Turning The Corner | Frank’s Momentum, The Gray-Simons Axis & Would We Take Poch Back? (Q&A)

22:35Jack:And I don't, I'm not really just buying the fact that, oh we've won a couple of games so people are happy now I think the two have gone hand in hand it feels like I don't know the boil has been lanced a bit and everybody's now just focused on say let's get let's get better from this but let's make that let's make that Fulham game like our lowest point and let's build on that go forwards from here and look we've said all we need to say Poro's had a go at us on Instagram we've had a go at Vicario right come on you Spurs let's go for it Did it feel that way in the ground the other night against Slavia?

23:11Jack:If your business runs on five different apps, 12 browser tabs, and one spreadsheet that everyone's afraid to touch, it's probably time for Odoo. Odoo is an all-in-one business management software that connects every part of your business into one powerful, easy-to-use platform. So instead of wasting time switching between disconnected systems, your entire business works together in real time. Your team moves faster, your data stays accurate, and you can actually focus on growing your business. Let one unified system run your entire business. From the first opportunity to the final payment, everything works together in one place.

23:52Jack:Whether you're a small business or managing a large operation, Odoo gives you one flexible platform built to grow with you. Learn more at odoo.com. That's O-D-O-O dot com.

24:33Jack:They say you can tell a lot about a person by the contents of their freezer. So what does a bottle of Jägermeister say? It says you have standards. You don't cut corners. And you like your Jägermeister shots the way they're meant to be enjoyed. Ice cold. As for the frozen taquitos and mystery leftovers, we'll keep that between us. Drink it cold, or don't drink it at all. Jägermeister. Damn, that's cold. Drink responsibly. Jägermeister liqueur 35 % alcohol by volume. Imported by Masked Jägermeister, U.S. White Plains, New York. Yeah, I mean, obviously, 15 ,000 empty seats don't help situations like that.

25:08But it was, you know, you had the sunny thing, which is really nice, slightly rushed, but it happened. It was really lovely to see him back. He said all the right things, played all the hits. And then I think from quite early on, you know, we had a chance in the first minute instead of conceding a goal in the first minute. That's always a positive way to go about the game. It did feel better. It was it never felt like we were really on a knife edge of a competitive game. I wasn't at the Brentford game, so I don't know what the first 25 minutes of that were like before we got the first goal. But yeah, it did feel like, you know, the eruption happened at home to Fulham.

25:42And you know what, rightly so. You're 2-0 down after six minutes at home to Fulham. You probably have to expect to get some tap for that, unfortunately, on the run we were on.

25:52Jack:There was so much pearl clutching, wasn't there? I think fans, people forget fans are allowed to be fuck it off about stuff, you know? Like, what is this puritanical kind of the policing of fans that pundits and everything seem to do now? Like, aren't they allowed to be annoyed? I don't get it. Yeah, it does feel like, you know, there's a sport like rugby you can go and watch if you're not so fast about the score. You just want to go and watch some nice sport like football trades on its passion. And, you know, heaven forbid you take the passion out of the fans and see what happens to the sport after that.

26:23I mean, we are proper mugs, the amount we do for our football teams. and a lot of it comes because of the absolute passion that, yeah, it manifests itself in negative ways when things aren't going well. But you'd miss the positive stuff if we didn't have that. I can assure you of that as a sport. So the booing, people are going to boo. It did all feel a little bit melodramatic, the Fulham game and players coming out on Instagram, I wind it in. But it felt like a more united ship. And look, three good results on a bounce will do that for you. and also you know I've said on our show that you have the Frank sigh which I have which is when I see the team that Frank's picked for a home game you just let out this long sigh of oh my god got

27:05Jack:to watch these players and it's the opposite to the to the ledley jubilation of yesterday year isn't it exactly and it's no surprise that you put the attacking players on and fans are slightly more engaged in what they're going to watch because you want you want to go and watch your best players play and seeing players like Simons and Gray as opposed to you know Benton, Corp, Pallinia and Sar as a midfield three like that is miserable it just is.

