Spurs Heading Into The Bottom Three? | Kudus' Injury Blow, Johan Lange's Ineptitude & Sunderland (Q&A)

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1:18Jack:hello everybody welcome back to rule the roost podcast rosa hometown glory podcast welcome back How are you? I'm all right, Jack. Thank you so much for having me. It's a really weird moment. I remember last season, you kept trying to get me on the pod to defend Ange, and I kept being like, I'm not going to be your crazy Ange ball zealot. And now I wish I'd done it, because that was more fun. And now I can look back and be like, I was so right. I like that you're admitting that you're a coward, though, in public. Completely. Me and Thomas Frank. That's all I can say. Look, let's not start on with the Ange culture war, because I get lots of very angry messages whenever I say that.

1:58Jack:Still! I don't particularly love him. He gave us Bilbao and I will forever be grateful for that. Let's move on. There we go. Let's move on. Let's start with a nice easy one. Obviously, we heard the news yesterday. I think it was Tom Barkley that first broke it, that Mahomet Kudus is basically out for the season. Great. Are we cursed? Oh, are we, Rosa? I don't think we are, actually. I thought about this a lot because it is ridiculous. It's ridiculous how many injuries we've had over the past few seasons. But it's inevitable. It's inevitable because if you want to play in multiple competitions and you pretend you're a big club who can do these things, but you don't build a squad capable of playing in multiple competitions, this is going to happen.

2:51Players aren't robots. Their bodies are going to break down. We have a lot of international players, so they're playing in multiple domestic competitions, multiple European competitions and international competitions. They cannot cope. And we haven't, we've just cheaped out again, basically. So to me, while it feels like a curse, like emotionally, it's just another inevitable consequence of shocking management, shocking squad building.

3:21Jack:Look at you bringing rationality to my... To my, you know, willy-nilly, oh, it's all magic and tarot cards and all that sort of stuff, right? Okay, all right. The crushing hand of reality. Well, if we're going to talk about the crushing hand of reality, let's talk about Roberta Deserby, apparently, taking Mohamed Kudus aside and telling him how important he is going to be for his plans for Tottenham staying up. And now we don't have him. I mean, what? Did he say that? Did he say that to Kudus? I mean, this is, again, it feels all a bit, trust me, bro, but I think it's some of the journalists have put that out into the ether somewhere.

3:57And Kuda's word, no thanks. Kuda, well, yeah, evidently, evidently.

4:00Jack:A bit much for me, that chief. I think I will. I don't need the crushing burden of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club weighing me down on top of my quad injury, is it? I mean, that also makes sense to me. That doesn't have to be like a conspiracy. It can just be, I don't really want to do this because I want to go to the World Cup, which is disgraceful, but also understandable. Are we talking about Kulisevsky now? Are we talking about Kulisevsky? Sorry. Hang on. Oh, oh, oh, oh, I went there. I went there. I'm sorry. Kulisevsky is not, I don't know if he's ever, where do you stand on Kulisevsky? Do you think he's ever going to play football again?

4:38Jack:It doesn't look good, does it? You know, the whole, how kind of rattled he got. And I understand, to be fair, I do understand it when you've gone through like a massive injury like that. And say somebody talks about you limping a bit out of context. of course he's going to be a bit rattled by that i think it's obviously something he's going to be very sensitive about um however for somebody that had a bit of a knock what how long ago are we talking now was it april march potentially it all blurs and even prior to that he wasn't like fully fit if i'm if i'm correct in saying right he's kind of he's been wobbling in and out of fitness and injury and then suddenly now just seemingly in this unending I don't know it's because the thing is it's not even like remember like back in the day Darren Anderton would be like would miss like a couple of games here and there it'd be like sick note that was sick note take me back take me back do you know what I mean no but he still probably played 20 plus games a season um i'm gonna look it up actually i bet you did whereas this is uh you know i'd honestly i don't think i've i don't think i've ever seen anything like this at spurs i really i really actually don't in and amongst all of the things that i don't think i've ever seen at spurs before happening this year um it's quite something because i mean look what's our i mean what's our other sort of point of reference ledley king who again played still managed yeah okay against doctor's orders and it was you know he was described as a freak rather you know sensitively by i think it was harry redknapp he still went out there sounds like harry yeah and played you know amazingly but yeah um blisevsky i don't know he cried because sweden qualified for the world cup will he be playing there i mean look if i was if i was a nicer person i'd probably say yeah i hope he does get to play for for sweden in the world cup but as a spurs fan no i absolutely i'll I'll lose my mind.

