In short
Jack Trunk and Gavin Mate recap Tottenham’s trip to Nottingham Forest, focusing on the match (Spurs’ 0-0 draw), plus a behind-the-scenes “Jack’s viral bus journey” to the City Ground. They argue Spurs have improved after two straight losses, largely by dominating midfield and tightening defensively.
Guests
Gavin Mate (co-host/guest). No other guests are clearly identified as football guests; the episode is primarily Jack and Gavin.
Guest backgrounds
Gavin Mate is a regular on the Rule the Roost podcast (Spurs-focused). Jack Trunk is the host; he mentions traveling and filming the bus journey, and chatting with a “Benny” in the stands.
Key claims
Spurs were the better team and deserved a point; XG against Forest and Newcastle was higher than Forest/Newcastle’s, suggesting “unlucky” results. Oliver Glasner’s approach is seen as too decipherable/defensive for Forest’s talent. Rodrigo Bentancur was man of the match; Sandro Tonali’s presence frees Bentancur and reduces teams running through Spurs.
Notable examples
Bentancur nullifying Morgan Gibbs-White; Tonali driving a Forest player toward the corner flag without giving up; Savio’s encouraging impact after substitution; discussion of Fernandes/Gallagher midfield selection and Spurs’ low-block/creative issues.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOReturning from Absence
1:51 to 3:31
Host discusses recovering from illness and thanks guest hosts.
“It can help you with practically anything on the web.”
The Bus Journey to Nottingham
3:31 to 4:26
Discussion about the bus journey to Nottingham and its excitement.
“When I first heard it, I thought, Jack's taken this really badly because it sounds like he's been on the whiskeys and fags for like the last eight hours.”
Exploring Suburban Britain
4:26 to 8:23
Hosts delve into the landscape and characteristics of British suburbia.
“Often solo is like an important caveat through suburban British towns and villages.”
Bus Quality and Community Initiatives
8:23 to 11:28
Discussion on the quality of buses and community transportation services.
“The fact that it is actually feasible and pretty straightforward to get all the way from London to Nottingham on a fairly meagre budget was quite impressive.”
Experiences in a Village Pub
11:28 to 14:00
Host shares his experience staying above a pub in a rural village.
“So I'll be editing that over the course of this week.”
Charming Pubs and Travel Reflections
14:00 to 16:48
Explore the charm of local pubs and the joys of travel during transit.
“I'm kind of honest, I like the shoulder seasons.”
Charming Pubs and Travel Reflections
18:04 to 18:53
Explore the charm of local pubs and the joys of travel during transit.
“Odoo is an all-in-one business management software that connects every part of your business into one powerful, easy-to-use platform.”
Charming Pubs and Travel Reflections
18:57 to 19:26
Explore the charm of local pubs and the joys of travel during transit.
Tottenham vs Nottingham Forest Match Analysis
19:26 to 23:05
Discuss the significance of the match and reflections on fan sentiment towards Nottingham Forest.
“right tools to keep your projects moving.”
Team Performance and Strategic Insights
23:05 to 28:00
Analyze Tottenham's recent performance, strategies, and management insights.
“I think I feel relatively positive now that Duster's settled.”
Show all 20 chapters
Analyzing Roberto Di Zerbi's Tactics
28:00 to 30:30
Discussing the predictable tactics of De Zerbi and Stellini's mind games.
“you know exactly what Roberto Di Zerbi is going to do because he does the same thing in every single game.”
Rodrigo Bentancur's Performance
30:30 to 33:30
Evaluating Bentancur's standout performance and his partnership with Tonali.
“We've always, as a team, struggled to give our best players true competition.”
Rodrigo Bentancur's Performance
34:11 to 34:27
Evaluating Bentancur's standout performance and his partnership with Tonali.
“Ask your prescriber about WeGoV, semaglutide injection 2.4 milligrams, a GLP-1.”
Rodrigo Bentancur's Performance
34:44 to 35:01
Evaluating Bentancur's standout performance and his partnership with Tonali.
“It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks.”
Evaluating Sandro Tonali's Impact
35:48 to 38:00
Discussing Tonali's performance and how he compares to past midfielders.
“There was one moment in particular when he just did not give up the fight.”
Midfield Dynamics and Team Strategy
38:00 to 42:00
Analyzing midfield dynamics, player competition, and team strategies.
Analyzing Player Performances and Team Strategy
42:00 to 48:01
Discussing player contributions, team dynamics, and tactical choices from recent games.
“11 they've known their their best 11 and they've they've tried to not react too much to changes that the opposition have made and just trust in their own ability and tactical plan.”
Analyzing Player Performances and Team Strategy
48:29 to 48:49
Discussing player contributions, team dynamics, and tactical choices from recent games.
“Every game day, you show up for your team.”
Analyzing Player Performances and Team Strategy
49:06 to 49:23
Discussing player contributions, team dynamics, and tactical choices from recent games.
“It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks.”
Reflecting on Spurs' Season and Future Prospects
49:23 to 55:54
Evaluating Tottenham's current season, discussing challenges, and looking ahead.
“Check responses set up required compatibility and availability varies 18+.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Jack:Welcome back to Rule the Roost. Yes, it's one of those annoying ad read type things at the top of a podcast you're looking forward to listening to. Thanks for tuning in. Just a quick request before I start. If you want to help support the show this season, please leave me a rating on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. You can drop me a follow on Instagram at Ted Trunk or if you really fancy, head over to patreon.com slash RTR pod for extra episodes and access to the Discord community. All of these things really help the podcast to get discovered by more Spurs fans, and it keeps the show growing for the new campaign.
0:34Jack:Thanks for the support, and now, on with the show. Before the season even kicks off, soccer fans are already making predictions. Who wins the league? Who qualifies for Europe? And who's lifting the trophy at season's end? On Calci, America's number one prediction market platform, you're trading against peers in a live market, meaning there's no house. And as the probability changes, you can buy in and out of your position. For a limited time, download the CalShe app and use code CUP26 to get$10 when you trade 10. K-A-L-S-H-I, CalShe. Trade the beautiful game. 18 plus only restrictions and eligibility requirements apply.
