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Rule The Roost - Podcast Episode Summary
Episode Title
Spurs In An Existential Spiral | Frank Gone, The Legacy of Incompetence & The Retractable Pitch Injury Curse (Q&A)
Episode Description
In this episode, Jack is joined by Jon Bass to discuss the recent sacking of manager Thomas Frank. They reflect on Frank's tenure, the existential crisis facing Tottenham Hotspur, and contemplate the future of the club. The duo also tackles listener questions, including the impact of the stadium's retractable surface on player injuries.
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Key Themes Discussed
- Thomas Frank's Departure
- Relief and Reflection:
- Jack expresses relief at Frank's dismissal, feeling the decision was overdue.
- The conversation evolves from initial sadness over the team's performance to excitement about potential change.
- Incompetence and Damage:
- Frank’s management is deemed incompetent, with discussions around the existential spiral the club finds itself in due to his tactics and decisions.
- Future Appointments
- Interim Solutions:
- Discussion on potential interim managers and the need for a manager who can quickly galvanize the team.
- Names like Harry Redknapp and even the notion of a guest management system are humorously proposed.
- Long-term Vision:
- Need for a long-term strategy to stabilize the club and restore fan confidence.
- Injury Concerns
- Retractable Pitch Discussion:
- Jon answers listener questions about injuries potentially being linked to the stadium’s playing surface.
- While there is a belief in a possible connection, the hosts acknowledge that some injuries may just be bad luck.
- Club Management and Direction
- Critique of Leadership:
- A deep critique of the current board and management structure, with calls for better decision-making processes.
- Jon emphasizes the need for management that prioritizes character and motivation over data-driven decisions.
- Player Mentality and Culture
- Lack of Commitment:
- The hosts discuss the need for players who are committed to the club and willing to fight against relegation.
- There is a call for a culture change, emphasizing hard work and dedication over talent alone.
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Listener Questions and Insights
- The discussion incorporates multiple listener questions, ranging from the impact of injuries tied to the stadium to the feelings of hopelessness among fans.
- There is a sense of cautious optimism at the end of the discussion, with the acknowledgment that while the club is in a mess, there is still an opportunity to turn things around with the right leadership and player commitment.
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Conclusion The episode reflects a mix of frustration, humor, and hope for the future of Tottenham Hotspur. Despite the club's current woes, there is a shared belief among the hosts that a managerial change provides an opportunity for renewal and potential success. The significance of leadership—both on and off the pitch—is underscored as essential for the club's recovery.
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Note: For further listening and insights, tune into more episodes of "Rule The Roost" where Jack and guests tackle the evolving state of Tottenham Hotspur.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VORelief Over Frank's Departure
0:44 to 3:04
Discussion about feelings of relief after the sacking of Thomas Frank and the potential for change.
“I've done like 50 pods the last few days.”
Reflections on Team Performance
3:04 to 5:30
Analysis of the team's recent poor performances and the implications for relegation.
“And football, I know you and I are quite similar in the way that we see it.”
Interim Management Considerations
5:30 to 7:40
Discussion on the need for an interim manager and the qualities required.
“If you can't convince like a Pochettino to just sack off the US, which is unlikely, right?”
Youth Players and Club Identity
7:40 to 10:00
Exploration of the importance of integrating youth players into the squad.
“You need to bring in the byfields of this world.”
Possible Management Candidates
10:00 to 14:00
Debate on potential candidates for the managerial position and their suitability.
“You either need old Wiley pros, which we should have signed in January, which we haven't, and you need a mixture of players who care about the club.”
Concerns About Frank's Impact
14:00 to 16:48
Discussion on Frank's potential influence and player responses.
“Yes, he's obviously come from Slott's successful championship winning team, the Premier League winning team.”
Players' Mentality and Performance Issues
16:48 to 20:52
Exploration of the players' attitudes and their responsibility in performance.
“Why do you think we are doing what we're doing?”
Need for a Back-to-Basics Manager
20:52 to 22:35
Argument for hiring a straightforward, experienced manager to simplify tactics.
Analysis of Brentford's Managerial Success
23:07 to 27:20
Discussion on Brentford's managerial approach and its implications for Spurs.
“And this has happened with every single one of their managers.”
Over-Intellectualization in Football Management
27:20 to 28:00
Critique of the current trend of data-driven management in football.
Show all 25 chapters
The Importance of Man Management in Football
28:00 to 30:13
Exploring the critical role of man management and psychological skills in modern football.
Examining Successful Managers and Their Traits
30:13 to 32:41
Analyzing traits of successful football managers and why they matter in today's game.
Frank's Fatal Flaw: Negative Press Conference Remarks
32:41 to 33:10
Highlighting the detrimental impact of negative statements made by coaches in press conferences.
“look down he was always looking up he was always protecting the club and wanting to promote the club as being better and bigger and not taking any shit from anyone and it those two were successful for those reasons.”
The Uncertainty Surrounding Spurs' Future
33:10 to 35:38
Discussing the feeling of uncertainty for Spurs following managerial changes and upcoming matches.
“And do you know at the time I really tried to play it off, it's just like, it doesn't bother me that much.”
Injuries and Superstitions: The Retractable Pitch Debate
35:38 to 39:06
Debating the role of the retractable pitch and its potential impact on player injuries.
Cynicism Surrounding the New Stadium
39:06 to 42:00
Exploring public sentiment regarding the new stadium and its perceived negative effects.
“is it compound injuries when you're running basically it wears your joints down because because it's something to do with the glass.”
Debating the Stadium's Impact on Team Performance
42:00 to 43:40
Exploration of the perception that the new stadium may be linked to the team's struggles.
Reflecting on Managerial Decisions and Timing
43:40 to 45:40
Discussion on the timing of managerial changes and the team's recent performances.
“I worked with this guy once, and he said his mate owned his own company.”
Assessing Current Player Strategy and Team Dynamics
45:40 to 47:20
Analysis of player decisions and the approach to managing the squad amidst challenges.
“disgrace like a proper stinker for what we needed at the time to not get anything done that we actually needed for anyone is crazy.”
Finding Hope After a Managerial Change
47:20 to 49:40
The panel shares optimism following the recent sacking of the manager and potential for team revival.
“I'd basically be doing a squad audit, one-on-one, sitting down with them going, we're in a relegation battle, are you up for this?”
Ideal Managerial Candidates for Spurs
49:40 to 51:40
Exploration of possible managerial candidates and their suitability for Spurs.
“because we're going to go out and try and win the game.”
Creative Ideas for Interim Management
51:40 to 56:01
Fun speculation on how to creatively handle the interim management position at Spurs.
“I loved that old soundbite of his that time, like back in the day when I think he'd just beaten Mourinho's Chelsea and I think Mourinho had stormed out of his press conference and he's like cackling.”
Discussing Female Managers in Football
56:01 to 56:50
Explores the potential of female managers in men's football, focusing on Emma Hayes.
“There's another gaffer at the USA that I'd chuck a load of money at and just, do you know what I mean, give it a go.”
Personal Feelings Towards Managers
56:51 to 59:26
Hosts share their feelings about various Spurs managers, including Conte and Frank.
“But like you say, lots of toxic men in a dressing room.”
Reflections on Club Management
59:27 to 1:04:08
Reflects on the current state of the club's management and future direction.
“yeah I never hated him I think Conte is the one he is definitely the one that I just hated him did you hate Frank?”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Jack:With Venmo Stash, a taco on one hand and ordering a ride in the other means you're stacking cash back. With Venmo Stash, get up to 5 % cash back when you pick a bundle of your favorite brands. Earn more cash when you do more with Stash. Venmo Stash terms and exclusions apply. Max$100 cash back per month. See terms at Venmo.me slash stashterms.
