Tottenham’s Eze Frustration, Levy’s Negotiations & Academy Deep Dive with Lilywhite Rose (Q&A)

26:24And only two days later, I was heading up to Stoke for the medical to sign for them. so I'd say it's more likely that Jamie would have stayed around but even then Thomas Frank must have been given assurances you imagine by the upper echelons at Tottenham whether that be Johan Langer, Daniel Levy, Vinay I'm not sure but whoever it was would have said to him look we're going to get you somebody else and obviously we've had this very public pursuit of Eze now play out without success so the fact they've loaned out Jamie already Alfie's out on loan it leaves you to the point where they're going to have to buy somebody I think longer term Jamie is ahead of Alfie in terms of the pecking order at Tottenham and how they see those players.

27:00Jack:I hope that because we had a question from the Crumpet, Crumpet who asked, will Donnelly make it with us? And I think the thing for Donnelly, I can't say I've watched him extensively, but when I watched a bit of like Orange Cop run and stuff like that, you could see, and from everything we were hearing about it, he was one of the best players in that league. I know people will say, oh, he's only doing it at that level, but he was comprehensively one of the best players in that league that year and in that team. He's quite clearly a very, very talented player. Even just from little glimpses of the goal, the David Beckham-esque goal he scored against Manchester City in the FA Cup.

27:40Jack:It was Manchester City, wasn't it, in the FA Cup? Yeah. So, I mean, that is promising. And I guess, do you think, is there an element of this at all a physicality thing? You know, Donnelly is a bigger lad than Devine, isn't he? do you think that plays into it at all is that something of a consideration when you compare the two of them? Yeah it can do but you know It's a bit old school I know but still To play devil's advocate on that I remember Alfie Devine as a 17 year old being completely taken out by Danny Drinkwater in a un-21s match, I mean like two footed off the ground, you don't see many 17 year olds that then get up grab Danny Drinkwater around the neck and square up to him, completely ready to kick off with someone that was old enough to be his dad and was a Premier League winner at the time.

28:29So Alfie, you know, coming out of Warrington, ex-Wiggin Academy, he's very, very mentally tough and physical. Whereas Jamie, and I'm sure he won't mind me saying this, one of his dad's tricks when he was younger, Jamie was always one of the better players in his academy teams growing up and in his grassroots teams. but he didn't have that toughness in him so the reward instead of you know money for scoring goals was 10 pounds if you get a yellow card um to force him into situations that he was uncomfortable with because Jamie didn't have that natural aggressiveness in his game um so he used to get 10 pounds picking up yellow cards because it would force different scenarios and whatever and that's that's all part of building somebody that you want to then you know develop into professional footballer you need all the attributes to do it so that that that mental physicalness wasn't there with Jamie but he's definitely got it now as we've seen you know over his course of his league one last year 50 odd games whenever he played um you know many situations we have to be physically strong as a 19 year old boy 20 year old boy playing against 26 27 28 year olds who have played 300 odd games in that league and the fact that he was one of the best players in the division

29:38Jack:shows you that he's got that toughness now I just want to ask you and I don't I hope people would listen to this and take this in good faith because I'm not trying to draw you into like bashing any of our players or anything but just because obviously you are heavily invested in the academy and one of the sore points for a lot of Spurs fans I think is the lack of minutes that are afforded to academy players and everything like that that we see over the past few years at Spurs how are you like how do you perceive the development of say Archie Gray, Lucas Bergvold even Papo Matassar players like this these young promising players that we are signing from outside of the club.

30:18Jack:Are you seeing the value in that thus far, or do you think we could be still getting good value had we not dropped 30 mil on Archie Gray and we were playing somebody from our academy? Yeah, look, I think all three of those players, especially, you know, I appreciate Archie Gray was more money, but, you know, Sar for, was it£12 million or whatever, you know, what signing is proven to be and outstanding external scouting and recruitment, you know, getting that over the line the way we did. Same with Bergvau,£8 million. I mean, what a signing, you know, I think he's going to become and he's going to carry on being.

30:54Archie Gray obviously was more money, but then he paid that English tax, the fact that he was well known and on the shortlist of basically every major club. We obviously got the deal over the line when he was already doing the medical at Brentford. So I think that stands him in good stead with Thomas Frank straight away. And we've seen that, you know. Clearly, yeah. He likes him, doesn't he? He likes him. and I think that's important for him at the stage of the career he was and I think where there was some second guessing by Tottenham fans on is he worth the money and is he going to amount to what they thought he was going to.

31:20I think the fact that the manager absolutely likes him is massive for him and I think we will see a much improved Archie Gray this season. Equally, I know there is this feeling of, you know, since Harry Kane we haven't really produced anybody but you've got to remember we started a Champions League final, whatever you think about him, with Harry Winks and on that night he was our best player in the Champions League final. In my opinion, I was sat there, row one, and Winks, for me, was the best player. He was sold for£10 million. We saw Oliver Skip sold for around£20 to£25 million. So the academy has been generating some money, not as good as the other clubs, Chelsea's, Human City's, but that's a bigger issue.

