. Again, I didn't watch it, so I don't have any sort of insight into if there was any concerning things that people were seeing there tactically or otherwise.

24:32So again, fitness, that's the name of the game at the moment. We actually beat Arsenal in the pre-season friendly last time. The fact that we didn't even know that shows how little it matters, right? Do you know what's pathetic there, mate? When I saw that, when I actually just Googled it and I saw that, I was like, get in there. Go on.

24:56It's true. I mean, I think the only thing that bothers me about it is that you know what that club is like. You know how Arteta will still be getting them to come onto the pitch, to kick lumps out of us, to show us who's boss in North London. You know what their whole social media kind of thing will be around it. They'll probably, do you reckon they'll start Jacarese or something like that? let him have a few goals against Tottenham. Do you know what I mean? Like, make us look silly, all that type of thing. To me, the only thing about this one, and this is why this is such a lose-lose fixture, is that if you do beat them, you forget about it in a few years' time, as evidenced here today.

25:40If you lose to it, it just, in at least in the micro sense, I look at this and I just think that's annoying because if say that if their new star signing striker does score a couple of goals, it compounds the fact that, yeah, you know, we haven't signed anybody. That's what happens when you go out and sign somebody and it gets head spinning again a bit, doesn't it? And it doesn't matter really. It's a preseason friendly. It's a disgrace that it's happening. But that's modern football. We've all opted into it. None of us have opted out of it. we all moan modern football is this and that yet we all know that but we're all still here aren't we suckling from the teat so you know like sharing the oats aren't we sharing the oats um yeah but put it this way i mean if i could choose i prefer that we weren't playing in pre-season just because i think it's a weird sort of thing to do and again it's just commercialization and all those kind of grotty things um yeah when is it thursday i think it's thursday midday or something isn't it so So he'll probably be watching it.

26:43We'll certainly have it on in the background. But yeah, I mean, yeah. It's just... But what if he's terrible as well? I mean, that'd be class, wouldn't it? Yeah. What if Voskowicz snaps him in half? That's it. What if he does an ACL or something? Yeah. You know? Not that I'd ever wish Harman anybody. No, because no football fans ever should wish another player on their opposing rival team to have a career-ending injury or anything like that. Violent, disgusting. It's only the fans of the clubs that I want to make a point about that do that type of thing. Not us. We're morally, ethically everything-ly superior to all those clubs that do that type of thing.

27:33I like to think we are in some regards to Arsenal, but let's not go into that now, shall we?

27:42Newcastle as well coming up which kind of weird but less less egregious isn't it um not so bothered about that buying and then the Super Cup I mean a bit of time bit of time before we need to talk about the Super Cup but all the stuff about like pre-season things going it goes out the window if we win the Super Cup that's just that that is that's us that's us going for the league this year you know doesn't matter Levy's done it again the the bald maestro as uh he's played the long game now i don't know mate i mean do you how important do you think it is that we sign players i guess in a i'm trying to separate this into how how important do you think it is that we sign players as in so we don't finish 17th again and i'm not saying that we will with this set of players i don't think we should i think they underperformed but still how important do you think it is that we sign more players to give us a better chance of success on the football pitch and how important do you think it is that we sign players just to give us a bit of a lift and to maybe give some of the existing players a bit of a buzz that it feels like the club are trying to achieve something if you get what I mean um well I think and again it kind of goes back to the Morgan Gibbs White um discussion about whether There is space for him in the team.

29:02Again, it's about just bolstering, bolster, bolster, bolster, get the squad in a better position. So there's competitiveness in the squad, which didn't seem to be the case last season. You know, I know there was half of them were out injured, but there were certain people that would just walk into the team, which I don't think is ever good. So I think it's the latter. But also, you know, I've kind of just forgotten about the Super Cup just in regards to this conversation, the points we were making before about signings. But that's a massive opportunity for us. that's a huge opportunity for us Daniel Levy was saying he wants to win why haven't you done the business that we need to do before this tour to put us in a better place to win that Super Cup why has it just been left to kind of rot and all we do at the end of the summer when we can get some deals gone you know I think the Super Cup can be if we lose it then it doesn't matter obviously it's a Tim Pot friendly Community Shield trophy But if we win it, then that's huge for us.

