Is Micky van de Ven World Class? | Life Without the Benthinha Double Pivot & Ricky Sacks’ FA Cup Dilemma (Q&A)

22:09So it's very hard to want to even adjust, adapt, implement changes when you're having to play every two to three days. And when one of those days at least is a recovery day, which means you've got very little time on the training ground to be able to tweak, to be able to change. and he's obviously got that, it feels at the moment, how do we put this, favouritism towards that Paulina-Bensoncourt pivot, which I think, again, over time...

22:36Jack:He just trusts him, doesn't he? I think he sees it as a safe pair of hands. He sees it as a safe pair of hands because he thinks if I remove one of them and he maybe looks back in his mind to last season the amount of goals we conceded, are we going to really, really open ourselves up? Which I know, again, was a real, as you know, Jack, a real constant frustration over last season, the amount of goals that we conceded, right? And you're even seeing now, even when playing that Paulina-Benson-Corp pivot, we're still considering a lot of shots on goal. You know, we can't get away from that. We are still considering a lot of shots on goal at times.

23:02So it's going to take time. I know Spurs fans hate that word time because I think the thing is, you know, when we won

23:08Jack:We've given it a lot, haven't we? We've just won the Europa League, right? And I think the feeling now is that we all want another amazing week, day, whatever you went through in Bilbao, whether it was at the stadium at Bilbao or at the Tottenham Stonsworth Stadium or at the parade, which to me, I still say, my kids was one of the best days of my life, that parade. It was just like unbelievable that day at Tottenham. So I think we all crave that again. And already by being knocked out the Carabao Cup, there's one less opportunity to do that, right? I think it's going to be a case now where we look at the FA Cup and think, how invested is Frank in this is what we will be as fans.

23:41And I'm talking to a lot of the probably match game fans now that I know love and crave domestic trophies, right? Because I think we would love, loved to follow up last season with yet another trophy. And I really hope, you know, Frank's record in Cups hasn't been that great. And that's how, again, we highlighted when we had Jay Harris on the show from The Athletic and that difference of Frank being able to understand just how important Cup competitions are to Tottenham fans. They really, really do mean a lot. And I think, with all due respect, with the Premier League, the worst thing about it is that team at the top that we can't stand, that's a worry in itself with them being where they are.

24:16And that then does, I think, affect us as fans. And on top of that, we've no Powerball Cup.

24:20Jack:You know, people want to pretend that it doesn't. That's the thing. Of course it does. You've just got to focus on yourself. Of course it's going to annoy us. Annoy us. Of course it does. If they win the Premier League, and God forbid if they won the Champions League, you know, it would be... Unbearable. Unbearable. And it is, like you say, it is going to make Spurs fans tetchy. It's going to make us tetchy. But what would help, to your point, is, look, it's never nice seeing them. I've seen them win the Premier League a couple of times. I've seen them win at Hawaii at Hart Lane. It's not pleasant.

24:52Jack:It's not nice. But we've been there. We've seen it. And what would just at least sand the edge off a little bit is if we went and won an FA Cup as well. The world's biggest soccer tournament has arrived and you can trade the entire tournament on Calci. On Calci, you can trade every match from the opening stage all the way to the final. On Calci, you're trading against peers in a live market, meaning there's no house. And as the probability changes, you can buy in and out of your position. For a limited time, download the CalShe app and use code CUP26 to get$10 when you trade 10. K-A-L-S-H-I CalShe.

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26:02Jack:And Messi only trusts Duracell. They say you can tell a lot about a person by the contents of their freezer. So, what does a bottle of Jägermeister say? It says you have standards. You don't cut corners. And you like your Jägermeister shots the way they're meant to be enjoyed. Ice cold. As for the frozen taquitos and mystery leftovers, we'll keep that between us. Drink it cold or don't drink it at all. Jägermeister. Damn, that's cold. Drink responsibly. Jägermeister liqueur, 35 % alcohol by volume. Imported by Masked Jägermeister, U.S. White Plains, New York. Yeah, they win the Premier League.

26:37Jack:If we won the FA Cup, at least we could ignore it. I'll tell you what, Jack. Just a bit. On top of that, I think also the biggest worry, I think, for some fans out there, not all fans out there, to be fair, is that it feels that, at the moment, Frank's trying to mould us into what they've become from scoring goals from set pieces, taking the most out of dead ball situations. And that's not to say that it's a wrong way of doing that. I do think you can mix it up. I think I've said this before, away at the Hill Dickinson, away at Leeds, for example, I don't think we really care in terms of those places how you get the job done.

