North London Demolition | Eze's Hat-trick & Re-energising The Spurs Husk

31:31Jack:Yeah, go on, mate. I've done lots of chatting. Where are you at with him?

31:36Phil:I think quite like you, I was never sort of blown away with him coming in. And that doesn't mean I'm sort of like Frank out. And the fact that we've got this sort of binary sort of position holding because of the Ange thing, really, you know, that whole Ange in, Ange out thing was a palpable thing. And now that terminology has now kind of come over to Frank and probably future managers as well. I have to say, I just don't really like how, and I know this is a bit hack, and I know this is a bit sort of gammon, sort of proper football, man. And I just don't really like how he kind of speaks about us or about football.

32:13Phil:Yeah, right, you can do a tactics masterclass video and this, that and the other and talk about how wonderful it is to do this and how he works on things. I mean, that just looks terrible when it doesn't work, isn't it? Literally like 48 hours later for one thing. But just his overall kind of expectation setting. And all right, fine. Yeah, he is right. We did finish 17th last season, but we didn't finish 14th the season before. or did we you know that that was that was an aberration so we can't kind of start making that 17th as a as the baseline because again it just drops the kind of quality of the club or the expectation of the club down to there I really didn't like that as a who thing as much as he might have done that as a bit of a joke as in obviously I know who he is because I really liked him and I really wanted him to join here it doesn't matter that's just really naive thing to say especially in this world of kind of um you know social media and it just made me think you know again whether that's a tangible thing or not that that actually has a knock-on effect one don't risk it two be a bit smarter and three it makes me think of Michael Jordan in that um Last Dance documentary right when he talks about how he needed motivation to kind of you know reach the heights and continue to stay there to the point where one time he just I can't remember the player but he just created this beef in the press with this player just so he'd have something sort of cling to and the other player was like I have no idea what he's talking about and Michael Jordan just created this thing just so it would just spur him on that bit if that's what sportsmen like you've got to be careful not to give him any extra motivation right because it sounded like Ezra and him were on good terms you know as it said Ezra called him up and said sorry I'm going to go to Arsenal, you know, thanks for the interest, blah, blah, blah.

34:00Phil:And I don't know, again, it feels stupid to say it, but it's just, it's avoidable. It's avoidable for your own, whether it has any, as I say, whether it has any sort of tangible impact on the game itself, it certainly has a tangible impact on the perception of you as a manager, because now you're a bit of a laughingstock, right? Now you're a meme and you've got, and those are the sorts of things that does you in right if public opinion turns against you then it's an easy easy fix for the club or your pay masters kind of kind of you know get rid of you and pick someone else so again just naive and something has to change and again I don't I don't dislike him you know and I know people have been coming from on a personal level that's all ridiculous that doesn't really matter or you know it matters I'm sure to him but I'm not sort of fussed about that sort of side of things you know him personally I'm just concerned you know and again a couple of weeks ago even I was like you know I'm sort of on the not necessarily on the fence I'm just like I know that this club is sort of behind the times a little bit or behind the curve and we've got injuries to come back and we've got the playing squad isn't that good even in the last two weeks I've started to kind of change my opinion that actually again whether it's an easy comparison to make it all feels very Nuno right and the feelings that's it that's it the feelings aren't invalid just because you can't explain them just because I don't have the kind of data or the kind of um examples or the um evidence to kind of back up why it just feels like that's suddenly where we are right and I don't think I don't think that is you should ignore that so yeah um am I saying we should sack him tomorrow no because what does that necessarily achieve nothing I mean that's a

35:52Jack:that's a road to Gareth Southgate being our manager isn't it you know for for at least until the end of the season or something like that I and this is kind of where I where I'm landing with Frank mate I who's a viable alternative right now and I get it you know speaking to Lister about it after the game and he was saying well that's not your job you're not paid millions of pounds to really know who should be a viable candidate for Tottenham you should just know as a fan that this is wrong and I do think there is something in that but equally there isn't there's nobody that really stands out is there um and I appreciate I don't really have my finger on the pulse as I used to with say European football or football outside of the Premier League because you quite simply just don't have the capacity as you get older right you're not you're not doing things like playing video games, football video games as much, which is where you tend to learn a lot about whatever.

