In short
A Spurs-focused, nostalgic discussion of Dele Alli’s peak years, prompted by his recent social-media posts recreating iconic Tottenham goals. Hosts argue Dele was uniquely “hard to define,” a maverick who thrived in Pochettino’s system but struggled after managers became more prescriptive (they single out Mourinho). They also debate why his career didn’t progress as expected, citing mental-health struggles and editing/portrayal issues around “All or Nothing.”
Guests
Phil (co-host; attended Dele’s early Spurs appearances, including a Munich tournament where Dele nutmegged Modric; remembers Dele’s immediate impact and later decline). Ted Trunk (host; leads the episode, shares memories and asks questions).
Key claims
Dele’s best football was among the best ever seen in a Spurs shirt; his Ajax assist to Lucas Moura is his most distinctive moment; Pochettino fit him perfectly; modern football’s “pepification” and physical demands may not suit him; “All or Nothing” likely edited footage to fit a “lazy maverick” narrative.
Notable examples
Palace goal (Selhurst Park nutmeg/chip); Ajax semi-final assist; Chelsea Stamford Bridge dink; Palace and Arsenal goals; FA Cup semi-final vs Chelsea; Real Madrid Wembley (two goals); North London Derby at White Hart Lane; Spurs’ 16–17/17–18 era.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOReflecting on Dele Alli
1:44 to 3:56
The hosts discuss Dele Alli's impact at Tottenham and personal memories of him.
“From athletic to athletic-ish, Sierra's got it.”
Unique Talents and Playing Style
3:56 to 8:07
The hosts explore Dele's unique playing style and his comparison to other players.
“So, yeah, that was kind of the first experience I had with him, and he didn't really kind of let up until, you know, right at the end of his time here.”
Management Challenges and Career Trajectory
8:07 to 11:43
Discussion on managerial styles affecting Dele's career and his evolution at Spurs.
Dele's Early Promise and Future
11:43 to 14:00
The hosts reflect on Dele Alli's early career and potential for future success.
“Jokingly that this was the Dele Alli era all along.”
The Rise of Dele Alli
14:00 to 15:50
Discussing Dele Alli's early potential and impressive performances.
Comparing Generations of Spurs Players
15:50 to 17:48
Exploring the impact of Dele Alli within a legendary Spurs team.
“where we didn't really sign those exciting young players am I right in saying that?”
Dele's Unique Impact and Career Trajectory
17:48 to 19:53
Analyzing how Dele Alli influenced his teammates and his position in modern football.
“He definitely gave it a different dimension, didn't he?”
Media Representation and Personal Struggles
19:53 to 23:06
Discussing the portrayal of Dele Alli in media and the impact of mental health.
“And, you know, I think with the right manager in place, he could have developed onto a different level as well and, you know, turn into a different sort of player.”
The All or Nothing Documentary Controversy
23:06 to 25:50
Critique of the documentary's impact on Dele Alli and team dynamics.
“All of these lads have their own brand and whatever deals on the side that could be jeopardized by poor representation, couldn't it?”
Current Situation of Dele Alli
25:50 to 28:00
Reflecting on Dele Alli's current career status and mental health challenges.
“One of the very few, count on one hand, yeah.”
Show all 18 chapters
Understanding Dele Alli's Career
28:00 to 29:06
Exploration of Dele Alli's relationship with football and career aspirations.
“For whatever reason, I just feel like he doesn't, he doesn't love it in the way that you need to, to be able to dedicate yourself to it.”
Memorable Moments of Dele Alli
29:36 to 36:29
Discussion of iconic moments and goals in Dele Alli's career at Spurs.
“You just want to know that he's all right.”
Fan Favorites and Legacy of Dele Alli
36:29 to 42:05
Listeners share their favorite Dele Alli moments and discuss his legacy.
“but it's a happy place to escape to, you know?”
The Bromance Between Dele and Eric
42:05 to 43:39
Discussion on the friendship and perceptions of Dele Alli and Eric Dier.
Nostalgia for the 16-17 Spurs Team
43:40 to 45:08
Reflecting on the emotional connection with the 2016-2017 Tottenham squad.
“I grew up watching my team just be a complete mid-table non-entity for the most part.”
Memorable Moments and Goals
45:09 to 47:10
Recalling standout goals and moments from Dele Alli's career.
“horrible weird Ineos block in charge of their club now that seems to be on a permanent crusade to just neg everyone doesn't they?”
Dele Alli's Unique Career Arc
47:11 to 47:41
Analyzing Dele's career trajectory and his impact on football fans.
“And for morning hikes up the mountain trail, good pace.”
Emotional Connection to Dele Alli
47:41 to 53:45
Concluding thoughts on Dele Alli's legacy and the emotional responses from fans.
“Losby says, Not one memory as such, although the Palace goal was very special, It's more the confidence and the bit of arrogance that he used to play with.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Jack:Welcome back to Rule the Roost. Yes, it's one of those annoying ad read type things at the top of a podcast you're looking forward to listening to. Thanks for tuning in. Just a quick request before I start. If you want to help support the show this season, please leave me a rating on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. You can drop me a follow on Instagram at Ted Trunk. Or if you really fancy, head over to patreon.com slash RTR pod for extra episodes and access to the Discord community. All of these things really help the podcast to get discovered by more Spurs fans, and it keeps the show growing for the new campaign.
0:34Jack:Thanks for the support, and now, on with the show. Before the season even kicks off, soccer fans are already making predictions. Who wins the league? Who qualifies for Europe? And who's lifting the trophy at season's end? On Calci, America's number one prediction market platform, you're trading against peers in a live market, meaning there's no house. And as the probability changes, you can buy in and out of your position. For a limited time, download the CalShe app and use code CUP26 to get$10 when you trade 10. K-A-L-S-H-I, CalShe. Trade the beautiful game. 18-plus only restrictions and eligibility requirements apply.
