Spurs Finally Show Some Fight | Relegation Richarlison Silences The Kop, Tudor Bites Back & Fan Power

21:38I'm paraphrasing, but it's just about kind of being in the moment.

21:43Phil:And when the moment is terrible, like it has been for the last few weeks or months, it's really difficult. But after a good win, that's why I'm just taking heed of that and staying in the moment, thinking it was a really good performance, a really good win, a good point to win. And letting that placate me for a little bit. And I think that's OK.

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23:50Jack:Sports Social Podcast Network. What was his name? What was his name? That little rat Sky Sports presenter that asked him those questions. I'm just trying to find it now who it was that said it. Docs and him. Yeah. Patrick Davison. Yeah. And he's, it won't surprise you, and this sort of follows on quite nicely from our conversation the last time you were on, mate. It won't surprise you to learn that he is apparently like a massive outward gooner as well. Of course he is. Again, isn't this one of those things where the club, Sky Sports, they're setting the conversation for sport in this country.

24:35Jack:Whether we like them or not, that's what they're doing. They're the most powerful broadcasting entity when it comes to sport in the UK, at least. the fact that you're letting somebody with a bias a vested interest in tottenham doing badly and people say that's ridiculous and you know these people are professionals and just i'm a professional i've i work around football i've filmed stuff at arsenal doesn't mean i hate them any less doesn't mean i wish any less ill on them do you know what i mean like it's it's i mean maybe i'm just an unprofessional prick but i don't want to say anything i'm a professional i still hate ass yeah but but do you know i mean going on there and just like mugging him off in the way that he

25:18Phil:did i just yeah i mean you know i don't know if it's kind of just that i'm reinforcing my own um or just being an echo chamber with this sort of stuff but i do feel like since sky has switched to this you know that they're all especially those post-match interviews they're trying to get a viral clip right they're trying to make it a viral thing I feel like everyone I'm just kind of sick of it sick of sick of this approach that just seems to be the consensus certainly in response to this interview the consensus that I see not just in sort of spur circles obviously obviously everyone kind of agreed with what you were just saying but even outside that I think people just like I'll turn it in mate like it's a bit of a disgrace like what you what you're doing and also it just wasn't very well executed anyway so it's not even he's smartly trying to kind of get get him and trip him up it's just really garbled and weird and it was a bit pathetic wasn't it that was kind of my response to it and the fact that eagle just didn't have a word of it either and the guy just had he didn't he couldn't trap him he didn't know how to trap him and he He was just floundering, wasn't he?

26:32Jack:Do you see Billy T. There's that moment in the interview when he starts really trying to sort of, he starts getting rattled and really going for Igor Chudor. And Igor just like puts a hand on his shoulder. And Billy's likened it to a, der, feeling in charge. The Bane moment, which is, yeah, I thought that was funny anyway. How do I answer these questions? I just want to know where your head's at now. are you like are you in this space where you're like let's take each game as it comes or are you like me now thinking that's it we're gonna finish with table now it's one game it's what no i'm not really i'm just i'm just sort of joking but i mean how how are you feeling after that because for me it's i don't know it's really it's like it's completely flipped things for me just seeing the players fighting that way and i appreciate forest is still an enormous game and we are you know that's that's the true test but we've set ourselves up in almost the best way i mean dare i say actually maybe the best way because had we won at anfield there might be that creeping sense of you know i don't know a creeping kind of arrogance or something i don't i don't know i don't know but there's the draw getting there just rewards fighting hard for a draw and getting the point I think has set us up and has given us a nice bit of momentum for this forest