36:50Jack:I don't know. It doesn't matter. But, you know, the point is that I can't see anybody that steps in at this point in a season and instantly makes this better. You know, if we could there be a Santini and Yol thing? If we bin off Frank, could we promote Cochran? you know would that be would that be any different or is Cochran the man that is in you know it quite literally in legion with Thomas Frank who is who is agreeing with him philosophically on what it is that Spurs should be doing I don't know you know I don't know is is Cochran somebody that's waiting for his opportunity that he feels stifled by Thomas Frank he is a very highly rated coach you know people do really like him he's a part of the England set up as well I believe anyway um at least was at some point I'm not sure if he still is whilst he's now contracted Spurs he is okay there you go um so maybe you know maybe there's something that I I don't know mate um I don't think this is working in my gut I I don't think it is and I've almost not really wanted to accept that not because I particularly have a fondness for Thomas Frank I think he seems like a nice man you know I wanted it to kind of work out but it's more because I can't I can't be asked for us going through another managerial kind of merry-go-round if you like I can't be asked for the threat of Spurs thinking you know what actually maybe Brendan Rodgers could have a bit of a Harry Redknapp effect for us you know what I mean though like yeah yeah it's that type of thing that i'm like i can't i can't face us doing something like that when there's nobody that really stands out like because you know people will say oh you know glasner is somebody that come in apparently like you know a lot of people are talking about the fact that glasner's palace are a team that also rely on playing non-possession-based football like Thomas Frank does.

38:54Jack:There's somebody like Iriola who there are some pleasing parallels between him and Pochettino, but I don't know. There's still, do you know what I mean? I get certain red flags about him. There are certain just bits about him where I think like, is he absolutely guaranteed to step up to a club at our level, if you like, and be able to do it? to be fair I don't know if any of us thought that Pochettino would be able to do it but again it almost feels like football's changed a bit in that time doesn't it um and Pochettino and Iriola as well doesn't have Kane coming through he doesn't have you know a Sonnyan Min I mean maybe maybe Chevy Siemens but you know I you know I think that probably does Sonny a bit of a disservice I just I don't I don't really know how I feel about Frank other than a gut feel which is as you say as you touched on there it's all feeling a bit new no it's all feeling a bit Potter at Chelsea isn't it where you didn't really look at Potter at Chelsea and think god it's abject you could just see from the outside he just he's just he's not built for that level he just isn't built for that level and it it does just feel that way i can't remember who it was that said it i think they said it on view for the lame podcast but there's a really good quote that stuck out for me it's like every time a question is asked to frank like whenever it comes to one of these pinch points when a question is asked he always gives the wrong answer and and and that just that kind of feels fitting doesn't it because he went into yesterday and and didn't play Simmons or Colomwani.

40:39Jack:And I know Colomwani's got this jaw thing, but he seemed to be all right when we were desperately chasing the game to bring him on, you know, like two of our most exciting attacking talents. And ultimately when it came down to it, he decided not to do it. He played probably the most defensive team available to him, right? Richarlison, you would even say is a defensive attacking player,

41:03Phil:which considering how far he is from the goal most of the time. Yeah.

41:08Jack:it's oh i don't know mate i don't you know yeah yeah is there anybody that sticks out for you if we bend him you thought this was your run club era turns out it was more of a thinking about run club era the good news someone's marathon training is about to start sell your workout gear on depop just snap a few photos and we'll take care of the rest they get their race Stay fit and you get a payout for trying. Someone on Depop wants what you've got. Start selling now. Depop. Where taste recognizes taste. Are all batteries the same?

41:49Phil:That's like asking if all soccer players are the same.

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42:25Phil:With over 19 ,000 local agents, they help you find the coverage that fits your needs. so you can spend less time worrying about insurance and more time enjoying the ride. Download the State Farm app or go online at statefarm.com. Like a good neighbour, State Farm is there. No, no. And again, like talking through that, like as much as you can say whether Frank has grasped what Tottenham is or not, you know, in theory there's room for him to do that and to kind of improve and kind of get his head around it. I mean, I don't know what that kind of curve looks like because I do think there is an element of players needing someone with clear pedigree for them to respect them, right?

43:07Phil:And I'm not necessarily thinking that they're not playing for him, but I don't get the sense there's a huge cohesion there between our playing staff and him and the set-up. And again, it is still early days, right? What are we, like three months into this season? You know, a lot of this can come out in the wash. I'm just kind of covering my bases there. But I think it comes down to the fact that we just don't have a good squad. We don't have very good players. Like, starting Bentancur with Palinja every game, it just never seems to work. Why is Saar not getting a look in? And again, maybe Saar isn't suited to that kind of role playing next to Palinja.

