Spurs Win At Everton | Van de Ven's Brace, Set-Piece Strength & What It Says About Modern Football

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1:46In by Carol Wynn! Van der Ben got a nick! And Spurs have two! Hello everybody, welcome back to Rule the Roost podcast.

2:03Phil, we're sat third in the table, mate. You know, there's been a lot of kind of chat about Tommy Frank and how good or not he is. Some of it from myself. but Tottenham Hotspur first team to win at the Hill Dickie Bum Stadium 3-0 doing alright aren't we? Yes in short I think that being third in the table was great you always have those moments we've had this for the last 30 odd years certainly the last 15 years about football where everything is under the microscope so much you're like if only we'd got a win out of that or if only we hadn't sort of drawn that game and stuff, we'd be top. That adds a bit of frustration, but in a good way, isn't it?

2:51Because it just shows you how sort of close we are to actually being at the top table, right? But yeah, in short, everything is pretty good at the moment, I think, considering where we were last season. You know, you don't want to sort of compare and contrast to that too much, but it is relevant, isn't it? We were terrible last season. And then there were things that needed to be fixed. And those are the things that are being focused on. And yeah, it's been beneficial to us at the moment. So I think, you know, within that context, everything is going rather well, Jack. Well, if we're going to talk about comparing and contrasting, I know you said you don't want to do that, but I'm not going to do that to last season.

3:31I'm going to do it to this very season. How would you compare yesterday's result and performance to the one that the Etihad earlier on in the season. Two emphatic, lovely, big, juicy away wins for Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. But I feel like the discussion out the back of the Manchester City one was very different to the discussion thus far we're seeing out the back of this Everton game. Yeah, I think that there are definitely comparables there in terms of, you know, we're away for a start and that brings with it certain freedoms. ironically, in the way you can play, as in no one's going to get on your back about sitting back and hitting someone on the counter-attack or kind of relying on the tools that you have at your disposal, even if those tools aren't necessarily the most prettiest of things, i.e.

4:22set pieces and long throws and all that sort of thing. But yeah, I mean, we did play better football against City, but then, you know, City just still have this weird sort of basket case thing, not necessarily in relation to us, but they can sort of just leave themselves open and we benefited from that. I don't think Everton left themselves open particularly. They were quite solid through the middle without having to do anything. So yeah, there's definitely something to compare about there but it's just a different game and different set of challenges really, isn't it? I think people sort of forget that about how football is nowadays.

4:56You know, it's not necessary. You play one way a certain week and you should be playing that every other game because another team has a big say how the game goes. So, yeah, all in all, it was actually a really good result yesterday. You know, I mean, I thought we were bang on just going to lose that 2-1. You know, they hadn't lost at home. We hadn't lost away. Those sorts of things don't usually go in our favour. But that's being said, we kind of played a perfect game, right? In terms of, again, the challenge that we were faced with and how Everton play. We kind of just, we just did them. They didn't really kind of threaten us that much, did they?

5:35I mean, it is interesting because I think Everton are actually a good side. So that definitely has given me a level of buoyancy, shall we say, after that. Not like winning 3-0 away from home isn't buoyant enough in effect. I don't know why I'm talking about floating on water so much here.

6:00But it's really, it's just, it's quite hard to adjust to, isn't it? this idea that Spurs can just be quite ruthless. And I think that's, like you say, I think it was quite a ruthless performance. Frank himself said in the wake of it that he praised the team's discipline and ruthlessness. And that's exactly what it was. It wasn't the most glorious spectacle in that second half. And I do understand why people who are, should we say football purists if you like might not be enjoying that but look at arsenal they are and i know people keep saying don't look at but i'm not doing it in that sense i'm just doing it from the perspective of arsenal are the best team in the country currently they're sat top of the table they're a team that have always had these should we say airs and graces about the way in which they play football despite the fact that you know they've got they've got murder ball heritage under George Graham and the like.

7:02But still, they kind of have these sort of ideals of how they want football to be played. But they are akin to, as I said on the post-match, stoke with money right now. And when I look at it, look, Spurs are away record now, 13 points from a possible 15. We're doing something right, aren't we? We're doing something right away from home. But I guess the point I want to put to you, mate, is it's a trade-off what we're seeing here. So we're talking about discipline and ruthlessness. We're seeing a performance like yesterday where we were quite happy to just contain Everton, hit him on the break, or hit him from set pieces.