27:31Jack:Oh dear um what I mean what are your sort of I don't know expectations what do you think Spurs should be capable of this season because I think that's the thing I'm finding hardest to quantify I don't know how good we are I don't know what we should be achieving I don't know you know what I'm even angry about help me please uh maybe I've got the rosiest tinted glasses but I still don't see us as having much worse than the fifth sixth seventh squad overall in the league I think that I don't think it's ridiculous to expect us to be competing with Newcastle and Villa for league positions uh as the season comes down you know Liverpool aren't being particularly well maybe they recover and maybe you know Arsenal City Chelsea and Liverpool becomes the de facto top four that is just impenetrable.

28:22But I don't think it's unreasonable with the amount of money the club have spent, the amount of players that I still think are good players that we have. When I see people say, oh, we're lucky to come 11th or 12th, if that's the case, then a lot of them should lose their jobs. A lot. Because that's a mad lack of expectation to have as far as I'm concerned.

28:42Jack:How you are, I mean, Forrest, right, this weekend, for example, I think will be a very good barometer for perhaps the, this mini Frank Renaissance, right? Because they are a team that are, I would still like to say on paper, I think we just about edge. I think we are, I think we probably are a better side for us, even though they have spent a lot of money. They've started the season pretty poorly, but seem to be kind of back on track now. Dangerous side, they're going to care about that one. I'm sure Maranakis will be saying to them, beat this lot, embarrass them, show Morgan that he was right to stay with us, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, all that type of narrative.

29:24Jack:But I also feel like this is the sort of game that even this Spurs side could go to the forest or city ground, whatever it's called, go to the city grounds and just dispatch them in a nice, calm, professional manner, 1-2-0, something like that, right? I mean, I've got slight concerns that everything in Tottenham land always gets worse. So after the, as a hat-trick, you know, how many can Gibbs White possibly score? I mean, can he score five and save a penalty? I mean, it's not, nothing's implausible, is it? I'm still, honestly, I'm still so rattled about that as a hat-trick. Honestly, I don't think he's even completed 90 minutes since that game, you know?

30:01He's been terrible all season, apart from that one game. I mean, even for us, that made that as a tattoo.

30:08Jack:But like, I think I could have even reconciled, right? I could have reconciled if it was a hard-fought 1-1 and Ezzer gets a 95th-minute winner, we would have all seen that coming. A fucking hat-trick. A hat-trick. It's unbelievable. It's almost so bad that at least we can laugh about it, whereas that would have been devastating. Fair play, Tottenham. You've outdone yourself. Well done. I even had Arsenal mates being like, I don't even want to take the piss out of you, to be honest. And they kind of are by doing that. But still, they're just like, this is brutal. Like, you know, even by Tottenham Arsenal standards, this is horrible.

30:47Yeah, I know. But let's assume he gives what doesn't score a double hat trick, Olimpico and all that stuff. I think it's one of those things that does Frank, is Frank going to go there and say, we're probably better. We're going to play our way and try and beat you. Or is he going to say, tough game, let's gut it out, go for a battle and try and edge it. because a lot of what Frank has done in the last couple of games and sort of getting fans back on side, like for me, you have to start playing Xavi Simons in games like this. Again, like to see what you've got. I mean, you can't just sign someone for 60 million quid and then baby them and only play them against the Dossers at home.

31:25Like you signed a player like that to create one or two moments of magic in tight games like this. And I just think if he goes with the sort of negative, you know, most defensive forward line he can possibly pick at most offensive midfield line. Like I would get it in principle that you think you have to gut the game out, but there has to be a time where if he's going to be a success at Tottenham, there will have to be a time where he realizes that we are the team that have to make the play in games like this and not just react to the opposition because you can't, he has to think that his ceiling is up here.

31:57Like you can't just bring the floor up. If you bring the floor up and bring the ceiling down, then we're just going to be eighth or 12th and we'll lose as many games as we win because you're not ever doing anything. Sunday is a game where Tottenham have to go out and win it as far as I'm concerned. And I will be thrilled if we can gut out a 1-0. But I think from a mindset perspective, it's time for him to start realising that we need to go in as the aggressor.

