In short
England’s World Cup win at the Azteca vs Mexico, World Cup tournament narratives (altitude, refereeing, FIFA decisions), then Tottenham Hotspur transfer talk—especially De Zerbi-era ambition and signings.
Guest backgrounds
Gavin (podcaster; Spurs fan; discusses his voice after matches; watches World Cup despite being under the weather). Co-host “Gavin” is addressed by another host (“mate”); both are England/football-focused commentators.
Key claims
England’s Azteca performance was historic and heroic, with media overblowing altitude; England looked underdog-like and improved after a poor group stage. FIFA’s Balogun red-card decision is harsh but rules-based, and tournament noise/“Americanization” claims are overstated. Tottenham’s summer spending signals a serious reset: Tonali + Fernandes could make Spurs’ midfield among the Premier League’s best; De Zerbi wants to “finish first” and win the league.
Notable examples
Jude Bellingham’s late “flowers” for Jed Spence; Anthony Gordon’s standout vs Mexico; Argentina vs Cabo Verde; France vs Paraguay; Ronaldo alleged PR-agency attacks on Messi; Spurs links to Raffaele Liao/Croupi and Marmoush; Kulusevski injury recovery hopes; Romero potentially embracing De Zerbi.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOReflections on the England Game
2:25 to 3:16
Discussing the recent England match and its significance.
“And if I was, you know, then I'd be staying up.”
Cultural Impact of the Azteca Stadium
3:16 to 4:28
Exploring the historical significance of Azteca for England fans.
“I think it's been totally unfounded as well.”
Kane's Performance and Future Hopes
4:28 to 6:40
Analyzing Harry Kane's impact and hopes for the World Cup.
“Yeah, I really don't think he's been that bad.”
Personal Connections to the England Team
6:40 to 7:49
Hosts share their emotional connections to the England squad.
“So it was concert, concert, like he was almost dead at the end of that game.”
The Ups and Downs of National Pride
7:49 to 8:44
Debating the mixed feelings of supporting England as Spurs fans.
“I really want that moment for him, of him lifting the trophy and being immortalized in that way because he deserves it.”
Previewing the Next Matches
8:44 to 10:35
Looking ahead to upcoming matches and discussing team strengths.
“Blind with the sort of, I guess, the by proxy glory that we get seeing like, he's Tottenham's boy, isn't he?”
Overall World Cup Experience
10:35 to 14:03
Reflecting on the overall enjoyment and drama of the World Cup.
“even though they just beat in Brazil, you know?”
World Cup Reflections and England's Chances
14:03 to 16:01
Discussing the impact of the World Cup and England's potential performance.
“think it hasn't helped that there's been all this sort of america 250 celebrations at the same time which is showing all the worst of crass American consumerist culture.”
Tournament Play and Team Dynamics
17:41 to 23:14
Analyzing team performances and strategies in the current tournament.
“And the way they stepped up, especially like Anthony Gordon was phenomenal.”
Ronaldo's Legacy and Controversies
23:18 to 27:00
Exploring Ronaldo's career, controversies, and the impact on football.
“Right now, and it sounds sort of ridiculous to say, I'm sort of more worried about them from an England perspective than I am France.”
Show all 18 chapters
Tottenham Hotspur Transfer Speculations
27:01 to 28:00
Discussing the latest Tottenham transfer news and player signings.
Excitement Surrounding New Signings
28:00 to 30:52
Discussion about the excitement and implications of signing Tonali and Fernandes.
“It is the perfect getaway under the Mediterranean sun.”
Analysis of Squad Changes and Impact
31:30 to 36:18
In-depth discussion on the impact of new players on the team's dynamics and performance.
“I mean, there have been so many over the years that we haven't really combated, I don't think.”
Future Aspirations and Club Identity
36:18 to 42:01
Exploration of Tottenham's ambitions for the season and their identity under new management.
“I love as well that we've gone, right, we're just going to buy the two most progressive ball-playing defenders in the league, basically.”
Tottenham's Ambitious Future
42:01 to 45:53
Explore Tottenham's renewed optimism and aspirations for the upcoming season.
“not just to pull away from being a 17th place consecutive finishing side, but actually to be a side that thinks, hang on, we've got a proper manager now that's making the right noises.”
Tottenham's Ambitious Future
45:55 to 46:59
Explore Tottenham's renewed optimism and aspirations for the upcoming season.
“Hey, it's Bill from the Bill Simmons podcast.”
Tottenham's Ambitious Future
47:08 to 47:35
Explore Tottenham's renewed optimism and aspirations for the upcoming season.
“Listening to this podcast instead of doom scrolling, smart move.”
Financial Strategy and Spurs' Evolution
47:36 to 54:55
Discuss Tottenham's financial strategy and the path to becoming a top club.
“Every good burger needs a layer of perfectly melty cheese and thick, rich ketchup.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00If you're a small business owner, you'll know just what it's like to be the chief everything officer. HR, payroll, employee benefits. Well, Gusto can do all of that for you. Gusto is online payroll and benefits software built for small businesses. It's all in one, remote friendly and incredibly easy to use. It's quick and simple to switch to Gusto. Just transfer your existing data to get up and running fast. Try Gusto today at gusto.com forward slash locked on soccer and get three months free when you run your first payroll. That's gusto.com forward slash locked on soccer. The world's biggest soccer tournament has arrived and you can trade the entire tournament on Calci.
0:38On Calci, you can trade every match from the opening stage all the way to the final. On Calci, you're trading against peers in a live market, meaning there's no house. And as the probability changes, you can buy in and out of your position. For a limited time, download the CalShe app and use code CUP26 to get$10 when you trade 10. K-A-L-S-H-I CalShe. Trade the beautiful game. 18 plus only restrictions and eligibility requirements apply. Event contract trading involves risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Prices, values, and available markets may differ from those mentioned. For more information, see calshe.com slash regulatory.
1:08The entire summer of soccer is on prize picks. All 48 countries in every matchup. And if you rep your side before the round of 16 on prize picks, you can win a trip to the finals in New York. It's the biggest tournament ever, which means there's even more opportunities to cash in while you root for your favorite national sides and global soccer stars. Download the app today and use code CUP26 to get$50 instantly in lineups when you play your first$5. Download the app today and use code CUP26 to get$50 instantly in lineups when you play your first$5. PrizePix, America's number one sports picks app.