7:42So to pick him off and let them kind of, you know, try and punch us as if it was punching in a dream. But do you think it's this same mentality that seems to work so effectively away from home that is undermining our home form? do you think we are perhaps being too back-footed at home and I really the thing is I don't want to in the wake of a 3-0 victory away from home spin this into some type of negative but I'm just I'm simply trying to work out how Spurs can be one of the best teams away from home right now and just be so pig at home which we seem to be right yeah I mean it's interesting isn't it and it is right to make that comparison because it's quite a stark comparison everyone's talking about the fact that we're so good away but we're not good at home it's it's not about being negative there is a talking point there right um yeah i mean football is in a bit of a different place at the minute as you say you know you reference arsenal and it could be any team whoever the team was at the top if they were playing this well playing this way to get there that that would be the point we have we have kind of gone into this mode of like you know a bit more um old-fashioned I guess the way we can call it uh just just for uh just for a phrase um but there is something that maybe it's just this idea that you know football should be entertainment football should be this that and the other you know you've got these ideas like the Tottenham way of playing or the West Ham way of playing what does that what does that really mean though you know what I mean I mean I feel like that's a bit of a romanticising things are probably not that accurate.

9:20I'm sure there was lots of games during the period or in the times where we were seen as these kind of, you know, the really sort of fancy flash team that played with style. I'm sure there was elements of playing this way then as well. You know, all right, we could talk about the 60s. We were one of the best and most expensive teams. And so we could play like that. But I do just wonder if the idea of entertaining football has fallen by the wayside. It's not about entertainment. It's about making money and being successful and not really caring what the fans think about it. So maybe that's why we're seeing this kind of reversion to long throws, set pieces and stuff like that, because it's more about, no, let's just get the result.

10:05We don't really care. You know, people are bought into it. People are going to pay. They're locked into it now. It doesn't really matter too much if they're, you know, they're being entertained with like step overs and flowing football. So maybe that's something that we need to, you know, take heed of and just actually accept that at home, we don't probably need to play the way that we want to play. We can just play a bit more like this that we're good at because we're clearly good at it because it's, you know, we're getting lots of dividends from it. So yeah, I mean, I don't know. I mean, yeah, right.

10:39It is incumbent on you as the home team to kind of take the game and be in control. I will say that we're between a rock and a hard place with that because we've got enough of a squad to be able to play on a counter-attacking team, the way that we play away, but we don't really have the tools to play the other way at home. So that's why there's the stark difference, right? That's a simple fact. So, you know, and again, I just come back to the point that we needed to focus on defence. We need to focus on becoming more solid. So we just haven't got there yet where we're stringing the kind of the other half of the game together.

11:15It works away because, you know, you can do that as an away team. You're not really allowed to. The home fans get on your back. The home fans expect a certain way. So that's why there is this kind of narrative about us. But I don't think it's a problem. I don't think it's a long-running problem. I think it comes out in the wash probably quite soon as well. allow me my moment for a like a bit of dunning kruger shallow analysis here but do you think you could say of football that it's really ultimately falling victim to this sort of late stage capitalist idea that hampers most things in life you know we we talk about the fact that all these sort of barrett homes housing estates pop up all around the country they're all kind of identikit they maximize the space that has been afforded to them so often no gardens no trees that type of thing right but it's all about margins it's all about numbers everyone has a laugh about ba taking a couple of olives away from the complimentary pot of olives and they've saved themselves 12 million pounds a year or something ridiculous you know there's all these kind of little margins that football now is like you say we have these sort of heady ideals of like the 1960s and all this type of thing of swashbuckling football.

12:37And again, as you sort of allude to, and as I think it was Flav said to me before when I was talking to him on a pod, we do have a propensity to romanticise that period. But a lot of the reason why Spurs were one of the best teams in the country is because we used to spend loads of money at that period. We spent a lot more money than a lot of clubs around us were able to do. And hence success followed. And that doesn't mean that's not to say that the double winning team and stuff weren't glorious. And I'm not trying to make that point. But at the same time, with any sort of industry of anything in life, you can start to dial down into the numbers and things do become less romantic.