1:07Jack:Event contract trading involves risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Prices, values, and available markets may differ from those mentioned. For more information, see calshe.com slash regulatory. Fall is the perfect time to refresh and reorganize your space. At the Home Depot, find power tools and tool sets starting at$50. to help tackle DIY projects, home updates, and more. Whether you're drilling brackets to support new shelving or sharpening your hedge trimmer blade with an angle grinder, The Home Depot has the tools you need to check projects off your list. Shop Labor Day savings at The Home Depot and gear up for fall projects with the right tools to keep your projects moving.
1:48Jack:This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome? That's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web. like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required, compatibility and availability varies 18+.
2:37Hello everybody
2:39Jack:everybody welcome back to rule the ruse podcast i might be slightly slightly more hoarse than usual but i'm on the road to recovery thank you very much to ollie and rosa and of course to dan and tom for filling in whilst i've been away gavin mate welcome back to the show how are you doing hello yeah very good thanks good to be back here on your resurgence i can hear the the baritone it's just starting to just starting to return it's like pouring liquid into my ears it's lovely I got a bit ambitious doing the post-Newcastle one. As soon as I started recording that, I was like, I shouldn't be doing this.
3:17Jack:It was physically and actually just mentally as well, trying to muster anything to talk about Tottenham losing to Newcastle at home. Whilst I'm still under the weather, I was like, what am I doing? What's going on here? When I first heard it, I thought, Jack's taken this really badly because it sounds like he's been on the whiskeys and fags for like the last eight hours. I was like, okay, okay, fine. Like, it is a serious, that's fine. I mean, I had been doing that as well, you know. Yeah, of course. NHS recommended. NHS recommended. So I guess the best way to start this one, the Forrest game, is I took some buses.
3:59Jack:I'll talk about myself, it's my podcast. I took some buses to Forrest. Did you, I'll put you on the spot going, Did you see my little, my odyssey as it was built by some? I have, I have. So I don't have an active social media account, but I do occasionally search for prominent figures on Blue Sky and you're one of those prominent figures. So I did have a little look through that thread and it looks awesome. Like, I don't know about you, but I always get this weird sense of thrill whenever I'm traveling. Often solo is like an important caveat through suburban British towns and villages. and I can't quite explain why it is but it kind of feels like this sense of I guess independence or something where you feel like you're discovering discovering something new as you're journeying up to Nottingham It's exactly that there was with this there was something and who was it that said it to me it might have been so I met Benny a guy called Benny in the stands actually at the city ground and we were talking about the fact that there's something weirdly exciting about taking something thing quite mundane and making it an adventure in a way if you think about kind of your i don't know it's the closest sort of thing to exploring something new in a way like you say it's everything's kind of familiar but it's elsewhere like there's a there's a fairly set template isn't there in britain for the for the different types of suburbia you have usually the victorian and older and you know when you get into the real countryside a bit it's usually older it's the cottages yes the things like that.
5:32Jack:We talk about the mainstream of suburbia, the majority of it begins with like Victorian townhouses and villas and stuff like that. Onto post-war, onto sort of the newer Barrett Homes type developments and things like that. Yeah, less than about them the better, really. And just the overall sort of like, as you say, the landscape changing. Like I found it fascinating, like straight away, being on a bus from Barnet towards Hatfield and just how quickly it starts to look countryside-ish. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ten minutes outside of London. And I guess Barnet is on the very, very edges of London. I mean, it's one of those places like, you know, I grew up around Kingston-upon-Thames.
6:11Jack:It's one of those places where people are like, it's not really London, even though it's technically London. They will say, I guess Barnet falls into a similar-ish kind of category where it's like, it's a bit Hertfordshire. It's a bit, what's the other one around there? One of the other counties. Yeah, I know what you mean, yeah. But it's, yeah, I don't know. It's interesting. But it was really good fun. And I was actually, I thought I was going to do this trip. And it was going to be people, look, you know, I appreciate this podcast rule the rest. Yeah, you know, people like it. People enjoy it.
6:45Jack:It's not one of the big ones. It's fairly niche. And I thought doing this type of trip, it would appeal to people who basically like my shtick and listen to the podcast to sort of know what to expect. oh it's you know jack trunk he's gonna say something whatever silly about being on a bus great fine i can i can buy into that but um yeah it seemed to sort of uh capture the imagination a bit which was which is quite nice i actually i got a message when i was on the bus around milton keen's from uh marcus buckland's radio show yeah so i ended up going on there and having a chat which was i actually kind of felt after after i did it i felt a bit embarrassed doing that really because it was just kind of like well just because it's kind of like the his the funny corner moment of the day do you know what i mean it's like it's that and in other news so his his his zany britain yeah exactly the face of quirky britain yeah we've still got that blighty spirit doing our you know the great british eccentric is still alive and well kind of thing but that was the funny thing as well actually seeing people the translate tweet function is very helpful seeing people from further afield being like this is a good one for the anglophiles this is so british nice yeah i'd love to try this when we're next i saw a few swedish people saying like we should try and do this type of thing next time we're over i think they were swedish arsenal fans or something like that but it's quite funny i think overall the one of the things that surprised me i would say the quality of buses actually considering we always moan about everything in this country The quality of buses were generally brilliant.
