Green Shoots in Paris with Charlie Parrish | The Xavi Simons Conundrum, Frank's Playlist & Ignoring Arsenal (Q&A)

36:02And I think that he's, you know, he's not useless. He's pretty good. but is he who you want dragging your club through this sort of period? Like, has he got that sort of mentality? Does he have that sort of presence?

36:14Jack:Sharing like top trumps on his Instagram the day after the North London Derby and stuff. I know that's kind of leaning into Gammon stuff, but equally just read the room a bit, lads. Just read it a bit, please. It's Richarlison, you know, sharing his goal, you know, from the North London Derby on his socials and like joshing with Gabrielle. These things make us sound like the age that we are now. That's probably an important context, Charlie, to be fair. That is a very important context. I'm horribly aware of the fact that we are not 25-year-olds anymore. But I do think that we're just in this type of situation now where you've got to find some people to guide you through.

37:04And I don't know that I feel confident. And I think, you know, we probably underestimated how vital Sonny was in many ways. And I think a lot was made about whether or not he was a good captain. Fine. Maybe as an on-field captain, he's not, you know, the kind of archetypal leader that is dragging people by the scruff of the neck and everything else. But in terms of clearly being a focal point and, you know, someone to lead by example and who gave the club this, you know, credibility and class and all of these things, we are, you know, we're severely lacking now. I don't think we've got it at all.

37:41Jack:It's wild, isn't it? And this feels like, I'm pretty sure this is like a Tim Sherwood-ism type thing, but Pete Pochettino, it felt like we had captains all over the pitch. You know, Lloris, Karl Walker could probably do it. Jan and Toby definitely both could have been a captain. Dembele could have been a captain Eric Dier like all of these guys Dier, Kane, Son all of them you know all over the pitch you had guys who were leaders who were who were nasty bastards when they needed to be I know by the way we've not actually mentioned our actual club captain during that period it's just yeah anyway well you know like you say I mean losing Sonny is obviously huge but I guess we probably don't think enough about the fact that we have slowly but surely lost players like Toby, Jan, Dembele, Lloris, Kane, Son, in quick succession, year on year, we've been losing these players and not been replacing them, not replacing them with players who are of a comparable quality on the pitch, but seemingly players who are of a comparable kind of, you know, it's dodgy territory when you start going into mental quality and stuff, but players who are at least wired in a similar way.

39:00Jack:And, you know, I know that kind of thing is hard to find, but again, like you've got reference Arsenal and you've got to say that they seem to be able to find, but they are one of the most horrible teams I can remember in quite some time. Technically dogged, horrible, nasty. They actually, funnily enough, they actually remind me quite a lot of the Argentinian national team. just loads of technically sound, dogged, horrible bastards. They're not actually the flashiest team, and you can see that from the football that they play. The majority of their goals come from set pieces, but at the same time, they still have players who are capable of a bit of wizardry, if you like, because they're all technically sound.

39:49Jack:This is very much the drill tweet, isn't it? No, you do not have to hand it to Isis. but it feels like that every single day when we're talking about when we're talking about you know and i think this is arguably thomas frank's biggest issue and i think that if we were still in a world where arsenal were mucking about at that kind of post-wenger emery stage and finishing you know outside the top four wearing puma kits as a bit of a non-entity why couldn't it have been that why couldn't they stay there charlie i know this is this is the problem instead they've kind of gone away licked their wounds you know re-emerged and it's a top to bottom transformation that's the problem you know this is so horribly well thought out this re-emergence of Arsenal is this sort of power but you know again you know you sort of don't want to doff your cap to to terrorists but it's like they're they've done such an incredible job and it's so galling and I think you know as a Spurs person you know everything we do will always be compared.

40:54Everything we do will go hand in glove with whatever they're doing, really. And it's sort of pathetic to say that. And I don't really care because even Arsenal fans, whether they admit it or not, it's the same in reverse. They care as well. They do. Albeit now, you know, they're slowly getting back to that place where we're into sort of annoying little brother territory that they can put in their place a couple of times a season and maybe don't have to worry about us again. But for a long time, they were absolutely very, very bothered by what we were doing. But yeah, it's very hard. And I think for Frank, you know, he might have to be performing very tricky open heart surgery on a Tottenham Hotspur in the shadow of our biggest rivals becoming potentially, you know, the next European superpower.

