Spurs Fans Boo Thomas Frank | Reaction with Jack Pitt-Brooke, Stick or Twist & Spurs' Managerial Aspirations (Q&A)

31:42Jack Pitt-Brooke:should spend money in january if they can find the right players um again like they have to figure out what sort of players they want and what i don't mean like positions i mean you know young old expensive cheap etc um uk based or foreign um i don't think but then i don't think they would like necessarily be giving thomas frank the money anyway like who regardless of who the manager is the second half of this season or next season or whatever the squad is clearly not good enough like he's nowhere near good enough um so yeah i would kind of i would almost but then equally you don't want to be in a situation where you're you know you don't want to give the manager too much say or like help him to sign some players who you might not necessarily want the following season so for example i guess pelini would be a good one like would you i mean pelini's kind of

32:31Jack:falling out of the team anyway now to be honest um yeah last night addy unfortunately but there we

32:37Jack Pitt-Brooke:go but yeah i think i would i basically like continue to improve the squad almost like blind of who the manager is i think you just have to continue to try and improve the squad um based on what you based on what the club thinks the strategy should be and then ideally like the

32:51Jack:manager will fit in around that so it is a uh it is a q a podcast jack um as i do on thursdays i I know it's a Friday, but this should be the Thursday, whatever. We had a few questions in, which I want to start with this one that I think is kind of relevant to what we've already been talking about. So I think it would be a good segue into this section. From Shrewsbury Spur on Blue Sky, who said, as one of the journalists who attends manager press conferences, is it worth bringing up the fact, is it worth sort of asking him if he's aware of how expensive ticket prices are at the club. Shrewsbury says, I think that's a big reason why appealing for patience isn't going to help because the prices aren't going to be dropping.

33:42Jack:If you're going to be paying more than anybody else, you surely are going to expect a good standard of football and entertainment. Not necessarily a criticism of the manager. The issues go above him, but he's the one who has to deal with the consequences.

33:57Jack Pitt-Brooke:Yeah, it's a good question. I think it's, it's just one of those where I think, you know, like nine times out of 10, the manager would always say, well, you know, it's not my, it's not my decision. It's not my department, which is completely true. At the same time, traditionally, managers have got, managers have had to answer questions about non-football topics by virtue of being the only club representative who speaks to media. And traditionally at Tottenham, that was always the case. That's actually been, you know, I think there has been a bit of a change in Tottenham in the last, well, this year, basically, given everything that's happened, or last year, rather, given everything that's happened.

34:40Jack Pitt-Brooke:So like Vinay Van Kotechen, for example, will often do bits for the Spurs website, for example. So it's not just the manager who is speaking who is speaking to the media all the time which i think is like is not really an ideal situation uh but yeah it's like a totally fair fair question i think for for thomas frank or for whoever the manager is of any club even though they would probably just not answer it i think

35:13Jack:um i'm just looking at this one yeah so david show says on the most recent libera podcast the prevailing view seemed to be that the only type of coach that Spurs could attract was somebody like a Glasner or a Silva, i.e. another Frank. Does Jack believe that an accomplished manager like Alonso or Nagelsmann would be out of reach to replace Frank?

35:37Jack Pitt-Brooke:I think it would probably be a difficult time. I think in general, Spurs should be able to aim high with managers on the basis that, you know, London is a big factor. The stadium training ground, I think, are big factors. The chance, and also, like, managers have all got big egos. And so the chance to, like, I mean, it wouldn't be, like, the guy who ended the trophy drought. If you could, like, get Spurs competing for the title, for example, that would obviously be, you know, you could do something very, very significant in the way that, say, Alonso did when he won the Bundesliga by Leverkusen.