27:08but when you are at home a la against the Wolves for example and we're not in a huge amount of possession and we're not really doing much with the ball and the Chelsea game to be fair there's a certain bravery and a certain courage that you want your Tottenham players at home to have and that's how that's really been instilled into me from a young age again from generations to generations with my dad and family that have been all spurs down the years that we are expected to not only have the ball control the ball take the ball up the pitch dictate play. What we shouldn't be at home ever, in my opinion, this is just my opinion, from, again, for many years of being, you know, drained into me or pushed into me or whatever you want to call it, cajolding to me.

27:48We should be the ones that have the emphasis at home to attack. We should not be a side that allows the opposition to come and just counter. That's just not a Tottenham thing to do. I think that goes back to that way I said earlier.

27:59Jack:We should be causing them problems, not worrying about what problems they're going to cause us, you know? 100%. And it's served as well for a long time. It's funny though, football fans, they do have their ways of viewing things. They do have their ways of certain red lines that they do. I've got a very good, he's come on here before. I've got a very good friend who's an Arsenal fan who obviously is happy with where they are in the league, but he hates the football. And it's sort of taking the enjoyment out of it from him. They'll take it though, Jack, because they're so desperate to bring the league.

28:34They'll take it. They'll take it.

28:35Jack:But if you ask him, when he's being honest, when he's not talking online, when he's talking as just a mate, he's like, I hate seeing us play this way. I don't enjoy it. I go to games. I'm bored. I don't like it. But, yeah, we're probably going to win the league. And so, of course, he's buzzing about that side of things. But it's just interesting, isn't it? It is interesting because, you know, I think everybody wants to see. When you consider, I think, like, the dream scenario was when you consider it took him a few times, it took him a few attempts, but finally Liverpool got it over the line playing that Jurgen Klopp football, that team they all loved, all that, that group of players.

29:12Jack:Yeah. It was like our Pochettino team. That's what they had under Jurgen Klopp and they did it and they swept that lead. Yeah. It was behind closed doors, but at least they got a little after party when, you know, on a slot did it in his first season, a couple of years later, which was still kind of Jurgen Klopp's team. Wasn't it really? So, but, but, but that's it, isn't it? Because it is winning is good. Winning is nice. Like we, we all want that. and we saw that with the Europa League last year. Did we win that in the most attractive fashion? No, we didn't. But when that final whistle went and you've got Sonja Min lifting up, great, big, massive, shiny trophy.

29:46Jack:Nobody cared, Jack. We were all buzzing. We were buzzing. And it's funny that you say that, no one cared. We won the trophy. That's all that matters. All that matters. But still, you do have to find that balance though because if you're sat here for the next two, three years thinking, are we just going to sort of play anti-football and maybe get an FA Cup out the back of it, is it worth it? And I don't really have an opinion either way. I just think it's an interesting discussion that we're all having in real time. We're all sort of trying to find that balance as to whether or not we are willing to take that.

30:19Jack:And a lot of people will say they're not willing to take that, and some people do think that will be fine. But, I mean, one of the bigger questions about this is, is this just an Arsenal thing? Is this just a Spurs thing? or is this kind of where football is going in general as well is this is this just the trend at the moment in football you know you sort of may be seeing the start of Pep Guardiola's kind of you know the tiki-taka inspired La Masia type football perhaps not being as effective as it has been for the last what two decades really in in football when in in different iterations maybe now this is this is a this is a reaction to that and what is going to come out the back of this is a new way of playing football.

31:02But for now, like you said,

31:05Jack:Frank is a man invested in the data. He talks about this a lot. He talks about winning these fine margins. We're talking about set pieces, about the long throws, you know, the long throws that I don't have a problem with. I find it, I think it's quite funny. You know, I just think it is. I think, Jack, it goes back. If we're winning, I don't think many people that care. But it would be interesting. That's like Justin Cochrane, that's on his coaching staff. You know, that man's come through Spurs Academy from a young age, right? So he would know, I think, the profile, the DNA of what Spurs fans love to watch.

31:35I think Frank has tried to intimate this, but he can't say it too loud. He's got a squad to work with, right? We just haven't really got the attackers there at the moment. I honestly think at the moment, when you look at Tottenham's forward options, and this might be controversial saying this, I think we've got, I don't mean to be disrespectful to Solanke, I think we've got probably the worst set of forwards I go back the last two decades. And that's not being personal or disrespectful. But when you think we used to have a forward line of Berbatov, King, Defoe, whether it was Bent, whether it was Pavlichenko, you know, we were so at times luxurised by the forward options that we had.

