Spurs Win Another Trophy - Paul O Keefe (Q&A)

26:50Jack:Bad injury record as well. Yeah, he's not been the luckiest with injury this season. So, yeah, I think the sort of stars align in a way for Spurs to keep him this summer. We did, I mean, there was a lot of talk last year, wasn't there, that we did try to offer him a contract and he wasn't interested in it. Or is that, do you know anything about that? Yeah, I mean, once you get to year three remaining, that's when you need to do a renewal and that's when you sort of find out really what the player's intent is long-term. Because if they're renewing at three years, you can skip them back up to four or five, and that's keeping the walls from the door.

27:28Once you get to three years, they won't renew, drop into two, you know there's a problem here. Why is this guy not going to renew and let his contract drop to two? And then he'd potentially drop to one. That's when you know you've got a problem. But now, I think, you know, he's going to have to assess his options with that two years remaining, because no one's going to come in this summer, it seems. You know, does he think actually, I need a bit of long-term security, so I'll sign a new deal? Because ultimately, they don't look at it like us as fans. They've got to look at what's going to be their standard of living when they're retiring four or five or six years' time.

28:16So it's a crucial point in his career now. list, the two-year window is really pivotal for any player.

28:27Jack:It's an interesting one for him, isn't it? Because on one side of me, you know, we've just seen the article, I think it's in the Telegraph today, they were talking about the fact that Spurs can't splash the cash as much as they want to because we've got players that we can't sell and I'd imagine Richarlison's high up on that list. And then you sort of look at somebody like Romero and for the reasons that we discussed there like he he is getting on a bit his injury records are not the best um should we should we if somebody like an Atleti comes in and says here's 60 million euros it's not quite what you want but yeah 60 million euros he is an aging player yeah he is in his peak years but you've got Danso coming through you've got that's coming through like maybe you you take this new managerial appointment this new era if you like as a chance to start afresh and sell him but then obviously you default back to well no because it's not good to lose you know if if we we've lost Kane we've lost Lloris yeah Son I mean we can talk about this I'm guessing is probably gonna go this summer yeah um and then losing Romero as well.

29:45Jack:That's four big, big personalities in the space of two years, two, three years that have gone from the team. And not to mention the fact he is when, and I've, don't worry, I've bitched and moaned about Romero, but when he's at his best, you know, he's an incredible player. Yeah, he's a different level. Yeah, he's a different level. And it's just a case of keeping him fit. And I think, like you say, that's what's probably putting off the suit as slightly investing that. Not that they wouldn't want Romero. Every club would go, you know, if you can have Christian Romero in your squad, of course you're going to take him.

30:22Absolutely. He's a world-class footballer. But are you going to invest£70 million in him as a fee and then another£25 million as a wage over a five-year contract? And then at the end of that five years, he's 33 years old and the legs are gone. And, you know, in football terms, you've only got to lose a quarter of a yard of pace and that's it, you're cooked. I mean, this is what Sonny's finding out. So for clubs like, and particularly with this new sort of way that football is viewed from the PSR perspective and the turnover's got to be, you can only spend X amount. Cristiano Romero this summer is a£100 million investment.

31:07You're only bringing onto the table or two or three clubs that can do that, you know, or maybe, yeah, three or four, but, and if they're not coming to the table and they're not considering it, then, you know, it, it, it's, it's a, it's a no, no brainer that he stays at Tottenham. And maybe, maybe, you know, like you say, maybe there's an opportunity for Tottenham to sort of, for once, but they're sort of now they're colourless to the mask and go, here's a brand new contract. I think the issue is not whether you would sell the player. It's how he responds to you offering a deal. And then you know his intent.

31:46If he says, and I'm not signing, he's clearly going to run down his two years. Then you've got a decision to make. How much are you prepared to cut and how much are you prepared to sort of take the hit in order for the on-pitch performance? And that's obviously ultimately for the clubs to decide themselves. But yeah, I think he stays this summer, to be honest. I just don't see that many clubs can come to the table and offer him and the club the sufficient funds to sort of get it over the line.