1:07Event contract trading involves risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Prices, values, and available markets may differ from those mentioned. For more information, see calshe.com slash regulatory. Sierra has all the best active and outdoor brands you need. From athletic stuff, like a full-court pickup game, Swish! To athletic-ish stuff, like a half-mile stroll. Get those steps in! And for morning hikes up the mountain trail, good pace. It's a nighttime ghost choice from the camping chair. What a twist. Whatever level of active, Sierra loves it all. Head to Sierra or Sierra.com for the brands you want at the prices that let you do it all.
1:44From athletic to athletic-ish, Sierra's got it.
2:09Jack:hello everybody welcome back to rule the roost podcast hello phil how are you hello i'm excellent
2:17Phil:and Spurs is not... Is that because there's no Tottenham? Huh? There's no Tottenham. Is that because there's no Tottenham? There's always Tottenham. It's in the fibres of my being, isn't it? So I'm soldiering on Jack, you know. But yeah, a bit of a respite.
2:30Jack:I'm going to be honest. There's a couple of things we could talk about, but I sort of... I don't really want to talk about Spurs this season right now. I kind of like, you know, it's an international break. It's nice to have a bit of a break from it. When I asked you if you wanted to do a pod today, you were like, I'll find it hard not to be a doomer about stuff. So I just kind of thought, let's just retreat to a bit of a happy place. Now, I don't know if you saw yesterday, but Dele posted on his social channels one of his sort of self-motivational pieces, which was basically him kicking. He was kind of recreating iconic Tottenham goals.
3:09Jack:I think he was playing down at the Hive, like Barnett's Hive Stadium or their training ground, somewhere like that. And obviously that got a lot of people talking about Dele and it got me thinking about Dele who, honest to God, I think is one of my favorite Spurs players of all time. I will say upfront for anybody who is a Dele hater that in my opinion, when he was at it, I'm not talking about longevity, I'm not talking about that, but when he was at the very, very peak of his powers, those games when he was at it, he's one of the best players I've ever seen in our shirt, I think, like hands down.
3:47Jack:So I just thought, let's talk about him. Let's talk about him. Let's talk about nice memories. Like I say, it's an international break. I think we all need that. I think Spurs fans need a bit of a duvet right now. We can be that duvet, Phil. What say you to that?
4:02Phil:Lucky listeners. Me and you stitched together. Some wrapped in us. Wonderful stuff. Some sort of podcasting centrepiece.
4:11Jack:um how do you how do you feel about delhi because obviously i've started gushing already mate how how do you feel about him from you know your your perspective um like yeah quite wistfully really
4:22Phil:because um you know i was at that was it audi cup in um munich when he first joined so i guess it would have been his first appearance for were you yeah yeah when he nutmegged um modder yeah and i I was just, yeah, so from, you know, so sort of my own eyes, and I don't think it was even kind of broadcast. So, yeah, that was kind of the first experience I had with him, and he didn't really kind of let up until, you know, right at the end of his time here. So, yeah, as you say, just an absolutely wonderful and unique player. I think that's what's overlooked with him, right? I don't think there was anyone else really like him.
5:01Phil:I mean, you could try and sort of compare him to, I don't know, players like Gerrard and stuff like that but it just I don't know he was very he's very unique and of his of his own time I don't think he would have fit in better in a different era or anything like that I just think he was really he was really unique and supremely talented for that you know as you say short period where he was really on top um yeah I just I love him to bits I didn't actually see those videos that you you talked about um and without kind of going into at the moment anyway why he is where he is it's just you know you posted the the questions for people's memories and i just had a look through them and you know remembering times like even games which don't really register now watford at home i think it was april 2017 where that was the period where you go to spurs and it was just a wonderful wonderful time wasn't it you don't the vibes are so good in the pubs that you'd be like oh we're probably going to win today should we just stay here and have beers not in a kind of dismissive way of talking about it was everything was just so good and then going to that game i think did we win four nil that game and he just he scores that goal where he's kind of got his body side on to the to the goal about 20 odd yards out and just bends it again like it was just very very very unique right yeah i mean i'm sure there'll be
6:20Jack:a few people screaming now actually him and thomas muller shared similar what do you call it a is it around it i think something like that means like space invader you know it's like one of those german terms where they have a word for a thing right efficiency and all that um yeah so some people have compared them i mean i've i i sort of got that but i'd still never really bought it because i still always had muller down as like a more of a wing playing nippy a guy that would cut in right and yeah okay there might be both been players that could exploit space, if you like. But to your point, I honestly don't think I've ever seen a player like him in the Premier League.
6:59Jack:It was so hard to define actually what he was, what type of a player he was, what his best position was. I mean, I think it was a false nine or a number 10, somewhere between, I think 9.5, isn't it? Isn't that one of the things I'd seen him called before? And that felt about right. in a strange way he felt like on one hand he felt like a player from a bygone era right and in another way he felt like a player from 30 17 yeah he was just he had this alien like approach to so much of what he did that you know when i say like he's one of the best players i think i've ever seen in our shirt i i truly mean that and i think when i think about people who football and I've sort of said this before I said this of like Dimitar Berbatov that football is for the most part on rails right when you when you watch enough football you're like the ball's moved into this position that player is on the ball there thus the options are this or that and that's what's going to happen Dimitar Berbatov like Dele Alli I feel was so loved especially by Spurs you know Berbatov went on to United and they never really got him despite his brilliance there they never really got him like we did I don't think and I know every club's going to say that but you know that sort of maverick approach is always always going to be appreciated at Spurs and they both had just that that uncanny knack of getting the ball in a certain area or you know a ball drops over their shoulder from wide think about that Chelsea goal you know in our win at Stamford Bridge I think it's Ericsson has just sort of punted the ball forwards comes into the path of delhi just the touch and dink straight away you just think what you know like my brain wasn't expecting that at all and it just added to that like marvel that that sort of sense that you were never quite sure what he was capable of doing in any moment that i mean his his catalogue was so spectacular that you look at a goal that i think there's i think we lost the game at old Trafford when he just in a really tight space it was kind of reminiscent of his palace goal I believe he had his like back to goal he like flicks the ball over his head he had a defender behind him might have been Harry Maguire turns him and then just dinks it into the net and I think we lost that game but still the fact that that goal is like not that easily recallable because it's amongst his catalogue of just unbelievable things he did uh I just think speaks volumes about the players and I guess sort of as I say that out loud it makes me wonder is that fact that he was so hard to define and as I say you weren't entirely sure what you were going to get from him was that do you think that was like a blessing and a curse for him when you consider maybe under Maurizio Pochettino it wasn't because that was a guy who had a very clear tactical plan but also really loved a maverick right and that's why Pochettino is so beloved at Spurs and still is to this day and it's probably one of the most perfect fits we've seen at Tottenham in our lifetimes at least but when you consider a manager like Jose Mourinho coming along afterwards who has very prescriptive very on-rails approach to football somebody like Dele is you know as history has shown and as I guess narrative might dictate it's never going to go down that well would you say?
