Spurs’ Attacking Issues - Players or System? | Odobert Debate & Peak Bale vs Kane vs Modric | Windy from The Extra Inch (Q&A)

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1:57hello everybody welcome back to rule the ruch podcast the international break might be on but the podcasts don't stop do they windy miller how are you doing mate good yeah i'm all right i've a bit groggy had a slightly sleepless night with a teething baby so i'm not feeling 100 % but um yeah I'm I'm good to go I think it's interesting isn't it the podcast don't stop the international break always gives you a little dilemma as to what to tackle on the podcast and people have different expectations about what they want from you some people see it as an opportunity to go deep on a particular issue and some people want a break from your pod I think yeah I I sort of I want to try and treat them a little bit like you know towards the last few weeks of term when you were back in school yeah the teachers would like they'd commit to about 10 minutes of teaching and then just put a tape on yeah absolutely yeah I mean let's let's you know I think that's that's the vibe isn't it that's the vibe um well let's you know let's let's dive in with the uh with the the housekeeping bit first and foremost then mate how are you uh how are you feeling about the season for anybody you know I mean I'm pretty sure everybody listens to this probably listens to the extra inch but still how are you how are you feeling about frank um i see nathan's picking up a few pelters at the moment for should we say a less than an effusive take on thomas frank's tenure so far is he that's i i'm kind of a bit detached from social media at the moment so i've not kind of picked up the pelters um mostly because i just occupy our discord bubble and i would say there's a good number of people that are very team nathan on that one personally I am really pleased with the start we've made I really like Thomas Frank as a person I think he seems super super sound I think he's very

3:55realistic I think he is honest in his assessment of where we are I think he's not an idiot he doesn't think that we're you know a fully functioning team at this point I would say it's very reasonable to have some concerns about how we move the ball through the thirds of the pitch because it doesn't always look great see it's clunky at best but there's loads to be really happy about I think the defensive structure just to the eye test looks so much more palatable to your average fan. Just, you know, in basic terms, we have more men behind the ball when we're in possession of the football. And that allows you to be able to defend more cohesively as a team and gives you a platform on which to build.

4:50Now that does come with its downsides, but for the moment, I think that's the right decision. Set pieces are amazing. I love the focus on set pieces. I think we've seen some ingenuity. I think we've seen some quite pragmatic choices, but it's working well so far. And I think that's an area where we'll continue to improve as well. So, yeah, I think there's some really good stuff going on. With the set pieces, I kind of feel like it's almost one of those things that we just wanted to cling on to something to hate Arsenal for additionally. and because they got really good at set pieces we sort of as a fan base got this set pieces of shit aren't they i don't like those and now we're doing quite well at them we're like uh well i don't know how to feel about this really i just feel like we were just leaving points on the table like it's it's really so and said this whole thing which was set pieces are just a part of the the way we play more generally and we don't need to focus on um training in a particular way for set pieces because you know we approach the game in this particular attacking um sort of breaks off mode of of playing football set pieces are a part of that whereas frank is very much no this is a separate part of football we will have for every time the ball goes out of play we will have a particular way that we want to bring the ball back into play and i think that approach is way more sensible in terms of understanding that there's a chance to firstly reset as a team but also to utilise various strengths across the pitch that aren't just you know we have really good ways of progressing the ball actually no we've got someone who can throw the ball a really long way we've got someone who's really good in the air at the near post so let's make those work for us not against us it's I appreciate that long throws are a very sort of early noughties Bolton, but they do the job sometimes.

6:57I love them. Genuinely, I love it. I love watching it happen. I always have done when Rory Dallap used to do it. Yeah, exactly. You know, proper football man football, you know. Touching on something you were talking about as well, about the lack of sort of fluidity in the final third. Yeah, yeah. I've been toying up the idea here that it's potentially more of a, say like a skills issue a personnel issue versus a systemic one how do you kind of feel about that because I say that mainly because I look at Mohamed Kudus it's not like Frank's putting a handbrake on him um when Xavi was playing centrally against like definitively playing centrally should we say against Leeds the other day he suddenly looked influential it opened up a lot of our play and yeah it was a bit of a stuttering start there were a couple of moments you know a few through balls that could have been played through to tell and the Rabonna, Rabonna gate, all that type of stuff.