31:55That comes from those clubs getting these kids at 14, 15, 16, paying huge sums of money and paying huge sums of money to the family and buying them houses and the kids and the siblings go through private schools. It's just a different operation completely to how we operate at Tottenham. But, you know, I think this year the correct decision has been made in terms of we're in the Champions League. You're going to need your strongest squad all the time. It's better for Jamie Donnelly, for Mikey Moore, for George Abbott, for Tyrese Hall, Alfie Dorrington, for all the others, Will Langshere, to go out and get 50, 55 games than get five to eight games coming off the bench at Tottenham.

32:34Whereas we had the Europa League last year and we saw that to some impact. We all remember that famous win against Elfsborg with Mikey Moore, De Molotje and Dane Scarlett all scoring and how fantastic that was. We were seeing the likes of Will Lancia scoring at Galatasaray. You know, we were going to Furnos Farros in that atmosphere and starting Mikey Moore and Will Lancia. So we saw, you know, a fair bit of the academy last year under Angie Inferno, in my opinion. We saw Alfred Dorrington make his Premier League debut coming off the bench at Southampton. But, you know, there are other signings that I think are maybe more questionable.

33:05When we signed Kinski, for example, as a 21-year-old, the same age as Josh Keeley, and we're now seeing Josh excel, as I expected him to do at Luton. We let go of him for a million pounds plus a decent sell-on. We're signing Kinski for 11. And he's very highly rated, Keeley, wasn't he? Always was. He always was. And the fact that now he's in the Ireland main squad, and the plan is that he battles with Kelleher for that number one position for Ireland. So there are some other angles you can be frustrated with. But I think the decision to loan out the 11 players this summer very quickly as well, as soon as they're back off the tour, you know, in the space of eight hours, we had all those loans lined up and they were ready to go.

33:43And they're all seemingly getting a lot of minutes already. So I know there was a question going to come in about the lack of minutes and how well these loans are planned out. But the fact that a lot of those players joined those clubs on Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, with the league season starting on the Saturday, and they all featured, whether or not they started or came on, every single one featured, tells me we have picked the right loans and we have got far, far better at finding the right loans for our young players.

34:09Jack:Because Mikey Morgan to Rangers in particular, I feel is, I know people will say like the SPL is the same level as the Championship or League One even, maybe if they wanted to be particularly disrespectful about it. But playing for a club like the size of Rangers, the pressure, the expectation, the weight of history, the size of the stadium, the support, is a massive move for a young player like that, isn't it? and he seems to be thriving so far from everything I've seen outside. Mikey is incredibly confident, has an amazing family network around him that will drive him, will support him. You'll often find six, seven, eight more family members, you know, going to watch him even up in Rangers.

34:46I've noticed that already, making the big journey up from South London. So he's got a great network around him. He's got all the tools there to thrive and I'm sure he will. We've got to remember, he is so young. It's because he's come on the scene. He literally turned 18 last week or the week before But to go and play for Rangers, as you said, 45 ,000 people or whatever it is up at Ibrox supporting him and behind him, and the expectation is to win every game you play. The only disappointment I'll say so far about Mikey Sloan is that first leg of that final Champions League playoff game. You know, I was really banking on him getting those eight Champions League games and the experience that would have been, you know, maybe Rangers going away to the Bernabeu or Bayern Munich or whatever it might be.

35:24And that experience, you know, even if you're losing those games, just being a part of that is massive. so that was particularly disappointing that they lost, I think it was 3-1 huge ask to go away to Belgium and turn that around now, obviously I'll be hoping they do but I can't really see it so that's a disappointment that he's not going to have those European games but he's got to go and the other issue he's got is that the Rangers' best player is seemingly this guy Gassama that also plays left wing so it'll be interesting how that pans out because they've got Gassama on the left wing they've brought a guy called Ant-Man on the right wing that's also very good so Mikey might have a battle to get into the team but he did start the league game on Saturday just gone got an assist as well I know it was a bit of a Tom Carroll for Gareth Bale level assist but they all count so yeah we'll have to see how he gets on but I back him to do well and I think it'll be a really good loan other than next year I'm sure he'll go on the pre-season with Tottenham and they'll make a decision is he ready to come into the team as an 18 turning 19 year old or will his former Rangers have attracted a Premier League loan they'll have to make that decision.

36:29Jack:Do you think his trajectory is still, you know, he's on his way to being a top player? Because that's kind of how he was introduced to us all, wasn't it? Without question. I think, you know, we always saw that in his first, you know, set of academy games. He was playing youth champions league games, which is an under-19s tournament as a 15-year-old. And we talk about players that have got strength and build and toughness. Mikey absolutely has all of those in London. You know, when he's not playing football, He's boxing in gyms in South London. He's a physical boy. Proper Millwall. Proper Millwall, you said it.

