Spurs New Era Under Thomas Frank | West Ham 0-3 Reaction with Billie T, Palhinha Debate & Sarr Shines

26:04Jack:It's funny, isn't it? Because he's, he's obviously baby faced. he's come into the like the premier league into the tottenham set up uh i think it was 19 years of age i think we signed him when he was about 17 or 18 and then loaned him back to his his parent club didn't he sort of similar thing to vizcovic we had that similar thing and i remember at the time actually when we did sign him lots of the french journos were all being like mark my words tottenham have signed one of europe's future elite midfielders and i remember we were all buzzing. We were like, who is this kid? Really, really exciting.

26:40Jack:And then, obviously, we had that sort of period where he was loaned back, and then we sort of forgot about him. And then he joined in, was in and out of the team a bit. Oh, no, because he correct me if I'm wrong, he made his debut in the San Siro, didn't he? Yeah, he did. Him and Skip played against A.T. Manan. And he was unreal, wasn't he? I don't know if it was like his full debut. I think it was first start okay yeah that's what it is yeah yeah because i thought he played a bit before that and then he um i think he then a couple of weeks afterwards that southampton game did he give up the penalty in that game um and then conte just never played him again after that which was absurd because he was like insane he i think honestly mate i i do think he's i think he's my favorite spurs player at the moment i i really do think so and i obviously i you know i listen to this I listen to his podcast every week without fail and I remember last you know the last two seasons I would say in particular he's taken a bit of flack hasn't he he's taken a bit of flack you've always thought you've to be in your credit I've always stuck by him in this podcast but he's taken a lot of flack particularly last season I think I think you could probably have to argue at the moment he's been our best player this season and it's just yeah I do think you know I'm not just crediting Thomas Frank You know, it's not saying he's terrible underhand or anything like that, but he just seems like a different player this season.

28:07I think he's given a lot more sort of responsibility in the team now. He's sort of one of our sort of main goal scorers.

28:12Jack:He really is. He's kind of made his way into that first name on the team sheet type territory, hasn't he? Because he's just, I don't know, he just brings so much to it. And he just doesn't stop running. He simply does not stop running. But he's not just like kind of one of these guys that's got legs, just give him the ball and he'll get it. you know like a Forrest Gump type like he he he uses the ball really well he's smart his sort of reading of the game be it in a in an offensive sense for us or a defensive sense the amount of interceptions he seems to make at least you know I would say in an eye test sense it looks like he's he's constantly intercepting constantly breaking up opposition play at least um i just i think like technically he's good physically he's obviously great he's got the right mentality the point i was sort of leading to in the first place is that although he's baby faced that performance in the sancero shows you that he just doesn't seem to be overwhelmed at all by any occasion i don't i don't really get the impression that he's like he's asked by it i think he's kind of one of those lads that like just backs himself yeah definitely yeah you know I think in terms of him getting flacked the past few years like I kind of get it not not because I feel like he's really given people anything to attack but I just think it's been it's been a really miserable time the past few years barring the Europa League final and thank you Ange Postacoglu for doing that for us I'll be forever indebted to you you know, as much as I criticize him, I will be forever indebted to the man for giving us that.

29:56Jack:And rightly so. And, you know, barring that though, it's been a miserable few years of false dawns of watching kind of one of the, watching basically our greatest side since what, like the eighties when we won loads of stuff, right? So our greatest side in 20, 30, 40 years, four to pieces, bit by bit, Pochettino gone. and then more and more of those players just slowly drift off into the ether, right? Watching that all fall to pieces, knowing that it won nothing. Like I say, the false dawns and managers and all this type of thing. And now just suddenly like being in a place where like it's good again, I think perhaps gives people that chance to step back a bit.

30:41Jack:And I hope it does. And just be like, you know what, actually, maybe like with Papsar, I was just a bit miserable about Spurs. and I just wanted to lash out a bit. And I saw a young player who was a rough diamond and I couldn't be bothered for it. I didn't want to sit and watch and wait for it. And don't get me wrong, I've had that with plenty of players. Like, I know I have that with plenty of players. I have had plenty of questionable opinions on James Madison in the past, for example, on Christian Romero in the past. I think you can go back and listen to ancient old, I mean, it's probably all in hieroglyphics nowadays, It's that old, but it doesn't make sense to me.