41:37And whether or not he has got the style of football or is a good enough communicator even. And I think that's one thing that sort of saddened me a bit and that I thought he was actually maybe a bit more skilled at sort of speaking to the fans and handling press than he's currently showing, where I think he's looked a little bit naive at times in the scrutiny that he's faced. I think, you know, the concerns that we might have had around, well, if Brentford have a couple of dodgy weeks, who really cares? You know, like, it's fine. They're probably not going to get relegated. They'll, you know, They'll learn their lessons, they'll come back, they'll beat Crystal Palace 2-1 at home and everyone's happy again for a few more weeks.

42:21At Spurs, if you have the type of weeks that he's having at the moment, it's full crisis. Fans are conducting podcasts questioning whether he should be sacked after three months. It's a very real level of stress that I'm surprised that he's surprised because I see him come out and you can see him a bit kind of wide-eyed at some of the questions he's being asked. I'm like, come on, mate.

42:43Jack:this is such a step up you must have known this did you see this pre so in the pre-psg press conference they the question was put to him you know are you going to be trying to play a bit more expansively in this one because obviously you've there's been quite a backlash after the arsenal game and how negatively you played and he did he did this kind of it was almost a bit pantomime like oh there's a there's a backlash oh well i wouldn't know i don't i don't read the media and I don't pay attention to social media. And he kind of looks across to the media guy and he's like, I mean, you know, they kind of tell me sometimes the, the, the feelings of stuff.

43:20Jack:Let's see. You're kidding, man. Are you kidding? Like, of course you, of course, you know, there's something of a backlash. And if you, I don't know, I don't know, you know, I don't know, like whatever we want to say of Thomas Frank to get to where he's gotten to, he's a premier league manager. So he is, uh, you know, he's an elite performing individual, not to get, not to get all Jake Humphries about it. Right. so you know i i'm not you know i can't imagine how these people have to insulate themselves from the world protect their bubble to maintain their clarity of thought their vision their unwavering belief in themselves and what it is that they're doing it's hard to believe that thomas frank has that given that given the way that we play but still you would imagine that has to that has to factor in there somewhere but then you know there were things from him to your point mate that back it up in that there's just inconsistencies there there's inconsistencies where he wants to be this kind of this stoic you know i just focus on ourselves i don't talk about anyone else who is ahead of today's head of a north London derby doing that what are you doing like mate footballers are psychopaths the second you give them something like that they are going to go insane for that and look what happened i can't say exactly that that's the reason there's a score of hat trick i'm sure he had it in his mind that i've got to make a statement here against tottenham the team that we're going to buy me blah blah blah blah blah all that nonsense but maybe he wasn't maybe he wouldn't have gone for the throats like he did yeah there was probably a small part of him and you know and he seems by all accounts as a is a really decent human being who everyone who has had any dealings with him raves about what a fine individual he is, and I'm sure he is.

45:06And to that point, he probably felt a little sorry for Spurs. We had gone for him in a big way. He kind of let us down. I'm not saying that he would have gone easy on us on Sunday, but that would have definitely... Hearing the Spurs manager say what he said, And I know that Frank probably, it probably didn't come out as he intended it to. And, you know, he was wanting to just get across that we're only worried about ourselves and the players that play for Tottenham Hotspur. We're not worried about players that play for Arsenal. But as you say, mate, like footballers are absolute psychopaths and they just need, you know, they need one little bit of extra motivation to take them to a different level.

45:50And, you know, Arteta is exactly the type of manager that would have played in that over and over again and gone, go and show them, like show them, like show them. And yeah, it's just that lack of savvy that I think he's really showing at the moment in lots of different ways that alarms me a bit. And I'm worried, you know, and I think to go back to maybe your original question, like where I am with him, I think is, because there is no one else out there that I think we could realistically get that would seismically improve our situation right now. And I know that there's a bunch of football tactical types online that I'm sure would list five or six coaches from across Europe that could come in and have us playing slick football within weeks and improve where we are.

46:41But to my mind, I don't think at this point in time I could see anyone that would be worth the gamble of bringing in versus trying to just stay the course with this for a bit longer see if things like last night can you know the green shoots from psg can become something to really cling to and grow from i'm i mean that's not convinced but i think i don't know what choice we have do you know what i mean we need not only a result and whatever we need not only a result but we need a performance

47:13Jack:against fulham we really have to make a statement that we have to yeah we have to stop the rot because I know it's early days. I know we don't have Kulisevsky. We don't have Madison. We don't have Solanke available to us. But at the same time, we do still have some good players. I think there are enough good players there. And I understand why it wound people up for Frank to weaponize the 17th place finish last year. Flav was making a very good point on the pod that the 17th place finish last year wasn't acceptable at the time. So you can't use that now as a thing to say, well, that's where we've come from because we hadn't.