32:19Jack:It feels like at the moment it's sort of the worst kept secret that Sonny will be going. Seems like LAFC, it just feels like one of those deals that sort of the noises you're hearing about it are just, yeah, that's going to happen. do you know much about this mate because i'm hearing sort of you know obviously there's the talk that we've held on to him for this pre-season tour and he's not particularly happy about that sort of being used as a pawn for marketing and everything like that i'd hate to sort of end our time with him on a on a sort of negative note really um it's a shame but it does you know there's a part of me you know for me it's like Sonny can do what he wants to and if he wanted to stay for another year I think fair enough I'm sure he could still be a value off the bench and everything like that but it does feel like it's come to an end is that mean does that seem to be the case as far as you're aware yeah you know if he'd have asked me this before say that or during the group stages of the Europa League that Sonny would leave at the end of the season I'd be like absolutely no chance no way why would they do that yeah I think once you sort of take a step back and you look at the sort of last two months of the season where they won a trophy and finally the guy got something for as a reward for 10-11 years you know unbelievable loyal service there's opportunities that he could have walked away and thought do you know what fuck this shit I'm always the last man standing me and Ben Davis you know what I mean

34:01we've been through God knows how many managers we've been through God knows how many cycles and I've put up numbers serious numbers every single season you know he had every right to walk so many times or stop playing up anyway but last season was the first season where it was noticeable the drop off in performance and it was and I really don't want to feel this way about Sonny. You know, this is Sonny. Love him. We actually adore the guy. But you can just tell he's lost a yard. And that, at Premier League level, is a killer. And that sort of signals a demise. But now Spurs have won that trophy.

34:46They've had that outpouring of recognition for Sonny and the alike. And he can sit back and go, actually, now I've done... It's been worthwhile. I've got something from it. And the club, I think the club are very much the actor that, look, you know, we're happy to sort of do whatever you want with him, with him reason, to be fair, because he's earned that sort of right. And yes, there are contractual financial penalties if he doesn't appear on this tour. I mean, that's just part of the deal. I mean, you know. So, but the club aren't holding a gun to his head saying, you can't leave until this tour is complete, blah, blah, blah.

35:28But it's true that there's financial implications if he didn't appear on the tour, which that's just part and parcel of the modern game. If you want to get premium commercial deals, they're not going to want your sort of under-ratings rocking up. That's just part of the game. But yeah, I think that after the tour's finished and the dust is settled, they'll be quite happy to sort of say we're happy to negotiate with any club for you because I think that he's earned that right and I don't think Tottenham would take that right away from him. I don't think they're forcing him out of the door either.

36:07So, yeah, I think that will be a mutual appreciation of the circumstances they both find themselves in.

36:14Jack:It'd be a funny one. The way you were talking about it there, the kind of the realisation, that uncomfortable realisation that a player just isn't quite what they were. I remember it like with Ledley, you know, who had fought on for so many years, you know, obviously he's well noted, like injury struggles and is, you know, not training on grass and all that type of thing. And we'd all said for years, like, how does he do it? How is he still so brilliant? And then I just remember that once there was one game in particular, a game against Norwich City, I think it was. And I can't remember who it was.

36:49Jack:Norwich used to have that big, like, shithouse striker and he was just he was giving ledley like a horrible afternoon and you could just it was just uncomfortable to watch do you know i mean i remember thinking god this is it he's getting to the end of the road now it's it's finally caught up with him and he does feel that way with sonny a bit but at the same time like i'm i'm still of that you know i know a lot of people are very like it's time to say goodbye so let's just get rid of him and get the wages off the book and then you gotta have a bit more you've got to have a bit more heart than that this is one of the club's greatest ever players.

37:23Jack:Undoubtedly. He could have dropped Spurs like a stone many, many times. He's a humble guy, but he's been such a loyal servant to the club. Never kicks off. People talk about the commercial revenue he generates. Obviously, that's an element. To be fair, his team around him have got very shrewd in the last three or four years. So most of the stuff that he does, they've tied it up themselves where he gets that. It's nothing to do with the club, to be fair. So all these deals that you see, that's his people that have arranged them for him. So he does his own image rights and all that sort of stuff now.

38:11So he's been very clever over the last four or five years. And he's earned that right as well. He's built that reputation at Tottenham. and then obviously there's very clever people that he's involved with that sort of do the marketing for him. And as much as it does, obviously, give Tottenham not necessarily revenue, but it gives them a bigger, wider fan base to appeal to more people worldwide. But commercially, it's not as rich as people believe, I think.

38:44Jack:I'll move on to some of the questions, I think this will be quite a good opportunity here to segue into one in, Paul. I had a question from Michael at Dire Spotless Bow. He's basically asking, Harry Kane's lack of a birthday message from the club is really strange. Do you know what's going on with that drama between us and him? I mean, it's like raking over our wounds, isn't it, really, to be fair? you know publicly I'm sure both parties will say the right things and all that sort of stuff but you can at the time it was a raw situation and yeah I think a few people fell out over it behind the scenes sort of the way that Spurs sort of went cold shoulder on him and you know all of a sudden from never going to sell you to you know you can go come and clear your locker sort of thing.