0:17Jon Bass:I promise you one thing. One thing is 100 % sure. We will lose football matches. I haven't seen a team that are not losing any football matches. is Arsenal that we can't mention in the Premier League. So I made my first rookie mistake there.
0:34Jack:Hello, everybody. Welcome back. Oh, that was a start, wasn't it? Hello, everybody. Welcome back to Rule the Roots podcast. Jon Bass, you've done like 50 pods the last few days. I've done like 50 pods the last few days. We can't get enough, can we, mate? No, I can't get enough.
0:49Jon Bass:I've got Joe Rogan after this, mate, so can't hang around for too long because I've got to jump on that. Yeah, I mean, look, when mad things happen, it's like the bat signal goes up, doesn't it, for podcasters? Everyone's like, quick, to the microphones.
1:03Jack:I suppose I might get relegated. Well, at least I might get some more listens.
1:06Jon Bass:Yeah, that's all we care about. We don't care about the club. We just care about listens. That's all it is.
1:11Jack:Worked for Arsenal Fan TV, didn't it, for a long time. So, you know. I've done a lot of talking on this, mate. So I'm just going to ask you very open-endedly, how are you feeling? the news strikes this morning Thomas Frank is gone how are you feeling I felt a sense of relief
1:30Jon Bass:my feeling after last night and before Frank was actually sadness it wasn't anger I'd kind of got past that it was like this setting in realization of like this is happening we're gonna go down they're not gonna sack him and I'm just sad about that because I don't have any control over the situation and this is awful and I was literally messaging anyone that would listen going they're not going to sack him like they don't see this they don't understand this problem they just they just don't get it and thankfully I was wrong because they have now finally after a long time we've all been thinking feeling saying that they need to make a change they have finally done it which has got to be a positive thing right so at least it's the first step in the right direction of course correcting this major issue.
2:17Jon Bass:So my initial feeling straight away was relief. Like, oh, thank God. Like, they aren't just going to keep letting this run. We couldn't have gone into that scum game with him in charge. Like, that would have been horrific. And as the day's gone on and I've listened to, you know, I've listened to your pod. I've obviously been speaking about it on my own pod and various different bits and pieces and looking at everything on Twitter. And I'm just feeling this sense of excitement again. And it's so simple, isn't it, football? Like something changes, something moves, and suddenly the world opens up and you can start to think about potential avenues of how do we fix this?
2:55Jon Bass:What's next? If we can stay up, who do we get? You know, who's going to be the interim? All of these questions starts coming to your mind. And that's the thing that gives you hope. And football, I know you and I are quite similar in the way that we see it. I'm quite romantic about football. It should give you hope. It should be exciting. And even in these times when it's pretty bleak and we're going to be in a relegation battle, changing the manager at this moment in time gives me hope that we're now going to fight in that battle. And that's all I want at this moment in time is just to give ourselves something, give ourselves a chance to make something positive out of this very, very negative situation.
3:33Jack:who on that pitch then i ask you mate is up for the fight because frank is gone and that is i agree with you that's definitely a relief i think it's a roll of the dice it's a hail mary whatever you want to call it right it's it's a signal from the club that they realize they are now in trouble and something has to change they fucked up the transfer window by not getting anything other than Connor Gallagher across the line. Nothing significant, at least. They've let Scarlett go. You know, whatever you think of him, it's another body, it's another player, somebody that I believe would bleed for the shirt.
4:12Jack:The squad's not in a good place. I don't look at many of that. That Newcastle game last night, whether they're throwing Frank under the bus or not, was disgusting. It was abject to me. That was a terminal performance. And it was such a horrible feeling because I have spoken about this, about Tottenham's decline and about my fear that we might be in a relegation battle and all that type of stuff. I honestly believe last night was the first time that I looked at it and genuinely thought I was actually quite convinced we are going down. Not we're in a relegation battle, we are getting relegated. Like if this carries on, we are actually going to go.
4:56Jack:it's not just something for me to waffle on about on a post-match pod and then with we're okay in the end okay we finished 17th but still we haven't gone down we suffer arsenal winning the league blah blah blah blah blah last night i was watching it thinking we're going down it was horrible it was like uh it was almost and you know i don't mean to play this stuff down or anything but it was like you know it was almost like there was a sense of like pre-mourning or something about it I spoke to Phil earlier and he sort of nailed it in that usually you wake up after a bad Spurs result have a few minutes whatever you make your coffee and stuff and then it hits you like bloody Spurs this was one of those you woke up like oh my god like the feeling hasn't changed like we're in big big trouble Frank is obviously a huge part of that he's gone but I'm not entirely convinced that's the end of it like we're still in big trouble right and I'm just worried about who digs us out of this now from this point yeah look this is this
5:57Jon Bass:is the thing right and this is what I'm saying it's you go through these sort of uh turns of emotion so like I said it went from sadness to like relief and then I'm starting to get a little bit excited but obviously there's part of me that's like if we get this wrong where do you go from here so this is like a super important hire and for me look if if I was in charge like of making this specifically this decision then for me it would be a case of you need to prioritize someone who can just galvanize the players on an interim basis I wouldn't be looking to make a permanent hire because in extreme conditions which is what we're in you're going to make a mistake trying to find someone that can fix this problem and also can be a good hire for us going forward it's just a bad time to make a long-term appointment so i think we have to be looking at like interim basis because you've got to just do the first thing right just take the next step the next step is to stay up we have to just prioritize that above everything else and so i'll be looking for a manager who can galvanize this group of players the ones that are available and get them playing and for me that has to be like and i'm not saying this person but just like a Harry Redknapp type, a manager who's been around the block, who knows how to do it, who knows how to just galvanize these players who can come in and make that work.
7:17Jon Bass:If you can't convince like a Pochettino to just sack off the US, which is unlikely, right? Or to try and do a dual role, which is what I would be trying to do. I would be trying to basically say to him, you're not doing anything with the United States. Like what could you possibly be doing day to day until the World Cup starts? come and manage us until the end of the season keep us up go back and do the world cup and then come back and manage us properly if you can't do that which is pretty unlikely granted then we just need someone who can galvanize the players and get them excited to play football again you know i always look at when um when hidink used to go to chelsea he wasn't doing any sort of tactical revolution right he would just let the players have a bit of fun he would just engage them a little bit and so i'll use the sort of harry redknapp type as just an archetype but like someone who can just let the players off the leash a little bit.
8:08Jon Bass:Let them have fun. You need to bring in the byfields of this world. He needs to play. He just needs to play. You just need to say to him, you know what it means to play for this club. This is your club. You're going to play. I'm going to play you wherever I can, as much as possible. You are going to play for the next few weeks. You need to start getting, Williams Barnett needs to be first sub off the bench. I'd get Mikey Moore back off loan. We need him.
8:33Jack:We can't do it. I didn't know this. You can't do it outside the transfer windows.
8:37Jon Bass:Unbelievable. So I guess that's the same for Scarlett, right? Because I'd be doing the same thing there. Be like cancelling his loan and bringing him back.
8:43Jack:We need them back.
8:44Jon Bass:We need them. We need them. Because it's not just that we need players, right? To your point, and I think this is what you're alluding to, is we need players who give a shit, who care, who actually care. And look, there's a lot of talk about Poch coming back. But one of the things that I think people forget, because a lot of people are talking about, yeah, but he had a great squad. But he didn't. At the very beginning, he had a very similar situation, which is established players who don't really care. And one of the first things he did, and he spoke about this in his interview with this high-performance podcast, was he just looked at the squad and the youth team and was asking youth team coaches, like, who's ready for this?