47:45Jack:It was a false position last year. And to use that as a genuine attempt to deflect away from the way you are playing this season is a dereliction of duty. It feels desperate. And I think that's a worry that he's already feeling like he's in a position where he's having to wheel out these defences that feel very throwaway. And it doesn't take a genius to unpick the credibility of things like that. I'm not sure. I mean, you know, I do have this, and I think watching Kolo Mouane last night and watching Gray and watching Bergwahl and kind of Sar, although I thought Sar wasn't particularly great and I don't ever want to see that fourth goal ever again.

48:32And I'm sure he doesn't either.

48:34Jack:No, yeah. It did make me think, do you know what? Is there a team that can be cobbled together from this mad mix of players that we've been discussing? And, you know, whether or not Kuliseski comes back and is immediately or even, you know, in a kind of midterm way, able to contribute in a meaningful way, we don't know yet. But you start to think, well, if you can get these guys back and if Frank can let go of this, you know, Pelinia-Bentonker obsession in midfield and one of the wingers can actually start doing something and Simons does start figuring out a little bit and Kylo Mawani is now fit and settled and motivated, you know, because again, we spoke about him very briefly, but, you know, I was talking to my brother about him last night and he was like, on paper watching on and indeed watching that performance he has everything you want from a premier league striker he's big he can win headers he can hold the ball up quite beautifully at times he can clearly finish he's strong you know he is what a lot of premier league teams are crying out for to either complete their teams or to score enough goals to you know get them safe so you You watch him play like that and think, oh man, maybe him playing either with another striker like that or when Koleskiewski's back.

50:02So I do think that hopefully there is, if we're being positive, Frank is figuring stuff out. We'll loosen the handbrake in certain fixtures. It's starting to understand that both from an on-pitch perspective and also an off-the-pitch perspective in terms of the fans giving that patience when they see younger players committed, you know, fighting for the shirt and also turning up and playing better football, that that's the route that he needs to follow, not this kind of cowardly lion. I'm just going to pick the most like, you know, the oldest players because they're probably the most experienced and probably know how to, you know, see out a nil-nil.

50:41And I just hope that we score from a corner kind of thinking that has, you know, really been, you know, unfortunately, what we will remember from his first three or four months in charge.

51:18Jack:different and messy only trusts Duracell.

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52:44Jack:even know if i want to reflect on this as a as a genuine thing i just i more want to say why like what why you know we're talking about like earlier puma kits and emery and all that type of thing why couldn't they've just bobbled along like manchester united are now sure we might have to suffer seeing them win an fa cup or something like that down the line but to go from banter fc to go from us winning europe we literally we ended a 17 year trophy drought we've been afforded what three four months of being able to say war a trophy before we genuinely have to stare down the prospect of them winning not only the premier league maybe dash probably the champions league as well who the hell knows what else like it's just like you say how does this happen how does this happen i mean do you remember the conte season where we you know we nicked fourth off them at the last you know and they had the maybe they'll lose it coming out yeah like it was like that summer was you know maybe after that Norwich the 5-0 remember I was on holiday and I just remember being like I don't know I've ever been this happy being a football fan I was like Arsenal have just thrown away fourth we look like we're gonna you know with Conte and Conte like came out a couple of days after that and said that he was staying then we signed Perisic I was like oh my god like we're going to challenge for the title next season.

54:08This is unbelievable. And we finished Arsenal off. It felt like at that point they were so desperate to get back into the Champions League. And that was what was really, without Champions League football, they would never get to that sort of next level. And we had stolen it from them. And then everything since then. And to your point about Bilbao, what deal with the devil did we have to strike to have that night of glory compared to what is coming for us, you know, down the road, seemingly. It's crazy. You know, you even think back to the sort of Sonny miss against Man City, which, you know, cost them the title.