10:20Phil:Yeah and I think that's a you know that's a discredit on those managers who can't look at a player like that and think he's got everything that I would like an attacking player pretty much and you know to be able to uh you know have a system or an approach that make take you know gets the best out of a talent like that it's actually really weird isn't it that a manager might look at him and be like he's not playing the way I want to it's like you should be the playing the way he wants to right so yeah it's um it is a shame I mean and I know we kind of have this vision of delhi um and it's pochettino i do think there was a bit of a time and this is a kind of a an era of spurs that's overlooked a bit remember like and it's a very short period of time admittedly but remember when kane wanted out that summer where espirito santo was in and maybe what we probably only had two or three games or something but delhi seemed like he'd stepped up into a different kind of role as well.
11:21Phil:And then, and this is, you know, I don't know if there's much to this, but it seemed like suddenly Dele was the guy. Dele and Sonny were the guys. And then Kane gets let back into the fold, you know, after that falling out, not appearing for the first few games of the season, which is kind of weird now you think about it, right? And then to my mind, that is where Dele just kind of never really found his footing again. It's almost like he was about to step up into this more talismanic, as opposed to being this kind of like raw talent that he was about to kind of, and again, I know it's a very small sample size, but that's how I was seeing it at the time.
11:56Phil:Jokingly that this was the Dele Alli era all along. It wasn't the hurricane era. Before the season even kicks off, soccer fans are already making predictions. Who wins the league? Who qualifies for Europe? And who's lifting the trophy at season's end? On Calci, America's number one prediction market platform, you're trading against peers in a live market, meaning there's no house. And as the probability changes, you can buy in and out of your position. For a limited time, download the CalShe app and use code CUP26 to get$10 when you trade 10. K-A-L-S-H-I, CalShe. Trade the beautiful game. 18 plus only restrictions and eligibility requirements apply.
12:29Event contract trading involves risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Prices, values, and available markets may differ from those mentioned. For more information, see calshe.com slash regulatory. Sierra has all the best active and outdoor brands you need. From athletic stuff, like a full court pickup game, swish to athletic stuff like a half mile stroll get those steps in and for morning hikes up the mountain trail good pace to nighttime ghost stories from the camping chair what a twist whatever level of active sierra loves it all head to sierra or sierra.com for the brands you want at the prices that let you do it all from athletic to athletic sierra's got it and it just felt like
13:10Phil:that he he was taking the ball by the horns but then yeah it seemed like almost immediately from
13:15Jack:that point on it started to all tail off for him it's quite mental to think that now you know we're talking about you know most of these memories are a decade ago now yeah he's still only 30 years old it kind of it really shunts into again i guess into full view quite how spectacular he was at such a young age like like you say you know because he let's not you know let's not revise history on it I think he was he was lauded as a youngster he was one of these youngsters that everybody knew about yeah and this was kind of probably more in a time when I was I was a bit younger and I probably had a bit more capacity to know a bit more about football about young players that are coming up and he kind of he number one he sort of represents I think it was David Pleat wasn't it that really told Spurs you have to get this kid you have to get him and we obviously sort of managed to get that obviously five mil we know that part of the story but I think at the time sort of like you know the way it is with somebody like a Luca Williams Barnett now you were thinking well this is a player for the future right this is a kid that is going to be going to be great he's going to play in the academy for a bit and that we won't expect to see him for quite some time yeah we've seen we've seen what he's done at MK Duns very very impressive but Premier League something else and then uh you know as you were saying you saw him in that Munich game you saw him play against Real Madrid and I don't think it would have been a massive surprise to see a young player start in a pre-season kind of tournament or anything like that but I think it became clear and not even just the Modric nutmeg as brilliant as that was it became clear very quickly oh this this kid is like he's ready now like he is he's he already looks like our best player you know like it's it's it's quite unbelievable i mean i guess from that point i just yeah again it's nice things as i say it out loud i kind of think obviously we got delhi across the line but then you know we missed out on and you know i don't think ever really pushed that hard by all accounts for elise for ese and these these are all players that were linked to spurs right delhi is maybe is he like the last one of those sort of wonder kids that Spurs went for I guess some people might say Archie Gray some people might say Lucas Bergvau and let's not apply kind of the whatever it is not like recency bias but hindsight on those deals probably when we sign them Lucas Bergvau especially that was seen as something of a coup but I guess that was Spurs maybe turning a bit of a corner going back to where they were but there was a barren era wasn't there for Spurs after Delhi where we didn't really sign those exciting young players am I right in saying that?
15:54Jack:No one springs to mind
15:55Phil:no one springs to mind which I think speaks for itself right um yeah we bought young players but I don't think anyone really really cut through so yeah I mean but even comparing him to them he he he was immediate wasn't he he wasn't he was bought for the future but as you say he was he demanded just through the way he played to be included and to be one of our most important um players in that unit that we had so yeah I get a bit bleary-eyed about him when I see videos and think about him and what his career has become now to be honest it's this
16:31Jack:i think there's something of just about that that entire era i mean obviously kane and son were monsters you know they were sort of a force unto their own there were so many players in that period that were unbelievable you know erickson fatong and alder werel dembele like you know don't need to list them all we all know who who they all are um and i think there was just something about the balance of all of those players and the I guess the solidity of so many of those players the the level that so many of them were at really that I think I want to say that we took for granted at the time but I don't think we did like I remember watching those lads thinking I cannot believe they play for us I cannot believe this is Tottenham when I when I when I when I truly think about like the level that so many of those lads are at and delhi to sort of step into that company at what was he 17 18 years old i think when we signed him um and uh i guess already look at home there i mean do you think does it does it do him a disservice to say that he had that team around him and that allowed him to flourish or do you think he was dropped into that and took that team on another level through his own, you know, ingenuity.