9:20Jon Bass:Who's up for this? Who wants to get involved with this? And Mason was a player that they said, like, he's ready. He wants this. He's going to make the leap up and you should get him involved. Now, Mason came and went pretty quickly, actually. We all sort of remember that period of Mason and Benteleb and Kane, obviously, and Townsend and Winks and these kind of players. But it was quite short-lived, but it was what we needed at the time to galvanise the fan base. The fan base will always get behind youth players, and the youth players will always give way more than sometimes more talented players.
9:56Jon Bass:And in these kind of scenarios, that's what you need, especially in a relegation battle. You either need old Wiley pros, which we should have signed in January, which we haven't, and you need a mixture of players who care about the club. We don't have a ton of those, but we do have some youth players who are clearly talented. They need to be given minutes. And then there's probably other players. I mean, again, I'm not an expert on the youth team, but I've heard a lot about some of the other youth players that are in our setup. They need to be fast-tracked in and around the squad and pepper them in to fill this squad out.
10:27Jon Bass:Because what's the option, Jack? We made an absolute hash of the transfer window. So you've got players there who care about the club. They've got to be integrated in. And for me, it's a case of you need to basically create a siege mentality in this squad. You need to sit down and go, look, forget about what's going to happen next season, what moves you want to make. If you're on loan or if you're on a permanent deal, if you've got five years left, one year left, forget it. Nobody in this dressing room wants to be relegated. if you don't care about being relegated please put your hand up thanks very much you'll be on full pay you can just go home no drama no no no judgment no questions asked just just put your hand up and go out the room everyone who wants this fight and wants to get involved like this is what we're going to do this is how we're going to play this is how we're going to get results we're going to play like aggressive attacking football we're going to get on top and we're going to try and win games we're not going to try and not lose we're going to try and win games and i'm going to prioritized players who want to die for the shirt that's the the priority you need to get the likes of palina who is a leader on the pitch who knows what it's like to win and to graft you need to get him involved as much as possible because it seems like we don't have many leaders and he is one of them and then you've got you've got to try and find a way to galvanize this squad mentality wise because they are definitely capable of playing better, but they also, if they have sort of down tools or they're not having the manager, they've let themselves slip into bad form and you can't just turn that off and on.
12:01Jon Bass:So they will have to, whoever is this manager, they will have to get in these players' heads pretty quickly and get them interested and excited and get them back into form to give us any sort of chance. So it's not going to be easy, mate. It's not going to be easy for whoever steps into this role.
12:16Jack:I think look we can pretty much safely say that Pochettino isn't coming now he might come in summer but you know again I don't really you see conflicting reports on that you see on one hand a Miggie Delaney saying that Pochettino is Tottenham's top target and then the I can't remember who it was one of the other journos backed up something that Paul O 'Keefe said to me earlier on in the season which is there's no appetite at Tottenham whatsoever to revisit at Pochettino that the board want to start a new era of Tottenham. They don't want to go back. But right now, right now, who do you want in charge, mate?
12:58Jack:Are we, because look, we've got Johnny Heitinger that we've just brought in, who obviously was a very capable number two for, what's his name, Arna Slott previously, has gone to Ajax, has had a horrible time there as a coach himself. Come back to be Frank's number two. are we going to entrust him to the end of the season? We've got Justin Cochran, one of the more promising coaches in the country, really, over the past few years. Is he somebody that we're going to maybe give a chance to step up to the end of the season? Or is it going to be Mace or something like that that we bring in, you know, that we need that club man?
13:38Jack:We need somebody that loves the club, will use the young players. I have no idea. I genuinely have no idea. I guess the pecking order would be Heitinger, I think, probably. Or would it be Cochran? I don't know.
13:54Jon Bass:But that in itself, mate, is bleak, isn't it? Heitinger had an absolute stinker at Ajax. Got no association with the club. Yes, he's obviously come from Slott's successful championship winning team, the Premier League winning team. but he's then gone to ix now an absolute stinker and they hate his guts and then he's been with us for two minutes you've got cochran who's part of this setup who's part of this setup who's we don't know he does have that stinker frank about him now doesn't he that's the problem and we don't know you know like this is the issue right we don't know inside the dressing room whether he's seen as like oh we should just do what cochran wants to do he's the good coach and therefore they might really respond to him, right?
14:40Jon Bass:Because they might be like, he's actually great. We just don't like Frank and he's holding him back. In which case, it makes a lot more sense. We don't have enough information to know whether or not that is viable. So they might hate his guts as well. They might think he's rubbish. Also, he's a gooner as well. So we're in the same situation where we've got this like taint of, you know, there's all these reports about basically Frank just banging on about Arsenal and how brilliant they are. and the players just like, why are you talking about them? And, you know, I know these are small sort of stupid things that fans care about, but it always sort of sticks in the back of my mind, these sort of, you know, these tribalistic views of like, I used to support Arsenal as a kid.
15:20Jon Bass:Well, you'd probably still support them then. So I don't really like the idea of him stepping in just based on that.
15:26Jack:Can I just say quickly on that thing, you know, because a lot has been made of that, that Thomas Frank apparently sort of referenced Arsenal quite a lot and spoke about how good they were when we played them at the Emirates and stuff and it rubbed the players up the wrong way as much as like on a tribal level like you say it sort of sticks in my throat there is also that bit of me that again makes me question the players and their mentality oh yeah it's a it's a bit oh boohoo he's he's referencing the best team in the country right now and saying how you could be more like them like get over it like you're supposed to be I think like um I can't remember if he said it on the Patreon or not but like Flav was saying the other day like you keep hearing van de ven's not happy about this poro's not happy about that so and so isn't happy about this do your fucking jobs you're all paid so much fucking money like not everything is going to be perfect for you you know not every single coach not every single method of training is going to be something that you love but you are paid millions of pounds of year a year to do a job do your fucking jobs like stop with this whining stop with this this isn't all entirely to my liking get on with it you know it's and i do sort of i know i'm going a bit gammon but i do kind of buy into this idea that there is perhaps a slightly pampered culture as but and lots of people have commented on this that hotspur way has led to such a pampered culture there because it's so cushy like they get everything everything given to them whenever they want it and you know Conte didn't seem to like it very much when he was there is what I'd say and he was probably the most gammon manager we've had in a while right?
17:06Jon Bass:Yeah mate look I agree with all of that and the players, we definitely have a mentality issue with the players right like you're right they can't seem to cope with anything like any sort of issue there's always grumblings, there's always moaning I mean the players you know like Poro having a go at the fans Ficario having a go at the fans, Mickey van der Ven and having a go to fans. Just do your job. Why do you think we are doing what we're doing? If you were winning top of the league, do you think we'd be doing all this shit? No, of course not. This is subpar. It's like a lack of self-awareness.
