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Rule The Roost - Episode Summary
Episode Title
Can We Trust This Squad? | Spurs 1-4 Arsenal, Individual Failings & The Relegation Dogfight
Episode Overview In this episode of the *Rule The Roost* podcast, Jack is joined by Con to discuss the aftermath of Tottenham Hotspur's disappointing 1-4 defeat to Arsenal in the North London Derby. The mood is somber as they delve into the team's current state, the implications of their performance, and the looming threat of relegation.
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Key Themes and Discussions
- Frustration with the Team's Performance
- Both hosts express anger and frustration over the loss, emphasizing how disappointing it is given the context of a fierce rivalry.
- Discussion revolves around the lack of fight and poor individual performances, particularly noting how the team seemed to lose composure after a disallowed goal.
- Positives Amidst the Negatives
- They attempt to identify any positives from the match, noting that the first half showed some spirit.
- The hosts highlight the importance of Kolawani, suggesting that a strong striker presence could help improve the team's fortunes if he continues to perform well.
- Concerns About Relegation
- The hosts discuss the harsh reality of finding themselves entrenched in a relegation battle.
- They analyze the competition, indicating that the team's poor performance is compounded by tougher upcoming fixtures against teams like Liverpool and Chelsea.
- Individual Failings and Squad Trust
- A significant portion of the discussion focuses on whether the current squad can be trusted to fight against relegation.
- Notable players like Mickey van der Ven are critiqued for their lack of leadership and effort during crucial moments in games.
- The Impact of Injuries
- The injury crisis is emphasized as a key factor affecting the team’s performance, noting that the squad is missing several key players.
- Jack and Con argue that this context should be central to any discussion about the team's struggles.
- Management and Future Prospects
- The hosts discuss the managerial situation and express hope that Igor Tudor, the new manager, can motivate the team to avoid relegation.
- They speculate on the potential need for a significant overhaul of the squad if relegation occurs, referencing the historical failures of the club's management.
- Cultural and Psychological Factors
- The idea that the club's identity and culture have deteriorated over time is explored, pinpointing issues of motivation and commitment among players.
- They reflect on how the psychological impact of past near-successes has led to a sense of resignation within the club.
- Fan Sentiment and Future Outlook
- The emotional toll on fans and their expectations is discussed, including the implications of relegation on season ticket sales and club loyalty.
- The hosts end with a sense of uncertainty about the future, questioning whether the club can turn around its fortunes in the remaining matches.
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Conclusion The podcast captures a moment of despair and introspection for Tottenham Hotspur fans, inviting listeners to share in the frustration while navigating the complex issues facing the club. As they analyze past mistakes and current challenges, Jack and Con provide a candid reflection on the bleak state of affairs and the hope that remains for a turnaround in the coming matches.
Key Takeaways
- The team is facing a crisis of confidence and performance amid a relegation battle.
- Injuries significantly impact the squad's ability to compete effectively.
- Concerns about individual player commitment and leadership are prevalent.
- The emotional and psychological aspects of supporting Spurs are deeply interwoven with their current plight.
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*Note: The podcast is available for listeners who enjoy a mix of serious football discourse and emotional reflection on the state of Tottenham Hotspur.*
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOPost-Match Reactions
1:50 to 5:48
The hosts share their frustrations and insights following the loss to Arsenal.
“And I just realized that I'd been talking at her about the game for about half an hour and I could sort of see her like eyeing up, you know, the window to jump out of sort of things.”
Player Performances and Team Spirit
5:48 to 11:32
Discussion on player performance and the lack of fight shown during the game.
“I mean, it was a softest shite decision, wasn't it?”
Management and Future Prospects
11:32 to 14:00
Exploration of managerial challenges and the team's future outlook amidst struggles.
“I know people say well you can't really blame him but as a fan I'm still annoyed about it You can blame him.”
The Need for a Motivator
14:00 to 15:00
Discussing the pressing need for effective motivation within the squad.
Blame Game: Players vs Management
15:00 to 16:00
Examining the shared responsibility between players and management for the team's struggles.
“You know, some people blame Ange and all this.”
Injury Crisis Context
16:00 to 17:00
Analyzing the impact of the injury crisis on Tottenham's performance and prospects.
“And there's that bit of me that wonders, like, do you think there's, look, definitely Enoch have to take some of the blame for this, right?”
The Emotional Toll on the Club
17:00 to 18:00
How past near successes have affected the current mentality of the club and fans.
“the injury situation at the club is unbelievable I think all the I think every conversation about Tottenham and how poor they are at the minute has to be in the context of that because I don't think...”
Comparing Club Standards
18:00 to 19:00
Contrasting Tottenham's expectations with those of other clubs in similar scenarios.
“I know we didn't have a choice, but I mean, Christ.”
Relegation Concerns and Fixtures
23:20 to 26:20
Discussing concerns over relegation and upcoming crucial fixtures for the team.
“I think the only things keeping us up will be West Ham and Forrest's fixtures and mainly West Ham's fixtures.”
Future of the Squad and Management
26:20 to 28:00
Exploring the implications of relegation on player retention and future management.
“By then, for the last four or five games, we can't, you know, we can't wait until everyone's back.”
Show all 21 chapters
Promises of Investment Amidst Relegation Fears
28:00 to 29:10
Exploring the potential squad overhaul if Spurs remain in the Premier League.
“But while the Guardian did do a report today that someone close to the Lewis family saying that in the summer, If we stay up, we will be smashing our wage structure and overhauling the squad, which is good.”
The Need for Pochettino's Return
29:10 to 30:40
Discussing the urgency for Pochettino's leadership during a critical time for Spurs.
The Consequences of Relegation
30:40 to 32:50
Analyzing the impact of potential relegation on key players and the club's future.
“But I can't imagine Xavi Siemens will want to stay in the championship.”
Spurs' Struggles Against Arsenal
32:50 to 34:25
Reflecting on Spurs' recent poor performances against Arsenal and its implications.
