In short
Tottenham Hotspur’s current managerial crisis under Thomas Frank, argued as a mismatch for Spurs’ identity and a symptom of deeper club misalignment (playing style, director of football, and ownership). The hosts debate whether Frank should be sacked immediately, whether Ryan Mason could be a better short-term option, and why the club lacks a clear “Tottenham way.” They also preview an upcoming match vs Bournemouth, expecting dull counter-attacking football.
Guests (hosts)
John Bass and Frank (referred to as “Frank out” by the other host). No other named guests appear in the transcript.
Key claims
Frank “gaslights/negs” the club by repeatedly emphasizing Spurs are bad without a plan; his football has “no plan” and relies on negative tactics (example: Sunderland game, clinging to a one-goal lead). The club’s hierarchy is misaligned: Ange to Frank is a flip-flop; director of football/ownership strategy is unclear; youth pathway failures contribute (example: Noni Madueke at Arsenal). The solution proposed is a reset and/or bringing back Mauricio Pochettino.
Notable examples
Pochettino’s first Spurs era (club pride + aggressive front-foot football); Sunderland match; Harry Redknapp-style “gaslighting” positivity; Bale/Modric minute-management; Noni Madueke leaving Spurs’ academy; Spurs-linked Porto striker (too expensive); Semenya/transfer talk; Bournemouth counter-attacking approach.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VODebate on Frank's Position as Spurs Manager
1:52 to 6:26
A deep discussion on the pros and cons of Frank's management at Tottenham.
“John Bass, welcome back to Ruler's podcast.”
Exploring Tottenham's Challenges and Future
6:26 to 14:00
Discussion on the broader issues facing Tottenham and the management structure.
“And when you complain about that, there is a bit of a pushback from some people.”
Football Philosophy and Club Structure
14:00 to 16:40
Discussion on the alignment issues within the club's management and philosophy.
“and the type of football he wants to play.”
Ownership and Leadership Issues
16:40 to 19:48
Exploration of the club's ownership and its impact on performance and strategy.
Managerial Changes and Team Performance
19:48 to 20:58
Debate on the effectiveness of Thomas Frank versus potential interim managers.
“the the tip of the pyramid isn't he right now of issues but we know where this all leads back to We know what the foundation of this, we know what the base to all of this is.”
Managerial Changes and Team Performance
22:14 to 22:52
Debate on the effectiveness of Thomas Frank versus potential interim managers.
“Like, I know it sounds super depressing, and this isn't me, like, really defending him, just really sort of trying to be objective and just say, like, look, we aren't picking up points.”
Critique of Director of Football Role
22:52 to 25:58
A critical analysis of the director of football's role and its impact on club decisions.
“I do feel like with Mason, it could really turn and go completely berserk because I do think we are actually quite shit.”
Yearning for Pochettino's Return
25:58 to 28:00
Discussion on the possibility and implications of bringing back Pochettino as manager.
“Just loads of big Aggie South American players.”
The Case for Pochettino's Return
28:00 to 42:00
Exploration of the potential benefits of bringing back Mauricio Pochettino to Tottenham.
“And I do appreciate, yeah, there are pitfalls there.”
Analyzing Spurs' Current Situation
43:32 to 48:20
Discuss the uncertain direction of Tottenham Hotspur and player acquisitions.
“So, you know, Happy New Year and all that, eh?”
Show all 12 chapters
Debating Player Transfers and Expectations
48:20 to 51:27
Reflect on missed opportunities in player transfers and current team dynamics.
“He's a Spurs-type player and he would have been great.”
Promoting a New Podcast and Social Media Presence
51:27 to 53:33
Introduction to a new podcast that covers light topics and social media updates.
“because that's just kind of what the manager does with us right now.”
Transcript
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1:32Jack:Robby wants it back from the bay, it's Robby! He's lashed it in for 1-1! Ten minutes left, and what a finish that was! From the Dutch forward, to send the away end into delirium. John Bass, welcome back to Ruler's podcast. I'm going to ask you right now up front, I want some chest beating I want spittle flying out your mouth Frank out? Yes? No?
2:03Jon Bass:I'm fully Frank out now I'll make this nice and direct and simple
2:09Jack:I've had enough it's time to go
2:13Jon Bass:yeah mate I've really been trying to resist the urge to do what what I was afraid would happen or what I'm always afraid will happen with a new manager which is we just don't give him enough time right and understand the logic of you got to give somebody time and you know making sure that we don't just you know go too early on someone that could potentially be a really good manager right and then people always use that yeah but look at me remember when potch was there and then there was that harry kane aston villa goal and that taint that turned things around there's a there's a ton of reasons why um giving people time makes a lot of sense there's also a load of evidence that actually if it's the wrong person it doesn't matter how much time you give them in fact that can even be more damaging right if you if you stay in that scenario and where I've kind of landed mate the reason that I'm kind of realized that I am actually Frank out is and I posted this to you know a little bit of um fracker let's say on on Twitter was basically that I think there's like two elements to being a successful spurs manager that you have to have and one is the kind of the character the man the sort of embodiment of like all the things that you believe in and then there's your style of football and the results with that style of football on the pitch and if you look at kind of potch he got both of those things right he understood the club he was proud to be the manager he would always defend us in the media he you know there's that famous image of him at the old water lane looking up like to the gods and being kind of really proud of being there and the way he talks about us now right sort of demonstrates how much he loved the club and then he played front foot aggressive attacking football so that to me was like a good combination and then you had Ange who I think was also a good statesman always defended us kind of in the main publicly right he made a few mistakes the ear cupping thing at Chelsea and the Man City thing not understanding that but generally speaking I thought he was a good statesman of the club and kind of and kind of saw that we are this great old club with these great traditions and we've won a lot of stuff and we should be proud of that and I think he was proud to be our manager.
