Tottenham's European Joy vs. League Misery | Is Frank Safe? Relegation Fears & Old Hard Men Signings (Q&A)

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1:51Hello everyone, welcome back to Rule The Roost. Isn't this a little Friday treat Gavin? How are you doing mate? It is, yeah. I'm pretty good, thank you, yeah. I've got my Ocado shop coming later. Look at that. That's a rule the roost listener right there, man. Yeah, yeah. Discerning middle-class gentleman, Ocado shop. Love it. Both my Ocado shop and I think the Lathwaite's wine delivery's coming on the same day. Oh, mate, that's a double whammy. Have you got some nice, you know, artisanal nibbles to go with the wine? Some olives? Yeah, almost always, yeah, totally. I quite like those, like Pirello olives.

2:28Have you ever had those? Please enlighten me. Yeah, they're like these very, very chunky, like queen olives that are pissing, obviously. And they come in a kind of like chili brine. So they've got a slight spice to them. So yeah, that's really good stuff. Bring the big guns on a Friday, Gavin. I'm loving this, mate. Yeah, I know. It's going to be downhill from here. I saw, I was in town yesterday, one of my office days. with work and uh for the train back um you know i sometimes i like to have a little little beverage and a and a you know packet of crisps or something like that m &s now right it's the m &s at the at the train station they sell like and i mean these are particularly it was like four pounds fifty for a bag of like olive extra virgin olive oil fried potato crisps I know exactly what you're talking about.

3:29That is decadent. That is blimey. Come on. People are going to be wondering what the hell they've tuned into. More of this. Can we just talk about this sort of stuff right now? I'd be well up for that. I think so. I think it would be more fun. Look, I say that. Spurs came fourth in the Champions League. What do you think about that, mate? There's a lot of themes there. Obviously, that's quite a wide question. Does it show how strong the Premier League is compared to European leagues? Does it show that Spurs are playing with a mental block in domestic football? I don't know. What's the main thread you want to take from Spurs qualifying for the next round of the Champions League with no playoff?

4:21I think the main thread I want to take is that as much as losing an abject performance in the league has become a habit, I actually kind of feel like winning has become a bit of a habit in Europe because we've got a really good record over the last two or three years. It's mad, isn't it? It's a ridiculously good record, yeah. And I saw that we kept the most clean sheets during the group stage of this Champions League campaign as well. So for a team that's got an incredibly leaky defence, that just seems such a juxtaposition from how we're performing in the Premier League. I would say at the same time, I think the draw was very favourable to us.

5:03Looking at some of those games earlier on against Villarreal, for example, we didn't play that well, but we managed to scrape a 1-0 juice, that calamitous own goal. but I do feel like something there's like a weight lifted off the players when they play in Europe I actually went to the Borussia Dortmund game it's only the second game I've been to this season and there's a different kind of energy about the place although it was a little bit negative I thought that you know on the way there the the crowd really fed off the the way the team was playing it was so front foot even before the red card um it just looked like a totally different Tottenham so you know I don't to be honest think we're going to win the Champions League but at the same time I do think we've got every chance of putting together a really good cup run because the quality of opposition isn't isn't really there this season you know I draw for the next round isn't too bad and I could see us probably um probably doing something the players just seem to step up and have more belief in these kinds of games At what stage can we play another English team?

6:14Is that the so what is it is it round 16 next? Yeah it is Yeah so round 16 I never know how far it's been expanded or whatever so we've got a round of 16 then quarters I think it'd be quarters is it? We could draw an English team? It will be I think it must be given that Manchester City was the quarterfinal Yeah exactly yeah and that's where we could potentially become unstuck obviously. That's where it gets boring as well doesn't it? Let's get one of them knocked out let's have Arsenal. I want that fear eliminating I don't want the thought of them I'm not going to talk about that, I've been told off too many times lately.