“I mean, this is all over the place, but I don't see a world in which Spurs going down is a good thing.”
The Dark Timeline of Relegation
34:25 to 35:59
Discussing the worst-case scenario where Spurs are relegated while Arsenal triumphs.
The Chaos Behind Spurs' Management
35:59 to 37:33
Examining the internal turmoil and mismanagement at Spurs that led to the current situation.
“That's the only reason that was as low as we got.”
Player Performances and Future Prospects
37:33 to 42:00
Analyzing individual player performances and their potential impact on the team's future.
“Miggie Delaney's piece, and I'm sure there's been plenty of others, has just been shocking about the Frank era and the way things have been sort of set up behind the scenes.”
Player Motivations and Individual Performances
42:00 to 43:32
Exploration of player motivations, focusing on injuries and individual performances.
“Search Late Breaking F1 Podcast and listen wherever you get your podcasts.”
Injury Concerns and Communication Issues
43:36 to 55:06
Discussion of injury updates, communication from the club, and broader implications.
“I assume his knee got absolutely smashed to bits.”
Managerial Changes and Future Prospects
55:06 to 56:01
Analyzing the impact of managerial changes and assessing the club's future.
“There hasn't been a happy hunting ground, has it, recently?”
Motivating Teams for Success
56:01 to 56:31
Discussion on a coach's ability to motivate teams and achieve goals.
Transcript
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1:36Jack:Hello everybody, welcome back to Rule the Roots Podcasts. Mr. Conor Mummery you said to me I'm angry this week Jack I'll do a pod if you want me to and I was like yeah definitely I want that I don't just want to be the only angry one on here tell me why you're angry other than obviously the fact we got battered by Arsenal
1:58Con:well I text you saying that about an hour after the game when I was sat in sat in the pub with my better half, better half, who says that? Gammons. Yeah, exactly. Well, that's why I said it. And I just realized that I'd been talking at her about the game for about half an hour and I could sort of see her like eyeing up, you know, the window to jump out of sort of things. I thought I'll give her a bit of relief, not in that way. I thought I'll let her off here and I'll text Jack and I'll say, I think this would probably be better on Raw The Roots podcast instead of monologuing a Newcastle fan who couldn't really give less of a shit.
2:52Jack:Oh, Newcastle, we're good now.
2:53Con:Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
2:55Jack:Someone's got a bit of money. Oh, tell us about getting relegated. Do you know what I mean? You're not going to get any sympathy, are you, on that one?
3:02Con:No, all I'm getting from them is, oh, yeah, but it's quite fun. we're not you mate
3:09Jack:it's not going to be fun
3:10Con:we're not Newcastle we're not Aston Villa we don't do this nonsense well we might
3:16Jack:let's look let's let's do the game first and then we can talk about the big scary thing in the room
3:22Con:just a heads up I don't know if you were aware Phil's just texting you've gone live on YouTube if you were meant to that's fine but just checking you meant to do that
3:30Jack:I didn't but there we go I don't know why it's done that
3:34Con:whatever if anyone wants to watch it they can do change maybe a few of the words you were planning on saying at some point
3:40Jack:can't edit out all those uh the naughty bits um no mate any positives from the game any positives whatsoever look i i we're trying to be you know it's a few days on right bit less emotional it's been said to me by a mutual acquaintance that you know we showed enough spirit in that game to suggest that we will stay up that they're the best team in europe the best team in the world the best team in the country whatever else we want to say they're the best at we showed enough in that one at least to suggest that we've got more than enough for a lot of the other teams that we're in this dogfight with do you see anything in that at all
4:34Con:the only thing I saw would be I thought the first half wasn't as awful as some of the stuff I've seen recently or this season in terms that I think in the first half we did seem quite up for it and I saw a sort of stat comparison of the first and second halves about you know competing for duels and second balls and stuff and that it was relatively even, a bit in Arsenal's favour in the first half, but that side of things was relatively even, then the second half it's dropped off the cliff. And the worry for me, yeah, was our reaction to, I'm sure we'll come on to this anyway, but Kola Mawani's disallowed goal.
5:16Con:I think we just sort of lost what we were trying to do after that and the heads dropped again and they reverted back to type. But yeah, I would say that and yeah, Kola Mawani in general being able to score in the Premier League. Obviously, we know that he's done really well under Tudor before, but that would obviously be huge for us because we haven't really got a goal scorer at the minute. That's it, really, in terms of positives, mate.
5:46Con:We lost 4-1 to Arsenal. What do you want me to say?
5:50Jack:Yeah, but that's it, isn't it? That's good. He should have had... I mean, it was a softest shite decision, wasn't it? Laughable. The second one.
6:02Con:Laughable. When you see it in the context of, obviously, it's the first thing that everyone pulled up after as well. Eketika and Romero, you know, which was a lot more of a shove than this. I mean, there wasn't even any forward momentum from Moana. He just had his hands out and Gabriel threw himself in the air. I mean, I've never seen Gabriel score a goal without two hands on someone's back. but apparently we're not allowed to do that So
6:32Jack:do you take anything from the fact that you said to me before we started recording this, have you seen the 2026 league table? I hadn't seen the 2026 league table Tottenham are bottom of it we're adrift at the bottom of it we got four points, West Ham have 11, Nottingham Forest have 9, just for some context. These sort of magical wins, these mythical wins that we're going to pick up from somewhere, where are we going to pick these up, mate? I mean, Fulham away on the weekend is suddenly such a terrifying prospect, isn't it? And who would have, you know, all due respect to them, when did you think you would hear yourself sort of, you know, saying that or even thinking that?
7:24Con:Yeah. I don't think our points will come from Fulham away or any of our away games really. Our away games are horrible. So we've got Fulham away, Liverpool away, Sunderland away, Villa away, Chelsea away and Wolves away. But I mean, they're showing a lot more than us now in terms of fight. The wind has to come at home. You know, Palace, Forest, Brighton, Leeds, Everton. we're going to have to win at least three of those. I think we probably need 40 points to be sure.