2:02Jack:hello everyone welcome back to rule the roost podcasts welcome to everybody that did stay up and watching then last night gavin welcome back mate you you didn't stay up did you didn't no So, yeah, I imagine this wasn't probably a particularly popular podcast slot, was it, this morning? Is that because you're not patriotic enough? Is that what it comes down to, ultimately? Yeah, I'm not putting enough flags on my lamppost outside my house. And if I was, you know, then I'd be staying up. No, no, I had to be up early this morning anyway. And I did catch up with most of it, to be honest. um I've also actually been feeling a bit under the weather uh the last couple of days which you might be able to hear in my voice so I woke up about three half three checked my phone and I assumed that the game would be nearly finished by then but was sort of very confused in a feverish way about what was going on and why it wasn't over yet I think it was three one at that point or maybe three two and then I had these like weird kind of in and out of consciousness dreams about what the score was actually uh going to be including one where Georgia Stanway scored the winner so i don't think that that was i realized when we come that must have been inaccurate so it was probably i don't know i don't know if there's a level of recency bias to this but i think it's the greatest england game i've ever seen i really i'm not i'm not trying to rub it in it was yeah the setting you know the azteca all that type of stuff the the narrative around it just the aesthetic of the stadium the history behind it and just the actual like nature of the game um was was incredible it was incredible it was incredible yes long live jude bellingham who i don't know if you if you've seen so the the current host of you from the lane kate mason um posted out after the game a clip of essentially jude bellingham searching for jed spence throughout the crowd of players and just making sure to you know give him his flowers as it were putting a real right yeah putting a great last ditch tackle and everything and And again, I think for me, it's another one of those sort of, it's another one that signifies, isn't it, that the narratives do permeate to the players.
4:07Jack:Because it says to me that it's not been lost on them, that Jed Spence has become the scapegoat of this World Cup, which, you know, it's shocking to learn, isn't it, that the black Muslim player is the one that becomes the scapegoat, you know, to be sort of childish about it. I think it's been totally unfounded as well. I don't think I really... Yeah, I really don't think he's been that bad. I think he's been pretty decent most of the time. I think somebody said Madaweke has been probably equally slightly disappointing in some ways. On the Azteca stuff, by the way, as well, I feel like this might be really agrocentric, but it feels like it's got particular importance to England fans, given 86 and Maradona and everything.
4:54I wonder whether it almost worked against Mexico last night. the occasion was enormous but i think that for england it's got this particular um you know almost like austere um sort of quality where we put that particular stadium that occasion on a massive pedestal yeah and and also i don't think anybody thought that we should be winning that game given everything that was going against us given the altitude um you know given yeah their record there and i wonder whether again that works our favor we kind of felt like underdogs a little bit i thought going into that game whereas on other occasions when we've gone into knockout matches during major tournaments i feel like there's almost assumption that we should be winning right up until we play a major european team basically um or one of one of the big south american sides so that felt like it kind of buoyed us a little bit um to put in such a heroic
5:47Jack:performance towards the end it's uh it's i think that's there's definitely something in that and And I've enjoyed, I say, the journalists all doing their 5Ks around Mexico City saying, actually, yeah, the altitude does play a part. And I'm sure it does. But as was pointed out, apparently England also played South Africa in the rugby in South Africa over the weekend. And that was played at a higher altitude than the match last night. So, you know, I think it just, again, it goes a long way to show you, doesn't it? These kind of like frenzies that the media can whip up around these things when they want something to talk about, ultimately.
6:34Jack:It's, yeah, I don't know. I'm sure it was a concern, but England looked largely fine. I mean, Jude Bellingham was blowing towards the end, but he had put in like such a shift. So it was concert, concert, like he was almost dead at the end of that game. he was walking around like almost delirious yeah Kane went off I think 75th 80th minute or so that was that was somewhat tactical but I think that they you know probably wanted to reserve have you seen his have you seen his post-match interviews yeah it's superb isn't it yeah I kind of feel for the guy in the respect that like this is this is going to go down as well England's most historic World Cup games and the captain will be immortalised as being the squeaky voice guy but that happens to me as well often after going to after going to watch spurs play after shouting and screaming my voice goes really easily uh you end up sounding like a teenage boy don't you like on the cusp of your voice breaking going in and out find it especially if i've had a couple of drinks as well yeah i feel into a spurs i did it must just destroy your your vocal cords or something but i think we'd sort of spoken about this off um off air if you like and it's i know it's probably constitutes some form of like thought crime in certain circles but i will i'm not gonna hide for it i'll be delighted if england won the world cup i'll be absolutely buzzing um the question was posed to me by one of my mates like right now what would you take spurs winning in the premier league next year or england winning the world cup spurs winning the premier league every time yeah england winning the world cup would be incredible but as we as we were sort of saying there's another part of me as well that i want them to win it for for me for the country, all that type of stuff for the vibes, right?
8:14Jack:But I really want Harry Kane to win it. I really want that pitch. I really want that moment for him, of him lifting the trophy and being immortalized in that way because he deserves it. He really does. You know, if there's a player that's... He's not going to be the guy. He's not going to retire with five Premier League titles, three Champions League medals. It's just not going to happen for him. It's not gone that way for him. So there's that bit of me that... I don't know if it's like a type of... guilt as a Spurs fan. Yeah. Blind with the sort of, I guess, the by proxy glory that we get seeing like, he's Tottenham's boy, isn't he?
8:52Jack:Being the England captain and winning the World Cup, right? I think so. After the last game, me and my dad were testing each other. I'm like, yeah, he's still Tottenham's boy. Like, definitely. This is one for us, really. I think everybody feels that. And I think if we win the World Cup, he'll probably get the Ballon d 'Or. At least he should get the Ballon d 'Or. Yeah, given the number of goals he scored and continues to score across this tournament as well. He, yeah, I think that I feel the same. It's sometimes a bit tricky to engage with an England team that just has so many Arsenal players in it.
9:25And I know that's really tribal and it's pathetic, but I really, sometimes it's still a bit of me that I'm like, do I want to see Saka do well? I don't know. And that's, which is ridiculous. I'm not I stop the whole like you know scouts not English thing I'm not as far as that um but I do think that it's adjacent though isn't it it's like two degrees it's not far off to be honest and yeah I I I always go back to the way I felt after England lost the Euro final um on penalties because I was over that within like 30 seconds of the game finishing I don't think I'm still over the Champions League final to think I don't think I ever will be and that's how I sort of measure I I think, my sort of emotional reaction to these things.