6:52Let's keep it positive, let's keep it in a happy place. I mean just on a sort of fan level I have found the Champions League as I often do European football to be something of a sanctuary and I know the temptation is to draw the parallels of the league form and I think you know I don't think it's something that should be say heresy I think you know it's fine to do that it's logical to do that to examine why we might play with a certain level of freedom or whatever um in European football but just on a sort of on a sort of fan level i don't i you know after after after dortmund after frankfurt all the talk of spurs getting into the next round of champions i didn't feel compelled to really cross-examine thomas frank i didn't really feel examined to cross-examine the players i just enjoyed it i like i i've just enjoyed seeing spurs actually look quite cool because that the frankfurt performance was really good it was really professional it was yeah you know I mean, I do have to say, again, I don't like to pour water on it, but that Frankfurt team, they were awful.

8:05They were so bad, so bad, shockingly. They don't have a manager either, do they, at the moment? Do they not? Yeah, I think their manager was sacked a few weeks ago, and apparently they were on a horrible run of form, and I think you could see that. They had very low confidence. Yeah, really bad. But, you know, I've just enjoyed it, And I think it's fine to enjoy Spurs being all right, isn't it? Regardless of the, if you like, the context of the overall picture of the season. A hundred percent, yeah. It's been really nice in the same way that the Europa League run was last year as well. And I wonder if, again, the players feel that a little bit.

8:44They're under so much scrutiny in the league that, and because they got off to a good start in the Champions League as well, I wonder if they themselves have felt that, not that the pressure is off as such, but some of these games maybe have felt like free hits. I mean, it's difficult to explain to an extent because the atmosphere in Frankfurt still seemed quite intimidating. It still seems like a pressurised environment. So I think that that does also go to show that these players do have some metal. They do have something about them. You know, I think this idea of them being feckless and everything else is slightly misguided because they are all really professional players and there's some really talented players in that squad.

9:28I mean, we were sort of decimated by injury going into this game as well. This is by no means our best first choice XI. And yet, like you say, we played really well. It was really enjoyable. There's a freedom about Tottenham in Europe. And I think you've said this before. We have proper European pedigree. like we do like in comparison to lots of other teams in the Premier League we've won a lot of European trophies and that shouldn't be sniffed out I think Spurs in Europe is a is an important part of like our DNA and Spurs doing well in Europe is as well as much as you know perhaps not winning as many leagues as we should have also is you know as part of us to an extent so I think that that is you know a real a real something that we should sort of hang our hat on a bit more than we do probably.

10:14I mean, we change our kit for European competition. You know, it's significant to the club. It's something that is, like you say, a part of the DNA of the club. And yeah, you know, maybe we don't as fans or even as an institution, but still as fans shout enough about the fact that we are actually quite good at some things. And I think more often than not, yeah, okay, we've had a couple of calamitous occasions, but who hasn't really? yeah more often than not we make a really good fist of European competition yeah totally I don't want to mention the Pochettino words so early in the podcast as well but um I you know that game you know when we went out to Juventus they were a really really good side and actually we should have won that day I felt like we were just really unlucky and I think that that again like feels like a bit of a felt like a bit of a hinge point in a way um and there have been you know numerous occasions where even if we've potentially been knocked out of Europe we also have given an incredibly good account of ourselves and for a lot of you know European football fans that don't follow the Premier League closely in the same way that I don't follow necessarily La Liga closely or anything like that they probably look at that table and go oh yeah yes Spurs are there again yeah that makes sense you know they're they're really they're a proper really good English English club because in particular German teams and things we've got such a good record against them pretty much every time we go away or they come to our lane we give a brilliant account of ourselves and we often batter them as well I don't think there's many I don't think there's many kind of European sides that would fancy getting Spurs in the draw and I'm not saying that you know even your Real Madrid's and stuff you know I don't I don't think they look at us and say you know I don't I don't think a Real Madrid are like scared of Tottenham in the sense that they think Spurs are a bigger side than them but I just think we are one of those uncomfortable draws probably like Dortmund are for a lot of you know European sides in the respect that you know you can beat them equally you can see them coming to your place and embarrassing you yeah totally yeah totally I think the Dortmund comparison is probably quite a good one I think we're probably on a kind of similar plane actually in terms of reputation I think that our reputation in in the UK is probably very different.