36:13Jack Pitt-Brooke:that all said I think the next year or two is a really bad time to be in that market because I think so many big managerial jobs are going to change I mean look I mean Chelsea are currently as we record in the process of going for a new manager there's tons of talk this is going to be Guardiola's last season at City um will on a slot be able to get beyond this season at Liverpool I don't know will you know will Michael I'd have to be at Arsenal forever you win or lose the title this year I don't know I kind of suspect there's probably a shelf life on that as well um will ruben amarin be able to survive forever at manchester united i don't know i mean like i feel like the walls are closing on him a little bit so there's there's a possibility that a lot of these big jobs will all be up at a similar time and then on top of that you've got like you know will jabi lonzo survive at real madrid will hansi flick survive at barcelona like it could be a really really choppy time for managerial recruitment and that means that like it would probably be a bad time for Spurs to be entering that market when all the other big biggest teams are in that market too and therefore I would probably think that yeah like I would guess in that kind of like Glasner, Silva, Areola space for Spurs' next manager unless there's someone there's someone who I don't know about who's doing really really well with like a kind of quite good team in germany or france or spain but i i suspect that you know the people making that decision would want to make the kind of risk averse premier league decision which is of course how we got to thomas rack in the first place see this this is

37:47Jack:what frustrates me about spurs is that if we if we had to reconcile that we are not the team that can get a nagelsman or or an alonso um to say the sort of the blue chip manager if you like I don't understand why the fallback option on that is the safe Premier League manager. I don't know why we're not out there looking for a, I know he's had mixed results and stuff, but like a Hursler or before that, Deserby. You know, I don't understand why there's that lack of vision or the willing to try and find the next Pep Guardiola, the next Alonso, if you like, somebody who is going to be a great manager in the future that is thus far, I don't know, managing, say, a second-rate kind of Spanish team or German team or something like that.

38:40Jack:Spurs just feel that we're never going to do that, are we? I mean, I don't know if you saw yesterday on Twitter, Paul O 'Keefe was saying that there's conversations internally that we're apparently after Marco Silva, which just seems so uninspiring to me that if we were to, if we were to say sack Thomas Frank halfway through the season, or even at the end of the season, and then go for somebody like Marco Silva, who's a fine manager, he's all right. I'm sure Spurs would do okay under him, but haven't we pretty much seen all we're going to see from Marco Silva in the Premier League? I feel like Everton was his chance, that kind of step up, and that was a catastrophe.

39:22Jack Pitt-Brooke:Well, I think he's done really well at Fulham, Marco Silva. I'm a Marco Silva defender. what i would say is that i actually think spurs did spurs kind of did this when they got and right like spurs and was a slightly outside of the box appointment you know he never managed in a top

39:38Jack:five league he does he sort of he's sort of i don't know he's kind of in in i know what you mean but he's sort of half he's sort of halfway there isn't he yeah he'd only done two years in

39:48Jack Pitt-Brooke:european he'd only managed well he'd had like a very brief spell in greece at the start of his earliest career but he'd done two seasons in the SPL where he'd won everything in sight and then he came you know but he'd not had that kind of like training he'd not he'd not worked in England he'd not worked in any of the other big European leagues and I thought that was a brave appointment and you know you could argue that you know to an extent it was kind of indicated as well and then they um but I think the problem is that when they decided in the second half of last season they're going to sack sack him it feels to me a little bit like they decided well why where did ang go wrong too ideological not enough premier league experience therefore we want the next guy to be super pragmatic and with premier league experience and that led them you know to basically uh uh thomas frank or marco silver and they went for thomas frank um and then i kind of get why they did it but i don't think i think in the past they had so i think they have been capable of a degree of bravery in the past but i also just think that you need if you really want spurs to consistently take brave decisions like you need the right you know you kind of need the right people in there to make those decisions and i just think that generally speaking people who run football clubs are kind of quite risk averse you know they always want they're going to want they're going to want to sign premier league proven players and premier league proven managers um and i generally think the whole like premier league proven thing has been a bit of a disaster for spurs in certainly from a playing point of view in recent years right like how much money have they spent on madison johnson richard lison solanke kudos sure i'm missing some um