8:24Jack:The fact that it is actually feasible and pretty straightforward to get all the way from London to Nottingham on a fairly meagre budget was quite impressive. Basically, all of the buses were on time. There were no major delays. Maybe I got quite lucky with it. And every single place I went to, every single hub, there were tons of buses all going all over the place. It is just funny that it goes from that to then suddenly not you know as i got a bit further outside of maybe some of the bigger towns some of the bits in between you can see that like i was talking to some people in the pub so after the first night i stayed in a pub a place called artingworth or arthing i'm not sure i'm pretty sure it's artingworth which is just outside market harborough um oh yeah yeah and they were saying like you know one of the locals in there was just saying like yeah there's there's not really buses around here you have to kind of get there's like a dialer bus service that they do that will take people to the nearest bus that they all kind of chip in on if people want to go somewhere or do something we have something similar we have something similar where i am we don't have a particularly great bus service it's quite out in the sticks but we have like a volunteer service where like people in the local community will um put on like a shuttle bus effectively up and down the road going to some the major towns which in itself is quite a nice thing to do obviously it's like very a real like community-led initiative um but i've got i've got to ask you as well about the uh the tram bus thing was it in luton like i've never seen that before and yeah a great example of british engineering i couldn't i couldn't believe it like it just as you as you're pulling out of sort of like the so just outside the train station there's like a bus terminal right where you know there's loads of different buses going all over the place and it essentially just kind of it swung around a roundabout and then pretty much just went on to like a track a raised track that just looked like a tramway pretty much and it was just going back and forward down this this track no traffic no traffic jams nothing the stops along there were like tram stops like little mini train stations yeah yeah cool it just yeah it made total sense and i guess it's one of those things is Luton like Milton Keynes a fairly newer town?
10:44I don't know if it is actually I don't know if it's one of those that was built post-war because I think Milton Keynes was at the same time was like Basel in Essex and stuff one of those new towns I'm not sure if Luton I think a Luton might have been a natural evolution you know from London
10:59Jack:because it's just one of those things I wonder like how they had the space or whatever to do that and why it hasn't been implemented in more places But yeah, that was kind of weird. But I'm not going to talk about buses all day today. So you can see the threads, Twitter or on Blue Sky. Follow the journey along. Give it a read if you're interested. I did actually film all along as well. I have my little GoPro with me. I've documented the journey. So I'll be editing that over the course of this week. I mean, I think I've got to get that out a bit quicker now. I think there's a few more eyes on it.
11:34Jack:It'd be nice to seize the moment on that. You're right. you're right about capturing something 100 because i i've always had those sorts of fantasies of doing something like that or like turning up at paddington with like a ground in my pocket and picking a random destination on the train then going to a few different places you know stopping overnight with no real plans in place i think there is something like like you said at the top really like weirdly thrilling about it particularly because you start to discover these these new areas of the uk as much as like i uh i would rather not give him any more exposure or praise i know rory stewart talks a lot about walking the length of places doesn't he and like that's the only best way to actually like learn about them and understand them i think there is like a truth of that as well like if you want to see like the real the real countryside or the real real country a good way i think is just to do something like what what you were doing and how much did it cost in the end always nottingham so in terms of like the train fares should have my little notebook somewhere um roughly about 22 quid um really wow which is kind of bonkers i mean the train home was train home was 40 pounds i booked that in advance i i'm gonna i'm gonna break down all the costs and everything and i'm gonna justify various different decisions i would say ultimately if it was a cost saving exercise to nottingham at least it works out about the same really yeah all in it works out about the same versus just getting the train i looked at the train fare the night before so if i I was to buy a train ticket on the day, return to get to Nottingham and back from Tottenham.
13:06Jack:I think it was about£92,£93 or something. Yeah, yeah. So once you factored in travel, so the bus there, the train home, and like a hotel stay. Yeah. Because I wouldn't have been able to get there. I started about 5 a.m. from Tottenham. I wouldn't have been able to get there for a 3 p.m. kickoff. I think if I had gone to Nottingham in one day, I would have gotten there for about 5 or 6. So you could do it for an evening kickoff. yeah nice but and there's something great as well about staying in a room above a pub as well uh i think that's a really cool thing to do it was such because because the little town was quite it was a bit yeah it was quite cut off i would say it was it was a bit wasn't like in the middle of nowhere but relatively speaking it was quite isolated i would say and it was a very small village really um and that would that the pub really was the hub of the village so it was kind of like stepping back in time a bit because there was there were like groups of like old lads in there playing darts there were like a group of like younger people in there all having like pints around the bar chatting up the barmaid that type of thing there was you know there were little families over in the dining bit and you're sort of like this was kind of you know i i'm not trying to hark back in a sort of toxic nostalgia way but there was there was just something quite charming about it you know that that the fact that especially when you know pubs are on their asses nowadays right there are still these little community hubs where you can see that everybody is there and enjoying it and utilizing this great social resource that you know yes is it was just it was it was very nice in a quite a sad way just to be sat there on my own having a just a random chat to like a you know there was this group of old boys next to me that would go into like an air show in town and all that type of thing because i heard that they you know i could they were staying there as well i saw them checking in around the same time so i was kind of asking them what they were there for and so on and so forth so just having to chat some randoms down the pub and i wasn't even drunk i was on antibiotics so you know oh wow yeah but i think all in all mate just on on on it you know there's the whole point of like being in transit as well is quite nice.
15:20Jack:I'm kind of honest, I like the shoulder seasons. I like spring. I like autumn. I like the in-between. There is something to be said for, and I was thinking about this, my journey home, I found miserable, even though it was shorter, getting on a train in Nottingham and just sitting on a hot train for two and a bit hours, fairly cramped in, kind of disconnected from the world around me, the changing scenery. Sure, you can look out the window and see a few fields and stuff and a few towns whizzing by yeah but this way hopping from town to town even in some moments are only getting 10-15 minutes just to have a quick little look around soak it in seeing all these different places i've always seen on the map that otherwise i probably unless it was for like a work thing or whatever i would never end up going to any of these places in the uk it was quite nice just to step foot in these places and as you say also travel through the back roads seeing where people live getting more sense of all of these different places um as opposed to like you say just zipping into a town center on a train seeing yeah costa starbucks mcdonald's all that type of thing and then getting back home again or whatever it's um it's quite interesting it definitely is i think we all think that like the the places that we live is the same everywhere basically you know i think that like you say a lot of people have a close-ish local town or maybe maybe city where there are a lot of familiar surroundings but actually you don't have to go far away to see a very different way of life i suppose and i think that you know england is quite a small country to all intents and purposes but actually the the differences between like you know i was thinking for example like birmingham and like out into stratford upon Laven or Warwickshire are massive.
