Rebuilding Tottenham Hotspur | Paul O'Keefe on Striker Gossip, Outgoings & De Zerbi's Power (Q&A)

26:13Jack:We've had to say Howard at BLP Coys says, Big money midfielder, who's your money on? He says, I can't see Anderson and Morgan Gibbs-White leaving in the same window, so that should rule Morgan Gibbs-White out. And I mean, look, I can't imagine old mate selling Morgan Gibbs-White to Tottenham either after last year, right? Maranakis. Yeah, I really don't see that. In the sense of I don't see it happening because once City going at 100 plus million for Anderson, which they did, I believe, it was rejected. Once you're at that level, then City aren't going to miss out on him for$5 million. They're already at$120 million.

26:53And apparently it's how they make up that money. Nottingham Forest wanted it to be a British transfer record and they want it to be guaranteed sum of the record. So any add-ons will be minuscule in comparison. And I think City are apparently up to about$120 million, so they're not far off. So I think that deal is probably going to happen with Anderson. It would be very surprising if Forest agreed to lose$125 million this summer. That would be mental behaviour. However, he is slightly mental, as we realise. But yeah, they're not going to then sell Gibbs White for, say, 80, 85 or 90 to Tottenham.

27:27Yes, they will have got 200 plus million, but they'll have basically destroyed any hopes of them doing anything next season. So I can't see that one happening. And there's such a shortage of players in the transfer market that are realistically available this summer. And nearly every position is a struggle. I mean, the centre-forward position is a diabolical mess for every club looking for a striker. It's mad that there's literally no one of sort of real calibre and sort of, you know, real Premier League proven exact, you know, that sort of stuff available. There's no talk of strikers going anywhere.

28:05So that's really difficult. So they do have a list. They've got a list, obviously, with the forwards and they've got midfielders on their radar are and everyone keeps going on about Alex Scott and they are a fan of Scott so there's not there's not a question of them not liking the player it's a question of will will they bite the bullet and and spend sort of 80 90 million quid on on him or a another and you know it's it's it's a tricky one because we're just not that attractive we might be to Scott obviously because people are and say, oh, he's a Spurs fan. But if you're competing against Manchester United or Liverpool, you know, it's really tricky to get those players in.

28:47Jack:I do wonder though, and I get it, I know people will have their reasons as to why it would be a good or a bad deal. We've got players like him, we don't. Scott, for me, having a Spurs fan in that sort of position, a big money signing, pictures of him as a kid wearing a Spurs shirt and stuff, it's something that, you know, like I was talking about before, in the soul of everything a bit. It's just, we need a bit of that. I mean, I think he's super talented. I'm sure there are people that could give me lots of metrics that would suggest that he's no better than Bergvall or something. But I test whatever I would say he looks like a dynamic, tenacious and very talented young footballer.

29:29Jack:It'd be nice if we could get somebody like that in, obviously. Absolutely. it does you know it does make me wonder about we saw sort of deserve he didn't we obviously take a look at Bergvau and Gray who are both I think they're both very very talented young players but I got the feeling at least anyway from the fact they didn't really figure much under him after the first after the deserve his first game that he sort of agreed with what I think a lot of us do is that those two lads aren't really ready yet like they're very young and we've probably relied no he's definitely relied on them far too much haven't we since we signed them yeah absolutely yeah i mean poor archie's been pushed from pillar to post i think he's played everywhere apart from in goal haven't he literally literally like i mean we're not even like we're not that's not even for effect you know like sort of take we're not taking the piss here but that's actually been the case he's literally been you know um pushed from pillars post and i think that he gets a bit of an unfair sort of slap around around the face from a lot of fans but for not sort of them not appreciating just how difficult that is to walk into a Premier League club at 18 or whatever he was, 19 now.

30:36He's had about, well, he must, he's had four different managers, you know. I mean, a lot of them have, obviously, in this current season. He's seen untold turmoil. He's moved from, obviously, family and wherever to live in London and all that sort of stuff. And he's a young boy. I mean, 19, 20, I don't even think I should have been allowed that alone. Do you know what I mean? And these guys have got the sort of weight of expectation on top of them and the stature of being at a club like Spurs and that sort of pressure. And I think it's quite remarkable, really, that he's handled himself so well in the first instance, to be honest with you.

31:13And I think there's a lot of interest in Archie as well, from abroad in particular. And there's a lot of managers that really sort of think that he is a very, very special talent. and just unfortunately, he hasn't had the right circumstances yet at Tottenham to show it. I mean, we've seen players

31:31Jack:with an awful lot more seniority than Archer Gray not enjoy the past two seasons of Tottenham, right? Because as you say, playing for Spurs, there is a level of pressure. Playing for any sort of big club, there's a level of pressure that comes with that. Playing for a big club that's clinging on so it doesn't get historically relegated is another story in a pretty exceptional circumstance, right? And I don't know, I find it quite annoying. I think it's pretty short-sighted, to be honest, if I'm to be polite about it, for people to be digging him out in particular. And like you say, people do it a lot.

32:09Jack:Spurs fans do it a lot. And I can't understand it. Because when I see him, I just see a raw, but very talented player. And of course he's going to be raw. Like you say, we signed him when he was 17 years old. You can look at his face. He's a little boy, you know, like being real about it. Like, I think, I don't know. I don't know if it's the internet. I don't know if it's 24-7 coverage of football. I just think there's something, there's some sort of disconnect with the way that like we look at players. I'm as guilty. I'm as guilty of it as anybody is as well. Don't get me wrong. But there is some sort of disconnect about like the way in which we look at players a bit now.

32:46Jack:I think that we're so quick to make these like rash judgments on him. no he's no good he's he's brilliant this one's useless he'll never get any better it's like people have just forgotten that players can be coached like it was only a few years ago Maurizio Pochettino turned Danny Rose who everyone thought of as some flop into one of the into one of the best players in this position in in Europe you know probably in the world so yeah you know the right like you say the right circumstances present themselves the right people the right energy around a club. And these sort of players can make people look very silly, can't they?

33:21He's never really been in a settled environment at Tottenham in the time that he's been there, which is probably two years, which is mad, really. He's not had a consistent manager. He's not had a consistent position. He's not had opportunities consistently. It's been really sort of all over the show, hasn't it? So the one thing Tottenham need is to bring a bit of stability. you know hopefully under Roberto that's going to be the case and they have to sort of really buy into him because I don't think they have much choice now they have to sort of give him the keys almost um and let him get on with it and that's the way you're going to build back that trust with the fans as well because everyone can see already that that that he's bought into the club um you can tell that he's going to have a great relationship with the fans he's you know he's and at the moment anyway obviously it can turn once if results were to turn so yeah I mean there's reasons to be cheerful.

34:14I think we shouldn't be all sort of doom and gloom. I think there is optimism there, but I think this year, I think people are already trying to make that leap too soon. I think it will be his second season where we should be expecting sort of Champions League not necessarily qualification, but Champions League competing for it as a bare minimum.

34:34Jack:We've had another good question here from Jay at Transfer Lens says, it would be good to know about the players we are looking to move on. What Paul thinks is likely. I think there's a long list to get rid of. Oh gosh, yeah. Where do you start? I mean, there must be a good dozen that there would be sort of not standing in the way of walking out of the club. So obviously, Vicario, if you start with the goalkeepers, the ideal scenario for everyone concerned is he gets a move to Italy, I think, this summer. whether that transpires and whether these clubs in Italy will pay the sort of money that Tottenham will say is reasonable which is probably about 25 mil I suppose will be well yet to be seen whether that actually comes to fruition but in an ideal world he will leave Tottenham this summer and I think that suits all parties and then obviously you've got your defence so you're looking at Christian obviously I think most people in their heart of hearts go, do you know what?

35:40It might be time now. Yes, he's an outstanding footballer. Yes, he's a brilliant centre-back, but there's always some sort of niggling doubt with him and there's something in the back of everyone's head that says, I'm not quite sure. And I think I tweeted the other day, in the last two seasons, his appearances have sort of tumbled in total numbers. So we've already started, if you like, planning for his departure. It appears anyway. So, yeah, you could talk about Kuti all night, but ultimately and the rights and wrongs of how he plays or how he behaves when he goes back to Argentina because every time he goes on international duty, a story appears without fail.

36:25So all that sort of stuff. We had that Ferrari, didn't we, with him, where he was attending the last game and he flew back. I mean, that shouldn't even get to that stage. how did that even get out but you know it's not it's just a sideshow it's becoming a sideshow with him as well which you know i don't think i personally had the patience for it let him go he really wants to leave the club let him go where he'll go that's another question entirely because i don't actually believe there's as much interest as people think i don't think there's going to be a massive clamor for him and i think the club will be lucky to get sort of 40 to 50 million for him back to be honest so then christian obviously and then you got dragusin obviously I mean just let him go just if you can get pay someone to take him yeah if you can get 10-15 million for him and then fucking fuck him and his agent off I think you do that deal straight away because these are just a pest then you go over to say the left side you've got obviously four left backs in theory so you'll have you'll have Destiny, Ben Souza and obviously Andy Robinson so something's got to give there Interesting one, what do you do if you get a 45, say,£45 million bid for Hidogi?

37:40That would be interesting. Obviously, the lad has been unlucky with injuries. His form has suffered as a result of the injuries, so maybe potentially a question to answer there, but I doubt they let him go or doubt they actively try and move him on, so that means you'd send the other lad out on loan. And then you've got midfield, you've got Pape. What do you do with Pape and Lucas and Archie? I don't think he'd sell Archie, to be fair, but I think Pape, maybe, if they get a bid, you'd let him go.

38:12Lucas, I'm not sure whether De Zerbe's having him, but it's only been half a dozen games, isn't it? So it's hard to tell. I don't know what you think on that one, Lucas. Did you see he had a fairly...

38:24Jack:I mean, look, to be fair, the lad's concentrating on the World Cup. He did say something fairly, not cryptic, but I think it at least hinted at the fact that he was considering things at Spurs because he was basically asked, you know, was he sort of relieved that Tottenham stayed up and everything? And if I recall correctly, this was to Swedish media. He said that like, yeah, obviously big sigh of relief, but I didn't really play much of a part in it or something. He said it was something like that. It was something to that degree, which, you know, I think maybe people are jumping on it or whatever, but you know what this time of year is.

39:02Jack:I mean, you know exactly what this time of year is like, Paul, with that type of stuff. So I believe there was something of a quote like that going around. So whether that means that, you know, he's not happy or if he's just speaking, you know, in that Scandinavian blunt, straight to the point way, matter of fact, which is, you know, is a thing. I'm not being xenophobic. Is, you know, is up for debate. But, you know, I'm a big fan of Lucas Bova. But I do think, you know, when we've seen him in, like you say, a more settled environment, when we've seen him kind of playing in a strictly sort of number eight role where he can pick the ball up, move it about, occupy space, run into space, run into gaps left by the opposition.

39:47Jack:He does look like a pretty talented young player. But again, I just sort of wonder if we've relied on somebody too young too much. When really like, you know, even Spurs not that long ago would have been looking at a player like Bergvau, like they did somebody like, if I can think of another example, someone like Lewis Holtby at one point, where we drop them in every now and again, see what they're about. And then, you know, like within Holtby's case, they decided he wasn't up too much. It feels like part of the problem that Spurs have had is with Bergvau and Gray in particular, is that obviously we've had a lot of injuries, but because we spent so much on them, I guess there's been pressure from above to maybe see them feature more.

40:30Jack:You know, I guess long story short on whether or not I'd let him go, he is kind of one of those players where if the rumours are to be believed that a Liverpool or a Chelsea want to drop 50-60 on him, I think there's a conversation to be had there. Look, I wouldn't be packing his bags for him and pushing him out the door like I would be dragging him, right? But I'm saying I think there's a more awkward conversation to be had if if we got offered a sizable fee for somebody like Bergvau and I'm just thinking you know you're developing Gray you're developing Bergvau how many opportunities are there for either of them that they're not the same type of player but they occupy a similar position on the pitch they probably fulfill a similar function you might argue that trying to develop both of them in tandem probably isn't good for either of them that we need to maybe nail our colours to the mask with one of those two and see what happens but I don't know, I'm not a coach, I don't know how this stuff works, that's just my Yeah and Spurs Yeah and Spurs have accumulated in that midfield players that are pretty much all of the same similar sort of ilk, I mean you know the only one that's come in and made a significant difference returning from injury has been Rob Rico, who's been unbelievable since he came back and I would credit him with pretty much keeping and Spurs up, you know, being sort of a crucial, crucial part of those last few games.

41:59And then obviously you've got the Jow situation. Now, you know, I get lambasted on X for my opinions on Jow, but I think people sort of misunderstand what I'm trying to say. What I was trying to say with Tottenham and him last season was in their situation and predicament, right, when they need to shore up games, they need to shore up a midfield, they need to have that balance of, you know, someone who's going to basically put in a few and stick a few tackles on people and sort of be a bit more sort of, you know, sort of chest-thumping almost, if you like. Then you need someone like Jaipelina with that experience in your squad in a relegation battle.

42:36I'm not expecting him to play 30-yard and 40-yard screamers to the left winger or the right winger and ping it all over the shop. So he served a purpose. Now, he served a purpose magnificently because him and Rodrigo at the end of the season basically kept talking them up. But going forward, you've got to have aspirations that you get a midfielder in that's got the progressive passing and all that sort of stuff. And if you look at Jao, then if he doesn't stay, then you've got to, in my opinion, you've got to then throw the bag at Palace for Wharton. If you're going to let Jao walk out of the club, which is absolutely fine, I would get the footballing reasons to do that because they need to be getting in more progressive players.

43:20I've got the back three who are going to be very progressive, as we said. So essentially, then you've got to go and then think who is available, who could we possibly get? It's an upgrade for them, not necessarily the massive upgrade to Champions League football, but then you've got to throw everything at Adam Wharton. You've got to bite the bullet, and you've got to go and pay the 80 to 100 million quid for it, and you've got to get that footballer in. For me, for him as well, and it's an opportunity to do the next step in his career.

43:51Jack:Because it feels like we've only got so long. Everyone's a bit distracted by Elliot Anderson at the moment, right? Yes. There's that window now where I feel... Because I agree with you. For me, he's a transformative signing for Tottenham. That puts us right back on track for competing at the very top of the table again, in my opinion. There's three players in the league that are absolutely elite in that area of the field. And they are Anderson, who we don't have a prayer with him. Adam Wharton and Declan Rice. Those three are the elite in that area that can play the six, the eight, that they can do all of that in the midfield.

44:35And the one that we realistically could attract, I think, is Wharton. But you're going to have to go and show the ambition and you're going to have to go and lay down 80 to 100 million quid to give them a serious problem to answer. Because you're not going to pick him up for 40 million and we'll send you Richarlison on loan and all this sort of nonsense deals. That's not going to happen. They're going to have to put down some serious money. Please. Just come on. Also, though, I mean, people say, oh, that's just stupid talk. But who else is there realistically that is that level that is going to take you to the next level and we don't want to go down that road of buying the 30, two 30 million players that, 30 million pound players that might be good in a year's time.

45:22They might be good in, no, we need to be ready now to sort of push onto that next level. And if you want to say you're ambitious and you're, you want the same success as the fans and all, you can't keep, we're going to increase our wage bill. We're going to increase our funding on transfers. You can't keep saying all that shit without slapping down some serious bids and if we get knocked back I'd accept that fine but you've shown the intent was there from from the off that you want to go and attract those players you know I'm harsh on him and I think

45:51Jack:probably a lot of people are kind of harsh on him and I think it's it's largely because you know he's he's become like the face of a bigger problem at Spurs down the last years but you know like the signing of somebody like Connor Gallagher who is a talented enough footballer he seems like a nice enough kid but it doesn't move the needle for Tottenham does it really you know he's he's he's the sort of he's the level of player where you know we got him for whatever it was 30 million something like that with very very little cop with no competition at all to sign him yeah yeah you know on a massive salary which is probably a bit of a problem for Spurs in a to a degree but you know there's there's that's just what it is isn't it you're kind of like fine you know whatever got a bit of spirit and all that type of thing but like you say if you really you really want the club to be serious you really want to have a squad that is befitting of that stadium you've built that brand yeah yeah yeah yeah it's players like what and that's just it now and this this this is the thing for enic right isn't it this is the thing now is that you you've you've pretended to be a big club for a long time you built the you built the ground and you've said we want to compete and we want to do this we want to do that you've got to do it now you have to do it because Because, yeah, you can't keep talking a good game.

47:07Jack:Why else are you bothering? Exactly, exactly, exactly. Yeah, you can't keep talking a good game. And then, you know, as we were talking about earlier, they're going to have to do something this summer that ultimately makes the football world sit up and go, actually, these people are serious, right? They've obviously been scared from last year, which every ride should be, and they should have been absolutely shitting themselves. So go out there and make a statement. And you've already got two really good deals over the line in Senesi and Robertson. So you've not spent a penny there, essentially, apart from the wage bill.

47:47So that should free up funds for a massive signing, or an attempt at a massive signing. And if you're going to throw$85 million at Forrest for Gibbs White, then you might as well throw it at Palace because I think that's more... You've got more opportunity of that being taken because ultimately Palace have proved that they eventually will just... just sell their players they sold obviously elise they sold obviously as a um mark gay he obviously was you know a bit protracted but at the end of the day left the club so then they got a fee for him and they sold him so you know it's it's very much up to enic to sort of go out there and make a statement now and the same with senate forward as well they've got to do the same with

48:25Jack:senate forward yeah i mean aiden um asked if there's any gossip about what's going to happen with strikers you know we've already sort of covered that in this one haven't we like you're saying it's just it's difficult there's not really a lot of players that you know Julian Alvarez Fletico Madrid have just turned down 150 million pounds of euros either way for for him and that's you know that's the type of player that is the step up from your sort of run of the mills right you know Julian Alvarez is the sort of player that probably wins Arsenal a Champions League if they sign him you know is the difference between someone like a joker as who all right it's been sort of all right for them in the premier league but looks probably like more like the sort of player we'd sign right then uh than somebody from a from a club that's trying to win the lot but yeah yeah there is a there is a was having this debate about english strikers yesterday at the onyx and um there is just a lack of that old traditional sort of proper number nine now they They have to be much more adaptable to playing out wide, playing deep, playing the false nine role, blah, blah, blah.

49:31So the actual traditional, I mean, you imagine it, Gary Lineker at the moment, if he was to be on the scene these days, probably wouldn't get a top sort of top club in the Premier League because obviously you can't just sort of stand around in the box and wait for the ball to be delivered now anymore. It just doesn't work. So, yeah, it's quite interesting with the striker thing. They've obviously got people on the list. Marcus Rashford is on their list as a potential I don't think that it's massively realistic in terms of I think it's sort of they're obviously concentrating on Savino and I saw that Manchester City had put out or someone had put out that they haven't received any communication from Tottenham they have because basically intermediaries are dealing with that on their behalf so there hasn't been direct club to club talk because the agents are talking to each other to try and sort out how the deal is going to be structured and what's going to happen so that was a bit of new you know sort of you need to take that pinch of salt so they are they are trying to trying to sign uh Savino up front and the other one who who who's been brought to their attention is Thiago at Brentford so that's that's not something that's entirely ruled out but it would depend from what I understand on Richarlison leaving the club um which is tricky because richie richie would die for for tottenham he'd run through brick walls for tottenham which is an admirable quality to have but then you can't miss them five yards out um no matter how much you tell him he can't stay thick honey that's the problem yeah no matter how much you love the club and uh you love the fans and you you you go out there wanting to sort of run through brick walls for them you can't miss miss it from four yards and get away with it.

51:19And Spurs have been actively trying to sort of move him on for the last two, three seasons. So, yeah, he might survive the cull again. Who knows?