32:06You look at it now and no disrespect, Tell's a young guy, but the mad thing is Mawani was clearly the first choice. I didn't get Mawani, went for Tell. Guess what? We've gone back for Mawani now. So it kind of just shows you really just how at certain times in transfer windows we've panicked and made certain signs. That's not to say Tell's not a decent player, although I do think part of me, maybe I'm being very, very, I don't know, critical by saying this. I think there was a lot of K money that was left over and it maybe felt right for Tell to come in based on that. So we'll see. Again, Solanke, my biggest problem with Solanke is that his fitness has been such a frustration to have.

32:42I think sometimes the best availability is availability, not been available. Again, you can look as to why that's been the case with Solanke and the reason why he's not been available and fit. But I think he was such a great option for Frank to hold up the ball. And Richarlison, I think Crackers said the other night on last one on Spurs, Crackers said it, I think he's as Brazilian as what Crackers is at times. I just don't know. I don't know with Richarlison what's happened to him. How can you go and score that bicycle kick against Burnley?

33:06Jack:I know. And then not even hold up the ball in relation to Newcastle and the games that he's played? He's so, like in terms of his form in a footballing sense, he's so just up down isn't he you know he's so some because at the start of this season he looked absolutely phenomenal there was a part of me that's thinking right he's stepping up finally we're seeing brazil's number nine here we're seeing our nine playing in a topnum show what's going on you know and and then as ever it just it's maybe a bit streaky and i think we look we all know i think we all have to understand like he said in the past you know he's he's had his mental health problems there's stuff off the pitch that perhaps plagues him and maybe this plays a par but I think in terms of like when we just focus on the football side of things when we focus on his end product it just isn't it isn't consistent enough and it just can't be it can't really be relied upon um I'll be interested to hear your take on how you felt about him uh taking the ball off of off of Dane Scarlett who I've you know I felt did worked really hard and did a lot of good work to win that penalty in the first place, right?

34:11One of my good mates is John, who runs over Lily White Rose. Everyone knows Lily White Rose on, obviously, X and the Spurs community. Great account if you're not picking it out. Top bloke, yeah. Really good, Lavin. Touch a top bloke. I've known John for about 10, 15 years. Just an absolute top bloke. And I know he's so invested in the academy. So we've got our little private WhatsApp last one of Spurs groups. So when, obviously, he was shards and got the ball off him. I imagine John was absolutely fuming. Because Dane done really well to win the penalty, right? It was a lovely bit of skill to win the penalty.

34:38And again, you just think, again, looking at our forward options at the moment, you do wonder why maybe Dane hasn't had more of a run out. I don't know, maybe people jumping down my back saying, well, in a second, what has he done to deserve that? But it's not like a lot of our forwards right now are pulling up loads of trees, right? And I think Dane, to be fair, he scored that great goal last season for Spurs in that Europa League run to the final. Is there an argument that, what's the harm in giving him a half an hour? When you're seeing Rashard's and play the way he's playing, and Dane wins the penalty, you know, you've got to go and score the penalty right if you take the ball from you've got to score the penalty and he hasn't scored the penalty and Richie just looks at the moment a player that despite playing a lot of games of football he looks knackered he looks knackered he looks anything like I say but Brazilian at the moment so it's a shame for Dane it's a real shame for Dane I think you know maybe Dane's not gonna have a future at Spurs because it's a shame you just think you know every opportunity he's had under a manager they're not really giving that chance despite Mourinho I think one day saying or at one time claiming he was going to be a great great player we just simply haven't seen enough of Dane.

35:33So be interesting between now and January, how much time Dane does get on the field, because you feel if Dane doesn't get much time, then maybe he may need to look for a future move, and we need to bring in, I think, another centre forward. I keep saying, look, Tony seems to just divide the fan base. I think people have questions over his personality or concerns about his character traits. But look, Frank worked with him, scored loads of goals under Frank, might be available. We're crying out for a decent forwarder, puts a ball in the back of the net. Tony did that a lot for Frank. So I'd be open to that if a player wanted to come and Frank felt he was the right option for the squad.

36:07Jack:I mean, he was a top-class striker, wasn't he? Before he did go off for his Saudi sabbatical, shall we call it, for a bit. It's hard to know what sort of player will be coming back. But as you say, there definitely is a problem because whether or not Solanke, whatever we think about him, he's been out for so long. it's not like we're going to be able to just chuck him back in and he's going to be, you know, he's going to hit the ground running it is going to take him a bit of time and we don't know if, you know, if his injury is going to reoccur or not, obviously as you sort of said, we've seen some really really sort of promising signs from Kailan Mawani, but you know, finishing may be lacking a little bit, but the thing is I don't want to like put too much of a negative slant on that performance because I do think overall it was a really good performance, remember?