17:07I think that it's easy to fall into the same sort of thinking you live in this little bubble. Whereas actually, I think that the reality is obviously a lot more complicated. It's a good way, I think, to try and get a full picture, I suppose, of how things really are. Before the season even kicks off, soccer fans are already making predictions.
17:28Jack:Who wins the league? Who qualifies for Europe? And who's lifting the trophy at season's end? On Calci, America's number one prediction market platform, you're trading against peers in a live market, meaning there's no house. And as the probability changes, you can buy in and out of your position. For a limited time, download the Calci app and use code CUP26 to get$10 when you trade 10. K-A-L-S-H-I, Calci. Trade the beautiful game. 18 plus only restrictions and eligibility requirements apply. Event contract trading involves risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Prices, values, and available markets may differ from those mentioned.
18:00Jack:For more information, see calci.com slash regulatory. If your business runs on five different apps, 12 browser tabs, and one spreadsheet that everyone's afraid to touch, it's probably time for Odoo. Odoo is an all-in-one business management software that connects every part of your business into one powerful, easy-to-use platform. So instead of wasting time switching between disconnected systems, your entire business works together in real time. Your team moves faster, your data stays accurate, and you can actually focus on growing your business. Let one unified system run your entire business.
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19:26Jack:right tools to keep your projects moving. So look out for it on YouTube and all that type of stuff. Tottenham versus Nottingham Forest. So ultimately that was the grand occasion. I will say I know the internet and Maranakis has meant that we have to completely hate Nottingham Forest. Every single fan base we hate, blah, blah, blah. Being completely truthful, I've always had a bit of a soft spot for Nottingham Forest in a way. It's the second game I ever went to at White Hart Lane, Tottenham against Forest. We lost to them. So it should carry more of a sting in the tail than it does. But I think the thing that has always interested me about them is when I was a kid, they were in the Premier League for a couple of years maybe but then for the most part they'd been, you know, whatever, Championship, League One.
20:15Jack:Division One, I should say. Championship or Division One. But there was something about the idea of them being like a Champions League winning team. A team that had won the league not too long ago this glittering history huge club really with well supported big fan base in quite a big part of the country you know midlands one of the big hubs i was like they are they are clearly a massive club and so whenever i used to play like championship manager back in the day latterly football manager forest would always be the team i'd pick when it wasn't spurs because i kind of fancied the challenge of can we get forest back to being a champions league yeah team yeah yeah um so i've always had that and just i just think maybe maybe it's just a time i grew up when football because i i do feel i do feel that the internet has made football way more tribal football is tribal inherently as it is but i think it's tribal on like quite a pathetic level now and i definitely i play into it we all play yeah yeah but it's like it's it's on such a pathetic level now where there is no redeemable features about anybody that isn't your football team right but But I do think when I was growing up, Forest were a well-regarded side.
21:23Jack:And I think people always had a bit of... I think most people had a bit of a second team, you know, as a throwaway type approach for a club like Forest because Clough, because of all the history and the majesty. So actually going to the City Ground, it's the first time I've ever been. I did feel the sense of occasion, really. I did like it. Benny, who I spoke to whilst I was there as well, actually pointed out that I think... one or a couple of the stands were designed and built by the same people that built white heart lane the the last one yeah i think i've heard that yeah i think i've heard that before so i think i think their brian clough stand is the same as the old west stand i think i think they're the same design yeah um and then suddenly when i sat there looking i was like oh yeah you're right so yeah yeah being there again in that old box stadium um you know when they're singing mulligan time at the start it's pretty cool you know it's very loud but like with most premier league crowds as soon as the game wasn't really going their way it was quiet and spurs were loud and i feel in charge um and i guess it's sort of it's a long-winded way of saying that there is a lot of hostility in this fixture spurs have come off the back of two losses thus far this season gavin going away to the city grounds and we'll get into the manner of the game and all that type of thing and it's not all positive, but still overall, a few days down the line now, Duster's settled.
22:50Jack:Getting a point at a place where we got battered last year against a club, Maranakis, all that type of stuff that actively has Tottenham on their dartboard right now. I feel like we were much the better team and I'm happy to just have a point on the board, really. Yeah, 100%. I think I feel relatively positive now that Duster's settled. You've always got to remove yourself from that initial emotional reaction to any football match, I think, and then view it with maybe a slightly longer lens. And I felt like they were incredibly competitive. Like Nottingham Forest, you know what kind of size you're going to be up against.
23:28They're really good in the duels, you know, not that dissimilar to Brentford, I guess, in that sense. And also, like you say, they've battered us consistently, like most teams have, I guess, over the last two years. the chance to actually I think kind of battle to a point maybe should stand us in I think for quite good stead for the next couple of games there's definitely been steady improvement I think over the last three fixtures Brentford was a bit of an aberration, it had real like back to work after a summer holiday vibe Brentford like total chaos, I felt like a lot of people didn't really know their jobs they seemed to be quite confused and you know it looked like that we didn't really have a clear understanding of what we were meant to be doing over those 90 minutes.
24:15But I think at Newcastle as well, there were some really good passages of play. We lost our heads a bit. I know when they scored, a lot of people have said that. But again, I think we saw another step up against Nottingham Forest and we seemed to dominate the ball. I thought that we were pretty strong centrally, seemed to compete and were quite aggressive as well. And I think last season, I think we won our first two games. I think we got off to a really good start anyway under Frank. And a lot of people were pointing to the data and saying like, oh, actually Spurs are overperforming here, given the quality of chances they're creating and everything like that.
24:55I think the opposite is true now. And actually, I think our XG, not XG on target, which I know has been spoken about, But XG against Newcastle and Nottingham Forest was higher than theirs. And so I think that we've probably been a little bit unlucky. And as long as those things sort of keep ticking up in the right direction, I don't really think you can go far wrong. I think that I left that result feeling reasonably happy. I think that, you know, we've got every chance. If we, you know, put a couple of wins together back to back, Everything changes, doesn't it? Especially this early in the season.
