Trust Thomas Frank...We Have No Choice | Picking Tottenham's Greatest Premier League XI With Jon Bass (Q&A)

21:21Jack:Yeah, so green. USA Keeper was decent enough. Didn't have much to do. Ugh, 99 minutes. Not a single goal.

21:31Jon Bass:Well, Bet365 sure came through, though. I bet$10 and got$150 in bonus bets just for signing up.

21:37Jack:At least someone scored. Bet365. Winning is everything. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER. 21 plus only. Must be physically located in Illinois. T-S &C Supply, in-app only.

21:49Jon Bass:This episode is brought to you by State Farm. You know those friends who support your preference for podcasts over music on road trips? That's the energy State Farm brings to insurance. With over 19 ,000 local agents, they help you find the coverage that fits your needs. So you can spend less time worrying about insurance and more time enjoying the ride. Download the State Farm app or go online at statefarm.com. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

22:17Jack:let's do this. Let's do this, John. I'm going to, so I got, I got a question from David Mooney, who's actually, he's a good lad, Manchester City fan. And he, he, so he suggested that we should basically make a, the best Spurs starting 11 that collectively never played more than a hundred games for the club. now i i think that is a superb question and that's a really sort of exciting thing to do however tom foynes uh actually solved this one with the help of a spreadsheet that he has actually compiled himself amazing over the years so it's it's it's a bit of a task to do that i think off off the spot you can see at tom foynes on twitter he's he's replied to me with his team which is really quite fascinating some of the some of the players that are in there um louis saha only 10 appearances for tottenham this is league appearances this is sorry i need to cover out league appearances only 10 wow how many let me just ask you if i told you how many league appearances do you think kevin wimmer made for tottenham okay that one will be fairly low but

23:31Jon Bass:i mean it feels like it's got to be less than saha because i feel like saha played quite a bit It's not.

23:37Jack:It's a bit more. It's a little bit more.

23:39Jon Bass:That's wild. 12?

23:41Jack:It's 15. Wow. But if you'd have asked me off the cuff, like if it wasn't through the gaze of this, I would have said 20-something. Yeah, of course. You know, maybe. Another notable, Kevin Prince-Boting. Kevin Prince-Boting. Only 14 league appearances at Tottenham.

23:56Jon Bass:That's crazy. He actually ended up having an all right career, didn't he, after us? He did.

23:59Jack:He did. Did he go on to play for AC Milan? AC Milan, yeah. Yeah. Won an FA Cup with Portsmouth. scored against us in the semi-final. So there you go. But what I thought I'd do instead is that the BBC are on this flex as well. They've said in a 4-4-2 formation, could you work out the best Tottenham Hotspur Premier League starting 11? I'm also happy for us to include seven substitutes in there as well. All right, nice. Okay. well

24:34Jon Bass:it's Larissa in goal isn't it

24:36Jack:it's 100 % Larissa in goal there's nobody close right

24:40Jon Bass:I've got a solution if we're going to go for a back four we can get we can basically get Ledley Jan Toby or whoever else you want if we play Jan at left back okay yeah we can do it because he's he played a few times because it's Rose otherwise right exactly and I love I love Rose and if it's like they've got to be a left back then fine it's Rose but I want to cheat because I want to get more centre-backs in because we've got a lot of good ones to choose from. I agree.

25:09Jack:So we're saying Walker on the right? It's got to be Walker. I mean, he's probably the best Premier League centre in the right back of all time, isn't he? Definitely. I'm not having Gary Neville anymore. That's an outdated opinion, right?

25:21Jon Bass:Yeah, it's a bit retro. It's a bit rose-tinted glasses. Yeah, I'm not having...

25:26Jack:Who's that? Ivanovic at Chelsea. Maybe he might have a shout in there, wouldn't he? I just...

25:32Jon Bass:I don't see that. Like, he was really good Ivanovic, but Walker was just, like, another level. He was amazing for us, and then he's gone to City and just won it all. So, it's got to be him.

25:43Jack:Do you ever see the... As a side note, when Chelsea were having to record some sort of, I don't know, PR thing for their social media, and Eden Hazard can't stop laughing at Brunosov Ivanovic, trying to do, like, a dead read on, like, this thing, being like, please like and subscribe. before and he's just yeah it's very good very funny um it's funny because he sounds different you know i know i get it i get it you've got a funny little accent yeah let me off it's the international break we're all having a bit of a laugh aren't we all all bets are off exactly the flags are out we're getting involved we're getting involved in it so back four we're saying walker yeah ledley toby yanvertongan at left back i'll ask you this do you would you put Romero in above either Toby I'll say Jan as well Toby Jan or Ledley does Romero

26:36Jon Bass:get in above those because there are a lot of people who make the clear I think that Toby is massively and still is massively underrated because when him and Jan played we were fucking solid I would love to see the numbers of that back for the the Rose, Betongan, Alderweireld, Walker back for which I don't think played together that much but I would love to see not as much as you think anyway I would love to see how they stack up against our current back four now I know there's a whole heap of context there but I feel like we concede way more goals in this era than we did with that team and again I know there's a load of context we were in a much better place blah blah blah Romero is a fantastic centre back fantastic but I'm not sure I'd put him in above Toby just yet and that sounds mental now I'm saying it I'm not sure if I agree with that anymore

27:22Jack:well no because I feel like so let's look at it this way we're looking at Jan Vertonghen across an entire Tottenham career right yeah so what we tend to focus on is the last the second half of his Tottenham career when he was class and he was one of our best players and remains one of the for my money one of the best players center backs that's ever poured on our shirt what we do ignore is probably the first two three four years of his where people were a bit kind of iffy on him, you know, leaning against the wall at Anfield, all that type of stuff. You know, there was him trying to get out at one point.