7:56Jack:But we just don't win games. No, exactly. The thing is, I'm not even trying to be negative. We've won seven games all season. We are the team that goes down. This is the thing. When you look at the Premier League down the years, it's the bobbins teams that win single figures games that go down. Yeah, right, we're not one of those that's only winning two or three games. But still, when you look at it relative to the other teams around us. I'm pretty sure Forrest have won more games than us, which is alarming, mate. You have four managers. But I say again, I haven't been saying this, and I've been saying this for a large part of the season.
8:36Jack:I'm not trying to be superlative about it. This is the worst I've ever seen Spurs in my lifetime. And some people do object to that. Some people say, no, those 90s teams are worse. those 19s teams had Sheridan and Klinsman. We don't have that player. We don't even have one of those players. I'm sorry.
8:55Con:To drive that home, the 90s comparison, because yeah, obviously that's the retort that you get when you say something like that. We've lost more North London derbies since April 2022 than we did in the 90s altogether. Like, you bang on about it and it's true. No matter how bad we were going back, however long we always put up a fight against that lot, especially at home. And obviously they have had their fair share of wins against us when we haven't been at our best, but never in the fashion of anything like I saw on Sunday. You know, a three-goal margin at home in the derby, 8-2 on aggregate this season against them.
9:41Con:No, this is the worst for me. I don't see it I was not the worst in the 70s since we last went down
9:48Jack:How are you feeling about the like on that because Phil and I were sat there like foaming at the mouth about the lack of fight for the second ball you know and it would that was just that was just abundantly clear throughout the entirety of that performance I didn't I didn't see this fight that people said really I think Mawani put in a decent enough performance capitalized I mean his first goal was brilliant that first goal was to be fair his second goal was exceptional as well and I think we've all known that he probably has that ability in him which has kind of led to the frustration with him and the sort of takes that people have had about him, myself included but we're talking about players like Mickey van der Ven who is clearly been on the PR drive to get out of the club he's had his sit down Sky Sports interview start of the season that that usually sort of is the you know is where things start we can we can talk about how good or not he is as a defender but he is a supreme athlete he is one of our better players and it feels like at times like this you want to look to your better players to dig you out of this and he in particular looks like one of the ones that couldn't care less and he's to me he's a real problem it's what do you do in that situation what do you do in a situation like this when the squad is threadbare and one of your best players clearly isn't arsed like it's it's an impossible situation for Tudor it's an impossible situation for Tottenham and it's just it's frustrating and I get it I know people say well you can't really blame him but as a fan I'm still annoyed about it
11:37Con:You can blame him. I mean, I'm sorry, he's as culpable as anyone for this. He's not, you know, I know he's one of our better players, but he's not an exception to this just because he's Mickey van der Ven. Yeah, and, you know, obviously love him for what he's done for us, you know, as with most of the Europa League lot, he's going to be a legend regardless. But I think with him, his body language is awful. and he was captain on Sunday as he often is when Romero's not around and obviously without Madison and yeah I think you need more from him even in that way in terms of you know not necessarily saying that he does need to play better they all do but just in terms of being more of a leader on the pitch and yeah even if it's something like trying to G up your teammates when things aren't going well I thought I think I think too much has been made of that video of Tudor sort of shouting at him and I don't think you can really see the full context of any of that but I don't think his body language looked great in that exchange either even if Tudor wasn't talking you know expressly to him um and we've had this before this season um I think you know he's he's mouthed off of fans before um obviously in reply to stuff that he's getting but the thing with the thing I really didn't like because him and Spence were frank in November after Chelsea.
13:04Con:I just feel that was such a bad look. Whether or not people said it got blown out of Portion at the time, I just think it... What are they doing? Just shake his hand and walk off? I just... Yeah, I don't like his body language, to be honest. I don't know if he's... I think they're all asked. I don't think he wants a relegation on his CV, a relegation with Tottenham on his CV. I don't think that's going to do his chances of getting a big move much good. I mean, I suppose people might think they're going to get him cheaper if we're relegated and we're going to be in desperate need of money. But I don't think any of those players want to get relegated with Tottenham.
13:45But we've just got to
13:47Con:hope. And I think it is to the strong point, the motivational side. Obviously, that's why he does so well in these situations because obviously you don't have the time. You don't have a pre-season to really implement the ideas on the on the tactical side i think he is supposed to be a very good motivator um and that's what we're going to need um between yeah between now and may because
14:10Jack:we still look in dire need of it i think tom barkley said that they had a big almighty ding dong after that one that he was tearing strips out of them i think ego tudor um i mean it's a tough it's a tough gig isn't it to be a to be a geezer that has to come in and whip these lot into shape it's the it's the supply teacher thing isn't it because they're all sort of thinking all right he's a big scary bloke but this is kind of what paul o 'kee said to me when i spoke to him is why do they have to listen to him other than if they've got a bit of professional pride and i
14:45Con:know this is a manual millions of pounds playing for tom and hosburgh he's their manager this is
14:51Jack:it mate like one of your heroes big sam allardyce i'm going to say barrage he said he said uh he said exactly that you know how can these look and look at themselves in the mirror when they're paid the amount that they are the facilities the stadium the exposure you get playing for a club the size of tottenham how can you not get up for that and you know i do feel like i do feel like there's a culture that has set in there somehow, some way or another. You know, some people blame Ange and all this. I, you know, as much as I like to dig him out every now and again, I think this is a rot that's set in over a long time now.
15:35Jack:An interesting thing is, you know, Tom Foynes pointed out to me, let me find out, I just want to get the exact numbers. he pointed out to me about Newcastle so he was referencing me talking about Newcastle being a warning for Spurs the Mike Ashley era and all that type of thing he said that the timelines match up somewhat in the respect that they had a league challenge in 96-97 then got relegated in 2008 I'm not very good at the quick maths but I'm assuming that that means that there's a similar amount of time since we, you know, 16, 17 or something like that. And there's that bit of me that wonders, like, do you think there's, look, definitely Enoch have to take some of the blame for this, right?