36:57Jack:Yeah, it's promising signs I mean, the way he pulled that boy out of the air was Berbatov, S-Jack It was, wasn't it? It was. Incredible touch. It really was. And it was a composed finish from Odeber, who, again, he is one of these players that I do think is a promising young player. But the point I've made on here a few times is that we're having these conversations around Tell and Odeber. But if we'd been better run the past few years, if Daniel Levy had been more invested in the footballing side of operations, Tell and Odeber would be two young players who would we'd be getting minutes in the Carabao Cup and we'd be assessing them on that basis.

37:34Jack:We wouldn't be assessing them as like these two young promising players as can they play first team football right now? There's so much pressure on them. And again, to me, it's just a symptom of Tottenham's poor squad building over the, over the past few years. I definitely agree with you. We definitely need more just first team ready top class players. And that's, that's the, I mean, look, I say we need like, we need that if we want to compete at the very top, if they want to keep sort of saying that Spurs are a club. That's what they're telling us. Exactly. They're telling us they want to see the club compete on all four fronts.

38:08So they give the manager a squad that can compete on all four fronts because, no disrespect, the forward line we've got at the moment cannot compete on all four fronts. Yes, we've got injuries right now, but the reality is that we've seen that. I don't want to keep bringing them up, that team down the road. They don't really care. They're still going out and spending the money to put the depth in their squad to go on and achieve something. I want to see the same thing done at Spurs. And that's why I do think the next couple of windows are going to be a real key insight into really how much ambition do we have.

38:33Now, I think January is a hard window because I think that we've seen with transfer windows, it's really hard to get what you need in that midpoint of the season. And really, I always look at the January window for me, for clubs that are struggling. I think we did it under Harry, didn't we, where we got on, we met and brought Robbie Keane back and we made a couple of really, at that time, important signings, you know, that we needed at that time. But really, I think January windows are normally a bit of a panic in terms of, right, we need to beef up the squad, or we're trying to survive, or we can maybe push on to that latter part of the season.

39:02But it's not normally a window where it's renowned for really doing high, high business, is it? Not really with Tottenham, typically.

39:09Jack:Well, no, and look, if we're sort of clamouring for someone like Antoine Semenya, Bournemouth aren't going to let him go in January. I mean, they might do for£120 million or something mental. But, you know, if we're talking like, you know, that's a summer transfer that you could maybe get done for 70, 80 mil, right, around that sort of figure. they'd want a lot more than that if they were going to let him go in January. Unless, you know, we're having preliminary conversations with them now and it's lined up, ready to go when the window opens and they've got their replacement lined up. But they're having a good season.

39:42Jack:You know, I don't think Bournemouth are one of those teams that are there to just make up the numbers anymore. They've got a rich owner. They're expanding their stadium at the end of this season. I mean, you know, they need to do it. It's about 10 ,000 see a stadium at the moment. But regardless, they're furrowing a lot of money into that club now. They do have a billionaire owner that wants to try and seemingly win stuff, try and make Bournemouth into more of a team that can compete. And that's what they've been doing so far. They've got a good manager. They've got a good squad. I think the days are gone where Tottenham can just kind of show up.

40:18Jack:And I say this of anyone. I don't think it's just a Tottenham thing. I think the Premier League now is set up as such where, in the classic sense we say, I don't really think there are small clubs anymore. No, if you are 1 % or 2 % off it, Jack, regardless of the opposition, you will be fouled. And we saw that at home to Wolves, you know. I think, I mean, look at Wolves' form this season. I think we're probably the only clubs, if the only club, they've got to pick up a point away from. You know, if you are not on it, 100 % or 99.99 % of the time, you will be fouled. And I feel we're talking about home.

40:48I know we're going to move on from this conversation. but the first goal is always crucial. Go back to Man United on the weekend. The first goal there is absolutely crucial. We need to score first. And again, I hope, I'm going to give Frank a little bit of time to see once he has those players back. Because at the moment, we're judging him really on a squad that, again, in comparison to Angus, Angus and lots of individuals as well, but we need to let Frank have a few attackers back before we really can judge what phase three looks like. But it's a big, important period for him. You know, after the international break, you know what's coming.

41:13That game coming after the international break, first off away over there at the Emirates. Then we've got PSG and you look at the fixtures to come. Newcastle background again. So it's going to be a really intriguing time in the next couple of months to really understand where Spurs are at and what Frank can get out of this squad.

41:27Jack:I know I'm going to run the risk of jinxing it, Ricky, but you know what? I've got a funny feeling about that Emirates game. I've got no right to, but... Set peace, Cam. Yeah. I've just got that sort of feeling that we might just get a slimy little win or at least come away with something from there. At least, you know, Rome wasn't built in a day. At least let's hope we don't get absolutely kind of battered there this time. Let's at least put in some fight. 100%. The Arsenal, this is why I keep saying this. I don't know if you guys, or everyone agrees out there that listens and watches the show.