7:50But still, I quite like a young player. He is very young still. And I think people forget that who is still adapting to the Premier League, who feels emboldened enough to take risks on that kind of number 10 position. But still, I mean, what do you make of the sort of the sense that when we say adds more quality into that final third, say, you know, Had we a Harry Kane or somebody up front, our system might look a bit more fluid. Harry Kane's a bad example. I mean, he's quite clearly probably the best player in the world at the moment. Just on that, have you seen his 99 percentile in pretty much everything that's been shared this season?

8:30He is ridiculous. And obviously he's playing in a farmer's league. Sausage farmers. I'm with you on the systemic versus personnel stuff I'm having the same kind of internal monologue around that my gut feel at the moment is so when I think back to Thomas Frank's Brentford and I think about the strides they took forward they all happened when Mikkel Damsgaard came into the team I don't think they changed an awful lot in the way they approached football they just suddenly had a player who linked things together knitted play together got on the ball had touches passed and moved was creative with his passing and vision and so my suspicion is it is a personnel thing and we just need to have better players in order to um be a more fluid cohesive team I want to say better I mean better at you know turn the dial on certain technical aspects rather than other aspects so you're not going to necessarily get a 100 better player but you'll get a player that's more attuned to playing forward passes line breaking passes perhaps and then you you suffer for that and perhaps a lack of defensive awareness and you you know that's something they'll have to um grapple with but um i do think systemically once the you know he was at brentford for years and years and years they knew exactly what was expected of them in multiple systems formations against multiple types of opposition.

10:04We're not there yet. So this is really early days still. So there is definitely some system enhancement that can happen and I think will happen. And we should give him a good chunk of the season before we start to judge him on the system. But I also think, you know, get a deep-blown playmaker or at least a playmaker in at number eight and suddenly you see a transformed Spurs team. get Madison back in the squad and that really helps. You know, Kulosevsky's been a big loss. I think we've had to play Richarlison way more than we'd have wanted to so far. So having the option of Solanke will really help as well.

10:44Which I think is, as a fan, it's easier to kind of,

10:50it's easier to accept what you're seeing if it isn't exactly what you want. if you know that there are a couple of jigsaw pieces missing that you can just kind of slide into place and everything looks good again. I'm really interested to see how he lines up once Maddison, Kulusevsky, Solanke, everyone's back basically, how he finds that balance. And I know it's a squad game. I know this whole thing, the idea of a starting XI is redundant, but it's kind of not though as well. You know, like you're still going to have your best XI. I think that's always going to be a thing. His rotation has been amazing, by the way.

11:30I didn't mention that at the start. I'm really impressed with the way he's rotated the squad. I think my main criticism, I would say, is how many times does he need to see that the Benton Copellini double pivot just doesn't work? Like, come on, mate. And, you know, again, cards on the table. Like, I'm not like a Thomas Frank stan, but I like what much like what you said I like where we're going I like the fact we're not losing lots of games I think there's there's an impressive amount of control to a lot of what we do um and I and I I generally quite like Frank's demeanor I think he uh you know it's that really like centrist dad take but yeah he's like the adults are here now you know that type of like you know the sensible man is here and uh I don't mind I don't mind that for a bit and I get why it rub some people up the wrong way but full otto english wasn't it isn't it nice the quiet or something like that but i i don't mind that you know it's uh it's okay um wilson odabaugh he's like he's somebody that you know people are very very split on i'm i'm of the opinion that he seems like a pretty promising but raw young player whereas some people are quick to say he's useless get rid how do you feel I'm with you it's funny I think he's one of many pretty useful raw young players we've got and I would include Bergvau in the same category but people aren't spit on Bergvau but they are on on Odeber I don't know what that's about really maybe it's about the fact that Odebeir hasn't scored many goals.

13:18Maybe if he pops up with a couple of goals in the next few weeks, people will just suddenly change their tune because goals matter.