25:32You can easily rock it up the table. So I think that we should be, I think, quite pleased really with how we performed.
25:40Jack:You spoke about us dominating the midfield, which I think is spot on. We absolutely did. We cut off their supply lines. There were a couple of surging runs from that Schlager player in the first half that I think made us quite uncomfortable. He looked kind of promising. But I think we largely nullified Morgan Gibbs-White. He was just, for Glasner's sort of grandstanding beforehand, and we'll get onto that, it felt like, you know, you might have an idea as to what it is that De Zerbe wants Tottenham to do, but I don't really think you've fully engaged with or managed to be able to stop what it is that we try to do.
26:14Jack:Yeah, playing out from the back isn't always the most comfortable, but I feel that we were largely on top of them. And as I say, Morgan Gibbs-White, who was kind of the point man in that sort of advanced position, snapping into tackles, harrying, all that type of thing. We largely played around him and he was, it felt like his role was reduced to being that, being the terrier, as opposed to being allowed a bit of freedom to play with the ball and to try and hurt Tottenham, get into spaces and all that type of thing. So for all of, as I say, for all of Glasner's grandstanding, I think maybe he got into his own head a bit too much and thought too much about Tottenham, as opposed to what it is that Forrest could be doing.
26:53Jack:But that is also kind of Glasner's thing. he is that Thomas Franke type manager where it is much more reactive. It is much more, you know, it's about premium opportunities. It's about defending. It's about pressing and about, you know, trying to hit teams on the break. And I think it's whatever, you know, if that's kind of the way Forrest wants to go, fine. It just seems like a bit of a waste of some of the talent that they have in their team. I think we've all sort of maybe given one eye to Oliver Glasner before when Tottenham have been in the hunt of a new manager but I would say watching that performance on the weekend, I'm very glad he came nowhere near the Tottenham job, personally speaking Yeah, I've never been up for that like you said, I think there are so many comparisons with Frank as well it's quite defensive, isn't it?
27:40I get that at the moment there's this premium placed on high quality chances, you know, turnovers high up the pitch, trying to create these sort of false counter-attacks and things. I get that, but it didn't work for us previously. It obviously didn't work for them, particularly at the weekend. What did he say before the game then? Sorry, I missed that.
27:59Jack:So he basically said it was to the effect of you know exactly what Roberto Di Zerbi is going to do because he does the same thing in every single game. It's very easy. It's very easy to decipher the way Tottenham are going to play and the way they're going to approach this match because Roberto Di Zerbi does the same thing every time. and so I mean let's talk about it now I had this sort of further down the line but you know I sort of took that initially as well he's seen Stellini say something not too dissimilar when he was in charge of Spurs and De Zerbi was in charge of Brighton if you recall I think Stellini said De Zerbi's done a good job but he's built on the hard work of Graham Potter I think it was something to that effect and De Zerbi took real exception to that ended up getting sent off in the game exploded did all that type of thing and so there's that part of me wondering if glasner if this is like mind games if this is right deserve he is a techie character spurs have lost two in a row let's just let's get to him let's get to the emotional heart of this and distract them yeah but looking online glasner has done this a few times he's he's apparently done it with pep before um and he did it with somebody else one of one of the other it might be an arteta or somebody i'm not sure yeah um yeah so this is kind of a glasner thing it seems to be what you know what the kids call aura maxing where glasner is trying to sort of rub shoulders with managers that he sees as being good or talented and say i can get the better of this guy so it might the point is it might not be an entirely kind of top them thing but that might be a consideration into itself yeah promoting is only selects a little bit as well exactly and he very much seems like that type of guy look you know for all my sort of digging him he's obviously a good manager you know he's yeah he's won the Europa League with Frankfurt it was the conference league with Palace wasn't it yeah conference league in the FA Cup obviously Charity Shield you know he knows how to galvanize a team of players and maybe that shtick maybe that you know kind of for want of a better word shithousing is yeah part of that creating the siege mentality and all that type of thing.
30:09Jack:I'm just simply saying that I think Spurs have tried to win at all costs and we're sick of that. I don't want to see Tottenham play football in the way that Oliver Glasner approached this game against us on the weekend because had things gone a bit differently, I think Spurs would and maybe should have won that game. But let's nod back to the midfield dominance because, I mean, look, man of the match clearly was Rodrigo Bentancur. Yeah, yeah, 100%. absolutely standout performance um i mean how much of this do you think comes down to because he has been injury free for a while now lest we forget how good he was before he had two career threatening injuries and how much of it is also now actually having a player like tonali alongside him that is now giving bentancur the freedom to as i say occupy spaces actually think about playing the ball forwards as opposed to just pretty much sweeping up all the time even though he was doing that quite a bit in the second half it felt like he had a bit more freedom to roam in the first half in particular and to affect play if you like do a lot of the things I've often really lauded Pat Matassar for being available for a pass carrying the ball forwards offloading at the right time yeah he's obviously a talented player I think it could be a number of things I mean first and foremost could it be also a level of competition now?
31:32We've always, as a team, struggled to give our best players true competition. I think that's always been to our detriment. You've always then seen players slowly decline, I think, as they've become more comfortable at the club. I wonder whether, as he saw Tonali Fernandes, potentially Gallagher, I suppose, back in January as well, join. He thought, you know, my place is under threat here. Actually, I want to show these kids what I'm about. and also within the system now i feel like we're not facing wave after wave of devastating attacks um he obviously is benefiting from us being on the ball a bit more and somebody like tinali alongside him like you said has only got to make him feel a bit more secure probably a bit more secure in his decision making probably a bit more confident as well um it's been quite a while since we've had a midfield pairing that i think are both comfortable on the ball i think it's It's been a really long time.