6:38Jack:I'll lose my mind if he plays for Sweden. I'm sorry. I'm not a nice person. Well, I think it's fair enough. You know, he's... The guy is one of our best players and we've really missed him for a long time. We need him desperately. And then if he goes off to the World Cup, I mean, it will probably happen. Let's be... That... Okay, I'll tell you what. Limps off after 10 minutes as well in his first game as well. I guarantee you. I guarantee you. If he gets there and he plays, then I will be like, this isn't about reality anymore. This is a curse. I'll give you that. Or again, if I'm to flip it on you, we have just basically allowed players to walk all over us in this way.

7:19I mean, also potentially true.

7:24Jack:I think again, though, it's one of those things, isn't it, where I think all players at pretty much all clubs are like this ahead of a World Cup. Seemingly other players, but they are on the verge of maybe a massively historic season. Let's hope not and let's not talk about that. Let's just, we're not talking about that. We're just, that's like a horrible shadow lurking around the corner. I'm just going to be like, I can't see you. If I shut my eyes, you can't see me. It's not happening. The night is dark and full of terrors, Rose. It really is this season, you know? I mean, to bring, look, let's point our eye at Johan Langer here because look, Mohamed Koulis is out.

8:04Jack:he said you know we're not going to panic in this january window we've got top players coming back and then sold brennan johnson and kudos is out whether or not right whether or not langer is the unfortunate face of the enic regime right if we're looking at kind of the thick of it style he's the guy that's getting paid probably at least half a million a year to do this he's the face of it he's the face of this failure he's gotta go doesn't he like there's this there's no way after this season he can stay in post and yes Archie Gray's gone on to be a great player and yes Lucas Bergvau looks like he's going to be a great player and there may be a few other youngsters here and there somewhere but overall as the guy who is the face of Tottenham bringing players to the football club he has absolutely failed hasn't he he's not just failed he's an absolute criminal like I genuinely I think he should be I think he should be in prison and it's put before the Hague right yeah proper like genuine genuine crimes against humanity um i can't he's so obviously incompetent he's so obviously you know that thing if people get promoted to like the point of their incompetence whatever it's called like he has kind of gone even beyond that now he is so visibly failing by every sort of measurable metric that it seems it's it's genuinely shocking to me how he's still in a job and i guess the only reason he's still there is probably because they need someone to blame and he's just a fool guy i mean it's quite i mean just look at him you know it's and he looks useless you shouldn't judge people by how they look but he looks useless and he is useless so you know it's what's inside matches the cover doesn't it like you know and and and And as you say, you know, this kind of promotional thing, like he was the nerd data, I'm going to find young players guy.

10:02Jack:And Perattici was more the, I'm going to find the flashy first team ready signings guy. And Lang has just pretty much inhaled both roles and has put himself forwards as one of the key figures at the club. So this idea that we should maybe have sort of a level of sympathy for him. Nobody's going to do one under Enoch. Yes, that may be a side point. But right now, Johan Lange is quite simply not doing very well. And as you say, I don't think he inspires any level of confidence whatsoever that the club know what they're doing. At least, you know, the one thing I would give Piratichi, who I think is probably equally as useless as Lange, maybe slightly less.