4:19Jon Bass:And at the start, his football was also the right thing. It was a really aggressive front foot football, which is why he got a lot of grace. He got a lot of grace when things weren't going well on the football side, because he really understood what it was about. And then when we get to Frank, you know, having been an avid listener of Rule the Roost, as you know, I've heard you talk many times recently about him, Frank, basically sort of gaslighting us and negging us as a club right as a as a man i'm not saying this is a like he's not not a nice person he's a he's a bad man because he isn't he's a nice he's a nice man he's a nice person he's a respectful person but i don't think he embodies what you need to embody to be successful at spurs i don't think he it's it's not just a big club mentality it's it's a specifically tottenham thing you need to understand where our heads are as a fan base and what we find important and what we cherish and then that combination of that sort of meek attitude alongside the football that is basically there is no plan um it's just a recipe for disaster and so my concern is the longer that this goes on the harder and harder it becomes to rectify it uh with the next person so for me i'm trying to see this is like we've got to we've got to reassess and basically get either find someone who can come in very, very quickly now and just handle it to the end of the season until we can get someone back.
5:43Jon Bass:I would, like yourself, like Poch to come back. I think it makes a lot of sense. But I'm open to other people, right? But they have to be, they have to fit that mould of those two characteristics of what I just laid out. And for me, it's a case of like, the sooner he goes, the better, because I think we just need to accept the fact that it's not going to work. Or we just see him as the interim and start planning now for who is our next manager. because I cannot see a world where this turns around because the football and the mentality of the manager, I just don't think will ever be a fit. And I think it's unlucky and I understand why the club thought it would be, but I think we're seeing now that it's clearly not going to work going forward.
6:23Jon Bass:And so, mate, I'm ready to say enough's enough. It's time to go.
6:27Jack:It's funny, isn't it? Because I almost feel like he's made the step up and he's actually doubling down on his bobbins credentials he's you know he's not taking the step up and being like right that's it I'm going to embrace this yeah okay you know I've been a teacher before I was a Brentford coach and now I'm I've been a Brentford manager and I haven't really won anything but I've got my opportunity now I've worked hard for this and I'm going to show the world that I'm ready as you say kind of like Pochettino did you know I think Pochettino had probably a slightly more noteworthy career than Frank had, but they were comparable, I think, you know.
7:07Jack:Espanyol, Southampton. But Frank is just, you know, I mean, I'll be interested to know what you make of this, mate, because I feel that, you know, Frank in pretty much every press conference now is coming out and saying, you know, he's just said something the other day about the fact that we can talk about the grand old name of Tottenham Hotspur and the things we've won before, but then there's a reality of what we are right now. And when you complain about that, there is a bit of a pushback from some people. So why are you so rattled? Can't you handle the truth? All he's telling, you know, all he's doing is telling the truth, which may or may not be true.
7:50Jack:But is that what we want to hear from the figurehead of the club, the manager, the most media-facing element of the club, if you like, consistently parroting this message that we're useless. What does that say to the players who are playing for us right now? What does that say to the fans that are charged the most amount of money, or at least among the most amount of monies in the country, to come and watch their team play football? You know, where's the inspiring message behind that? And also, like, equally, I would get it. if you know if he kept saying we're terrible we're useless fine if you're following that up by saying but we've got a we've got a plan in place we're going to change that things are going to be different we're not even getting that we're you're just kind of getting this self-preservation from him and it's sort of to your point mate i agree with you that he just doesn't feel like the right fit i am i'm genuinely actually shocked by how pitiful this reign of his has been i knew it i I knew it was not going to be pretty.
8:54Jack:Don't get me wrong, right? I knew Ange's kind of John the Pragmatist words would come back to haunt us to a degree, right? I was expecting this to be more Mourinho-ish, if you like. Spurs will hover around the top eight, will be pretty unpleasant to watch, but will be decent enough. And we'll see kind of glimmers of hope there. This is, to me, it's like the Sunderland game again was abject. I can't remember who it was that said it. Somebody made a very good point on Twitter that was the way Spurs played in that first half against Sunderland shows you that the team is capable of more than what we see consistently.
9:36Jack:The second half against Sunderland was by design. That was by Frank's design. And it just is not good enough. It is not good enough to be manager of Tottenham Hotspur and cling on to a one goal lead at home to Sunderland. I don't care how much money they've spent. I don't care how many kind of puff pieces people can write about them to lavish praise upon the fact they've bought a whole new starting XI and they've done all right in the Premier League. It's Sunderland. It's Sunderland. Like, we're Tottenham Hotspur. And I'm not, I might sound like a wobble-headed, foaming-at-the-mouth simpleton, but I support Tottenham Hotspur, and I'm not going to allow this manager to convince me that we're awful.