13:18And right now, I guess the number crunch, the boffins, if you like, as it would say in a Sun article, wouldn't it? Do you know what I mean? Yeah. and onlookers said and onlookers said they're going really bad at home yeah the boffins have decided that you know you've got to win most games it's not about entertaining football it's about winning games it's about ensuring that you finish in this position in the league because you've got sponsors you've got all these different people you've got whatever there's a lot of vested interests in football now that want to see you do well it's not just the game is it it's a business and if the trend right now is hollow out these fine margins that frank keeps talking about on the football pitch which equals success then that's the way that the teams are going to push towards right like like i think luis enrique for for large parts of his career has been sort of held up as like a more pragmatic coach and yeah psg look great now but psg look great because they've got a pragmatic foundation and then they've got the money to add these incredible young talents into their teams which I do feel like Spurs Spurs are doing slowly but surely you know we've only had one transfer window under Thomas Frank I would I would hazard a guess that we're going to drop a wedge in January I think we are going to want to make a statement at that point and as such i i reckon we we we might be all right sorry there's quite a bit of quite a bit of word spaghetti there mate but you can you take anything from from my garbled sort of economics wrangling there uh no you lost me actually no but no i was just too just too smart too smart even for me yeah you touched on it and I think what we're kind of seeing now with football and you're right I think that's a good point to make why would football be immune to how every other industry in the world is going as you say you use the BA example of the olives everything is getting squeezed and it is about the margins and it is about that so yeah I mean quite because I don't think necessarily there's been a concerted effort.

15:44It's just something has happened in football where Guardiola's star has fallen a little bit or he hasn't got this new kind of Man City quite right yet for the last couple of years, if not three years. So football has responded to that in a way that it's kind of gone back to basics in a way, right? You've heard Sean Dyke talking about how, you know, he's used it a couple of times. I've seen him on a podcast and I've seen him in a press conference using this example of Cluffy's forest and about how, you know, the centre-back split and one winger goes up and one striker drops. You know, he's making the point that this modern football is actually what's been happening for ages.

16:25But what he doesn't talk about is that's fine because that's what football is. But it's the other bits, as you say, it's those incremental small gains that you have to keep an eye on, as in, you know, your long throws. why not use a long throw? A throw-in was the most boring part of football, right? Or a goal kick. They tried goal kicks. That's kind of gone by the wayside. We just play it short now. But now we've got long throws back. Throw-ins are exciting again, which is a great thing, right? Especially when you've got big Kevin Danso lobbing it in from miles away. But yeah, I don't really know kind of what the answer is.

17:00I don't know if it's a concerted effort everyone's got together and been like, right, this is how we're changing football. But something has definitely happened, isn't it? where, you know, as I say, we're reverting to this. Maybe it's the idea as well that whereas the league may not actually be better than it's ever been, I think the quality gap is smaller than it ever has been. That's probably not a bad shout, especially if you look at the promoted teams. They're doing really well compared to last season where everyone kind of thought, are promoted teams ever going to stay in the Premier League again?

17:32Or is it just going to be the three up and go down again? That's changed. And I think the gap is, you know, by like awful West Ham or Wolves, who did a number on us, by the way. Is it just that because there's so little room for any of sort of this expression that everyone has actually kind of just subtly or kind of subconsciously reverted to this idea of like, well, this is how we win the game. We just got to win it by any means and get the points for that reason. You said, as you say, late stage capitalism gains, squeeze out as much as you can and profit, basically. do you mind as long as Spurs are good though?

18:09That's the question. No, not really. How puritanical are you about it? I never have been. I think that, you know, I know you're not a fan of Conte, but this was a discussion around then, you know, about kind of boring people to tears. And I was like, well, it is quite exciting winning, you know, regardless of sort of how you've done it. As much as, you know, a football game doesn't, yeah, again, it's this idea that it's supposed to be entertainment. It's not. It's supposed to be a sport and it's supposed to be a sport with many kind of cogs and gears and stuff. Right. So there's many different ways to win.

18:45And, you know, I don't want to necessarily see us lose 4-3 with the last minute goal, which is a great game to watch a match a day for everyone because that brew is my weekend. I'd just rather see us win, mate. You know, I guess there is kind of levels to that. But still, you know, winning is the name of the game, really. It's not entertainment. It's not wrestling. and it's not razzmatazz, it's all that. It is a sport. And again, sport evolves and adapts. So again, yeah, not wedded to that idea at all. Yeah, don't get it wrong. Everyone loves to see like bicycle kicks and stuff like that, right?