37:04So, yeah, with Mikey, I still see his trajectory like that. I think when he played in it, I think it was under-17 Euros, I think it was the summer before last, and he was the standout player for England in that team with Ethan Nawari. Whereas Nawari has broken into that team at Arsenal so well, hasn't quite happened for Mikey. I think he was so, so unlucky when he had that virus that let him be out for four months. When we had a lot of injuries in the team, I think that was a real door opening for him. You know, he still made 16 appearances for Tottenham last year, which is amazing for a 17-year-old.

37:35But I think he would have made many, many more had he not, you know, had that virus that brought him out for so long.

37:42Jack:And he was good value as well. That's the thing as well. And like you say, that's the thing. When he's coming on in Champions League games, you're forgetting how young he is and how rare it is for Spurs to be trusting a player this young as well with that. So it's all worthwhile context. We've got some good questions here, John. So I think this is the right time to bring up this young man. So Andy Perry has asked on Twitter, how far off first team level is Luka Williams-Barnett? Could we see him making his debut this season? And how good could he be? Okay, so we talked about Mikey Moore there.

38:20To put Luka's season last year into context, I mean, he completely outscored Mikey Moore's levels at the 18s, which were highly regarded as, you know, people were speechless at how good Mikey was. Luka then came into the side playing either as a number 10 behind a central striker or off the left-hand side and was just not only scoring, but like ridiculous goals. I'm talking like chipped goals from the halfway line against West Ham and at Cobham against Chelsea. And, you know, just obscene levels of goals and performances that were really consistent as well. Sometimes you see these sort of diminutive, skilful players and they kind of have one or two games where they're amazing and out of this world and then they have a couple where they dip.

38:57The fact that he has now seemingly just moved into the under-21s despite being an under-18s first-year player and he's then going up to Sunderland away on the back of a seven-hour coach journey up there. He's scoring, looking outstanding on the pitch, tells you a lot about him. He's another one, very, very good family upbringing around him. Spurs grabbed him from Luton at a really young age so yeah a top player and Tottenham fan as well I know there was some sort of misconception about Chelsea utter online nonsense he's a massive Tottenham

39:29Jack:fan that wants to make it a Tottenham I mean that's nice isn't it again it's like I know it's tribal and stuff but it's good to know that there are players who actually care about bleeding for the shirt and all that type of thing right yeah 100 % and Luka is another one of those so So, you know, he's got a very, very high ceiling. I think this year will be more about establishing himself in the under-21s. And I think he will, as we've seen already, they basically moved up eight players from the under-18s straight into the under-21s. So we're going to have a young team in the under-21s, but we've got a young, exciting team.

40:04And I'll just run through the eight that have moved up. So you've got goalkeeper Sam Archer, defenders Malachi Hardy and Jani Byfield. Obviously, we've seen Jani with the first team this summer. very, very young as well. You've got Harry Bryan, who's currently injured, but won the Scholar of the Year last year as a left-back. Then you've got midfielders George Feeney, Teenan Thompson on the left wing, who we saw in the first team against Wickham and got himself an assist and looked really lively. You've got Ellis Lehane up front. And then obviously you've got Luca Williams-Barnett. So there's a core group of eight that all know each other, that have played together for a number of years, all moving into the under-21s at once.

40:39And at one point away to Sunderland, I think they were 5-1 up. The game finished 5-3 in the end on Monday night, but the UN21s had a really difficult year last year, having loaned out a lot of their better players and found themselves near the bottom of the table. They've already started with a big win away from home. They've got another game on Friday coming up, up at Steven's Lamex. And obviously, if you can get to that, please do. The players always really appreciate the support of fans. But yeah, I think we're going to see a really exciting year this year. And I think Luke will be a big part of that.

41:06You know, could I see him making his debut in the Carabao Cup were we to get a favourable draw at home? Well, yeah, of course, I could see him, you know, being involved in the squad for that. But I think, you know, with the Premier League and also the Champions League this year, I think opportunities for the younger players will be fairly limited. And that's why we've seen so many loaned out to ensure they get 50 games under their belt this year. And Luka is just that bit younger. So I think for him, a season of progress would see, you know, making, I don't know, say 30 games for the under-21s, grabbing himself, you know, 10 to 15 goals and, you know, getting on the first team bench and hopefully, you know, making that debut in the Carabao Cup or something.

41:44But obviously, look, the Carabao Cup is another one where a couple of years ago, I was hoping to see a few young players play. You get Fulham away in round two. I mean, how incredibly unlucky that is. You know, you get a really top Premier League team, first, second round. We haven't even been in the second round for a number of years. So it just depends who you get. You know, if you get a favourable draw at home, then absolutely we could see some of these younger guys get a chance to make their debut.

42:05Jack:Where would you, I mean, obviously, I know a lot can change at this point, but obviously the comparisons are already being made with Luka Williams-Barnett to Max Doman at Arsenal, who is a year younger than actually than Luka, isn't he? But obviously, Doman's getting a lot of hype. There's a lot of talk that he's actually going to be integrated into Arsenal's first team this season at 15 years old. Where would you kind of benchmark Luka against somebody like Max Doman? Yeah, I think Max Doman, you know, I hate to use his word, but he's one of those generational talents that comes through every sound there.