41:32Jack:but all those players you mentioned there are among some of our highest ever transfer

41:37Jack Pitt-Brooke:spents you know yeah exactly they're not but they haven't been very good whereas i think i kind of feel like if you took all those if you took all the money that went on those guys and spent it on players from france or spain or germany you would probably you would have like it'd be higher risk and high reward but i just think that clubs are generally quite risk averse

41:57Jack:but this is it this is all to me it's all an echo of as we keep saying that lack of clear footballing vision footballing strategy at the club the club they sort of seem to i don't know want to tread water on their image, on the identity that was formed under Maurizio Pochettino's tenure, still being able to, say, get a manager like Mourinho in, managing to drag Conte to the club for a bit until he got sort of annoyed about the state of everything. But it feels like, you know, if we were just sort of truthful with ourselves and honest with ourselves, we probably we really probably could operate in similar waters to somebody like Brighton and sign lots of really really good players and actually start to be a really good team and and on top of that add say players that we can with the prestige of being in London having this stadium so on and so forth all those sort of off-field boring things that people don't think count when they have these conversations about our Spurs are top six team or not but I think we all know they do count and that's whatever it is that's football and that's the business of football but because we sort of seem to want to keep saying no we are massive we are actually huge um because reasons I sort of feel like there's this there's this air of I don't know dominance that Spurs like to exert in a certain way so the fact that we can go to somebody like Bournemouth and say right we'll have your best player we can go to Everton when they're in dire straits and say we'll have Richarlison who is your fan favorite and one of your better players because we're Tottenham and we can do that without any real thought other than well we can get these players and they're good and you know that will keep us in this place where we're sort of above these teams and perhaps not quite as good as City or whoever else but you know how are we supposed to compete with them i just i don't know there's just it's it feels also uninspiring at spurs at the moment and it feels without it feels so poorly thought out or just absolutely thoughtless and as such it's not a huge surprise that we are finding ourselves in this in in this position well the position that we found ourselves in last season and really continue to this year.

44:22It is bleeding over into this year and something's got to change.

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46:14Jack:Well, they need to rethink

46:15Jack Pitt-Brooke:recruitment basically we need to rethink everything and they've got the chance to because it is i do think levy going is a real kind of year zero moment for the club but they have to have a real they have to rethink all this stuff and they can't just keep you can't just keep going to bottom half of premier league teams who need to sell for psr and finding their best player and buy them for 50 million quid because they've been doing that for like four years in a row now and i don't really think they've ever got full value for it i do think i think solanke i think Solanke and Madison are a bit different because Madison has at points been brilliant and has then had, well, two consecutive knee injuries.

46:52Jack Pitt-Brooke:Solanke I thought was brilliant at the start of last season and then had the knee injury and now this different ankle injury and hasn't started this season. But I just think they should have been a bit bolder in the market really. But I feel like, I don't know, part of me thinks that ever since, certainly with attacking players ever since in dombele in 2019 which is obviously a complete bust this sort of lost their nerve a bit for that sort of signing

47:24Jack:yeah mjb hotspur says remember when dyer said ang did little off the ball tactical work and it was all on the ball van der ven said on the overlap that it's now more italian focused on keeping a good shape and less about possession we've done it again haven't we shifted too far in the opposite direction um i mean this is i guess this is just more to this the point that we've been making across this podcast jack that the lack of a footballing strategy leads to this type of thing as well in in managerial appointments doesn't it yeah yeah totally like overcorrection is a big

48:00Jack Pitt-Brooke:thing and i think spurs spurs clearly over i think spurs over corrected i mean you could argue that suppose overcorrected where they went well basically from conte to ang and i think they almost certainly overcorrected when they went from ang to frank um and that's bizarre right because you build a squad in a certain way then if you radically change the football style every year or two then some players are suddenly gonna fit or not fit and that's what we've seen um i also think that players um like players will complain whatever whatever the situation is so For example, I remember during the end of the Pochettino era, players would complain about our training is so hard.