10:43Jack:I think so now. Yeah, exactly. I was quite a Piratichi fan for a long time. But if you look at the squad that those two idiots have put together, it's a shambles, isn't it? But this is what I'm driving at. Like Perattici at least could do the slick PR thing and look like he was in charge of things a bit. Langer just can't even do that, can he? He looks so nervous every time he's on camera or anywhere where he's remotely going to have any questions put at him. And as I say, this is a guy that is getting paid a hell of, I can only assume, getting paid a hell of a lot of money. right zero sympathy for him really none whatsoever take your money and go leave us alone i mean that goes for a whole bunch of them doesn't it just take your money take your ill-gotten gains and leave us all alone we don't need you you're only hurting you're not helping where are you at just while we're here with the this wouldn't have happened under daniel levy sort of narrative that's creeping in a bit this season?

11:45This is all, this is his legacy. I think potentially what might not have happened is that he would have got rid of Frank earlier, so we wouldn't be in this position, so we might not be in a relegation fight right now. But this was coming. This was, this has been in the post for a long, long time because he oversaw all of this, all of this sidelining of the actual football part of a football club. And what we all wanted, we were all like, he's a good businessman. He's obviously built this stadium. And all of this other stuff happens that brings him money. But we need someone who actually wants to make a success of the football teams that exist in this football club.

12:28And he either didn't want to do it, or didn't understand what you need to do it. He was always like so many steps behind, You know, we didn't even, when I think, you know, I'm going to, I'm now going to bring in the obligatory reference to the great Pochettino team that I know you always have to have every podcast.

12:47Jack:Please, yeah. Let me, let me just tap the sign. There we go. Yeah, here it is. We didn't, we had like the best team in the country, but maybe not by miles, but it was the best team in the country and we had a great manager. and they didn't buy anybody they didn't buy anybody so we had it we had a first 11 and nobody else and i now look at the other lot and i think this just it proves that we could have done it we could have done it but they didn't they didn't understand what you needed to do it and they weren't prepared to make any sacrifices they weren't prepared to take any risks they weren't prepared to say okay we've got this stadium and it costs a lot of money, but we are just going to have to gamble and just take out an extra loan, whatever.

13:33I'm not a finance person. I don't know, but they all are. So just get some extra money and buy some extra players. But they didn't want to take a risk. And when you don't take that kind of risk and you continue to play it incredibly safe and incredibly cheap, this is where we end up. So yes, we might not be in a relegation battle if Levy was still here, but we would probably end up in one anyway at some point because you can't run a football club like

13:59Jack:this i mean what's becoming increasingly more painful for me and just kind of surreal seeing harry kane score a blinder at the bernabal and just generally play brilliantly and have everybody talk about how he's going to win the ballon door this season i even saw an article the other day i think it was i think it might have been l 'equipe i think they were saying that you know england for the first time are going into a world cup with the best player in the world in their side you know in reference to harry kane this guy played for us for how long for how long and we didn't realize that we had one of the greatest players of his generation if not one of the greatest players of all time you know we did and i'm really not overstating that i'm sorry i'm really not overstating that this is we're talking about genuinely one of the greatest footballers of all time was playing for us for a decade and we didn't think hang on we've got a really good opportunity here to win a premier league to win a champions league yeah and to this point to the kind of the point about taking your eye off the footballing stuff and i look i know people think you're just being a kind of well think i'm being like some sort of blowhard that needs to get over it but we got Tyson Fury fighting at the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium White Hart Lane this week and again you know in all of his preamble he's taken the opportunity to have a punt at us you know to say it's something to the degree of like you know hopefully there'll be some success in this stadium this year because Tottenham are shocking type thing we've been put in this position where great we get to host all these lovely big events and stuff but last time we did this we had a boxer to come out to North London forever playing in our ground.

15:44Jack:We've got this happening. Look, these sort of things are going to happen. I think it's a big Manchester United fan. Football's one of those tribal things where people are going to have a pop at us. However, to your point, we have put ourselves in a position where we're such an easy target for this stuff that people think it doesn't matter. But this stuff matters to me. I don't like the thought of people coming to our ground and talking about us in this way. It just, it isn't right to me. It's not right, you know? It's not. It's really, like, on a personal level for myself, I try not to be that bothered by it because I, like, I simply, I can't go through life like this all the time.