10:10Jack:It is interesting. It's interesting. I mean, it's going to be a good game next. I think Norway is, I mean, look, they just knocked out Brazil. Erling Haaland is doing a Maradona, it would seem. I mean, look, they're a decent side. They've got a good player. Odegaard's a good player. Neuss is a good player. Their defense is trash, I think, really, Norway. It's one of those, isn't it, where you still would probably rather play Norway than Brazil, I think, even though they just beat in Brazil, you know? Definitely. I mean, but yeah, it's just the thought of Haaland running at the England defence is quite terrifying.
10:47Jack:But we'll see, you know, and to your point of like Arsenal players not doing well, at least you've got to see Haaland, the little Haaland-Gabriel thing as well. There's lots of nice photos of Gabriel falling on his arse as Haaland dives in and gets a big header, which is kind of, you know, you shouldn't you shouldn't really have that joy in like a hard-working young professional's demise but you know i know it's the type of beasts that this game reduces us to isn't it you know yeah no totally and that is that is quite a good story isn't it that's quite a good narrative the continuation of that particular battle um and actually actually on the whole i I feel like it has been quite a dramatic World Cup in a lot of ways.
11:36I can't profess of seeing all of the games. The time difference has been a struggle at times. And sometimes there's just been so many group games is what I've woken up and been like, oh, there's been three or four results I didn't even know were happening. But I saw an American guy that I know say, is this just the case with football? that you just have one guy that just scores all the goals on all the big teams. And that's kind of what it's been like so far. To see that also Messi is still pretty much the best player in the world is kind of cool. He's just kind of gone off and been quietly going about his business, hasn't he?
12:10But actually he's still brilliant.
12:12Jack:I mean, it is a lot of things. I think people have been loathe to give this World Cup credit because there's so much noise around it. I mean, like we saw last night, the news that FIFA are just going to... Oh, man. Not taking into account Balogun's red card, which I will say, I felt the red card was harsh at the time. I do think it was a harsh red card, but the rules are the rules and it's a dodgy decision. And it's been one of those things that I think has been quite unfairly turned into, oh, this is trying to make football more American and stuff. I think most actual American soccer football fans would probably be put out by this decision as well.
12:52Jack:I think everybody's going to be happier to have their best player. If the same thing happened with Kane and we had him going into the quarterfinals, there would be a bit of us that would be relieved, I think, even if it was contrary to our feelings about the way the game should be played and everything. But I think it's ultimately just a decision to get more casuals on board, isn't it? Really, that's what it is. it's it's it's the want to keep the the vibe and everything going in the host nation like the major host nation really which is is the states um yeah and that's probably sad um but it's you know it's it's it's not great it's not great on that sort of front of things i think like the way fifa have been in the lead up to this expanding the tournament all that type of stuff but i do have to say it's been a pretty good world cup and it is shaping up to be if i mean if we're looking at potentially potentially let's not sort of things can happen right but potentially you're looking at semi-final of france spain england argentina that's that's huge i think that's probably the biggest the biggest sort of you know world cup in recent memory yeah yeah totally i think it hasn't helped that there's been all this sort of america 250 celebrations at the same time which is showing all the worst of crass American consumerist culture.
14:14And it's so overblown, some of that stuff. And so it's come hand in hand. I think sometimes with this World Cup, it's easy to sort of couple the two together. But in reality, like you say, it's been pretty decent. And I think part of the problem sometimes for me is that I find a lot of international football just to be quite low quality, quite boring as well. And it's a really trite observation, but it's because you have a handful of players thrown together. They don't play together very often. Managers don't get a lot of time to put together a specific plan, I don't suppose. And they spend a lot of time with those players.
14:50But it has felt slightly different, I think, because some of the best players in the world are on show and they are performing, you know, Mbappe, Haaland. It feels like there's a couple of little subplots developing that you don't always get. you know all of the all those sides you just mentioned there and that could be facing up against each other in the semi-finals i think all of them would go for it i don't think that they would necessarily just sit back and try and cancel the other team out do you think england can do it i was thinking about this earlier because i thought you might ask me this um i actually do yeah i actually think they might because the sudden path to the final feels a little bit more open I think Argentina are a good side, but I think on paper, maybe England edge it.
15:34You know, in Kane and Bellingham, we have two of the genuinely best players in the world. Two genuine world-class superstars. I don't think we can have ever really said that before. The defence is a bit shaky, obviously. But I think if we got to play, say, France in the final, I wouldn't be surprised if we match them. By that point, anything can happen, can't it? So I feel quite cautiously optimistic, actually. If you're a small business owner, you'll know just what it's like to be the chief everything officer. HR, payroll, employee benefits. Well, Gusto can do all of that for you. Gusto is online payroll and benefits software built for small businesses.
16:15It's all in one, remote friendly and incredibly easy to use. It's quick and simple to switch to Gusto. Just transfer your existing data to get up and running fast. Try Gusto today at gusto.com forward slash locked on soccer and get three months free when you run your first payroll. That's gusto.com forward slash locked on soccer.
16:5410 KALSHI CalSheet trade the beautiful game 18 plus only restrictions and eligibility requirements apply event contract trading involves risk and may not be suitable for all investors prices values and available markets may differ from those mentioned for more information see calsheet.com regulatory the entire summer of soccer is on prize picks all 48 countries in every matchup and if you rep your side before the round of 16 on prize picks you can win a trip to the finals in new york it's the biggest tournament ever which means there's even more opportunities to cash in while you root for your favorite national sides and global soccer stars.
17:24Download the app today and use code CUP26 to get$50 instantly in lineups when you play your first$5. Download the app today and use code CUP26 to get$50 instantly in lineups when you play your first$5. Prize Picks, America's number one sports picks app.