19:17But still, a goal is a goal and it's exciting no matter how it happens. Look at Brendan Johnson's goal. That's the biggest goal we've ever celebrated in our lives in the Europa League finals. Probably one of the worst goals you've ever seen. I I I recognize Celebrated Lucas Morris girls more If I'm honest If I'm brutally honest I was in the toilet For Brendan Johnson's One anyway As you know So Oh yeah You were a fighting Cog weren't you It was probably more Exciting actually But yeah What were you up to In there No just Again it was just It was just more Eventful than Barely getting Barely getting Like a whisker on it Yeah Yeah You just had everyone Go potty As you were On the potty There we go There we go.

20:01Yeah, there's your three line. Everton were the only Premier League side yet to concede from a non-penalty set piece this season before the match. Obviously, we broke that record twice. Are you seeing something there? Do you think that's a concerted effort? I think because it seems quite interesting to me that... I mean, I felt yesterday, right? Mickey van der Ven, he's picked up two headers there from the corners. do we often stick him up in the box for corners do we often like make take advantage of the fact we have this gigantic titan of a man in our defense who admittedly usually isn't that good in the air although i think he won all of his aerial jaws yesterday did that strike you as something new that we're trying yeah i think so and i think frank alluded to that as well didn't he i think that there he never seems to be the target does he always seems to be benton because the target right because he's decent in the air maybe he's the sort of player that you're like well we'll pick up the two centre-backs and whomever else and then Ben Sikor kind of just you know it just a gay was on him yesterday and just let him go for the first one because it's that sort of thing it's like well I'll let him go because he's not you know you focus on the centre-backs all right he nods it across back to Van de Ven but yeah I mean Frank said post-match didn't he he said that I think Nicky's only scored one headed goal and he's spoken to him about well you know you should be scoring more so to score two so yeah i mean that that that suggests it is a concerted effort to actually be like again it's that thing is like why has our giant six foot four center back who you know can attack in the box why has he only got one headed goal let's fix it let's let's work out something doesn't have to be the whole focus of our game he's we're not playing him up front or anything but it's just these again these kind of small margins that's something we can fix and it pays dividends he might not score another header for like you know two months or something or even longer even the season but it's not the point it's in those moments you have to kind of cover those gaps and yeah I think that's that that's the way to winning at the moment it seems what other goals does he score he scored that goal against Bournemouth away didn't he in the early days of Ange yeah did he score one like that where it was quite a nice sort of effort But I'm trying to think of what other goals he scored for us.

22:16He usually scores with his feet. I think he scored a couple of crackers, hasn't he? Yeah, yeah. He usually scores with his feet. He scored against Bode Glimp, didn't he? Yeah. And then he... I think he did. He definitely had one disallowed as well, didn't he? No, yeah, but he didn't take that shot, did he? He pushed someone over and was penalised for it. but I think I'm pretty sure he scored in that game as well. The world's biggest soccer tournament has arrived and you can trade the entire tournament on Kalshi. On Kalshi, you can trade every match from the opening stage all the way to the final.

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23:58From outdoor shades to room darkening blinds, finding the perfect fit is easy. Get free samples, expert design help, and professional measure and install services, or DIY with confidence and support every step of the way. Shop up to 50 % off site-wide, plus huge savings on doorbusters, right now during the 4th of July mega sale at blinds.com. According to the sort of data I saw from yesterday, so our total XG from yesterday was 2.08, but 1.3 of that was from set pieces. so our open play xg was 0.78 which i know a lot of people have an issue with but one interesting sort of statistic that i saw yesterday that throws it into stark contrast again is that arsenal are currently 17th this season for goals scored from open play in the premier league yet there they sit top of the table so what i will say is like you know can i just shock you i don't really mind set pieces if set pieces seem seemingly are the thing that teams just haven't got an effective handle on yet which is clearly the case why wouldn't we take advantage of it i think this is just what i'm trying to wrap my head around it's like i know we've sort of covered this in the conversation we've just had there but if there are effective ways of scoring goals and winning games I don't know why we wouldn't exploit that and if if if if we're doing that well if we're doing that effectively with the sort of half fit squad that we have right now at our disposal surely logic would dictate that when we add sort of players like James Madison who is very good at set pieces dead balls you add a player like Dejan Kulusevsky into the mix who you know is is all right from a dead ball but is also a very physical combative player who will benefit us a lot in that in that final third especially when we're talking about from an open player perspective i think we've got quite a lot to be sort of quietly quite quite confident and happy about don't we definitely definitely you know again it's it's the context of everything we were woeful last season and that's not just you don't just say okay defend better from you know from july when they come back from their summer breaks and then it fixes everything it takes a while you know there's muscle memory there there's kind of attitude about running back and like getting into position and all that sort of thing that you need to kind of drill into players that's how training works and i think a lot of people kind of forget that side of football that it's more just like you drag the slider up on um football manager and then it all just fits into place and they do that it's not it's not how it works it's it's it's repetition isn't it so yeah i i'm not concerned in in any sense of about about how we started and the way we started i think there's a clear logic as you say to what why is um we can we can certainly improve in the areas that we need to improve upon and we're doing all right in the ones that we're doing all right and so yeah at this stage it's fine Julio Mavacario followed up his sort of heroics against Monaco with a with a fine performance again yesterday do you reckon he's do you reckon he's taking on board what a lot of the haters are saying or do you think he's just getting on with his game and he's sort of showing that maybe he is a bit better than I mean I'm not gonna lie like he's we've always known he's very good at reflex saves right and what he's done in the past couple of games is be really good from reflex saves.