13:28The thing is, he came with a bit of experience at Burnley. So there's a sort of expectation that he will be a bit more fully formed. But he's 20. He's 20. He's the same age as Matisse tell who everyone is happy to accept is is raw and unfinished um yeah I think he's he's got loads of potential um really liked what I saw between him and Xavi Simons against Leeds I thought the kind of close uh interplay one and two touch pass and move football that they displayed the rotation of positions the understanding that one person needs to hold the width and and the other can sit in the pocket inside, I thought was really nice.

14:11And it didn't surprise me when Nathan told me on the pod this week that they were at PSG together. And yeah, they played together in the same academy team because you can tell there's an understanding between them. That is really interesting. I didn't know that at all. Yeah, I wasn't aware. Because, so Simons came through at La Masia and Odebert at PSG. I just assumed that their kind of formative years in high level sort of ticker tacker academy football approaches would have led to them having a similar understanding of the way football should air quotes be played. And that would make sense alone.

14:54But the fact that they've actually played together in their in their younger days, yeah, it makes total sense when you see their interactions on the pitch. But yeah, I really like Odeber. I think he is, the way I've described him on the pod, is a small spaces player. He's not someone who's going to carry the ball 40, 50 yards, as we've seen someone like Gulaszewski do, albeit at a snail's pace. um odberi is much more he's kind of explosive in small spaces and tricky in small spaces but then needs someone to bounce off to kind of play him through or play him into space or he's the one that sometimes plays the ball into space um and sometimes those players can go a little bit underappreciated i think i like it they uh they were scolding in ticker tacker proper football and now they're getting in the mix waiting for a throw from Big Kevin Dancer.

15:47Drive the bull, Wilder Bear. Throw it in. A bit wallop. De Messe and Trace on Discord says, well, he first of all says, have a tête -à-tête about Saar. And he said, well, maybe I can put this more into a question. Who would you rather have in the squad right now, Saar or Tyrese Hall? Do you still hate Sarr? No. I think the thing is with Sarr, I've never hated Sarr. You hated him. You had a picture of his face on the dartboard, all that type of stuff. I love him as a person, by the way. I think he's an adorable human being and does so much for Senegal more generally, but I think the city where he's brought up, township where he's brought up, he is building a medical center.

16:46Just absolutely incredible. What guy? I think I have underappreciated Saar's skill set because I have an inherent bias towards players that are kind of highly technical in their passing ability. that is a bias that is internalized to me and I completely accept and I will always prefer someone who wants to get on the ball have touches have creative vision creative passing sorry is not that player he's a transition player he's really really really strong off the ball um how many times have we seen him chase back and stretch out one of his legs in the perfect time to get a nick on the ball and take it away from an opponent just as they're about to make a through ball or have a shot whatever he's so good at reading the game in a defensive off ball manner I think his on-ball abilities are more limited uh obviously he he's pops up with some fantastic goals is a really good finisher especially first time uh but he isn't someone who just wants the ball at his feet all the time um dictating play and I do think we've lacked a midfielder who can do that and so he's kind of coming to the fiery line for me just by dint of not being that player.

18:10I think he is much more suited to Frank Ball. When he played the first couple of games as kind of a pressing 10, it looked like Frank was going to get the best out of him. And then he had a couple of poorer games and then he's been out of the team and that's partly, I think, due to injury. But maybe it's also because he wanted to squeeze some more creativity into the team as he was using Bergvau in that position and now Simon's and hopefully Simon's will continue to play there so I don't know what that means for Saar um on the point now about Saar or Tyrese Hall uh Tyrese Hall is an incredible prospect absolutely brilliant player and should have been on loan last year I know a few things about the way Ange treated Tyrese Hall and I think he's absolutely fucked it and I think Tyrese Hall is now probably a year behind in his development.

19:00And hopefully he'll kind of get his confidence back and become the player that he should become. He's flying at Notts County at the moment, scored a few goals recently, playing as a number 10, which I'm quite surprised about. I thought he was going to be a 6th. They seem to love him as well. You see the odd bit that comes through on social media, right? Because his quality, he just oozes class on the ball. And I've just been saying I have a bias towards players that want touches, want to feel the ball at their feet, want to pass the ball, want to carry the ball. That's Tyrese Hall. He is my kind of footballer.