17:38Jack:I do especially, because I fluctuated before the tournament, I was quietly confident. I had this feeling that like Tuchel had picked a really functional side you know when the when the team got announced and lots of people were really angry about it i kind of felt like yeah it's it's not fun but i don't think his chelsea side that won the champions league were particularly fun yeah yeah the covid one he managed to sort of grind that out and no nobody nobody had chelsea down as a champions league winner that year and they just managed to grind it out to the very end um and i kind of looked at this and i thought that's that's what Tuchel does isn't it that's kind of his thing that the tournament maestro and all that type of thing um so I was I was quietly confident about that and then the group stages other than the Croatia game group stage and Congo Democratic Republic of um I thought we were terrible I really I wasn't really buying the sort of on though he's just they the other teams are playing in a low block and it's really hard to play against and as much as that is true i do think england were actually bad as well they looked quite disjointed they looked like there wasn't much of a plan there um but something something sort of changed yesterday or yesterday today this morning with with the game where it's almost like the players i guess perhaps perhaps they haven't approached many of the games because i want to say this as respectfully as i can but probably i think it's I'd say the caliber of opposition that England have played thus far are teams that they would expect to beat yeah perhaps there's a slight mentality issue there in them thinking that they can just show up and win those type of games but to see the way they stepped up in this Mexico game which look I know there was a lot made of like what Brad Friedel was saying before the game that Mexico are terrible they're an awful side thing it's Mexico and the Azteca like it's it's a it's a huge event.
19:35Jack:And the way they stepped up, especially like Anthony Gordon was phenomenal. Like Anthony Gordon, a player who I was like, he's terrible. Why have Barcelona spent this money on him? I suddenly was like, okay, right. He's stepping up in that type of environment. I get it a bit more now. Bellingham, I mean, like you said, Bellingham, just one of the best players in the world. And as I sort of waffled on about on here before, a player that doesn't have that Premier League exposure. So there's a propensity, I think with fans to forget that. He even exists. Yeah. Quite how good he is, despite the fact he plays for Real Madrid and has won a Champions League at whatever it was, 20 years old or something.
20:12Jack:And also, like, the other factor in all of this is, like you say, Argentina looked decidedly average against Cabo Verde. And Cabo Verde, you know, they were one of those great stories in the World Cup and everything. And obviously, Argentina have got Messi, who is just defying father time right now. um but if it's the big if if you can nullify messi then you kind of look at the rest of their team and you think julian alvarez is a good player latour martinez am i that worried about him is he you know is if if latour martinez was playing for england would he be starting over rashford or something i'm not entirely sure he would be yeah yeah christian romero love him as i do we know You know he can be got at.
20:59Jack:Like, you know he can be. So I think there's that. And France against Paraguay as well the other night looked decidedly human. They looked decidedly rattled. If we're talking about that sort of mentality with England, I think there were peaks of that from the French team who I feel had that sort of attitude of like, how dare you just not let us win 5-0, you know, against Paraguay. And Paraguay, they were horrible to watch. They clogged the game up, but it was really effective. it was really reflective and it really rattled the french and it they didn't really have an answer for it at all yeah so much so much pearl clutching over that as well you know being an absolute disgrace and all that it's like none of them got booked a single player didn't get booked they were doing their best to try like you said they can't just roll over and see france just steamroll and pass them and they had to try and come up with some kind of plans trying to feed them and that's what they came up with um the other thing i would say is like in tournament of football in fact in in tournaments in almost any sport you know across that cricket and rugby and things is that that i often think the teams the teams that win it grow into the tournaments and gradually improve and i wonder whether there's a slight element of france peaking too soon maybe um you know england's like you said were quite poor during the group stage lives very spurs-esque actually i thought at times that's what i've seen a lot of it like frank spurs yeah yeah yeah Yeah, definitely.
22:24Like a lot of players seemingly try to just like run the ball up the pitch rather than just make simple passes. And yeah, some very, very strange decisions. Maybe almost trying a bit too hard at times as well. Because Bellingham can be a little bit guilty, I think, sometimes of taking one too many touches. This is tangential, but the way he came, by the way, so they shake to shoot and then set up Bellingham for a tap-in was phenomenal. It showed so much composure. Everyone thought he was going to shoot. So yeah, I think, you know, you have to fancy our chances. This particular fixture always looked like a massive banana skin, didn't it?
22:59And I think that now we've got past that, it just feels like there's a little bit more of an open path now for us. And, you know, why shouldn't there be? We do have such a fantastic sign on paper.
23:11Jack:I think the big worry, like you say, though, is that the best teams grow into it. The Spanish are kind of quietly doing it as well, aren't they? Right now, and it sounds sort of ridiculous to say, I'm sort of more worried about them from an England perspective than I am France. Only in so much as I can kind of see Spain beating France, I think. And they've got Mbappe, who is unbelievable. He's going to go down as one of the World Cup's greatest players, and rightfully so. But I don't know. I don't know. It was just, there was something quite eye-opening about that Paraguay game, I think, with the French.
23:45Jack:And like you say, perhaps they have peaked a bit too soon. I mean they might not Morocco you can't just write their own views it's a fair point yeah it's a really good point they were fantastic haven't they I think it was their it was their first game wasn't it when they played Brazil and the first 20 minutes I thought god this could be another like 7-1 you know they were pulling Brazil to pieces yeah but yeah it's a fair point the other thing though is that Spain are playing Portugal tonight aren't they that's a massive fixture Portugal have got again a very very good side um you know if they it's overshadowed by him isn't it which is that's what i was gonna say if they can like grow a pair and drop them to the bench then i think they've got a fantastic chance but otherwise it just gets in everyone's way doesn't it but it's funny isn't it like every time they take him off they suddenly start knocking the ball about and looking really good and you think just just do it i've seen some stuff very unsubstantiated twitter stuff but People saying that there's something that Roberto...
24:44Jack:Is Roberto Martinez the gaffer, isn't he, of Portugal? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think there's something in his contract that he has to play Ronaldo if he's available or something better. If he's on Twitter, then it's probably definitely true. I'll tell you one thing that is interesting there, he's been rumbled. I don't know if you've seen this. There's a few letters circulating. A few people have kind of, again, been whistleblowers about it that Ronaldo has hired like this PR agency to go to lots of these big football Twitter accounts to basically tweet shit about Messi and like if Ronaldo doesn't have a great performance to say the refs weren't very good or reasons which is just it's just so like the thing about him is it's like you've been such a wonderful player right let's not talk about him as a human being but as a footballer, he's been a wonderful player.