54:49And it's, you know, oh, this is amazing. Like, we've, you know, ha, ha, ha, isn't this funny? But it's like, I don't know, there's a price, my friends. Like, you might have enjoyed that, but wait till you see what's coming for you in the post. And I think, unfortunately, we're about to finally see what that really looks like. And to answer the question, yeah, we do. And I mean, you know, we are seemingly doing that, right? We've got Vinay, who sort of was, I think, very prominent in this overhaul at Arsenal, across not just the playing staff, but, you know, the marketing, the insistence that they should go out and get Adidas to replace Puma, the complete overhaul in the sort of public image that they've projected working with you know music artists and talent and celebrities to really foster this sense of like arsenal of this very cool london entity that you know famous people are now very happy to you know go out and champion so i think i mean and you know it sounds like we've um well not sounds like we've gone out and poached one of their marketing chiefs but again it's like you know that's all very well and good and it's a bit like the slanky sort of analogy i used earlier like fine if you're going to do that but you have to then give a marketing team without getting too sort of you know business of football you have to give a marketing team some budget i mean you know this jack you work in in football content and media like it's all very well having talented people but if there's no budget to go and do cool shit and to back it up and to amplify what you're doing it doesn't matter so spurs have to not just go and make these kind of splashy headliney things but they've got to back it up and i think that's where arsenal have just backed it up all the way through for the last five years

56:34Jack:i won't name any names but spurs remind me a lot of a company i used to work for who like you're saying they used to what they used to like doing is hiring we've hired the head of channel force digital content we've hired this person from netflix we've hired that person from the bbc and put it out in industry white papers and show off and be very kind of look at us we're we're an upwardly mobile company that's poaching all this top tier talent from everywhere not actually mentioning the fact that once they've made the kind of these these glossy appointments those people when they get into the company are like so what have i got to work with oh a junior and a desk you know this is a budget it's kind of it i think this goes back to what we were saying earlier about you know this slightly phantom um you know is it really real is what is what tottenham project out to the world rooted in reality and is there anything to back it up and i think you know tying a lot of what we've been talking about together perhaps like we will see because we will see whether this newly rebranded Lewis group that is now running the show has any substance to it.

57:47Are they actually here to do anything different to what has been done before, or is it just a bit of a folly for a couple of bored billionaires? We'll see.

57:58Jack:Tim at Sock Formation. Hi Tim, we love Tim. He said, I know it's boring, but what the hell is going to happen with champions league registration in the new year with Kulu hopefully back new signings etc I can't see us selling any of the registered players I'm awful at this type of stuff Charlie I don't know the ins and outs of how these things work so you know but it's but Tim's completely correct I mean I think you can add I say this without any real um belief in what i'm saying but i think you can add like one or two people to the squad whether or not oh no but you have to take people out so you can't just like add new ones i don't know man like because you've got right you've got you've got dragison who i imagine i can see dragison like actually playing quite a lot weirdly i think he might be a bit of a frank guy we seem to be talking about him quite a lot don't we like the club on the comms and all that type of stuff so I'm like yeah I think I think he might feature I feel like he's been earmarked I mean Tell is arguably you know being one of the more effective albeit with a very low sort of ceiling um you know in terms of how our attackers have performed generally but he's arguably been one of the better ones I feel like he doesn't fancy him at all though Frank I think he yeah no and I think isn't fond.

59:21Everyone I know is sort of willing tell to you know to make it I think he seems like such a likeable footballer in so many different ways and but yeah whether or not it's again whether or not it's going to happen with Frank I'm not sure maybe if we do sign you know particularly a left-sided forward which it sounds like is the number one priority for January then he goes on loan for six months and we send him off to somewhere to play regular football and he's someone we don't then have to worry about for the Champions League places. But Tim is completely correct because you'd assume that the Lewis's will go out and attempt at least to make a bit of a splash in the transfer market and sign, you know, you'd imagine at least a couple.

1:00:01So where the hell they feature and who would drop out. Sorry, Brennan, maybe that's it now. Maybe you have to have to come out and a few players of your ilk.

1:00:13Jack:There's this guy called Billy T. he said and this is a good one yeah I think so I like giving a new face a platform you know name five songs that would be on Frank's Apple Music playlist no surprises by Radiohead or is that just a general Spurs that's just a general Spurs isn't it he would definitely be a Coldplay guy absolutely like Viva La Vida is probably what he gets you know the blood pumping to in one of his uh 6am runs what was the uh remember the Sunderland Till I Die that that weird chairman-y CEO bod that was like we need to get everyone pumped up it was something like William Orbital or I can't yeah I don't know what it was it was some naff like noughties techno trance tune wasn't it I'm trying to think of any Danish oh Lucas Graham he was Danish wasn't remember that seven years ago once I was seven years okay there we go we'll stick that on there so that's on there who else would he like he's probably an Ed Sheeran guy isn't he yeah I could see a bit of Ed Sheeran I could see a bit of Ed Sheeran I could see him kind of trying to be cool and relate with his players by saying he likes rizzle kicks do you know what I mean that type of not realising that they're like huge Arsenal fans a lot of weird sort of faux pas there he would absolutely like something old school.