48:40Jack Pitt-Brooke:We'd never get days off. They're running us all the time. It's so hard. I can't take it. And then Mourinho comes in. And Mourinho, contrary to his reputation, Mourinho had an incredibly relaxed attitude to stuff like training and fitness and diet. And all of a sudden, Mourinho came in with an attitude, which is basically, you're smart, good, experienced players. You can figure this stuff out for yourselves. I'll just tell you what the plan is on match day. um and then all of a sudden the players are like oh trading is so lazy it's rubbish we'll we'll get we're all getting unfit i just want to be pushed again too many days off all that stuff so like the players have complained about two completely different sets of circumstances right and that just shows that i think play to an extent like players will always players will always complain a bit i've never i'm not i'm not aware of any players complaining about thomas frank i actually think thomas frank is very popular in the building i think he's really he's just a nice personable people person and um and a nice guy I think that carries a long way but I definitely think that that pattern of overcorrection one way or the other that is just a kind of a big part of life at Tottenham Hotspur

49:47Jack:um whilst we've been recording it's you know it's been the world's worst kept secret anyway but it's it's official now Brennan Johnson has moved to Crystal Palace are you surprised to see has let him go in January, Jack? I know there's a lot of conversation about his qualities or lack thereof, but what he can bring to the side is a lot of goals, something that Spurs have found quite hard to come by this season. Is it a positive sign that the club are acting decisively, say, getting rid of a player when there's still value there attached to him? Something we've complained about in the past that Spurs haven't done.

50:25Jack:Or do you think it seems like quite risky business?

50:28Jack Pitt-Brooke:I think it's a good thing. I think it's the right thing to do. I think that Spurs have been really bad at selling in the last sort of, well, for as long as I've been covering them. They're good at selling if they've got a world-class player who a rich team wants and you've got all the leverage and you can just charge a huge fee. But they're really bad at selling, apart from that, like selling quite good players at the right time to maximise their value. And like one of the biggest, I think one of the biggest leaving mistakes Dakes in recent years was in the second half of the Pochettino era when Poch wanted to sell most of the team really and Liby just wouldn't sell them because his view was you know we're a big club we don't go around selling our players apart from Walker who's the one who they did sell you know Roe even Dele Rose Alderweireld maybe Dier Lucas all those guys they should have sold they should have sold them and reinvest and reinvested the money and they kind of dropped the ball on that I think it that's a big part of why why the team got so much worse right because the players stuck around for too long their their values went down half of them ended up leaving on freeze or for very little and they weren't able to refresh the squad um so yeah I think you know I think Johnson's a pretty good player who's got some obvious strengths and some obvious weaknesses but he's he's just not in the team like he's he's not in the team this season and you know he's this this is not a good team either that he's struggling to get into.

51:56Jack Pitt-Brooke:And I think it's, if you can get money, if you get money for him now, take the money. Just, you know, this is exactly the kind of deal that Spurs have traditionally not done. And I think it's definitely a step in the right direction that they've done it this time.

52:10Jack:I'm already looking forward to the brace that he inevitably scores against Tottenham as well. I think we've got Palace last game of the season as well, which will be interesting. I think we do. I'm not sure. let me just double check that um we had another question from where was it gone Stuart Tyra who and I've pronounced his name Trier before so I apologize Tyra um Stuart Tyra who says how toxic do you think it will get if Sunderland score first on Sunday um difficult game isn't it tricky match this weekend for Spurs Granit Xhaka um obviously the heartbeat of that Sunderland side is no stranger to playing against Spurs.

52:57Jack:This has got, I don't want to say banana skin, because that probably underestimates Sunderland and doesn't really give them enough credit for being a pretty decent side nowadays. But it's a tricky one for Spurs, isn't it?