32:16Jack:I think Frank does have form. Just anecdotally speaking, I don't know if it's something Jay Harris has mentioned or sort of other Brentford types. I think Flav's got a Brentford mate that he's had on the fighting cock before or something who said that Frank does have form actually for being quite reactive in a season. If people are digging him out for something, he's not too proud to switch things up. And I do, I do wonder if what we have seen for the past couple of games is him just thinking, right, just let's just break glass in case of emergency. Just get Simmons on the pitch. Let's just do it.

32:49Jack:Maybe we are, maybe we are wrapping him up in cotton. Well, a bit too much, but you know, I don't know. Maybe that doesn't give Frank enough, enough credit for, I don't know for, for what it is that we're seeing right now that, you know, essentially I'm saying that he's being reactive to what fans or the media you were telling him to do either way if Spurs keep winning games I don't think anyone really cares um but he's yeah I don't know I think the other thing I've been sort of telling myself about Frank trying to remind myself and it's not that this is what we have to do as a club um but just food for thought is a is his first job at this kind of level he is still learning on the job as well so to i guess to draw our conclusions on him the limits of his capacity and everything probably isn't really fair right now um but as we say it's it's not you know it's not on us to have to say well it's all right i have a couple of seasons of finishing like you say 11th or whatever it was that somebody said to you that's all right because he's learning that's you you've got to kind of i don't know you you have to hit a certain level pretty quickly don't you if you're going to be manager of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club.

34:03Jack:And I don't think it's entitled to set ourselves that level of expectation, is it? No, I mean, you cannot separate the price of the tickets out from some of the stuff that we watch. Maybe we'll go on to it. There has obviously been a tipping point that's been reached with the club where fans have just become utterly fed up of how much it's costing to watch Drek. I mean, Drek or not, it's too much, isn't it? I think it has hit a point. That's the thing. At least if I knew it was going to be 16-17, I've done it again, I've mentioned 16-17, put that on the tweet that it got mentioned today, the Spurs 16-17 season.

34:40If I knew I was watching that home team and that home form, then I could probably tolerate my 90 quid per ticket, but not when it's this. But anyway, aside from that, there's no way Frank would have got the job if he pitched it that we'll try and come 11th this year, 8th next year, and then we'll have a crack at the Conference League in 2028-29. there's no way he would have got the job off that sort of lack of ambition so yeah what's he got to lose at this stage he's not going to keep his job if we do come 11th, 12th so as much as he might think caution first and then we'll go for it you might be right that sort of break last case of emergency maybe he just saw the mortality of his job flash in front of his eyes after Fulham and thought well I've got to change something So if I'm going to lose my job anyway, I might as well lose it trying to go for it.

35:31And if he stumbled across something that's working, great, we'll take it.

35:36Jack:Did you see the Pochettino interview the other day on BBC? No, I didn't. I heard it was magical. Well, yeah, he is magic, you know.

35:48Jack:He didn't say Spurs exactly, but he as good as said, his biggest ambition. so kelly somers the the interviewer asked him if there's one thing you can achieve in football right now what would it be and you're thinking he's the manager of the usa managing them home soil world cup the the tap in there is just to say i want to win the world cup with the usa i'll focus on whatever next straight away his eyes lit up and he says you know i i still have basically I still have unfinished business in the Premier League um at Spurs we we were touched we touched the Premier League and the Champions League and uh I want to go one further I want to go back on I want to win I want to win those things so he wasn't saying I wanted to go back to Tottenham he wants to come back to the Premier League win the Premier League win the Champions League but the the the clearest between the lines there was I want the Spurs job again I want it so he he becomes available after the world cup you know say the states he has a good world cup they get to the quarters maybe they even make a semi-final we've seen a home team do that before um i think it'd be a stretch to say they win it like with all due respect you know let's let's be let's be honest you don't have to all due respect that yeah i've got a few american listeners all right so they don't they don't expect the respect of sorry you might not win the world cup lads they believe that they can win that is true you're forgetting that you're forgetting that And I'm personally going to win the Super Bowl in February by myself.

37:18You watch it. You see it coming.