17:37Jon Bass:They can't see the correlation between them being absolutely shite and us being annoyed about them being absolutely shite. We have given the support way over and above what they deserve, and yet they're still like, we need the fans behind us. We need you to support us. we need you to be not shit would be great um so look there's definitely issues with the players and there's definitely a mentality issue but that's something that we can't we can't do anything about it now particularly right like we're gonna have to address this i've been saying this for a long time there's a lot of players in that squad that just aren't up to it i think we know that but they shouldn't be this bad and we're gonna have to do so that's a longer term issue now in the short term like i said you just you just need to galvanize them enough to get enough points to get out of this mess and go again so look i don't know what the answer is because like i said harry rednapp is too old but that's who you need you need harry rednapp of 15 years ago that's what we need we just need an old manager who's just gonna like put put his arm around them don't worry boys like we're gonna have some fun like let's just you know siege mentality we're gonna get out this it's all gonna be all right back to basics like i'm sick of the thomas frank spreadsheet data garbled over information over intellectualizing football football is a really basic game that we've intellectualized to a point that it's almost come full circle where it's so complex that it boils down to banging it up the line i could i could i genuinely could coach them to do what he's done but he's probably got spreadsheets and data and forms and videos to show them how to play like that i could tell him how to play that just get to the fullback and ping it up the line that's what we used to play at sunday league hold it put up to the slanky let hope he holds it up and get runners off him that's not complex you you need a manager who can tell these players to play with a bit more like control and a bit more uh to motivate them to basically play in a bit more of an aggressive front foot possession based way what you'll notice if you get if you get a manager who tells these players to to play it in a better way players like gray will look way different to what you're currently seeing from them.
19:49Jon Bass:I would be looking, like if we were going to play going forward, I'd be looking basically to play three at the back and go for like by field. I'd play Pelina at the back while Romero is out, but obviously Romero can drop in there, and van der Venn as your back three. And then I'd basically play like two midfielders in the middle, which would be like Gray and Gallagher probably and then a 10 which would be Xavi Simmonds and then I'd play two strikers which would be Tao and Solanke and then I'd just play fullbacks like wingers basically which would be Spence on the right and Sosa on the left and I would just tell them to play the ball through the midfield get up and down, run around a bit, press a little bit and be aggressive in the final third.
20:34Jon Bass:They would be performing much better than they're performing now with basic instructions like that. I just I really do think it's not rocket science we just need a very sensible interim here my worry is is that there aren't obvious names right because you can't just get a Harry Redknapp I know you were talking about Klinsman like would he come and do that is that is that even who I'm talking about I don't know if those managers exist anymore it's sort of like that generation is gone from football and that's kind of what we need like we just need a back-to-basics manager who's just going to let these players play and that is my worry is this interim uh job search it seems like they're doing it now like they have sacked him quickly but now it's like now they're exploring potential avenues what why why haven't you been exploring this alongside it this is exactly like the transfer window where we've gone from like oh we might need some players well we'll have to wait until the trend january transfer window opens before we can even start looking no you can look now in parallel and it's the same with this we've sacked him and now we're looking for managers so i i don't know what they're doing mate and it does concern me already that this process is gonna one take too long and two i'm not certain that between langer and vinai they're going to get
21:55Jack:the right person when you want your spring break to feel like and your kids pool day to feel like and your hotel bed to feel like oh and room service to feel like
22:12Jon Bass:because at Hilton hospitality feels like your cabana's ready would you like fresh towels it matters where you stay book now at Hilton.com Hilton for this day
22:27Jack:I don't know if you've seen it during the rounds John but there was a video put out near the source you know I guess I would imagine it was around Christmas time from a Brentford like TikToker who was essentially doing a timeline of Brentford managers probably about let's just say 15-20 years worth of Brentford managers and there is a cookie cutter formula to every single one of them which is they get a guy in charge who has little to no managerial experience he becomes the manager of Brentford. Brentford start to improve. That manager thinks he's too big for Brentford, goes on elsewhere, fails catastrophically, yet Brentford continue to improve.
23:12Jack:And this has happened with every single one of their managers. Every single person. They even brought in, one of the managers they brought in was somebody from like the board who was a finance guy. Literally, was like a finance guy who had not ever coached or anything like that at all became Brentford manager and ended up going to Rangers and just failing so badly that he is no longer in football he left football and the guy was basically making the point that's Thomas Frank Thomas Frank came to them as an assistant coach with having been a literal PE teacher um and then is heading up Tottenham and I guess there's a couple of different sort of jump off points here number one and look we've sort of slated frank a lot but i think number one it shows because the the the most stark and i'm repeating myself but the most stark thing about thomas frank's tenure is there's not been a single thing to cling on to there hasn't been a single aspect of his tenure whatsoever that i will look back on and say at least he had that one thing if maybe things had gone a bit better for him you know if madison hadn't been injured if kieluseski had been available maybe this would happen the way i put it so um jj bull the guy that does stuff for the athletic put out our injury list and said probably a bit harsh on frank when he take this into consideration and i was just like it's really not though mate because had we more of our players available to us what i would concede is more of these ugly draws a few of them might have been wins for us and more of these ugly losses might have ended up being draws for us but we wouldn't have been good if these good players come in because there's nothing that we've seen from anything that frank has done that suggests he has any plan like you say past a sunday league one lump it upfield and hope somebody can get on the end of it and that's it time after time after time but i guess the more sort of prescient point that you introduced there and this Brentford conversation does is what are Vinay Venkateshin and Johan Lange doing if a Brentford TikToker can quite coherently break down the fact that Brentford is a well-oiled machine of which the managerial role is a tiny part of that you shouldn't really base any decisions upon the trajectory of the club you shouldn't you shouldn't your analysis of brentford shouldn't be based upon the manager and his performance is how the club performs the manager performs a tiny function of that why is it that two people who are probably paid i would imagine lang is probably close to a mil a year if not more van kiteshman will be on millions a year why is it these people who paid to know about football paid to do this stuff have said that this guy headed up a 30-man shortlist for them like it it's just it's astonishing to me it's astonishing to me that it's taken this long for them to realize that he wasn't the man for Vinod Venkateshin to sit there and babble on about Arteta and giving him a chance and all that type of crap this guy has not been fit for purpose this guy's like I'm staggered that Brentford didn't get relegated double dip relegate under this guy he's i i don't think he goes on anywhere and has a good premier league career from here from us i i think he's shockingly i think he's been shockingly terrible how are the people that are running this club like how have they not seen that how have they allowed this to
26:59Jon Bass:happen yeah well to be honest man i think i think and this is gonna go i'm gonna go full brexit here with this full full yadar opinions here but this is the the older i get the more i'm just still sort of becoming the cliche older man football fan and i don't i don't mind it to be honest but basically that the the thinking around football has become so over intellectualized and over complicated and look there's always been to a certain extent some data around football right like even to the base level of this guy scored 35 goals in netherlands maybe he could do a job in the Premier League right so there's always been a level of statistics and data and there's a there was a sort of perfect balance I would say in the sort of mid-naughties where sort of the health and fitness of players had really moved on you know most players don't drink or smoke and there was like data and analytics around the type of players and there were different tactical systems but still as a manager particularly before they really became just coaches what was such an important characteristic to all managers was man management right and the intangible soft skills it gets called now right to be able to basically motivate young men to go into battle and go into games and get the extra percentage out of those players and to do something a little bit different and the game i think has just moved into this world where that stuff has been so devalued by people who go well no the data doesn't bear that out no don't worry about that there's toxic masculinity that none of that means anything there's not no such thing as a