12:35And I think probably football fandom is quite different as well, which is, you know, sometimes quite frustrating, I guess. Rent-free, aren't we? That's it. Rent-free in everyone's head. Wilson Odebeer, he had a really, really good game against Frankfurt. And he does, you know, I think he plays well in general. He does seem to play particularly well in Europe. do you think he's a player that's gonna make a few people eat their words you know he he has been something of a you know a battleground if you like for discourse yeah yeah um I've always quite liked him to be honest I know that some people have been pretty pretty down on him but he he's obviously just still so young like so much of our squad you know I think that's easily forgotten because he had that season at Burnley this is his second yes his second season isn't it with Tottenham as well I think he looks really exciting like I think he could be a really exciting forward player he is just sometimes a bit inconsistent which is exactly what you'd expect from a young winger my only frustration really is that I kind of think this with all of the younger players in the team like how much are we overplaying them a bit if he played for City then you'd expect him to make a handful of substitute appearances at this stage maybe give a really good account of himself um his confidence would be up and then maybe in two or three years he'd be a regular starter within their first 11 but I think that we put a huge amount and have put a huge amount of pressure on players like Wilson Odebeir and to be fair to him It feels like he's starting to step up.

14:23And I think he's been one of our best players over the last month, two months. He's a genuinely exciting attacking outlet. And we don't necessarily have loads of those, or at least we haven't been set up in a way that means that those players have been able to express themselves. But again, in Europe, he seems to be able to do that. I mean, Javi Siemens, right, is one of the big ones as well. And I think, Xavi Siemens, I think there's the most pronounced example of European football providing you a bit more time on the ball, a bit more time and a bit more space. Do you feel as though he is going to be able to translate that type of football to, I mean, do you back him to be able to translate that to domestic football?

15:12Because I like, just up front, I really like Xavi Siemens. I think his abundance of talent is clear to see. He's obviously very, very good. Equally, I have found him a little bit frustrating in the Premier League. I have it. He hasn't quite, you know, it's not even that he hasn't hit the ground running. It's that he has struggled to get any sort of momentum, I feel, in the Premier League. And we can look at wider squad issues as a result of that, as a knock-on to him and his playing style. But still, I think as a player that we are relying upon to be something of a sort of a linchpin, a bit of a fulcrum of the sides, at least attacking capabilities.

15:54He's probably fallen a little short, but still he's absolutely, I mean, he shows in games like Frankfurt exactly why we spent the money on him, I feel. Yeah. Yeah. And again, he's super young, right? He's like 22. I think he will translate that into the Premier League eventually I feel like when he first joined us he was trying things, like really creative things on the pitch all the time I felt like he then lost that a little bit because a few things didn't come off for him it almost maybe felt like it wasn't going to plan it wasn't going the way he expected it to coming into a club like Tottenham this was a big move for him at the end of the day I just really hope that he continues to be that kind of, or at least attempts to be creative in the final third.

16:52I just worry, again, that our current form will have dented his confidence. I think it has, actually. I think at times he himself has looked really frustrated and thrown his arms up in the air and looked a bit exasperated with how things have gone. He's also hit the post a couple of times. Sometimes he's had a couple of near misses where you feel like if he'd have scored one or two more goals, perhaps his tail would be up and things would be quite different. But it only takes two or three good performances in football, maybe a couple of assists and a goal here and there for everything to suddenly change and the narrative to change as well.

17:26He could have an excellent second half of the season. I think we're going to need him to have an excellent second half of the season as well. One other thing I wanted to say about him is that a lot of people at the moment are talking about the need for a deep lying, progressive passer. I actually see the opportunity for Madison to step into that role when he finally comes back from injury. I think we do need that person now, but also Madison has dropped deep in the past and has played in the two. I think that there is the opportunity to see Maddison and Javi Simmons on the pitch at the same time.

18:04For me, it could be quite exciting, depending on how Maddison gets back to form after such a long injury layoff. But that, for me, is an opportunity in the future that hopefully could come to fruition.