42:39The fact that I saw a bit of Arsenal's pre-season friendly against Newcastle, and he was just running with no fear against guys like Joe Linton, that's about eight stone heavier than him, and a full international and proper Premier League player, just running it in with no fear, taking the ball past him, he won a penalty in that game off Joe Linton as well. So the fact that he was instantly making an impact, I think he won another penalty in one of Arsenal's pre-season games against the Athletic O 'Gilbao. he seems like somebody that is just going to take the league by storm if everything goes right for him off the pitch and if he's got a good network around him and that kind of stuff so I think he's on a different trajectory at the moment but equally I struggle with the comparison sometimes with one player to another, they're each on their own journey they make their own breakthrough when the time's ready to do so But the difference, you know, at Arsenal, I hate to say it, the fact they've integrated Noweri, Lewis Miles Skelly, now seemingly Max Dallman, you know, they seem to be really nailing that.

43:42And that is tough to see as an avid youth watcher of Tottenham as I am, to see how well they're doing at that.

43:49Jack:this is the thing it's that awful bit in me when i think about like you know a successful young 15 year old sort of lad who's going to potentially have a glittering career and there's that horrible little bit in the back of my head it's like i hope he doesn't make it you know it's such a such an awful way it reduces you to think about somebody on a you have to try and sort of think about on a human level good luck to the kid but also not while he's wearing their shirt hopefully madrid come in and get him or something like that get business done with the new american express graphite Business Cash Unlimited card.

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45:14Jack:This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required compatibility and availability varies 18+. um it does i was hoping for you to uh ease the pain of it there mate because i've just seen a lot of people basically saying that arsenal might have the english messi on their hands which is uh which is worrying me a bit but hey um andy perry he also said uh on this as well because i just thought this was quite interesting is who's the best academy player uh you've seen in your time since following the the younger age groups hmm yeah interesting question i mean what what i always go back to as one that I thought was fantastic when he was coming through the team and also I can't believe the way his career stagnated but we've seen interviews since and you know he had other vices away from football would be Stephen Corker it's a bit of a left field choice but you know I remember you know him in academy level games was so so dominant he then very quickly progressed into the Tottenham first team started away for us away to Lazio as a young boy kept a clean sheet there in the Europa League game got in the England set up I think he actually scored on his full England debut as well but then I appreciate that he said he had some vices with gambling and they kind of fall off from that but Stephen Corker is always one to me who had every single attribute that we now see in these modern day defenders he was tall, he was lean, he was powerful he could carry the ball, he could play a pass he was a danger from set pieces so he was one for me who not only that I think he was fantastic at youth level but also that transition and the way sort of the career hasn't pushed on as I thought it would is Stephen.

47:14Another one who looked amazing absolutely amazing at youth level was Alex Pritchard. He was sold for£8 million in the end which was a very decent sum of money but he used to be absolutely incredible and he'd score all sorts of goals and amazing to set pieces and was a really good player as well.

47:34Jack:But he came up with Kane and all that lot as well, didn't he? And I remember when we used to like when Fighting Cock used to do all like the 1882 games and go and watch all the young players it would always be the Alex Pritchard show. You would see him and he would look unbelievable. Like seriously seriously top drawer, didn't he? He still had a good career, that's the thing. He went£8 million which at the time was a lot of money. At the time he made one sub-appearance under Sherwood for a couple of minutes towards the end of the season and then we've got eight million for him so that's when the academy was doing their sales like chelsea are doing now obviously prices have inflated over time but we were selling players really well then another player from that same cane team um was adam smith and i know he goes under the radar now he still plays for bournemouth now he's got like 300 odd appearances that's an academy player that we produce and he's a solid player as well solid pro and there is a world where you think it was there any you know we talk about his lack of homegrown options now and club-trained options, was there any world where we could have kept him as a backup right-back this entire time?

48:37And he just comes in, you know, say when Kyle Walker had been injured or say when Kieran Trippier had been injured or Serge Aurieras, or as we move on through the right-backs we've had, Pedro Porro, etc.

48:47Jack:Same way we do with Ben Davis, right? Exactly that. Exactly that. And as we do with Brandon Austin as the third goalkeeper, was there a world where, you know, probably not, he wouldn't have wanted that because he looks back on his career and thinks I've had made 300 appearances, He's probably Bournemouth's all-time Premier League appearance holder. So he finishes with a decent career. But that's another player we produced that people would just kind of forget about. Yeah. I was surprised we didn't bring back Carl Walker-Peters this summer as well, to be honest. When you look at the difficulties we have with registering players, the fact that he can play right-back or left-back, was Dominic Solanke's best man at his wedding.

49:23He's obviously still very tight with a lot of the boys at Tottenham, including the new ones like Solanke. I found that slightly strange as well, I've got to be honest with you. I think it would have been the right time to bring him back and allow Ben Davis maybe to move on to Wrexham as he was heavily linked with earlier on in the window.