28:00Jack:It wasn't always the greatest relationship at first and his performance levels weren't always that great. However, he came through it and went on to be super Jan Vertonghen. Now, I feel like Christian Romero is at the start of his journey where he becomes like really good for Spurs because he stepped up. there's no doubt about it in the Europa League last year he stepped up in that final he's one of the reasons we won it he was one of the few players this is a man that's won a World Cup he knew exactly how to manage that occasion from an on-pitch perspective by all accounts leading up to the game he was one of the ones that was saying to all the players get out of this get out of this silly we're all going to play around play paul in the hotel mode we we gotta be fucking serious here we're going into a final like the eyes of the world are on us you want to fucking win something like act serious like time to time to man up if you like you know so he he is that type of persona and i think now i think i would say and i do believe this unlike pretty much any other time he's played for spurs now i really feel his loss when he's not in the side when he's not in the team i'm like damn like and so there is that like ledley type thing you know we all remember well when when ledley still played for us it was like is ledley playing today that was the first question we asked before every single game it's almost at that point with romero romero is for my money head and shoulders our best player in this team right now not just from experience but in terms of like his quality by his position so ask me ask me this question if you know Romero he's just signed what four year deal was it a four year deal he just signed with us by the end of that four years I dare say the conversation out of is he up there with Alder World, Vertonghen King will probably be to me will be a much more difficult discussion to have but right now like basing it right now on this and what we've seen so far I still think I put those lads ahead of him because i feel like alder were held as well was he benefited from the fact that he just slipped through the net of so many other teams right how the hell we managed to to get that one across the line because he just killed it at southampton he'd obviously not gotten on that well at letty so we got him for a cut price deal and i truly believe at that point I'm one of the best centre-backs in world football, who was in his prime and he was ready to go.

30:39Jack:So we didn't get to see over like the ugly developmental side of Toby Alder-Rawald. We saw the finished product in his prime years, fantastic, incredible centre-back who, you know, and what we had maybe half a season at the end of it where he wasn't even terrible, but we just knew he's kind of done at the level he was once at.

31:01Jon Bass:I just also felt with Toby, and this is why I think he's a bit underrated. One, obviously, like Lord of the Pings, right? Like his diagonal balls were just fucking... I've never heard that. That is class. Yeah. Lord of the Pings, mate. Absolute boss levels. He could take it from the Shire to Mordor, mate, in fucking no drama. Bang. Left foot right foot. One does not simply... Oh, wait. He's done it. He's done it. He's absolutely pinged one. So, yeah, he had a phenomenal pass on him. But I don't think I ever saw him... And this is where people will send in a million examples. But I don't think he ever made a mistake.

31:31Jon Bass:like a like a meaningful fuck up right like a really big clanger or got himself sent off or fucking did something mental now i could list a few romero clangers now it doesn't necessarily mean one's better than the other but it's that sort of thing where it's like it's unassuming center back control when i look at center back if i basically don't really notice them then they are fucking mustard because basically every time the ball goes near them they just win the header they They just lay it off. They just nip in and get the ball. They just lay it off. They're just sort of silent assassins. That's what Ledley was great at.

32:04Jon Bass:You noticed him because he was so imperious at just getting back and winning tackles and doing mad stuff. But it's just the way he just easily take the ball off people. Like Henri quotes about King, basically saying, he'd just take the ball off you before you'd even know he was there. That to me is what I find exciting about Cinemax. I'm not a big fan of fucking smashers who smash into people and rough people up or like Puyols, just fucking crazy nutters. I much prefer the sort of more calm Rolls Royce. They're infringing on your IP there, aren't they, John?

32:34Jack:Exactly. That's what you don't like.

32:35Jon Bass:Exactly. A bit too close to my sort of vibe. I'm like, stick a Stone Island jumper on, mate, and have it proper. So it's that sort of thing that I think is why Toby isn't thought of the way he should be, because I think people don't necessarily associate the fact that you didn't ever notice him was why he was so fucking brilliant. So yeah, I would just edge Toby in for now, but I'm sure there's going to be people fucking losing their minds and put Romero in, but don't care. Don't care, Jack.

33:00Jack:No, I feel like it's fair for now. I feel like the case has been made. To me, midfield is, this is the battleground, mate. This is where I think nobody's going to agree. Can I float a, it might be a bit of a Yadar suggestion, but can I float a first early suggestion for right wing? I might be going with Darren Anderton, mate. Sing out Darren Anderton.

33:24Jon Bass:Well, can I throw something back at you, Jack? Like, just jumping ahead here, there is an obvious front three that I think we have to have. So are we not going to go 4-3-3?

33:37Jack:I think what this is going to lead to doing is just doing the – we're talking about Gareth Bale, right? Bale, Swingman's on, Harry Kane. So I reckon Sonny and Kane, let's just – if we go in 4-4-2, just put them as little and large up top and Bale on the left. Just for the purposes of filling in this rudimentary 4-4-2, the Abosh type 7-11.

34:04Jon Bass:It has to be Anderton, doesn't it? Because I think if you actually look at his numbers, despite being called sick note, his actual numbers were amazing. It were amazing for Spurs in the Premier League. At one point, his assists and goals, I think, were well up there. like well up there so yeah I think I think Anderton is a good shout my personal shout and it's more emotion I think would have been for Azza just

34:30Jack:that was that was the struggle for me I loved Lennon he's definitely one of my favourite players he 100 % gets a place on the bench at least for me the thing for Anderton with me is alright and I definitely am old enough now that I've seen players like Anderton who are going to be lost to the sands of time in terms of with popular discussion current discussion but the thing for me i would say with anderton is that he is a player who much like you know many spurs players ledley kings another example who injuries really did kind of rob rob england and just the premier league of a truly special talent because i would say we saw him half fit a lot of the time and And okay, he didn't ever reach the heights of David Beckham, who I would say they were very similar players, really, very similar skill set.

35:31Jack:But Anderton was not far off. Like some of his dead balls, some of his deliveries were absolutely phenomenal. There were flashes from Anderton every now and again that you would see from him and you would think he definitely, you know, he was linked to Manchester United constantly. and then those rumors obviously cooled because of the injuries and everything like that but there were flashes in him where i was like you can see he belongs really at a better level than spurs it must be boohoo he's a premier league footballer he's still a millionaire all that type of stuff but on a certain human level you can always feel for players like that like ledley you know of course ledley's our boy and we love him and it's great that he spent his whole career at tottenham but he is a player that should have played for Barcelona or Madrid or somebody like that.