18:20So, even though I said, you know, I don't want to have a sort of referendum on Thomas Frank and everything after that, and it's not exactly what I'm going to do. I just wanted to sort of find out where you were at with him. Have you seen any positives? I think it's safe to say that barring something drastic, we probably are going to be with him until at least the end of the season. So if we're to sort of clutch at any type of straws, is there anything about what we're seeing right now from him that gives you any sort of hope any sort of green shoot at all i know it's tough isn't it like just just just for just for listeners gavin's face was like uh cheers to that one mate you know i don't know if he will be until the end of the season to be honest because i think we could quite easily lose our next four games and there'll be such a clamor for his head that it'll be impossible to ignore who who then comes in I don't know is anyone's guess but I actually I've softened on him a bit as a person I would say I don't have the same like vitriolic spittle flecked anger towards him as a football manager because I just think that he simply shouldn't have been put in this position and he shouldn't be continued to be put into this position either um he like I said this before I think that I was actually fairly enthused when he got the job.

19:55But then on reflection, an alarm bell really started ringing for me when he started going through this tough period and he was comparing it to his time at Bromby. I thought, oh no, that is your frame of reference, isn't it? It's so Tim Pot, isn't it? Yeah, I know. I thought, oh man, this is pretty concerning actually. To go from Danish youth team coaching to Bromby and then Brentford, Actually, I'm not sure that's the background that we should have been looking for. Maybe we should have analysed that in far greater detail. I think that just saying he's out of his depth, though, as well, is kind of simplistic.

20:39I think that it isn't working out, even though there is quite clearly a level of competency with him, where he would probably do a decent job at a lot of other clubs within the Premier League. his football hasn't scaled up but then was it ever I don't know I kept saying oh yeah like that Brentford team in the championship could play really good football actually but I was just parishing that from other people I didn't know that and apparently it's absolute nonsense as well like the whole the whole Spurs way of playing the Tottenham way again is something that I think shouldn't be sniffed at because it is such an intrinsic part of who we are and our culture like um you know Vic Buckingham who was the guy that I think was like Arthur Rose prodigy um went on to marriage marriage went on to manage um Barcelona um and Ajax managed Cruyff who then also himself moved into um you know the total football era and you know there's there's there's like a direct link to the kind of modern possession-based ticky-tackle way of playing football that Spurs have been a massive part of so I think that when when people kind of sneer at the idea that there is there is a distinct Tottenham way of playing I think that it's it's really parochial and it misses I think uh you know the the longer history of the club and its influence as well and and in that sense I think that Frank just isn't isn't the right fit um and you know his communication style um is is quite clearly not it's gonna sound quite grandiose but not really befitting I think of a top six or seven club there has been a bit of a shift so I guess that that diatribe really is just it's just saying I don't really see many green shoots but who knows I think like you say the club are willing to give them a huge amount of time we've got a very tricky run of fixtures if we come away from this run of fixtures with 7 points or something like that then again the narrative shifts dramatically the world moves fast your work day even faster pitching products, drafting reports analyzing data Microsoft 365 Copilot is your AI assistant for work.

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24:16Availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state. Do you think there's a weird level of him being protected by the media at the moment? because at first I kind of thought, it's just like, it's largely just sort of Ange fans, if you like, finding another way to compare the two and say, oh, you know, it was always unfair for Ange. He always kind of got mocked and ridiculed, whereas Thomas Frank is the golden boy of the media. I don't quite agree with the sort of assertion that he is somehow, you know, a figure that's heralded by the British press, but there have been a couple of examples.