winning mentality that doesn't mean anything it's all just numbers data this is how it needs to be these are the systems this is the way that it works it's not the way that it works right Pep Guardiola is a toxic masculine man there's no doubt about that he's a psychopath that's why he's successful it's not just that he looks at data and analytics and has systems and wants to improve he does those things as well that's why he's been successful Jurgen Klopp was a nasty piece of work he was a toxic man he was aggressive he was rude he could motivate you with fear as well as an arm around the shoulder go through a list of the greatest managers of all time in football up to the present day they are all nasty pieces of work that's what it takes at the top level of sport if you really want to be successful you have to have the edge you also have to have the charm you have to be able to convince players you have to be able to figure out psychologically which players need to be you need to be stern with and which players you need a gentle touch with and to give them the carrot and not the stick these are the things that have been confused and lost and people like Langer and Vinay don't understand it they don't get it right which is why they can look at Thomas Frank and go here's the data points here's why he's top of the list because this is how football works now and what I find really ironic about the whole situation is Vinay appointed Arteta now of all those characteristics and traits that I just spoke about that's what Arteta is he's a nasty piece of work horrible little man who knows how to get under people's skin and motivate players that is the the bit that just always gets lost when we're having these conversations and if you again if you look at some of the top clubs and top sides in the last let's say five years keep it super relevant right like Ancelotti's Real Madrid how much tactical work do you think Carlo Ancelotti's doing none nothing nothing his job is to convince those players to do what he says there'll be coaches there there'll be analysts there'll be data teams giving him broad stroke information on you know who needs to do what and where there's potential areas and maybe he sees a weakness in in a team he's not going to over complicate the conversations with players right he's going to be able to communicate in a way that's going to get them motivated to do what they need to do and that's where i think thomas frank was completely lost with us because these players they're not having it they're looking at him going like what do you mean just bang it up the line and win the jewels we saw that it was footage earlier this season when he's in the room and all right we didn't see the whole of his tactical preparation but honestly it was a flashback to playing for me playing for Weston on a Sunday it was like boys what's a big thing we got to win the jewels when the ball goes up in the air make sure we're winning the second balls make sure we're winning the flick-ons like let's contest every ball that's what you do on Sunday league that is not motivating top players and we've seen now there were loads of players and again we can go into the attitude and issue of players as individuals but it doesn't surprise me that so many of them just mocking him just because he just wasn't just wasn't the right sort of mindset for what we want and i just think the reason that vinay and lang i just don't understand it is that that part of the football landscape they just don't get it and they they're too far that way and to be fair to him for all of his faults that was one thing that levy understood actually quite well was characters and like that man management and leadership style is part of being a successful manager and i've said it before if you just take out the football side look at the managers who've been successful pochettino was successful all right without winning trophies but in terms of where he took us to and what we were trying to win and what was he you know what was he really good at he had the right characteristics to take us forward he had an edge he protected the club he wanted us to win he wanted us to look up instead of looking down he wanted us to be on the front foot teams to be scared of us he did well Ange okay it didn't end well but he won a trophy Ange didn't look backwards he didn't look down he was always looking up he was always protecting the club and wanting to promote the club as being better and bigger and not taking any shit from anyone and it those two were successful for those reasons.
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32:58Jon Bass:And as soon as we have managers like Frank, whose best and most accurate quote is, I promise you, I can guarantee you, we're going to lose games. That's just the wrong guy. It rattles me so much, Sean.
33:09Jack:It rattles me so much. And do you know at the time I really tried to play it off, it's just like, it doesn't bother me that much. I knew from the second I saw it the first time, I was like, this ain't right. I'm pretty certain. I'm pretty certain. when Ferguson first left and Moyes took over at United he said something similar I think I'm fairly certain one of his first United press conferences he said something like I'll never be able to emulate what Alex Ferguson did or something that kind of negged himself and instantly people like he's he's not gonna make it at Manchester United like you can't you can't straight away do that you have to sell people a dream you have to and yeah Tottenham Hotspur I have not been Alex Ferguson's Manchester United, don't get me wrong, but still, we're a club with big ambitions, right?
34:01Jack:We're a club with a massive stadium, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, all that type of stuff, right? All those bells and whistles. You can't come in. You can't come into your first press conference and give you one guarantee being that we're going to lose football matches, regardless of the context. I get it. You know, when I've said this before, people have said, yeah, but he's making a wider point about that he's going to have to experiment, that it's going to be a process and along the way they'll lose football matches. Just don't say that. Just don't say that bit. But he did that throughout his entire time at Spurs.
34:35Jack:He kept saying the quiet bit out loud all the time, all the time. And whatever Nesbitt says about it being a national trait or something, the guy has to take some personal responsibility and he has done that, admittedly. He's lost his job. He'll have a nice cushy payout about it, you know, for all the people saying you shouldn't ever revel in somebody losing their jobs grow up like this is this is a totally different world this is not you know like just come on um yeah i just i don't i mean i'm in just in such a strange place with all of this john because as i sort of said at the top i am i have a certain sense of relief that he's gone i am you know happy that the club are doing something to make a change to do something different but I still just worry about us, I still just feel like we're in massive trouble and you know, it's a North London derby next so we'll see it'd be nice to have a bounce in that wouldn't it
35:39Jon Bass:Yeah, I mean look, what about this let me pitch you this, let me say it's Redknapp right, it's Harry Redknapp as the figurehead, he's not the coach, he's just there as like the figurehead and they put in they keep Cochran they keep Heitinger they bring in Defoe right so or Mason right and it's like a management team Redknapp is the figurehead and he's literally there as I'm going to motivate these players like we're going to stay up this is how we're going to do it like we're going to go in I would feel more confident about that than sticking with Frank right like I genuinely would feel like I'd go into that North London and I'd be going yeah go on Harry yeah yeah go on I'm up for this this is a like jd's on the sideline like prowling the sideline like giving solanke
36:24Jack:instructions it gets me hype yeah it's me hype that is quite sad though i'm not i'm not saying like yours what i'm saying is it's quite upsetting that we're in this place is it isn't like you've got to be real like that we're talking about harry redknapp coming back it's like fucking hell is that where we are like genuinely yeah but this is and it's not just you saying it i get it i get that because i'm not sat here being like disgrace no no no not a chance because there is like when you say it like that there is that ridiculous little bit of me that's like you know what if it's to the end of the season romantic fine but then then i'm like what am i saying what am i doing like we can't have harry on that back he's about 97 you know like he's not yeah he's not
37:06Jon Bass:been in football for 20 years like nothing don't matter mate don't matter the game doesn't matter he just doesn't matter think about this way right uh thomas frank is neville chamberlain right he's just he's just sniveling little rat and he's just like oh no they're all right let him off we're gonna lose games it'll be fine and they're like right desperate times let's bring back the old war horse the old dog old winston bring him back he hasn't been around for years he's a relic he's a relic he's an old dog but he does know how to do one thing and that is motivate the country he's not going to come out and go i know dunkirk well i can guarantee you one thing we're going to lose soldiers no he's like we're going to fight him on the beaches we're going to fight him on the clifftop like he's he's motivating the players it's desperate times desperate measures harry redknapp is winston churchill we're gonna win the war harry didn't
37:55Jack:drink no so it wouldn't be any paul roger and all that like yeah that was what he had isn't it bottle of bottle of paul roger every morning wouldn't it i think yes it's a strong start 20 day in the bar with a cigar no drama the greatest britain just dear idea dear idea Yeah. Let's do some questions. We've had some questions in. And this one I actually tee up quite nicely into a bit that's been occurring on my Twitter timeline today. Andrew at Bakubicoys says, Did we build our stadium or training centre on a sacred ritual ground? Only explanation for all these injuries. Now, one thing that has been raised that I've seen kind of float around anecdotally for quite some time, that I initially sort of palmed off as like a 5G tower type thing.