31:20Jack:Hieroglyphics is a written text. It's not spoken. But anyway, of me saying that we should have released Moussa Dembele on a free transfer. I'm not saying I'm immune from bad opinions. The only thing I would say that I've had with Pat Matassat is there's just always been something about him that I feel like, and I feel like this is one of those Yadar eye test things. You just get a sense for a player sometimes, right? Like I think we got yesterday with Xavi Simmonds, for example. I don't think it was a mind-blowing debut by any stretch of the imagination. But what I did feel is when I watched him, you're just like, class.

31:58Jack:You know, like Tim Sherwood pointing on the whiteboards in the Monday night football thing? That's me pointing at Xavi Simmonds just saying, class. You just got that feeling for him. And I've always had that feeling from Pat Matassar. And I just think it's like to what we were saying at the top of the pod, it's just exciting that Spurs are back in that place, that kind of early Pochettino place, again, dare I say it, where we have this kind of now progressive manager who feels like he's at the cutting edge of the football that is being played now. You know, he's not yesterday's man. He's not kind of one of these guys that's tasted success previously.

32:41Jack:He's one of these guys that has embraced the direction that football is taking. This lack of rigidity, pragmatic, tactical flexibility that is exemplified by the likes of Luis Enrico, by Arna Slott now. You know, hate to say it, Mikel Arteta, for example. Right. That's the direction that football is going. And we've got a guy that's doing that. Yeah, and I just feel like, going back to what we were talking about at the beginning of the part as well, Ruben Amarin just looks so unbelievably lost. I really don't think it, and I know we keep talking about last season and season four, I'm trying to avoid that, but I think the days are gone where you can just have a system and stick to it now.

33:24I think football's slowly moving away from that. I think Ruben Amarin keeps talking about how he's got this wing-back system and they don't quite have the players to fit it. He's been there for a year now. I don't think you can do that thing anymore where you play the same formation in every single game. I just think managers are just too tactically smart now and they're going to figure it out really quickly. And it happened to us. It's happened to Man United, it seems. I think you have to be sort of really varied in your approach. And I think the managers that are coming through at the moment, like your Iriones, your Glasners, your Frank, people like that, I think this tactical flexibility is the way forward, really.

33:58It's obviously sort of brought in Pep as the master of it. Obviously, you never know what kind of formation he's going to put out and what line up. But I just kind of feel like that's the way it's going, right?

34:07Jack:Yeah. And I mean, how many more windows do Manchester United need to go through before they figure out that maybe buying defenders would be a good idea, lads? Like, maybe not just buying expensive attackers every single time. It's funny because there was that whole thing, you know, and I know this window, you could do a two-hour podcast about how unhinged it was as a Spurs fan. We've been through the ring of this window. but there was that whole nature notion wasn't there that hold on I thought we were the ones that won the Europa League but yet Man United are doing this this and this they're the ones that really won and now they just look awful they look absolutely awful they just can't seem to get it right I know they spent a lot of money like they always do but this can't get it right I mean I'm just glad we're but do you know the funny thing is mate though the funny thing is as much as I say this stuff about Manchester United all the time I've then always have to remind myself that like look at what they've won over the last decade though like if we'd have won what they'd won over the last decade we'd be absolutely over the moon do you know what I mean so I think um I think Gary Neville said today they've had three top five top three three top three finishes in the last five years which blew my mind that's what that's someone said that yeah I'm sure Gary Neville said that mad I think it might have been going back to like salt there 10 I think 10 hag finish like second or third didn't he yeah three top five finishes and top no three top three finishes in the last five years are we being hang on wait i'm gonna have to i'm fact checking this now so 24 25 yeah they i mean we know they didn't finish up there 23 24 they finished eighth oh maybe maybe that might be immediately wrong well here we go 22 23 they finished third um 21 22 they finished sixth So yeah, I mean, they finished second in 2020-21 as well.

36:03And as you say, they've consistently won trophies in that.

36:05Jack:And 2019-20, they came third. Oh yeah, that might be, maybe I got the ears slightly wrong, but something like that anyway. Yeah, I mean, it is kind of wild, but it's just, it's an interesting sort of, it opens up an interesting discussion as to the way things are perceived, plus the reality, and I'm not getting all like, you know, Aldous Huxley doors to perception about it like I'm not you know trying to sort of open it up on an existential level but I guess it's just it's it's that thing isn't it where you look at your football club and you expect them to be winning the title year after year after year like Manchester United got so accustomed to that everything else kind of fades into the background a bit whereas Spurs you know we don't win anything for 17 years and we get 300 ,000 people show up to the streets of North London after we've won a Europa League.