49:41Jack:Got a good question here from Mittal who says, what is life like for a 16-year-old who joins as a scholar? Do they have five days a week training? Do they still have some form of education? Do they live in digs? What does the average 16 to 18-year-old earn at Tottenham? Yeah. Earnings changes based on the player. There used to be a strict guideline if everybody got the same. When Tottenham lost Jadon Magomar and Sam Amo Amayor to Southampton a couple of years ago, Tottenham ripped up that strategy. And I know now they're offering scholarships to players even as young, and a guaranteed scholarship even as young as kind of under-14s.

50:19So they've totally changed their tap to match what Man City, Chelsea and other clubs are doing. That was led by Fabio Paratici when he reviewed the structure at Tottenham. So the money some players are getting is different from others. So there's not a set of guidelines anymore. You imagine the Luca Williams Barnett, the Jani Byfield, the Malachi Hardys, the England Youth Internationals are getting more than some of the others. Oliver Boast, who's just been signed from Leeds this summer for a million pounds. You imagine he's getting more than some of the others, but I don't know. The average week, so they train Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Friday.

50:52obviously have matches on Saturdays Thursdays they have a day of full education so on Thursdays it was Stuart Lewis but it's now his replacement Joe Staunton they seemingly are not there and the players go into Hotspur way and education is put on for them for a whole day and they do a full day of basically learning skills so as if you come out with football there's other pathways available for you because obviously look it's every year at that level, you're getting reviewed, you're getting reassessed and you're kind of unsure if you're being kept on. However, that has changed, as I said, with players as young as 14 now, some of them, I think there's a goalkeeper, Mikel Jack, there's this young striker, Asher Houghton, Sinclair Houghton, that I already know are on four-year deals, which is a massive, massive change and it gives them a real guarantee of longevity at Tottenham and stops other clubs from being able to poach them.

51:48Jack:with players like you know i'm just interested to know like what your understanding of the way the academy works and everything with say a player like boast i mean a million pounds is a is a significant sum of money for for a young player right you know take a take aside like an archery gray when we're talking about signing somebody directly for the academy how is the case made to get the money essentially to just to sign a player um who's that young to play academy football? I think this summer, it wasn't a kind of proactive signing, if I'm being honest with you. I think it was a reactive signing too.

52:23Tottenham had a very talented young player called Dexter Oliver, who was in the same position as Boast, or sometimes a little bit deeper as a kind of number 10. Last year, he couldn't get in the team because of Lucas Williams-Barnett's form. And I think that led to him and his agent exploring, let's not sign the scholarship of Tottenham to be part of their intake for this year. Let's see what else is on offer. And he's gone to Manchester City. He's currently going through the FA's seven-stage review because obviously Tottenham offered him a deal and didn't want to lose him. And he's chosen to go elsewhere, hence the lack of official announcement on that yet.

52:56So I think when Tottenham lost Dexter, they reacted by thinking to themselves, we played in this under-16s Nationals tournament. Who completely tore us apart? Well, it was Oliver Bost. Every parent I spoke to in that age group have told me that Oliver was the top player in that tournament. And for Tottenham to have approached him, they feel like they can get a player out of Leeds. They feel like they're above them in the pecking order, can offer more money, can offer a better deal to the family. And there's obviously a space in the team with the departure of Dexter Oliver. But as you said, yes, a lot of money.

53:28And that will be a decision made by, you know, firstly, the scouts at Tottenham will approach Simon Davies, the head of the academy. And I'm sure those discussions then happen with Johan Langer, Fabio Paratici and probably even Daniel Levy when you're talking about a transfer of around a million pounds a lot of money but the recent successes when bringing players in for decent sums of money speak for themselves you know I think Will Langshear was signed for two million pounds at a similar age which was seen as a lot of money but now he's you know starting in the championship scoring goals scored for Oxford this weekend we've seen Josh Keighley obviously joined for a decent sum of money there's another Irish boy Mason Melia who will be joining in January move delayed due to Brexit rules that he can't join until he's 18.

54:11But he's already on about four goals in the League of Ireland senior level. So that's actually worked out incredibly well that he's still there and playing. It's like a lone move, you know, when he's getting that game time. So I think Tottenham have got much, much better when recruiting for money. However, there have been some disappointments. They've recruited a couple of lads from Man City's academy that within five minutes of watching them, I think I and many of the other people that watch these academy games could tell weren't at the level of our existing players. So there are still gaps they need to fill.

54:43Like in any industry, there's always improvements that need to be made. But I think Oliver Boast is seen as, when he's a starting striker for England at that specific age group, I said, ran Tottenham Ragged at this national tournament and was highly regarded as the best player there, or one of. They saw that as an investment worth making and a gamble worth making.