38:47Jack:but it seems to be there is actually at least a body of say pseudos i don't even know if it's pseudoscience maybe there's a certain level of like science or understanding to it that basically that the retractable pitch is not good for like um what is it you call it for is it compound injuries when you're running basically it wears your joints down because because it's something to do with the glass. The grass layer is very thin, and then underneath that is essentially just concrete. People have picked out different quotes from other players that have played on the surface and say it's quite weird and different or whatever.
39:33Jack:I don't know. Some people talk about that, but basically Wilson Otterbear's out until the end of the season now. Back to your point at the top, it'd be quite nice to be able to have Mikey Moore back in the side. Now he's absolutely tearing it up for Rangers. He looks like he's beefed. He looks like a man now, basically. Perfect. Ready for the championship. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you buy any of that stuff at the training ground, like the pitch?
39:58Jon Bass:Look, I'm not saying... Why are we getting so many injuries? Yeah, I'm not saying no, because I'm sure I've told you many times, I will believe all conspiracy theories, because it's way more fun, right? Just believing in conspiracy theories is way more fun than just going, oh, no, it's probably just a coincidence. So yes, absolutely believe that could potentially be an issue. I guess my only rebuttal, and I know that statistically, if you're playing on it every game, every home game, you're going to get more interested. But there's not been like a single away player who's had a serious injury.
40:31Jon Bass:So like over all those games, surely someone is going to get injured, right? Because we play 18 games on there, but we're playing 18 teams. So one player surely is going to get injured from those teams and have a serious one. I think it's just unlucky. I do just think it's a combination of real bad luck. And maybe there is a hangover from, I know people were talking about the way we trained under Ange and the way we played under Ange and that those injuries have a knock-on effect. That one yesterday with Odebeer, that's nothing to do with a pitch. It can't be. It's just bad luck. like he just landed awkwardly it's just really unlucky and some of the other injuries that we've had have been away from home the serious ones so I think it's just one of those things of like yes you can look at it and you can see a pattern so therefore it's a potential I'm not saying that it's not the pitch like it could be but I don't know I just feel like a lot of these injuries we've just had a lot of bad luck basically
41:34Jack:What's the reverse though you know Gary Player his old quote the golfer do you ever see like I think I can't remember he hit a really good shot once and one of the comment commentator pundits said to him afterwards you're quite lucky on the whatever seventh hole or something he said yeah it's funny that the more I practice the luckier I seem to get which has always been one of those sort of quotes that's always stuck with me but Spurs seem to be the antithesis of that John from what you're saying yeah the more we play on the retractable pitch the unluckier we seem to get yeah i'm not having it i'm not i i i believe um x files is coming back actually isn't it i think so that'll be that'll be good um but yeah there's been there's been a big debate about that all uh kicking off in my mentions because i said something spare at the moment about it um some some people are even talking about like power substations and stuff
42:30Jon Bass:like yeah yeah and I don't know it does feel though like look if I had to just be cynical I would say that the one thing that people always point to is like the stadium was the worst thing that happened to us and moving there and soulless and it represents Levy and so there's an interest in people making the stadium and you know by proxy the pitch at the bad guy so like there is you know there is an interest in saying that there's something to do with this new stadium that everyone seemingly hates is causing us all these issues and if only we didn't move from the old lane then none of this would be happening so i do feel like there is a little bit of that as well
43:10Jack:um read james reed says isn't this just all too late the injury list is so extensive that the quality is not available to capitalize on a new manager bounce early diagnosis is key to successful treatment we've diagnosed the problem as the patient is taking its last breath uh do you feel that at all though john you know we've done this after we've decided to do this just after the windows closed you know yeah well this is the thing isn't
43:40Jon Bass:it like i said um after west ham when most people were like okay has to go this is it like surely he's going to go now i said then like i think this is the start for the lewis family and bin i that's the start that's the first time that they've seriously thought oh oh dear maybe there's a problem here and then obviously we go and have this great result against Dortmund and they're like oh thank god for that it's brilliant everything's great again and so I think it's like the constantness of us like pushing and booing and like making it clear like not booing the players but booing Frank and like having to relentlessly sort of remind them like no this isn't going to work um you know it's it's been our only real course to like make them understand it so yeah we've left it too late of course we have like we should we should have sacked him I mean that Chelsea game was absolutely horrific um the Arsenal game was absolutely horrendous then all the things that we're saying that Bournemouth game with the stupid cup now I know people are like oh but the cup was in there and he was given the cup right one that's a serious lack of awareness to me right you haven't even you've been given a cup you haven't even like looked at nothing you're just like that's weird to me and then people are like that's just unlucky and I'm And it just always reminds me of this quote.
44:56Jon Bass:I worked with this guy once, and he said his mate owned his own company. And whenever he was looking to hire new people, he'd get all the CVs, and he'd literally just work his way down to the middle of the pile, put his hand in, and take the whole foot top off and just bin it. And then his mate's like, why'd you do that? And he went, just don't hire unlucky people. Right? And I was like, yeah. He should have been sacked. And if people were like, we're just unlucky. Exactly. We can't have an unlucky manager. He's got to go. he's got to go so yeah it's just too it's too long we waited for this you know this point to go okay maybe you'll turn it around i think it was quite clear it wasn't going to work he wasn't the right like i've said before i won't go over again but he doesn't have the right soft skills the man management stuff he doesn't he never had that and the january transfer window was an absolute disgrace like a proper stinker for what we needed at the time to not get anything done that we actually needed for anyone is crazy.
45:56Jon Bass:And we've been told as well, like, you know, I saw a lot of people going, well, the thing is you don't want to sign. If we don't believe in Thomas Frank, we shouldn't be signing players. But we've been told for like the last two years, no, no, no, you don't sign players for the manager. You sign players for the system. Regardless of who the manager is, we're signing players for the future. What happened to that then? Because we needed players and you didn't sign any. So now we are stuck in this situation of we can't get players back from loan. we've loaned out players like Scarlett for no reason when we haven't really got striking options like that
46:26Jack:it's just such weird decision making weird
46:31Jon Bass:and so it's just left us in a really bad situation there's not much we can change and that's why I'm saying the only thing that you really have at your disposal is bringing in youth players and promoting them and basically giving them injecting that youthful energy and excitement and then basically creating a siege mentality like sort of making it clear to players who don't want to be there like that is cool you're going to get bombed so like are you into this or not because if you're not totally fine you can go and train with the kids i would i would rather have a sort of a much thinner squad with players getting bombed like i'd just bomb off moani immediately like he wouldn't play again he wouldn't get rid we're begging to leave or january get rid of us like he's taking minutes away from if a lone player
47:15Jack:as they want to do. Can you, like you were talking about earlier, a Guardiola or an Arteta, can you imagine them accepting that? They would be like, get rid of him. If he wants to go, get rid of him.
47:25Jon Bass:Gone. Absolutely gone. So that's the thing. I'd basically be doing a squad audit, one-on-one, sitting down with them going, we're in a relegation battle, are you up for this? Are you up for this? It's cool if you're not, it's fine. You don't have to hide from it, there's no judgement here. Are you up for this? And anyone who doesn't give me full commitment, I'm like, they're gone. They have to go. you're not going to lose your job
47:49Jack:you're not up for a relegation fight you're not up for a relegation fight I've done it the wrong way around
47:57Jack:Michael says less of a question more of a statement I feel that the club isn't worthy of the cockerel switch to the THFC monogram or one of those weird 1882 icons I want to disassociate this era from the rest I like that, definitive not even asking a question, he's just telling me Michael's just telling me that's how I want it so you know read it read it podcaster and I have done I like that you know it's good Tarish Brings says I was at the game last night soaked to the skin listen to the pod when you read out and went through the upcoming fixtures I could feel the anxiety rise up from the depths of my stomach my question is is there any hope go on John you're good at this because I'm the wrong person to ask right now
48:45Jon Bass:yeah cool cool series there's definite hope and this is what I said before right as soon as he went I started to feel this like there's hope now there's a chance we've given ourselves a chance from the dread of if we stay with him we're going to go down I believe that if we hadn't sacked him we were down like there's no way around it but he's gone right so this means like you get an immediate players that haven't been playing for him not having for him and again that's very problematic but that's just the way life is. They're now going to care. You bring in someone, again, I'll just use the Harry Redknapp archetype with JD and the Dream Team, right, trying to support him.