53:12Jack Pitt-Brooke:Yeah, they're a pretty good team. I don't know. I mean, I think that it could be tough. if Sunderland score first, I think Spurs will have to start really well. You never know. If Spurs do start well, I mean, they haven't... If Spurs do start well, there's no reason they can't go on and win the game and get everybody excited again. But I just think the mood might be a little bit fragile after what happened last night.

53:44Do you think how much this

53:49Jack:plays into the decision-making of the board? If we're sort of seeing an outright revolt, if you like, from the stands, people have just had enough if we do end up losing to Sunderland again. Is this going to factor into any decision-making, or do you think they're in it for pretty much the long run with Frank?

54:06Jack Pitt-Brooke:Well, again, that's a really good question, right? Because, again, with Levy, like, Levy ran Tottenham for 24 years, so people kind of knew how he would react and how he would do things. and you know so when sometimes after a really bad defeat he would just pull the trigger you know like AVB after that Liverpool game or Nuno after the Man United game or whatever but the Lewis family have never been in this position before like obviously they're not new owners like they've owned Tottenham since 2000 or they've been majority shareholders since 2000 rather but you know this is the first time they've had to make this decision without Levy there as a kind of, you know, conduit.

54:49Jack Pitt-Brooke:And so we just kind of don't know how Vivian Lewis and Charles Lewis and Nick Butcher will react under these circumstances. All we know so far is that they have been committed to sticking with Thomas Frank. I do think they want to, yeah, they want to be seen to be doing things the right way. They kind of believe in stability and think that's the way to run it. um my i think that the biggest challenge to that would be fans like fans you know if fans are all booing then that can have a momentum of its own but we just don't know like we've never been in this situation before and it's going to be kind of interesting to to see how that goes

55:31Jack:josh bralston on blue sky asks what's been worse spurs at home or england away in the ashes

55:40Jack Pitt-Brooke:is i actually i mean england away in the ashes has been really bad but i think england away in the ashes has been kind of in keeping with precedent uh that is and actually now that it's only only 3-1 they're actually ahead of how england are usually doing at this stage in an ashes tour whereas i think the spurs at home is not is not following precedent i think it's unusual for supposed to be this bad consistently at home. I'm speaking more about performances than results, so the results have been bad too. So I think Tottenham have been worse.

56:20Jack:We sort of said off-air, Jack, that the Ryan Searle arc in the PDC World Darts Championship right now is a nice distraction from both cricket and from Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. But Ryan Sell, at the time of recording, will be playing this evening against Luke Littler. I've been talking about it a fair bit on the pod, and I've seen you mentioning him on Twitter a bit. So I've got a question from Oliver Beach at Beachy41 on Twitter, who said, what would be your darts nickname? And the follow-up question to that from Michael at Dire Spotless Bow is, tacking onto this, which intro walkout song would you choose?

57:01Jack:do you care to do you care to get into get involved in that one uh it's a nickname i mean

57:10Jack Pitt-Brooke:there's a lot of fairly basic stuff you can do with jack you know uh jumping jack flash something like that i'm sure that's been has that been done i feel like there is a darts player called jack who comes out to jump in jack flash uh but that might be a bit obvious um so i maybe i'd be more likely to do something with my surname instead so like i mean the first well the first the first bit of it sounds a bit like pitbull so i could just be jack the pitbull pitbrook or just the jack the pitbull i could even i could even come out to pitbull um but also pitbull's not very me uh so i was thinking if it was actually up to me i would come out to king of carrot flowers part one by neutral milk hotel uh which i just think could be a quite a good vibe you could get

57:57Jack:everybody jumping around to i don't even know that song jack so you don't know you don't like neutral milk hotel i've never it's the first time i've ever even heard of them mate you first

58:06Jack Pitt-Brooke:i've ever heard of neutral milk hotel it genuinely is yeah you're one of the best neutral milk hotel

58:11Jack:coded people i've ever met i'll actually shout it oh wait hang on i know i do know this i've seen this album cover i was like the it's like a person yeah they did this one they didn't just

58:25Jack Pitt-Brooke:do one record but they they did this one record in the mid 90s which i don't know if it was actually big at the time but then it became massive afterwards and they're kind of like they're like a mid 90s cult indie thing who have got kind of huge in the last sort of 20 years um i then they did a they did a tour about 10 years ago which i saw them play at the roundhouse which which was amazing. Sounds a bit,

58:47Jack:do you ever hear of Sunny Day Real Estate? They sort of have a similar kind of thing to that as well. A like 90s indie band that found later fame, I think the past 20 years or so, they suddenly got quite a big cult following as well.