16:28Jack:They do. The footballing strategy is all off. I've gone on about this at length, pretty much every single podcast this season now, right? We know Enoch deserves some blame. We know Lange and Venkatesian probably deserve some blame for this the players deserve blame if you want to say that I mean we can't forget the the really really incredible injury situation at Spurs face like we do you know we do as much as we all like digging out all those people I've just mentioned there the injury situation at the club is unbelievable
17:07Con:I think all the I think every conversation about Tottenham and how poor they are at the minute has to be in the context of that because I don't think...
17:18Jack:Sky Sports left all that out, didn't they? That's what I mean.
17:21Con:I find that baffling how that's not at the forefront of the conversation, really. Or at least leading the conversation because I'm not saying we'd be pushing for top four or five or anything, but I don't think we'd be anywhere near here, near this situation if, you know, the injury crisis wasn't anywhere near as bad I don't think we'd be anywhere near here if we had, you know, a front line of Kulusevsky, Madison, Kudus, Solanke all season. I don't think we'd be in this situation at all. So I think everything we say has to be in the context of that. And, you know, even, you know, talking about the 2026 Premier League table, that sort of thing.
Read the full transcript
17:58Con:To a degree, Sunday, because look at that team we put out on Sunday. I know we didn't have a choice, but I mean, Christ. it's just absolute bobbins like I mean a back five of Gray Pelinha Dragasin Van der Ven Spence playing on his wrong side Saar and Gallagher in front of them like it's just yeah it's awful but I mean it's obviously I'd say we're probably missing being kind seven or eight starters I've never seen anything like this injury crisis the whole time I've been watching football I've never seen anything like it let alone two years in a row I know every team gets injuries I've never seen a team with eight or nine starters out I've never seen it
18:42Jack:The point I was going to sort of drive to as well with the Newcastle thing is I wonder if there's also just a sense of resignation that when you've gotten that close when you've gotten as close as we did to winning everything under Pochettino you know the emotional outlay and all that sort of thing that came with that for the fans, for the club everything I just sort of wonder if like the soul of the club everything just got a bit tired got quite jaded that everybody just do you know what I mean the ever the bridesmaid that we were just has taken its toll and we had Bilbao we can't forget Bilbao but maybe it just came a bit too late I don't know you know because when you sort of think about think about sort of like Arsenal's poor patches they've still won FA Cups Chelsea's poor patches Man United's past poor decade.
19:35Jack:Those two have still won basically everything. Man United have won everything but the big stuff. Chelsea have won everything, you know, and they do. They might have a couple of years of being a bit of a non-entity and then they'll come back and win a Champions League or a Premier League, you know, it's kind of how they operate. Whereas Spurs, it was years of just getting close, getting close, not doing it. Everyone talking about things being Spurs-y, everyone talking about like this curse over the club you know van der ven even spoke about it in that interview when i was gonna sign for spurs my mates were saying don't sign for that club they don't win anything right it's it's it's quite mental isn't it and you don't know how much this sort of baggage just weighs on the club um yeah have you ever heard a player say that about
20:22Con:villa or newcastle i know newcastle won the carabao cup fair playing but we seem to just be held to a completely different standard than most teams in the league in terms of yeah could you imagine what did Everton do
20:40Jack:an FA Cup in the 90s as well similar to us didn't they
20:42Con:95 yeah yeah so Everton
20:45Jack:another one
20:46Con:a league cup in the 90s yeah then obviously this was Newcastle's first trophy since the 50s yeah the only thing we've dared to do to test We don't dare to do anything. But it was, yeah, basically under, well, under Martin Yorl, really, I suppose it started. And then through Redknapp and Pochettino, we was there to challenge the, you know, the standard top four or five teams in the country without state-backed ownership. We dared to do that and got very close to doing something incredible, which would have been winning the league or Champions League under Pochettino. we were the first team to really break that mold of the traditional top four qualified for the Champions League basically stuck our head above the parapet in that way which people didn't seem to like fans of those traditional big teams obviously now you have teams like Newcastle and Villa who are playing for the Champions League regularly now but they are not held to the same standards as Tottenham are why that is I'm not sure My day kicks off with a refreshing Celsius energy drink
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22:44Con:Tax Act is here anytime you want to easily file your taxes. Tax Act is here for the early birds who like to knock them out as soon as the season opens. and for the procrastinators who like to wait until the very last minute. Tax Act is also here for the middlers who file right in the middle of tax season. No one ever talks about the middlers, but Tax Act sees you and Tax Act respects you. Tax Act, let's get them over with. I guess the big question is, mate, do you think we're going to go?
23:24Con:I think the only things keeping us up will be West Ham and Forrest's fixtures and mainly West Ham's fixtures. I think they've got, obviously not us included, four or five of the big six still to play, some of those away from home. Forrest's fixtures aren't much kinder. you know if it gets to a place where we only need what we've got 11 games left if we only need 9 or 10 points out of that I can see us stumbling over the line what would worry me obviously is if you know West Ham were to go Man City away and pull off a 1-0 win or something like that because I can't see us doing the same you know obviously we've got big away games as mentioned like yeah Liverpool away Sunderland away Chelsea away Villa away really struggled to see us winning any of those.