10:23Jack:I'm not going to allow outside voices to convince me that we are entitled for thinking that Spurs are better than this. I know we are. I know, like, where we are right now is similar to the period of time in our history, which was the late 90s, early noughties, where we were pathetic. And it's always held up as Spurs being absolutely awful. it was aberrative of us as a club it was terrible it's one of the worst periods in our history hence why we're always talking i think people talk about the like late 90s early noughties in starker terms than they do the 70s when we were relegated you know it's seen as a real stain on our kind of on the club's history we're back there now under this guy and it's you know i mean i'm sort of waffling i'm kind of coming across as like an alex jones tim foil hat i'm not gonna let them tell me otherwise are we entitled john do we just need to like suck this up and take it and take frank's words even if we don't like to hear them or you know as i say is it negging is it
11:27Jon Bass:what's going on you know yeah so may look that there's i think with this topic that there's so there's so much to unpack in in what you've said and so much of it i agree with i think the thing is there isn't a there isn't a magic bullet answer right isn't like if you just change this then it all goes back and actually yeah we're amazing and it's just him right there's layers to the things that are going wrong i guess my my overall view with with frank and how he's approaching it is it doesn't matter if the reality is that we're shit your job is to make us good and so unless saying we're absolutely shit is going to make us good i don't want to hear it i don't want to hear the reality that we finished 17th it's not your job to to comment on how badly we did last season your job is to do well this season I don't really understand the sort of point of framing things in a negative way which like you said is it can only be self-preservation I can only be re-driving the context and the narrative to support why you might not be doing well rather than just getting on with it and trying to do better and again this leans into the the sort of man side of it right and again I don't want this to sound like I'm sort of assassinating his character i'm not saying that these in within themselves are bad characteristics they just don't match what we need right what we need is someone like ang who's like yeah we're gonna we're gonna try and win the league like i'm gonna build this team we're gonna blow everyone away we're gonna score loads of goals that's what football like that's what i want that's what i want as a fan i want a manager to come in and go yeah i'm gonna try and win the league because that's what you should be aiming for every single club should be aiming to win the league now realistically there's a handful of teams that can do it but i don't want to hear that that's this literally that's the point of sport if everyone just said well we can't do it there'd never be any you know shocks in the fa cup there'd never be any surprise teams winning tournaments it would never happen you wouldn't get a greece winning the euros because you'd be like well we can't win it you know look at look at the size of our population the quality of our players can't win there's no point is there this that's what sport is is empowering you to dream and overachieving based on that through intangibles.
13:33Jon Bass:And to me, that's what I think is a bigger issue with the football club. And this is why I was saying it's layered, right? So let's park Frank for a moment. Are there issues with the playing staff, the squad, injuries, and then just the quality of players we have available? Yes, there is. There is definitely a quality deficit we have from where we want to be and the prices that we pay for tickets and merchandise and all the other stuff for what we're seeing on the pitch. That is true. There's a frank issue, which is what he is getting from those players and the type of football he wants to play.
14:04Jon Bass:Then there's a director of football level issue, which is like setting the structure of what we're trying to achieve from a manager and therefore the players, right? Because we had, we were told, and this is, I think, a wider football issue. You have a director of football, they set football operations, they decide the way we're going to play. And then you can just plug and play managers. they'll just play fit on the players that we're buying well how do you go from Ange to Thomas Frank that makes absolutely no sense on this way of thinking so they need to be looked at because for me this is an absolute disaster in terms of what you wanted to do if our previous manager was like Frank and that's what they want to do and then we brought in Frank and it's not working fair enough but they've just completely flip-flop on different styles and then you go a level above director of football and you go to you know what was Levy and now is the Lewis family and Vinai the sort of ownership and leadership of the club and the entity, what are they doing?
15:01Jon Bass:What do they want? What are they actually setting as the structure? And I know it's an extreme example, but if you think about Barcelona as a club, as an entity, you know they play 4-3-3. They have done since Joanne Cruyff was there. Same with Ajax, right? He stamped his identity on that club, and that's the way they play, and they want to be possession, and they want to win everything all the time. That's their like philosophy of their club. And you can point to other clubs who have that, like those set philosophies that they want to do. I want that, like our ownership to say, we want to win stuff.
15:37Jon Bass:We want to win the big trophies. We want to be like winning the league, winning the Champions League. That's what we want. I want the director of football to go, okay, how we're going to achieve that is we're going to play attacking, like exciting football. That's what we're looking for. Like high possession, like quality technical players. that's the type of players and the profile that we're looking for and we want a manager who wants to manage players and a club that wants to be that and then you buy players who fit that system i think in all of those steps that i laid out nobody is aligned not a single step of those departments are aligned and you can even throw in the youth academy like the the sort of tie between the quality players we are producing as a club and getting them into the first team like there are there are players now playing for our biggest rivals in arsenal like noni maduake he came for our academy he could have played for us he could be playing in our squad right now and we just didn't find a pathway and we've got absolute garbage in our team so there's there's a real problem across all of those levels of the club that until and that starts from the top for me until they come out and go okay we want to win everything and we're going to put our money where mouth is um and we're going to get people in who can do that i would honestly be firing langer i'd be firing paratici i'd be firing frank i'd be doing a complete clean sweep vinoy's lucky to have his job as well if i'm honest like that the whole lot needs to be
17:04Jack:ripped up and start again i love it john napalm it all burn it all down
17:12Jack:i'm doing that in the uh apocalypse now why not in the anti-semite way
17:17Jon Bass:just to clarify that yeah um but yeah but i honestly man i know it sounds really extreme but i'm like it's a mess it's such a mess that at this point it's like okay fine let's just clear the decks and start again like paratici's gonna go to furentina langer like to me he's just a scout of young players that's what he is like he identifies good young talent he's not a director of football and so i just don't i really don't understand where i don't even feel like he's comfortable with that right he's not he's he seems awkward in these scenarios we've
17:50Jack:all been in those jobs haven't we where you know you get hired to do this thing and you focus on it and then the boss will be like oh we're doing a conference this weekend are you happy to come and just say a bit about what it is that you do and how you're leading this part of our operation you sort of like uh um am i am i what hang on i thought i just sort of sat here and plonked away on my keyboard as it were um yeah i i don't know mate i forget the name of him we spurs have been linked consistently with that striker from porto i've seen it yeah and and it sort of seems to be coming through today that they want too much money for him his wages are going to be too high and i'm just like it's enic it's enic again you know they've it is early days let's let's wait and see shall we but the noise is already 6th january are that we're not really close to any deals whether that's a case of them being uncertain over frank or not i don't think is enough of an excuse really they've bought themselves a bit of time a bit of goodwill by getting rid of daniel levy they've managed to sort of pin a lot of the blame on him but here we are again club seems like a mess seems pretty directionless we haven't come out straight away into the January transfer window no matter how difficult it is buying players getting somebody in that can add breathe life into this squad that's clearly flagging that clearly isn't fit for purpose it's just a rinse repeat of what we continue to see and it's it's getting harder and harder to picture a future of this football club that is overwhelmingly positive whilst Enoch the Lewis family whoever they are are still in charge of it um it's just the same conversation over and over again and this is the thing like Frank yep he is he is kind of the he's the the tip of the pyramid isn't he right now of issues but we know where this all leads back to We know what the foundation of this, we know what the base to all of this is.