17:48Phil:He definitely gave it a different dimension, didn't he? And I think, you know, you can't, there's probably lots of players if they had a different circumstance in and not just for Spurs across football, that if they were in the right team for them at the time, they would have developed into something that they didn't. So, yeah, I mean, just superstar quality. It's completely rare and, dare I say, kind of like strangled out the game now, it seems right just because there's no there's no margin for it there's no margin to have a player well he's pretty good and yeah all right it might be a bit petulant sometimes he might cost us and whatever but you know think you know think about the Ajax game right this is something I a point I always try and make when I'm certainly see those clips come up and and it's an anniversary on it or whatever yes Lucas Moura gets the plauders for that but I don't think that happens without Dele Alli mate he's involved in pretty much all of it certainly the two of the goals right so So he's, yeah, and I think that that's credit that I don't think he necessarily gets.
18:51Jack:Yeah, I was going to ask you if you think that a player like him could flourish in football today. And I think there's a part of me that thinks maybe in the Pep era, he wouldn't. And I guess that stands up because that's kind of when his career at the top level petered out. We can go on to some of the other reasons as to why that might be. but I do wonder now with the way in which physicality aerial presence is so so let's say exemplified in Premier League football right now at this point in time I do wonder if you drop a 20 year old Dele Alli into Spurs again right now if he'd be into Roberto De Zerbi's team if he'd actually be having a good time of it again and I'm sort of tempted to say he would be actually you know like just in the way that the Premier League is right now so let's say last season and this season onwards
19:40Phil:yeah i mean he's had a tough life delhi ali i wouldn't want to inflict this on him to be honest no no no keep him keep you stay way away from it alternate reality i mean just to say i'm not talking about 30 year old delhi i'm talking no no yeah yeah yeah but yeah maybe not but but yeah maybe it is an era thing like you say that it's um the pepification like we've spoken about before strangling the the life out football and there's just no kind of room for that maverick i don't Yeah, I mean, obviously there was other stuff going on which coincided with that era coming on. And, you know, I think with the right manager in place, he could have developed onto a different level as well and, you know, turn into a different sort of player.
20:23Phil:But it's, yeah, I get quite misty-eyed about it when I think about it.
20:29Jack:Yeah, yeah, same. I mean, one of the things that people, you know, love to bring up, and especially like the Mourinho stands, if you like there's a whole army of them on twitter and stuff is routinely you will see that video posted from all or nothing of delhi sat down in marino's office as marino says to him you know football's short it's a short career don't don't wake up in 10 years time and and regret you know regret this all going for you you know you you i think it says something to the effect you've got all the ability doesn't he and don't don't let it go kind of thing and it's often it's often done in those sort of like you know it's from those sort of like football accounts for basic what i would say for basic lads you know where it's all like marino was spot on with this one clapping emojis or you know all that type of um and i know i mean i will say that i'm not and i've said it on here and i'm not you know i'm not afraid to say i'm not afraid to spook my mind but i'm not afraid to say that like i don't have that same loathing for marino that a lot of people do i don't really sure i don't i don't particularly like him but um i don't particularly you know i don't think he is like the devil incarnate maybe as a lot of people do who uh offers birth persuasion i'm i'm fairly sort of ambivalent on him i actually find him quite a funny character if anything um but that whole thing i still find i mean there's there's a lot about all or nothing that i obviously watched it at the time but prior to it i found quite unsightly i think contributed to Maurizio Pochettino going.
22:04Jack:I think we can say that quite comfortably now from everything that we've heard out the sort of tail end of his reign and everything like that. And I also feel that a moment like that being kind of played out, especially now, I guess, and this is probably the power of hindsight, but especially now we know a bit more of the context. I mean, let's be real, right? It's not like people didn't already know at this point that delhi had had a very tough life um that he'd overcome quite a lot as a young man as a young person as a child to get to where he had people didn't know the full extent of it as he later revealed on gary and like a gary neville podcast i think it was maybe the overlap or whatever it was um but i think that whole kind of entertainmentification of somebody's life in that way I guess in retrospect is is quite grim isn't it really yeah yeah and especially
23:04Phil:given that that whole bit with Mourinho I can't remember the exact details of it but I know that Dele himself said that that was all kind of edited edited to be a certain way to feed into this idea that he's a you know a lazy maverick player who you know does what he wants and can't follow instruction doesn't train well which saying it out loud you know gets it into this kind of tropey uncomfortable areas right and that was before and you know yeah everyone knew that he's had a tough life but yeah I feel like that was um really uncomfortable viewing at the time and again as I say now that we know it was like edited in a way where you know I think was there something about Marino shouting at him during training even though that day he'd been like training really hard there was something there was some um editorial license taken with with the footage i remember that coming out i think that was in the gary neville thing as well actually but
24:01Jack:yeah just that doesn't really sit well does it i wonder and i don't know if you have any insight into how much kind of editorial control were the players allowed to exert over this because surely they've all got their own image rights and all this type of thing it it seems It's wild to me that a production company like Amazon could come in and perhaps edit a documentary to make a certain player look a certain way, considering all of these lads are media trained. All of these lads have their own brand and whatever deals on the side that could be jeopardized by poor representation, couldn't it?
24:35Phil:I suspect they had no control. If they had any control, then I imagine their agents would have been like, he's not being in it. I don't want him on it at all. Because why would you? Absolutely zero benefit. Right. So it's probably something that was baked into their contract in a way that, you know. I mean, yeah, just not to go off on a tangent about the all or nothing thing. It does feel like that was, you know, obviously that was when Pochettino left as well. But, you know, some suggestion that Levy acted because he had the Amazon cameras in there. And they thought it would be sort of a more of an interesting thing if that happened.