39:44I think he felt that he was sort of poorly treated behind the scenes in a sort of respectful way when the actual deal was going to materialise. I think that's probably the best way to leave that, to be honest.

40:00Jack:There's some talk at the moment that you might actually come back to the United after him this summer. I'll come back to England, potentially. I don't know about this summer, but potentially come back to England. I presume that his house is now finished and built in Wentworth, where he bought pretty much half the course. So, yeah, I presume that he's got that nest here to come back to. And I'm sure he does return to the Premier League. It just won't be a tournament. No, it's a shame. I don't know. It's a funny relationship, that one, for a player that's given us such an incredible amount of memories.

40:38Jack:And he's obviously our record goal scorer now. overtaking Greaves that it sort of feels like there's no love lost there and I don't even think it's just Spurs fans being a bit bitter because he left us and he went to you know went to on to Bayern because people ultimately got over Gareth Bale going and they all pushed him well but it feels like the relationship between Spurs and Kane is a bit is a bit different um and you know I think a lot of people hold Kane up as being like really frosty and not really caring about Spurs and And I don't give him a total pass to that. But I do also think people perhaps don't give enough credit for the fact that people just have different personalities, right?

41:19Jack:And just because he doesn't gush over Spurs doesn't mean that he doesn't have good feelings and good memories about the place. And I think as well, I think with Kane, that one, no transfer will ever hurt as much as Harry Kane. because ultimately he was the best nine in the world. The story of coming from the youth, coming through the ranks, you know, to going out on several loans to then coming back and everyone going, I mean, who is this guy? Like, where has he come from? You know, that story, I've not seen it at any club in football. I've never seen a trajectory like that and that sort of. So with the bitterness towards him, I think it's like we're all jilted lovers almost.

42:14And there's some people who react really badly to it and will always be anti now. Oh, he's fucking, yeah, his legs are gone and all the rest of it. And I think everyone deep down is just hurt by it. And we sort of willed for him to stay and finish his entire career at the club. but I think that the negativity towards him now and the stat pattern and all the rest of it is purely because of how much it hurt. And that one, we can't deny that. That's the biggest sort of dagger that we've had in terms of a player leaving a football club. Certainly in my lifetime of supporting Tottenham, nothing hurt more than Harry leaving because it should never have come to that.

43:00Jack:no it's and it's it's the fact he never won anything with us as well is we had the greatest center fours in the game he just fell in our lap yeah and he he cost you nothing he literally cost you nothing the day he said you know i want to leave you should have said look write your own fucking contract yeah because he's worth that for the story the whole england cap he's the you've You've got a guy who's come through your youth ranks who went on fucking loads of Millwall and Leicester and all these dead-ass places. Norwich, God knows what else. He's come back and he's the Premier League, one of the all-time top scorers.

43:43He's your all-time top goal scorer. What are you doing? Offering the fucking keys.

43:51Jack:Give him the lot. He's bigger than you. You know what I mean? He is the England captain. and record yeah he is a record goal scorer as well yeah so and he fell in your lap yeah do you know what I mean so and if yeah that's that's where I think a lot of resentment towards Enoch is that fact where we did not build around that side that Pochettino created you know when Harry was at his peak Christian I mean that team you name that team like Hugo Kyle Van Van Vertonghen Toby you know Ericsson even players like Waniama who were unbelievable you know mate and we just sort of went we got the horse to water and didn't drink you know and that that is Daniel Levy's biggest ever mistake 100 % 100 % it's the one I always find it hardest to look past with him because yeah It's just, there was a certain, to me, there was a certain level of arrogance about it all.

45:01Jack:But like, to not, even an arrogance or a naivety to not realise quite what we had there and how, you know, we're talking about, and I'm not saying this in like a self sort of, whatever it is, self -flagellating way. but we're talking about Tottenham Hotspur genuinely being a couple of smart signings and big signings away from being a Premier League winner, maybe a Champions League winner, which is unheard of. Absolutely. Let it go. Just let it go. And everyone in the club, in terms of the playing squad and the manager, they were in that moment together wholeheartedly. I mean, Pochettino will never get over Tottenham, I don't think.

45:44He's never gotten over us, has he? No, no, no. I don't think he ever will. And every sort of job after, I think he just lives with regret from sort of waking up every day because of that. But he lives with the regret that they were so close to achieving so much. And that's where the ownership failed. That's their biggest crime for me.