36:58Jack:And it's really made me realise at the start of the season, like how quickly your football brain can take over. Because I keep thinking now, we're obviously second or third after four games, which obviously means absolutely nothing long term. I keep watching teams now. I'm watching Liverpool and Man City being like, are these actually that good? Are these actually that much better than us at the moment? I've kind of already done that stupid thing where I'm now thinking if we win our next, we've got Brighton next and then we've got someone else at home after that I think it might be Sunderland at home actually so if we win those two, hold on, we've now won sort of like five out of our first six, you know, we could be right in the mix it's just, you know, it's just ridiculous how quickly it all changes, isn't it?

37:41Jack:But it's, I mean, the thing is like, if I'm being real I think I still have concerns about the squad the depth, the quality in the squad, right? And I think now that we're about to play two games a week, it's going to be a real test for us. We start getting tired. We do have a lot of young players as well. Let's not forget, like, as much as we do have this, like, we can embrace the exciting dynamism that a young crop of players brings to proceedings. We also know that sometimes in crunch moments, they have learning to do. Not always the case, but sometimes the case. So I do feel like it will potentially catch up with us.

38:20Jack:and I do also think we haven't learnt that much from last season in the fact that yeah we've played really well but Romero and Van der Van have played every single game when they stop playing every single game what's going to happen then because we know that we had a massive drop off last year when they didn't so we can't deny the fact that or lose sight of the fact that they still have played every game for us and that's probably not going to happen once we start playing two games a week because they are unbelievable I would say though like from the start of the season where my sort of my hope if you like I won't say my expectation but my hope for what we might be able to achieve this year was quite meager I think I think I said if we finish in the top eight I'll be kind of happy but there's definitely that part of me that's like we can push the Champions League football this year I think I think we can we can push for the top five um if things carry on the way that they are I mean I can't I can't ever remember Spurs having a start to the season like this deep.

39:18Jack:Can you? I think the thing that's really sort of done it for me is Asterville look absolutely shocking. Newcastle, I don't think, look as good as they normally have. Teams that were traditionally rivaled us for that fifth spot. It's a bit all over the place at the moment. I think there's a real chance for us to get in there. Because who's up there? Bournemouth are up there. Bournemouth are fourth, yeah. Chelsea, annoyingly, are potentially going to be all right this year. They got pegged back by Brentford yesterday. Everton have started the season pretty well. I'm guessing the top four will be Man City, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool in some kind of order.

39:57But I think fifth is wide open. Yeah, yeah, I do. After those four, there's not really much in the mix. Certainly not at the moment anyway.

40:05Jack:I don't see why we shouldn't be pushing for that, fighting for that sort of tooth and nail. But it's exciting, mate. Look, do you know what? we're over half an hour into this pod and we do have a Champions League game coming up on Tuesday. But I also, I've got to say just quickly, Lucas Bergvold as well. I mean, like, you know, I'm getting excited about all the young players in our team and everything, but Lucas Bergvold, I mean, let's, let's just look at it through the, through the sort of prism of the goal he scored. The technique on that is absolutely astonishing. like absolutely astonishing 19 years old mate 19 and our good friend and a friend of this show and many other shows Tom Foyne said it's the best headed goal he's ever seen at Spurs score and I think it'd be hard pushed to find a better one to be honest it was just unbelievable I've seen loads of people online call it like the Van Persie World Cup role yeah yeah it was one of them not far off absolutely insane and it's also out the back of it birthed one of the most iconic Tottenham images of the past few years have you seen it of him jumping up and celebrating at the London Stadium.

41:17So good. And then I also saw after that goal was he runs to the away end and Xavi's on his left and Kudus is on his right. And I just feel like if you saw that, showed that image at the beginning of the summer transfer window and the mood was pretty low. We have got some really good footballers to get at Tottenham now, don't we? Kudus, Xavi and Bergwahl as a midfield or sort of, you know, in your attacking options. That's so much quality there now. I actually

41:43Jack:honestly I really can't believe how good Curtis is you know like I thought even yesterday they didn't get a goal or assist I thought he was really good again he's just an absolute nightmare quietly influential wasn't it really I just I really hope it certainly looks that way on paper I know you can never I always think you can't really tell until a year after but I really do think this transfer window could end up being our best in a very long time. With those four players that we've signed that immediately make the team better in Paninha, Xavi, Kudus and Mouane. Wow, that's just miles better of a window than anything we've seen before.

42:24Jack:I mean, that's potentially, I mean, I guess we'll have to see with Mouane, but that's at least three from three. Like I said, Colin Mouane, let's wait and reserve judgment on him. And I had exactly that same feeling as you. And the clearest example I've ever got of it was, I'm sure it's against West Brom. Might well be wrong on that. When Van der Vaart played for the first time at Tottenham, I was like, oh my God, this guy is unbelievable straight away. Like, you know, when they just come in on their first game, they're like, wow. I know Chavi wasn't quite as explosive as, I think Van der Vaart scored on his debut, pretty sure.