43:53Phil:But, I mean, can it be any worse than what we're seeing at the moment? And so, again, you try and give like Thomas Frank a bit of a bit of grace. But then when you start seeing what I think are quite clear problems not being addressed, constantly making the same mistake, you know, you say whenever he kind of there's a pinch point, he does he fails it. And then not sort of learning from it is another sort of worry. Right. I just yeah, it's I mean, yeah, my my I guess my sort of broad thing on this is. we need better players. We need to start spending money. We need the Lewis family to kind of hit the ground running in January and show some intent because I think that's what it is.

44:36Phil:We don't have any intent in the club, right? We're just kind of all at sea with stuff. Yeah, we won the Europa League last season, but there's no real kind of direction. All this kind of muddled leadership with Paratici and Langer basically on the same sort of level, even though they're covering different things. Again, not that I should have to care about that at all, but it just feels like we don't really know where we're going. And I think intent from the owners shows a clear direction or a clear sort of a broad direction, right? And I think that's what we kind of need to see. So that's what I'm, you know, as much as I'm sort of fuming today, that's what I'm kind of pinning my hopes on, that that's the quick or immediate, relatively speaking, progress that we see.

45:20Phil:If we don't see that, and, you know, your point about the bollocks that people say about it's hard to do business in January. It's not hard. It's expensive to do it. And therein lies the rub, right, which is something that we've just never been able to get to grips with. As you say, sometimes you have to spend money and make a mistake and then flog them and then try it again rather than kind of dipping our tone, which we did with Ndombele and Leselso to a point where we spent the money, fine, we'll do it, and then got buyer's remorse and then never went back to the shop again. that that's the problem that that's that's that's that that's our kind of financials distilled in right that we we tried it it didn't work immediately well like we did it like we expected it and then we kind of lost our bottle and i say we it was daniel levy right so again the fact that if daniel levy was still here right this would be this this would be horrendous but the fact that they've made a change and again all right fine it's still enic just re just with a kind of a really bad rebrand but you know I do think that you can make the argument for there being a clear delineation for Joe Lewis and his his his offspring taking things forward so we need to see I mean I wouldn't it wouldn't surprise him if we started to hear things about January targets coming up this week because what I have sort of seen differently this season since Levy's gone is that the club seem to kind of have their ear quite close to the ground with stuff and actually do react to it rather than just scoffing at it and, you know, getting annoyed and kind of punishing fans, which is what Levy and Donna Cunnan seem to do.

47:03Jack:It's weird, isn't it? Because they did seem to have that great unwashed approach about things, didn't they? As in like, how dare they question what we're doing? It did feel almost sort of spiteful at times, didn't it?

47:15Phil:Yeah, it did. And I think, you know, not so to cut in, but I think that the former iteration of the Spurs trust would kind of say that, that they were just kind of treated with a bit of disdain and kind of as soon as anyone asked for anything like, you know, flags or singing section or 8-8-2 or anything like that, he just got their back up and they were like, we've given you, we're building you a stadium or we're doing all this sort of thing, you know. And I think that just spoke volume. So again, I think if we start to see things changing in that sense, then I feel a hell of a lot better.

47:52Jack:We've got two directors of football, mate, and yet we still have a squad that feels like it's all over the shop. And I think that's one of the things that stands out for me. We'd heard all this nonsense a few years ago that the sort of project that Spurs want to build is one where it's this whole plug-and-play approach, right? where it's not all wedded to a manager's philosophy. We have a club philosophy and the manager is a part of that. He is one component of that. So every time we sign a manager, we don't have to have a wholesale of players and all this type of thing, right? I mean, the only way in which I think we're sort of meeting that brief in terms of talent ID is that it feels like we've got lots of players who don't really fit any one particular system.

48:37Jack:And I do kind of feel like that's the problem. And it is genuinely making me feel, I've said it quite like knee-jerkly on Twitter and stuff, but actually in a more sort of considered way, it is making me feel a bit like maybe Lange and Perattici both just need Benning. Like maybe we need, because even with both of them, it still feels a bit tin pot. I'm not overly convinced by what either of them have done. I think there's hits and misses, aren't there, as there are with anything? But I think it's fair to say there's probably more misses from both of them, aren't there?