1:01:44I'm thinking Summer of 69, Brian Adams. You could imagine him getting really revved up in his car to that. And maybe Everybody's Changing by Keen. I could totally see him being a bit of a keen head. Is that five? I think that's five, isn't it?

1:02:01Jack:He might just be one of those people that's like, no, I don't listen to music. Or he only likes metal. Like Scandinavia. true proper heavy heavy dark shit i mean friend of the show martin nesbit if he's anything to go by um you know if one danish man's tastes are emblematic emblematic of an entire populace then it will be that mate it will be that kind of uh somewhat stereotypical growling metal stuff um but nice question billy maybe we'll we'll hear more from you in the sort of digital spurs well going forward thanks that's a promising start um adam mitchy uh at flicks and tricks says objectively how responsible are we as fans for the club's shortcomings and how could we be reasonably expected to improve i think that isn't that is always an interesting question that i think it's such an interesting question i think it's something that um we used to speak about on hometown glory and indeed i know the guys that are still doing hometown glory talk about fairly often that relationship and responsibility between fans and club.

1:03:07And also just the, I think, you know, what makes Spurs fans, what I'm proud of as a Spurs fan is the fact that we carry a self-deprecation with us that I don't think, for example, Arsenal fans have. I think that we are able to laugh at ourselves. We are able to, you know, see how ludicrous life as a football supporter can be and enjoy the glorious moments whilst accepting the fact that there's going to be really bleak and ridiculous moments as well. And I think, you know, I have a pride that we as Spurs fans carry that with us. However, does that, and I think the million dollar question is, does that vibe, does that DNA that we have where maybe we don't quite believe that we are a super club and that we are a power and that we will always kind of, it's a bit like, you know, when you're being teased, you make fun of yourself before someone else can make fun of you.

1:04:03I think we're in that space as Spurs fans, right? And I think in our friendship groups, I'm always the one in my sort of mixed football fan groups to make the Spurs-y joke before anyone else does, because it's like, it doesn't really, if I say it, then it's fine. But does that permeate down? And I think Eric Dier was maybe the only player that I've heard talk about it sort of openly and sort of suggest that you know Spurs and maybe I'm misremembering and perhaps it was Ericsson one of that potch group I think spoke about it in terms of you know we as a whole club have to really start believing in ourselves and you know we need to shed this Spursy thing and that kind of comes first from us and you know not always just assuming the worst is going to happen i think the problem is of course is that when the worst does keep happening how the hell do you you know blithely go through and try and you know act in any differently in a way that is healthy because i think it's much easier to be self-deprecating and to you know to not take it too seriously because you can go crazy what do you think well i was gonna say i can tie this to a

1:05:12Jack:really nice question from uh brother phil who has written to us and said uh how do we remove the specter of arsenal success from enjoying spurs and you know i think it is important because we have spoken about them a bit today and i do often get a message here or there which i don't think is out of turn from people saying love the pod but mate can you just stop going on about arsenal it doesn't matter i don't i don't want to hear you worrying about them and i don't want to have to think about it and that does give me pause of thought look ultimately i am gonna you know it's my podcast and i'm gonna talk about what i want on it but it does give me pause of thought and it does make me think not not just on the level of like oh people can stop listening if i don't do it for myself for my own sanity yeah i kind of feel like look you've you've grown up you've grown up watching this lot be one of the best teams in europe you've seen them literally win the league at our stadium you've seen them take our club captain like they can't hurt us anymore can they they can as mick mccarthy would say but you know like but what i mean is you know i got myself in a flap i think about we took we had a joke at the top about like you know you getting the unfiltered version of me on whatsapp that i just decided to wake up and think because because i'd read that harry kane has a 60 million pound clause or something in his contract this year um if he doesn't sign an extension at brian somebody can come and pick him up for a relatively cut price deal and it was that part of me that was suddenly like oh god what if they try and sign him like would kane turn them down what happens then our our our club's greatest ever player top goal scorer does a soul campbell on us as well and i'm winding myself up about it and then i started talking to you and phil about it and so and then i'm winding you two up about it and i'm It's like, this is not like, this is not a good place to be in.