27:47I'm just sort of saying I'm not really buying the whole that the haters are being owned stuff, being one of the haters. I sort of see it as he's doing a good job, he's making some great saves, but I still think a lot of the stuff that annoys me about him still kind of exists, right? Yeah, you're absolutely right. And it is right to say completely that he's had a couple of really good games, as you say, shot stopping. But this is, again, a bit of a pet peeve of mine with goalkeepers, not necessarily him specifically, but when people refer to a keeper as a good shot stopper, it's like you're a Premier League footballer, mate.

28:24That's the absolute bare minimum you should be good at, right? A good shot stopper. That being said, he makes some really excellent and above the line sort of saves, particularly the one that took two deflection. I don't think a hell of a lot was made out of that. But I think that's a sign of a really good shot stopper, right? A player that can actually kind of react. But you're right. I mean, I think the criticism levelled at him wasn't about his shot stopping. It wasn't about the saves he was making. It was about his distribution and his decision making when he has the ball. And, you know, I think if you think about the shots, I don't think we've, you know, The fact that he's had two matches back-to-back where he's faced a lot of shots, I think that's quite rare for us, or certainly rare for him.

29:11I don't think we give up that many shots. And when we do, it might squirm through it. It might be kind of a guilt-edged chance that goes against us. So you could look at this, and again, it'll be hindsight when we look back on these couple of games where actually, if he is lacking a bit of confidence, these two games are doing the world of good, right? He's kind of had the proverbial, one's gone in off his arse, right? As in, he's just been peppered and he's kept them all out. Great, well done. And yeah, hopefully his confidence grows and then that can bleed into the other areas where, you know, we kind of, where the criticism comes from.

29:49His distribution is kind of playing out from the back that he makes. It's not so much in playing out the back, it's the decisions he makes when he's playing out of the back and puts us under pressure. Happened against Villa, clearly, a couple of times. so yeah I don't really buy that it's the C I told you so because the criticisms were for something else again that's not to say that he hasn't been really good these last two games he has I think the point I've always made is that it's not that he's a bad keeper is he? He's not it's always through that sort of lens of if we want to be one of the best teams in the country then he's not the he's not the guy to do it but you know i i'm not again i'm not gonna i don't want to use a good performance from him as a springboard to sort of slag him off it's great you know he he did pull off some absolutely phenomenal saves yesterday um it's just it's part of that whole thing is it where like two two thoughts can coexist right and i know i know i know we don't like that anymore do we we don't like that on the internet but But I think it's true, isn't it?

31:01Pap Sar, there's another talking point, mate. Came on, scored a goal, looked good, didn't he? Why is he not playing him? I don't get it. Does it annoy you at all? I mean, how do you feel about the Pelinia-Bentenka double pivot? Would you like to see Sar playing some more? Obviously, I've sort of nailed my colours to the... Do you nail your colours to the mast? where do you nail them? Yeah, you do. You nail them to the mast. Yeah, I've done that. I'm not. I think, unfortunately, that it's a bit of a necessary evil, the Paulini or Benton Coeur thing. I think that the players that... Uh-oh. Hang on.