27:56Phil:game right um it has yeah and I think that what it's done for me is you know I think everyone's trying not trying not to do this but the catastrophizing loop with it all right thinking the ownership's messed up the directors are messed up the manager doesn't know what he's doing the players aren't doing it the fans are all you know have all given up and it just been this absolute catastrophe that you can't see a way out of and then a performance where they're like oh maybe they are just maybe they are aware that they're going to get relegated maybe they don't want to lose half of their pay when they go down maybe they're you know and it just kind of kills a couple of these all right maybe wobble-headed um notions that you get into but that's where i am with it um and I'm just taking that for what it is at the moment yes you know we've got a game which you know the Atletico game I can see us winning that we might not win the tie but I could see us you know winning at getting a victory which you know is probably the best I mean probably the best thing is going through but I don't know I feel like a win would just do us a lot of favors right a win at home in the Champions League not losing our home record that has been really good in Europe for a good long while and then just taking that and then going into Forest so that's where I am it's just it's just giving me more hope before mate I was running on absolute fumes or I was just choking on the fumes those fumes are ignited again mate they were flammable and I'm back in and I've just got got hope and that's what you need you know to lose all hope and just sitting down and watching these games and being like I mean we're just gonna lose this and it's not about if we lose it it's what nonsense is going to happen like you know the absolute chaos of that Atletico game you're just getting like what's the next level down of this you know beforehand when uh you know maybe a month or so ago when I was thinking how is this going to pan out you know certainly when Romero got his his four four game suspension I was thinking okay need to try and sort of prepare myself for how this is going to play out we're not having any players back for a long while you know mid early to mid april at the earliest couple of come back already but but still and i was thinking okay logically or objectively as difficult as that is this is going to get worse before it gets better and i was like okay that kind of makes sense as much as it's hard to sort of make sense of something so emotional and so sort of you know catastrophize i'm talking about you know around the manchester united game where things were positivity rosy compared to how it was the last few games so that's I was kind of in the mindset of okay prepare yourself for it getting worse and then things there's still quite a lot of games to go there's still enough games put it that way that if we start to see a bit of an uptick then hopefully that then progresses and the uptick I was sort of expected not getting a point at Liverpool but around this sort of time right just as a kind of a broad spectrum and that's where we are so i'm just kind of trying to put myself in that mindset saying i thought this is maybe how it would pan out it is to a point and getting a result stop the rot next result is next game's massive then we start to get players back and probably when we've got more players back we'll get more results so that's kind of how i'm broadly setting my um um expectations for or any who is

31:24Jack:is anyone due to come back because i sort of i see mixed i know um destiny's coming back isn't he but are we getting any of the other the big boys up top back jackan um i think bergval and

31:37Phil:kudos are probably the next up um i can't remember who else is injured to be honest alderbeer's obviously out for ages so it's just probably them oh benton coo kudos and bergval are the kind of the next ones coming back. I think Kudos is likely to be the next one after, and that's sort of after the international break. So again, Berval probably in mid to end of April, same with Benton Coeur. So, you know, you can't really hang your hat on it, you know, in terms of planning, but you just need to give yourself some breathing room in your own mental distress, right?

32:13Jack:Getting Kudos back will be massive, really. I know he was, shall we say, a bit inconsistent before he actually ended up getting injured, but he was still always a constant threat and he was sort of in that bottleneck of Thomas Frank, wasn't he?

32:32Phil:yeah yeah I mean he suffered I think from Thomas Frank's rigidity about how we wanted Tottenham to play it was all very kind of highly scripted highly detailed and there was no room for expression and you know kind of natural ability which you know which is why everything would always go we'd funnel it down to Kudus right and he'd have two three players on him because it was so obvious what we were going to do just opening that up a bit letting it breathe just giving players a little bit of um you know creativity to act in the moment rather than trying to think about what they're supposed to be doing and just do it um hopefully that yeah we see less inconsistency from him because at the start of the season he was really sort of productive wasn't he and then things start again like like the league always does it always figures out quickly what you need to do and they just worked out to stop kudas to stop tottenham so and then he fell off a bit so um yeah there's no reason not to be positive at the moment because we just got a decent result that's that's the point right do you reckon uh do you reckon kinski will get the the second leg because vicario you know a lot was made about the free kick so bosley can take a mean

33:48Jack:free kick but you know the armchair goalkeeper in me would say he could have probably done a bit better with that however the save he made from was it Gakpo who had that shot when he yeah he got this he got the slice of touches on it and pushed it onto the post was was a phenomenal save really

34:06Phil:yeah I mean people haven't seemed to picked up on it certainly not like on match of the day or whatever but it actually took a nick off um Dragushin as well when it on its way through so yeah a fantastic save and that's that's really good and you know punditry and stuff will make a point of giving him some credit for that, which is well-deserved. And, you know, I think even at one point he actually put a ball in over the top right onto Xavi's feet. So I was like, well, you know, if there's any signs of things turning around, it's got to be something like that. And, you know, but then part of it is, you know, Tudor's approach or change of approach for this game.

34:42Phil:Certainly maybe even after the first goal went in, just go long, mate, just go long and plays to our strengths, which we've got two decent target men up top, play into him. And, you know, it's beneficial, obviously, because that's where the goal came from. Do you think Kinski might get the second leg? Sorry, yeah. I think it's probably a smart thing to do. I think that would kind of, again, all this stuff about taking off Kinski and not shaking his hand and not acknowledging him. To be honest, I thought that was all a bit sort of overblown. Yeah, right. He could have given a pat on the back of the head or whatever.