25:37Jack:He's had a glittering career that such a tiny percentage of footballers will ever get to have. When is it enough? You know, when is it enough? That is just mad behaviour, isn't it? Really. It's borderline deranged, isn't it? It is. Yeah, it is. I think people of that kind of level though, they are built differently, aren't they? There is like a kind of ruthless, like incredibly petty streak as well. um if it was me i'd be like that's maybe one not like that kind of a person i think who could be asked really like why waste your money on that like you know i'm doing fine you know like life's life's pretty good for me you know like i'm a multi-millionaire i'm in the best shape of my life and i'm 40 years old um i probably don't have anything else to worry about you know that's crazy maybe that's why maybe you just want something to be angry about your job is traveling the world and playing football as well yeah it's and when you retire from playing football you'll probably be a pundit or a coach or whatever and be paid handsomely to travel the world and well unless you work for the bbc and uh yeah topical political for a um for like such a kind of born winner it's such like a loser thing to do isn't it like it's just really lame i feel like it's just not really it's not very cool no um i guess we should probably talk a bit about tottenham hotspur football club i mean i didn't really into i just wanted to sort of briefly brush on the world cup at the top but it's just it's an interesting discussion i like i love i love talking about the world cup to be honest and um there's plenty to go on with it um but still spurs sandra tonali has not yet been announced pretty certain it's done right i think like people have sort of there's been a bit of like ass wobbling over the weekend of like maybe newcastle is scuppering it last minute what's happening what's going on but i'm pretty sure it's done it's probably i think one of the more like rational takes i'd seen on it over the weekend was we didn't get the paperwork done in time to miss like the weekend window and they probably don't operate over the weekend or or whatever for us the premier league that is to to announce this sort of deal officially yeah i don't i don't feel concerned i i saw somewhere that they were saying newcastle wanted to announce their signing that guy does it trial ray toray so yeah um he plays the ivory coast which they did announce i think yesterday so i i assume he's he's going to be announced today i don't have any worries about that given that he was actually in milana airport saying yeah i can't wait to play for deservely or whatever it was and deserve he convinced me to come i mean something drastic could have must have happened for anything to go wrong on this stage unless his like knee exploded on his way to his medical or something which which is possible given given his Spurs but unlikely.
28:23Jack:How excited are you about his signing? And I guess kicking on from that, how excited are you that we have seemingly, fingers crossed still, you're not Spurs if you're not crossing your fingers, happy that we actually did end up getting both Tonali and Fernandes because when that prospect was first floated just a couple of weeks ago, it was a surely not. I won't see it that Spurs will spend close to 200 million pounds on a midfield this summer it'll be one or the other and people were kind of speculating i think i think sort of the tactical take was more that we needed a player more like fernandez and thus i guess there was a bit of negativity poured onto tonali but now that it's become clear that we are signing both of them i think the take has been much more rounded in terms of that's really good business like they are they are their skill sets are incredibly complimentary and when you plug a madison or perhaps an aggie number 10 gallagher into that equation as well tottenham's midfield is suddenly looks like maybe the best in the premier league which is mad isn't it tee off on the turkish riviera europe's premier golf destination with championship courses in bilec and antalya luxury all-inclusive resorts and year-round sunshine.
29:42It is the perfect getaway under the Mediterranean sun. Play immaculate fairways designed by golf legends, then unwind beside stunning beaches and five-star hospitality.
29:54Jack:Search Turkey on TripAdvisor now to book your ultimate golf holiday in the Turkish Riviera. If your business runs on five different apps, 12 browser tabs, and one spreadsheet that everyone's afraid to touch, it's probably time for Odoo. Odoo is an all-in-one business management software that connects every part of your business into one powerful, easy-to-use platform. So instead of wasting time switching between disconnected systems, your entire business works together in real time. Your team moves faster, your data stays accurate, and you can actually focus on growing your business. Let one unified system run your entire business.
30:36From the first opportunity to the final payment, everything works together in one place. Whether you're a small business or managing a large operation, Odoo gives you one flexible platform built to grow with you. Learn more at odoo.com. That's O-D-O-O dot com. Are all batteries the same? That's like asking if all soccer players are the same. Take Messi, the most decorated player ever. Is there any other player who has achieved that? No, just him. Now take Duracell. Is there any other battery with power boost ingredients inside? No, just Duracell. Goats only trust Goats, because they're built different.
31:23And Messi only trusts Duracell. um yeah look i'm i'm a a simple creature offensively and i just think this is really really exciting because they're they're new really expensive footballers um and and that i think is is reason to celebrate it's i agree with you when when both of them were touted as joining us it we have we have to almost change our mindset i think because in the past that never would have happened we never would have signed both it would have been probably neither actually and I think what it signals is particularly to Nali a real sort of changing approach and changing attitude and seriousness about the club that hasn't existed previously and I know that we've spoken a lot about this in the past but one of the one of the worst things that's been allowed to happen to Tottenham is they've been allowed to become a joke all those little things you know So even last season, Frank with the Arsenal Cup, you know, missing out to Arsenal with the signing of Eze, even when we had like a here we go and whatnot.
32:33All of these little things. I mean, there have been so many over the years that we haven't really combated, I don't think. We haven't come out fighting against. And this is such a clear signal that actually, no, no, we are going to be taken seriously as a football club again. There aren't many clubs that can go out and spend 200 million or the best part of 200 million on, like you said, probably two of the best central midfielders in the Premier League and just say, yeah, that's that problem fixed. We're going to move on to the next one now. Tonali's a really strong, really, really good player.