43:00But I know he wasn't quite that, like the most incredible man in the match performance we've ever seen. But you just get the impression just from watching him that this is a really quality player. just when he has the ball and stuff, he's always trying to make something happen. And then Kudus was the same when David against PSG. It's just like we've got some really good technical players now. It's just a really exciting time.

43:22Jack:Not on like a... I was going to say like on a more negative note, but I don't think it is on a more negative note because I don't really think that people were getting on his back too much. but there's obviously discussion around Mathis Tell. He was started up top, and I like that from Frank. I think it was because it was very, very clearly an example of Frank exercising some man management there. You know, he thought the lad's gone away on international duty. He scored a couple of goals. I've just left him out of the Champions League squad. Let's chuck him into like a London derby kind of thing.

44:03Jack:I've seen the main thing is I've seen some people say I don't ever want to see tell lead the line again and I do think it's it is a very difficult and sort of specialist role now you know when I look at somebody like Richie who has led the line fantastically well for Spurs this season it's because it's it's almost like the notion of like the striker if you like at the top of a system like this is sort of outdated. Like you've got freaks like Harry Kane that can do everything right. Who you can knock the ball up to. You can hold it up well. You can bring the players around him into play or just think sod it.

44:41Jack:I'm going to do it myself kind of thing. But he is like Harry Kane is literally one of the greatest footballers who's ever played the game. Right. You've got somebody like Richarlison who can do that on a sort of lesser level. Whereas Mathis Tell is kind of, you could imagine playing him up top in a game 15 years ago you could imagine somebody like Redknapp playing him up top and him actually doing a good job it didn't really feel like yesterday suited him that well um but I'm not I'm personally not giving up on Mathis Tell like I I do think there is a player in there and as we were just talking about with Pat Matassar like this guy's 20 years old.

45:23Yeah, exactly.

45:25Jack:He's clearly got a lot of talent. Is that something you feel as well? Yeah, I refuse to give up on him. I really do think there's a player there. I'm just not sure that we're using it in the correct way. And I know we've been very, very, singing Frank's praises of all of this podcast, but I do kind of think it was a strange decision to play him as a striker yesterday when, and even Frank said in his post-match interview with Miles, was he? Frank was talking about how he wanted to get loads of crosses in yesterday, which we did. And that's not really, you know, that's much more of a Charleston game, surely, than a tail game.

46:00Tail is really good around the box and stuff, isn't he? Making runs and curling one end from the edge of the box. He's not a threat in the air. So I do think that was a bit of a... I think maybe it was more of a gesture towards this, as you say, man management rather than tactical choice. Which is okay sometimes, because we still ended up winning the game. Hopefully, Terrell now feels a lot better because he did start in a win. He did all right for the third goal as well, didn't he? He was involved in that a little bit, but I do think it was a bit of a weird decision to play him as an out-and-out striker and cross with loads of balls into the box when that's just not his game at all.

46:33I'm glad he got the start. I really felt sorry for him over the last couple of weeks. Obviously, horrific what he went through at the beginning of the season. It must have been really hard to be left out of the Champions League squad as well, especially as he left Bayern Munich. one of the top three biggest clubs in the world to get more minutes. And then we dropped like that. But I think this was a nice way of sort of giving him back a bit of love because he showed us fans a lot of love in the time that he's been here. He's really connected to the fan base. He really has.

47:01Jack:He's really tried to as well. He really has, yeah. On a genuine level, I don't feel like it's kind of a nonsense level either. I think he really has tried to... He's sort of seen it as important, I feel like, on a personal level to understand what Tottenham are, to understand the fan base. And, you know, I think that goes a long way. We're often very quick as fans to moan about players not being loyal, not kind of showing like respect to the shirt and all that type of thing. And I think when you've got like a young man here who is like adapting to a new league, adapting to a new country, making new mates, all that type of thing.

47:39And also 20 years old again.

47:42Jack:I do have to repeat that. He's 20 years old. we could have like three years of Frank coaching under Tal and he'd still be really young for a striker like 23 for a striker is still insanely young like you know what I mean there's so much to come from him I think definitely not ready to give up yet and I really think he'd be stupid too because there is a world class potential in there somewhere and I really hope we can get it well Bill we're back in Champions League action during the week I can't lie you know I don't care. I mean, we got that. People keep... I'll tell you what annoys me. People keep saying Spurs got in through the back door.