35:18Phil:And the Jed spent stuff tapping him on the shoulder. I don't know. I think Tudor was right to take him off. And in that moment, he's focusing on setting the team up. Doesn't have time or kind of space to make sure a professional footballer is okay. And that sounds harsh, but that was kind of my read on it. That being said, I think he started Kinski in goal for a reason in the first game. And that was to spread the minutes out a bit. it's probably a smart thing to play him again because he needs to give him the opportunity to get some confidence back because who knows Vicario might break his leg in two weeks and then we'll need Kinski so I think you know plus the idea that we're trying to and not to say that putting Kinski in means it scuppers our chances of going through but I think it shows that he'll be prioritising the Forest game if he puts Kinski in which I think yeah so yeah I think he probably does start in answer to your question very long winded answer

36:16Jack:I think you point myself though that it would be good for us to get a win on the night against Atleti but you know whether or not going through means a lot to us right now I just said you know I'd sort of be I'd rather be you know not have the distraction anymore I don't you know I can't stand the idea of us still being in this kind of relegation battle towards the end of the season and then imagine facing the prospect of a semi-final against Arsenal in the Champions League. I think it'd be too much to bear as a fan. And I just think for the club, do you know what I mean? In a game like that, I know Taddeus is to do, and we could actually beat him in Europe or something like that.

37:01Jack:But the idea of having that rubbed in our faces as well at such a pivotal moment, I'd rather just be out, be away from it. and you know whatever if that makes me like a bad fan and stuff fine everybody's allowed their opinions I just this last week you know the sort of the spotlight on the club as a result of the Champions League game and everything I just sort of thought we we can do without this at the moment we can do without like tens of millions of eyes on us did you hear what Sky Sports kept going on about because the guy said it in his post-match to Tudor and I'm pretty sure they said it pre-game as well they were talking about the fact that there's added interest in Tottenham games now that there's millions of eyes from all around the world because there's this developing story it's like that reverse Leicester it's people wanting to see wow you know Spurs might get relegated from the Premier League.

37:58Jack:This is massive. And that's surely like tenfold for a Champions League game. I don't know. Maybe it's not. Maybe that's a holiday in the Champions League. It doesn't matter because it doesn't have any bearing on the Premier League. I just kind of feel like there's always a lot of eyes on Champions League games anyway. And I just want less eyes on Tottenham at the moment. I want us to just be under the radar for a bit. I want us to just... I would love to, you know, and obviously I would love to, but like this point against Anfield, follow up with a win against Wolves and then towards the end of the season, just eke out miserable draws or just cheap little wins where we can get them and just end this season unspectacularly.

38:42Finish 15th relatively comfortably

38:45Jack:and then just summer, really think about what we're going to do. Do you know what I mean? Or is that just a deep lack of ambition on my part?

38:54Phil:No, it's not a lack of ambition. it's a route to market, right? But similarly, you can say, do we need the Champions League? Do we need good results in the Champions League to further galvanise? So, you know, it could play out either way, couldn't it? The injury situation and the lack of available players suggests fewer games are better. So on that note, then, yeah, I won't be crying my eyes out if we get knocked out. And, you know, facing Arsenal in the semis, again, like what Tudor said, I'm not worrying about that. that's the future that future might not even come to pass i'm not even putting it in my mind i mean now you've said it again like you usually do now i'm going to be ruminating on that at two in the morning but because because that's just how these these patterns go i've got a really strong uh mental state until i speak to you

39:46the demon yeah like sitting on both shoulders staring my cauldron

39:53Jack:wake up yeah um It might be a bit early, but look, there was a semi-bomber from David Ornstein in the week that Spurs are close to lining up Roberto De Zerbe in summer to take over.

40:15Jack:Have they learned nothing? like honestly have I learned nothing from the past few years that look De Zerbi may or may not be a very good coach he seems to split opinion on that I would say his Brighton team were decent and the little I've seen or heard about his Marseille team they were alright as well but it's not really anything that spectacular the main thing that stands out for me about Roberto De Zerbi is he's another extremely volatile character who is prone to kicking off and creating massively toxic scenarios when things don't go entirely according to his plan after this season after the past years surely surely surely even the the clueless anti-football not anti-football in the sense of actually how we know and you know what i'm saying the people who know nothing about football at the top of the club surely even they you can see.