46:09Jack:The fact that he was even, and I know people were rightly quite angry about him going to Chelsea, but the fact that even when he was the Chelsea manager, basically talking about his love and affection for tottenham you know it's yeah that was never gonna last was it you know yeah it's just in him i don't i don't think he yeah you can't get that out you know it's like he's got a new bird but he can't stop talking about the ex and and that just because i don't think he got over it so that that's purely why that that's sort of happening i don't think like i say i don't think he'll ever go over it um but yeah now he's he's out there crying with the US's and you know something oh that's what something happened we made him emotionally unstable yeah and now Donald Trump's his boss so

46:59Nathan

46:59Jack:at Nathan 2 underscore 45 says why does it take so long to get signings through the door I think because we just know too much nowadays I think in football I mean, I work on a much, much lower scale, right? So not ever putting a deal together for a multi-million pound football at Tottenham. But, you know, even those can just go on for months and the manager's not sure, then they come back, you know, well, you know, we have other options, we're considering them all and indecision. And, you know, then they can't get the numbers right. So then you start dealing with the chairman and everything's agreed on a footballing scale, but then the chairman's trying to knock off this amount here, that amount there.

47:49So I think that because of the digital age we live in now, we hear about bills or potential bills so early that by the time the natural cycle progresses, we've convinced ourselves that we were going to sign that player. Now, Spurs will identify like 100 players, you know, but the minute we put out there on X and I'm obviously partly responsible as well that there's interest in X amount of X player and it doesn't happen we're like, well, you wanted this why didn't we do this, why didn't we do that and it was just a short list of a manager's gone right, I want a left back in the age bracket of 20 to 24 he's got to have this attribute and that attribute a short list has been drawn up agents start calling around saying oh this player Spurs are interested in my player obviously it gets out into the media we all know what's going on or think we do and it's just that it's taking no longer now than it would have done 10-15 years ago but it's just that we know every inkling or every part of the negotiation process and the links I don't think they necessarily dragged their feet all the time.

49:08I'm not saying that they don't because they do with certain deals but in football I spoke to my boss who's obviously very well connected in the world of football and been an agent and was an agent for a very long time and he said to me first day I started working for him the best negotiation in football is silence if you go quiet that's the best negotiation so that's what takes time as well people say yeah we're issuing your player they're offering the terms and they go back to them and then they just blank them for weeks and months and it's one of the smartest negotiation tools is silence because then you've got people wondering what you're going to do what you're moving and getting them to sort of force the situation But Tottenham operate, I mean, we all know how Spurs operate.

50:10Obviously, they make sure that the player through their inter-reader is going to be onside with coming to the club before they make a move on the actual club because it gives you a stronger bargaining hand at the end of the day. Obviously, it's backfired spectacularly on Gibbs-White, but 99 % of the time it'll work. I'll come to you and I'll say, look, I can get you into Spurs. They're prepared to do this. They're prepared to offer you that. What do you think? Oh, yeah, yeah, get it done, get it done. So once that player's onside, Daniel Levy's hand then going to the chairman of that club. So, look, the lad wants to come to us, you know.

50:50Let's talk seriously about negotiating a proper price. And then it's all about ego. Football's all about ego. is having to win. Daniel Levy has to win every negotiation or think that he has. And that obviously, that can take time. He's never going to go around like a Chelsea owner and just go, do you know what? You asked for 50, but actually it's 60. Let's just get it done. And it's done overnight. You know, he doesn't operate like that because that's just not in his nature or Enix's philosophy. because ultimately, you know, EANIC are the English national investment company. So they're not going to be throwing money around.

51:32They're looking at their whole business mantra is domain money. And you as a client wouldn't go to EANIC and go, yeah, there's my money, just fritter it away. You'd expect a return on it. And that's how they operate. So I just think it's that we know so much more so much earlier these days, to be honest with you.

51:54Jack:I mean, you've as good as answered the next one with that one, Paul. But there's a question from Mush at The Nugget 375 who says, where does the power really lie in our recruitment department? And I'm guessing that's just Daniel Levy ultimately, is it? Yeah, ultimately, at the end of the day, it goes to the top table. No matter what the people do below Daniel, it goes to his table and it's up to him then to get the deal over. That's it, ultimately. And obviously there'll be lesser deals that people will do. He might even instruct an agent to do a smaller deal where they've got a budget and they come back and go, yeah, we've done it, Daniel, for X amount.

52:40And Johan's department will identify, obviously, and do somewhat of the negotiation. But you're sort of trying to get the whole thing packaged up So by the time it lands on Daniel's desk, it's just a question of him freshening out the last sort of minor details, how they're going to pay, when they're going to pay, blah, blah, blah. But ultimately, yeah, he could veto any deal. Generally, what tends to happen is the manager will definitely get one or two that he's strong on. So I think, you know, Frank this summer is particularly strong on Polina. so I mean he did want to bring Norgard but Norgard didn't want to come to Tottenham so once that sort of went away I know that he and the board agreed on Palina so that's the sort of next target it's just how they do the mechanics of that because obviously he's a 30-year-old footballer you can't sort of spend 45 million quid on him and then give him£200 ,000 a week because you're just going to throw£70 million away in three years or four years because he'll be 34.