20:04Jack:And it always goes back to Enik. It always goes back to the people that have owned the club for two plus decades now who were in charge of Daniel Levy for that time, really. Yeah, I know it doesn't really work out as cleanly as that at all times, but as we've seen, when they've wanted to get rid of him, they've had the power to do so. So, you know, I don't know, mate. It's a strange one. Ryan Mason's been sacked this morning. Do you think a half season under Ryan Mason could be any worse than keeping Thomas Frank in charge of the club?
20:42Jon Bass:The thing is, with Thomas Frank, the one thing I will give him is like...
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22:17Jon Bass:We are just picking up points, right? Like, I know it sounds super depressing, and this isn't me, like, really defending him, just really sort of trying to be objective and just say, like, look, we aren't picking up points. We're not going to be... I mean, we could, you know, to quote Mick McCarthy again, we could be in a relegation battle, right? Like, it could go really sour. At the moment, I feel like he's so boring that that just probably wouldn't happen, right? We'll end up just being horribly mid-table. Win one, draw one, lose one, repeat. And so that will just give us enough to just limp by.
22:53Jon Bass:I do feel like with Mason, it could really turn and go completely berserk because I do think we are actually quite shit. I do think we actually have a lot of muck in our squad that needs cleaning out. And so whilst I'm not in love with the idea of watching this hellscape football, I feel like the better option is to just ride it out with him which is horrible because I want I don't really want to watch this anymore like it's driving me mad but I actually think the sensible thing is to just ride it out with him unless it does really turn right and it starts to get like relegation does become an issue but if it doesn't assuming we're just mid-table horrible fodder you just ride out with him until the summer and get potch and then you again we hope that the Lewis family the Enoch rebrand actually spend some money but we still have all the other issues I guess that at least you have at least you have a a manager and not just a manager but someone who understands the club who will have a direction who will have a passion for what we're trying to do who does understand it and so can potentially lean on whoever is doing you know the director of football stuff to get what he wants because I'd quite like to if we're now living through the 90s Jack I'd quite like to go back to fucking off directors of football I think that it's the biggest con that ever happened to the game like no middle management less middle managers accountants get them out like no I'm not interested in it's ultimately the best job you could ever get it's basically going I've never done anything in the actual game I just know about stuff and data and that and I'll pick up the phone and do a few deals and then I'll decide like all the stuff that managers have spent years learning and building and cultivating and just go no here's a player and then you just manage the player no they've got the managers have a complete understanding of their squad and their players and their strengths and weaknesses and they go right what i need is a player like this the director of football should just be a broker of deals if you need one right it shouldn't it was previously done by like the chairman or like the ceo what why do you need them i honestly i I think it's a bit mental.
25:03I think we should go back to statesman-like managers
25:09Jon Bass:who have a philosophy of what they want to do, and you hire them based on that philosophy, and you then go and sign players based on that. The problem is the game's just gone into this director of football's job where they're responsible, but they never get fired. They're there for years. And numerous managers, they've signed the players. You know, back in the day when a manager would sign a player and it wouldn't work, they would take responsibility for that, right? And they would be the one that would be under pressure as a result of signing a bad player. Now they're under pressure and they're not even in control of the players that they're signing.
25:42Jon Bass:That just makes no sense. I never understood it, but I've had to accept it because that's what modern football has told me is the best thing to do. I don't think it is. And I think we should just get rid of it. We should get rid of directors of football and bring back Potch and ask him if he wants to sign and just try and build a new squad around that. Just loads of big Aggie South American players. Go on. Yeah. Just go to war every week. It'd be brilliant. Just getting stuck in, just smashing people to bits, high press, aggressive lumps. It'd be quality.
26:12Jack:Crying. Throwing an arrow up front. Crying when we do well. Do you know what I mean? Bring it all on. Give it all to me. Emotions. That's what I want. I don't want someone who's like,
26:20Jon Bass:oh, yes, they're a good team and we did okay and just calm. No, I want him losing his head. I want emotion.