1:07:08Jack:We should be able to just say, I love my football club. We have a rival that is doing something that's very good at the moment. That's annoying. And of course, you know, if they win, we're going to have to take a few of their fans saying, ha, ha, ha, you know, you lot of crap. But really, it's not much deeper than that, is it? Like, you know, it's... It's not. I think, though, that, you know, for a lot of us, we are, you know, I've got an Arsenal mad father-in-law, for example. like my my wife's side of the family are all islington born and bred hardcore arsenal fans um you know i live in north london my daughter goes to a school where i mean just for anyone like just for anyone like not fully in the he is super awesome he's not just like oh i like arsenal he is he is the arsenal isn't he like your father-in-law well he will only refer to you know he will refer to him as the arsenal but and i don't mind partly because he's hard and you know I'm married to his daughter and he's slightly terrifies me, but, and he is, he is a lovely man as well.

1:08:09I'll say that, um, in case he was to ever listen, but yeah, he's like, you know, an old school North London, you know, proper Arsenal fan and that it's therefore like, it's part of my, my life is, you know, interacting with an awful lot of Arsenal. And I live in an area where, like I said, you know, my, my daughter goes to school and the Arsenal fans in her class will make fun of her if, you know, like on the weekend, after the weekend. You know, I think I sense you, one of my best friends, his son asked for the Spurs badge on the jacket that he wears to school to be taped over. Because the Arsenal fans at school were all, you know, relentlessly making fun of him all week.

1:08:55Arsenal fan, mate.

1:08:56Jack:Arsenal. Rats. Horrible. Horrible club. That's what Arteta's done. That's his legacy. and I think that for a lot of us and it's very kind of woe is me that sort of speaking you rise above it and it's only football and it's banter and it's whatever it is blah blah blah but it's a real thing and I think it's part of a lot of people's everyday lives is this interaction between Spurs and Arsenal and what that means and the fact that our fortunes have been kind of you know we've we've been sort of neck and neck for a long time and now they're surging away again and you know they're really enjoying the fact that they've left they're surging away and some mate you know like exactly come on like you know we might we might genuinely be looking at them doing at least a treble this year which is mental you know it's like what you know and again we shouldn't i'm sure lots of people are switching off now because we're just getting like real disasterising everything.

1:09:57But in terms of the money that they've got, if you factor in seemingly half the world's footballers all grew up supporting Arsenal because of Thierry Henry, the final thing that needs to happen with them, my concern has always been, is that they win the league or win the Champions League. And that then sort of legitimises them as a place where the Mbappes and the Viniciuses. That's when they just go, The links are already coming. The Vinicius links are already coming.

1:10:26Jack:I don't know if you've seen that in the past few days. It's late. Well, if I'm going to go to Arsenal. How have we turned this? How have we turned this for a question into how do we not get rattled by Arsenal by getting rattled by Arsenal? It's like Harry Kane and Mbappe are signing for Arsenal in the next 12 months. Well, touching on some of the stuff you said there, this is a really nice one from Charlie Braffman, Chas Bob on Twitter. Good lad, very good lad. um says how do you feel about passing down spurs fandom to your offspring how do you imagine supporting spurs has changed you compared to if you hadn't had this roller coaster in your life and i've got to say it was you know after the north london derby bit like dark night of the soul type stuff i was genuinely saying to charlotte on an actual genuine it just you know it's an intrusive thought that took over for a bit that it came out where i said i don't even know if i want to put this club on her i don't know if i want her to i don't know if i want her to have to feel this if this is what it is going to be forever like do do i do because i do sometimes like i have said to my dad before why did you make me support this you know and it's actually it actually upset him a bit like i was i was saying it i was saying it kind of in jest but it did it did kind of upset him a bit so i you know i i don't really mean it i love the football club and i think that's The truth of the matter is that, look, yes, there is probably an air of gallows humour that I think we all pick up being Spurs fans.

1:11:57Jack:You know, we've really, again, not to do the world's smallest violin thing, but we really, unlike many other clubs, have had a unique form of torment placed upon us as Spurs fans. that we have to, you know, when I kind of think about it, I think like some of the stuff that we get routinely the piss taken out of us about, I think none of you lot, Brighton fans or Palace fans or whatever, you've been a bit tin pot for a few years. Try having your club captain go to your biggest rival, the biggest rival that has smoke blown up their arses by the media constantly. I have to see him win the league in your stadium, see him win an invincible.