42:01But the London derbies, I think, are a real barometer of how much patience and trust there is in a manager, right? Because our London derby form in the last two and a half, three years hasn't been that great. we do look at the games like the Chelsea's and the noise that comes on the back of that if you don't win that then gets really analysed and scrutinised but I do it as well on last one spurs so I can't really be a hypocrite on that and the Arsenal game is very similar we're going to want to go to Arsenal we don't want to get pumped you want to feel that you're going to be in the game Jack right I think the games against Chelsea and Arsenal you want to be in the game still feeling at the 70 80th minute mark can we nix on it here can we win it here and the problem is in the last however many years we've not even been in a lot of those Arsenal games and I think that's again a concern that hopefully, like you say, I'm quietly thinking to myself, I don't know why I've got this hope right, I'm stupid, maybe it's the Tottenham nature of me thinking, can we go there and get something that will just bring them back down to earth, but it's going to be a very, very difficult game, they've got a very good squad, I hate to say that, so it's going to be a very intriguing next couple of months where the games are coming thick and fast, and I think one thing to bear in mind with our Arsenal game is given our current form in Europe, that I think if Tottenham don't finish in the top eight, which again is maybe difficult to see right now, if they do have to play a playoff game, I think it falls in between the week before we've got Arsenal.

43:20So that's something you've got to bear in mind because the reality is that you might be playing quite a difficult side on maybe the Tuesday, Wednesday when you've got Arsenal at the weekend. So I'll be very interested to see if that does happen, what Frank does and how he prioritises it because a lot of fans will be Arsenal's the biggest game of the week, but also We want to stay in the Champions League. So some interesting decisions ahead, definitely, for Thomas Frank.

43:42Jack:You also have to consider, you know, when we talk about league form, there's Chelsea, then we've got this Manchester United game coming up. You want to stop, you know, if... Primarily, we want to stop the rock, but if we don't get a good result this weekend as well, there's going to be a lot more pressure going into that Arsenal game as well for not just the fact that it's a London derby. So there's, you know, there's constantly plates being spun, isn't there, at this level of football. And it does make it hard to enjoy it sometimes, but still, it is the game that we love, Ricky, and it's why we're here.

44:16Jack:It's why we're all talking about it. Let's go on to some of the list of questions. You thought this was your run club era. Turns out it was more of a thinking about run club era. The good news? Someone's marathon training is about to start. Sell your workout gear on Depop. Just snap a few photos and we'll take care of the rest. They get their race day fit and you get a payout for trying. Someone on Depop wants what you've got. Start selling now. Depop. Where taste recognizes taste. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Listening to this podcast instead of doom scrolling? Smart move. Another smart move?

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46:19Jack:Well, you know, if people are sort of worried, you know, we've been a bit doom and gloom worrying about the Arsenal game, I've got a good one to start you off with here from one of the Discord users, CM, who asks, basically, what was the happiest you felt creating content around this football club, Ricky? It will be the Europa League final. Because I think if anybody has known, and Jack, you know, it's like the last two, three years around Spurs, you know, we are probably blessed, I say blessed to cover the club, what I do with last for the Spurs, but there's been some crazy, crazy games crazy crazy moments crazy crazy whatever you want to call it around Spurs but that Europa League final going into it I don't think I've ever heard so much noise from parts of Australia to the match game fans about just how much we need this trophy and there was that collective I think thing that thought you know what for this 90 minutes coming up we are going to try our very best as hard as it's been to park our emotions to park our thoughts on the manager whatever you think, whether you were in for him or don't think he was the right man and get behind the team.

47:29And it was just, I think, I say relief, but it was just enjoyment of seeing the reaction of winning that trophy. And you had Ben Haynes on here recently. I thought that was such a superb show with Ben that went into such detail around. Yeah, that final and the build up to it. And now a lot of the people around the club, maybe more than the players thought, right, we actually are going there this time to win. Because you know, the Champions League final, it felt, I mean, that time under Maurizio in 2019, it felt like we were going there really just to be part of the occasion to make it up rather than actually going there to believe we can win it.

47:59And I felt like the bizarre thing is, because we had beaten United three times already in the season. I mean, I just kept saying to myself, I didn't really want to put that comment out there to scare anyone or to fear anyone. But I was unsure about could Spurs really beat United four times in a season. I mean, like you said, Jack, it wasn't the most glamorous game. You're not going to go back and watch it on whatever it is now, DVD, VHS, Blu-ray, whatever you call it these days. But it was the fact of getting over the line in a final. And everything that went around that, the players, the parade, I still say the parade was one of the best days of my life as a Spurs fan.