30:01Because it's not just, you know, it's similar to the Lionesses won yesterday, obviously. Winning one Euros is, oh, wow, what a huge achievement. Winning two is legacy. And I know that's overselling the point about Spurs winning Europa League. But if you follow up that Europa League immediately with a Super Cup win, which is another trophy another one that you can put on that little infographic that's huge for us and then a league cup or an fa cup this season do you know what I mean then suddenly yeah suddenly we've won three trophies and you know oh one of them was only probably one of the hardest trophies to win the super cup in a way right because you've got to win your own tournament especially as Europa League winnings you've got to win the Europa League then beat the best team in Europe it's the hardest trophy to win in some regard, certainly for the Europa League winning team anyway.

30:57So, yes, huge. But again, we just don't want to sort of drag it back to this kind of point. But I do think the kind of general feeling is real just frustration that one, this is again, sorry to kind of go back over it. But again, there is real frustration in the fan base at the moment, at this very moment. I think it's OK to kind of reflect that, right? Yeah, there's this, I don't know if you've ever read The Bell Jar by Sylvia Plath. It's one of the most miserable books I've ever read, actually. I found it really depressing, like genuinely super depressing. But there's this analogy that she weaves in there about like, essentially indecision, that you can look up at a fruit tree and think, oh, I want to pick that apple.

31:46I can't remember if it's plums or apples or something, but she says she wants to pick that one piece of fruit and then looks over to one side and there's another juicy piece of fruit and then oh there's another juicy piece of fruit over there and she doesn't really kind of want to make the decision to take any of them because if she takes one then the other one might be nicer and slowly she just sits under this tree as all of the fruit rots above above her and then is left with nothing and there is that kind of thing with spurs to a degree i find sometimes this sort of this level of inaction under Levy is it's always about like tomorrow will be it's mañana, mañana, domani, like tomorrow we'll be in a better place, we'll be in a better place to challenge if we do these things but right now like you say right now we're looking at a once in a generation thing for Spurs of competing, contesting the Super Cup, something that would be really really good to win or at least to not be embarrassed in right, something for us to step up and kind of have a go at and as you say it just feels like there's no impetus there there's no will to try and like oh actually go on let's let's make sure we're in a good position for that let's get a couple of transfers in over the line and really take it to PSG and then as you say use that momentum in going into this new season and really aim for something else and try and try and keep this win streak going it just it's always just filed under oh that was nice oh we won a Europa League last year and that was nice we'll live off that for another decade it does just feel that way doesn't it it does yeah because the evidence tells us that right did Daniel Levy read the bell jar and misunderstand what that metaphor was supposed to mean he's like no that's what I do yeah I do that I sit on I wait for everything to rot no mate you're supposed to pick one fruit um caught offside that reputable source of information um they say that we're after alexander mitrovich um from al-halal uh he's 30 years old is that the type of signing that you know fills you with glee phil does that does that make you look forward to the season no

34:15yeah we talked about it yesterday didn't we and the fact that it was from court offside gave me a lot of hope that it was just nonsense

34:26but again oh there's a deal to be done he scored how many goals in the would he be better I'm already trying to convince myself that when he does sign it's a good idea but he scored goals in the Premier League would he be better than nothing would he be better than Richarlison in that role which I think is what you'd be looking at right well that's it because it surely spells the end of Richarlison doesn't it I think the end of Richarlison is maybe the dyes being cast on that one anyway I'm not really sure why maybe we've just sensed that we can maybe get a bit of value for him now before he And that appreciates, which is kind of a shame.

35:13I'm torn on it because I criticise Richarlison a lot. My main disappointment is his sort of consistency, his lack of availability. But when you look at the Europa League final, for example, his work rate, his ability to hold up the ball, to kind of draw possession in the final third was a difference maker for us in that Europa League final, really. Yeah, definitely. And there was that stat going around, wasn't there, that his goals to minute ratio was like fourth or fifth best in the league or something, wasn't it? It's mad at, isn't it? But then you think about that a bit further and you think, well, that's skewed a bit because, you know, he doesn't start or he can't start.