26:26Jack:Did you see Frank's latest thing today when he was asked, you know, Tell did well against Sunderland. Are you going to play him against Bournemouth? And he basically went on this point about, well, you know, we'll need to assess how Bournemouth are going to play and blah. Mate, mate, like, it's just...
26:45Jon Bass:Just gas him up. Just go, he was fantastic. What player? Do you know who was good at that? Harry Redknapp. He'd just gas players up and they'd go in going, yeah, I'm quality. Like, this is great. Or he'd gas him up knowing he wasn't going to play him. Yeah, yeah, I mean, that was a shocking miss, to be fair. But you know what I mean? Like, he would always be like, oh, yeah, he's a fantastic player, but we need to protect him. We need to manage his minutes because he's so good that, you know, we can't have him overrun. You know, like the way he did with Modric, when Modric was getting a bit of stick, and sometimes, you know, sort of play him out wide, or sometimes he wouldn't start that often.
27:17Jon Bass:And he knew how to... Bale as well. Bale as well, right? And, like, there are a number of examples of other players where he would just manage the perception, but it was typically positive. and I just don't understand what Frank is doing with stuff like that it's such an easy win I thought Tell was fantastic and there's so much more to come from me what a player we're so lucky to have him you know I don't know I'm not going to tell you my team but you know he's got a great chance and really excited to see what he's going to just gas him up what is this a tap in what are you doing don't get it
Read the full transcript
27:47Jack:on Pochettino when I sort of look I definitely would like him back in summer I just I want that moment again of being able to go there, sing his magic, you know, and just feel that, feel something again watching Spurs. And I do appreciate, yeah, there are pitfalls there. I'm not completely, you know, oblivious to the fact that his, you know, let's say his managerial career has been checkered, shall we say. I think people play it down quite a bit. I think he's been better than a lot of people make out. But let's say he's not set the world on fire, has he, since he's left Tottenham Hotspur. I think that's a fair assessment to make of what it is that he's done.
28:30Jack:But I just feel that like right now, regardless of the risks, you know, he might come back and his second tenure is not as good. I think that's par for the course. I think everybody knows that might be the case because we were so utterly exceptional during his first tenure. We had such an exceptional group of players. It's highly unlikely that, you know, we are probably going to get to another Champions League final or something under him. I mean, great if we do, but I think there's more realism to the yearning for him to come back than people probably give credit for. I just see sort of consistently from the majority of people that do want him back is that they just want to feel something again.
29:14Jack:And I do think it's really important for the club to do that. I do really think it's important for the club to bring somebody in that can just bring a bit of buzz back that can at least i mean what what i would want like obviously dream scenario pochettino comes in goes one step further than he did last time he turns us around completely and we end up winning the premier league and we get all the lovely memories of pochettino doing it realistically speaking i feel that he is the person that can at least spark a bit of change he can be the martin yoll again much like it was under martin yoll where, yeah, again, we didn't exactly set the world alight under Martignol, but Spurs went from being a shambles to, hang on, there might be something here.
29:58Jack:You know, that's kind of what we became. And I really feel that Pochettino can at least achieve that for us. I think he can galvanize the core of players that we have who are talented. Like a lot of our fans like to throw Tell, Gray, Bergvall under the bus. Why have we spent all that money on those young players? I don't think it's an inherently bad thing to spend money on those young players where the club have let them down as I continue to say is not investing in the ready now players to improve the first team I do feel though that Pochettino can take a lot of those young players and make them brilliant I think Poch you imagine Pochettino getting his hands on somebody like Spence who's still who's brilliant but he's still quite raw yeah yeah I can you imagine him under under under Poch you know players like him even a player like Porro who I think is, you know, he's so-so, isn't he?
30:49Jack:And in some ways, he's actually himself quite raw, even though he's one of the more senior players in our team. I just think there's a lot of ability in our squad that perhaps needs to be unlocked. I think there are a lot of players that need to be moved on. I personally think it's promising that we've gotten rid of Brennan Johnson. I know he's given us some brilliant memories, one of the greatest memories. I know he's a very nice gentleman when you see him in his social posts or in James Madison's videos and stuff, but he's not good enough. And we've all known he's not good enough. I don't think we need to sit and revise history due to sentimentality.