24:19Con:So if we are to stay up, it has to be those home games against teams around us. We'll have a good idea of, you know, our chances after Palace at home in a couple of weeks. That's the big one. That's, yeah, we seem to say this every week, that's one of our biggest games for a long time. Fulham away, people could sort of, yeah, if you lose that 1-0, you know they're a good team they've beaten big teams at home this season in the last couple of years
24:51Jack:I mean but even that we've got to be we've got to be scrapping for at least a draw don't we we have to get something out of we basically have to get something out of every single game we play and I'm talking even like Anfield you know just scrap be horrible like Tudor just I just want him to get into them just be disgusting be animals just get whatever you can out of any single game we have to show some fight we have to now it's critical we can't just be having this bowed heads oh well I'll get my move to wherever Leipzig in summer you know my biggest fear with this mate is I just as much as you say they don't want it on their CVs I just don't trust any of this lot I really don't there's so few of them that I actually think care I think like you know he's got experience of it and I reckon Richarlison will be up for it if he comes we need him back he's scrappy at the best of times he's a fighter we need him back
25:59Con:yeah we really do with Madison as well but that's obviously not going to happen I wouldn't imagine we basically still need to be in with as I said I don't think we'll see Madison or Kylosef this season but the rest of them we should have everyone really back by April. We need to, you know, we need to still be in a decent position. By then, for the last four or five games, we can't, you know, we can't wait until everyone's back. You know, I think I read a report, I can't remember who it was, basically Langer said to Tudor that, you know, we should be getting most of our players back soon and the sort of conversations they were having before he agreed to join.
26:40Con:I don't think we are. I mean, we could get Porro and Danso back for Fulham, but the real difference makers, I'm not too sure. I mean, we just need to make sure, even with the injury crisis as bad as it is now and as bad as it will continue to be for the next few weeks, we can't wait until the reinforcements come back because it could be too late, depending on what West Ham do.
27:14Jack:I just can't. Look, I know people say, well, rationally, break it down. Enoch have done this. I get all that stuff. I'm just talking like, you know, whatever figuratively. I just can't. I can't believe we're in this position, mate. I can't believe we're talking about this. Opening up this fucking stadium and all the promises that have been made to us for years now that this has actually happened. But it has been telegraphed. This is the thing. Like you say, as I bang on about all the time, we genuinely have looked at the last 20 transfer windows and been disappointed out the back of them. We see all of our best players leave and we replace them with players of an inferior quality, like vastly inferior quality.
27:59Jack:It's just...
28:03Con:But while the Guardian did do a report today that someone close to the Lewis family saying that in the summer, If we stay up, we will be smashing our wage structure and overhauling the squad, which is good.
28:16Jack:I mean, season ticket renewals are coming up, you know?
28:20Con:Yeah, I know, yeah. I can't realise. I might have been Foynes in WhatsApp group. Basically, a sort of similar story at this point every season, really, in terms of a promise of investment. I know we've heard that many times.
28:34Jack:I mean, the reality of us going, and you know this is probably something I need to have like a spreadsheet out to work out but you would imagine a lot of players go like if Tottenham get relegated to me obviously I think even if Tottenham stay up Van de Ven and probably Romero will be looking to leave this summer
28:56Con:yeah it seems pretty yeah it seems pretty clear with both of them and you know what if you want to go what yeah if we stay up if we stay up we need to let anyone go who wants to go because i think that's a lot of everything we've talked about here in terms of attitude body language fight if you don't want to be here then leave i don't care
29:16Jack:the thing for me is if we do stay up i think it's going to be even more critical that we do get somebody like marizio pochettino in that just just understand i know i i know that this is one of things where people say somebody else can do this i just think we are in such a strange position right now we're so uniquely poised as a football club where we actually need him we need him who understands the heart and soul of the club there's no idea there's no identity we need to get something and he is it he he's literally the only he would be the only person in the room because if we get anyone else in who are they taking pointers from johan langer like vivian lewis like what you know do you know i mean like who's gonna tell anyone whether it's a helberg or whether it's a xavi alonso what it is to be tottenham what it means what you should be proud of and you know that if pochettino comes in if spurs stay up pochettino comes in he will be he'll be sat straight down with romero he'll be sat straight down with van der ven do you want to be here no fine fine get out my office we'll sell you as he did before you know as he did with car walker at the peak of our powers the second car walker said he didn't want to be there anymore he got rid of him
30:38Con:you know i walk away until mid-season and a title race to say that as well yeah but he'll do that
30:44Jack:and and that's that's entirely what like that is entirely what we need but if we do go down i mean i'm looking at the squad now i'm thinking it's you know all of this is blue sky for them in terms of if they manage to find a club that is willing to pay for them. But I can't imagine Xavi Siemens will want to stay in the championship. Mohamed Koulous, is he going to want to stay? Dominic Solanke, is he going to want to stay? Kulusevski, Maddison? These guys aren't going to want to spend their peak years playing in the championship. I wouldn't be surprised if Maddison did stay on. I think it depends on the extent of his injury yeah of course I mean yeah he might not be back till August anyway everything that he's got going on with him but then you know you even look at you know we sort of we paint this picture of being in the championship and saying well we can build the team around Gray and Bergvau and what's the guarantee that they want to stay and play in the championship you know Bergvau's had Villa, Chelsea, Liverpool sniffing around him in January you know I can imagine they'll come like it's the point I'm trying to make is that people should know is that relegation is bad and there's one lad that keeps giving me pelters about this, Mod Tap I think he's called, he keeps going for me every time saying I'm completely deluded that I can't see any positives to Spurs going down and I think the whole argument he puts forward is that it will force the club to rethink how it does things, that it will be able to build.
32:24Jack:This situation should
32:26Con:if anything's going to, this situation should come in this close or be in this close at this stage of the season should be that wake up call.
32:34Jack:This is my point, like you can still have a wake up call and be in the Premier League. Without dying, yeah. Like Foyne's made a good point in saying that like if Can't believe that for a second. But if we inflicted the sort of result that Arsenal did to us this weekend on them at any point in the last 30 years there'd be crisis talks down there do you know i mean they'd be like how the hell have we lost 4-1 to spurs and in such a in such a fashion twice in one season how has that happened and they would sort it out for us it's just normalized five losses on the bounce now i think is it first time in our history i think we've lost five on the bounce to them yeah i think so i don't think it's just Premier League.