24:57I want to say it was somebody on Match of the Day, maybe it was a Danny Murphy or somebody like that was talking about the need to stick with Thomas Frank and make sure that he's given the proper time and backing because Spurs need to do that eventually. And there's been a couple of other examples on Twitter of journos or football broadcasters saying similar. i mean where does this sense come from do you think it just bleeds down simply from this i don't know i find it like in you know if we just sort of i don't know to go a bit sort of pseudo analytical of the of the british social psyche we do have this kind of deference don't we uh baked into us where we see somebody who seems sensible who seems like a middle manager and we tend to have a preference towards saying he knows what he's doing let's let's let's you know let's give him some time and space because he's he's one of the adults in the room right do you do you think there could be a bit of that with with frank because i do find it quite baffling because the guy has been objectively terrible it's yeah we're talking about one of the worst spurs teams in premier league history at least yeah that's an interesting one that's an interesting question actually i i think you're probably right he does in fairness to him he has managed to remain pretty polite throughout this whole period to the press in a way that obviously somebody like ang just wasn't he was obviously a far more bellicose individual um yeah maybe maybe there is something in that i don't know i think that you're right we probably are drawn to those sorts of kind of sensible figures um you know you're thinking like the political world as well um I think that you know for ages people were saying weren't they like in terms of political turmoil let's just get the adults back in the room thank god like here come the grown-ups and that kind of like twee like nonsense and I think that um maybe there is something to that particularly after the slightly chaotic and rain I don't know it's an interesting one I think I think I think there might well be something in it but I don't think he gets a total pass though like I think he has been on the end of some pretty tough questions and he has looked kind of sort of fed up with that over the last three or four weeks I would say I think I said this last time like I was on here that he just looks physically fairly drained he does he does and yeah I almost feel like we kind of need to put him out of his misery a bit it's just is the the question always as you sort of raised earlier is just who comes in that's that's that's the the main kind of thing but i agree with pretty much everything you've said that i just i just don't think he's i just don't feel that he's cut out for it that's just that's the the main thrust of it and i think the point that you raised like when we sort of skirted around it when we talk about our sort of european pedigree we talk about and let's bleed it out further we talk about rfa cup pedigree we talk about the fact that you know in the last century the first team to win the double all that type of stuff like spurs have done some brilliant things and i think our actions as a club sometimes undermine that i think sticking with and i'm talking about like our actions as a club in the modern era our actions as sort of put forward by enig really the ownership there i don't think we act in a in a manner that is befitting of a club with our sort of history um and so we are we're sort of caught in this place aren't we where we where we will look at the media and wider figures and say oh stop giving us such a hard time we are actually a good club with loads of history remember the the campaign a few years ago was Tottenham have never won a trophy kind of thing which was just one of those I get that it was meant to be a bit irritating but I think it started to bleed through into people who actually thought that Tottenham had never won a trophy.

29:04Yeah. And it really irritated me. It really irritated me that that type of thing was perpetuated because we are one of the most successful clubs in English football history. Yeah, yeah. And I just, yeah, I think this kind of, can we eek a half-decent season out of somebody like Thomas Frank? I mean, why are we even giving him the opportunity to do so? You know, it's... Yeah. I know it feels, and again, it just feels like a total waste of everyone's time. This at the moment, that's, that's the underlying problem I've got is that at times I'm not even getting that angry now. I think there is a degree of disillusionment across the fan base because you think particularly, I know that people keep saying this, particularly when you're paying enormous prices for your season tickets or just for your, for your match day tickets, we have to give a little bit more.

30:01um I mean I don't this group of players as well that there is I'm sorry there is a degree of like fragility there because I think it's really noticeable in the way they keep trying to argue with the fan base like some players like like van der Ven and Porro in particular Vicario at times they're so in their own heads about that um and I think that for me that shows actually quite a weak mentality I think in any situation in life if you're up against it and you're being criticized one of the most powerful things you can do is to remain silent and and just perform rather than bite back rather than be defensive and for me there's a huge defensiveness amongst this team that needs to be rooted out and I get they're under a huge amount of pressure and they're young guys and and all the rest of it but um but it's become it's become commonplace hasn't it that's Yeah, yeah, yeah.

30:56I don't really see it at any other clubs on a regular basis. Whereas for us, it almost seems to be every single week, whether it's Porro cupping his hand over his ear or whatever it may be. I mean, like Mickey van der Ven literally telling a fanny of CM outside. I thought it was pathetic and it really soured my opinion of Mickey van der Ven, if I'm honest. Yeah, same. I think it's kind of come through a little bit in that I have been sort of fairly, I've always been fairly critical of him. I do think we overrate him to a degree because he is such an incredible athlete, but I'm not going to pretend he's not an exceptional player and one of our best players.