31:30Jack:He is not being good enough. I know people will be saying I'm doing that with Pochettino right now, but I don't believe that's the case. I believe that Pochettino can at least turn the tide of where Spurs are. Because, look, I mean, it worries me. It genuinely worries me. And I don't say this to be superlative. I don't say this for hyperbole, if you like. I really worry about the direction of Spurs right now. They've been posting a lot of graphics the past few days of Amorim's time in charge of Manchester United, showing you how abysmal he's been. in the majority of these graphics spurs appear below manchester united in them you know we are we're not good it's that kind of elephant in the room we're not good and it's getting worse and as people continue to say and people can scoff at and people can say you're just being wobble headed about we're not going to get lucky every year we're not if we if we keep playing this way we're not going to get lucky every year all it is going to take is us falling into particularly horrible form and that just bleeding out a bit you know it and and the worst thing can happen but i think you do bring in somebody like pochettino as i say he can turn that tide and we can maybe then then think about we have two three years under poch he ends us perhaps being a fifth place finishing team again right we get to that stage then we're in that place where you can say Julian Nagelsmann do you fancy coming and being our manager now look we've shown we're going to spend money we've spent money under Pochettino the squad's in a better healthier place now everyone seems a bit happier the fans aren't booing the team off the pitch every single game like we've had a nice little you know we've had a nice little sunset under Pochettino we've put that one to bed now hopefully he gets us an FA Cup or something in that time I don't know but that is my hope for Pochettino you know it's not this blind naive hope that he comes in and wins the lot for us again because I know that the chances of us being that good again are just slim to none but it can be better than this and I think to spark that change you need that emotional connection you need that emotional spark that unites both the pitch with the fans with the club all of it again then it becomes that complete package again where we're all pulling in the same direction and I'm sorry I just don't think we get that under Marco Silva or somebody like that we get more of the same again I truly believe Maurizio Pochettino is the best appointment that we could make at this really stark crossroads we find ourselves at because Spurs shouldn't be we should we shouldn't be worrying about maybe trending downwards and maybe getting caught in a relegation fight we're one of the richest clubs we're one of the richest sporting institutions in world sport you know of course in sport but we we do have this huge stadium we do print money we do have a huge fan base you can't tell me that we should be setting our sights on we we maybe or maybe won't play mathis tell depending on how bournemouth line up or depending on what our it's just it it's just it's it's baffling it's baffling that we're in this place and i i i do think going back to enic going back to the people that are running the club it is inherently unambitious to be keeping this bloke in charge right now as we're continuing to see and yeah i don't have all the answers i don't know who steps in i don't know who's our rosinia that you know like chelsea have just brought in i don't know who our darren fletcher is you know i couldn't tell you is that do we dust off harry redknapp and get him back like people are saying i don't know if that's for me but also you know why not let's have a go i think he hasn't been managing anything for nine years but what i'm saying is there must be there must be somebody there must be somebody that can step in and just at least give a bit more life to this because it's just it's just terrible it's
35:41Jon Bass:awful it's painful i guess i'm in like there's two camps right there's the emotional view which is exactly what you've outlined. It's Poch. Even if it's not back to the glory days, it's an improvement and it's a lift and people feel better. And I actually do think people understate how well he's done because going to PSG, it's that thing of, oh, well, of course you go there and just win, but you still have to go there and win. And he did that, fine. And then, you know, the Chelsea thing, as much as we don't like to say it because he went to Chelsea and it was horrible. He did that out of spite, didn't he?
36:11Jon Bass:He was like frustrated that we didn't want him back. So he was like, well, fuck it. I'll just go to Chelsea then. and he was doing all right there by the end he'd actually turned that around and I was surprised when the decision was made that he wasn't going to be there any longer because I actually thought they started to look quite a decent side under him and then obviously going to the US so I think there's like a lot of upside to bring him back I don't believe this idea that the game has completely moved on past him that he can't now do it I just don't personally believe that that being said the other alternative which is like where my headset is we've been again we've been told we've been gaslit into believing that football's in this new space where it's all about set pieces and big physical monsters and it's not about like keeping possession just bang it long and you know get the drop downs and jewels and all this stuff right like which is like being sort of marketed is like that's new I'm like no that's just Sunday league um scaled up to the professional game and being good at set pieces that's the only way I mean like the way that we've basically been playing where we haven't scored an open play for five games you can't tell me that is the pinnacle of world football I'm just not having that as a concept so I want to know if this is the sort of Arteta ball era where big physical lumps and you play for these jewels and blah blah if that's the current like way of playing what's the next innovation right because I remember an era when this was played and it started shifting into more possession-based technical footballers who were still big right like I think of the sort of Man United triple winning team the scum team around the same time like they were big and strong and physical and quick but they were technically really really gifted and it was sort of a hybrid of physical players who could play that to me is the next thing right which is the sort of early 2000s mid 2000s where football was at its best in my opinion, was that combination of technical footballers who also had the physicality and weren't drinking 20 pints at a weekend.
38:08Jon Bass:So who is the manager now that's like 38, 40, who's playing that way in France or playing that way in Germany or playing that way somewhere else that we go, well, let's get him now and let's be the team who's ahead of the curve. Because I'd rather watch attacking football that's not quite working or that we're just undone by like you know teams are just further along than us but we can see that this is going to happen and that there's a way to play here because I feel like if you're gonna move away from going down let's call it like a nostalgia hire in Poch I don't want a Marco Silva I don't want another Thomas Frank or you know Glasner right that are basically all playing this modern version of this type of football I don't want to see that anymore mate I'm just I'm honestly sick of it I find it really hard to watch football generally in the Premier League because it's this absolute guff way of playing and there are other ways to play football you don't have to play this way so I want to see who that manager is and I would love the club to be brave enough to go and find that person and again going back to my previous point the reason that I'm pretty sure that that won't happen is because we don't know that that's what we need or we're not we're not even prepared to say that's what we want because there's no direction at the top of the club there is no clear indication of that's what we're going to do because that's the way we play like Barcelona will never play this way they will never ever ever play this way it doesn't matter if Arsenal now win the Champions League 10 years in a row playing like this they will never play that way because it's not what they do because that's their their club's ethos and their belief why can't we find what whatever ours is right it doesn't need to be as extreme as that but what is our version of that like the Tottenham way what is that what does it actually mean let's just let's talk about that and let's create that as part of our roadmap for going forward if I was the Lewis family I'd be looking into the people that have done the work with England on basically going you know whenever was the gareth barry goal 2002 right when england were were guff in the world cup and everyone was like this is we need to rip up the system at grassroots level we need to find a way to get better technical players into the england squad and there was this whole movement about playing through the thirds and technical players and england now are producing a shit ton of technical players that would have got into the peak spanish sides of the past and the peak italian sides of the past from a technical point of view so whatever they've done to go okay this is the philosophy we want to play and this is how we're going to implement it whoever is responsible for setting the strategy for that plan that's who we need to hire we need someone to sit down with you know some older players some older managers some like you know fans that have been around the fan groups the the various different like people who care about the club and identify what is the dna of this club what are we trying to do what is the emotion what is the like the the thing that we want to try and achieve as a football club what is that what is the Tottenham way let's let's describe it and let's create a plan of how we're going to make every single part of this club serve that because that is actually what's missing here in my opinion there is no clear view on what we want we just flip-flopping around going we want to be a successful football club cool everybody does what's your plan to get there and i think that's the problem we are too busy looking at like we're just too close to everything going well we're not doing well we need to do better let's get a really good manager that's not enough like we need to be thinking about this thing in a much more strategic way um and until we do that i think we're going to just constantly run into these issues so um lewis family if you're listening um me and jack are available for this consultation won't be free of charge but we are available so let us know let us know i was gonna say i'm glad
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43:16Jon Bass:You can watch the record-breaking phenomenon at home. Zootopia 2, now available on Disney +, rated PG. And right now, you can get Disney +, and Hulu for just$4.99 a month for three months with a special limited time offer. Ends March 24th.