33:05I remember when he first went for Newcastle, there was a few people saying that, oh, his numbers aren't that great. Actually, you know, it's a lot of money. He's going to get banned soon anyway. then immediately when you actually see him playing, you know, the eye test, you go, no, what are you talking about? He's a proper player. And I don't think like the numbers always tell the full story. Fernandes is class. He's looked class all season. I think we're incredibly lucky to have a player like him coming to Tottenham at only 21 years old as well. I mean, he shows such immense maturity, which is really in stark contrast, I think, potentially to a couple of the other younger players in the squad which which we can touch on I guess as well so look it's it's difficult not to be incredibly excited and cautiously optimistic um the only thing I would say is that this does need to continue because you know you you suddenly look at the the defense now and the midfield and like you said it could be the best midfield in the league but then suddenly you look at look at the wingers and you look look up top and you think we are a bit short here you know when paulina is just second second top scorer last season there's obviously a massive issue both in charles creation which we might have sorted but also in actually converting chances as well um and so i think if we're gonna we're gonna go for it then then let's let's kind of keep our foot on the pedal and it feels like they're they're
Read the full transcript
34:34Jack:going to by the looks of it at the moment well there's lots of links to croupy at bournemouth Raffa Liao the Savino stuff still isn't isn't going away Marmouche actually was mentioned as well I think really isn't it yeah and I I really like Marmouche Marmouche who I've just started to see mentioned as well who's been really impressive World Cup too yeah nice yeah I really like him so again in just in an eye test fashion but yeah I definitely agree with you I mean we saw Kulusevsky I don't know if you've seen him kicking balls about again has he? yeah he put a video up I can't tell if it's just like a confirmation bias and I'm not saying this is like a pun, but I still feel like he was moving a bit gingerly.
35:16Jack:So we'll see. You know, it's hard to know. You know, I'm not a medical professional. I don't really know what the prognosis is with a player of his type of injury, but everything I've been told and everything I've read about it is that it's a pretty rare one and it's a very bad one for a professional footballer that needs to be able to shift direction, move your weight, pivot, all that type of stuff constantly. But fingers crossed, because I look at somebody like Kulosevsky and I think about Roberto De Zerbe, you think about the type of football, in theory, that he wants to play to retain possession, to be tenacious, to give it your everything, to leave it all out there on the pitch.
35:54Jack:All of these qualities that a player like Kulosevsky has in droves, you know, it's... It'd be unbelievable. If he could come back even close to his best, it would be an unbelievable midfield. I think that he would complement it brilliantly. He would complement most sides, I think, in the league. He was probably our best player. He got Curtis, Odderberg, Shalit. It's quite crazy, isn't it, really? It could be a really good side. I love as well that we've gone, right, we're just going to buy the two most progressive ball-playing defenders in the league, basically. And that's exactly what Deserby system needs.
36:35That's what we're going to go out and get. And that in itself, I think, is quite exciting because we are fine-tuning ourselves, I think, into being this perfect Deserby ball squad. And why not, I guess? We own quite a bit. It looks like he knows what he's doing. It could be really interesting to watch us. I think we'll be quite a unique prospect as well next season. I think we'll have a clear kind of ethos the way that we want to go about things.
37:02Jack:How do you feel about the rumours that Cristian Romero is actually having a bit of an about turn? That he is kind of, he fancies a bit of this Deserby project, actually, because I think we've all sort of written him off, haven't we, subconsciously or consciously, as he's not going to be here next year. But I'd be a liar if I said I wasn't, I wouldn't be so quick to push Cristian Romero out the door if he does fancy, you know? Yeah, no way. I mean, again, he's another one of those ball-playing defenders, isn't he? And he's fantastic at it. I mean, it's tricky with him, isn't it? Because it felt like he started to disengage, but then in a way, who can blame him?
37:42Because he's probably been the best player in a failing football team for the last two seasons. When he needed to step up, he did and help win us a Europa League, which shouldn't be forgotten. I think partly with a lot of fans, it's almost like feeling jaded just because he's been with us a long time. And he's slightly been tainted by these last couple of seasons and Spurs downfall over the last little period. It's a bit like, I feel like the same way, a little bit like Benzincur in the sense that, I know he's not on the same level as Romero, but he's just been with us for a long time. And you kind of just want fresh blood sometimes.
38:17You almost want to draw a line in the sand and say, actually, we're going to... And because especially we've bought Sonali and Fernandez, it feels like, you know, all these new shiny things are going to outshine, you know, the existing stars. But actually, yeah, I'm with you. If he wants to stay and he's on board, then I feel like that can only be to our benefit. He'll be so gone.
38:40Jack:No, to that point on Ben Tenko and Romero, I think it was Fighting Cock that said a few weeks back or at some point before, that some of those players, because of this era of Spurs, have just got like a bit of a stink on them. You know, that you... it's a really sort of like you know basic way of looking at it but sometimes you do just need that refresh it's like when you look at a cup your cupboard full of clothes right and you can look at them you buy these shirts are all right there's nothing actually wrong with them but i might just give them to the charity shop now because i'm so i'm just sort of sick of looking at them yeah and it's unfortunately yeah it's human nature isn't it there yeah um it's like you know in in the morning i often go for a really nice walk out with a dog and when i first moved here i was like god this is amazing and you stop appreciating it after a while yeah you don't be apart you know you're just like right let's just get this done get back home so i'm start work and so i guess romero is my countryside walk just more aggie yeah yeah i like that you described gallagher as like an aggie number 10 i think i'm all for more aggie number 10 to be honest well that's it isn't it because you know i've sort of been wondering where the hell does he play now that we sign two players that arguably operate in the two positions that he can like a six or an eight I think that's sort of his things but towards the end of last season right Deserby was playing him in that advanced role that I think I want to say he played at Palace as well before and had actually pretty good returns from I think he scored quite a few goals and I wouldn't be surprised if we sometimes see him start ahead of Madison in that position I just think suits Deserby's system a bit more it's the kind of play he likes isn't it he doesn't normally generate a huge number of chances I don't think through the number 10 positions through playing like a few goals through balls a lot it comes through the winners isn't it and those those guys drop in deep did you um see on so obviously now it's it's part of Tonali's airport interview was him saying that as soon as he spoke to De Zerbi he was excited he was looking forward to the project Fernandez too said in his actual his official interview with the club it was something to the effect of De Zerbi had told him that we weren't looking to just climb the table we weren't looking we're looking to finish first we're looking to win we're looking to win the league I mean if that if that's the energy this gaffer is taking into the season with no European football with probably most of the other big clubs in a certain state of flux look it will be interesting to see how Arsenal do look Rice looks like he's absolutely blowing at the moment Saka equally um arsenal invested a hell of a lot of emotional energy into getting that title across the line the last few years can they go again that will be interesting to see mareska's first season at city they're in a sort of period of flux you can sort of replicate this tale across most of the big clubs if you like um so i guess my question is as i said to you with england not so much can spurs win the league but do you feel like that's what we're going for making signings like this.