25:10Phil:getting Mourinho in you know that's a that's a documentary as opposed to just following
25:15Jack:Pochettino through a difficult season so I think Poch also was he put up quite a few roadblocks to the Amazon team as well which I think people say helped stoke the fire a bit or made that decision a bit easier didn't want the cameras in the dressing room didn't want the cameras at training if if if memory serves that's I think that's out in the public I don't mean I'm not claimed to be some sort of ITK or anything.
25:39Phil:Yeah, so I mean, again, it was a very unnecessary thing that we had foisted on us as fans and other of Daniel Levy's poor decisions, I think.
25:49Jack:Poor decisions from Daniel Levy.
25:51Phil:One of the very few, count on one hand, yeah.
25:54Jack:I mean, look, we'll push there at the end to sort of the happy place, but I guess we can't really go through like a podcast about Dele Alli without talking about what's going on with him right now. You know, why is a lad that is 30 years old now not winding down his career at wherever, Sunderland or something like that right now?
26:18Phil:You know, why is he not still bagging?
Read the full transcript
26:21Jack:Why is he not got more to show for, at least in a footballing sense, in a medals or whatever sense, for that ability that he had? I mean, we can blame Tottenham partly for that. But, like, why is he in the position that he's in? Because, obviously, we do have to understand that he's had, I would imagine, pretty severe mental health issues. He is wrestling with, you know, wrestling with demons that I think few of us could barely even comprehend. I mean, this is a tough one, mate. Like, there's no easy answer to this, right? Maybe that is the answer. Maybe he's staring you right, staring us right in our face.
27:07Jack:That's why he is in the position that he's in. But it just seems as though every so often we get these videos of him, don't we? Training, kicking a ball about, saying I'm going to be back. He said a few years ago that he was aiming to be ready for the 2026 World Cup. And obviously the media and the banter accounts reveled in the fact that when the 2026 World Cup England squad was announced that he wasn't on it they all you know took the chance to have a little dig about that and all that type of thing just sort of unsightly rank stuff that people come out with um I mean does it just I mean does it surprise you that he's not even I mean he's not even playing
27:47Phil:league one or championship or something it does um it does surprise me a lot as you know you say right turn up for someone like Sunderland who are you know doing much better than us at the moment So poor, poor comparison, but maybe just doesn't love it anymore. You know, it's got to be something. It's got to be part of it as well. For whatever reason, I just feel like he doesn't, he doesn't love it in the way that you need to, to be able to dedicate yourself to it. And that's not calling to question his character. I think that it's just all. Yeah, I'd love to know. Again, I'd love to know and not in a sort of tabloid way.
28:20Phil:I'd love to read a book that he writes on it. Right. And just to kind of understand it, because it is, it's this, for want of a better word, mystery. but it's just a bit of a wrinkle that I need ironing out in my sort of understanding. Because, yeah, because you love him, right? You want him to have the best career or the best life or whatever. But, you know, maybe that is. Maybe his best life and existence isn't playing football. And so he isn't because, you know, it could turn out for Wrexham or someone just to play a bit or MLS or anything like this, you know. So, you know, yeah, I feel a bit sort of grim.
28:57Phil:trying to figure it out, you know, but I still do just kind of want to know what the reason is and hopefully, you know, everything's okay with him, really. Sierra has all the best active and outdoor brands you need. From athletic stuff, like a full-court pickup game, swish, to athletic-ish stuff, like a half-mile stroll, get those steps in. And for morning hikes up the mountain trail, good pace. To nighttime ghost stories from the camping chair. What a twist. Whatever level of active, Sierra loves it all. Head to Sierra or Sierra.com for the brands you want at the prices that let you do it all.
29:33From athletic to athletic-ish, Sierra's got it.
29:35Jack:And that's the main thing, isn't it, right? You just want to know that he's all right. And, you know, I think one of the narratives that you always see as well is, again, from these sort of accounts or just people in general. certain journalists will say you know first it's such a shame to see somebody with that sort of ability throw it all away you kind of think well well well hang on like this is a lad who has had one of the pretty much the roughest starts you can have in life in in this country at least and he's gone on to play for a team that and he was pivotal to a team that had a couple of title races in the premier league has played in a champions league final and again contributed was a major contributing factor to that team reaching that Champions League final, has had 90 ,000 people at Wembley Stadium singing his name and still to this day continue to sing his name.
30:27Jack:He's one of the most beloved figures for one of the biggest football clubs on the face of the planet, right? He could walk into the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium on any single match day and he'd be mobbed by thousands of people that would just tell him similar sentiments to what we've aired here today, how much they love him, how much joy he brought into their lives. And you kind of think, is that a waste of a career? I don't know.
30:50Phil:You know, I'm not so sure about that. He achieved more than, you know, many of us, if not, you know, certainly footballers. So it's just a shame it didn't, we didn't get to see any more of it, you know, for us or, you know, just being able to kind of watch him play in the MLS or something and just score these kind of goals and enjoy himself.
31:08Jack:So you would also say probably fiscally that he's probably doing all right as well. I know it's not really about that, but still, right?
31:14Phil:Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I imagine we signed him on relative pittance, right, in terms of a contract, and then probably got, what, two or three contract extensions during that time maybe, maybe just two. Yeah, I mean, he was earmarked as a£100 million teenager, wasn't he, at one point when he was right up there, probably like 2017, 2018, and that was when£100 million wasn't the going rate for a Premier League footballer like it is now. so yeah just he must you know it's it's it's tough isn't it it is tough because it's bringing back a lot of fond memories of him you know he scored scored in what world cup quarterfinal was his debut for england yeah yeah scored in his debut against france yeah um i'm glad that i'm glad that he's still part of the club in that way i have to say like you just said about you know
32:09Jack:being like being loved by all of us i love the uh i love the commentary line as well from the selhas park that oh this young man is a sensation you know it's one of those yeah a goal like that
32:23Phil:that is like you know park football which that i don't want to reduce him to that but it's you
32:29Jack:know but it was it was one of those goals like i say you weren't expecting it at all that he flicks it over his head and volleys it into the corner of the net and you're standing up just shouting swear words at the television right because you don't know your brain can't quite comprehend what you've just seen a bloke in a Spurs shirt doing. Like it's, you know, I didn't grow up with Glenn Hoddle and stuff like that before people sort of say, you know, this is of my era, if you like, you know.