55:02Jack:Halliman Tottenham says I would like to ask do the significant influences of Dan Chapman, Simon Jones and especially Simon Davis compare to John McDermott yeah totally different ideologies I think the first guy's name was Jack Chapman, he came from Southampton everything I've heard so far is that he hasn't actually brought anybody in of his recommendations so I wonder how long he'll actually be at Tottenham. Simon Davies obviously came in from Manchester City and we've seen a raft of Manchester City players join the academy that to me have all not been up to the level of our existing player base.

55:43So I also wonder there how long he'll be at Tottenham. So I think we're going to see changes again fairly soon on that front. Whereas John McDermott was there for a significant period of time, was very strict on his wage structure and principles. Obviously, that's gone out of the window, Fabio Paratici, but I think we could see a lot of changes in Tottenham's academy again very, very soon in terms of the leadership team there. So I've kind of watched this space for that one because I think there'll be more changes soon.

56:11Jack:And a sort of a follow-up question to this was, are the losses of Dean Rastrick, Chris Scudder and Chris Perkins significant in terms of youth scouting, et cetera?

56:24Chris Perkins was effectively relieved of his duties following the signings of those Manchester City boys I've just mentioned. So he was brought in, he brought those lads, he was seen as the full guy for them not being up to the required level. And Chris Perkins is no longer at the club. Dean Rastrick, who's left a highly experienced, well-regarded in academy circles and is of the sort of old school style, which can still take you a long way. So as I said, I just think there's going to be lots of changes behind the scenes at Tottenham with the academy coming up because some of those guys haven't delivered as well as Tottenham would have hoped they would have done.

57:04Jack:Let's move on for... Dan, so at Hixie Dan says, what's your planned coping mechanism for when the SA transfer inevitably falls through? And he actually sent this before the SA transfer fell through, so that's why. It hasn't come through before. Yeah, I'll give him the props. But the coping mechanism for me personally is going to just be reminding myself of how good Kudos is compared to the level I thought he was going to be. The fact that I think that he's very quickly going to be regarded as one of the best players in the Premier League. The fact that by the end of this season, if he carries on the trajectories on now, I think his market value will be double what we paid for him.

57:43And I don't mean that. I think if he carries on as he is, I think the fact that we touched on earlier, that you get the ability of two players rolled into one, I just think it's fantastic. Massive, massive point on kudos is that, amazingly, Ghana didn't qualify for AFCON.

58:02Jack:I knew they didn't, didn't they? Yeah, Pagarin. Ghana are normally one of the absolute winners to win that tournament. The fact that they haven't qualified as well. So when many other clubs are losing their players for AFCON in January, we're still going to have kudos there for what's always a massive part of the season with loads of games quickly piling up is another huge plus to him. The final coping mechanism will be that let's hope it rushes Tottenham into getting another player. But as I said, I'm not sure if Savino for 80 million, I think Savino's a good player, but I don't think he's an 80 million player.

58:33So let's see what else they can do. And I mentioned Paqueta earlier as a kind of left fielder option that I think would be very good.

58:39Jack:If we're talking 80 million pounds, like breaking our record transfer. I want it to be someone with a bit more profile. And maybe that makes me a bit basic. But I'm sure Savino is a great player. I'm just... I don't think it gives the club the same lift as even signing... Had we signed Eze, you know? Yeah. But I think there is... It sounds... Tottenham fans won't want to hear this, but I don't think you put yourself in a bad position in the market if you sort of take the cast-offs or those that don't make it at Real Madrid, PSG, Bayern maybe. You know, look at how good Asensio was for Aston Villa.

59:16They got him in January last year. I'm not quite sure why they haven't got him back yet because no one else has got him. But what a difference he made. He had a kind of like Van der Vaart-style immediate impact on that Villa team. And it lifted them, you know, into finishing as high as they did in the table. It allowed them to sell Jean Duran for 100 million or whatever they got. you know so there are market opportunities out there if you pick up from the absolute best clubs and I know you know we've not talked about him as yet on this pod but I think Paulinho is going to be a fantastic signing for Tottenham I really really do you know he's someone that buying forked out 46 million or whatever literally 12 months ago and we're now picking him up on loan with an option to buy we don't even have to buy him we could use him for 12 months Archie Gray learns shed loads off him over the next 12 months and towards the end of the season and we start filtering Archie Gray in instead of Paulina, and we just send him back.

1:00:08So there are great market opportunities there. I mean, I think Paulina will be very good, and what will probably happen is we'll agree a deal that's significantly less than the£30 million agreed price at the moment, like we saw with Matisse Tell, where it was at£50 million, and then we got him for£30 million. I think there'll be some leeway there when Paulina will be, you know, that year old next year. But there are good market opportunities to get out there if you're willing to take a punt on some of these players. You know, I don't see how Asensio, when he did what he did, doesn't get a squad role at PSG.

1:00:37I know they're stacked on the wings with Barcola and Douay and Caval Skellier amongst others. But I just think Asensio is a great player and it shows that you can get, you know, fantastic players from these massive clubs.