41:45Jack:And I guess also, no, let's do that first and then I'll talk about the bigger picture as to what Tottenham actually are now as a club. So do you sense that there is an opportunity there and Spurs are maybe going hard on the signings and everything like that, not just to pull away from being a 17th place consecutive finishing side, but actually to be a side that thinks, hang on, we've got a proper manager now that's making the right noises. let's just give him the money let's do it let's go for it I mean it is a bit mad isn't it finishing 17th twice in a row and yet also just having now this mad optimism because we seem to be making the right noises you know if you'd start comparing our team if you take the midfield again for example and look at other midfields towards the end of this transfer window you know look at City look at Arsenal look at maybe Man United well Man United don't have any central midfielders at the moment do they?
42:42and Liverpool. Sorry about that, United. Yeah, never mind. You know, you have to say it's probably up there, don't you, I think? Both in balance and quality. Deserbi, I think, ultimately understands this is his opportunity, doesn't he? And it does feel like, to me, something's almost like broken in space and time for us to even be here. It felt so inevitable that for a long period of time we were going to be going down last season. we were almost being drawn towards the bottom of the league like a magnet. Now it feels like because we got out of it, something shifted. It almost just feels like there's this renewed sense of hope, but it's also a bit more than that.
43:25It feels like it's a different timeline that we've managed to escape onto. And so it almost feels like there's no real limit to what the possibilities are for next season. So I guess, look, anything is possible. Realistically, it'll be an enormous jump for a side like us to go from where we were to the top of the league next season. But I don't think top four is an unrealistic ambition, particularly if we get off to a good start, particularly if we manage to secure some of the other names you mentioned just now as well. I mean, something like Kruppi would be brilliant. You know, the culture needed to shift.
44:06So if Dezerbi's saying, we want to win the league, well, yeah, why not? That's what we should be saying. That's what other managers should have been saying over the last, you know, three or four seasons of we're going to lose football matches.
44:16Jack:So, yeah, it just, it always comes back to that, doesn't it? And it's so just, it doesn't get any easier anytime you say it again. But one of the sort of points that's been raised, I've seen it raised in a couple of places. So Neville Keane and Ian Wright were talking about it on the whatever is stick to football, the overlap thing. I know. You know, Neville was essentially making the point that Spurs are being serious. You know, I haven't seen the full discussion, but from what I saw, he wasn't even doing it, going down the route as we've seen Shearer talk about, oh, it's unfair, you know, PSR and all this type of stuff.
44:52Jack:It's not fair. It's not fair to Newcastle. So it's that Tottenham could finish 17th and then do this sort of thing. Because football only started being played two years ago. But Neville's point was like Spurs are going for it. Roy Keane was in agreement. Even Ian Wright. Ian Wright let out a come on new Spurs, which I'm sure probably wouldn't go there. No way, really, did he? Yeah, it was kind of, I don't know, maybe it was just a nervous tick from him or something. But yeah, so they were talking about that. And then from the most unlikely source as well, the Twitter algorithm decided to serve me Rory Jennings.
45:27Jack:Wow. looking quite rattled to be honest on his podcast essentially saying the tottenham that i have dug into a lot before the tottenham under daniel levy the tottenham to this point are gone like yeah we have to start viewing tottenham now as a different entity because this isn't normal like what what they're doing right now is not normal um and this is potentially the sign that they are taking that step up now that that we've we've we've accrued this platform to do it that we've all spoken about in you know to degrees of cautious optimism back in the day then to sort of resigned it's just a money-making scheme for Enoch type thing but now seems to be bearing fruit so I guess the question I'll just put to you Gavin is even if it's not a smash and grab this year right we make a great fist of it we're not a 17th place team anymore we do finish in the top four we look like a proper side again do you feel like this is the start of that's not the end of the road for Tottenham that in maybe three, four years time, we can be in a place where we are looking at Spurs winning a Premier League, Spurs being in a Champions League final again, and Deserby going down as one of our greatest ever managed.
46:34Jack:Hey, it's Bill from the Bill Simmons podcast. FIFA World Cup 26 fans, listen up. As the official beer sponsor of the FIFA World Cup 26, Michelob Ultra is giving away$1 million worth of FIFA World Cup 26 tickets and prizes. Enter now at michlobaltra.com slash superior access slash FIFA World Cup 26. Michelob Ultra FIFA World Cup 26, superior access, no purchase necessary. Open U.S. Residence 21 Plus begins on December 1st, 2025, ends on July 31st, 2026, multiple entry periods. Visit www.miclobaltra.com slash superior access slash FIFA World Cup 26 for free entry, entry deadlines, prizes, and details.
47:05This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Listening to this podcast instead of doom scrolling, smart move. Another smart move? getting help from one of State Farm's 19 ,000 local agents when you choose to bundle home and auto. Bundling, just another way to save with the personal price plan. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state.
47:34This summer, serve up the cookout classics, Heinz ketchup and Kraft singles. Every good burger needs a layer of perfectly melty cheese and thick, rich ketchup. We all know it's not a cookout without Heinz and Kraft. Well, I obviously hope so. And there's no reason to suggest not. This is what it takes, right? Basically spending this sort of money, but consistently every single summer for the next two or three years. And if we do that, we probably will win a Premier League. It's a quite simple equation. That's what Arsenal have done. you know they've evolved slowly their sort of style but they've effectively just bought really good players for a lot of money on high wages and they've gradually I think managed to knock the door down but it's taken a long time and actually you know we might be fortunate enough to come into this like you say in the position where a lot of other teams are in flux the other thing I was going to say around like spending and whatnot being a different club is that we actually, I think, are going to get a lot back in player sales as well this summer.
48:43You know, there aren't many players that I would be desperate to hold on to, if any. And, you know, with the Vuzkovic thing as well, I know a lot's already been said about that. I didn't realise that that's like a£30 million profit. And similarly, with Bergvau, if we're keeping him, fine. But again, we could be making£30-40 million on that.
49:02Jack:Did you see Dragos and got the here we go last night? Yes, I did. Yeah, yeah, I did. 25 mil, which is, you know, is mad. Yeah. When you say, you know, when you look at Voscovic and Dragosin, that's already Fernandes covered. In crude terms, you know, 75 mil, that's already nearly him covered, which is, I know it doesn't work quite in the straightforward fashion as that, but still it's quite mad. And that's not a bad strategy, right? If we keep buying young players, as well at times that are 17, 18 for 10 million and flogging them for 40, 50. You know, that's not a bad strategy if we decide that actually they're not going to be quite at the level that we were expecting them to achieve.