32:55Phil:Yeah. I mean, that goal at Selhurst Park, there's always a bit that I like about that is when he slides celebrating. I don't think he's celebrating in front of the Palace fans. He's just at that end. And there's one guy who's like sitting at the front, he's just like grinning because he knows, because he knows it was a class goal. unless he was like a Spurs fan he was like undercover but watch it again they're just like before we before we
33:19Jack:go over like some of you know the listeners favourite moments and stuff if you had to choose Phil what's your favourite moment really of his career
33:28Phil:it's his pass at Ajax to Lucas Moura for the third I don't think any other player can do that in that tight in that scenario in that tight space it's incredibly unique the little dink yeah the little kind of reverse path into Lucas Moore's path.
33:45Jack:I think, do you know what the funny thing is as well? Is that like, I don't, I don't actually really remember the goal. But I just remember the feeling, the last North London derby at White Hart Lane, I'm pretty sure he broke the deadlock and then Kane scored like maybe a minute or two later from a penalty as well. and it was you know it was iconic because I'm pretty sure that was the first time we finished above them in the Premier League for a very long time it was that game that actually sealed the fact we were going to finish above them in the Premier League I'm pretty sure it was that game that sealed us being in the top four so qualifying for the Champions League the next season and obviously it was the last North London derby at White Hart Lane we'd seen so much pain inflicted on us down the years by that lot that when it mattered as we did all season uh at the old white heart lane we stood up and we just it was it was just a performance from spurs that like we're so not used to uh in the modern era really which was uh not today like this is this is our home this is our this is our story today not yours it's not it's not your lot's time to come and like have a laugh at our expense and I guess for Delhi to be sort of one of the people that was a part of that to score that goal and all I remember literally from that point on I think it was just early into the second half and I just remember pretty much the entire half everyone just singing the Delhi Alley song just full blast and White Hart Lane just being like it just insane what just those and I know I know people do get kind of bleary eyed about our White Hart Lane and I know yes on certain days it was quiet it was as quiet as the new stadium and all that type of thing but i still look anyone anyone that had been to the old ground knows exactly what i'm saying in that we've had some we've have had some good evenings at the new stadium and everything but there was something about the old white heart lane those days when it was just like on it it was just on fire and you would just hear you'd hear chance just i don't know it would just take you to another place i mean take me back I know, but, and that, just that sort of memory, that sort of thought of like Dele being there, being a part of it, being a part of what I think we thought at that time was going to be, in the next few years, we're going to win the Premier League and we're going to shove it down their faces.
36:10Jack:We're going to open up this great big new stadium. We've got players like Dele Alli, Harry Kane, Son Hyun Min, and we are going to go and win the Premier League. And the sky's the limit for Tottenham under Maurizio Bocchettino. And obviously it didn't work out that way, but in that moment, that's how it felt. And that still kind of means something, you know? And I know it's sort of clutching at straws, but it's a happy place to escape to, you know?
36:35Phil:Yeah, yeah. You can't let things, you can't forget how good those times felt just because the things that came after it changed the context, or let the things that came after it change the context because they're still valuable. It's the same thing with like Ajax, right? We didn't win the final, but that doesn't detract from how good that semi-final was. It's the same thing.
36:53Jack:The high of that final goal was unlike anything, you know? Unlike anything.
37:02Jack:So from Blue Sky, we've had Ian and Ian Spur, so the goal against Crystal Palace is his favourite. Kelly Wells has said his flick on the... So towards the tail end of his time at Spurs, remember West Ham when he sort of fell over on the touchline and still managed to get the assist by kind of flicking the ball when he was on the ground. That was quite something. What have we got? All killer, no filler says, his goal that I celebrated the most was the second equaliser against Chelsea in the FA Cup semi-final in 2017. I remember thinking in that moment that the trophy had our name on it. Alas, no.
37:43Jack:I don't remember that goal. Do you remember it?
37:46Phil:No, not off the top of my head.
37:47Jack:I remember his goal against Chelsea, the opener, in that, was it a semi-final that we lost to them, wasn't it? And he did that flossing celebration and there was all discourse out the back of it, like did Dele Alli over-celebrate and all that type of thing. After Ericsson put in what was probably one of the best assists I've ever seen a footballer make in the lead up to that goal. I mean, this is a game that we haven't even touched on, which is bonkers really. Aaron says, putting two past Cristiano Ronaldo era Real Madrid. I mean Real Madrid won the Champions League that year but we absolutely humbled them that night at Wembley didn't we just unbelievable
38:27Phil:yeah I watched it recently it must have been again sort of an anniversary of it but I watched it recently and sort of forgot that Dele scored two goals in that game because you know it all becomes a bit of a blur between that and the Barcelona game obviously the rest of the same sort of time but yeah for it to be him that does it
38:46Jack:incredible stuff Forza Bahab says the goal that he's celebrating against Chelsea so that was in the 3-0 when he goes over and cups his ear to I think it's like Matthew Harding or something like that isn't it and you can see all the gammon apocalypse in the in the crowd there Palace goal, Arsenal in the League Cup as well what a beautiful goal that was, another one trap and dink wouldn't it wonderful, wonderful stuff Curler against Watford, goal against United the flick over do you remember this one a flick flick over Everton's defence assist for Kane do you remember that one
39:24Phil:no I don't remember not off the top of my head either
39:26Jack:I don't remember that one I mean one of the sort of lesser goals I think it came from an assist from Kane was that day at Wembley when we battered Klopp's Liverpool and I think that was like the moment that Liverpool decided they were going to turn into turn into Liverpool but I remember I think Kane whipped one in and Dele maybe hit it first time bit of a Tom Huddleston type type goal really going along the floor. Joe Scaramanga says, the gif, the waving gif from Milton Keynes, which we all loved him.
39:56Phil:I think, on the side to that, I think Charlie Parrish, friend of the show, was the person who videoed Sky Sports News clip of him doing that and it went viral off of that. He'll tell us after he's listened to this, but I'm pretty sure. Give him his props, yeah. I mean, obviously, he wasn't the one that filmed it or, you know, put it on Sky Sports News, but he filmed it off the TV.