16:22It's just exhausting. But I've got, you know, I've got kids and I just, like, why should they be put in a position where they can just get, like, bantered off by any old idiot in the playground? Do you know what I mean? It's like, it's Tottenham Hotspur. Like, we should not have this happen to us. We are a great old club with an amazing history. And we just won a European trophy literally last season. You know, all of those are amazing things. And the sort of ebb and flow of success and failure is normal. But this level of, like, daily humiliation should not be happening to us. And it shouldn't be happening to...

17:02Jack:It's torture. Yeah. Yeah. And there's only so many things after a while. I don't know, I sort of got to the point, you know, we're not, we don't have to talk about Deserby or anything, because everything that is going to be said has probably been said on all of our podcasts and various platforms. But there was a point like last week, where I did just think, what is, what am I doing? What is the point of all this? This club that I love, that we all love, they make it so hard, that almost impossible. You shouldn't have to go out and feel like you've got to have like the thickest skin just to support your football team.

17:42Do you know what I mean? You should just be able to say, this is a team that I support and I support them because my dad supported them or I support them because I grew up around there or for any other crazy reason. It's just an accident of history that this is your football club. But you shouldn't have to feel like you've got to protect yourself all day, every day from nonsense just to enjoy football it's just it's it's quite mad though isn't it and again it

18:06Jack:points to just that sort of unique position we're we're in whereby we're big and relevant enough to be constantly in the spotlight but then not good enough to as you say avoid having every single thing kind of weaponized against us i mean look a lot of this is like bad faith and a lot of this you can blame on and as i always rant on about on here you can blame on those kind of like sky cartel type broadcasters who want to keep tottenham in their place people like gary neville who hold such sway over football in the uk who can just constantly go on about spurs pat them on the head you know the whole narrative so much so do i mate and this the whole narrative this season has been you know well no of course it's not a surprise tottenham are in the relegation battle they're not as big as they think they are fuck off with your disingenuous stuff man of course it's a surprise that Spurs are in this position, you know?

18:57Jack:But also, if we're not that big, why do you always talk about us? Stop it. That whole thing where he said it would be good for the Premier League if Tottenham got relegated. Don't, please don't. I'm like, okay, sorry, I won't trigger you. But can I say, I don't know if you saw, did you see? So here's the gantry, the commentary gantry was for the, I think for the Carabao Cup final was in and amongst all the City fans. And there's a video of the City fans just giving him, Gary Neville, pelters or all match to the point where he got rattled and sort of turned around all aggy telling him to like shush and i don't think he offered him out as such but he was telling him shush and they're all laughing at him being like he's rattled he's rattled that's what it has to be at tottenham it has to be a hostile place for him now he can't i'm not i'm not advocating anyone swings for him or something but i'm saying shout abuse at him like within reason you know what just make it a miserable place room these these people are too comfortable sitting there and just the thing is his words count his words matter i think i think there is a tangible return on the on for example his christian romero narrative i think there's tangible returns on that now i genuinely believe that and also vicario i think there's tangible returns on him having probably a month of just saying you can push vicario about you can get him he's weak he's this he's that where vicaria was basically just getting fouled every other week and referees weren't doing anything because yeah you know i don't know where is gary no i can't rose it winds me up so much honestly narratives have power this is the reality like we facts are important but as we see across the world in so many different cases what people feel is more important or has a greater impact than than the reality on the ground i venture to suggest well but this is that whole thing is it you know the whole sort of smug facts don't care about your feelings thing it's like no you're an idiot feelings do matter like of course they matter of course like elections and stuff are won on a heft of emotion ultimately exactly people aren't reading parties manifestos you know that's the thing nobody reads manifestos i care about this stuff and even i'm like i don't care i feel like we're i feel like we're going down a different path here so let's let's put it onto a cheery one let's west hammer playing wolves tonight and if west ham win we'll be in the bottom three for the first time in 18 years

21:34Jack:in a classroom of sodas most stay quiet then there's mr pib sweet cherry bold outburst the kind of flavor that gets attention. Bull kick of cherry. And you'll miss the pin. You don't wash your jersey during a win streak. You don't switch seats when your team's up big. And you definitely don't shave during the playoffs. When things are working, you don't change them. That's why when you drink Jägermeister, you drink it ice cold. Anything else? Well, that'd just be bad luck. Drink it cold or don't drink it at all. Jägermeister. Damn, that's cold. Drink responsibly. Jägermeister liqueur, 35 % alcohol by volume.