49:15Phil:Yeah, and maybe that stacks up against other DOFs, right? I don't really know. I don't really pay that much attention. You know, maybe you sign five to get one to two players who are actually decent. Maybe that's the kind of acceptable hit rate. I don't know. But yeah, I mean, you're right, especially on Paratici. I know that he's kind of seen as a bit of a saviour in some regards, but that's more of a meme, again, than anything, right? I don't know. I think you might be right. I mean, my fanfic has always been that Jan Vertonghen does his, whatever he needs to do to become a director of football and steps in.

49:48Phil:I just feel like that's, all right, I know I'm sort of being glib about it, but I feel like we need someone there who sort of understands what Tottenham is or tells us what we are, you know? rather than just kind of these, as you say, two people who seem to have opposing views on how best to kind of build a squad. But yeah, I mean, in general, I think the idea about having a squad that has good players, that it doesn't really matter who the manager in is probably the right way of doing it, because that's probably how it should work, right? And again, if Thomas Frank stepped into a squad that was better, I think he'd be doing better, right?

50:26Phil:What are we now? We've slipped down to ninth, is it? I don't know

50:30Jack:yeah let's say yeah

50:31Phil:I mean I knew I think everyone said that November was going to be particularly tough and it you know has proved to be yeah right again Copenhagen was good but I think we've got a couple of easier games coming up well certainly Fulham seems easier although that's is that at home yeah of course it is and then we've got Liverpool who knowing our luck will actually have turned things around by then and give us a shellacking but But yeah, I don't feel particularly positive. And I think another thing that you get after results like this, you get people telling you not to be upset about things. It's like, well, if I'm not going to be upset about this, then what the hell am I doing being a football fan?

51:12Phil:I'm not watching football so I can resort a column on a spreadsheet. I'm watching it so I can feel emotions. And sometimes that emotion is pain. And then you think about, well, hopefully by the time we play them hours, we can give a bit back to him. And that has to be the kind of the turnaround, right? Because we have nothing about the opposite.

51:33Jack:It has to be. It quite simply has to be. Like, did we have to give everything to that North London? And do you know what? I want your thoughts on this as well, mate. I know I'm probably verging into gammon territory. I just want now a North London derby where the club just shut the fuck up and get on with the game, where there aren't flashy promos and the wrong... This means everything to us. Fucking show us. it means everything to us before you just say it in a in a social media video i'm fucking sick to death of seeing those sort of hype videos and then just some meek performance in a game yeah yeah you know and that's yeah i was just gonna say vinai or whoever it is does have their finger on the pulse listen to that and just actually be like do you know what let's maybe have a bit of a semi blackout ahead of the next north london derby and let them let the football do the talking right

52:25Phil:it's cart before the horse, isn't it? The players need to kind of understand it. We don't need to understand it. We don't need to be told how big of a deal it is. We know. We're the ones who told you it is, right? So you pass that message on to the players and then maybe we wouldn't have to have this again. You know, and again, it's one thing to lose, right? I don't think anyone could kind of go into that game and be like, it's going to be difficult, you know, and we're probably going to lose because not just because we don't often win there for various reasons, but because Arsenal are, you know, the best team in the league at the moment.

52:57Phil:But in that manner, that's the problem, right? That's it. That's right to the heart of it, to kind of just not... And, you know, again, going back to Frank, like, yeah, fine, that worked when we played PSG against the PSG, you know, who still had their sandals on from their holidays, right? Playing the first 10 minutes of that game yesterday, players did not seem to know what the hell they were doing. why are you experimenting therefore in that game be smart start playing this two weeks ago right just get them bedded in to lead up to this because you know that this is important again naivety to think that oh we'll change it for Arsenal but we'll change it on the week beforehand rather than be like do you know what yeah all right losing to Chelsea won't be great Man United won't be great but if I actually kind of put and put a put a big marker down at the Emirates that'll sort us out and it'll be good for the team it'll be good for me I'm talking about from Frank's perspective it'd be good for the kind of whole project moving forward and maybe that's pie in the sky talk or maybe that's stupid maybe maybe that's just not how it would work at all maybe that's not how it should work but again just this idea of like changing it up and you know Mikel Arteta maybe he was lying but pre-match he said oh yeah we expected them to do that so we've planned for it and again that might just be kind of you know um just um cajoling things and you know trying to put pressure on the team but you know it didn't it didn't really come as a surprise apart it didn't come to surprise anyone but the players it seemed and I look at Wilson Odderbeer in that kind of first 20 minutes or so as an example not to kind of cast aspersions on him It looks like he was being asked to play a role that he hadn't played for us before.