33:17Jack:I mean, this is all over the place, but I don't see a world in which Spurs going down is a good thing. And I dare say at times we would get lost to the idea of Mikey Moore ripping up championship defences. Maybe Dane Scarlett starts up top. Do you know what I mean? Who knows? Who knows? you know Williams Barnett all these sort of lads like come through and maybe some of them play but again the championship's not an easy league either do you know what I mean I don't think we can just sit here and say well it'll be fine because we've got some promising 16 to 21 year olds so we're going to smash the championship to pieces there's nothing to say
34:03Con:we'd come throwback up at all everyone down there would see us as a scalp in the biggest game of the season as for some reason half the Premier League does at the minute. There's nothing to say we'd bounce straight back up. That often doesn't happen. I know it's happened for Newcastle the couple of times they've been down, but I wouldn't trust us. I wouldn't trust us to just bounce straight back up. It's a very competitive league. There's a fucking lot of games. It would be a disaster.
34:33Jack:I mean, that's it, isn't it, mate? It's a complete disaster. it's a disaster that we're here and I just you know I'm genuinely mate I am actually like sort of spiraling about it a bit I've spoken about it on here before with Phil and you say that you know when the wheels come off things to spurs past like the initial annoyance of it you start to get drawn to the chaos you know we see spurs on spurs kicking off in the ground it's kind of funny and you know but this is like this is way beyond that man yeah it is I mean the thought of that final day of the season can you imagine it all the heads down confirmed Tottenham are relegated from the Premier League as Arsenal lift the trophy
35:24Con:it's fucking unbelievable mate it really is how this scenario is even possible quite literally the worst thing that could possibly happen in football
35:32Jack:it's the darkest timeline nothing worse
35:35Con:could happen in football than Arsenal winning title at the same time Tom can get relegated and that would have been pie in the sky up until about a year ago even thinking like that and the people who have let it happen need to be in the words of Tom Foynes hounded out of this football club hounded out of this club even if we stay up even if we stay up everyone has to go everyone has to go I don't care about any of the players if they want to leave they can leave I don't care that's what I want
36:08Jack:I don't want us begging I don't want us begging players to stay begging anyone
36:12Con:you should not be begging anyone
36:14Jack:because I feel like that's how we've ended up in this position we've rested on our laurels for too long you know we we had Kane and Son we coasted on those two for for as long as we could and everything else was just immaterial it's quite clear this would have
36:28Con:happened a long time before if we didn't have Kane and Son you know the bottom of the rung for us used to be eighth because we had Harry Kane. That's the only reason that was as low as we got. This would have happened years ago.
36:43Jack:There's that bit though, you know, even though it like, it really vexed me at the time and I was really, you know, I was livid about it. I was livid with him. I was livid about the things he was saying. It does make you think, you know, somebody like Antonio Conte to have the outburst that he did at Southampton has come into this situation, has come into this club and just thought, what the hell are they doing? like how do they run stuff here and it feels like feels like over the past couple of years we're starting to hear you know ang had his sort of you know oh i'm sat at the big boys table and i can show off to neville and carriga moment the other day but still there's probably so you know a lot of truth in what he's saying about the sort of the the chaos behind the scenes um it feels like, you know, Miggie Delaney's piece, and I'm sure there's been plenty of others, has just been shocking about the Frank era and the way things have been sort of set up behind the scenes.
37:44Jack:Like you say, the stuff that's come out today that Lange told Igor Trudeau, yeah, all our players will be back in a couple of weeks. What are you talking about? What is actually going on there? It just, it feels like a rabble. It feels like, do you know what I mean? It feels like for years, right, You've had Spurs fans, podcasters, whoever, saying Enoch are running the club into the ground. They're useless. They're not this. They're not football people. They don't get it. They don't understand what it takes to be successful. So on and so forth, right? And we've had a litany of media figures. You're Simon Jordans, probably plenty of other, you know, broadsheet or otherwise journalists.
38:30Jack:your Gary Nevels your whoever else has come out and say fans don't understand fans are entitled what do they want they built them a nice stadium all this sort of stuff right it's really coming home to roost now isn't it and we're we're having that you mentioned Nigel Farage earlier we're having that you're not laughing now moment aren't we like it's just it's it's a shambles isn't it yeah
38:55Con:it is it really is and if Igor Tudor can pull it together then he'd give him a statue where do you want your statue Igor Tudor because I honestly that man would be a legend if he keeps us up and I think there's a good chance I know we've been talking about the last 40 odd minutes there's surely a good chance that we stay in the Premier League there has to be with the players we have in comparison to who we're up against the players we have coming back one day. One thing we haven't touched on is how much Romero dropped us in it, by the way, at this time. I know we had the podcast after that Man United game and you weren't so sure there was red cards.
39:36Con:I think he's properly dropped us in it at a time when that's the last thing we needed. The captain. He's nowhere to be seen for four games because he tried to cut Casemiro in half. I think that's pathetic. Jack, pathetic. I don't say that word very often. honestly I'm well annoyed at Romero and he's not even playing for two weeks can I say again
40:02Jack:I do want to say because I said this after but I do want to make this point again because I've seen something else today do you know who else I'm annoyed with unsurprisingly is Ezza like have you seen have you seen the little video of him calling us trash as he's come off the pitch no there's a picture of him on the subs bench saying to like Maduake he's been like yeah he's like trash he's saying that of us and i'm just like annoying he's just he's a weird bloke he's a he's a weird how much he how much he hates us yeah he's saying on the on the post-match all we did was try to buy him all we did was try to make you our star player yeah i mean like all we did was try to give you loads of money we were all like blowing smoke up your ass all across spurs twitter everywhere yeah everyone begging him to come all this like yeah we were nice to you yeah i mean and And you hate us.
40:55Jack:I think, to be honest, I think a lot of that he'll be responding to
40:57Con:is just the social media noise around that time and the let it all work out stuff with the Xavi Simmons announcement and all that sort of shite and comparing those two players. I don't see what he could be annoyed at the club for necessarily, but I just assume that's what he's responding to. But it's just unbelievable that he's scored five goals against us this season out of six goals total, five against Spurs. And he's played a red, he's played 360 minutes in total since the last North London derby. And they just dropped him into this and he scores two. Well annoying. Hope he doesn't go to the World Cup.