48:30Having just an absolute pure party for what it was, for the 10, 11 hours it was on the high road was unbelievable. Was quite simply unbelievable. So, yeah, I would definitely say for me personally that the Europa League final, the win of it and what came off the back of that with the days we had in celebration was definitely 100 % the most glorious times 100 % recording that content I mean

48:54Jack:it just was wasn't it it was pretty it was we'd waited for it for so long I mean how many years have you been doing last round on Spurs now Rick come back 10 years now near enough I think we've come back to nearly 10 years yeah yeah give or take and in that whole time I mean I was talking to to Flav about that you know he'd been doing fighting cock for a day 15-16 years however long it is now and in that whole time none of us have been able to just do that one podcast about Spurs actually winning something, dissecting a winning game, like a winning final. It just is almost surreal. And that's thousands across all the podcasts, thousands and thousands of episodes, thousands, probably hundreds of thousands of hours of us all talking about like, why didn't we win that?

49:36Jack:Why have we bottled another one? But finally, we all got that sweet release of Tottenham winning. It was just nice that one day we could all come together. I mean, it was the one thing that, you know, regardless of what you felt on Posta Coglu, on Daniel Levy, on players and whatever, we all in that collective moment were all feeling and thinking the same. And that was the most beautiful thing about winning that final. On this, let's focus on last word on Spurs. Because Tom Haywood's also said, he's basically asked, so when you first came onto the scene as more of like a news aggregator on Twitter did you always have like a grand plan in the back of your mind to create basically the media offering that you have now or is this something that's just kind of developed naturally over time it's a great question um look it was many many many years ago it was me myself and Jason McGovern I go back god it's only over 10 years ago where we kind of were working on an alternative podcast back in the day and we were kind of purely having last one spurs as a bit of an aggregator to kind of feed out the latest news on Spurs, really.

50:42And then over time, we kind of started to develop last one Spurs and thinking we want to have a platform where we can bring on, ideally, fans that go week in, week out, go to the matches, can come back and review them and give their honest takes on all things Spurs. And we've tried to make the show as inclusive and as diverse as possible. So we get a range of thoughts, but also still over time, try and retain the soul of match game fans to come and give their thoughts pre and post after the game. I think, bless him, TJ Romini is the only one of an exception because he lives in California. But he absolutely adores and loves the football club.

51:15But in and around that, I think every guest that we have on the show is a senior ticket holder, is, again, a fan that tries to go week in, week out, or every other week in, week out, around family and, again, commitments outside of Tottenham that, you know, come and give their feelings and thoughts on it. And look, I'm extremely humbled. I've been doing this nearly on a decade. It's amazing to get so much love that I do at the ground for doing the show. You can't feel that always on platforms that we've got these days on social media. But yeah, I mean, look, to answer the question, I never ever thought it would get the coverage it gets now.

51:47But I always sound extremely humbled. You never, ever know whenever it may come to an end. And the reality is at some point, Jack, there will be a time that there'll be another young person on the block that's doing what they're doing. And we might not be the flavour of the month. So look, we're just enjoying it for what it is. We'll cling on, Rick.

52:01Jack:We'll cling on, mate. We'll cling on. We'll try and cling on. Well, listen, I'm really approaching my 40s very, very soon. So I'm blessed that people seem to enjoy it for what it's worth. And I've always said this, Jack, and I'll make it clear that if it comes to a time where people just aren't enjoying it, then we're going to stop doing it. You know, I think it's really important that you also recognise, you know, your place in the market, that if people are really enjoying it, we're going to keep on doing it. And, you know, at some point, it may come to an end that. So listen, we're very blessed and really lucky and happy with the amount of love that we get for the show.

52:28So I can't thank the people out enough that give up so much of their spare time to come and watch us. Because, again, we know outside Tottenham, as you know, Jack, with family and with friends, it's a big commitment to try and produce content around Tottenham. But the one thing I will thank Tottenham for, it's never dull, Jack. Never, never dull.

52:46Jack:No, no. And that's the thing is, you know, it's world's smallest violin. Why don't somebody think of the podcasters type thing? But there are some of those games, you know, I do a pod after every single game, especially like last year or at least in the in the past few years really there's been some games i'm like i just i don't i don't want to go on and talk about this i don't i'm not gonna lie last year was probably i think in the in the eight years we've done the show last year was probably the toughest year i think i've ever had to do the show on i'd go to the ground watch us at home watch us get beat and then you're having to relive that nightmare over again like an hour and a half of doing the show and you're thinking and try and not be totally negative about it as well right And you're trying to make it listenable and watchable.