49:25Jon Bass:You get those players and give them a platform to go and express themselves. You find a really simple, you go back to basics and go, okay, this is the formation we're going to play. This is the system we're going to play. We're not going to worry about what other teams are doing. We're going to play this way every game because we're going to go out and try and win the game. That's how we're going to do it. We're going to impose ourselves on them. You give players that clear, simple instruction. You motivate them. There are ways to motivate these players. You need to make them understand how detrimental relegation is to them personally and how embarrassing it is and how much better they are than that and how you want to show them.
50:03Jon Bass:Whoever is this manager, just come out and say that to the fans. Just say, look, we know this has been dross for you. We know this has been hard. This has been horrible. Draw a line under it. I promise you, while I'm here, we're going to try and attack. We're going to try and win. That's what we're going to do. And we're going to try and win some games. And we're going to try and win some games with the flair and style that you deserve. We've got some making up to do. So we want a clean slate with the fans. We know that the previous managers have always been saying, we need the fans, we need the fans.
50:29Jon Bass:You've been there. We appreciate that. Stick with us because we're going to really bust a gut to do it. And if I see anyone not busting the gut for you and not fighting for the shirt, they won't be playing for you very much longer.
50:39Jack:John like sort of on your point because you know I know you sort of like low-key like a wrong one Deserby you having him in? I mean I do I mean it's not low-key I love a wrong one
50:51Jon Bass:but but he's just the wrong type of wrong one he's director of football at Marseille mate is that what it is? yeah get him in yeah Greenwood next summer let's get him in yeah look I just with Deserby he's the wrong type of wrong one right he's more on the sort of Conte side of the house right he's sort of too ratty and explosive and will just cause I think more aggravation than it's worth and plus I think he could actually accelerate things because again he's very much like a details you got to play this exact way this is the way that we do it you've got to do it like this this is how it's got to be done very technical very to the point now when it works it looks brilliant and that is the type of football I would like us to see us play so he's sort of nearly right but i think he's too much of a zealot he's going to be too much of a like it's my way the highway in a way that he plays remember he like he got rattled by
51:45Jack:christian stellini the most like exactly times new roman man going right yeah this is what i mean
51:50Jon Bass:he's just he's almost too emotive and this is what this is what i mean you just need a good old british manager who just knows what he's doing big sam harry redknapp like daishi I keep saying that on my streams
52:04Jack:Big Sam, I can't wait I just want to see Nathan's head spinning Big Sam would do a job
52:09Jon Bass:I'm not even joking, Big Sam we could do a lot worse than Big Sam because for exactly the reasons I'm saying this is not rocket science and one, it would be hilarious for all the reasons that I've said about the data science you're right announce Big Sam he just comes out with like a plate of curry and a pint of lager and he's like, we're going to win some games.
52:32Jack:Pint the gravy. I loved it. I loved that old soundbite of his that time, like back in the day when I think he'd just beaten Mourinho's Chelsea and I think Mourinho had stormed out of his press conference and he's like cackling. He's like, he don't like it because I out-taxed him, you know.
52:50Jon Bass:Big Sam. Big Sam for the win. I honestly, and I know it's super gammon, but I just feel it's that type. Like they're not quite right. I don't know who it is, but it's that type of... The reason that Carrick's, I think, done all right at United is because he's in that generation below them. He's in between the newer generation.
53:11Jack:He was managed by them, wouldn't he? Exactly.
53:14Jon Bass:And that's why I think it's that type. We need like... What about Warnock?
53:19Jack:You have Warnock?
53:20Jon Bass:I'd love a bit of Warnock. That'd be cruddy, wouldn't it? Big Warnock, just giving it absolute beans, staring at the camera, doing all that. this is i'd rather that i honestly would rather big sam like pardew curbs uh harry redknapp not curbs no not having curbs get curbs in curbs uh get them all in get them all in like a team a lineup of them like a managerial team the old boys pulis in there be quality wouldn't it like get them all in like avengers assemble and just be like if i was like vin i'd just go everyone's slagging you off like all the data lots slagging you off they're like calling you little mugs little slugs like go out there and show them who's boss like show them what the real men of football are all about and then you just announce it at spurs you're like our new interim manager and then they're coming out one by one you got war not coming down from the cockerel like descending to abseiling down into the ground allardyce comes out the middle of the center
54:18Jack:circle it'd just be epic did you ever hear that old story about tony pulis i think he he apparently got in a punch-up with James Beatty in the changing rooms once, but he'd just stepped out of the shower, so he just had a towel wrapped around his waist. And he's just proper da-styly, do you know what I mean?
54:36Jon Bass:Do you know what we could do? We could just basically have a guest manager for the remaining games of the season. To be fair, I wouldn't actually mind that, you know? That'd be incredible, wouldn't it?
54:46Jack:It's worked for years on, have I gotten the ECU since they binned off Angus Dayton, didn't it?
54:51Jon Bass:This is what I'm saying. Just make it a bit more fun. and like especially if you just announce it on the day like you just rock up and then you know like i said all of a sudden it's like and today's manager it's alan kirbishly and it was like fucking hell oh no and then you know you could you could do so much with that like imagine just it all goes dark before kickoff and it's just like the bell goes like the undertaker and it's wenger he just comes out and he's there as our manager there's so much fun there and it would put a smile on my face
55:27Jack:I also think it was ringing loads of people would quietly be like I'm quite interested to see what happens I wouldn't be of course not me proper Tottenham me and all that but that could be fun I'll tell you a guest manager I would have so Rose has asked would you have Emma Hayes as interim I had no idea that Emma Hayes was coise apparently Emma Hayes is Coyze AF. Oh, jeez. I thought she was like Chelsea AF. Yeah, yeah. No, no. Coyze. She was there as a fan. She was pictured as a fan. Rob White got a picture with her. So, yeah. And she's there in a space camp. How's he in? I take her, mate. I genuinely...
56:05Jack:There's another gaffer at the USA that I'd chuck a load of money at and just, do you know what I mean, give it a go. I think she has actually spoken because, you know, she has absolutely bossed the women's game for years now. So it has obviously led to people saying like, you know, you can't be happier with that little lady. Surely you want to come to the boys table now. And I think she's always been like, no, you know, I don't really want to. I'm fine doing women's. Serena Weakman also says the same. But in saying that, I would defo have a punt on MA as being Spurs manager, especially now that I know she's Koi's AF.
56:44Jack:It'd be interesting to see like how the sort of dynamics and stuff would play out. Probably a pod for another day. But like you say, lots of toxic men in a dressing room. Would they listen? I don't know.
56:56Jon Bass:But sometimes that works. Like going back to my... The matriarch. Great British leaders. Boudictea, mate. Get her in.
57:03Jack:Yeah, true. True saying. I'm not going to dig this hole any further, but I definitely have Emma Hayes, so let's take it that way.