36:20Jack:Ledley King was an obscene footballer. And I think, you know, with somebody like Darren Anston, there were flashes of real, real, real brilliance in him that maybe, I don't know, I kind of feel like gets forgotten about a little bit. I just remember because I'm old enough to remember watching him play quite often, you know?

36:38Jon Bass:Yeah, I think with Anston, the Beckham comparison is a really good one because the longer time goes on, the sort of more people forget about how good Beckham was as a footballer and they just, with him, they focus on his celebrity. But those of us who saw him play, just remember how fucking devastating a player who can basically whip a ball and put it on a sixpence from 30, 40 yards, find all sorts of range of passing, how devastating that is. It's something that's missing drastically in the game right now.

37:05Jack:I was going to say, does Beckham get into a team nowadays? he probably plays central midfield doesn't he?

37:12Jon Bass:But this is what's absolutely wild is do you remember like a couple of seasons ago when Ward Prowse was like scoring free kicks and like was putting in corners and it was like oh my god he should be in the England squad this is unbelievable he's got great and I'm like he's like fine like there were ten a penny like that back in the day and it was players like Anderton and Beckham who really elevated what that you know what you could do basically from wide positions with long range passing and finding balls like that and yeah like in today's game i don't know how that works because it's sort of like they're you know they're not really built for the fullback positions where they could play wide so they'd have the space and they wouldn't be the sort of front attacking players and it's just interesting how the game has changed like those sort of players yeah they'd probably be midfield players but then it's just weird to imagine them more centrally because all of the you know the recognition of those type of players is like wide like whipping balls into you know strikers coming onto the end of stuff so yeah it's weird and that's what i mean if in this sort of fantasy world of this 442 then it should probably be anderson right because that would actually make a lot more sense um so

38:16Jack:if if he'd been playing maybe 10 years sooner eric dyer might have been one of those players as well man do you do you remember his delivery from the right the few times he i think he got he got a couple of games out on at right back and i think he maybe started at the right of midfield or at He's floated out to the right midfield once or twice. And he had a whip on him as well. He did have a whip on him.

38:40Jon Bass:Didn't he score a free kick for England?

38:42Jack:Yeah, a couple, I think. One against Russia and I want to say maybe a one against Portugal or something at some point.

38:50Jon Bass:Something like that, yeah. A couple of important free kicks. Again, this is the thing. It's like the game just changed, didn't it? Everything was short. Nothing was like long-range passing. People just call it going long. It used to be long-range passing when I was younger, and then it was going long, lumping it long, and it became more and more derogatory. Those type of players, there aren't that many of them anymore, certainly not at the highest level, which is a bit of a shame. In this fictional world, I'm more than happy with Anderson. I think that makes a lot of sense. Also, he was great for England as well, Darren Anderson.

39:23Jack:Really good.

39:24Jon Bass:Really, really good for England.

39:26Jack:Kept a young David Beckham out of the side for quite some time as well. Well, for a little while. But like you say about positions changing stuff, we have that conversation all the time now about Brennan Johnson, don't we? If only he was born in the 90s, he would be a free-scoring diminutive number nine, which I think is probably a fair shout in some ways. The comparison is always made to him and Defoe, though. And like, man, again, Defoe is another one of those players. He might make the bench on this. He won't make the start in 11. But really, like, every now and again, I see an old highlight of a Spurs goal at some point.

40:08Jack:What was the one I was thinking of? It might have been, maybe it was at Old Trafford we scored a goal. And in the build-up to the goal, I think it's Defoe that threads the ball through to Gareth Bale. And it is absolute, like, the work he does on the ball, the way he picks up the ball, where he holds off his man, beats his man, and then threads this beautiful ball through. I'm like, I definitely didn't appreciate Jermaine Defoe enough, like quite how good he was at the time. And his finishing was ridiculous as well. I think Jermaine Defoe for me could still have a career nowadays. Like, yeah, people say, oh, yeah, he was too small.

40:45Jack:He wasn't. He was hard. He was a little hard bastard, Jermaine Defoe.

40:49Jon Bass:A friend of mine, he's actually a gooner, but he's like one of my good mates. When he was younger, he was a centre-back and he played for Stevenage. And they played against Charlton when Defoe was at Charlton as a kid. And they'd heard about this Jermaine Defoe. He's like the next big thing, blah, blah, blah. So my friend Dave marks Defoe, that's fuck all. They drew nil-nil, return leg. And he's literally going, oh, this Jermaine Defoe's fucking bollocks, blah, blah, blah. Turns out he'd had a bit of an injury. He was carrying a bit of a knock, Defoe, in this first leg. So he basically could hardly move, apparently.

41:20Jon Bass:The second leg, he scored seven and just fucking annihilated him. And so I remember it because he was like, he's like, there's this kid called Jermaine Defoe. Remember the name. He will be a fucking unbelievable player. And that was when he was like a kid at Charlton. And so I always had this soft spot for him because I had this sort of proximity through my friend who'd played against him. And then obviously then he ends up at Spurs. And so I always had this soft spot for him. But yeah, to me, he was just like the next generation of what was a brilliant generation of strikers before him, right?

41:48Jon Bass:Like the sort of Les Ferdinands, Andy Coles, Alan Shearers, these sort of like just fucking Robbie Fowler's like free scoring just machines and Defoe just had this like he'd get the ball in and he'd just sort of against these massive centre-backs who were booting him all day long and he'd just roll them and just smash it in the bottom corner and you sort of couldn't work out how he was doing it he'd score these goals where he'd like go round the keeper and put it in you just don't see goals like that anymore and the sort of the archetypal you know we're talking about you don't see wingers anymore in the same way the archetypal centre-forwards are also dying like who is good now as a striker like there's fucking none of there's no good strikers anymore who's scoring 30 goals a season across like eight clubs right there used to be so many good strikers like proper goal scoring number nine just harland now isn't it just harland harland be the only one if he was around in that era that you'd go yeah decent like even when you used to go across like clubs like sunderland that kevin phillips kevin phillips would score fucking loads now shit anyone he won the

42:49Jack:did he win the European golden boot one year? Wasn't that Marcus Stewart?

42:54Jon Bass:He scored a championship.