32:30He's actually quite a technical player, I think, but he's massive, isn't he, Benton Kerr? He's a lot bigger than you think. He's very good in the air. So in many respects, when you think about it, it feels like he has all of the attributes to be a top-quality Premier League midfielder, particularly in this current era. So, you know, maybe after the injury troubles as well, all of these things have come together to galvanise him. And I actually think he's our most important midfielder at the moment. I think in the first three games this season, I think he's looked great in all three. And he also came back and did a great job at the back end of last season as well in incredibly trying circumstances.
33:13So I know he hasn't escaped criticism from you in the past, Jack. But I actually think that he's really showing his worth and has done over the last three or four months.
33:25Jack:Yeah. Tonali, where are you at on him, mate? Because I think this was stand out his best performance in a top shot. I mean, look, it's a very small sample size right now. So I don't think we can draw too many conclusions from it. Fall is the perfect time to refresh and reorganize your space. At the Home Depot, find power tools and tool sets starting at$50 to help tackle DIY projects, home updates, and more. Whether you're drilling brackets to support new shelving or sharpening your hedge trimmer blade with an angle grinder, The Home Depot has the tools you need to check projects off your list.
34:02Jack:Shop Labor Day savings at The Home Depot and gear up for fall projects with the right tools to keep your projects moving. Every game day you show up for your team. Now it's your time. We go deep! We go deep! Ask your prescriber about WeGoV, semaglutide injection 2.4 milligrams, a GLP-1. Call 1-833-4-WEGOV or visit wegovi.com to view the medication guide and to learn more about WeGoV. Why wait? WeGoV! This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome? That's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks.
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34:56Jack:Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required compatibility and availability varies 18+. I think people struggle with the fact that he's perhaps not that flashy. You think of spending£100 million on an Italian maestro, if you like, and it conjures up images straight away of Pirlo, of Totti, of Baggio, like an expressive, flairful, creative type player. Whereas, if anything, Tonali is maybe even more in the Gattuso type mould of things. Yeah, yeah, definitely. He's a rugby player. I think it had been sort of lost when he actually got how big of a lad he is.
35:38Jack:He's a unit. Yeah, he's huge, isn't he? Yeah, he's a big old boy. and he didn't give Forrest a moment to breathe at all in that game. There was one moment in particular when he just did not give up the fight. It was kind of a sequence of nitpicking between him and I can't remember who it was on the Forrest side but he ended up driving him basically all the way towards the corner flag. Yeah, I remember that. Was that in the first half? Yeah, and just did not give it up. Yeah, it was a battle. yeah um i just think it's it's it's easy to sort of sit here and say oh god we spent 100 million pounds on that when adam warden elliot anderson whoever was going for a similar amount of money but it's one of those things to me where you're like partly again you have to shift into focus the amount that people spend on players is made up it's made up numbers it's not really relevant to a certain degree but also what tonali is doing is something that we have clearly lacked for two or three seasons teams have run through us at will in the past two or three seasons yeah now they don't seem to be able to do that and it's i i guess the point i'm trying to make is do you think his importance to the team will grow in terms of our understanding of how important he is to the team as opposed to being because I still I want to say and I think it's more and I'm not like firing shots or anything like that but I think more of the sort of the tactical accounts and I'm sure you all know who I mean many of the big names I think they all seem to view Tenali as a bit of a not a wasted purchase but maybe a luxury something to keep Deserby happy whereas I'm starting to question if that's perhaps undervaluing his ability and actually his importance that the role he is playing you know is to talk yeah yeah it sounds like what you're trying to say is that if he was just a bit more handsome and a bit slighter he'd be getting a much better ride yeah exactly yeah um i think with his his build it's really interesting that because that is that he is a naturally really stocky guy isn't he it's not like he spent hours in the gym i don't think although i'm sure he does do that he obviously naturally has that kind of physique and there's been a couple of occasions when we saw against Newcastle actually as well where he's he's committed to this like driving run through the pitch like I think he's one of those players that sees a little gap and can also burst through it he's actually quite powerful and a lot quicker I think that some people might give him credit for I think in in the first couple of games I actually think he looked a bit a bit nervous I wonder whether he did feel the weight of expectation on him a little bit because you know it's easy to dismiss that and say well you know he's a player in his peak and as a 100 million pound footballer he should be able to to embrace that and and psychologically you know get on board with it but actually you don't know how people react to those sorts of levels of expectation and it definitely in the first 10 minutes of the game against Newcastle he was a little nervous and there were a few misplaced passes I think it took him a little while to get get into the game um against forest you're right it was was by far his best performance um i think sometimes there's a bit of edgar david's about him as well um shout i think i think that he's he's got like that that about him and he um i think he'll be by the end of the season incredibly important player to us but you know it looked like he also might have spent a little a little too long on the the past from red wine in in pre-season um i thought that he looked a little bit a little bit slow yeah um i mean you know who am i to chastise the professional sportsman for drinking drinking red wine and eating pasta um but yeah overall it's incredibly encouraging he's definitely a better passer than a lot of people give him credit for i think you've said that as well and so maybe maybe i definitely think he is yeah yeah but he's he's a better i think all-round footballer and I was listening to I can't it might have been um I can't remember it might be on the Guardian Football Weekly and they were talking about his performances previously at AC Milan and you know like dominating midfields at 22-23 being the the highest prospect in in Italy and it just takes a while sometimes to also settle in to get up to speed he obviously had that lengthy time away from football as well so um I find I find the whole thing really encouraging.
40:13I don't really feel any kind of nervousness that he might be a flopper or anything. I think he's too good a player and too tenacious to fail.
40:22Jack:Does Herbie said before this game that Matis Fernandes was not the right type of player for this fixture, essentially, that Gallagher knows this game? I mean, it's been highlighted as a fairly strange omission, considering that Fernandes was part of a West Ham team that actually battered Nottingham Forrester at the City Round last season. I haven't fact-checked that, but somebody said it on Twitter, so there we go. What do you make of that, mate? Because there was some talk before the game that it might be more that Fernandes was perhaps carrying a bit of a knock, and it was part of Tottenham's new risk-averse strategy in managing injuries, but yeah, as I say, De Zerbi sort of came out with that after the game.