57:13Jack:I saw another question come in just then. Where has it gone? uh oh here we go then so scooty puff junior says i asked john this one as well but he didn't get to it have you ever hated a manager before i always back every player and manager our club until they are gone but frank seriously had me hating him and hating topman within like a month of the season starting i hated conte i'll say that i i hated conte um we obviously we were brilliant for a while but the way you spoke about the club and everything much of it was bang on don't get me wrong but yeah you know it's our job it's the whole like do you know i mean it's the whole like my dad was such a knob today and then your mate says yeah your dad is a dickhead actually isn't it and he's like oh whoa hang on hang on oh it's still my dad yeah it's that type of thing isn't
58:07Jon Bass:it yeah 100 yeah no i was the same and i really wanted conte i went mental at the club when we didn't appoint him when we should have and we got Nuno and so when we got him I was like yes finally like this is makes the most sense and then yeah he was just a twat he was complete twat and that was again one of the reasons why I liked Ange because he was sort of the antidote to that he was like trying to keep things in house and you know that obviously blew up as well but I never hated Ange and he delivered us a trophy like I know there are a lot of people who absolutely hate Ange which I sort of get because the football at the end was terrible there was the ear cupping incident there was the thing about man city there were there were other things that he said that went against you know the positives that i mentioned there but i but i will always have a soft spot for him because that that day of the final and then the day of the parade are two of the two of the best days of my life like just fantastic moments and he whatever you think of how that run went delivered that for us so he'll always have a like place in my heart but like Nuno weirdly I have actually kind of a soft spot for Jose weirdly because at the time I remember being annoyed but I don't think I ever hated Jose I think I was just like this football is untenable this is so bad but he's just a brilliant character in football and yeah I never hated him I think Conte is the one he is definitely the one that I just hated him did you hate Frank?
59:35Jon Bass:because I just felt sort of indifferent towards him to me he's just like I didn't hate him no yeah he's sort of unworthy of my hate which sounds so savage but he just I just see him as like no mate you're not the guy like you're just not you're not the person he's not strong enough flavor to hate he's just like he's got a go he's never gonna work um he's just got like basically no personality either so it's very difficult to like hate an absence of personality he's just he's just vanilla it's like no one no one hates vanilla but it's not really anyone's favorite flavor either it's just sort of bland what i want is mint choc chip which is extreme and it's my favorite flavor that's what i want i love a bit of mint choc chip as well you know it's the thinking man's ice cream like people slag it off but it's the best it's the best i like if you're not fancying like the minty vibe
1:00:30Jack:as well if you're if you're in italy one of the strata cellars you know that gelato absolute vibes love it absolutely love it um there's a few sort of rando different questions but i think we've covered most of it so sorry everybody if you know i haven't read out your exact question but i do feel like we've we've covered a lot of this naturally just john i guess there's gonna i think there's gonna be loads of pods in the coming days because like tomorrow we're gonna be told towards whoever's in charge of the club, and then we're all going to do pods about that. And then the week after, we're going to be told that we're signing this player.
1:01:05Jack:Can we still sign players on free? Can we bring Raheem Sterling in on a free yet still? I don't know. Is that window still open? I think so.
1:01:12Jon Bass:I'll probably do it, mate, to be honest.
1:01:15Jack:If you gave him a short-term contract, that would have to be the big situation. We need bodies. We need bodies. We do. But, John, how are we going to sign this one off, mate? What are your main reflections on this last half of you? Think post-Bill Bowe. Think about what could have been after Bill Bowe, what the club have done, where we're at right now. How do you reflect on all of that?
1:01:42Jon Bass:Well, look, it's not great, is it? I've tried to think about this exact conversation in three things. There's what happens on the pitch, the manager and the players. there's the director of football the sort of strategy of what we're trying to do with the manager and the players and signing players and integrating youth team players and then there's the owner of the club who's responsible for the sort of two levels below and you know things to do with goodwill with the fans and all those things and i think like and i'm pretty sure i said this to you it was either the last time i was on or the time before the whole lot needs burning down like that it's it's really quite bad like they are drastically failing in all of those areas now what i would say is that those areas as you as you get closer to the pitch basically or further away from the pitch you need more time so in other words like vinai as much as the decisions he's made in the short term haven't been great he does need more time to course correct right he does need more time to go okay lang is not the guy let's move him on he needs more time to be able to do that.
1:02:48Jon Bass:Langer gets slightly less time than Vinay because he's been here for longer and we're not seeing what we need to see from a director of football. Maybe he's a good youth scout. Okay, fine. But we need to identify who's going to look after that. Then you look at the playing side, you know, Frank not worked and there's some players there that are not good enough. So there is from Bill Bell to now, there is a lot of work that still needs to be done and it remains to be seen as you go through those levels how equipped we are to be able to like course correct quickly to give a positive slant on things what i would say is like there's no point now in being pre-annoyed right and pre-upset and pre-sad about what's going to happen we wanted thomas frank to be removed from his post that has happened all right it's a step in the right direction that is a that is a positive move for this club so until we know who they're going to bring in and what they're going to do and how that's going to work this moment in time even if it's a day or two days just take some solace in the fact that the club have identified what we've seen which is there is an issue that we need to resolve and my hope for the next you know few weeks and months and years is that they start to make less and less of these mistakes and they start to make more and more positive decisions that will transform this club.
1:04:14Jon Bass:And it is, unfortunately, going to take us some time to make those bigger decisions because once we bring in a new director of football and a new manager, it's going to take some time to turn over that squad. But as we've seen many times with many other clubs, you make a couple of key signings and you get rid of a couple of bad apples and your manager can galvanize some young players and you get that mix. Things can turn super quickly. remember how bad it was when poch came in and it wasn't that long until not even before we were really good but until we we as a fan base could enjoy it again it was very quick in the grand scheme of things right it was like a season and a bit before it went from absolutely where are we going this is hopeless to oh wow this is really exciting and fun again and it can be that again it just has to be some key decisions and that is going to take us into you know hopefully next season in the Premier League.
1:05:11Jack:John, thank you very much, mate. You can listen to more of John on the Big John Bass Show, available wherever you get your podcasts, right?
1:05:19Jon Bass:Everywhere, mate, everywhere. So even on YouTube, if you want to see my big fat face, you can.
1:05:23Jack:It's not a fat face. It's a lovely chiseled... I've just been to my personal trainer face.
1:05:29Jon Bass:You say that, but someone, one of the first comments I have was just like, wow, the size of your head. and I was like yeah yes it is a big head generally but where I have my camera obviously is a lot closer than most people because of where my desk is so I'm like it does make my head look massive and then when I had Flav on he was in the right position so it made it look even bigger and I think it was the same person was like no no it really is massive in comparison to Flav's head I was like yeah perspective
1:05:57Jack:the response is John wait till you see my knob exactly
1:06:02Jon Bass:nowhere near as big thankfully much love Joe nice one mate
From the publisher
Jack is joined by Jon Bass to discuss the sacking of Thomas Frank.
We look back on his time at the club and ask the burning question: why on earth did it take the board this long to remove a man who was clearly incompetent for the role? We reflect on the damage done and the "existential spiral" the club now finds itself in.
Attention then turns to the future. We mull over potential alternative appointments, both on an interim basis to save our season, and the long-term vision required to fix the mess.
Jon also answers your listener questions, including a deep dive into whether the injuries are actually being caused by the stadium's retractable surface, and a shout for a "left-field" appointment with a little-known coysy affiliation.
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