54:42Phil:He didn't seem to know where he was supposed to be standing at a basic level. And again, that's not to kind of call him out necessarily. I just think it's indicative of this idea that changing it and, you know, the fact that we had five defenders on the pitch and two holding midfielders and the player coming from deep as an attacking midfielder had acres of space three times on the edge of the box to score goals. I don't know it's just it is it is just kind of it is mind-boggling have you seen the video doing

55:10Jack:the rounds it's the passage of play just before their fourth goal and it's I have not watched a second extra of it but please remind me of it just to exactly to your point mate it's despicable you know we've got a throw in I think it's just after Richarlison's goal which was unbelievable you know we have to give him that which is you know a mad goal to have um been scored it's funny because we scored pretty much an identical goal against them in preseason the game that we we won um and they were i actually went down and arson fan rabbit hole talking about that about uh something that can be exploited in their system blah blah blah whatever i don't really care um but it's essentially we've got to throw in in their half and not a single one of the fuckers wants the ball no nobody wants the ball nobody wants to be in possession of the ball so we end up throwing it back into our own half and then passing it back to the goalkeeper and then seconds later we lose the ball just outside of our box because we're dwelling in possession and as a scores his hat trick he scores the fourth goal of the night and it's all come from us having a throne in their half of the pitch um it's all come from players getting in possession and just getting rid of the ball not passing with any real intention not passing with any real plan just wanting to shed possession or just hiding you know and i think we can't that's not new to frank though is it no no no it's not but we can't we can't we can't accommodate players like that like i yesterday for me honestly that's the that is like official that's the end of it for me with ben tanker he is not he is not a player that is suited for the sort of club that Spurs want to be he just isn't I don't care about the clutching onto straws of the odd good game he has he is not physically dominant enough he is not physically mobile enough and he just does not have the character to play at that level that's probably why he's ended up at Spurs he exactly he absolutely hid yesterday He did the classic Hojbjerg thing of basically never making himself available for the pass, never looking to play a challenging or whatever ball forwards.

57:24Jack:We can put that onto Frank as well, but Bentancur has form for this. And he occupies such an important position in this team. The fact we've given him a new long-term contract makes me feel actually quite unwell.

57:38Phil:How much is it for? Because I was thinking about this. Now, he's the sort of player that, as much as all the points you've just made there about him are correct, if he became our second to third choice player that's happy to be on the bench, then that shows that our squad has improved, right? I would accept that. But if we've given him, like, close to top dollar to be our main man, then ridiculous. Can't understand it. And that's being fair about saying he's third choice, because I agree with you. I think he's completely clapped. Bless him, because it's because of injury, you know. But he's kind of realised, I think, that he can't actually do it anywhere.

58:13Phil:So if he can get a contract here, then he, again, just laughing, laughing, right? I've made it. I'm secure. I'm sorted. Tottenham, there's no pressure here because no one expects anything of us about the fans, but, you know, we ignore them anyway and don't come into contact with them. So it's fine. But, yeah, I don't know what the thinking is there.

58:34Jack:There is still stuff to be positive about, and I do mean that because I know I've been bellyaching a lot. I don't feel the thing is I don't feel overall kind of negative about Spurs I think there are things that can change there are things that there's a foundation at Tottenham Hotspur and I think this is what fuels the frustration there is a foundation at Spurs that now should be being used much in a much better way than it is I'm not sat here despondently thinking oh my god we're going to sink without a trace and we're going to become a championship side because i think the club has for all its faults for all daniel levy's faults he has set the club up in a way where we should you know should touch wood and all that sort of thing stay competitive to a certain degree however the club have built us into a club that should be competing not just treading water right And that kind of feels like what we've been doing.