1:00:50Jack:Think about, I mean, I can't remember exactly who they signed him for, if I'm truth be told, but when you talk about bringing a certain profiler player, look at Wolves even bringing in an old Giaumatinho and how much of a lift he gave him. And it also, it was particularly painful because it just made me, it reminded me of the summer where we didn't quite manage to get that deal done. And it was a very, what could have been kind of thing, wasn't it? Michael at Dyer Spotless Bow says, please compare Isak getting pelters for forcing his way out whilst Kane got cheered on to leave Spurs. Is it simply because he hasn't gone golfing with Gary Neville?

1:01:29Jack:I mean, I know this is obviously framed in quite a comedic fashion there by Michael, But there is something in that, right? We definitely felt the weight of the British footballing commentariat saying Harry Kane has to leave Tottenham. It's right that he's going on strike. He deserves a big move. He's going to win nothing at Spurs, blah, blah, blah, blah. We don't need to revisit all of that. Whereas in Izak, it's unanimous condemnation. And look, I'll say up front, I think the way Isak is handling this situation is ill-advised, to say the least. I don't think it reflects very well on him whatsoever.

1:02:08Jack:But I do notice there is a distinct difference in the way these two things are spoken about, aren't they? I think the legacy those two players leave on their two clubs and what they've done today are totally different. Harry Kane is an academy boy that came through at Tottenham, became our all-time top goal scorer. England's top goal scorer did so so much for Tottenham renewed his contract for six years in 2019 with no dramas no talks of going anywhere else whilst we were playing at three different stadiums in one year and all that sort of thing I've really struggled actually even in light of how the outpouring of love towards Sonny I've seen some use as a dig at Harry Kane and I'm just not on board with that whatsoever for me Harry Kane is our greatest ever player certainly in my lifetime of watching Tottenham and gave so much for the club and I think it would have killed him you know watching us lift that Europa League there's nobody that would have liked to have done that more than Harry Kane and it's sad that it aligned like that because I would have loved to be in the bedroom and have that photo of Harry Kane lifting that trophy this boyhood club would have meant the world to him and us as fans I found that difficult Just to jump in there John as well because I do feel that was the one thing because I did sort of feel after that, you know, when everyone was like, why isn't he congratulating us on the Europa League?

1:03:31Jack:Why hasn't he done it yet? It's like, come on, man. It's because he's sad about it. It's quite obviously because he's sad about it, you know? Yeah. In a conflicted way, I'm sure he's, whatever, I'm sure he's happy Spurs won the Europa League. You know, as a fan, I'm sure he's happy, Christ, Tottenham got over the line and whatever, but he would have loved. And even when you saw Kyle Walker, he did an interview. He doesn't have that same affiliation that Harry Kane does, but he still has an affiliation to Tottenham, make no mistake about that. Go out of his way and say he would have given up one of his Premier League titles just to have been a part of that Tottenham team.

1:04:00And I remember Kyle Walker even maybe three years into his Man City stint, Tottenham were playing the semi-final against Chelsea at Wembley in the FA Cup. And he was saying, my God, I hope Tottenham get this over the line. I hope Tottenham win. They deserve it. Their fans deserve it. So Kane would have absolutely been torn at watching his boyhood club literally a year after he's left getting over the line. And for me, the Europa League is a much bigger trophy than the Bundesliga, in terms of its stature in world football. So that would have been tough for him to see. And that's why he wasn't immediately at the social...

1:04:34And he's not that character either. You have to respect people who are different. They've got different personalities. He's not a... He's not James Madison, is he? He's not James Madison. He didn't play, but has to be the main event of everything. And has to be... Put the camera on me. I'm not digging out James Madison for that, but they're just different people. They've just got different character quirks, as we all do as humans, you know? So this whole thing of, oh, why isn't he immediately uploading a load of pictures with Sonny and saying, well done, congratulations? He did it, but in his own time, you know?

1:05:05And I was pleased he did it. And I had a dig, you know, I said, well done, King. I knew you wouldn't forget about this or something, you know? Because so many Tottenham fans were bashing him and whatever. When he's done fucking loads for this club, and for years was the figurehead of this club and gave us, you know, he could go to Juventus away and score. He could lead the line for us at Real Madrid away. You know, he was fantastic for Tottenham and I find it difficult when people criticise him.

1:05:33Jack:I mean, you think it's quite simply, he's not just one of the greatest Tottenham players of all time. He's just one of the best players of all time, Harry Kane. And it's, I think it's quite hard to come to terms with the fact that we didn't win anything with him as well, right? And I think what irritates me most about it is that there's a lot of narratives that follow him of like, well, we got to lots of finals and he never scored in any. Thierry Henry never scored in any finals. Mo Salah never scored any non-penalty goals in finals. Big players get marked out of finals. Big game, like teams, opposition teams build their whole strategy around stopping Harry Kane scoring a goal in a cup final.