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22:1818 years. Okay, so when was that?

22:21Jack:I think it's, is it Ramos? Was that the last time we were in the bottom three? Two points for eight games? Yeah, it must be, right? It must be. Two points for eight games. So I guess my point is, do you think Spurs actually, the narrative, if we're talking about, I guess that bleeds on quite nicely from that last little chat we had. Very nice. Emotionally speaking, Spurs being in the bottom three ahead of the Sunderland game, does that add more pressure to the fixture? Or do you think we are now just in a place where it doesn't really matter what's happening outside of us. We just have to basically win every game we're in or try to, really.

22:56Jack:Do you get what I'm going at? I do. I think it does add more pressure, unfortunately. I'd like to sort of say it doesn't matter. It really does, doesn't it? It really does. But yeah, it's really, it's honestly, the thing is, it's going to happen. because while West Ham are terrible and Wolves have improved, they haven't improved that much. And it does matter. It does matter. It's going to be absolutely ghastly. Like, I've had, like, a nice few weeks off from these idiots and not having to really think about actual football. And I know tonight is going to be awful. Like, it's going to happen, and I'm going to have, like, the next two nights, like I'm going to sleep so poorly, so poorly.

23:41And I'm going to wake up in the middle of the night with my, like, like panicking, not knowing why. And then I'm going to remember why and it's going to be even worse.

23:51Jack:Oh, yeah. Spurs are back. Great. Yeah. It's. Because what does that put us? It puts us, if they win, how many points? There'll be two points ahead of us, right? As well. Let's just double check. Oh, they're at home as well. Yeah. I mean, the thing is, just whilst I look at this. So, yeah, if West Ham win, yeah, two points ahead of us. Okay. So that's quite bad. I mean, what's worth remembering, although Forest did just beat us 3-0 at home, both Forest and West Ham are terrible. They're both terrible. Leeds, who aren't clear of this yet, are also terrible. So, you know, that's just kind of what we have to try and keep in the back of the world.

24:35But the thing is, okay, here's a question for you. Like, how bad, do you have any sense, right, of how bad we are really? Do you know what I mean? Because obviously we're really bad. We've only won twice at home in the league all season. We haven't won a game in the league this year and we've got loads of injuries. But I still feel like I don't have any, and maybe it's because I just, like I don't watch enough football that's not Tottenham to have a real sense of this beyond sort of points on the board. but like how bad like is there a world where and I guess this is what I'm clinging to where Deservey comes in and is you know remember who you are you are actually all professional football players and you can actually play good football you've just been like anti-coached for the past season but then I'm like what if they're just not very good I'm yeah because there's on

25:27Jack:one hand and I get there's narrative as in they already had such a healthy lead so on and so forth but the atletico game did at least demonstrate that there's a level of ability there uh i think i do think and i know i know i've got him in my crosshairs at the moment but i do think for example we've been too comforted in telling ourselves that certain players and i'm using mickey van der ven as an example these do are much better than they are um i think there's i I think there's a serious reality check that needs to be had at Spurs. Like again, for example, and these are two players who I adore, I think are wonderful and have been two of the shining lights of our season.

26:13Jack:But Gray and Bergvall are children. There should be senior players ahead of them. Like they're just, there should be. And I think at times Gray and Bergvall have both shown their immaturity. But Gray right now is brilliant. And he's performing. He's our best player. like he's amazing isn't it so you know this this is the thing but my point is that there's a level of smarts that comes with experience with maturity be it dark arts be it just knowing how to manage an occasion and I think rather damningly for somebody who is again as I always say I always sort of stick up for him who I think people are very unfair on but it's still not been one of our best players of the past 10 years I still think when Ben Davis comes into the fold you see just a level of experience a way in which he can manage an occasion a way in which he can manage a game which so few of our players have um i feel like that was just for me thank you and i also just think we've got a lot of players who might be really really talented but maybe just don't really care that much about spurs and i'm you know i don't really want to like single certain players out there but i think there are a lot of players who the second we go down if we go down will say to their managers in no uncertain terms, I am not playing in the championship.