49:45So it does feel like something's been unlocked. It's like when I was 19, it got a Wonga loan and suddenly had 350 quid to spend on like clothes and vinyl and stuff, you know? Yeah. Well, on that occasion, you have to pay it back. But, you know, it turns out how, it turns out we have like massive financial muscle. as we as we suspected yeah but for a long time it was almost brushed under the carpet and there is this massive irony here right which is that this frugality has now led to the ability to be incredibly profligate with our spending but also there aren't many clubs with the financial head room that we have you know we could smash this for the next two years probably um spend net 200 of 300 million and suddenly improve the squad.
50:31In some ways, it's quite easy, isn't it, football, when you're in this massive financial behemoth. And I don't know why we've made it so difficult for ourselves. All of this was meant to lead to the ability to compete at this level. I'd be interested to know whether this was Levy's running of the club, whether it was directed to him. My feeling is that it probably was his sort of running of the club, and that he still felt the need to make sure that we were winning in some capacity when we were trying to haggle over players. You know, football was in some ways quite irrational in the way it operates.
51:08Isn't it isn't, you know? But at the end of the day, money talks. And Fernandes, Tenali, we got them because we offered them loads of cash.
51:15Jack:I think this is it, this is it, right? It's the, you know, Levy walked so Tottenham could run type thing, isn't it? That we, it's undeniable. it's undeniable that the platform we have now and the ability to do what we're doing is a result of Daniel Levy but I think it was Windy that said the other day that like we can do this because of Levy but we would have never done it with Levy yeah that's a good point yeah yeah and I think my my just my strongest conviction on Daniel Levy is that it's not that he's tight and all that type of stuff you know I think a lot of that stuff is kind of like tempered with anti-semitism and things like that i think mostly for me with daniel levy it was that he like you say he wanted to prove that he could win stuff but i i kind of feel that like he wanted to prove that his mantra could win and i think yeah that's i think that's what he acted too slavishly to at times that he he wanted to prove that you could win the premier league without having to give players exorbitant wages having to having to give a club like brighton 50 million pounds when van hecke has only got a year left on his contract he wanted to prove that like you know all those times he was called frugal and not a proper football man and didn't understand the game that everybody else was wrong and that he could prove that he could somehow money but well the gaffer wants bruno fernandez does he well i'm going to give him laselso because my data guys have told me that he's got a similar data set and he's blah blah blah blah blah but that's what it always comes down to isn't given When we talk about like eye test the intangibles, there will always be a debate as to how good or not Giovanni Lo Celso was, but it's undeniable that Bruno Fernandes is a significantly better player than him.
52:58Jack:He has proved that over years in the Premier League. And, you know, he's spoken himself about the fact that he wanted to come to Tottenham, that Tottenham were very much in the mix, but they wouldn't match the sort of package that was on offer. So, look, we don't need to go over this anymore. Spurs are now. I think Spurs have realised, look, we've tried it that way. It hasn't happened. It's nearly seen as get relegated. We've saved losing probably half a billion by not going down to the championship. So if we have to spend a couple of hundred million this year and actually prove to people that we are a proper side, that we are a side befitting of this stadium, of the prices that we charge to our fans, all these things that we've complained about for years, then this is what it takes.
53:41Jack:And I'm just... If it's taken a long time, fine. not fine but still at least we're there now and I I've got to say I do I I kind of trust that they are there now but I guess that will be that will be revealed in time anything else you want to say today Gav? No I don't think so I think I think we've covered it it's just it's just exciting isn't it it's really exciting I'm so I'm so looking forward to the new season yeah yeah you're going to go to Hoffenheim I am in Paris when we're at Hoffenheim I'm afraid so I I am going to try and go to a pre-season friendly day of them. Yeah, I can't remember.
54:18Jack:But the thing I like about this Hoffenheim one is it's got that old school vibe of like a decent-ish European side at the lane just before the season starts. It reminds me of like when we played like a Roma or a Sporting or someone like that at Spurs. It was quite nice. I would have gone if I wasn't away for exactly the same reasons. And I think that it's just great seeing like your new players on the show, isn't it, as well? Yeah, exactly. Just seeing them get a run around in the new kit and all that type of stuff. Great. In the sunshine. Yeah. But, Gammie, mate, it's been a pleasure as always.
54:53Jack:And, yeah, come on, you Spurs. And I guess come on England. Is that what we come on, you England? Is it you England or is it England? Come on, you England, a little bit. Yeah. Come on, Kane, but mostly come on Tottenham. Yeah. Come on, you Spurs. Thank you, mate. Cheers, mate.
55:42confidence and support every step of the way. Shop up to 50 % off site-wide, plus huge savings on doorbusters right now during the 4th of July mega sale at blinds.com. The grill is shot. The chairs are held together by optimism. And what happened to the rug? Sounds like your outdoor setup is not ready for patio season. Fix it all with Wayfair. Shop Wayfair for grills, rugs, furniture, and more. With 20 million five-star reviews, room of choice delivery, and experts set up on qualifying orders, it's never been easier to do more for less. Get 10 % off your first eligible purchase. Hurry to Wayfair.com or download the app now.
From the publisher
Jack is joined by Gavin for a jam-packed episode covering all the drama on the international stage and the latest movements at Hotspur Way. We kick things off with a deep dive into the World Cup, reacting to England's absolute heroics in their thrilling 3-2 victory over Mexico at the Estadio Azteca. We discuss the tantalising prospect of Harry Kane lifting the trophy and being immortalised as a World Cup-winning captain, and debate where this brilliant tournament ranks among the best in recent years. We also tackle the bizarre political backdrop of the competition, looking at the troubling reports of FIFA seemingly being coerced into allowing Folarin Balogun to play following pressure from Donald Trump.
Attention then turns back to Tottenham Hotspur, as we share our sheer excitement over the impending arrival of Sandro Tonali from Newcastle. We break down how he will mesh with Mateus Fernandes in Roberto De Zerbi’s midfield, what this new-look engine room means for the season ahead, and the wider implications of the Lewis family finally embracing a free-spending approach. Are we finally witnessing the dawn of a massive new era for the club?
Theme is Ghost Cat by Gillen
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices




