Roberto De Zerbi To Tottenham? | Tudor Sacked, Fan Concerns & Seven Games To Save Spurs

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1:48Jack:hello everybody welcome back to rule the rooche podcast mr conor mummery are you still reeling from the departure of Igor Tudor yesterday on a Sunday afternoon? Oh, yeah, I have to take a day off work, mate. It's just worse than potch, arguably. I've never got so attached to a man. Were you mid roast beef? Do you know what I mean? Royal Britannia on the record player in the background? I was driving and then Erin Doors rang me and said, obviously, I don't look at my phone when I drive. Rang me and said, oh, you went to speak. Big of you. Yeah, it's good of me. I stopped a couple of weeks ago. yeah she rang me and said he's gone it's been a bit of a shrug really that was about it then I moved on it's not at all a surprise is it really I mean between his personal circumstances and the football I think we all knew it was coming didn't we yeah I mean I even managed to sort of convince myself I think I even messaged in one of the Whatsapps Igor Trudor is the bollocks after the Athletic go second.

2:53Following on from I thought, I think we found one here actually. Turns out I was wrong. But yeah.

3:01Jack:I mean, I feel like he was turning a bit of a corner. Well, fuck me. Yeah, straight into a brick wall. They were running a lot. You know, they were running through those brick walls for him. That's good. Yeah, we ran more than Forrest. That's good. Running back towards our own goal mainly. So, Con, like, Obviously, I can tell you're not that arsed that Igor Tudor has gone. Bad appointment from the very beginning, wasn't it? Really? I think we all knew it was. It puts further scrutiny upon Finau van Kotechen and Johan Langer. I mean, everyone's sort of blaming Langer for this. How responsible is he for the managerial stuff?

3:41Jack:I know he probably is for the players. Really, isn't it? It's hard to tell because I think his remit was basically to bring in, you know good young players and that I mean he seems to be running the show with with Vinay now when you look at what comes out from Tottenham and you know the videos they put out it just sort of seems that it's him and Vinay and obviously the Lewis family um in charge of running things I don't actually know what his responsibilities are whether or not he's involved at all in the hiring and firing of managers I don't know but it's just one of the things one of the many things that's not remotely clear about the top level at Tottenham.

4:20Jack:So, I mean, do you buy into the idea that somebody, I mean, we're obviously going to get onto Roberto De Zabi here, is going to be our next manager by the looks of things, barring something pretty drastic happening. Do you think there is enough time to save Tottenham Hotspur Football Club? Because ultimately, this is what a lot of the conversation, whoever it is that's coming in the door, this is what a lot of the conversation should rotate around. are the players there or is the rot already in so whoever's there are they going to be able to implement the system are they going to be able to galvanize this unit or is the writing on the wall i mean that that's what we have to ask ourselves isn't it i think there is time because it obviously there's still seven games to go and we're not actually in the relegation zone believe it or not we haven't actually been in there yet um so there's obviously still time for us to stay up um I think again a lot of it as we know is going to depend on West Ham Forest and Leeds I mean obviously it all seems really really really bleak after Forest as it was but you know we're still a win off you know leapfrogging Leeds into 15th and then it looking quite a bit brighter but I don't know I don't think it's too late by any means as you say we'll get on to the Zerbe but whether or not he's the right man to come and do this instantly because someone like him and you've seen every club he's been at it can take a bit of time to get players adapted but yeah it might just be the total shock that the players need to be honest and I think they're more likely to be buying into something if they think it's a longer term thing than if they if we got Harry Redknapp in for seven games who to be honest like I get the clamor sort of I doubt any half of the squad have heard of him like it's the same for like Tim Sherwood and stuff like that I think I actually do think he will be quite a well-respected name among players in terms of his managerial status and yeah I by no means think it's it's it's too late I mean I do still think maybe three wins would probably do it for us um whether or not that comes with Sunderland I don't know yeah Phil was saying to me that uh he can see this like everyone getting all excited about the idea of Tottenham going down and he can see us just kind of grinding out our survival this season that you know obviously we're very relieved and delighted about that everyone else will be disappointed but it won't be this kind of big dramatic thing that everybody's sort of thinking it might be and you've got a yeah i mean that's what that's what we got hope for right now um i mean look we're naturally gonna sort of talk about deservey because you know as you've just done there i think it's right to um But I guess more in just a, say, an unattached sense, are you surprised that we've gone for or are pushing so hard for that permanent manager versus, say, the more temporary thing?

7:09Jack:Because I completely hear your point and it's an interesting perspective on it in that the players might be more bought into somebody who they feel is going to be the gaffer long-term, especially if they see it as somebody who... you know if they see that the club is trying to actually be successful not be a kind of you know a farce that's kicking the can down the road if you like i guess the only the only question is is that you know has i mean we can ask this of deservey in particular but not many managers i would imagine that we would want on a permanent basis would have been in this situation the scrap if you like and that's kind of why not really but slightly the idea of like a dice appeal to me for seven games purely because you know he's sort of he's he's made his name out of this sort of mud football hasn't he um whereas again the sort of the the high profile appointment who is again brought in with one eye on getting into the champions league competing at the top end of the table again again it feels like uh the priority the energy is is off that they're not taking the threat of relegation seriously i mean look last night they announced that they're doing a pre-season tour to new zealand again yeah really excited which which will finish i believe days before the championship season starts so you know i guess part part of it is acting with your chest out and saying no we're not going to get sucked into talk of relegation and another part is are they taking this seriously i guess there's quite a bit to cover off there con pick out from that what you can well i didn't think they were taking it remotely seriously i don't think it entered their mind until they sent out that email about season tickets and pushing that date back um that was the first time i sort of thought that they had yeah realized just quite how extreme the scenario was for us um i i think that they think they've tried the firefighter interim and it's gone really badly i mean obviously sean dyche is a bit of a specialist at this sort of thing but so is equal tudor um obviously not in the premier league which i think was yeah i think that was sort of the the most alarming thing when it was announced was that he had absolutely no experience not even playing in the Premier League compared to someone like Deitch.

9:34But again, I don't think someone like Deitch is going to get these players on board. And I don't think we're going to defend our way out of this. I do think we have to play on our terms and be more front-footed and attacking. Because I think a lot of that is what this squad was built for, the majority of the squad anyway. Maybe take Jaipelina out of that. But I do think it's what this squad is built for. And I do think that's how they want to play. I do think they're quite clearly their heads dropped when they were being asked to do the opposite of that for the majority of this season. So, yeah, I think they've played out the interim gig and I think they've gone for what they think is probably the best currently available manager who could potentially stay on beyond this season because obviously, even if we did get someone like Sean Dyche who apparently wanted 18 months and he did keep us up, none of the fans would be on board.

10:28I can't imagine anyway with him staying on from next season onwards if we did stay in the Premier League. Whereas if someone like De Zerbe comes in and we, you know, actually start seeing some decent football for the first time this season, then, and we do stay up obviously, then I do think, you know, quite a lot of fans will be on board with him, which is where I think they've tried to go with this. Do you feel that Tudor's been,

10:57Jack:chinky's been sort of unfairly unfairly characterized because i feel like not characterized but i feel like the last few days there's been a lot of press talking about you know his tenure being an unmitigated disaster i saw our mutual friend dan kilpatrick on sky sports saying that you know tudor's a disaster that he was worse than frank and and all that type of stuff i did sort of feel that for a while but i did start like you know i was joking about at the top but i did start to feel a bit like we were seeing some some positive signs but i guess i guess we did we got done three nil at home by nottingham forest exactly yeah well yeah uh no i i do think it was a disaster and i do think the crit's didn't fair um yeah he had seven games in all competitions we conceded 20 goals um a couple of them you could possibly put down to his decision to put anton and kinski in in madrid but we were just absolutely leaking goals and you're never backed us to keep a clean sheet.

11:54We didn't keep a clean sheet under him, did we, obviously? One point from five games in the Premier League, great that it came at Anfield, but, you know, Liverpool, this current Liverpool are not very good. That might sound a bit harsh on Igor Tudor, but they're not. Nottingham Forest won three now at Anfield this season under Sean Dyche. Yeah, it was absolutely an unmitigated disaster. and I you know with this with the context of piling in on a bloke who's just obviously gone through a horrible personal tragedy is you know it's not particularly palatable but as a sort of managerial reign I don't think it really could have gone much worse I think yeah it is important

12:34Jack:to flag that but you know look I know it won't be to everybody's taste but at the same time I think you know you can deal with these two issues separately can't you you know I think it's right to acknowledge that he's obviously going through a horrible time personally and also call into question his sort of yeah managerial ability prior to to said tragedy um i just i can't believe how much he over complicated things and how convoluted you know i think that was it yeah that was it for me a bit as well the team selections the way we were playing the sort of erratic changes game to game the you know pretty much always playing three center halves but not always playing three at the back quite often having two right fullbacks on the pitch um archie gray playing 33 different positions uh yeah it's really not what we needed at that time at all um i mean listen i know deserby has played three at the back at marseille but you know a lot most of the time at brighton it was four at the back and i really really do think we need to play four at the back now that is about the extent of my tactical analysis but i would really like us to play four at the back and just stick to that because we do not have the squad or the defenders for three at the back 4-4-2, wallop, meat and potatoes, up the pitch, get it in the mixer.

13:46Yeah, yeah, that's exactly, I imagine that's De Zerbi's first team tour, just with a bit of an accent.

13:50Jack:Yeah, in a demixer, like that. Yeah, exactly, yeah, something like that. I was talking about this on one of my posts, it's not racist, is it? What? I can't be racist to an Italian. The amount of times I've heard you say those four words. Yeah.

14:08um no it's not more maybe a bit gentle xenophobia which you know never really heard anyone did it it's funny isn't it mario you know new english accents and laugh at us it's a me mario you know

14:20Jack:exactly yeah all that i was i was right i was born and raised and all that sort of stuff you know yeah no it's different in my day yeah i think it's absolutely fine i don't think you have a problem with it nowadays you can't control a blocky eight-bit plumber and have him jump down pipes and say it's a me mario anymore without somebody you know locking you up and throwing you in jail and all that you know it's it's it's disgrace um so look we're on we're on woke we're on stuff about people getting cancelled so roberto deserbe um before we talk about him as a football manager i think let's just let's just get it out there first and foremost that a lot of people are not very happy with the idea of roberto deserbe coming to the club um let me read you so this stems from it stems from uh a quote when he was asked about mason greenwood um we won't go too heavily into the mason greenwood stuff everybody knows what happened it's all out there um deserbe's comments were saddens me what happened to him because i know a very different person from the one that's been portrayed in england he's a good guy he's paid a heavy price for what happened a very heavy price you know i have sort of said i can understand why people are not particularly comfortable with this i can understand why people have gone through their own forms of trauma particularly are not very happy with this i don't think it needs to be turned into like a a massive culture war, does it?

15:53Jack:I don't think anybody is saying people aren't allowed to... I mean, maybe... Look, I can't speak on behalf of everybody, but I don't think this is one of those issues where people are, you know, going to be turning on anybody that still chooses to watch and enjoy Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. If Roberto De Serbi, as is expected, becomes our next manager, right? And you want to cheer Spurs on and hope that we don't get relegated. I don't think anybody is... saying you're not allowed to do that. I think people are just exercising their right to say, I don't like the things he stood up for in the past, much in the same way that, what, 99 % of us haven't liked Mikel Arteta doing the same with Thomas Partey this season.

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17:34Jack:Pros. Just because something on the job runs out doesn't mean you have to. Order it on the Lowe's app. My Lowe's Pro Rewards members get free same-day delivery on eligible orders over$25. Get the fasteners, hardware, or tools you need to keep the job moving. Order by 2 p.m. and get eligible in-stock items delivered right to your job site by 8 p.m. Members get more at Lowe's. Loyalty programs subject to terms and conditions. Subject to availability. Restrictions and terms at lowes.com slash shipping terms. Subject to change. Yeah, I think the most depressing thing about the response to this since Deliveri was linked is obviously, and rightly so, groups like Proud Lily White's power of the statement, voicing their concerns and the backlash that that got and that other fan groups got for doing similar was just, I just thought it was pathetic, like bringing woke into this sort of thing, none of those people even know what that word means just let people if they're concerned about it, let them voice their concerns let them, you know, I think this was as you said, this was obviously directed at the club this wasn't directed at fans saying And, you know, fans who might not necessarily have an opinion on it, might not be massively informed about it and still want to go and support their team.

18:48None of those messages, none of those statements were about that. None of them were attacking Tottenham fans. They were obviously just expressing their concerns at the club over this decision. And yeah, as you said, the culture was already seemingly started there, which is not on those groups. None of that is on those groups. And none of that is the fault of people expressing concern about this. It's all on the response coming from the other side, basically having a go at those groups and those people for calling this out. Why wouldn't they? Why wouldn't they? Why wouldn't you? You know, if you love this club and you, you know, it's a massive part of your life and, you know, you find this appointment because of the reasons that you laid out concerning or upsetting, you've got every right to voice that.

19:38and I just found the response to yeah I found the response to those statements baffling I almost you know it was almost like people felt they were being attacked for you know even you know I don't even think those statements and those groups and the people who raised their concerns rightly were you know in any way sort of attacking fans who you know might quite like Roberto Deserbi and think he's a good manager good tactician and want him on board none of it was that but I just found the response to that baffling, yeah.

20:07Jack:It's just kind of how it all goes on the internet now, isn't it? You know, it's just... Yeah. Like you said, it's just not a binary thing, mate. Like, it's not... It's not boycott the club or, you know, call anyone who has got any sort of concerns about this woke and, you know, just, yeah, I just couldn't really get my head around. I was really, really surprised by how sort of angry, vitriolic and yeah the responses were to those statements coming out yeah I also want to flag at this point purely because the point was made to me on Twitter because I was talking about this in those times and I was saying essentially that and I was using it in brackets saying that I don't think it's woke to you know have issues with the sort of baggage and stuff involved here and obviously I got called out on that being like you know don't let the don't let the media poison your mind as to what woke actually means woke is a good thing blah blah blah it's like i get that at its very core it is it started as a positive thing the reason why i use that word and the reason why i use that language to sort of talk about this issue is because it has look things change right it has become a cat call it's become something that people leverage like they they level at people because if they feel that people are being you know displaying some sort of performative outrage or if they're being insincere in their say actions regarding you know something um that's why i use that term that's why i use the term work i use it in the in the sense that it has been say you know shifted to now like you know you're never going to please everyone like that's the thing ultimately you're never going to please everyone but i think ultimately you know people are going to have their opinions on this people are going to have their say but the people that ultimately have the say are the people that run the football club it's you know probably in this instance it's vinay venkatesian i think look the little matter of like sweeping that issue aside if we if we are to just stick to the football if you like i do have my concerns about Roberto De Zerbi I I definitely get and you see some of the clips doing the rounds today amongst a few excited Bears fans about De Zerbi ball and everything like that I can totally take on board that if things go our way if if you know he manages to inspire the group of players and everything we might be able to play football that is more to our liking than Thomas Frank was able to um it is pretty modern progressive attractive football when when it gets going there are two there are two issues for me here is that as we sort of said at the top he's got seven games right these seven games are going to be very different to how he might approach a brand new season right i think i think we can all say that that's that's going to be a point and that's going to be something that we're going to need to focus on we're talking about the guy getting a five-year contract coming into this situation which look we all know how this stuff works as well he will be saying you getting relegated will cost you 250 million pounds you can hire me for what probably 25 30 million pounds it's probably going to cost the club really giving him a five-year contract i think i've seen it floating around he's going to be the highest if not one of the very highest paid managers in the premier league um if he takes this on so you can imagine there will be lots of clauses and stuff that are being worked on right now blah blah blah blah blah in the event that spurs get relegated or whatever but you know this is these are these are huge sums of money we're talking about um throwing around which probably you know in in in some ways it feels quite worrying but you know you do have to come back to the point that but relegation is going to cost Tottenham a lot anyway.

24:14Jack:So it's, you know, it kind of is what it is. It's one or the other. I just think the main, really the main crux of it in a footballing sense for me is that Spurs have been chaotic. We've been a real kind of toxic place for quite some time now. It feels like a very hopeless place. It feels like a place where there's not a lot of love. there's a great disconnect between all all parts of the club um it feels like we need a real course correction i just worry about a guy who i think it's something like he's never let's let's see i think what's his name doogie what's his name doogie critchley or whatever he's called yeah doogie doogie critchley tweeted this earlier let me just give you the stats so find it sorry two seconds right So, De Zerbi has only lasted more than 91 games at a club once.

25:11Jack:Half of his roles have lasted 30 games or less. He didn't hit the two-year mark at Brighton or Marseille, and Spurs are offering him a five-year, blah, blah, blah, blah. He then goes on to talk about the five-year contract. The point is that Roberto De Zerbi is chaotic. He can be quite toxic. It just feels like a match being added to our, you know, can of petrol, doesn't it in some ways yeah fuck it just go all in why not yeah i mean yeah you're right i i just can't really think past these seven games if he leaves in 18 months but we stay up this season i find it hard to really care about that at the minute it's not my money they can do what they want with it the frustrating thing is where this club decides that they do have the money to do these things and when they don't.

26:01I just can't look past these seven games. And it's quite rare nowadays, obviously, that managers last more than two years anyway. I mean, there's a lot of talk about Arnaz leaving Liverpool this summer and he won the league title last season. It is very rare. I mean, you've only got I'd say Arteta and Pep who have lasted longer than that in the Premier League at the minute. If he leaves us in a better position than we're in right now in if it's 18 months then fair enough whatever give him his payoff and he'll go he might even walk away before that but I just find it really hard to look past these seven games I just can't one I can't imagine him staying if we go down anyway so he definitely won't

26:45Jack:he's definitely not staying might not even be a conversation but if if if we do stay up then you know obviously we've read this many many many many times over the last however many years that we've promised that we're going to spend big in the transfer window and we've given De Zerbe assurances to get him to agree to come that we will be doing that in the summer. If that does happen and De Zerbe gets a full pre-season with this squad, it could be quite an exciting season next season. His first season at Brighton, I don't even think he got a pre-season in his first season at Brighton, but obviously they finished sixth.