1:06:12Jack:It's not on him. Yeah, I'm much the same with you, mate. I might just have the odd comedic, bitter dig about it, but he's somebody I will always feel very defensive over and somebody who's undeniably given me some of my best memories in my entire lifetime as a Spurs fan. That photo of him coming off the picture on the last game against White Hart Lane when he's being mobbed is iconic to me. It's one of the most iconic Tottenham photos of all time. so you know and it's just that story will it won't ever be matched you know I saw not long ago there was that comparison made between like well it was always more exciting watching Gareth Bale than it was Harry Kane it's like that's just recency you're just focusing on the last few years where it was horrible for Tottenham at large the first few years of Harry Kane breaking through like the mask goal against Arsenal the goals against Chelsea the goals from all over the place that he would score all the time seeing this kid come through the academy me it was incredible it was it was so exciting normalizing scoring at anfield and arsenal way you know every season you know just that sort of thing just just a point you made there just iconic photos that stick with you just one i want to i've got a framed one downstairs here uh of an iconic photo it's which i always love and always think about so it's a corner sorry free kick that we score from against arsenal um when they're in that sort of cranberry kit we're under Martin Yole at this point and you've got Ledley powers in the header and scores so you see Ledley rising like a salmon to head it into the bottom corner, he puts us 1-0 up him and Dawson wheel off celebrating I think the game finishes 1-0 but the image is just fantastic so in one angle you've got Ledley rising and then next to him you've got me though basically holding Sol Campbell like that with his arms behind his backs we cannot move and it's just the most Tottenham perfect photo of all time and Ledley powering in the header just beautiful stuff I love it love it I want to there's a few questions about the Eze thing but I think we've spoken about Eze quite a lot

1:08:18Jack:here's a good one from Kirstie Fitchett who says at what point in the summer do you think the other clubs got together to make sure their owners chairmen CEOs made sure Tottenham don't make any decent signings this summer yeah I mean it does seem you know it's obviously a joke but but you can see something there. And I think, does this summer impact our future dealings with Nottingham Forest and also Crystal Palace? Two more clubs that maybe now we can't shift unwanted players to or sign their best players from. Let me ask you a minute. Do you think at all what we're starting to see? Because we've often heard, I'd say we've heard for at least the last decade now, Daniel Levy's a very difficult operator, but he's very shrewd.

1:09:03Jack:He gets the job done. So as much as the press, I think, take swipes at Daniel Levy, I think they are often very quick to praise him as well. I think it's an equal measure a lot of the time. Do you think we've sort of arrived at a point where there's been this legacy that's followed Levy, his style of negotiating, his hardballing, if you like? And do you think we've just arrived at a point where on a personality level, other chairmen just don't like him? and they just don't want to, they don't want to give him the satisfaction of, because it felt, for example, Maranakis in particular, that Morgan Gibbs-White deal felt so personal.

1:09:43Jack:It was clearly, he took it so personally. He was so wound up by the fact that Spurs had found that there was a release clause by, you know, whatever. We don't need to go over all that again. But he just seemed so personally furious about the fact that we might get one over him, get one over the club and made it his mission to get one over Spurs in return, right? Yeah, I mean, whilst you can absolutely see that line of thought, then you have to remember that Levy has been elected to be the head of sort of the European clubs board. So he is obviously widely respected in the game for his business acumen of maybe getting the best deal for clubs.

1:10:25I don't know what that European, but he's very friendly with the owners of PSG, for example, and others that are happy for Levy to be the head of that European Commission or European, you know, Chairman's Board or whatever it is. You know, and obviously they will have watched him build that stadium on very favourable rates compared to what clubs are getting now. They will have watched him, I think he's the longest serving chairman in the Premier League because I think naturally over time, you know, you've been in that role for such a long time, there is the ability to upset people and you're always the common figure there.

1:10:56You're always standing there. but I presume some of them have respect for him in terms of the side away from football and what he's done to grow Tottenham's profile and that kind of thing but I think as you said there is definitely a personal feeling with Levy and we've seen it played out so many times in the press with Alex Ferguson and Pep Guardiola making comments on it before so I think it's just part of being somewhere for so long as to why he has that reputation John

1:11:26Jack:it's been an absolute pleasure to talk to you today mate I really appreciate you giving up your time where can people follow you if they're not, I mean they're already following you but if they want to Yeah we're on X or Twitter as it's commonly known at lilywhite underscore rose and the same for Instagram as well Anything to look out for in the coming weeks at all? Yeah look I think we've got the we're going to have the Champions League draw I think that's really soon back end of August so we're coming into that now I think that will be exciting for the club and that tallies with the return of the Youth Champions League so obviously when you have those match days we'll also have the Youth Champions League earlier on in the day and that's an amazing opportunity we talked about Luca Williams Barnett and others earlier that's your chance to see where these players are really at playing against the best young players of Real Madrid or Barcelona or Bayern Munich whoever we're drawn against the fixtures match so yeah great opportunity to I'm sure those games will be on Spurs play as well so great opportunity to watch those young players see how they're getting on and make your own judgments on where they are.

1:12:24Jack:John, thanks very much, mate. Legend. Thanks, mate. Speak soon.

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