19:33The few times we've seen him, like, for Spurs, I think, did he play in the FA Cup game? Did he come on against Tamworth? I can't remember. I know he played the post-season friendly against Newcastle and did really well in that game and everyone was kind of buzzing about him on the social. And there were, like, full match highlights of Tyrese Hall, people saying star boy, etc., etc. And then he played a couple of the preseason games. He had a really poor showing. I think it was against Rangers. And there was an incident with Ange, which I can't talk about, but there was an incident with Ange. And since then, he was thrown to the wolves, essentially.

20:07Just some of his teammates stayed with the first team. He got shoved back into the development squad. It's clearly, anyone who's watched Spurs under 21s will see how that has impacted his confidence levels. And it's taken a long time to rebuild those. and I do think he is he should have been with the first team squad all of last season and or on loan kind of probably League One team he's now gone to League Two I think there's a conversation about whether we move him to a League One club in January or whether we do what we did with George Abbott last year and leave him in Notts County for the whole season that's a really tough decision but we'd love to see him in the squad next year I think he's class I don't know if you've seen but talking about like Ange ITK stuff what seems to be going around forest twitter at the moment is some sort of uh ITK they all call Ange what's it fingers and it's something it's something to do and I can't I've honestly I've been going down rabbit holes trying to find what the actual root of this is but it seems to be there's been some sort of incident already with a player and it revolves and having like what's it dust on his fingers and i don't know what it is and i'm desperate to find out but oh my goodness yeah i do find it quite funny how can we maybe it's maybe we need to put a call out on the podcasts to anyone who's got a friend that supports forest and might know the the background to do some investigative journalism.

21:43Like football fans are so good at investigative journalism. Like the way they track planes when players are about to sign. The way they take sneaky photos and share them on Reddit and suddenly it explodes. Like we need to know what WhatsApp is about. That sounds incredible. And if it is something like bad or offensive, I apologise in advance. Yeah.

22:06um chumbucket7988 on discord says in the last decade what's been your favorite month of supporting spurs and what about the least favorite the entire summer of soccer is on prize picks all 48 countries in every matchup and if you rep your side before the round of 16 on prize picks you can win a trip to the finals in new york it's the biggest tournament ever which means there's even more opportunities to cash in while you root for your favorite national sides and global soccer stars. Download the app today and use code CUP26 to get$50 instantly in lineups when you play your first$5. Download the app today and use code CUP26 to get$50 instantly in lineups when you play your first$5.

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24:19I can say quite, I'd say honestly, like it's tough, but if I'm being brutally honest, that period of time, it probably wasn't a month, but the period of time between the end of Ajax to the Champions League final, I've never felt anything like that as a Spurs fan. I was walking on clouds. Yeah. Yeah, I think if I'd gone to all the Europa League final stuff, which I do regret not going to in some ways. It was a difficult period with my daughter at the time and it didn't feel like the right time for me to go for two or three days and just be gone. I reckon that would probably have been my favourite if I'd been there.

25:04But yeah, I think I'm in agreement with you. that the post Ajax euphoria because we loved dad so much as well and we just want so we just wanted that for him like he'd had a bad season we'd had a bad season yet he had got us the Champions League final felt incredible it really did I think you're right like there were other points the year before was great as well Manchester City Ajax that would have been in a in the same month right wouldn't it right you know yeah it's it was it was a that was a that was a wild time to be alive as a Spurs fan I've got to say yeah yeah it was something else yeah I didn't yeah because there was some there were there were a whole bunch of periods under Poch where there were stretches of it just feeling incredible you just felt so proud to be a Spurs fan whenever you had conversations with other non-Spurs fans, they will be complimenting on the type of football Spurs were playing and almost in admiration of, jealous basically, that we've got Poch and we're the ones playing this level of football and it felt so good.