48:21Jack:We won the Europa League. You're saying winning the Europa League? It's called the Champions League, isn't it? Exactly. It's more of a back door than finishing fifth. Exactly. Like, come on. It's literally only because it's us, isn't it? If it was any other team, they'd be like, oh, they should get rid of the fifth place team, but the Europa League won't. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's only because it's us. So, Villarreal, the yellow submarine. So basically, they finished, from my research, I'll say, they finished fifth last season, and they've lost several of their key players. They've lost Alex, Bainwood, Tieno, Barry, and Jeremy Pino.

49:01Jack:You know all those household names, mate. They've all left. And they've signed basically. So it seems to be that people feel like they're a work in progress, They've got new players replacing a lot of key players. They do have quality. We know sort of... Villarreal are one of those sort of teams, aren't they, where they're a weaker Champions League team. But for some... I'm going into this thinking it's only Villarreal. However, if we were meeting Villarreal in a Europa League quarter or semi-final, I'd probably be bricking it. Do you know what I mean? They're just one of those teams. I don't really know anything about them other than the fact that I don't ever really want to play them.

49:41Do you know what I mean? I've never watched a Villarreal game beyond the context of seeing them play an English gym in Europe. I just automatically think they're going to be well organised aren't they? I don't even know why it's one of those teams that have that sort of they're that severe aren't they? They're going to be tough to play against

49:56Jack:They beat if I'm correct they beat Klopp's Liverpool in the Europa League final didn't they? Yeah they knocked United out as well didn't they on penalties I think. Did they? Yeah A couple years ago in Europa League there was a game there was an insane amount of penalties I'm sure that was Villarreal they're a handy team how are you let's go through like player by player who I mean I think we can sort of say Vicario will be starting in goal we know that yeah I would imagine Coro, Romero, Van der Ven will start because obviously we're so early into it do you think there's going to be much rotation or is he going to go all out again this week I don't know Well, I think, so I can see Poro, Romero, Van der Venel starting.

50:43Jack:I do think he'll bring in a doggy. I think he'll drop Spence out and he'll put a doggy in. I can see the midfield being... I think Bentenker will start this one. Exactly, yes. Sar, Polina, Bentenker, I reckon. That's exactly what I think. And then maybe, I think Richarlison will start, Kudus will start. And then, I don't know, on the left, he might put Javi on the bench, maybe around the left. You know, it wouldn't surprise me. I don't think he'll give Mwani his debut just because Mwani's not played any games this season yet. I can see... I think maybe Xavi on the left. Yeah, I think he'll start Xavi on the left.

51:14Jack:It'll be Benton Cohen for Bergvall, Udogian for Spence. And that'll probably be it, I reckon. Oh, Richarlison as well up for Tell. Yeah, that's what I think as well. It'll definitely be Richie. I think in some of the Champions League games, we'll probably see a back five and Dan Soll will come in. But I think Villarreal at home, this is probably a game that we have to win, really. I think he'll go 4-3-3 again, yeah. I can, between you and me, Bill, I can see us going deep in the Champions League. I'm just saying. I kind of get that weird feeling as well. Yeah, yeah. I don't know why. I just feel like, you know, man for man, tactically, there's a lot of teams that would be a problem for.

51:55I think, you know, that PSG game really sold it to me.

51:58Jack:It was mental, wasn't it? It was like, we were really good against PSG. Like, really good. and what I hope I don't think this will happen with Frank because I feel like this is the first time he's ever played in the Champions League and he'll see it as like the biggest thing in his career so far that's ever happened to him he's never played a game in Europe let alone in the Champions League so I think he'll be quietly looking at this and be like this is my chance to really up myself what I hope though is that we don't get complacent because we've got a really favourable draw I remember when we had that group in Pochettino and we had Monaco, PSV and someone else terrible I can't remember who.

52:34And we didn't even get out of the group. And then we had Real Madrid the next week. I feel like Tottenham sometimes in Europe were better against the big teams, the big-themed teams. I hope we just don't have that complacency about us, but I don't think Frank will be like that.

52:48Jack:I've got to say, mate, I don't really get why people complain about this new format. I love it. I think it's way better. I think it's miles better. I really, really do. I don't like the thing of playing a team twice. I don't like that for a start. I'd much rather just play seven different teams. I think that's brilliant. Yeah, for me, it just makes it so much more exciting as well. Definitely. I was thinking about this because people say, no, it throws up too many dead rubbers. It's like, what? The old group stages didn't throw up dead rubbers. Are you having a laugh? Yeah, you just win your first two group games and then it becomes irrelevant after that.