37:22Jack:But Mauricio Pochettino is available after the back of a decent World Cup. Whatever. It doesn't matter if he's had a good World Cup or not. He's available in summer. Thomas Frank has just finished eighth. Eighth. Let's say sixth to eighth with Spurs. And we've sort of muddled through the season. Not catastrophically. Not particularly great. just kind of got through what do you do what do we do as a club what should we do what would you want to do do you know what I mean because I think those are two very different things I'm trying to work out in my head how much Frank would have to win this season for me to not want to bin him off for Pochettino just because and I think even the treble I'd have to have a serious conversation with myself what do I want to do here it's not going to get better than that is it so Then you may as well do it, actually.

38:14You might as well give them a 50-year contract and we can just all live in peace together and have barbecues and smell our lemons and all that stuff. I'm so emotionally invested in Pochettino coming back now that I appreciate I will never be able to see sense on the issue because I just want it to happen so much because there is unfinished business, even if that might be to the detriment of the club. I almost don't care because I was thinking last week, particularly in the stadium, him. There's been three periods where the fans have been fully behind it. And it's when the manager has taken the fans with him on a journey.

38:45And it's Pochettino, the first nine months of Conte, where he did sort of really engage his supporters and it did feel like a unified experience. And that first season of Ange until he said those stupid things about the City game, where he had everyone completely on side, hanging off his every word. And then he blew it, unfortunately. And it's great going to football and feeling that. And I don't really feel that now that's not a knock on frank as a person that's just the way he is i don't really see him as a a natural leader of a fan base like us to take us take take us with him on a journey but yeah i mean if if the opportunity arose to get pochettino back whatever people say never go back or whatever i saw someone say that until it's proven that he's not the answer he'll always be the answer and it might even be that the itch has to be scratched just for a lot of people just to get over it.

39:34Jack:I mean, I've definitely got like, you know, sky blue and white tinted glasses on Maurizio Pochettino and just what he's done at Spurs previously. I'm always going to defend him and look for a way to you know, shoehorn him back into the conversation really. So I'm obviously on side as a default setting to getting him back, but there probably do need to be some like more should we say rational conversations had around what he had available to him during his first stint obviously he had harry kane coming through the ranks he had sonny who was going to go on to be a superstar as well ericsson delhi blah blah blah blah all the rest of them we know the big names people are going to say well he doesn't have that here at Spurs but I do kind of look at this Spurs team and think the the constituent parts are maybe there it's not too dissimilar from the Spurs right there might not be a Harry Kane coming through I don't think we're expecting Dane Scarlett to go on the same trajectory there right but you know there's still there's I don't know there's a Luca Williams Barnett in the in the in the whatever he is under 21s or something right now who scored what did he score five goals the other day in the nothing so there are players there there is a Bergvall there is Gray there is Spence there is a doggy you know there's there's lots of very talented young players Xavi Siemens that we've just been talking about and for all the kind of the idea that you know where he's been washed since then PSG was a nightmare it's been a toxic bin fire up until very very recently when they've actually overhauled their whole approach to doing things right we're not going for the Galactico thing we're actually going to try and build a team now and then surprise surprise they're going to win a Champions League you know so I don't think that rested solely on Pochettino and with Chelsea as as people have continued to say you could see by the end of his stint with Chelsea he actually had started to turn the tide there he had actually started to turn Chelsea into a decent side again we're also seeing that with the States right now had a pretty terrible start and now they're starting to look pretty decent I mean I'm basing that purely off the fact they just beat Uruguay but still I don't think that's an insignificant result really so I mean I guess does does your more rational side have those concerns that we are just getting too emotional about it that we do we just need to close the book on Maurizio Pochettino we need to look for even if Thomas Frank doesn't work out maybe there'll be a Nagelsmann available maybe that's where we should be going we should be looking ahead in in in that kind of a way um um or i i don't know i just i just i sort of feel like even even from a rational basis i feel that something i don't know like the spirit of tottenham hotspur needs to once and for all put that one to bed i think i think there is unfinished business with maritzi pochettino there just is right yeah that's exactly where i am and you know whatever people want to say about the team that he had then versus now obviously kane is the unicorn that changes everything but we still won a lot of games you know the only time we were ever successful when Kane wasn't playing was under Pochettino because he managed to find a way to put some up front or you know he had a system in place that we still won quite a few games without Kane but of the team that he you know the famous team Rose, Walker, Vertonghen and Ericsson who are probably the four guys that played the whole way through from the start they were all like terrible players under Sherwood you know Danny Rose was almost laughed at the club at that stage.