40:19Jack:He wore a full latex Dele Alli costume and waved.
40:24Phil:Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's down to him that got it a bit more of a tension.
40:31Jack:So Charlie's got the Dele Wave and I think is it Flav or Thelonious that's got the Dolphin for Nasser Chadli? One or two. Simon Doyle says his goal against Arsenal at the Emirates, a nonchalant flick of the outside of his foot, lobbing Petr Cech. I was actually at that game. That was very, very, yeah. It was just lovely. So nice. Giving it the 2-0 to the Arsenal fans as well when they chucked that bottle at him. It was good. This is a nice one. Gary Sussex says, the two headers against Chelsea. And he says, because Chelsea, and I also remember I sent a message to a mate after the second saying, I love him.
41:13Jack:I still do.
41:15Phil:Yeah, that was... That was a home game, wasn't it? Was it the same season? Because I think, yeah, me and Charlie Parrish were at that game. Again, another shout out for Charlie Parrish.
41:23Jack:I was going to say, do you want to get him on and replace me or something, mate? This is a good time to say that we're doing a podcast.
41:32Jack:Almost sort of textbook, like carbon copy of one another. It was a textbook. Yeah, yeah. That's one of those misappropriated analogies, isn't it? They were good. Who else do we own here? let's see what else we've got what else people have said i mean that probably covers it all but yep who is a priest says not making modric twice in pre-season before he exploded you could say that was the explosion um sneers morges says ix assists times two watch them for the genius and the bromance with eric that was a nice moment in time wasn't it those two yeah do you think we all sort of there was a lot of fanficing around those two wasn't there I mean a lot of people sort of saying Eric's gone on and he's become a bit more sophisticated and he hangs out with Toby Alderwell and drinks red wine and Delhi never grew up and all this sort of thing and then I'm fairly certain and this might have even been after Delhi left that Eric Dyer was like yeah we're still like really good pals this was talk a lot but it was nice Paris people
42:38Phil:yeah go on
42:39Jack:yeah go on you were going to say about the parasocial stuff just weird parasocial um projections onto people isn't it it's just it's a strange old strange old thing it's a tottenham thing says buzzing for this episode what a player never had a player been so truly spurs even his post career is almost parallel to what's happened to the club that's pretty that's a sharp that's a sharp one isn't it that's a oh do you know what i mean that's a little uh you know they say that feeling when ooh sort of thing your nana would say ooh someone's just walked over your grave you know that's what that feels a bit like doesn't it yeah painfully true but yeah it's a Tottenham thing said Chelsea 16-17 Chelsea away 17-18 Palace goal Chip versus Scum we really didn't realise how lucky we were I mean it was it was it was hard to wasn't it because as I was saying at the top we had so many players who were so good in that era that it's almost like you couldn't you didn't have enough love to give out you didn't have enough excitement to give to them we still did and that's why i still go on about them all the time but you just it's one of those that lot it really is one of those you had to be there moments isn't it really and i still get it's still one of those things i remember getting into an argument with my mate scott who's a man united fan at the time just being like i just don't understand it like they didn't win anything this team didn't win anything it's like but mate like i didn't grow up watching my team win the Premier League every other year.
44:07Jack:I grew up watching my team just be a complete mid-table non-entity for the most part. We don't process football in the same way. I've said it so many times on here, but the whole 16-17 team is just so perfectly the Bill Nick quote. Do you know what I mean? The echo of glory. The failure will have an echo of glory. It's just that lot to a T.
44:37Phil:in response to your mate it's the romanticism of it isn't it it's the romanticism partly the fact that we didn't actually win we didn't get over the line like you say so who cares what you
44:48Jack:I mean look at it now like the last few years Man United are still as much as we talk about being abject they've won loads in the past decade or so right they don't enjoy it do they they don't enjoy it because there's nothing there there's nothing there's no heart to anything no soul to anything that they do now and that's why they're also miserable also because they've got that horrible weird Ineos block in charge of their club now that seems to be on a permanent crusade to just neg everyone doesn't they?
45:18Phil:They're but for the grace of God don't they? Well maybe that is our route anyway let's not get into that
45:23Jack:JB says there's too many to mention but I believe his goal at the Bridges must stand out technically and artistically perfect but my favourite goal must be the one he scored at Everton. The control and finishing one move was a thing of beauty. I love that kid. SPW Man About Town says, there's many, but overall, his sheer joy of playing for Spurs. I met him away from football briefly. He's a good lad. That's nice to hear. Tom Bennett is assisting the Champions League semi-final. Such a clever touch at that moment. I mean, look, it's just... So the goal away at Chelsea was a dire assist. Sorry, Eric.
46:05Jack:Michael says, my memory is hazy on specific games. Most will say the Chelsea ear cup, others the Palace nutmeg or the Ajax assist to Lucas. Honestly, my favorites were when he was just hanging out, incredibly beloved like no other. Sorry, it's like we're reading him a eulogy, isn't it? But it feels like that in a way, which is horrible. but I just there are there are so few players really that it seems so crazy to say in that like harry kane has been like one of the most significant figures at the club but like maybe it's maybe it's because his arc doesn't have this look i'm struggling for a better word to say but this sort of tragic ends to it that maybe it doesn't feel as like emotionally raw but there's something i feel quite choked up like you're saying like being yeah talking about delhi I feel kind of like I really do love that kid.
46:56Jack:You know, I think he's just like, I'm just so thankful for like the fact he was ours. Sierra has all the best active and outdoor brands you need. From athletic stuff, like a full court pickup game, swish, to athletic stuff, like a half mile stroll. Get those steps in. And for morning hikes up the mountain trail, good pace. It's a nighttime ghost choice from the camping chair. What a twist. Whatever level of active, Sierra loves it all. Head to Sierra or Sierra.com for the brands you want at the prices that let you do it all. From athletic to athletic-ish, Sierra's got it. And I got to watch him.