42:55Jack:It might be, yeah. Marcus Stewart, man, again. Who was that? Who was that little board lad that played for Southampton who looked like a, you know, he looked like a bloke that worked in an office, but he was absolutely quality. Like, oh, what's his name? I want to say Chris Madsen. Chris Madsen? Chris Madsen? Let me hear it. Chris Marsden. Yeah, Chris Marsden. Baller. Absolute baller.

43:22Jon Bass:I always remember Jonathan Johansson at Cheltenham. And then obviously Darren Bent was there. But this is what I mean. They were just like players who would just score like loads of goals.

43:34Jack:I know he's obviously known for different stuff nowadays, but if we're just sticking purely to the football, Matt Letizia was a hell of a player, man. And he scored so many goals as well. I mean, to me, there's not a chance he survives in today's game. Like he was, you know, he wasn't like, you know, the most high octane player, but he was a silky like footballer.

43:56Jon Bass:Yeah, it's a real shame that his reputation outside of football now sort of shadows his football because there aren't many more talented footballers in English football history than Matt Letizia. And I genuinely mean that. Like he might not have reached the heights, right? There are loads of players who did, who had better careers than him. But for pure talent, the guy was a fucking joke. Like absolute joke. So just if you were a bit too young to watch Letizia, just go on YouTube and just put any compilation of Matt Letizia goals or any individual goal, and it will be one of the best goals you'll ever see in your life.

44:29Jon Bass:The geezer was a complete joke on both feet, volleys, fucking ridiculous touches. Just every goal he scored was basically goal of the season. He was a complete joke, Matt Letizia.

44:39Jack:What a player. It's funny that he didn't get more England caps, isn't it? Makes you think. Makes you think, Gilles. Exactly, it does make you think.

44:48Jon Bass:They were putting 5G in the balls back then. Didn't want to go near them. Centre midfielder, I'm assuming Luka Modric takes one of those spots. I mean, he's one of the greatest centre midfielders the game has ever seen. Arguably the best.

45:02Jack:Maybe the greatest.

45:04Jon Bass:Yeah, I think it'd be hard to argue that if you look at...

45:07Jack:He played for little old Tottenham Hotspur.

45:09Jon Bass:We made him, really, if you think about it. He wouldn't have been anywhere without us. But isn't he Real Madrid's most decorated footballer of all time? He is indeed. Of the most decorated club of all time. That sort of means you're amazing. And also internationally, he's taken Croatia way beyond their resources. What, two World Cup semifinals? Yeah, they reached a final as well, didn't they? Did they? Okay, there you go. That might be the Euros, but they definitely reached a final. They did. No, they did reach. They knocked us out.

45:35Jack:Yeah. So there you go. Bastards.

45:38Jon Bass:We all just shut that one out.

45:39Jack:Did they? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, right, yeah. That one, 2018. Oh, yeah. Okay, cool. so Luka Modric is in there now John who I I know who I'm putting in there who for me but let's let's flip to you first mate let's see what you're

45:56Jon Bass:well it's got to be Lewis Holtby hasn't it

46:00Jack:I just can't seem to get enough of what a chant that was

46:08Jon Bass:great chant shit player it's a shame he scored out good gold against Fulham He did, we'll give him that. In that poo kit. So this is a hard one because we're not playing... Most of our best midfielders, I think, were when we were playing more of a three. So you've got the sort of defensive options and then the sort of more midfield options. In terms of just best players who've played central midfield, for me, it's got to be Moussa Dembele. For me. Moussa Dembele, Luka Montre, midfield. You're never getting the fucking ball. You're never going to get it. you're never going to get it. So you don't have to worry about locking anyone up.

46:46Jon Bass:You're just never going to get the ball. Are all batteries the same?

46:52Jack:That's like asking if all soccer players are the same. Take Messi, the most decorated player ever. Is there any other player who has achieved that? No, just him. Now take Duracell. Is there any other battery with power boost ingredients inside? No, just Duracell. Remember, goats only trust goats. Because they're built different. And Messi only trusts Duracell.

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48:22Jon Bass:actually had to play and you've got I mean it's an obscene team for starters right you've got Walker bombing up one side for Tongan let's say he's you know in his Dortmund game mode so he's bombing up one side you've got Gareth Bale and Letizia whipping balls into Kane and Sutton you've got Luka Modric you've been Darren Anderson not Letizia oh sorry we've got Letizia you've got a real lasting history now mate that's it sorry Anderton whipping balls in

48:46Jack:and then we were linked to Letizia all the time there was always a chat that he was a Spurs fan

48:50Jon Bass:he is a proper Spurs player though isn't he like he would have been he would have been loved but anyway never mind um anderson sorry whipping balls in from the right mid central midfield like you do you do need someone more defensive so i do understand the argument that both modric and dembele is a bit wild but they're that you're just never going to get the ball like i just feel like you've got power and pace with dembele and he was good enough defensively to win you the ball back and then you've got Modric you know discussed it has to be him you can go for a more defensive midfielder but I just feel like you can't not have Dembele

49:28Jack:well I'm going completely the other way I'm not going more defensive for me who sits alongside Luka Modric is it's got to be Dele for me like I honestly I honestly think I know I know his time at the top was brief it was short but I would honestly say when delhi was at his peak he's not only one of the best tottenham players i've ever seen he's one of the best players of premier league's ever seen and i i genuinely mean that this is a kid who at 17 years old walks into our first team and we had a decent team at that point walked onto the pitch against real madrid and nutmegged luka modric um and just took the piss from that day forth like it's so funny man because people you know and i get it like people especially like rival fans focus on like where his career is at now i mean his career basically doesn't exist um and people are you know they are obviously not extending him the sympathy or the courtesy of understanding his personal situation that he has come out and spoken about and everything and you know you're not in a sarcastic way your heart bleeds to the lad like i you know i've got such love and affection for him uh he's given me some of the happiest moments of my life but there were flashes from him where it was truly i think it was up there with gareth bale like like truly unbelievable moments that i could not believe i was watching a spurs player doing what he was doing and it you know think about think about the momentum think about the amount of press that was behind him this kid that spurs a sign from milton keens he's doing all right but let's see if he can let's see if he can hang on let's see if he can do this we're close to drawing away at selhurst park and he does that he flicks a ball over his head and volleys it in from outside the box he i think he must have been 17 18 at that point was he like maybe yeah i think he was wasn't it?