53:47But for where we are right now, getting him in on loan is sort of a good solution.

53:58Jack:People never like these type of questions. People don't like this training thought. But do you feel that Levy isn't quite as bad for the club as a lot of people think he is? Obviously, I know there are a lot of downsides to it. obviously I know that there's a certain way in which we're operating. We're seeing it this summer. We're just simply never going to operate in the way that Liverpool are this summer, for example. We will never do what Arsenal are doing. We won't ever hit a point. If this Frank project goes swimmingly and all these young players, Bergvold, Greys, Tales, Odebers, all turn into superstars like the Pochettino team, and we can sit there and say, we need one big signing here.

54:41Jack:we need that Virgil van Dijk, Alison Becker moment. We need that. That's not going to happen with Enoch, is it? It's never going to happen with Daniel Levy. No, I think also that... I think one of the fundamental issues with Tottenham is... They're actually approaching it now and they're actually addressing it. In any organisation, particularly at Spurs, the people at the top table at Spurs had never worked in any other environment than Tottenham in the sense of a football environment. So they only know the Enoch way. They only know their way. And they will believe that their way is the way to do it.

55:25They won't be open to different... Or they haven't been, I should say. Not that they won't be. They haven't been open in previous years. For many years, we're talking pretty much the last 23 or 24, three years of their reign to try and do different things. You've had the same main protagonist on the board. You've had Matthew, you've had Daniel, you've had Donna. So those main protagonists, this is our way. They've not gone and worked in another football environment like this Vinay guy and said, well, actually, we did it this way because the way that you're doing it, it didn't work for us. So let's look at different ways of approaching it.

56:06And I think it's a cultural thing where they will believe their way is the best way. And I've had it in work environments myself where I've gone to work for companies. I've been under the same ownership for so many years. And you can see processes that are sort of elongated or long-winded and there's a better way. but because they'd never been instrumental in doing it that way, they stick to what they know. And I think Spurs, there's just a staleness in the sense of the board in that respect. But it's changing. Ultimately, everything has a cycle. And we're getting more towards the tail end of the Enoch cycle now than we've ever been before.

56:57with different influences coming on board. People's circumstances change. I mean, Joe Lewis is a very old man now. You know, he's mid-80s. So the progression has been that's dropped down to certain members of his family who have different ideas. And their voice will definitely be heard at Tottenham. So all of a sudden, it's not a well-done Daniel pat on the back from big Uncle Joe over here in the Bahamas just counting my money. Uncle Joe now had to step away from the football club in a sense. So you're then bringing on board people who go, well, actually, I'm going to be around for the next 15, 20 years.

57:37So what's actually going on at Tottenham? This is now my concern because this is part of my inheritance or whatever it may be. So the wheels are turning. They just turn very, very slowly at Tottenham.

57:51Jack:well this is another question I got from George who said is the end of Enoch near and do you think it will include Daniel Levy because you know again I'm sure this is alluding to the fact we've often heard that Tottenham try to sell the club but keep the chairman which is yeah and the way the club is set up with Daniel having a certain amount of part ownership of the club is always going to cause a difficulty whenever negotiating with someone. Everyone's got to be singing from the same hymn sheet. From what people say within the game, Daniel won't leave Tottenham unless he's in a box sort of thing.

58:35So that's the difficulty and you're trying to deal with those complexities but he is a minor shareholder in the grand scheme of things in comparison to Enoch but then his shares are in Enoch and it's all very, very complicated. But I think yeah it's just a natural progression that like i just sort of spoke about before where people move on and people sort of have to at some point the whole point of investing in something is at some point you cash the chips yeah um so i think it'll end up a more long drawn out saga where they sort of gradually chip away at bits of the club and from what i understand they've got a major sponsorship deal sort of in the last sort of twos and throws of being dealt with there's definitely money coming into the club but trying to find out the source of it is is really difficult because there's talk that it actually might be even for themselves investing money um because they looked at it as well do we want to give away x percentage or just put in x amount which is going to be which is going to be more fruitful for us in the long term.

59:48So I think they're at that sort of stage where they're considering that. But from what I understand, they want to sort of have a little bit of a reshuffle as well. Potentially, it means that Daniel will move to sort of an almost bigger role, if you like, as sort of they take on more projects outside of the club, but within the club, as in the building projects and all that sort of stuff. and sort of he will be the main man at the club still, obviously. But then the football inside of that business, because the business is a huge concern now, would be day-to-day run by someone else.