53:22PSG finished in the bottom half at the beginning of this one, didn't they? Yeah, yeah, yeah. They went up to win it, obviously. I think I really like it. I think... famous last words, but I think we've got a really good chance of getting top eight with our really... We couldn't have asked for a much better draw, to be honest. If we finish top of the group stage table,

53:43Jack:should we just stop the count? Yeah. That's it. Stop the count. Give it as... We'd be very asked to finish top of the league format and then get knocked out first immediately, get knocked out. My worry about the Vila Real match there, mate, is as usual with Tottenham, There's a lot of narrative at stake here, isn't there? I think they've got Pepe, who plays for Arsenal. They've got an absolutely horrendous midfielder that I don't even want to name, you know, Simon from Arsenal in the summer. They've got Juan Foyf. They've got Solomon on loan, who I think can play against us. There's just a lot of chance for some narrative all over the shop there, isn't there?

54:20Jack:Yeah, that will be... God, that is a team of hot takes, isn't it? To be fair. It's like the Hot Takes Avengers, isn't it?

54:34Jack:yeah there is uh if the if the if anyone from the athletic is listening lads there's uh there's a think piece for for behind the paywall um i think they've just sold um i think i think they've sold dan dreamer that one he would have been almost certain to score against 100 we're gonna see him wheeling away in the 97th minute doing that snake arm thing you think he did that thing where he doesn't celebrate because he played for us for like three games yeah yeah yeah yeah definitely respect yeah i mean maximum respect for someone poor didn't celebrate against man see it's like you didn't make an appearance yeah you're having a laugh mate like they signed you and sent you straight out to a feeder club like come on like um if anything you should be celebrating more are you um i guess sort of we're talking about going deep in the champions league and everything like that mate like do you is it something you want us to prioritize or do you Let's take it away from you.

55:29Jack:Do you think Frank will prioritise it? Do you think we will throw the League Cup? Or do you feel like we are in it to win it in every single competition? Because I sort of get that vibe from Frank a bit. I get the vibe that he wants to go all out on every front. Yeah, I think so. And I think it's weird that after last season, obviously we actually finally won a trophy. It would probably be a season where we actually could probably been off the league cup for once and then you know we don't have to be so desperate about everything that we do this time because now that that 17 year itch is gone so it would be a good season where we can probably think actually we didn't probably maybe we don't need to win every single you know we don't have to have that anxiety going over for every single cup game but um i i just kind of feel like and you know particularly when we weren't in it for a while and particularly where it won't you know it's going to be quite difficult to get back in this season i feel like champions league is just like the be all and end all isn't it it just feels like So it's just what you want to be doing, isn't it?

56:27It's what you want to be playing. And I think if we have a good run, maybe get to the last eight or something like that, I think it really sort of sets you up in summer to go and sign really good players. Because people probably take notice of Tottenham again. I just feel like it has such awe about the whole tournament. And as a fan base, we've experienced it ourselves twice in the last few years, like insane European runs. It's just, there's nothing better for me. That's like the pinnacle. I'd much rather do that than sort of middle of round, you know, fifth sixth in the league you know i think champions league is the pinnacle for us i was i

57:00Jack:was thinking because whenever we're in the champions league just like a bit of a neke i always tend to like start having the champions league extended theme tune into my listening rotation just if i'm like if i'm getting my 10 000 steps in as i try to do most days like i'm i will have that sort of playing at one point in it i mean i saw i saw a tiktok right of the of he was like a teacher he was playing the champions league theme tune and he was like explaining the lyrics it's actually really really stupidly simple i've never really stopped it's basically just saying we are the champions in three different languages yeah yeah yeah which i've never actually noticed before it's like in english french and german or something like that it's like the meister yeah the best and the grandest it keeps isn't it um then the champions i've never actually stopped to actually process that for a second it's just so stupid when you think about it he's uh mate he's class but the feeling of when I think about like Bilbao and I think about how incredible that was then I think winning the Champions League must it must like genuinely be like a thousand times that the thought of the thought of winning the Champions League and especially if we do it before they do it will be like they'll never be able to take that away from us I wouldn't even care I mean I would care don't get me wrong but like what I'm saying is it would definitely less than a blow.