41:41Jack:But why, I guess the point that I, you know, I would raise here is why haven't we got anyone like that? Do you know what I mean? Why does this feel like we never have that player that just can muster that extra I mean we had it for a long time in Harry Kane you know like he he he you know was clearly spurred on no pun intended genuinely by by that the feeling of being jilted by Arsenal right you know I think I think we can we're all old enough and you know wise enough to accept that he probably was a boyhood Arsenal fan and he got kicked out of their academy me and he when we used were you standing there in an Arsenal shirt Arsenal's trophy parade con no do you know what I mean like he was but what I'm saying is you know he was spurred on by that but we don't we don't have anyone we don't have anyone that I feel is like I
42:37Con:think that as close as we're going to get to that oh right yeah and again and he's not from you know he's not a boyhood Tottenham fan or anything I think the closest we've got to that in terms of that and a player that is going to pop up out of nowhere and yeah produce something it would be Madison or even Kulishevsky I think they're probably the two closest we've got to that and they're dead they're dead they're dead yeah find the biggest voices in sports on the sports social podcast network like the late
43:07Jack:breaking F1 podcast hosted by Ben Hocking Harry Eade and Sam Sage we cover every race all the biggest topics in between it's unfiltered F1 chat with the genuine insight you only get from three long time I'm best friends.
43:22Con:Search Late Breaking F1 Podcast and listen wherever you get your podcasts. Sports Social Podcast Network. Dead. Dead. Yeah. Those two injuries are fucking... Kulosevsky's injury is just baffling. Just baffling. I assume his knee got absolutely smashed to bits. But I know it's just Twitter nonsense. But, you know, people saying they don't know when he's going to play again, if he's going to play again, what he's going to be able to do or when. It's just like, and just the lack of communication. I don't want to sound entitled saying that we deserve to know exactly what's wrong with him and when he's going to be coming back.
44:05Con:But there's just, even when Solanke was out for so long, there's just absolutely no communication for these very, very long-term injuries to some of our best players, which I find quite baffling. we know what's happened Madison's done his ACL yeah fine he'll be out for the year we know that but some of these other injuries but the thing is they all started with Tottenham saying it was just a knock and they'll be back soon and now we're going to go a season without
44:34Jack:I mean was it I think Kulisevsky was supposed to have been back in November 2025 wasn't he
44:38Con:and then they just well I mean yeah I'm just after the game said it was a knock and they'll be back for the Europa League but that was obviously before they knew what actually happened Mark Gahey by the way did that thanks for that but yeah Salanku was going to be back for the start of the season wasn't it
44:57Jack:yeah yeah Stephen Kelly Stephen Kelly I know him Stephen Kelly he says that the footballer yeah the only reason Tottenham will survive this season is because there are other teams that are worse than them well like I said
45:18Con:so do you know West Ham's fixtures yeah go and do it Liverpool away Fulham away Man City at home Villa away and then I've got Wolves at home Palace away Everton at home Brentford away Arsenal at home Newcastle away and Leeds that's the only reason I think we might stay up but as I said it's kind of similar
45:40Jack:to ours though isn't it
45:40Con:no it's way worse I mean they've got Liverpool, City and Arsenal and they've got Villa away Brentford away is tough we've already had that what a point that was by the way Mr. Frank point away at Brentford Palace away Fulham away
46:00Jack:Fulham away Palace at home Liverpool away Forest at home I mean it's in our own hands do you know what I mean that's the thing it's very much in our hands yeah it's oh mate
46:13Con:those home games obviously our home form is baffling you couldn't really ask for five kind of home games to finish the season in this position.
46:22Jack:Villa away, Leeds at home, Chelsea away though. Can you imagine how much if we're in that? They were relegating us. Oh yeah,
46:30Con:as I was going to say, yeah, as we said, the worst possible football scenario, Arsenal winning the title and Tottenham getting relegated. We didn't bring into that Chelsea relegating us. At Stamford Bridge. So just sprinkle that.
46:42Jack:Spurs going down, Chelsea relegating us, West Ham staying up just to point out. it's all just do you know what I mean it's fucking horrible isn't it what's going on do you know what I mean there's even there's genuinely even some talk that Palace are going to get rid of Glasner and bring in Thomas Frank before we play them as well
46:58Con:well I hope they do we'll be fine in that case that would be fantastic if they could do that yeah
47:04Jack:that should be one of those things that we actually shouldn't worry about given our our first hand experience with them yeah I'm just you know it's it's it's it's a catastrophe for the club and it may if we go down like there's no there's no way to i just i just i don't buy into any sense of sugarcoating it like no financially it's a catastrophe in a playing sense it's a catastrophe it just you know we can sell this oh it means that we'll you know get our priorities in order and all this type of thing like priorities stay in the fucking premier league and that's it that's it this lot didn't even spend money when we won the when we won the europa league this lot didn't even spend money to give us a you know a good head start in the Champions League.
47:48Jack:They're not going to suddenly change their ways if we find ourselves in the Championship, are they?
47:53Con:This January window is their biggest crime. If we go down, looking back on this January window, given what we know about Tottenham and their PSR position and the headroom we've got there, if we get relegated and all they did in January was sell our top scorer last season and bring in Conor Gallagher and a child, how bad is that going to look? It already looks awful and it was awful. We were already in a renegation fight in January. We already had 11 or 12 players out and they did nothing. Arguably weak in the team. If they were going to spend at any point it would have been there. So I don't trust a word they say in terms of oh yeah we're going to overhaul the squad and smash the wage structure in the summer.
48:38Con:I wouldn't trust a word of it. January was the time to do that.