26:15So I think that, yeah, in terms of the least favourite,

26:23God, several moments in the Mourinho. Mourinho, yeah. Several moments under Mourinho felt really bleak. But then Conte's second season felt awful. Horrible. I mean, I think personally for me, like some of when Ange went bad, like that Everton game, the Leicester home game under Ange and some of the subsequent discussion around those performances just felt so rudderless and hopeless because this guy was meant to be the antidote to Mourinho and Conte and we looked awful we looked absolutely awful I think and he he he had like he was rattled as hell as well yeah like with Mourinho and Conte they were never they were they were rattled in the sense that they were uppity about being questioned how dare you question me but Ange was like fully rabbit in the headlights rattled i think that the saving grace i mean obviously the europa league and that stuff but outside of that the saving grace to me with ang is that like even when even when it went to the bottom and i i completely like fell out with him towards the end like i couldn't stand his attitude for the most part but what i would say is there was still a sense with him that he was despite everything despite the fact he was falling out of fans falling out of players he was still kind of fighting for spurs like yeah absolutely there were the odd moments when you'd see it in like press conferences and stuff like that when he just laughed and he was like you lot love doing this to tottenham don't you you know when when it was kind of the press doing the whole spurs are going to bottle it spursy this and that it actually wound him up as well yeah true yeah it was nice to see he could see it from our perspective as in like you don't give this club a break and And it is on you lot.

28:20You do this. Whereas Conte, his whole thing was, I'm so above this club. I'm so, why am I even here? He used us as a shield for himself. It was just like it was just a, you know, it was just like himself warming up, wouldn't it? Like, you know, for whatever it is in Napoli, where he's obviously doing a good job. He's just a nasty bit of work, Conte, isn't he? He's not a very nice bloke. Not a fan at all. Don't take me back there. um cm on discord says as uh this is probably relevant to what we've just been talking about as angiball crawled towards its grave last year um how badly did windy want to headbutt an oncoming train rather than do another reaction pod only to be criticized for being too negative how did how did you find the uh because i i've i've sort of made the comparison windy and you've been in pretty sure you've been in the crosshairs of both but I I have found a a cult-like thing around Ange that I would say I found pretty unpleasant on a personal level last year when I when I aired and I would say like I wasn't sat here I'd never once said anything about like he's an Aussie what does he know about football he's a fat this or that none of that I was never abusive towards Ange I always had a certain level of respect for him I just criticized what I was seeing in front of me you wouldn't think that from some of the pushback I've got but I mean you got you got you got really bad stuff from the Mourinho era right oh god yeah yeah yeah the Mourinho era was like the Mourinho cult fans and I think also like literally an army of bots um genuinely I think probably his agency either had sock puppet accounts or bots.

30:04That was insane. The cultists from Mourinho were mad. But yeah, some people like really drank the Kool-Aid with Ange and sort of saw him as some kind of purist who was there to save football. And if you didn't appreciate that, you were somehow responsible for the demise of football as a sport. And the thing is I was so supportive of Ange so fucking all in on him because I really wanted it to work and there came a point where I was just like I am lying to myself now and I can't continue doing that. I can't keep watching what I'm watching and pretending that this is good or has the foundations of being good and so it probably was quite a quick like pull myself out of this like this is madness we can't just keep putting up with this um and so I imagined for listeners it probably felt quite almost like I did a handbrake turn and suddenly changed my tune so I was doing these reaction pods where you know we had the same performance over and over again and it was bleak and there was very little going right and it was the same defensive incapability being exposed over and over and over again.

31:21And it wouldn't always end in goals, but it would end in dangerous shots or teams pretty much playing one pass down the middle of the pitch and being in on goal. That's not an exaggeration either. It was farcical, wasn't it, at times? Honestly, it really was. And so I really didn't enjoy doing the reaction pods, and that probably showed through the way I was approaching them. and so I understand why people got their backs up if they were very pro-ange a lot of people were very supportive and just said you know well done for getting some content out about that mess kind of thing uh there were a couple of people who really did not enjoy them but also hate listened to every single one and and told me that they didn't enjoy it um I mean there's a couple of people like one guy was just dming me all the time saying that I was just uh completely biased against Ange.