53:28And you're thinking, especially I think the Everton away at Goodison Park, we were free down in the first 25 minutes or half an hour on the Wolves game where we conceded after a minute. You're thinking, right, how am I even going to logically try and make this listenable and watchable for people? Because there's times you're just thinking, I don't think I can consume Tottenham content. I just want to get away from it. I just want to shut off and watch anything else.

53:49Jack:Because when that happens, I stop listening to, because I listen to most of the Spurs podcasts and stuff. But when we're in that bad form, I think, that's the last thing I want to listen to right now. So I can't expect people to want to listen to me go on about it when I don't want to do it as well. Not one hour after the game, are you crazy? Yeah, exactly. Shut up. I'm just going to go and put on whatever, Strictly Come Dancing or something instead. Just let my mind go to mush, you know. I don't want to talk about football or listen to anything about football. But, yeah, you know, but at the same time, it is quite cathartic because I do find it like, even though I can go into those pods thinking, I don't want to talk about this, I can't be bothered, but once you know the recording is done and it's over now i'm like yeah i've actually managed to it's sort of like i don't know it's like counseling for middle-aged blokes isn't it in a way you're like doing podcasting so you know that's kind of the way i look at it absolutely agree a good mutual friend of ours ricky billy t says uh why were you up at 4 a.m on the night of the ezzah saga it's just obviously again we've got a bit of a whatsapp group and me and bill become really really good friends over the last couple of years bless him he's just an absolute top bloke honestly I promise you for anyone that follows his follows Billy's x page like he's exactly the same in text format as he's a human which sounds crazy but he's just an absolute top guy I don't know the reason why we were even up but we both got alerted and it was like you know when you can add someone on whatsapp so you get the ping um me and Bill both messaged up again is that really real from Paul O 'Keefe at what was it half two half three in the morning so there was in that moment thinking we both can't sleep and I think the thing is I don't think I've ever seen Jack and you tell me if you feel the same or disagree I don't think I've ever seen a player that we were so invested in in SA like you spoke to like every single Spurs fan whether it was at the game away from the game friends out of Spurs fans I think everybody was like right that is that is the 10 that is the player we all want it was like a collective you know sometimes you hear a transfer room and you think oh I'm not really sold on him it'd be a 50-50 amongst the Spurs fan base but I could not find anybody that did not want Eberichieze to come and join Tottenham.

55:55So when it didn't happen, it was gut-wrenching. Absolutely gut-wrenching. I was heartbroken. I've got two boys that are both under five, right? So I have to try some kind of normality. To them as well, Ricky. To them, that's the factor, isn't it?

56:09Jack:Yeah. This is what I mean. I have to try something on normality that I'm a dad at the end of the day. So I try and, if I can, be less emotional around Spurs, which has been still hard because of much we love and adore the club. But that Eze transfer, like it really got to me. I mean, I was watching compilations of the guy. Like a guy living in his 40s just doesn't do that. So I was gutted, absolutely gutted. And for him to go there of all places makes it even harder. But let's hope Xabi Simmonds in time will go on to prove why it was the right decision when we got him and we can forget all about Eberichi Eze.

56:40But the hard thing about it as well is he's just a really nice boy, a really nice kid. So that makes it even harder. He's just a really nice kid.

56:48Jack:MJB Hotspur asks Would you take 38 points this season If it meant Spurs winning an FA Cup? God God That's a great question Because you know what 38 points means It means losing loads of games Obviously if you knew the outcome Before what happened in last season Was going to be you're going to win a trophy I think we all could have maybe got through a lot more easier But it's a really difficult one because that Europa League, as I've said, that parade was up there. It's one of the best days of my life supporting this club. I feel like I'd be a real hypocrite if I say I don't want to win an FA Cup.

57:2638 points. I tell you what, Jack, if I don't have to do last one on Spurs, I only have to watch the games, maybe I can come up with that. I really, really want us to win another trophy. I mean, for me, this whole top four trophy debate, I don't know if everyone else feels the same. I would think 80 % of people, maybe I'm putting a high percentage there now, on the back of what everyone experienced after Bill Bale, I don't think it's even a question now. Is it top four or a trophy? 100%. I think we all would love a trophy. In the FA Cup, we've not won it since 91. I mean, it would mean so much to a lot of the older fans, especially, probably putting myself in that category.

58:01Jack, I don't want to put you in there if you don't want me to.