43:28Jack:After three months' plan auto renews and$12.99 a month, terms apply. You're done on a bit of a lighter note there, John. So, you know, Happy New Year and all that, eh? Us. Us kind of... The cheery brothers. The disgusting brothers. What are they? Natural disasters. The WWE, yeah. Yeah, it's just, it's a really strange time, mate. And I think a lot of this is howling into the ether, isn't it? Because we're not entirely sure what direction the club is taking, as you say, because we don't have that clear vision outlined to us other than that really vague one that we are given. As you say, success.
44:11Jack:Great. Cool. But what is it that you want? What are we going to do? I guess it's worth just touching on very briefly. We do have Bournemouth tomorrow evening. um iraiola that was kind of the crossroads wasn't it frank or iraiola they've sort of fallen off a bit this year but they still play pretty tidy football don't they um would you have fancied him him as a gaffer or you know is it again is it just a safe bet is it a safe premier league appointment when really we should be looking to looking to find our own iraiola
44:48Jon Bass:if you like yeah i think i think i was never a big fan to be honest i was never a big fan of any of the potentials because i just kind of felt like they're all very much of a muchness and they're all very much the same type of ethos which is essentially at a smaller club where you can sit in and hit teams on the counter and counter attack really effectively right and that to me i don't watch a ton of bournemouth but when i've seen them and when i've seen them play well most of their like amazing moves are on the counter attack where they've sat in and they've broken really well right and they look amazing on on the break and that to me is like that's great and that's like one way to play but when you're spurs or man city or whoever right the sort of higher end of the table you can't do that because teams are just sit in against you and then they can counter attack you right so like you you have to have some attacking impetus and yeah i just i was never like massively sold on him I think he did a great job at Bournemouth but I wasn't like never really sold on him and I guess my concern for this game is basically if it was me I'd be like they're in shit form they're they're like not they're not the best team the world's ever seen despite having a pretty good season last season they are there for the taking let's go there and let's put it on them let's just try and like dominate them score early like get be all over them and just like relentlessly run them over because they're out of form.
46:13Jon Bass:Score early, they'll crumble. But that's not, we know, that's not what Frank does. Frank won't think about us. He'll go, how did they play? They play on the counter. That leaves space. I don't want to leave space, so let's just sit off and see if we can just draw them onto us and hopefully nick some set pieces so that we don't overcommit ourselves going forward. So I'm expecting this to be an extremely dull game because I think Frank always thinks about the opposition and I think he will think that their best chance of getting us is counter-attack, so don't press too high. So it's bleak, isn't it?
46:48Jack:It seems to be the world's worst-kept secret that it's going to be Anton Semenya's last game for them. Of course, it's against us. Are you gutted that we missed out on him?
47:00Jon Bass:Not really. Again, I think there's a dearth of actually very good footballers in the Premier League at the moment. And I'm not, I don't really, I never really got the fanfare with him. I always thought he looked like a bit of a lump who could run a bit, which is, I guess, in vogue at the moment. So I'm not massively gutted. Maybe he'll go to City and be the world's best player in two years. I personally can't see that. Would he have improved us? Yeah, because we've got nobody else. So it's annoying to not get someone who's clearly done all right in the Premier League. But I guess this is the issue, right?
47:35Jon Bass:Like I'm saying, if there's a dearth of real quality in the Premier League, then you should still try to get the best ones. And it's frustrating, but yeah, I don't know, mate. I don't really know what the answer is in terms of specific players we should be signing in terms of like, here's a short list. This is who we should sign. This will solve all our problems. Aside from if I had the money, I'd sign Adam Morton, right? Because I just know he'd be good for us, right? But in terms of left-wing attacking talent, there isn't a player that springs to mind. So yeah, I would have taken him. Of course I would have.
48:12Jon Bass:But I'm not gutted to miss out. I don't feel like... Remember when we could have signed Grealish and we fucked around and then he went to City? I was really gutted about that. Because I was like, he's exactly... He's a Spurs-type player and he would have been great. But this, I don't have the same... I don't feel gutted, basically, about it.