51:30Jack:It's obviously first day of the World Cup, Paul. You got World Cup fever now? I've been pretty much turning my nose up here for the past few weeks, but now it's here, I'm like, go on then, go on then. I love it. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I can't, like you said, I didn't, do you know what? up to about three days ago i didn't realize it was starting this week i thought bloody hell what the hell but then i realized it's 64 it's expanded isn't it so it's bigger this time and i mean for me i'm a night person so i don't i don't mind the sort of two three o 'clock in the morning kickoff so i'm quite happy with that but um there's some random you're gonna be up then you're gonna be up watching oh yeah yeah yeah i i don't go i i will i will stay up and watch the games yeah if they're if they're of half decent quality i don't think i'll be staying up for sort of Jordan v Slovakia or something like that.

52:15But yeah, the group stages is always a good fun, isn't it? Because there's normally three, four games sort of one after the other, which is really cool. But yeah, and England play, is it the 17th, is it? I don't know. I think so, yeah. It's next week sometime. It's been quite interesting because there's been no hype in this country about England and their chances of winning the World Cup, is there? I mean, you know, that bloody Three Lions song, I haven't heard it yet. I've managed to avoid it. So, yeah, there's not people driving around. It does feel a bit more subdued. You're right. I do think that.

52:47And I wonder if that does England a favour, actually. There's no one really expecting them to win it, do they? Did you expect them to win it? I don't expect them to win it. I think quarterfinals is sort of the barometer. Maybe the world would be a semi-final.

53:02Jack:This year, I think there's obviously a lot of very good teams. I don't think there's anyone that's like, except, I mean, the French are always like great, but. France and Spain, surely. I've not really looked, but France, obviously, massively powerful, especially the front three, ridiculous. And Spain, they're beautiful football to watch, aren't they? So I think if England get to the semis, that's a very good achievement, to be fair. England, though. We've got Harry Kane. We've got Harry Kane, Paul, best player in the world at the moment right now. Yeah, but the two best players in the world for me play for Bayern Munich, Harry and Michael.

53:38Unbelievable. at least he is an unbelievable footballer ridiculous he's got an obscene goal for france every night actually oh mate he is he is if you're going to pay that sort of massive massive money then not for not spares i'm not talking about spares i'm just saying in in sort of fantasy football he could be an 180 million pound player you could see that there was just something about

54:01Jack:it wasn't it even when he was at palace like yeah obviously as he's always been a very good player and I'm not going to revise history on that. But you know how they were always linked, sort of lumped together, Eze and Alise? Alise was always like leagues above him, you know? Like Alise, you could sort of see from quite early, was destined for the top, wasn't it? Yeah, exactly. He's outrageous. One of the best players to watch in the world. And he's proven it time and time again this season. He's just been ridiculous, him and Harry. And Harry's been unbelievable. I mean, Harry, you know, that move to Germany, many people go, it's a Farmers League and all that.

54:37You've still got to go there. You've still got to adjust. You've still got to, you know, that having spent his whole life at Tottenham as well, people forget that. You know, he wasn't, he's not used to training in a different environment. I know that sounds really silly, but just the day-to-day. Oh, it's true though. It's true. Just the day-to-day part of being in a foreign country, not knowing people, and he's gone there and he's ripped it apart. And I don't get it.

54:56Jack:It's the pressure in it playing for those institutional clubs at Bayern's, Man United's, Liverpool's, it's those Real Madrid it's those type of clubs there's a lot of pressure with that yeah and he'd have gone there with people expecting him to go and pull it to shreds but then that doesn't always happen but he's gone there he looks at an even better footballer now which is you know as crazy as it is to say because he's obviously learned when to make the runs when not to because of his you know as you do get older you sort of get more intelligent with the football the way he plays he's just been ridiculous and he should with the Ballon d 'Or no question absolutely no question fingers crossed he wins a World Cup and then a Ballon d 'Or oh amazing we'll see Paul it's always a pleasure mate thanks very much for coming on and yeah enjoy enjoy summer enjoy the World Cup mate enjoy those late nights as well I appreciate it thanks a lot