59:37Jack:We're still in that sort of new stadium austerity mode where really, you know, how much longer do you want people to be patient for? You opened the ground in 2019. I understand that doesn't make debt immediately evaporate, but still, surely this had to have been factored in. You know, you're some of the sharpest business minds in the country. Daniel Levy is, again, for whatever anyone wants to say about him. is a business genius. Surely it had to be factored in that there was going to be debt out the back of the stadium and Tottenham would have to stay competitive, right? Like, I mean, this is feeling all a bit that Star Wars meme, you know, right?

1:00:19Jack:But I do think the foundation is there for Spurs to build something good. And look, football is cyclical. We're probably going to have to swallow it this year. Arsenal are probably going to win the league again and we're going to have to swallow that. We're going to have to swallow the fact that Arteta, that despicable little man, is going to forever be able to hold that, that he did it, that he got it over the line. Do you know what? In some ways, I think that's what I find more painful than the idea of Arsenal as an entity winning it. I've seen Arsenal win the league several times. I've seen them do that.

1:00:53Jack:I just hate seeing the bad guy win. And he is a bad... I'm sorry, he is the bad guy. Mikel Arteta is a piece of shit you know yeah and he's going to be validated and it you know it's it's like you know i don't know it's like andrew tate becoming director of the bbc or something i don't i don't know i can't i can't think of a ideas in anyone's head yeah to be fair yeah there's a coup there yeah they want to reclaim the uh they want to keep the the license free don't they but oh politics um yeah

1:01:23Phil:yeah um yeah i can't believe you know all the kind of odious elements of his character that you know, spoken about certainly last season, we probably won't go into detail here, but that brain and heart thing, we can't have that guy winning the league, the drawing he did, or holding a light bulb and all that, come on. But you're right, it's going to happen. And I think, you know, I've sort of accepted it. It was really stressful the last few seasons, hate watching them, hoping they didn't do it. And again, as much as the kind of alternative is still worse, it's still just best just to sort of come to terms with it.

1:01:57Phil:and I'm talking to myself in this, people can do what they want, but I just, yeah, it's clear that they are, they've just kind of, they've kept at it and they've kind of lucked out that other teams have fallen away. You know, Man City still will be there, thereabouts, but I just think Arsenal just won't have to feel any pressure. You know, this weekend could have been that. If City had won, there's a little bit more pressure on Arsenal. We, you know, we didn't play our part at all, but still, I just, I just don't think that the equations are kind of running out. it's still an early year but it's all about momentum right unless something massive happens to stop that momentum for them injuries whatever don't know but again they lost they lost gabriel yesterday and they probably the best i've seen them this season the way that they're playing all right yeah the tails were up and stuff but still um so yeah just accept it it'll be easier

1:02:48Jack:that way maybe psg on wednesday mate um you think we go three at the back again probably I reckon I reckon he will and do you think this does this add pressure to if we get a walloping against PSG does that does that put the pressure on him or is that something that can

1:03:09Phil:be chalked off is it a free hit for him almost no I think there's too much context to there I think that I mean an 8-0 job where you know the players seem to not be playing for you or kind of kicking off with each other. That's bad news. But I think a defeat in the hands of PSG away in the Champions League, I don't think is context for anything else. The bad taste of this game, yesterday's game, will still remain by then and long after that. So I don't think PSG will really kind of factor into anything.

1:03:44Jack:I mean, so what do you like from here? Because I know we sort of touched on it already, but what do you think from this point? gets Frank the chop? Do you think there's anything or do you think the club will stick with him? Because I find it really, you know, it is kind of, we've spoken about it. They have the ultimate get out of jail free card where they can say it was Levy's man. It was, you know, it was his decision, which would placate a few.

1:04:10Phil:But it does. Yeah, stuff coming out from the players. If you start seeing that, then, you know, that's curtains, isn't it? But, yeah, I mean, there doesn't seem to be a relationship between the players and Frank at the minute, right? And maybe that's just the case of a new manager coming in and getting their ideas across. It's certainly kind of a personality like his where maybe it's not so obvious, but I think that's the space to watch right out, the kind of players' body language and stuff and that. But again, that's letting them off the hook. That's always been the case. You know, players have thrown managers under the bus so many times.