51:26Jack:Like, he was a kid.

51:27Jon Bass:Yeah.

51:30Jack:Just the amount of stuff he did. And again, when we think about Ajax, when we think about, like, one of the greatest nights in our history, he's almost one of the forgotten figures in that. The way he held the ball up, the way he kept, like, getting the ball forwards in midfield, he did a lot of grunt work that night. That's my point. It wasn't all just, like, flicks and tricks with him and little moments. But, you know, I'm just talking things like, mate, like at the emirates taking the ball down dinking it over shushing them winning away at the emirates like with him just like purring i mean stanford bridge you know mate i was gonna say that finish

52:06Jon Bass:come on man dia's ball because dia and delhi were like a little bit of it you know like yeah yeah right and i remember that that ball from dia we're talking about earlier right how how decent his passing was lovely weighted ball that first touch it just brings it under and then just bang just flies past the keeper like that and we were always shit there as well until that team and I feel like Dele didn't respect anyone like he didn't respect anybody he would always rip it up against the top teams Madrid as well we played them at Wembley he was fucking brilliant that night like he was a fantastic player for us I agree he's like easily one of my favorite ever Spurs players and considering like essentially the short time he actually was with us what he achieved in that time goes beyond what most people achieve in a long, long time at any club.

52:50Jon Bass:So I don't think that necessarily rules him out. So yeah, look, if you're looking at moments and what they did, it's hard to argue Dembele over Dele. And it's not like I'm like, oh no, we've got to put Dele out. I'm happy to accept Dele. I guess I can't ever get my head around when people do these lineups, I'm like, well, that might work, that midfield's a nightmare. Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. I know exactly what you mean. but in this formation then you're like we'd just make it work if it was the 90s he would just be like an all action number 8 wouldn't he he'd just be up and down because he's got an engine and he'd just be scoring goals so like it's only because the game changed where he played sort of right wing which is really weird when you think about it like right of a front three or sometimes left of a front there's kind of a weird position that you can't really imagine him playing in or playing sort of in that you know again like a number 8 role but sort of really high and wide, like just weird hybrid position that was very specific to him.

53:52Jon Bass:And that was part of his beauty, right? He was a very specific player. And it really just clicked with that team in that moment. That made it amazing.

54:01Jack:I have seen, you know, I've seen some really good sort of points made around Dele as well when we sort of talk about him and his off-pitch stuff and his struggles now. Because you'll often see people say, God, you know, what a shame. what a waste of talent you know and i saw one person and it was you know it was just a comment but it really stuck with me a person was saying like this is a lad that has endured unimaginable stuff in a really broken childhood who has really struggled to make anything of himself who has gone on to be you know to have the sort of moments he'd had to play in the premier league to play in a champions league final to probably be a millionaire still he's done all right man like and it is sad it's definitely it's heartbreaking like knowing what's happened to him and seeing obviously the mental toll that it's taken on him to you know because we've we've seen how brilliant he is um and like his his story now is almost like one of those from like the you know the 70s when you hear about that brilliant footballer who lost his career to alcoholism or something like that right like you know i'm not i'm not saying you know i'm not making a direct comparison with that i'm just saying it's almost like a story of a bygone era player who was at such a peak in the game.

55:18Jack:The thing is, Dele Alli is a player that Spurs, at one time or another, could have sold for over£100 million. And this is 10 years ago now. He was, I don't know, he was a phenomenal player. But, you know, honourable mentions, of course, to, you know, Mr Dembele, who we probably will go with, or Dele, you know. But you've got Rafa van der Vaart in there, who, yeah, he could only manage 60 minutes, but it was 60 millionths of pure magic, right? Pure joy in that. talking Christian Eriksen, like again, one of the, probably one of the best players that's ever worn our shirt. Yeah. What a player. An unbelievable player when he was like, is probably, yeah.

55:55Jack:Okay. He didn't ever quite hit those heights of somebody like Kevin De Bruyne, but he went far off, man. Like he genuinely, he wasn't far off as people would have you believe for a time.

56:05Jon Bass:Also that guy, that goal, I think it was the same game, that goal against Chelsea. Fucking. Yes. Yes. Machine of a goal. Yes. Beautiful. Yeah.

56:12Jack:The free kick away at Sheffield United. beautiful, unbelievable, like that angle. Fantastic player.

56:18Jon Bass:I'd also like to honourable mention Keane and Berbatov. I know we've already got about seven strikers

56:23Jack:on the bench,

56:24Jon Bass:but that partnership at that time was just, like that was magic.

56:30Jack:It was proto-son and came,

56:31Jon Bass:wasn't it? That's what it was. It was glorious. And the thing, what's about it is that it was kind of weird because it was big man, little man, but they were both sort of number tens. Do you know what I mean? They were both sort of classy players who could find a ball and had a nice touch and a bit of inventive mindset. Keane wasn't like he was a goal scorer, so it was Berbatov, but they weren't like Defoe. They weren't just all about finishing and goals. Keane was always scoring mad goals. We'd go past five players on the byline and then chip it over the keeper. Berbatov scored no end of those goals.

57:02Jon Bass:So it was a kind of unusual partnership where they were both creative number 10s and it was that creative spark between them that just bamboozled defences on the regular. And that YOL team, as much as it wasn't like as successful as the Pochettino team, I really loved that era. Like I loved that era around then into sort of the Redknapp and, you know, Ramos's small stint. But like that sort of team that evolved around those players, I loved that era and I loved those players. And yeah, Berbatov and Keane will always have a soft spot in my heart. Those two are great.