58:59Jack Pitt-Brooke:I was a big fan of real estate, but not of a Sunny Day Real Estate. I didn't realise they were two different things. Real Estate were good.

59:06Jack:Maybe, maybe it's a Jefferson Starship, Jefferson Airplane Starship. I don't know.

59:12Jack Pitt-Brooke:Also, a lot of guys have, you know like on FPL when people do like an album or a band name with a football pun like Neutral Millic Hotel is always quite a popular one but no I was I would I would totally recommend recommend them though they were good I'd quite fancy something a bit more

59:34Jack:aggro get the you know get the get the sort of the uh the lads get a bit of LSF by Kasabian something like that you know i feel like that could be quite a decent decent walk on tune for

59:44Jack Pitt-Brooke:for a darts player yeah i know that would lsf would actually be really good i was thinking of maybe going in the other direction and doing doing something very like summertime sadness by lana or something like that really lean into my like uh uh really lean into my kind of sad dad

1:00:05Jack:image get a bit of beach house space song going on there yeah yeah as you can oh yeah space will be great yeah that'll get that'll get them all going um we don't need to talk about spurs anymore ryan sell do the business lads there's there's nothing there's nothing i'm really emotionally invested in my so oh mate so much so so much he's just a great man he he's like he's on it he's kind

1:00:30Jack Pitt-Brooke:of himself i think he's not got a kind of he's not like cartoony in the way that some of these darts players are he's he just seems like a nice normal guy who's got a thing that he's really good at and uh i think people really relate to him like that particularly now that like luke glittle has done this kind of heel turn and it's turned out to be a bit of a villain it's brilliant i

1:00:54Jack:liked uh there was a tweet doing the rounds earlier that you know i know he's 18 years old and all that type of thing but they were saying ryan searle you know believe in yourself you can do anything luke littler i don't care give me your money i'm richer than you um which is yeah it's all quite funny it's all quite silly but yeah ryan searle do it lad i do like how at the start of the the tournament in the press conferences he was sort of doing the dower i couldn't care less about darts i don't care about it i'm here because it's my job and even now like him it's even gotten through his gruff exterior this sort of fairy tale tangent if you like that he's on i mean he's he's still a decent darts player i think he's been in the top 20 in the world so but it is it's the first semi-final he's been to isn't it and uh i just think it's a great story it's a great story so semi-finals on this evening yeah watch it he's the guy with the long hair and he comes out to a to black sabbath um heavy metal heavy metal Ryan Sal.

1:01:54Jack:Jack, it's been a pleasure as always, mate. Is there anything for us to look out for from you this week?

1:02:02Jack Pitt-Brooke:Or next week? We just recorded View from the Lane, our Tottenham Hotspur podcast on The Athletic, which comes out twice a week, and we've got, I just recorded one with James Moore and Danny Kelly. I am actually not going to Tottenham Sunderland this weekend because my eyes are bleeding so much in the last two games. No, it's actually my daughter's birthday, so I've got a day off Spurs, but I will be going to Bournemouth next week, next Wednesday night I think, to see

1:02:40Jack Pitt-Brooke:Spurs roll on and try and keep that position on top of the Premier League away table, which has become maybe the biggest thing they're playing for this season.

1:02:49Jack:You'll never sing that. Jack, thanks so much, mate. Happy New Year as well. Happy New Year to you too. And to all bless you.

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