48:43Jack:We just you simply can't you can't trust it because we've seen we sort of we joke about it but we've seen this pattern of behavior this these sort of sound bites come out from the club pretty much every single year for at least a decade haven't we yeah a cash injection had a few of them i don't know where the fuck that's gone yeah what was it there was a hundred mil of their own money they've put in 150 mil at this point yeah and then the problem is and it always gets wheeled back oh no we had to amortize some old transfer fees and and i dare say the thing is i dare say there is probably some truth to that right but the problem is is it's you lot that pitch it as you're putting this money in because you want to go and buy mbappe or whatever do you know i mean like that's the sort of that's the carrot you always dangle when you want people to not be fed up of you when you want the protests to stop when you want people to renew their season tickets um and i mean it's just i'd be i would be really interested to hear like if you could write in the comments on spotify or just tweet me or whatever i'd be really interested to hear from season ticket holders how you are feeling about renewing coming up into a new season.
50:04Jack:We've seen the price and they said they're going to freeze the pricing. But what?
50:11Con:£85 for Preston at home. Do you know what I mean?
50:16Jack:What's the category A game in the championship? Wrexham straight away, isn't it? If they don't come up. Wrexham's a category A. We get to sit and see Ryan Reynolds on the sideline having a laugh as they beat us or something. You know, it's just, I just, I'm sort of, I am actually genuinely lost for words, Con. I just don't.
50:39Con:No, I have been as well. Yeah, that's why I've been quite, yeah, there's not necessarily been a thread to much what I've said during this. But it's just because things keep popping into my head and I keep having to shout at people and call them names. because I can't get my head around us being in this situation. But that's because we're entitled Tottenham fans. That's it, isn't it?
51:05Jack:As Ali Rudd said, just, yeah, just trying to wrap your head around all the pieces, like all the pieces that are moving.
51:16Jack:I just, I simply, I don't know what Tottenham in the championship looks like. But what I do know is I don't want to see it. It's not enough of a carrot for me. to say, oh, well, at least Mikey Moore will play week in, week out. I don't care. No, it's not on Mikey Moore, by the way. No, but the thing is, if he's good enough, he'll play week in, week out in the Premier League.
51:41Con:Yeah.
51:41Jack:You know, and that's my point. You know, that's the thing. I don't see it as like a necessary evil to get relegated for the people that run this gigantic sporting franchise that they've built properly. I don't see it as a necessity that we have to go down in order for them to do that. It's just, you know, and I don't know if it's just people trying to make themselves feel better about the position that we're in or what, but it just, the whole thing just seems absolutely mad to me. It seems beyond mad.
52:18Con:I think we have a really clear picture of our chances after Fulham and Palace after those two games because, you know, the North London derbies is never a free hit. It's never a thing like that. Unfortunately, they're the best team in the country. They were coming off the back of some awful results. They were always going to be bang up for it, which they were, as we should have been, obviously. That's a honking first game for a manager. And I know what he said before, and I get that. It's never a bad time to play. I was not home, whether things are going badly or things are going well. But it is, because they're the best team in the country and we're currently in 2026 the worst team in the country.
52:59Con:So I don't want to rush to any judgments on Igor Tudor or anything like that. Just from that game, you know, he had three days training before that. He's got a full week now. I think we'll have a really good idea of whether we've got a chance of staying in this league or not. Or, you know what, whether it's even going to be close after these couple of games, Fulham and Palace. I think they're a big barometer of where we are. If we don't get at least three points from those two games, then we're in big, big trouble. Maybe more. But I think it'll be a lot easier to assess our chances of staying up or otherwise after those two games.
53:44Con:I think it's quite hard to do that just from Sunday's match.
53:50Jack:I never know with this stuff but how many points do you reckon we realistically need? How many points do you think we realistically need
53:57Con:to stay up? 40, so I think we need 11 or 12 points to be sure I think that would do it I think we need 11 or 12 points We might need fewer than that West Ham might lose 8 or 9 of their games but I think to be sure and that's allowing for a few West Dam and Forest wins. I think we need...
54:22Jack:That almost feels like... I don't know. That feels like a mountain, doesn't it?
54:27Con:It does right now, yeah. It does. But then, you know, that's why I think it'll be much easier to assess this after these next couple of games. What if we go to Fulham and win 2-0? If we go to Fulham and win 2-0, then I'll be honest, I'll probably stop worrying about being relegated. Because, you know, that seems such an alien concept right now. Tottenham Hotspur going to Fulham and winning 2-0. But it would just be such a relief to, and it would, yeah, obviously instill that belief that we're allowed to win games, which has been taken away. But we go to Fulham and lose 2-0. Yeah. You know? That's it.
55:06Con:There hasn't been a happy hunting ground, has it, recently?
55:09Jack:Is there any any positives you can float into the ether before we put a pin in this one, Con?
55:18Con:as I said we're in this position because I'm not saying we're in this position because of Thomas Frank we're in this position because we've had a season of Thomas Frank as manager on top of all the other circumstances we've talked about they've got rid of him too late but they've got rid of him and we have got a new manager in who's basically whose job this is coming in and firefighting with 12, 13, 14 games left he's got an incredible track record of that and as I said I don't want you know I haven't lost hope that he can do that just because we've been battered by Arsenal because as we've unfortunately had to mention that happens all the time now so the only positive is that we do have a new manager, he's been there and done it before, not in this league but you know, in Italy and he seems to have a track record of motivating teams in the short term and be their goal qualifying for the Champions League, qualifying for the Robo League or staying in the league he seems to do quite well at that so that's about it, I don't know
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From the publisher
Jack welcomes Con back to the show, and he is angry. After specifically requesting to come on purely to vent his frustrations, the pair pick through the rubble of another painful North London Derby defeat.
With the dust having settled slightly on the 4-1 thrashing at the hands of Arsenal, we desperately try to see if there are any positives to take forward as Tottenham find themselves thoroughly entrenched in a relegation battle. We ask the big questions: do these players actually have the stomach for a scrap at the bottom of the table? Can this squad be trusted when the pressure is truly on?
We also take a microscope to some of the individual performances on the day, and speculate on the uncomfortable truth: if the unthinkable happens and Spurs do go down, who will be the first players to jump ship?
Theme is Ghost Cat by Gillen
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