57:33Jack:I mean, Dimitar as well, probably one of the best players of Premier League's ever seen yet. Like just such an individual talent. and I mean that in the respect to just such a unique talent perhaps that's more more what I should be saying wonderful wonderful player like that touch and just some of the stuff he could just do instinctively was outrageous if if you're if you're a bit younger and you've never seen Dimitar Berbatov's touch and turn on the halfway line away at Charlton is it was astonishing watching it happen live and even in a replay it's it's pretty mad like just i guess the context is we'd not really seen spurs players do this type of thing before so it was uh it was pretty mad um the subkeeper i mean that's tough in it herelia gomez neil sullivan who we say mate i actually

58:23Jon Bass:always thought brad frieda was just solid solid really underwhelming but he was fucking solid for us like he was fine i didn't mind brad frieda until he wasn't and then lorise stepped in in it

58:34Jack:right that's yeah he was really good then i guess mickey romero i mean look some people will say gary mavitt played in the premier league so yeah you know i i don't remember him that well that's kind of why it doesn't you know become immediately recallable to me but he is a club legend so there's probably just on that basis a case to be made for him sort of starting on the bench for us i think we sort of mentioned several different midfielders who would be making up the midfield and Keenan Berbatov, Defoe as well up top. But yeah, I don't know. I always enjoy doing that type of stuff. A few other sort of honourable little mentions.

59:11Jack:I always loved Simon Davis, you know, right wing. I always loved Simon. I know he wasn't that brilliant, but I always loved him. Back in the day, championship manager, him and Efthrington would just absolutely kill him down either wing. They would be absolute superstars those two by the end of the game, which was...

59:27Jon Bass:I am always a big fan of big Tommy Huddleston. Oh, the daisy cutter. Mate, that goal against Man City, just on the half volley, that is the most pure strike. There's loads of better goals in there, but just for pure technique and strike, it's like the way he hits it, it's just unbelievable. But it takes him by surprise.

59:47Jack:He runs off and his hands are all floppy because he doesn't know what to do. He's shocked himself. Instinct just took over.

59:55Jon Bass:What a player. He was fantastic. Again, I love watching him play.

59:58Jack:Great player. I don't know if I put him in the pantheon of greats for Tottenham. even though he did give us the Man City away goal. But Peter Crouch is a player because of how he looks and I guess because of his persona, the robot and all that type of stuff, I think it's often sort of overlooked actually quite how good he was as a footballer as well. Really good player. Really, really tired of playing. His goal away. Hat-trick of bicycle kicks for Liverpool in the Champions League, wasn't it?

1:00:22Jon Bass:And his goal away at AC Milan. Yeah. That was a fucking, like, obviously he didn't do much, but, you know, like big moments for us. The Man City goal. Yeah, exactly. Just, yeah, he was a really good player. and you're right it's because he looks weird but it's good for him because he's now making a career out of being weird looking and he's always embraced it so fair play to him I'll tell you what

1:00:40Jack:always used to irritate me is how many times fouls would be called against him purely because he could just easily beat players in the air it would drive me insane watching that happening

1:00:50Jon Bass:but we did get some payback for that for England when we played against Trinidad and Tobago and he basically yanked the guy's dreads to the ground and then just headed it in one of the most blatant fouls I've ever seen in world football.

1:01:02Jack:That was mad actually. I'd completely forgotten that. It was a shocking early part.

1:01:10Jon Bass:Pre-woke VAR days.

1:01:12Jack:That's what it is.

1:01:13Jon Bass:Real football when you could pull a man's long hair. That's proper.

1:01:17Jack:So a few questions here, John, if you've got the time. Nick, I am Nick Collins. I don't know if he's asking me because I guess it was posed on Man's Not What. asks he needs my opinions on the wearing jeans at home debate now i'm i'm totally with you john i think as i said to flav on twitter anyone anyone in the wearing jeans at home club check

1:01:42Jon Bass:their hard drives yeah you lost it you've completely lost it yeah this was uh i can't actually remember what the context was but i was talking about wearing jeans at home and i remembered that flav is very strong on he always wears jeans at home and he finds it weird when people don't wear jeans which is he actually gets a bit angry about it doesn't he which is a weird way around right because it's not like you're sort of mad um for people like doing something you're mad at them not doing something which is like your personal preference so yeah that was a bit weird so i just thought i would um yeah like kind of bring it up on the pod and talk about it and then the clips got shared today and yeah we sent for flath basically um and he's retaliated so I got what I wanted to round him up perfect

1:02:23Jack:of course I think it was on Lads and On he revealed and it was actually genuinely useful information that he told me not me but told the listeners as a jeans nonce if you need to clean your jeans stick them in the freezer I didn't know this I never knew this you're not supposed to wash them put them in the freezer yeah don't wash them

1:02:42Jon Bass:especially good like high quality jeans you shouldn't wash them like in that way you should actually just sort of fold them and hang them outside if you can and just let them

1:02:50Jack:like aerate let the birds peck let the birds pick away all the stains exactly yeah eventually they'll clean them up let the weevils have their way mother nature put the maggots in the wound

1:03:04Jack:um henry uh at clean slate underscore fc3 says going to my first birds match in january what are the must pre-match places dash things to see best pubs in the area what's your favorite pub down Tottenham Way, John?

1:03:22Jon Bass:Well, so historically, and not because it's good, because it's actually terrible, was always the bell in hell, the number eight or whatever it is now. Yeah, man. Just that, that's just like... Tinnies in the car park. Yeah, it's like, it's ropey. You don't take card? Okay, this is interesting. You're the only place in the world that currently doesn't take card. That's fine. They'll headbutt you if you ask

1:03:42Jack:if you can pay by American Express. They're like, no, no,

1:03:45Jon Bass:we've got a cash point in the corner. It's like, what? So you could have, I could pay with a card, but you'd rather me get cash. I wonder why that is. So I kind of love that. That is, to me, is like old school football. It's like going to the pub with my dad, right? The sort of smells and sounds, which are mainly disgusting, but part of the experience of going to football and going to Spurs. More recently, though, I feel like the best pub is the Beehive. I just feel like that is like one of the nicer places to go and just...

1:04:11Jack:It's massive as well, isn't it? It's big, yeah.

1:04:13Jon Bass:And you've got the, yeah, exactly. You've got the garden at the back. And I don't know, it's like, depends which way you go, but it's kind of, because I usually go Tottenham Hale and then I would just go there because it's kind of on the way and it's kind of a nicer place to stop. And then you've just got the last little bit to walk. I kind of feel like that's a good spot.