58:22Jack:If we won the Champions League once and they went on to win it like two or three times kind of thing, knowing that we'd done it first, that we'd seen Tottenham Oxford lift that up before those stinking cretins down the road, it would be glory upon glory. It would be life completed. We were so close to completing football forever. Now that we've sort of had a lesser version of the Europa League, I know that's probably not true. So I always used to think to myself, if we'd have won that game against Liverpool, I'd be happy forever. But the reality is, as soon as the next season starts, you're like, oh God, I'm back to square one kind of thing.

59:00I don't think that actually would have played out, but it would certainly feel like we've completed football.

59:06Jack:I sort of feel like, in a way, this is why I think the Pochettino 2019 run was so hard to reconcile. Because I feel like, and I'm pretty sure he felt like, this club was like destined to win the Champions League just because of the way we are like the way we are the way we talk about ourselves the glory the game is about glory all that type of thing it's like that is the pinnacle of football and Bill Nick came so close back in the day obviously we got stopped by Benfica um and I just I don't know I just feel like I always feel like a lot of what Liverpool say about themselves is actually us. I feel like we are...

59:50I've always thought about Liverpool. When they lost that final, I think the difference between the two clubs summarised, and I do think this might change now, hopefully it's a completely new era for the club, but when Liverpool lost that final to Real Madrid, every single... Jurgen Klopp literally said on that same day, it's all right because we'll be here again next season and we'll do it then. and their fans and players all said the same thing and they actually genuinely believed it. I feel like when we lost to Liverpool, Tottenham fans were like, wow, that's the last time that's ever going to happen to us ever again.

1:00:19I think I've actually said that on several podcasts. We've never been in a Champions League final for the rest of my life.

1:00:24Jack:Yeah, which is probably a bit true, isn't it? I did see some, you know, we're talking about the prestige of the Champions League. I saw someone tweet something like, oh my God, can you imagine how awful Newcastle fans must feel at the moment? They've just, you know, they've lost Isaac. they had a terrible window and then a Newcastle fan quoted it being like mate, we're playing Barcelona at home on Wednesday I feel fucking amazing it is different than Champions League isn't it? it's just what you want as a football fan absolutely different it's just, it's the barring like the World Cup which I'm pretty sure we're all unanimously agreed upon is the greatest spectacle of football Champions League in terms of like day in day out, just nothing compares, like the Premier League is class I really hammered home this summer when they tried that horrendous competition to sort of try and elevate it above the Champions League.

1:01:15Disgusting. It was nowhere near. Everything about it was so fake and plastic that this competition's got so much heritage. This is nothing like it. It is the absolute pinnacle. I'm really excited to be back in it. Oh, mate.

1:01:30Jack:I can't. I love it. I'm piped now, Bill. I'm buzzing again now. I love the Champions League. I know, you know, the scene music I actually have a hot take that I think the Europa League theme tune is a better song but the prestige of the Champions League theme you know, it just hits different though, doesn't it? I'm not having it, Bill I don't want to disagree with you, mate I don't want to fall out of you, but I'm not having that that big star ball in the centre circle hearing all the it's just nothing nothing chills

1:02:08Jack:I often send Tom Foynes that just as a voice note. I just send it out of the blue. He'll be like, cheers, mate. I just listened to that at work. But it serves you right. Look, you can see the sound waves, Tom. You can see what it is. But Bill, I'm pumped. I hope you are. It's good. It's good to be Spurs right now. Yeah, we had a little blip against Bournemouth, but who cares? We've started the season flying. We're in the Champions League. We've got loads of well, good young players. It's all good, isn't it, mate? It's all good. Yeah, and you know how I know that it's good? It's because, like, and I had a small example in the Bournemouth where, you know, when you just kind of shut yourself out from all Tottenham media, I know it's going good because, like, I'm just, like, sat there refreshing Apple waiting for the Royal To Roost reaction matches to drop.

1:02:56I love, you know, I love those after a win. I listen to them after a loss as well, but generally when Tottenham lose, I have a blackout of all podcasts. It just ruins your whole entire week, doesn't it?

1:03:06Jack:You're definitely not alone in that, Bill, I would say. Yeah, it's just because you're just kind of like, I don't want to compound that. Unless it's like a contentious game or something, you want to kind of learn a bit more like, why did we lose that? What are other people feeling about that? Because I feel quite annoyed about that one, whatever. And I have a really long commute to work at the moment. and if we lose a game and I've got no Tottenham podcast to listen to, I'm just driving in silence, it's awful so now this week at least I've got my whole week planned out of like rule the roost etc Just silent, staring into the middle distance Well I'm glad you are an avowed listener Bill, thank you very much mate I appreciate it, always a pleasure to be on this one and I appreciate you giving me your time this evening, look you're appearing on a number a podcast lately.