31:33But yeah, I just, you know, that sort of thing, it makes me lean more into the sense of if he wants to go, we get a good amount of money. I'm with you completely, to be honest. Yeah, like I think that there aren't many players, if any of the discord, that I wouldn't mind letting go for the right money. I don't think there's any. I honestly don't think there's any. There's some that I would be sad to see go. Don't get me wrong, again. But there are a few that I honestly, genuinely, truly think if we lost him, like we had with Kane, like we had with Son, like we had with a lot of that 16-17 team, if we lost him, we're in trouble.

32:16We need to make a real good signing. Yeah. You know, I don't know if there's any. yeah and I mean yeah it's a really good and we've also lost far better players down the years and managed to continue the only the only caveat I would give to that although we we did continue to this place Gavin that's that yeah yeah exactly yeah that's what I was gonna say yeah yeah so I'm not sure if that's if that's a valid opinion um yeah like I think that it's there's there's a huge there's definitely a huge cultural problem and I think we're really bad in the way that we treat players once they do leave the club often as well um everyone seems to we seem to rub people up the wrong way maybe that'll change so I think Levy probably did have a part in that as well there was sort of petty vindictiveness I think um there was a kind of streak of that but all in all I just do wonder if like anyone knows what they're doing at the top of the club at the moment I mean the Andy Robertson stuff like it was a transfer that I both wanted to happen but also felt was indicative of a continued sort of passive reactive approach I think that's fair and I think you can probably lump Conor Gallagher in with that as well which had we firmed up any interest on Mateta then again see also it's yeah it's that opportunistic way of of getting deals done isn't it you know yeah and it does it does make you question what the likes of johan langer is doing it's it's really it's startling it's it's it's really quite startling i mean one thing i do want to say just in case anybody's foaming at the mouth from my uh mickey van der ven admission a second ago i think there is some relevant and recent history context of a similar example of Jan Vertonghen playing under Tim Sherwood.

34:19He looked decidedly unhappy, wasn't really arguing with the fans, but still, you know, he was quite clear that he wanted to leave the club, clearly wasn't particularly happy. There was the whole leaning against the wall at Anfield thing that got everyone riled up. And, you know, He was somebody that I think most people said was a good player, but had ideas above his station and whatever. If he wants to go, he can go. A few months later, Pochettino comes in, galvanizes the squad, inspires him. Jan Vertonghen goes on to be, I think, one of the greatest players we've ever had in the modern era. So, you know, I'm not completely blind to that.

35:03And I'm not saying, God, get it. I'm having an emotional reaction to Mickey Van Der Den's behaviour. I'm not saying he's beyond redemption. I'm not saying he's useless or anything. Yeah, totally the same. And I think that things can change so, so quickly. Even if, say we've got a caretaker manager in the next month and suddenly we look like the shackles are off and everyone's enjoying themselves again and people are playing with a degree of flair, then I think that sort of changed everything. I mean, I do think as well that Jan Vertonghen was an immeasurably better defender, to be honest, than Vicky van der Ven.

35:42It's no comparison, really. Yeah, exactly. Van der Ven's much more of an athlete, I know. And he's an asset to us. That's unquestionable.