1:04:27Jack:They're my two tips. Do they still have it? Because I haven't been to a game for a while now because I'm an armchair. Do they still have that big banner up with Daniel Levy saying we've got more beers than he's had managers? Probably. I haven't seen that, so maybe, yeah. Yeah, I always quite like that. but um yeah like Antwep Arms there's the thing is right it all depends what sort of vibe you want if you want something that's a bit you know if you want something that's a bit sort of aggier a bit more boisterous you want to go somewhere like the Brick Lairs or the Billy Nick uh you know if you want to go somewhere that's sort of in between Beehive's a good you know Beehive is a good sort of got an aggy element to it but you can still sit down and chill out and mind your own business it's all right um Antwep Arms is definitely like a softer a more gentle community feel pub which is quite nice but then you know if you want something a bit younger blue coats you get good food in there as well which is quite decent um and there's that i always forget the name of it um there's that place it's like a sort of craft beer they call like a tap room don't they right down by seven sisters but you can also get like sourdough pizzas and all that so if you want to do all that sort of the more gentrified side of football now if you want to be part of that brigade um i can't i can't believe i can't remember the name of it um i went in there before the before the ac milan game you know our that sort of death spiral end of conto when we got knocked out of the champions league and uh you know not you know obviously they weren't interested in breaking stereotypes the pizza place was absolutely full of italians and mate they were aggro as fuck as well in there as well yeah it was all like you know it was like ultras black hoodie brigade type thing so we sort of sat down had our margarita and offskade when uh yeah when the big sort of in unison aggie chants started we're like yeah i don't i don't

1:06:20Jon Bass:want to blade in the bum today yeah they get quite stabby don't they which is it's not crooked for me it's like you know fistfights and all that's just a laugh but until someone just just good

1:06:30Jack:clean fun for the boys yeah a bit scrapping in the streets never hurt anyone um drew drew hathy says do you both agree that there is less filling in a tesco meal deal wrap than there is in a sandwich from the same meal deal and therefore they are not where the value lies interesting

1:06:50Jon Bass:um i must admit um it's gonna sound a bit bougie i don't think i've had a uh a sort of meal deal since like 2007. So it's been a while since I've dipped into a meal deal, mainly because I work from home now. So I used to have them all the time when I worked in an office, right? You just go out, bang, meal deal, no drama. So I don't think I've got enough data to be sure on this. One thing I will say is the wraps were always a bit underwhelming in comparison to a sandwich.

1:07:17Jack:Loads of that thick, pappy actual wrap on there that they pad it out with.

1:07:23Jon Bass:Yeah, it's all fur coat and no knickers, Jack. and I'm not having that. Just give yourself a nice hearty ham and mustard sandwich. Perfect. You know what you get in there. Good British sandwich, that. None of this hoisting duck nonsense. No.

1:07:36Jack:Me and Billy were stalling the virtues of a good old cheese and pickle sandwich the other day as well.

1:07:41Jon Bass:Absolutely elite. This is what I mean.

1:07:43Jack:A much forgotten sandwich combo, that. I love it. Especially this time of year, cheese and pickle.

1:07:49Jon Bass:This is the thing, right? People always give it loads. Like, oh, British food's terrible. like the British Empire got so big that the sun could never set on it. We were fucking eating ham and mustard sandwiches. We were nicking everyone else's food.

1:08:00Jack:Exactly. Don't worry about it. Like, you know. Indian curry, I say British curry. Know what I mean? Proper.

1:08:07Jon Bass:Exactly. This is what I'm saying. So don't worry about that. Don't worry about what we're doing. We're doing fine. We were doing fine eating cheese and pickle sandwiches. So there's nothing wrong with it. If anything, it was fueling what became, you know, the biggest empire the world's ever seen. So take your issues up with that.

1:08:22Jack:I do love watching Americans eating English mustard because they keep – it's a YouTube thing and they always – or like TikTok or – there's many examples of it happening because they keep getting told it's spicy. It's like – because it's not – whatever like wasabi is, it's that. It's the thing that gets you in your nose. Yeah. But it is strong. It is strong.

1:08:49Jon Bass:It's hot, not spicy, I would say. And even that doesn't really do it justice. You're right. It's a very particular type of like sensation that they're just, they're not ready for it. They're not ready for it.

1:09:02Jack:Bardi, I don't know if you have heard of him, says, John loves garage music, but what would his dream garage look like?

1:09:12Jon Bass:Well, to keep it on trend, I'd probably fill it with some decks and some speakers so I could just relive my garage youth and just play garage in there, garage in the garage to my heart's content that'd be quite nice um i'm not much of a toolsman like i'm absolutely fucking useless around the house the amount of times we have to get like a task rabbit bloke to come around and like put up a shelf or like change a light bulb is absolutely ridiculous i might as well have a direct debit monthly because i can't do anything jack so there's literally no point in having tools or anything useful in the garage like there's no point in doing that so i might as well just make it into some sort of yeah entertainment zone

1:09:49Jack:for me to just listen to music so yeah do you know what i i always used to be like that and since uh since we got our first house this year i've sort of taken it upon myself like i i am going to learn how to do some bits of diy and uh i'm pretty bad at it but i'm giving it a go yeah that's good well you're definitely doing better than me then mate because i'm terrible i'm amassing more of a i sounded to floorboards to be fair i did that jesus yeah and i felt like you know i felt proper like yeah i'm on the tools now boy right that's it don't come at me i'll spark you out in the

1:10:22Jon Bass:street mate you know yeah i'm uh did you um go into the lounge and be like looking at the missus like with with an empty mug and just leave it in the lounge just on the floor just take the hint

1:10:30Jack:i need a cup crack crack on darling when you get a moment yeah go on um the thing is my my old man

1:10:36Jon Bass:is like he built he basically built like half of our house when we had an extension when we were younger he just like built it and then he built like an extension out the back and he like can rewire he just knows and that's not his job he was never like in the building trade but he just worked out to do stuff and he had mates who could do it and they'd show him how to do it so when i first bought this place he like came over and like we do it together which was basically him showing me how to do it me immediately fucking it up him looking at me like what the fuck is this child doing um and then sort of having to fix it for me and make it better but it's so weird because i sort of think like you know mike i play football he doesn't care about football he likes fishing and golf and uh fixing things and like you know just boring stuff as i would call it right i like football and boxing and like sports like that and like i work in tech so i work from home so he doesn't so he just he is so confused he's like i want to be proud of you because on paper you're doing all right but like this this again is like what what sort of