1:00:29Jack:It is interesting we say that because, I mean, the point I was trying to make at the top there was that there are certain things that you feel like Levy has done well. And you can see that Enick can probably sit back and say, Everyone says we've done it wrong, but look, we've taken Tottenham from being this profile of club to this profile of club now where we currently stand. A semi-regular Champions League team, a global brand, all that type of thing. But to me, at least from the outside, as a fan, it's always felt like Levy, Enoch, their way has been great at building the club, building us to this point.

1:01:06Jack:but it's just felt increasingly so that since we've arrived as being a super club if you want to put it in those terms that they just it just doesn't work on that level like these these clubs at the top end they act seriously you know and we just we just don't seem to still but that that's just my perception on it you know from the outside but no and it's right and it alludes back to what I was saying with regards to they only know their way. Yeah. And they think that that way, because they can go, hang on, 20 years ago, we were nearly out of business or 25 years ago. We've now got a one billion pound stadium.

1:01:46We've now got X amount of assets. We've now got that. Our way has proven to be a model of success. You know, and in terms of ultimately what we see as fans as footballing success will differ from them because they'll go. I mean, obviously, last year's an exception, finished 17th, but generally they're top seven, top six, even, like you say, in Champions League qualifying places. So if you looked at it from a trajectory of that, the club rising to be able to compete in those circumstances compared to when they took over, it's a magnificent success. as fans, that's not success to us in the sense of we want to win trophies and obviously we finally got that one off our backs with the Europa League, so I think it's just a case that they don't they only know their way and it's boring to keep repeating it but in their eyes they're successful and they're like fans should be more grateful because they don't seem to remember what we took over

1:02:58Jack:I'm conscious of the fact I've taken quite a bit of your time Paul so I'll ask you, we've got quite a few more questions but I'll just ask you No, you're good, you're good I've got a good one here that I think people will like this is from Carl Newman who says, can you give us any old Spurs-Bombas deals that nearly happened but didn't quite get over the line? That's caught me out actually I've got to think back

1:03:28um no i don't know in recent years no no um i guess that plays into the fact you say like we hear of everything now don't we really yeah yeah yeah my memory's not the greatest actually to be fair um it's normally my brain's pretty fried most of the time um yeah not really and that's really boring that's really a crap answer i'd love to be able to say yeah we were just about to sign a rude van der Storoy or someone but um no there's not been there's not been any because first they've not they've always shopped you know i compare it to sort of like supermarket shopping and we've never shopped at waitrose you know um we've we've always had to rely on a on a club card offer most of the time you know um something that should have been this is now this amount and we've ended up with some of the most convoluted deals in history.

1:04:23We've had it last summer with this that we're going to get a percentage of a sale of a player that we've never even signed. Yeah, Johnny Cotto. Only Tottenham could dream up this sort of, you know, this guy's never been to the club, never visited North London. We're going to take a share of his sale.

1:04:43Jack:As well, the player that apparently begged the club not to buy outright or something. Yeah, I mean, that and the Morgan gives White sort of fiasco to the funniest, well, not funny at the time, but when we look back in years to come, you know, it'll be tales of fucking woe, just very, very bizarre, some really strange. I mean, I do remember one player once his agent said to me, they had a meeting with Daniel Levy and he said, First of all, you should even be honoured that a club like Tottenham are looking at your player. I thought this is what you're going to get and that's the deal. Let's just shake hands now.

1:05:27That's a funny sort of Daniel antidote. He has a very high opinion of Tottenham. He has a very high opinion of himself. You can't not say that he doesn't bat for Spurs, to be fair. he does stand his ground on stuff that he believes in. Whether we agree with him or not is another matter, but in his mind, as he likes to say, he's the custodian of the club. So he loves to say that. And he's been a bit more vocal, actually, in the last couple of years, which is really not like him to do these uncomfortable things. He hates doing them, you know, the Q &A thing that they have to do. They've signed up to it every year, and you can sense he squirming in his chair.

1:06:17He hates it.

1:06:20Jack:I can imagine from his perspective he's thinking, is there going to be that one hero that's going to stand up today and really put a horrible question to me? Who's going to circumnavigate the pre-screened questions that we've agreed to? Yeah, exactly. When he said, because he sort of fluffed his lines a little bit with we want to win the Champions League, what he was trying to say was, look, we want to be successful. You lot think we just want to coin the money. But he can't say it in those terms. He wants to say, we want success as much as you do. That's what he should have said. Instead, he's named the Champions League.