35:57I can't remember. I was going to... The main point I was going to make is, I think people sometimes under, undervalued quite how good Jan Vertonghen and Toby Older were, you know, like, you know, there was, there was, there was a lot of people being very quick to being like, it's painful to say this, but Romero and Van Der Ven are better than those. I'm less like, come on, man, they just, they're not, they're not, they're just, those two were imperious. Absolutely brilliant. But they're gone. Yeah. I mean, Toby's like long passing ability, as well were something else yeah well Jan's doing his coaching badges now so is he really yeah he started doing his coaching badges I think I think at Ajax I think with Ajax I think I'm not 100 % on that I just saw a tweet from like you know one of those we have to translate the tweet it was a picture of Jan Vertonghen in a suit going into some academy so yeah he's unless I've been AI AI slopped then uh you know there we go have you just just on a on a on a segue just before we we go into some of the questions and stuff have you seen this new uh google what's it called it's called like cupid 3 or something like that no i haven't so google have just like like last night at the time of recording released they've done this big showcase about this new kind of like gaming stroke virtual reality ai experience that they've released where you can type in a a text prompt and essentially generate a world and a character to explore which is you know we're sort of teetering we're teetering into the edge of like matrix type stuff um yeah that's pretty mad yeah if you're not saying i think it's called i think it's called cupid i think it is I actually I used to do some work with Google um can I say this yeah I think I can I think this is fine but um somebody there told me that they were going like Google DeepMind and stuff were going very much down the route of um Gemini being more of like a day-to-day um planner and like less like focused on kind of working tasks so they're saying it should be you know used to do things like book a holiday and um plan me out like an itinerary and things like that and that's where like it's it's real strengths would lie but that that in itself i think is quite quite interesting the implication is that it's just going to sort of tail onto pretty much everything that you that you do until uh you have no no thoughts of your own it's it's called genie three genie three genie three um but it does make you wonder doesn't it you know what's the future for the immediacy of it is film video games all that type of stuff basically scripted content but then where does it bleed out into are we going to be sat here being like i don't want to watch i don't want to pay to watch spurs i don't want to sit and see spurs go on genie generate me a title winning season of top of hot spur give me some ups and downs don't let me know how the results are gonna go but still let me sit back and watch that week on week and you know yeah i know that's a pretty depressing thought isn't it the thing the i would say though with any major new technology there has to be like the societal and cultural foundations for it to really develop i think that there's definitely a bubble developing at the moment anyway i imagine that some of these early adopters some of these early companies probably will crash and burn but the ai infrastructure would already be there for somebody else to jump onto.

39:47But anyway, I know it's not an AI podcast. It's fun. It's fun though, isn't it? It's better than just talking about Thomas Franken.

39:59It is a Q &A pod today, Gavin. So we've had quite a number of questions in actually. Let's start with this one because it feels relevant. We've kind of half covered it, but this will at least give us a more definitive answer. All killer no filler on Blue Sky says, does Frank have a path back to redemption this season aside from winning the Champions League or getting top five?

40:27I'm going to say no, but you know. Probably not. I mean, if it's aside from winning the Champions League, obviously if he won the Champions League, then I mean, that would change everything. Even then, would it? even then it'd be like thanks for the memory see you later mate yeah we did it to the last fella as well so you know yeah yeah yeah i can't remember who it was i saw some say something like uh you know we've got such an aversion to winning trophies we immediately sacked the manager that won us our first trophy in like 25 years um yeah no i don't think so i just don't think it's a good fit you know i just don't think it's a good cultural fit i don't think the football's a good fit and i think the fan base have turned to such an extent now that it's going to be almost impossible to win them back over it's all corners of the fan base as well that's the problem isn't it there's no real he doesn't have any sanctuary at all like i see even like danish spurs fans a bit like you know maybe they're just kind of being a bit more like you know you don't need to be so personal with him but uh yeah um yeah yeah he is shit you're right sorry um so we've got steve ferugia says would you take 18th in the Champions League I absolutely would I'm sorry I've got to say I wouldn't even give it a second thought take the Champions League and just disappear off live by the coast join some sort of I don't know monastery or something vow of silence imagine the first day of the championship season prating around the Champions League trophy at home to like Plymouth or something it'd be the strangest environment champions of europe you'll never sing that to hartlepool or whoever you know right yeah um puny trout says can we beat woolwich please even better if we beat them in the champions league but it's pretty much the only thing that comes to mind for thomas frank to save face and make up for playing boring football

42:33it's just an intrusive thought but I've I've got a slight feeling, just a slight feeling that that Arsenal game at the end of February might not be as you know, straightforward or a whitewash as people are sort of thinking it might be right now and I don't know why maybe it's just hope, maybe it's just blind naivety like my moronic tendencies I don't know but you know I feel like we we might be able to get something there at home are we at home? yeah are we a waste? yeah yeah um yeah perhaps we've got such a bad record against them over the last few seasons though but then they are the frustrating thing is it always feels like that this current Arsenal team probably aren't actually as good as the Arsenal team of two or three seasons ago, and they are beatable, but they are still better and more competent than everybody else in the league currently.