31:41...frank most... I don't like it, necessarily. I mean, I think that there's definitely... It's definitely an issue, and it was definitely an issue against Villa. And, you know, some of the poor performances, certainly at home, have been down to that a lot of the time. and I really like Saar but I don't know I mean I'm not my heart doesn't sink when I see them two playing because I feel like I just kind of get why it has to be that at the moment again if that carries on and it isn't fixed and it isn't changed or you know Bentico doesn't suddenly start playing a bit further up the field like he did when he first got here do you remember when he was in like the final third and he was pulling the strings and he was fantastic we haven't seen that Bentico for ages but with Saar yeah I mean he didn't look too happy when he came on I don't know if it's that he scored the third goal in the 89th minute to put a game that we pretty much only won to bed but there was a bit of like attitude from him which is good to see in a way because you again you kind of want players to sort of be put out but they're not they're not featuring and that's I think a good sign and it's a bit of a toxic trait I think but that's what football is right you need a bit of that you need players kicking off and kind of forcing their way into a manager's thinking I think there is there is some talk about just on that on the muted celebration that it could be uh he could be alluding to the very unfortunate death of a of a young Senegalese footballer who was I think he was kidnapped and murdered um quite recently and I think perhaps has been speaking about it on some of his channels maybe on Instagram um so it might have been I think we have maybe taken that on a footballer because I saw that and I thought, yeah, he's, he's brewing and he's making a point there.

33:29But some people seem to be suggesting that it's actually a point towards this unfortunate kind of thing that's happened off the pitch. That kind of makes more sense actually, doesn't it? Because I think that he, he doesn't sort of seem to be that player with the massive ego who would sort of kickoff. I mean, you look at Xavi Simmons, for instance, I don't want to sort of unfairly tarnish him by saying he's got a massive ego or anything, but, you know, he looked really unhappy being sort of taken off, which again is sort of fine for that. But I never felt like Sar sort of has that sort of attitude towards things, but, you know, maybe he does need a little bit more of it to kind of force his way in a bit more.

34:13But, you know, I've always kind of really liked him and I feel like probably when we're a bit more settled and everyone sort of knows their roles a bit more we see a bit more of the interchange between Bentukur and him Paulinho probably won't start every game I think that they tried to rotate him out a bit but lost something so he's playing a lot of football at the moment Paulinho and I suspect that at some point that won't be the case and that's when Sar's chance arises. Where are you at with Siemens at the moment mate because I didn't mind the reaction I sort of thought yeah I want players to be hungry and all that type of thing even if it is something like you know an egotistical stroke or something like that i'm not too bothered like what footballers are isn't it they all want to be the best and all that type of thing but i think we can sort of look at the fact he's adjusting he's a young player the team perhaps isn't set up to see him thrive right now but were you expecting a bit more I'll be I was probably expecting a little bit more from him by now if I'm brutally honest yeah I think so but they kind of get wrapped up in the sort of idea of like you know this sort of superstar coming and you expect that it that that again it's that thing of this is now solved we don't need to worry about it when actually in truth there's a lot of work that has to go into um having someone settled not necessarily in the kind of like moving country sense but in the in the fluidity of our attack which isn't really kind of there as well you know In his defence, I think there's been a lot of different players playing around him and he's playing in different roles.

35:51I'm not concerned, but I agree with you. Like I just said, him getting upset about being brought off is a good sign. As long as you're not grabbing the manager up by his drapes or something and having to go at him, frustration is good because you know that what you've put in or the situation isn't good enough and it's incumbent on you to fix it. which leads me to my next point it's like when you get those opportunities to slide someone in you've got to not fluff your pass mate simple as that do that better and you probably won't get hauled off after 60 minutes or so do you like are you hopeful that he will because i sort of i still see flashes of light in being a good player do you know what i mean like i still i still think he's i still think he's somebody that is going to be very helpful to us i'm just sort of wondering where he plays, how he operates when say like Madison's back when Kalishevsky's back do we shift him out wide or do we play Madison out wide, do we play him alongside each other, I'm just quite interested to sort of see how that's going to play out because I would imagine there is going to be some expectation on Frank to stick with the lad because we've spent a lot of money on him haven't we he's paying him a lot of money more to the point yeah what 250 a week probably give or take it's you know it's a bit annoying it's a bit annoying that like the first sort of big exciting transfer we've made in quite some time is you know having a shall we say like a stuttering start but it's very early days that's what I keep sort of telling myself right with regards to him yeah it is but you'd hope over the next four games we start to see a marked improvement we're at that stage aren't we Yes, it is still early days.