41:17Jack:Just get Pochettino back in. This is surely the time to do it after this season if we stay up. Even if we go down, there's a lot of talk that you'd want to come in. I just don't see what we get from Deserby. And if it's not Pochettino, go for one of those. Go for Helberg or whatever he's called, the lad at Middlesbrough. You know, one of these young who's another Pochettino, if you know what I mean. Like Pochettino when Pochettino was Pochettino. if that makes sense. Wasn't there some quote, wasn't there, about why they didn't go for Poch the last time when we got Anjin, because they wanted Pochettino when Pochettino was Pochettino type.

41:57Jack:I keep saying Pochettino. Yeah, yeah. What do you think? Find the biggest voices in sports on the Sports Social Podcast Network.

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43:33Phil:I wouldn't be surprised if this Deserby talk is just his agents because given what this ownership or board, let's call it, the leadership has shown us recently, them having any sort of foresight about what they're going to do in the future would be astonishing if they've kind of earmarked a new manager to come in. And I know that sounds glib in that, but I don't know. I mean, it doesn't feel like a right fit. And yeah, who knows what they're going to do? Because I don't suspect that they do. So I'm taking that with a pinch of salt. I'm not again I'm not going to kind of worry about Deserby coming in Pochettino is right there it would be absolutely insane for this this ownership to not get a quick win under their belts with that that would be my kind of that's the most obvious thing not even in a footballing sense they can be like we can win over the fans here a bit get their get the guy that they love that that that um buys us some time so yeah for a number of reasons bar the obvious about um deserve it it just feels like a completely kind of wrong wrong fit and again it wouldn't like i said it wouldn't surprise me if that's just his agent kind of like talking up links well do one

44:47Jack:i've had enough of agents do you know i mean like yeah drago scenes this that can you do one um yeah

44:54Phil:he quietened down didn't he over the last few weeks that guy yeah well too right although do

44:58Jack:you know what drago sin there's been a lot of like nasty little compilations and stuff doing the rounds about him and I just sort of think you know kind of to the point I was making on the post-match like right now we just got to get behind these boys haven't we whatever we think about any of them just get behind them to the end of the year and then then in summer slag them all off do your tier lists who you want to sell all that type of stuff but for now every single player pulls on the shirt you just got you got to give them everything and hope that they give us everything don't you

45:32Phil:yeah there's no room there's no room and there's no reason for for any of the criticism we can all be smart and say i told you he was rubbish or this and the other it's not going to help us it's not going to in fact it's going to be a massive hindrance of us you know and i'm not to say that us criticizing the players in the past or kind of booing and stuff wasn't um an accurate thing or the right thing to do abusing people on social media is is you know directly is differently but saying that your performance isn't good enough in the form of a boo at halftime and at the final whistle I think that's fair game personally that has you know it seems to have had a massive effect and whether that's just oh we're using it as an excuse to not put a shift into down tools or whatever it's all sort of irrelevant now it's just about getting behind them getting behind them and you know becoming a cohesive unit because I think if that can help you know even a small amount then And it's absolutely worth it.

46:27Phil:And it's not hard for us to do if we're just a bit sensible as fans, right? To just get behind it, make it positive rather than negative. There's not being two-faced about it. It's just all sort of realizing the situation we're in and pulling in the same direction.

46:40Jack:There's some... Billy T's been tweeting about it, but I've got quite him and a core group of people who do this sort of stuff. Return of the Shelf, THFC Flags, Spurs Song Sheet. Sorry to anyone else. I'm missing out, but a few of these different kind of groups, they're basically trying to organize something for Sunday, for the Forest game. We saw the sort of scenes when Everton were in a similar position to us a few years ago of their fans outside the stadium early, welcoming the players to it, creating an atmosphere. And I'm pretty sure it's stuff along those lines. So if you are at a loose end ahead of the Forest game, is something to consider.

47:26Jack:It's something to consider getting down, even if you don't have a ticket for the game, coming down and showing the support to the players, showing them how much it means to us. You know, I don't think it's... I do want to say as well, because Billy's a part of Change for Tottenham, Change for Tottenham had organised a protest at this match several weeks ago. And so when Billy was talking about big plans for something on Sunday, a lot of people were being like, no, no, no, we can't protest at the moment. It's not good. it's not a protest. It's a positive thing that he's trying to plan with lots of other people.

47:58Jack:It's not just Billy. I'm not just trying to chuck Billy under the bus here and say it's all on him. He's part of a wider movement of people that are trying to put something on for Sunday's match, which, you know, I think this is it now, isn't it? This is the fans. We say for so long, don't we, that nobody really mobilises for anything anymore in society. Society's killed everything. Everyone's a slacktivist and all that sort of thing. But, yeah, There's moments like this when you've got to stand up and be counted, isn't it?