1:04:48Phil:It was just as an aside to this, Aaron Lennon was talking on, remember they were doing that Spurs podcast on YouTube. I don't know if they're doing it anymore. But he spoke on that and he spoke about AVB, who we were all like, oh, they hated him. You know, they couldn't wait to get rid of him. They all absolutely loved him, according to Aaron Lennon. But those players still down tools on him, right? So it's just this weird kind of disconnect between footballers and their responsibility to actually kind of... put a tackle in or kind of keep up with someone or kind of be brave in the moment. But yeah, so I think, I think that's what gets in the chop when, when the players are sort of ducking out of it.

1:05:32Well,

1:05:32Jack:shall I like pivot to talking about on here, mate? Cause I, I don't know if I can do this for any longer. Do you know what I mean? How many, how many more times do I have to out the back of a game like this reflect on Spurs getting battered by Arsenal only to be told by like loads of listeners. That was a really negative pod today. do you know i mean if you if you are if you do feel like you want to say that to me today can you just not can you just do what i do when i when i listen i listen to podcasts right can you just be like that wasn't quite my cup of tea today and then maybe just maybe just don't listen to the next couple of episodes and then come back to me when you know you feel like i might be in a better frame of mind that happens to me with some pods sometimes i listen to them i think no i didn't really vibe with them today i don't feel compelled to send them a message We just lost 4-1 to Arsenal.

1:06:17Jack:If I'm not allowed to have a moan today, when can I? Do you know what I mean? Has anyone said that to you?

1:06:22Phil:Or are you just kicking off at the imaginary school?

1:06:24Jack:A little bit. There's been a little bit, but not – overwhelmingly on the stream last night, basically everyone, even a lot of old faces who are all like, yeah, you know, give them a bit of time. Most people are like, get that fucking bacon-munching nonce out of my club. Do you know what I mean? That wasn't people's words, but you're allowed to say that. It's not punching down, it's sideways punching, isn't it? Britain's, Brits, Danes, it's sort of, you know, you can do that, can't you?

1:06:53Phil:They pull us through in the 12th century or whatever. But yeah, I mean, I think it's all right to be upset. I think that's what football is, you know, if you're just kind of, if you're only being happy about everything, I think you're kind of missing the point because football is about the kind of swings of emotion. When you're down here and it is the worst. but the upswing, whenever that may be, that's what makes it worth it. So for kind of getting in your soapbox and saying that you don't want to hear someone being angry about something. And again, I think that there's a point to constantly moaning about everything, even when things are good, that's a bit different.

1:07:31Phil:But venting about getting slapped up for one by Arsenal to a guy, especially that we flopped in trying to sign. tell me another football scenario which you shouldn't be getting angry about if not that so yeah I think it's fine but also yeah if you don't like it then don't send us any messages Phil

1:07:56Jack:is there anything we haven't spoken about from yesterday anything at all I don't think there is

1:08:01Phil:I haven't done any sort of combing over of it I only just watched Frank's post match just before this because I thought I'd better do just to kind of see what he said. But I think switching off is an option. You know, as much as you want to spend time on Twitter, you want to listen to podcasts, you want to go on Reddit, you want to go on YouTube, you want to speak to your mates, you can just not. It makes it better.

1:08:22Jack:It's a bit annoying that the Northland doubles are like the afternoon game on the Sunday because on my Saturday, I'd gone for like a nice long walk. I watched like, oh, I saw you. And I watched one of the Lord of the Rings extended editions, Fellowship of the Ring. and I was like oh god that was nice you know I had a bottle of wine it was on it was a perfect day and then yesterday came along and I needed a day like my Saturday to get over yesterday this is not fair again why is everything attacking me why why why is everything in this universe uniquely set up to get at me at me just me me alone it does feel like that doesn't it in in the in the throes of it you're like this someone someone is doing this on purpose

1:09:05Phil:because this can't just be explainable by chaos theory can it this is coordinated this is coordinated attack i just haven't seen the pattern yet you're in you're in you know we

1:09:16Jack:talk about simulation theory you are we are perhaps in some complex habbo hotel or remember habbo hotel back in the day or the sims should we say can you imagine if you're if you're somebody's avatar but you're the avatar of some nihilistic horrible little twerp that wants to keep like just building the walls around you like in the sims yeah i'm i'm i'm an avatar of me

1:09:44Phil:that's what i do in the sims maybe that's it maybe sims was like a proving ground that however

1:09:48Jack:you played it you would be it would be wrought upon you by the demons by the demons um right them. Wow. Thanks, Phil. Yeah, thanks. Thanks a lot.

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