1:06:59Of course, the minute he says that, people think, right, so this summer, Daniel, we're going to go and spend£350,£500. No, that's not what he's saying. What he's actually trying to say is, we want to be as successful as much as you do. But yeah, now that quote is floating around. Anytime anything goes wrong, that float's floating around. So things do sort of bite him on the arse. But at the same time, by the same token, he absolutely loves the infamy. And he loves the sort of, Daniel Levy's a hard-nosed negotiator, best negotiator in football. You don't want to get on the wrong side of Daniel.

1:07:33It all sort of plays into his sort of ego, ultimately. And we're all ego-driven to some respect. let's put our cards on the table we all want to fill and dig ourselves up and he's no different

1:07:48Jack:and this is life's work isn't it that's the thing absolutely it's an interesting one it's funny Sean Big says and this is a random one this is not a football one he says hi Paul huge fan what would be on the plate of your ultimate Sunday roast oh we have to go with lamb don't we we've got a nice nice nice uh leg of lamb yeah yorkshire yorkshire with every roast dinner by the way jack of course of course we don't we don't we don't we don't do this it only goes with beef shit no let's not mess around we have yorkshires in my house on every single roast dinner yeah even if it's a mini roast the yorkshire's a part of that mini roast yeah so yeah and loads of gravy loads of gravy yeah good old roast man not too much veg not too much veg a bit of spring greens and that sort of thing on the side yeah we're big on the greens in this house yeah big on the greens big on the big on the collie i bring on the broccoli we're sorted well that's enough that's enough that's always a cauliflower with a roast is one that people always are like oh i don't know if you're like i i'm i personally i'm i'm all for it we're definitely we're definitely pro cauliflower yeah but not with the cheese on no no that's just cheese and gravy are you are you actually a mentalist we can't do cheese and gravy we can't have we can't have this american invasion of our sunday roast you know exactly cauliflower cheese um i guess i'll ask i'll ask you this last one because we saw a touch already but john drew at jd john drew says how how can you stand taking all the utter shite you do from Melodons on Twitter.

1:09:32Look, at the end of the day, I mean, people think, oh, you get so angry. I love playing up to that, to be honest with you. Listen, I have an ego. I'm arrogant. I get all that. And I just think, do you know what? Actually, you're not going to fucking say that to me without me coming back at you and calling you a CUNC or whatever, yeah? Because if I was still in a pub, you wouldn't just come up to some random guy and go, you support Spurs? What do you think they're saying? Oh, he's all right, decent player. you some sort of cunt you know what I mean you wouldn't behave like that if I met you in the street you'd shake my hand we'd have a drink blah blah blah no problem and it's words on a screen ultimately and yeah look you put yourself out there at the end of the day Jack I put myself out there alright and I put my name against stuff and sometimes it goes fucking pear-shaped and you look alright tit and in football I have a saying that you know football can make you look very stupid very quickly yeah we won today against Arsenal we're bigging it up, if we played them first game of the season we could get beat 5-0 and then we look at utter dicks that's football and deals will go wrong if you put yourself out there, I don't have to put myself out there, and I do so I have to take a portion of the blame if things go wrong it's just words on a screen I mean I liked Thomas Frank's approach where he basically says that he has a no dickheads rule and if someone's just being a dick and I can't be bothered, then I'll just block them.

1:11:02So I've probably blocked about 20 ,000 accounts because I get bored of seeing them, to be honest. I see shit from people like Talks. Why do I want to look and read that crap? They're just there just trying to light fires to get advertising for their clicks. So people like that will block. People that personally abuse, well, you're never going to like everyone. And they're not going to like you. They're not going to be your cup of tea. So I sort of filter it. But yeah, I bite back for a laugh sometimes. And people think, oh, look at him. He's arguing with teenagers and all this. Yeah, well, sometimes you need to tell them their little shits and sort of sort themselves out.

1:11:41So yeah, but if you put yourself out there, then you have to accept that responsibility. And you have to accept that if things go wrong, you're going to get butchered. Nothing's happening in the world of football. and then all of a sudden I get like fucking 300 notifications, oh fuck, what's happened what have I said, and I log in and I go oh for fuck's sake like Spurs is ingrained in me as well like the other day I'm fucking talking to someone just in conversation about Morgan is why you know, potentially coming, blah blah blah and what did I say, I said something, I said oh well actually technically did you know sort of thing, a player can buy out his contract after a certain amount of time.