32:11I was, I think he was sort of speculating that I was down on Ange because he was an Aussie, like you just said, which wasn't the case at all. Like, I didn't have any of that snobbery about him. I still don't. I don't think he's failing at Forest now because he's an Aussie. I think he's failing because ultimately his system has been found out by tactically astute managers that know how to play against him. Like, yes, you create an overload in the middle of the pitch. Great, we're going to create overloads elsewhere and you're going to have to deal with that one of the things i always used to like getting was uh sorry sorry he's an aussie and he's not an english manager i'll be like mate i don't know how to break it to you like i'm not here pine him for eddie howe do you know what i mean like yeah um sam halladice i don't know i wouldn't wouldn't mind a little uh runner dice ball here and there you know every now and again um yeah it's a funny one but uh yeah i i take a lot of pleasure it's really difficult because i'm taking a lot of pleasure from forest's downfall because of maranakis and because of the sort of the the way their fan base tried to sort of engineer a rivalry between the two of us last year you know you're having like 14 year old kind of yeah blue tick twitter accounts being like you know this is for the FA Cup in 90s.

33:32It's like, you weren't even, you know, come on. I don't remember it. I'm twice your age and I don't remember that. What are you going on about? Like, shut up. But I don't, I genuinely, I don't, I find it, I would say like, you know, my gut reaction to sort of seeing like Ange being in peril and stuff right now already. I'm just kind of like, it's just unpleasant. I don't, I don't like, this is a guy that did, for all that it's worth, he did bring us a Europa League. Absolutely. And I do have overwhelming, like, on the balance of it, I have fond memories of him. So, you know, it's just... Yeah, I'm very grateful.

34:08Exactly. Very, very grateful, even if he's not 100 % my cup of tea. Extremely grateful for what he ultimately did for the club, like the monkeys off the back. It's a strange job to take, though, the Forest one. That Forest team and Flux in that way and the personnel and... That's him, though. I think he is quite ego-driven and he would love to be able to ram it down people's throats and say, look, I can do what you said I can't. Maybe that's the Aussie part of him. Maybe. Do you know what I mean? Maybe, yeah. And I've got a lot of Australian friends, all right?

34:44Joe Dash on Discord said, is Windy as reliant on any single skill as Xavi is reliant on his right foot? hmm I probably am probably am actually I like sometimes sometimes with the podcast I think I listen to to Nathan analyzing football and I think I have no place I have no place being here talking to you about football at this level because you study it you work on it every single day and I listen to Bardi he goes to every single match uh home match that is he's not an away goer um and he turns up for the terrible kickoff times and he's so committed and I don't do that and I haven't done for a good number of years now and I feel a bit of an imposter but the reason I'm there and and the skill that I rely on is the fact that I I'm a really good organizer I know I always have been I'm like I just I run you sell yourself really short there mate but still that's when I when I say I run the show like obviously I host the show and I think hosting is a skill in its own right but like I run the show behind the scenes as well I do all the legwork with our podcast I I help build community I reply to emails I organize advertising I I link everyone together I pay all our invoices.

36:19I liaise with the accountants. I do all the stuff behind the scenes to make the podcast the success it's been. But I am really reliant on the fact that I'm very good at doing admin. I would also say in the dynamic of the extra inch though, Wendy, you're a delightful segue between the proper football man of Bardi, and he won't mind me saying that, and the nerd of Nathan. You know, it's just, I think your awareness of having almost a toe in either camp is, you know, is good. You have a good level of self-depreciation. This is starting to feel like a counselling session, isn't it? In Thomas Frank terms, I've got high levels of emotional intelligence, and I think that helps.

37:02I'm good at eating crisps. That's what I would say. That's a good skill. It's got me far. Yeah. What's it, Fingers? It's about me. That's why I was interested. Nick Abaker on Discord says, and this question, as I've told him, is very unfair. Which player, if we could add them right now, at their Tottenham peak, would improve the current team the most? Kane, Bale or Modric? I mean, that is not particularly fair. I think you could make a case for any of them.