58:02Jack:Oh man, no, but 34 years. You know, 34 years since we won the FA Cup. A cup that we were so associated with for so long as well, you know. 100%. But no, I'm definitely with you because you know I reckon until we until we got that taste of it again I probably was one of those now top four it's the most important thing the club's got a build we want to not even close it's not even close not anymore because it just maybe the first couple that so say the year we finished fourth got into Champions League for the first time in a long time I know it's Tim Pop but that did feel like a trophy it did in that moment in that moment that game definitely the after game it felt like we achieved something but then when I when I go back and if you agree when I put my emotions between well and compare them winning the Europa League to that crouch goal I still don't think it's even close like that's how much that Europa League trophy meant so I think that answers my question 100 % on that definitely the closest feeling without actually winning a trophy is obviously is Amsterdam you know because that was just such a it was such a a strange game the way it all played out.

59:06Yeah, of course. It's an un-topped thing to happen. Yeah.

59:09Jack:And knowing that we were going to the Champions League final, it was before COVID, it was before, you know, things were a bit different. And I know it sounds strange to say it's only six years ago, but I think we've all seen how everything's kind of changing the way football has changed in post-COVID, the way it's spoken about. I don't know. Like, it was just, it was like the end of an era. It was the end of that Pochettino era. There was so much going into that, but we didn't win it in the end. So maybe we'll do it this year, mate. Who knows? You know, we're unbeaten in the competition. Fingers crossed.

59:36Jack:I know I haven't got you for much longer, Rick. So I just, I just ask you, I'll put one more to you. Cause it's quite a good one. We got one here from Herbie King on Instagram who says, Ricky, you've got many amazing guests on last word on Spurs, but for me, no more so than jar wobble. Do you think, do you think your other guests appreciate what an absolute legend he is? He also says, I invite anyone to seek out Public Image Limited performing Death Disco on Top of the Pops, where Jar Wobble grins to the camera, having blacked out all of his teeth. I tell you what, that guy, I mean, he's just like, I mean, I don't want to categorise people, because I know you know 2025 now, people are accused of being put into categories or whatever, but Jar, his voice, and it's same with Crackers, they are what I consider as being like just proper Tottenham, the way they talk, the way they think, the way they act, he's just an absolute legend.

1:00:30And you're probably right, Jack. There's probably a lot of the younger people that we bring on the show that maybe don't actually appreciate or know kind of that guy's background and what he is a legend, really, in the music industry. So I love him. The only thing is when we do in the show live, we have to go after 9pm Watershed so we aren't blacked out or cancelled. But wouldn't change it for the world. He's an absolute top, top man. He loves his Tottenham, loves his football. And I've not seen him smile so much in the last kind of three or four months. So I think he's on board the Frank train at the moment.

1:00:55But like all of us, you know, three or four months is a long time in football. will ask me that again in three or four months' time. You might get a different answer, Jack.

1:01:02Jack:I'll give you just one last one, Nicky. Ian Coyes on Blue Sky says, Spurs have just won the Premier League. Out of all the guests you've had on, who's your dream last word on Spurs panel to enjoy and discuss such a moment in history? Oh, what are you doing to me, Jack? I know, it's not really fair, is it? But I thought I'd give you the controversial one right at the end, mate, where you have to pick all your favourites. I'll probably go with the people that obviously was at the start of it. Got to say, probably Lee McQueen, Crackers and Jason, bless them. I mean, those are the dream four that we had at the start.

1:01:33The old school. The originals. The old school originals. But no, everybody else. We're so blessed to have such a wonderful cast that come on to the show, give up so much of their time. So look, we can't win that. Everybody can come on. So even if it's 30 of us, 40 of us, no, it's really, really blessed and humbled by the amount of love we get for the show. And again, thanks so much to all the very, very kind people out there. Give up so much time to listen and watch it. So appreciate it.

1:01:55Jack:Ricky, it's been an absolute pleasure having you on today, mate. I really appreciate you giving me your time. Go on, plug everything. What can people listen to? What can people watch? What should we be looking out for this week? Bless you. You're a star, Jack. You're too, too kind. Firstly, mate, thanks so much for having me on here. You've had such amazing guests that have come on this show. It's an absolute pleasure and a privilege to be on. So keep up doing the great work. You've had some great, great episodes on here and keep them going. I always say out there, there's never too many podcasts in the Spurs community because everyone's got a feel of what they like for them.

1:02:24And look, we might be everyone's cup of tea, right? So I appreciate that. I respect that so everybody keep doing the great work that are out there there's so many great Tottenham podcasts everyone keep podcasting away for us everybody knows where they can find us we're after every of course game we also do the preview shows and we're already keeping an eye because January transfer window is just around the corner I know Billy phone Billy T's phone is getting already in anxious of what's coming our way so we'll be back with a lot of I'm sure busy busy transfer shows coming in January but look thanks so much as always for the support find us on X find us on podcast find us on YouTube you bet last one on Spurs.

1:02:57And again, Jack, it's been a pleasure. Thank you for having me.

1:03:00Jack:Cheers, Rick.

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