1:12:27It's actually a FIFA rule. They have what's called a three-year protected period. So the first three years of your contract, if you're a player under age 28, you can't get out of it. But once you get to the three-year cycle, you can effectively negotiate and exit with the club. Well, Morgan Gibbs-White was due on August the 19th this year. So we're talking about a month. So I started saying, well, you know, actually, he could technically buy himself out of his deal on August 90, Spurs give him money he buys out his contract and they get a player for nothing sort of thing but obviously it's fucking it's so unprecedented, this doesn't happen fuck me, five minutes later David Ornstein, Morgan Gibbs White is signing a new contract with Nightingale Forest literally five minutes after I just said technically he can buy himself out so now people are going, you said you're going to buy himself out and now you look a right cunt so yeah I was like fuck you David you made me a right dickhead and then I had the whole fiasco with kudos because the information that I was given from West Ham from direct within the football club was Spurs aren't nowhere near the arsling price you don't get a right winger of his quality for that amount of money so it's a long way off literally two hours later they fucking done the deal you know so again and I looked at the right cock and people, you know nothing, blah, blah, blah.

1:13:55That's part of the game. People will give you bump steers, send you off down the wrong road. Like I say, ultimately, if I put myself out there, then I have to expect a certain amount of discourse if it goes wrong.

1:14:08Jack:Of course. I think at the same time, to balance it out, there's an awful lot of good sentiment towards you once Tottenham fans pull. Yeah, exactly. One of people's favourite things and a skill, I've got to say, if I'm to blow smoke up your ass that you've managed to carefully cultivate is the mid-thread bomber, as people call it. When, like you say, you're having a conversation with somebody, five or six tweets deep, and then there's just a nice juicy bit of information put in there for anybody that's paying attention. Yeah, because people say, oh, you're just doing it for clickbait, blah, blah, blah.

1:14:44If I wanted to do that, then I would do standalone tweets consistently and I'd buy myself a blue tick and all the rest and get Elon's fucking 0.0.1 pence per fucking view and all that bollocks. That doesn't particularly interest me. I do a Patreon pod, but it's a Premier League thing. We've got four people that talk about what's going on in the Premier League. So I was approached to do that. I thought, yeah, that's actually outside. That's a little bit outside of that Tottenham bubble. So it'd be quite interesting to do that. So yeah, yeah, the mid-thread bombers. Yeah, they love them, don't they?

1:15:17because I often forget myself that's all it is Jack and I forget who I'm talking to and I forget I think that I'm just talking to that person but I'm not really am I I'm fucking talking to you know 200 ,000 Spurs fans or whatever and I keep forgetting

1:15:30Jack:a paying mob of people with desperate feelings and then I think oh fuck yeah why do I say that yeah yeah like working on something like this this proxy investment thing like you know for 15 years or whatever we've been hearing that it's going to be this it's going to be that and you think, do you know what, if I put something out there, I haven't bothered before because I just thought it's just, people are bored of hearing the same old shit. I'm bored of it as well. But this time it actually seems like something will actually develop. So that's going to be one to watch. But of course, the moment I tweeted the following day is, well, where's this investment?

1:16:10What's happening? Well, you said there's going to be investment.

1:16:13Jack:Why haven't we bought Adam Wharton yet? Yeah, another nonsense. a fucking hundred million quid yeah daniel is going to really do that i mean yeah sometimes i wonder how much they do understand about um the mechanics and how top them operate but but yeah overall yeah take it for what it is but yeah i do forget myself and i do forget who i'm talking to half the time the uh just before we go paul the pod you just touched on there's the inside forward am i right do you want to yeah yeah yeah give it a plug yeah so basically there's just There's some good guys that are well-connected within their own clubs.

1:16:49So, obviously, X at West Ham and Tina, who's at Arsenal. So, that was another thing, actually, because that was quite an interesting dynamic. Like, let's get an Arsenal and Spurs fan on, you know. He's actually a really good guy. So, they're not all that bad. But when it comes to the football rivalry, obviously, that's a different matter. and got a good guy, really good guy from Everton, the bubble. So yeah, we knock a couple of those out a month just reviewing sort of the Premier League and the world of football sort of four geezers just having a bit of a chat really and occasionally we get snippets and we can put bits and pieces out of it.

1:17:30So yeah, it's enjoyable.

1:17:32Jack:It's inside four words. So it's as in like F-O-R-E-W-O-R-D. But Paul, I really appreciate your time today, mate. Thanks very much for coming on and having a chat. No, you're very welcome. I'm pretty sure we could have just kept going all night, to be fair. Yeah, yeah. But everyone will be like fucking half asleep by now. Put the pod on when you go to bed at night and you'll be in sleep in 20 minutes. That's a rave review. Rave review if I've heard. Yeah, brilliant.

1:18:11Thank you.