41:06Jack:And I guess to go on from that point as well, with Gallagher playing you know as he said I think he I personally I feel that Gallagher was pretty good and yeah I have dug him out quite a bit in the past I thought he was pretty good in that game but it is clear that when he does play we we lack that creative impetus which you know will lead us to our 0.0 xg for this game I mean how do you feel about that position I guess because to me right now Tonali and Bentancur are pretty much nailed on so the question is who plays alongside them I think the majority of us right now would like to see Fernandes playing as the third part of that of that midfield three but I guess also isn't this what kind of football is about now you need to have different players for different occasions without tinkering too much what's the balance yeah like I was going to say that I think that in the past maybe teams have had a set first 11 they've known their their best 11 and they've they've tried to not react too much to changes that the opposition have made and just trust in their own ability and tactical plan.
42:10I think we see that a lot with Pochettino, actually. He basically, mostly out of necessity, just had a set first 11, didn't he, and stuck to the same way of playing. He's such an interesting player, Gallagher, because managers seem to really love him. You know, he's been popular everywhere he's been. Not always popular with the fans. He, again, isn't very flashy in what he does. he is incredibly tenacious and is a good presser and runs all day and all of that stuff and so I understand the appeal in a game like this and I do think that we we need to be accepting of rotations and maybe just trust in the Zerbi from time to time like it seems like a slightly odd omission granted at the time but then fernandez is still getting up to speed um i almost don't think it's it should be over analyzed in a way because he did he did pretty well um and you know you know what you're going to get from him every time um he's quite like a meat and potatoes player i think isn't he but i also i also don't um don't think it was necessarily the wrong decision because we were kind of vindicated like you know we came away from with a draw you know like you said we we keep getting battered by Forrest and so shoring up the center of the pitch seems to have had a pretty significant impact um I think the creativity and things will come at a later date you know he's never going to be that kind of James Madison type like number 10 but he does offer something else um even if it means that it's not really dynamic in a flashy sort of sense.
43:52It's sort of a degree of dynamism in a slightly different sort of pulling a china shop sense, I guess.
43:58Jack:Yeah. Savio, we've seen we've seen a good performance, I think. Can I say that? You know, it's not perfect. There's still room for improvement, but I am massively encouraged by his part of the team, aren't you? Yeah, yeah, so to see. Did you see his reaction when he got substituted like the what? Me? Surely not. But I quite like that. I quite like the fact he wants to be on the pitch and he wants to contribute. Again, it's all pretty encouraging. He can't do anything about his price tag. I think that there's obviously a huge amount of outside noise at the moment from a lot of people saying that Spurs have spent all this money and haven't yet even scored a goal.
44:43And that is a bitter pill to swallow. It's a really difficult thing to, I think, face up to because it's just really annoying hearing that from rival fans and everybody was so desperate to to do that and I think Savio exemplifies that because on paper his you know his goals assist record wasn't fantastic you know there are a number of reasons potentially for that that have already been spoken about um but he is at the end of the day a really exciting really good player you know he looks like a really technical winger that the sort of player that we haven't had, I don't know, honestly, like maybe in about 10 years, maybe longer.
45:22And so I think you have to be, you have to give him a little bit of time. But I know it was only against Charlton, you saw what you could do there as well. And, you know, he's exactly the kind of footballer that I enjoy watching, that I enjoy being at Tottenham. And so for that, I'm willing to be incredibly optimistic.
45:41Jack:And that's part of it, right? Like, again, I know that everything has to be qualified through sort of quantifiable metrics and stuff. But isn't that, I don't know, isn't that part of the problem? We keep complaining about the fact that football isn't as fun anymore and all this type of thing. As I've sort of said before, I'm sure if you ran a lot of Aaron Lennon's numbers through the cold, hard prism of the way in which data is collected now, it would probably show that he wasn't the best player. But the majority of us that saw Aaron Lennon playing for Tottenham have nothing but fond memories of him.
46:16Jack:Yeah, it's crazy. And just that effect on the team. And I think that's, I don't know, there's just something inherently kind of Lennon-coded about Savio, really, that I'm just excited to have back at Tottenham. And I think, look, on a more sort of real and less wistful level, I do think his threat does peg teams back. It causes him to be concerned. If you've got him bombing down one wing and Kudus will tell down the other, and we'll get on to tell but still it is a handful for opposition teams. It means that the low block approach that has worked so well over the past few years to nullify Tottenham perhaps hopefully fingers crossed won't work as well anymore and we'll have more fun we'll have more fun watching a player like him running at players going one-on-one with players cutting inside having shots versus Spurs just constantly trying to spam balls into the box as we've seen for the past few years.
47:15And I was watching Everton yesterday and watching Brennan Johnson playing for them. And I thought, man, there is so much familiarity here with what he was doing. You know, often failing to be his man, took up a couple of good, good sort of positions and then didn't really know what to do with the ball. And like, you know, we've seen a lot of that. I think not just to single him out, but amongst all of our attacking players for the last five years, six years. I saw Vincent Janssen hit a hat trick yesterday by the way on his debut
47:47Jack:on his debut and it was Portland Timbers Portland Timbers isn't it I think yeah it was it was their first ever hat trick as well as a club was it really yeah getting back getting the gang back together fall is the perfect time to refresh and reorganize your space at the Home Depot find power tools and tool sets starting at$50 to help tackle DIY projects, home updates, and more. Whether you're drilling brackets to support new shelving or sharpening your hedge trimmer blade with an angle grinder, The Home Depot has the tools you need to check projects off your list. Shop Labor Day savings at The Home Depot and gear up for fall projects with the right tools to keep your projects moving.
48:33Jack:Every game day, you show up for your team. Now, it's your time. We go beat! We, we, go, V. Ask your prescriber about WeGoV, semaglutide injection 2.4 milligrams, a GLP-1. Call 1-833-4-WEGOV or visit wegovy.com to view the medication guide and to learn more about WeGoV. Why wait? We, go, V. This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it.