1:12:37Jack:See, go on, give that a go. give that a go and see see how lucky we've got it as Spurs fans but look the main thing I would say to to Charlie's point is that you know we we love the club they're our club it's it's part of the family isn't it it's the family and that's and listen you know I've got you know I've got a seven-year-old daughter as you know and we used to live in Tottenham for a long time as you also know she she I think has like gotten more into being a Spurs fan um because we we left Tottenham um a couple years ago moved um not too far but we're still in North London but we we moved out of Tottenham and she was devastated by us moving she missed her friends and you know everything about where we lived she adored so I think she associates Spurs with Tottenham which of course she will but you know she associates with that first part of her life and how much she misses so I've kind of gotten quite fortunate because I think she will remain a Spurs fan because she's so like this is you know this is where I'm from this is where I was born I really miss it you know maybe that wears off but I think fortunately that you know there's enough um there's enough Spurs in her now that she's she's kind of caught up in it for life and you know we went to the parade together Delphine and I and it was one of the best days of my life like seeing her witness that and how happy and excited she was and you know I'll never forget us like running off you know we'd watch the coach the buses go by and then she'd want to sprint after them to sort of catch them around the other corner and she was like oh my god Sonny waved at me Mickey waved at you know the excitement that they capture and you can see you know days like that you're like this is she'll now be Spurs forever because that's you know that's an experience that she's had and we've had that together and it's really beautiful um and even you know she comes home and you know she's sometimes a bit upset because she goes to a school where you can wear your own clothes so she'll sometimes go in in a Spurs top or you know a Spurs you know hoodie or whatever and say oh like yeah these boys were being really mean and singing you know Arsenal win Spurs in the bin or whatever six-year-olds sing at each other and that cuts deep to be fair you know it's actually quite good for six years yeah it's really just captures exactly what's going on chance i think actually to be fair but she's like you know i she's like i don't know why they're so mean like why are they being like this it's football like it's not you know we're not mean to other people are we about who they support and i'm like no we're not like i need you to remember that and I don't really know where I'm going with this other than we'll just turn into an hour of us talking about parenting things but I just feel that you know and it's a lovely thing like you know perhaps being quite earnest for a second it's such a nice beautiful thing and I didn't have that with my dad because my dad was a Millwall fan and my mum just basically banned I think I've said this on this podcast and others before but my mum banned my brother and I from being Millwall fans because she just didn't want us associated with that Good call.

1:15:50So, yeah, I mean, the only reason I support Spurs is because I asked my dad, who Gazza and Garanenka played for watching England at the 1990 World Cup, and they both played for Tottenham. I assumed I was going to be supporting the best team in the land. You know, a lesson to all children that glory hunting doesn't always work out for you. But, you know, I've loved it and it's great. And I hope the children love it. and I think it's made me a better person accepting these, you know, this wild ride that we go on as Spurs fans and I think that it's given me a thicker skin and I don't get wound up as easily.

1:16:26It takes a minute, right? I think, you know, the teasing that you get as a Spurs fan is very real. But that's, you know, it's good for you to be able to roll with those things and not, you know, not react to idiots sort of trying to wind you up and Christ knows being a Spurs fan gives you a lot of experience with that.

1:16:45Jack:Charlie, I think that's a lovely place to leave this podcast. I'm sorry I've taken so much of your time this morning. It's been a pleasure, mate, as always. We've had loads more questions that I haven't been able to get through. So thanks everybody for sending them in. I'm sorry we didn't get round to ask them. I hope over the course of our conversation, we have kind of touched on some of the things that people have put to us. But yeah, really do appreciate everybody getting in touch. And of course, Charlie, thank you very much for uh for lending your time so is there anything you want to plug before we go no not at all just um let's all just you know we need to like we need to band together at the moment i think that like spurs twitter has become such a difficult place and i i've kind of disappeared for a long time and come back every now and again to sort of put my head above the parapet and just get you know you've said something about ang postacoglia i mean yeah I don't know why I was thinking there.

1:17:44I just had to just put my phone down for three days. But I just think like, you know, we need to all stick together right now. We are about to face probably the most testing time that a lot of Spurs fans will have gone through, if we're being honest. And I just think let's try and be nice to each other.

1:18:02Jack:Much love, Charlie. Thank you very much, mate. A pleasure.

1:18:17The End

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