47:34Jack:Just such wonderful memories of watching him play for this football club, which, I don't know, sort of feels like a type of privilege, doesn't it? Yeah. Losby says, Not one memory as such, although the Palace goal was very special, It's more the confidence and the bit of arrogance that he used to play with. He had a proper swagger about him that this lot currently don't have. I mean, let's not go into this lot at the moment. You can do that some other time. Stuart Trier says the first goal he scored for us against Leicester was sure we'd never see him after we signed him from MK Dons. And then he was instantly in the side and unstoppable.
48:13Jack:James, the two goals against Real Madrid, the confidence and arrogance of which he controlled the pitch that night at Wembley. it was like he was playing at a level above this is a lot this is you know jersey spurs has chelsea at home till 2-0 a complete performance and i thought we were going to win the league god i think we all did do you know i mean i think we all did um i mean just lots of incredible amazing memories and a great player and look you know we can only hope that he can go on and do something i guess just in a in a sort of speculative just getting your opinion kind of way mate what sort of level do you think he was truly at you know let's think 16 17 17 18 there's kind of like really really peak probably 18 19 as well really really peak delhi right like you said you know at one point he was called like a future hundred million pound player right
49:05Phil:well that's what it would cost to get him out of spurs at that point i believe it was do you i mean
49:09Jack:i guess do you we can sit here and talk about him this way do you think non-spurs fans would would talk about him this way like do you think no because he rattled them and they can't see
49:21Phil:through that and you know he he's one of those players that love sort of taking the piss didn't he so I don't think anyone's sort of warm to him in that sense and you know given this kind of response to the way his career's gone I don't think there's any kind of love loss I mean there's someone in the comments saying he's a waster to to your call out for memory so you know that that speaks volumes no no one no he didn't it just doesn't seem like any other fans like um from other clubs um have any kind of positive feelings towards him if they even kind of think of him at
49:57Jack:all which is really really a shame what level do you reckon he was at me you know when we let's let me find out the thing there's that famous graphic isn't there how many goals he scored
50:08Phil:compared to like Gerrard and Lampard right yeah again it's very hard to kind of compare him isn't it because what I said at the top he just feels like and maybe this is my sort of rose tinted glasses and just because he played for Spurs and stuff like the he's always felt like he was very
50:25Jack:hard to compare to anybody else so Delhi sort of Delhi had 75 club goals for Spurs at 22 years old it was a milestone that Lampard didn't hit till he was 26 and Gerrard didn't hit till he was 27 that's kind of one of their uh Dele Alli better than Lampard and Gerrard and Beckham combined this is an old article from the BBC um come on where is it where's the stats where's the stats babe come on I can't find it but I mean just even those names it just it doesn't feel right to
51:01Phil:compare him to them. I'm not saying he was a better player than them, but he was unique. I just keep coming back to that.
51:07Jack:This is the stat though. Dele Alli with 40, and this was, when was this? This is 2017. Dele Alli 40 has been involved in as many Premier League goals before turning 21 as Frank Lampard, Steven Gerrard, and David Beckham combined. You know, just, I think it's not so much to compare, even though that's literally what I'm doing. It's more just to say just quite how sensational he was. As the commentator said, this young man is a sensation and he really, really was. And I just say again, if he does want to continue playing football, if he is looking for another club, if that's what he wants to do, then let's hope he can.
51:51Jack:And I dare say he will have and that club will have a good number of Spurs fans rooting for him and for them if he does get it. but it's hard to and like you say it feels kind of grim to speculate but who knows who knows what the future holds for him but what it will hold for him is always a special place in the hearts of many Spurs fans as is evidenced from the response we had from this pod so is there anything more you want to say Phil? Anything you want to add on it?
52:19Phil:No I think we've spoken very well about him I am a bit choked up though
52:23Jack:which I didn't expect Do you think you know 16-17 all that Chink will ever see it again in our lives that level of love that level of just excitement i mean we're sort of getting on a bit now but let's talk about it more when a spurs sense as opposed to through our sort
52:39Phil:of lens people will experience that again as spurs fans but we'll be experiencing it for a second time and the first time's always the best in it jack yeah do you know i mean it would just be like all this we are like us being the ball bag saying this was like harry kane and deli alley and just like, shut up, shut up, Grandad. I'm 58 years old. Shut up, Grandad.
53:01Jack:Shut up, you old nonce. Hang on. It was something different in my day. No, it didn't. I didn't know you'd been to Munich for that Cardi Cup game, by the way. Creep. How many steins did you have while you were watching the game? Quite few. Quite few. They're lethal, aren't they?
53:18Phil:Fat old bratwurst as well. And I had a big lunch. Yeah.
53:25Jack:Bit of blue for the dead. Good times.
53:31Jack:Phil, appreciate you. Appreciate Dele. It's time to go and have a cry in it, I think.
53:37Phil:Yeah, yeah. Just stare out the window. Much love.
53:43Jack:Bye-bye. Bye-bye.
53:49Bye-bye.
53:55We are going to be lost for you. We are going to be lost for you. We are going to be lost for you.
From the publisher
With the international break providing a welcome respite from the current Premier League season, Jack and Phil hit pause to retreat into a happy place and talk about one of the most uniquely brilliant players to ever wear a Spurs shirt: Dele Alli.
Sparked by his recent training videos, the duo take a misty-eyed trip down memory lane to celebrate Dele's alien-like talent and his unbelievable highlights reel. From the jaw-dropping flick and volley against Crystal Palace to his dominant brace against Real Madrid and that impossible Ajax assist, we recount the moments that made him a genuine sensation.
We also tackle the complex narrative surrounding his career. We re-evaluate his infamous interaction with Jose Mourinho in the All or Nothing documentary, arguing that the editorial narrative feels unnecessarily grim given the immense personal hurdles Dele has overcome. We push back against the "wasted career" tag, celebrating the fact that despite his struggles, Dele achieved more before turning 21 than many do in a lifetime, cementing himself as a beloved icon for an entire generation of Spurs fans.
Finally, we read out a massive selection of listener memories and ask whether the sheer romanticism of that 2016/17 era can ever be replicated.
Theme is Ghost Cat by Gillen
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