1:11:37Jack:life is this i don't understand it what is it about that their generation though man in terms of like you know we we've got apps fitness apps we can do targeted workouts we've got all this sort of information about nutrition and all this type of thing then they used to eat bits of cheese and bread and they've all got popeye forearms and like massive like strong hands do you know i mean strong grips strong firm handshakes what we're doing wrong mate you know

1:12:04Jon Bass:You know walnuts? You know there's like that machine to crack walnuts? My old man could just do that with his hands. You'd laugh. Seriously? Seriously. And just crack them with his hands and then eat them. And I used to watch it, just think it was normal because I was a kid. And I picked one up one day. I was fucking trying to hit it, smashing it with a hammer. I couldn't fucking open it. And he just cracks them with his hands. Is he massive? No, not at all. Not at all. He's wiry. He's small and wiry. Yeah, okay. But he's exactly what you described. He was so strong, but he just looks like a little bloke.

1:12:32Jack:He's the lad that, like, the big bully picks on in the pub and ends up getting sparked, right? Getting chinned, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're the lads you've got to be careful of, man. Like, the wiry, quiet lads. Like, just give them a wide berth. There's a couple of clues, right?

1:12:46Jon Bass:One, his name's Ian, right? Strong. Strong, I'm going to knock you out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's not a glass jaw name.

1:12:53Jack:Do you know what I mean?

1:12:54Jon Bass:Two, he drove a champagne Volvo and smoked, and smoked like, you know, the Sherlock Holmes pipe. he smoked one of those bastards and had a big fucking chopper like uh beard in the 70s and like long hair so he just looked like a fucking maniac and he kept the long hair and the beard as he got older as well and he kept smoking his pipe so that was pretty geese um and then yeah so basically it's that combination champagne volvo smokes a pipe called ian just don't bother like you does he wear jeans at home perchance um i think he was much more of a corduroy sort of guy Oh, yeah. Especially in his autumn years.

1:13:29Jon Bass:He loves a corduroy and a flannel shirt. I mean, yeah.

1:13:33Jack:Yeah, good man. I'll give you this one. Billy T says, John is emceeing a party. Which Spurs player would you most trust behind the decks?

1:13:45Jon Bass:Oh, that's a good shout. Thing is, I'd have to think about this quite smart, right? Because your instinct is like you go to some of the players that have played for us that you know are kind of into music and stuff and around it. The problem is you forget that footballers are way younger than us. So actually, their frame of reference for the music might be absolute chaos. If I was to go, I'll pick Dele. He's cool. He likes music. And I'm like, right, play some 1999 UK garage bangers. He's not going to know what the fuck's hit him. He's going to be all over the place. So I need to go slightly older and I need to go London.

1:14:19Jon Bass:So I think it's got to be Ledley because Ledley doesn't scream like UK garage cool. But the man is from Tottenham and he's my age. So he probably does. He probably got a pretty good grasp and knowledge of the UK garage scene, enough to do a passable job. And also, like, he was out in faces, wasn't he, every fucking weekend. So he knows a bit about it. He'll be fine. So it's got to be Ledley. Got to be.

1:14:43Jack:Go on, Ledley. Another quick one. Ian Coyes from Blue Sky says, if John's so big, what's the biggest thing he can pick up? And then in brackets, excluding mums. No, that's a shame.

1:14:57Jon Bass:Um, yeah, I mean, look, I'm actually not, not that big is what we've realized, right? So many people are now getting called not so big John Bass because when people meet me, they're like, oh, not that big. Like six foot three and 16 stone is now just medium size, but apparently I'm not big anymore. So that's quite annoying. I mean, look, every time we go to like, I don't know, like the fighting cock social, right? There's some absolute units there. And I'm like, fucking hell, they are massive, right? but unless you're friends with them i am going to be one of the biggest people that my friends know right so like i'm not the biggest person in the world but just you know frame of reference in it um biggest things i could pick up well it is people isn't it because if you think about it like they're sort of a good shape for they're elongated but they weigh a lot and so you could sort of pick them up so i think it's got to be a it's got to be another person and then you just got to you got to think about the type of person you want to pick up like i reckon like jemma collins i could probably pick her up she's quite big i could probably pick her up i reckon or that guy who sings the opera that down spurs with the go compare man go compare who the with his wandering hands on strictly come dancing exactly see how he likes it win evans isn't it yeah see how he likes it when i'm picking the fireman's carrying my finger up his ass have that go compare that your mug that's probably a good place to end the pod john um tell us look we've we've mentioned

1:16:33Jack:man's not what but give it give it a plug on mate tell us tell us what's on where to listen

1:16:37Jon Bass:how to listen where to interact yeah thanks mate so uh man's not what is available everywhere you get your podcasts on apple spotify wherever you listen basically you can get it normal places um Yeah, the name is Man's Not What because basically, do you remember Man's Not Hot? That blew up for a little while with the geezer going around in his jacket like Man's Not Hot. Basically, I've got a friend, Holly. She's an actor and comedian, and she just doesn't know any references, right? Like anything. So you go, oh, you know this thing? No, what's that? Oh, you remember that thing? No. Oh, okay. So one day I was talking about Man's Not Hot, and she just sort of looked at me really blankly and went, Man's Not What?

1:17:14Jon Bass:And I was like, that's a really funny name for a podcast. and then I was like, this is kind of a good idea for a podcast. We should basically every week, I'll just bring you a couple of different things that are happening in the internet and try and educate her on what's going on. It's silly, it's stupid. It is sort of talking about putting your finger up the go compare man's ass. That's kind of basically what we talk about. It's very easy to listen to. It's nonsense.

1:17:35Jack:Just an hour of that.

1:17:36Jon Bass:Yeah, sometimes it's even less than that because it's just like, well, you can't really make any serious points about most of these topics. They're just, they're stupid. so yeah like it's fun and we have a laugh doing it so yeah if you just want something to like to listen to then feel free to look at Mads.Wat we're on Twitter or Instagram all that kind of stuff so yeah feel free to jump on there if you want to

1:17:56Jack:John it's been an absolute pleasure mate much love always thank you brother

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