27:32Jack:Get me out of that club. Yeah, and let's be honest, Mickey van de Ven is first on that list. Yeah, and I'm sure there'll be, you know, other players who perhaps share a nationality with him that will be on that list as well. I don't want to think that. Yeah, but, you know. I mean, I'm sure you're right. I just don't want to think about it. I don't want to think about it. and do I think we're that bad no but also and this is kind of to you know I keep on referencing this but I'd completely forgotten about it and it's it's pretty revelatory Antonio Conte's comments that Dan Kilpatrick dug out not so long ago is that they're just there aren't bad teams in the Premier League anymore really like all right Burnley aren't particularly great but even Wolves have been smashing it for the past few weeks like yeah it's a tough league it's a tough listen everyone's rich everyone's really good Conte spoke truth Conte spoke truth people didn't want to hear it but he spoke the truth that's just a fact I know you didn't like it at the time either yeah yeah this feels like this feels like a big exercise and me not only winding myself up but you kind of just stoking it a bit like oh yep Jack's gonna lose it again I know I'd just push him that little bit he's you know he's already leaning over the edge I just need someone else to do it before I do because honestly I'm on the edge like genuinely I'd like if I I just have to keep sort of my eye either like down or like on the horizon where it's so far I can't see anything because if I look into the sort of short short and medium term future like I just I can't do it I can't do it I feel like completely suffocated by intense anxiety I mean that's as much as I talk about relegation and spurs going down as a concept I'm not really thinking about it if you what i mean like i'm kind of like that might happen but still i have that kind of roadblock somewhere that's like spurs i'm going to get relegated you know that's that's that's not going to happen i can't i just can't picture it lauren and i were talking about this on hometown glory earlier this week last week i can't remember and i said i'm not cut out for this and she said but you shouldn't be like we shouldn't be in this position and it sounds really entitled and it is maybe but why would we even though i've said this has been coming you know friend of the pod tom always says like it's been coming for years but it shouldn't be coming this shouldn't be happening this shouldn't be happening to us we don't belong here that's why we can't handle it and i don't care if that's entitled do you know what i mean i don't care i'm not bothered i don't care i know at all we shouldn't we're talking this is the thing we are as you were saying earlier we're Tottenham Hotspur.

30:11Jack:We have a proud history. That means something. This crap, this swilling about in the mud, doesn't happen to us. This isn't us. It isn't us. No. How are you feeling about us? That's what they've done to us. Well, I mean, how are you feeling about Sunday? Because, again, Sunderland aren't that good either. They're not. They've got Granit Xhaka, who, yeah, is going to love nothing more than to try and win back the favour of people that wish death upon his children. That's Arsenal fans. you know but that's that's the world we inhabit everybody wants to have their North London is red post on Instagram don't they so what do you think I don't want to I don't want to wind you up any further but I've always had a real soft spot for Granit Xhaka I know this is this is really weird I'm sorry I know like I know look I have weird he's so Arsenal as well but I don't think he is because they don't really they weren't very good when he was captain.

31:11It wasn't like he was captain of an all-conquering Arsenal side. He was quite chaotic and he would always do like mad things, get sent off against Burnley. Do you know what I mean? So he was actually quite a sort of destructive presence as I remember it.

31:26Jack:Hopefully brings that energy to this game. That'd be really good. A nice shaka record, 13 minutes. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, done. If he does that, then I'm on side of him. Hero forever. Yeah. I feel, yeah, again, it's one of those things, isn't it? Where I'm like, what? They're not very good. They've fallen, they started really strongly and they've fallen off, obviously bar their Derby victory the other week. But at the same time, I just don't, I don't know, I don't know who we are anymore. I don't know what we've got about us. I mean, I suppose this is part of the thing of having a new manager, is I also, I don't know how we'll look.