1:03:58Jack:I've seen you doing a few different little Twitter, not little, that sounds very rude actually. Yeah, those little Twitter streams that you do. You do some Twitter streams and stuff. Give us, where can we watch you? Who should we be looking out for in terms of like pods and streams? I just want to shout out Hometown Glory, obviously always. Last Word on Spurs is another regular and Dr. Tottenham podcast. And a new one that I've really enjoyed doing lately is the Irish Irish Hotspur podcast to an Irish guy and American guy. Really worth checking out. Really good stuff over there. So I'll give them a shout because I know there's a new one that I've sort of gone into a bit recently.

1:04:37But yes, there's been a lot to talk about over the last summer. It's been an absolutely insane couple of months. And I'm glad now. I went on with the Irish one on Thursday. I said to the guys, I'm just really looking forward to being able to talk about a football match again rather than like a transfer or like the operational systems of how Tottenham are around. It's just really good to talk about a football game again.

1:05:01Jack:Love it. I mean, you must be the same. The amount of content that has been sort of, it's just been overwhelming this summer. There's been so much narrative going on. It's just, it's good to be able to just sit here and talk about a football game again. It has been. Yeah, exactly. That's it. Like now, like it's just, it's like it's past just new, you know, no Daniel Levy, none of the same old conversation. remember when he got south nelson and sahari remember and he didn't back pochettie like it's done whatever it's in the past did you and i know we're basically wrapping this up but just really quickly because it was on my mind did you think it was a bit weird yesterday when they kept panning over to the him not being there it just feels really strange it's kind of it's it's a sort of like it's just like it's just doesn't feel real at the moment i was like it's just it's really strange no and it like i say that was the sort of thing where i was really i mean it was obviously it was very intentional right that that viv was there i don't know if she's going to be there week in week although from what i understand she she has always been there week in week out um alongside uh son-in-law dude looks quite impressive doesn't he looks like a yeah we got aura as the as the twitter would say definitely exactly yeah and it suddenly seemed like langer was uh trying to flex a bit as well didn't it you know when they pan over to levy and donna cullen like everyone's looking so miserable and like we're like four nil down when they pan over to Daniel Levy.

1:06:22Just that. Good that that era is behind.

1:06:24Jack:Yeah, just always seeing him just like looking. The one time it got... They only ever pan to him when we're losing, don't they? Yeah. Like celebrating a goal or anything. And when everyone was singing like, yeah, Daniel Levy, get out of our club and his wife patted him on the leg, just gave him that little pat. I did feel for him then. I've got to say, I did. I don't think I've ever seen like a Sky Sports reaction replay of like Spurs scoring and panning to Daniel Levy and him celebrating the goal. like they only have a show where we're like 4-0 down. It's just fun. The narrative of it was so intense.

1:06:53Jack:Yeah, but you sort of wonder, does he celebrate or not? Do people in those sort of circles try to be... I'm surprised we've never had that over the years, you know, the Levy Cam. Be more proper. Yeah, Levy Cam from the... Maybe we'll get Viv Cam from the content team. James Madison can maybe get her on his blog, actually. That's it. That would be Vinaya's next big step, wasn't it? because he's so on the fan engagement. I think you've just got to go. You've got to go on Maddo's vlog. Sorry, I know we keep talking about him and wrapping up, but he's in for a fine, isn't he? Maddo's in his tweet.

1:07:31Jack:Oh, yeah, he did, didn't he? He basically said the referees are useless, didn't they? Yeah, it's like good luck banning me at the moment because I'm out for about a year. Is that what he said? No, that's what it feels like. That's what it felt like. You can't ban me because I'm injured for a year. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, he, I, it's funny, man. I've had such an about turn on him. Like I've had, I had such a hardened stance towards that. He's my, he's my star for you. He's like my version of that. Yeah. I watched his vlog thing and I thought, you know what, actually, he's a good guy. Like he's a, he's a good guy and he really cares.

1:08:05And he has got like, he's going to be, he's got a football pundit all over him. Big time, big time.

1:08:10Jack:and he'll be class as well because he's already really good when he does his punditry. I think first time Tottenham are playing a Monday night this season, he'll definitely be in the studio. Yeah, if they let him. I mean, we've had that a few bits down the years, haven't we? There's been a few players from teams. I think Townsend, didn't he? He's done a bit of punditry when he was at Palace, I want to say. But anyway, yeah, let's wrap this one up, Bill. it's been a pleasure I really do appreciate the time and up the spurs basically up the spurs

1:08:55Tee off

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