48:27Phil:Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, we'll be there, right? So, yeah, the word needs to get out because I know in the best will of the world, protests are a different thing, as I think you've spoken about before. So it's not really necessarily a British thing to do that, right? So it's a little bit alien of concept for us. But gathering in a positive sense is more palatable, I think. So it's just about getting that message out there, getting people down there, just to show us support. You know, again, talk about being collegiate, just reaffirming that bond between the fans and players and just to get us over the line.

49:02Phil:Because that is, frankly, our opinions, our takes, our thoughts about leadership, all that sort of thing is irrelevant at the moment. The most important thing is supporting the team.

49:14Jack:You say my takes about stuff are irrelevant. because you said you at your point and you you you were literally pointing at me your your takes

49:24Phil:um yeah i was i thought i was being more subtle than that but mate turn it in come on you're a negative influence on this lot i know that's it you see i bloody

49:37Jack:somebody clipped up me moaning about van der ven after the palace game and it went like Billy said do you see a clip from Rule the Rooster has gone like viral this morning and there's me like oh yeah finally finally something good and I look and it's all these people being like oh look at this wanker going on about Van der Ven we got fans and podcasters doing this type of thing no wonder these players don't want to play for us and when it's clipped out in isolation and there's just me being like get rid of him he can't head he can't pass I'm like, oh mate. The Dutch Secret Service is going to do you in, mate.

50:20Jack:Dude, clogs at me. Strap me to a windmill. Yeah, all your mild cheddars are going to really hurt, isn't it?

50:30Phil:That's funny, because you went viral, but it wasn't from your account, so you didn't get the number, you didn't even get any of the benefit, just the flack.

50:37Jack:Didn't get the numbers, didn't get any of the good stuff, didn't get people being like, oh, look, he said there was this awesome soliloquy from him about unity and all this. It was like, no, look at this clueless, this clueless wanker rabble rouser going on about one of our best players. And I'm like, look, when it's cut like that, you've got me banged around. I'm not going to, you know. I tell you why it's annoyed me in particular, is because it's come just after that bloody game. Like just after there's been a positive result. and it feels like everything sort of turned a bit of a corner. There's a bit more unity there.

51:15Jack:The fans are clapping the away end. It's like, why has someone chosen to cut that bit out now? From the bloody Palace game that was in the middle of last week, everyone was feeling a bit despondent, weren't they? I was sat outside in a freezing cold in Dorset. I was in a bit of a mood. Do you know what I mean? I'd had a bit to drink.

51:33Phil:Bear it on your shoulders, mate. If you're going back to the Dark Knight, right? you're you're you're the hero that what was the quote that gotham doesn't deserve but they need right now they need to blame you take it on your shoulders and then go and be a hermit for like a few years and then come back to with a busted knee i can't quite remember how that movie panned

51:52Jack:out but it's something like that i feel like you're just every turn here mate you're basically telling me to stop doing a podcast have you seen that clip it's terrible for you terrible optics mate you're a big trouble at let's go madrid whatever bunnett but forest all eyes on forest phil all eyes on forest what's your rallying cry mate what's your rallying cry to the fans to the players to everybody before we uh say good night don't listen to rule the roost is my first

52:26Phil:one um no again it's just it's just putting all of that to all of this shit that we've had to kind to fill our brains with, trying to figure out in between games why this is going so wrong, what cosmic force is against us. Put all of that to a side. Turn up and support the team. Turn up pre-match like we just talked about. Get behind the team. Make the atmosphere as best as we can make it. And stick with them because those are the only ones we've got at the moment, these players. And we need to see them over the line because

52:58Phil:whatever happens or you know if the worst happens then it's not doesn't bear thinking about so yeah we just got to pull together now we can do the autopsy in the summer yeah come on you spurs come on come on

53:13Jack:up the spurs we just got a point at anfield phil we got a point at anfield we never win there we never do it and i would love it i would love it if we if we they've got to come to us and whatever all that stuff but I'm yeah

53:29Phil:Van Der Ven scoring the winner

53:31Jack:and you're just there yeah that's it like um the bald Arsenal fan TV lad when Harry Kane scored in the World Cup and he'd sit there not just Lee is that one Lee Judges Lee Judges yeah I think so he's done it again um point at Anfield up the Spurs much love Phil uh yeah bye come on you Spurs

53:57you