48:30Jack:Just one of them. It's that, isn't it? because you are looking at whatever I could imagine they'll be paying 70 mil something like that probably you'd imagine it'll be around that he he is obviously a very talented quite an exciting player but does he is he a game changer for Spurs I don't know if he is I don't look at that and think god that like you say I don't I don't look at him and think that's going to completely reverse our fortunes it makes sense for a team like City that you're adding a good player into a squad of already good players that have a set way of playing under a manager who has settled and has proven he can win stuff right it's a completely different proposition they're not looking for Semenya to come and take them up a level or to transform their season or anything like that they're looking to just add a player that they know is going to be of a certain quality that they can rely on to do a job 10-15 times a season or whatever it is however many times they play him or end up relying upon him they're just they're just operating in a completely different you know conversation to us you know they brought in somebody like marmouche cycled through him one of the most exciting prospects in europe and they're seemingly done with him already they don't really fancy him savinho another one of the more exciting prospects in world football that to be fair they have played a bit more this year but again they don't seem that asked about they're just going to keep cycling through people until they get one that sticks whereas with spurs it's a case of well we've bought them and we've spent 50 60 mil on them so we're going to have to persevere with them again maybe that's going to change we did spend a lot of money on brennan johnson and we've you know sold him on for in black and white terms of reduced fee but i know a lot of people talk about it's not actually you know you get what i'm saying it's just i don't know it's a strange one isn't it mate but it just it feels i want i want to be optimistic about it i want to go into games like bournemouth and think three points there and then we're we're you know we're back in in contention for maybe a good season that could be the spark of something but i just feel right now spurs are in such a place where it's hard to even it's hard to even like hope that we might be all right against and maybe that's a me thing i'm not saying that i'm not projecting that onto the entire fan base it does feel that way i'm just saying sort of anecdotally from a lot of the conversation i see out there within my own circle and outside of that right but it is difficult to envisage us going away to bournemouth and doing anything other than like you say, stodging out maybe a 1-0 win like we did against Palace, but more likely a draw or a loss because that's just kind of what the manager does with us right now.
51:31Jack:And it's, you know, it is what it is, isn't it, mate? But yeah, I mean, look, I hope anybody listening has at least found this somewhat cathartic because I've enjoyed talking to you about it, John. I've enjoyed kind of getting a lot of this off my chest and hearing your perspective on it. um where else can people listen to you if they want if maybe if they want to hear you not talking about football do you have a podcast for that i do mate it's funny she'd funny she'd mention that
51:57Jon Bass:um i have a silly little podcast with my friend holly hall who's a actor and comedian um we it's called man's not what and basically it's uh she doesn't know anything and when i mean it people i think people think i'm joking but like she literally doesn't know any internet memes she doesn't know any references from films she doesn't know what's going on she doesn't watch the news or anything so when i'll go oh did you hear about the earthquake that's like heading towards london she'll be like what no um so the the podcast was kind of born out of this idea that i every week try to educate her with with what's going on it's nothing heavy right we're not going to be talking about anything that's like politics or presidents or anything that's remotely actually important it's usually just like oh have you heard gregs have released a new sausage roll flavored with mints or you know whatever um so it's a bit of fun it's very much like relief it's a chance for me to not talk about spurs as you say and just um you know just chat absolute dribble and nonsense for 45 minutes or whatever we normally record for so yeah if you like you like listening to people talk about nonsense and you just want something easy to listen to um they usually come out on mondays monday morning sunday late night early monday but yeah man's not what it's on twitter instagram wherever and then yeah just follow me same at real john bass on twitter instagram tiktok now as well i'm doing a tiktok jack i'm gonna start soon just do dances and all that sort of stuff i'm not gonna do anything growing up i'm gonna try and just do all the dances and all the trends because you know i'm so young and cool um so i just thought i'd do all that really like what like the family you're gonna become yeah yeah just but just on my own um just playing different characters uh so yeah no i'm just gonna i'm just gonna so basically there's lots of things that like when we when we do pods like this right it's like quite sensible takes but also i guess it's like a hybrid between man's not what where i get to talk nonsense and football because i also think there's loads of really ridiculous things um i'm gonna gonna put a post up at some point in the next couple of days about i tweeted about it there's no more footballers with headbands specifically strikers right where's the Diego Forlans the Falcals the Batastutas the Christoph Dugarees the Juan Pablo Angels where are they where are they football died the day strikers went headband I wouldn't have thought so like that needs to come back yeah what's going on what's happened where are they where are they and they're always the sort of player who could do something a bit special where are they so it's going to be stuff like that sort of observations of things I find either A annoying which with modern football there's a lot of those or be just long list nonsense basically so I don't think I'm brave enough to do any of the dances but you never know Jack
54:40Jack:you never know you never know and where will people be able to find that mate it's just at the real John Bass everywhere so you can find me at the real John Bass
54:47Jon Bass:easy
54:48Jack:John much love mate thank you very much
54:51Jon Bass:always a pleasure mate thank you come on you Spurs
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From the publisher
Content Warning: This is a severely moany podcast.
Jack is joined by Jon Bass to pick through the wreckage of the shambolic performance against Sunderland.
But if you are on the hunt for catharsis, this is the place to find it. We discuss Thomas Frank’s dreary outlook and demeanour, arguing that he is dragging the club down and simply has to go. But we also acknowledge that the buck doesn't stop with him, even with Daniel Levy gone, where is the vision from the club's hierarchy? It feels like the same old story.
We then look ahead to the summer and debate the rumours of a Mauricio Pochettino return, weighing up the pros and cons of one last dance with El Jefe.
Finally, we look ahead to tomorrow's opponents, Bournemouth, and ask if Spurs missed a trick with Antoine Semenyo seemingly off to Man City, or if we were right to pass.
Theme is Ghost Cat by Gillen
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