49:19Jack:Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required compatibility and availability varies 18+. so yeah like i think i think that we we've obviously made massive improvements in in those areas and and i think that it is it is gonna pay pay dividends in the end because yeah the idea about savinho kudis both in the same team is is a really exciting prospect i think well i mean let's talk i mean kudis i think he did he did come on and he looked he looked good um he's definitely getting up to speed but still again his just his sort of his pace power his tenacity um i think some of his sort of his technical trickery i think some people said he was trying a bit too hard i didn't really get that impression for our from where i was sat i thought he was largely really good it's a yeah be a joy to have him back in the side um properly but tell has come under a lot of criticism it was trying too hard yeah well that's it i mean it was a far from vintage performance from Mattis Tell.
50:22Jack:Where do you think it goes wrong for him, mate? Because he was standout in pre-season. Looked really, really good and there was a lot of optimism coming into the season. A lot of excitement about what it could mean for him. But it just hasn't transferred, has it? I know. I feel a bit sad about that, to be honest. I was really bigging him up in pre-season. He just... I know everyone's said this, but it is like his decision-making is just... so bad it always he always seems to make the or take the wrong option but he still he's he's still quite threatening and i think the other side of it is that he does still draw opposition defenders to him like quite often teams double up on him so he obviously he obviously is earmarked as a bit of a threat i just wonder whether he is so desperate to impress like you say almost like trying too hard in a way and I wonder whether he needs to make some quicker decisions do you remember how Sonny sometimes used to be at his best when he wasn't even thinking about it he just he would just make it make like you know a snapshot or a snap decision and when he had time to think about it he sometimes seemed to panic a little not really panic but just just make the wrong decision and I wonder whether there's something in that with Tell where he needs to be coached and he's got a fantastic left foot or right foot even excuse me so I wonder whether he needs to try to you know start using his instincts a little bit more you know he doesn't always need to beat two or three men and try and um you know cross you know perfectly into the box i think that you know if he uses some of his kind of instinctive talent and because he is quite raw as well he might he might be more successful i don't know i think look i think one of the main things as well as you know mudrick came on and looked miles off it so i think for everything that for all the criticism of tell I just think sort of be careful what you wish for I think he he looks still looks like a far more serviceable player than the Madrid did and this is not some yeah this isn't some kind of agenda against Madrid or anything like that it's just simply saying that I just didn't you know I didn't I didn't think he was up too much I think he is way way off it and that's what you'd expect from a player who's been out for 20 plus months I guess um if you did want to have that agenda that's absolutely fine as well.
52:40Jack:Exactly. Exactly. I can say whatever I want. I can say what I like. But I think for the most part, you know, I think we sort of covered it, mate. I think Spurs were good and I don't, you know, right now, I just think there's maybe perhaps a bit of a realignment that needs to be had. We are a team that has, and people don't like this. People say, where's the ambition? It's because of mentality like this. We're in this position. But we finished 17th twice in a row. There are no easy games in the Premier League really. Every team is good. Every team spends loads of money. To go away to Forrest and get a point when it does look like we are still a work in progress, I would choose to take the positives from that.
53:22Jack:And it doesn't mean that there isn't stuff to work on. It doesn't mean that we don't need to create more chances for Mamouche. Shame he missed that one opportunity if it's gone a whisker the other side of the post. Fine. Forrest, you know, I can't really even be bothered to go into there. Clear and obvious. The handball stuff, to be honest, VAR. It's a handball. he handballed it into the goal that's it I can't be I've done enough about the media conspiracy against Tottenham I just think overall Spurs were good and we can just be happier with that right? Yeah totally and as somebody said to me once like don't hope it was easier just hope to be better I think that you know it's not going to get any easier in the Premier League but you know we can definitely still improve and I think that when we do as well it's going to be incredibly satisfying to start you know hitting back with Venom rival fans that have suggested already that you know we're going to be relegation fodder this fodder this season gavin mate i think that's a nice place to bring to bring things to a close um i appreciate you welcoming me back into the into the bosom of podcasting i can feel my voice it's starting to strain a little bit now so i don't want to push it too much but thank you mate and uh yeah if you have if you've enjoyed the show why not consider signing up for patreon patreon.com slash RTR pod.
54:34Jack:You'll get first access to all that bus stuff I was talking about. If that, if that, if that's excited you, but other than that, yeah, leave ratings, reviews, all that type of thing onto the next one up the spurs. Cheers, Kevin. Cheers, mate.
54:55Jack:Fall is the perfect time to refresh and reorganize your space at the Home Depot find power tools and tool sets starting at$50 to help tackle DIY projects, home updates, and more. Whether you're drilling brackets to support new shelving or sharpening your hedge trimmer blade with an angle grinder, the Home Depot has the tools you need to check projects off your list. Shop Labor Day savings at the Home Depot and gear up for fall projects with the right tools to keep your projects moving. Every game day you show up for your team. Now, it's your time. We Go V! We Go V! Ask your prescriber about We Go V.
55:38Jack:Semaglutide Injection 2.4mg, a GLP-1. Call 1-833-4-WEGOV or visit wegovy.com to view the medication guide and to learn more about We Go V. Why wait? We Go V!
From the publisher
Jack is back behind the mic! After recovering from throat surgery, he joins Gavin to recount his viral away-day experience travelling from Tottenham to Nottingham ONLY using public buses.
Attention then turns to the pitch, where Spurs finally stopped the rot against Nottingham Forest with a largely controlled performance. We break down Rodrigo Bentancur's standout display, exploring how an injury-free run and Sandro Tonali's combative presence helped him thrive in midfield. We also discuss Conor Gallagher's impressive outing, whether the online hate he receives is forced, and why the omission of Mateus Fernandes felt strange given De Zerbi's pre-match comments.
Elsewhere, we examine Oliver Glasner's pre-game mind games and debate whether De Zerbi's emotional volatility is becoming a concern. Finally, we praise Savio for getting up to speed and ask where it is going wrong for Mathys Tel amidst unwarranted abuse.
Theme is Ghost Cat by Gillen
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