27:22There were a couple of points behind Liverpool in fifth. I think they were the third highest scorers in the Premier League that season. So, like I say, I just find it really hard to look past these seven games. But if he does do well and he does stay on and so many big ifs. If Tottenham Hotspur spend money on football players is the biggest one, then I do think it could be quite an exciting season next season. And I do think it would probably be the most exciting season in terms of football that we've seen since, obviously, Angie's first season. And it will be very, very different to what we've seen this season.

27:54And it could be quite refreshing in that way. But yeah, like I say, it's getting through these seven games first because that might not all matter.

28:03Jack:So, I mean, what do you want to see from him in these seven games then, mate? Points! One of the big things that's been picked up about Tudor's time was his lack of use or, shall we say, misuse of Xavi Siemens, who I think people have varying degrees of sympathy or affection for. But I think we can all probably say that he is our one main creative outlet right now, isn't he? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that was a thing with Tudor that was absolutely baffling was dropping him for Forrest after that performance against Atletico. Obviously, two goals, man of the match. and then not to play him against Forrest, who we knew exactly what they were going to do.

28:49And they did it well. They did sit back. They did sit back to absorb pressure. Obviously, we couldn't get through. But we did that without Xavi Simmons. And then, you know, he came on and people said, oh, he didn't look great when he came on. But I don't think he does quite a lot of the time. I think someone like that needs to start games. And I don't see how we can leave a player like that on the bench when we don't have Kulisevsky or Maddison available. Like you say, he's literally our only creative outlet. So if he does go back to his Brighton formation and he does play a 4-2-3-1, I'd love to see Xavi Simmonds start.

29:19I'd love to see, hard to say, maybe Gray and Saar behind him. And then I just want to see a back forward. I want to see a left footer at left back, which obviously depends a lot on Adoghi's fitness. I just, yeah, I'd like to see our, you know, the usual back four, Poirot Romero, Van Der Ven Adoghi, and then, yeah, Xavi in front of those midfielders. and then obviously we haven't got a wealth of wingers at all, have we? But it would have to be Tell on the left and then probably Mouane on the right and Selankira Charlton up top. And I don't think it needs to be much more complicated than that, really.

29:53Obviously, Bergvau could go into one of those midfield positions as well. And if Kudus is back, then obviously that spot on the right is his for sure. We don't have a wealth of options there at all. But I'd just like to see players in their positions and a bit of consistency in terms of personnel and yeah, set up really.

30:15Jack:Here's some stats for you about Roberto Dezerbi. 69 matches at Marseille, win percentage of 57%. 89 matches at Brighton and Hove Albion with a win percentage of 43%. Shakhtar Donetsk, 30 matches, a 67 % win percentage. I believe his time there also got cut short by the war going on in Ukraine. When we talk about the lack of matches he served during his 10 years, to Gukričli's point earlier, you do have to factor that in really. And then he was also at Susulo. His time at Susulo was his longest served at a club. That was 120 games and he got a 36 % win percentage there, which, you know, Sassoula were quite crap, aren't they?

31:09Jack:So again, it's quite hard to hold that against him. Led Marseille to their second place finish last year, back in the Champions League, 65 points. Marseille were ranked top three for possession and open play sequences of 10 plus passes throughout his tenure. I'm sure you've seen a lot of the videos going around. Put that on a fucking flag. Put that on a flag. Exactly, exactly. I'm sure you've seen all the videos doing around of his Brighton team. There's one particularly good one from Old Trafford when everybody's knocking the ball about and then they end up scoring. I guess that is what people are going to want to see at Tottenham.

31:48But again, I have to just raise the question, Con.

31:52Jack:And again, it's one eye on the people appointing De Zerbe. Do Tottenham Hotspur have the players to accommodate this? And regardless of whether or not they spend money in summer, you might say it's going to require a literal wholesale overhauling of the squad in order to play the sort of football that heavy possession technical type of football that Roberto Di Zerbi wants to play right and it's just what worries me a bit. The biggest one for that is obviously the midfield isn't it and yeah a number six I mean obviously I don't think we'll now obviously now Frank's long gone I don't think we'll be keeping and Jao Pelinha, I highly doubt anyway, especially if the Derby's manager.