43:12No one had any. But the contract signing when they announced it. Yeah. You know, for example. As Pochettino signed, I think it was around about that summer. None of those players, you would have had any indication would go on to be some of the best players in their position over the course of the next five years. And this isn't even a Pochettino discussion necessarily. This is just a case of, I think that people are way too quick to judge our squad or just write the entire squad off as rubbish. None of them are good players. that wouldn't get into any other squads. For me, I think there's a load of players there that if they were in the right situation, playing front-footing, attacking football, could be really good.

43:46I mean, we've seen most of them have 15 to 20 really good games. You know, our default 11, that you would say, the best of what we've seen of all of them is a great player. You know, Adoghi, Porro, the back four. Obviously, the back four, too often injured, can make mistakes, fine. But we've all seen them have brilliant games. Bergwahl at the back end of last year we were all talking about sky's the limit yes of course we need a bit more quality in attacking positions but it shouldn't be impossible to sign two or three players to punctuate you know an already pretty decent team Pochettino or otherwise I do

44:23Jack:also feel right and I know the squad was very good because the point you're making is sound is that it's it's it's it's this idea that pochettino was simply good because he inherited a really good team that that does as you say ignore the fact that he actually made a lot of those players much better than they were um or not not better than they were but say allowed them to realize their true potential let's say that and i also think people i do really think honestly i really do think people forget actually how good we were under like it wasn't just that spurs has we had a a couple of streaks where we of good form or something for at least three years of his tenure we were a team that legitimately could have won a premier league um which i couldn't say of any other spurs team in my entire lifetime this this is this is a team that got to i mean again i think people forget this and i know the route to the final was the way it was but still we got to a champions tottenham hospital got to a champions league final you know we we were an immense i'm sure you remember that feeling i'm sure you remember the feeling of going to white heart lane just knowing we're winning today like we're winning we're gonna beat this lot um it's the feeling that dictates everything about my spurs fandom now because i basically harbor the resentment that I don't still have that because I feel like that guy was just swept away from you know from us by a suit that decided he didn't like him anymore and wanted a big name in Mourinho in charge.

46:01Jack:Study and play come together on a Windows 11 PC and for a limited time college students get the best of both worlds. Get the Unreal College Deal everything you need to study and play with select Windows 11 PCs. Eligible students get a year of Microsoft 365 Premium and a year of Xbox Game Pass Ultimate with a custom color Xbox wireless controller. Learn more at windows.com slash student offer. While supplies last, ends June 30th. Terms at aka.ms slash college PC. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. You know those friends who support your preference for podcasts over music on road trips?

46:38Jack:That's the energy State Farm brings to insurance. With over 19 ,000 local agents, They help you find the coverage that fits your needs. So you can spend less time worrying about insurance and more time enjoying the ride. Download the State Farm app or go online at statefarm.com. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Pays Checkout is offered by your banks and credit unions. So when you shop online at participating merchants, your cards appear in one place, ready to use and kept up to date. And the best part, your actual card number isn't shared when you check out. Because boundaries are healthy.

47:13Jack:Like no work emails after six. One small step for boundaries. One big leap for checkout. Pays. It checks out. Activation required. See pays.com to learn more. Terms and conditions apply. And it's hard not to feel resentment. I can't really within 15 minutes on Pochettino today. But a lot of pods will do it. because once you start talking about it, it's really difficult to get off the subject because it is so synonymous with, you know, particularly at our age, you know, late 30s, early 40s. Like he is basically the only person that has made us feel like we are the best that we've always wanted to feel.

47:52So it's so hard to shake that off.

47:55Jack:In 16, 17, I know we didn't win the league and I know a Chelsea fan will listen to this and say, ha ha, that's typically... We were the best team in the country. we were the best team in the country we just were

48:11having won the trophy if someone said to you you can go and relive 2014 to 2019 of what Spurs were like you won't win a trophy but you'll get to live it I'd say where do I sign

48:23Jack:yeah yeah 100 % 100 % that feeling but mate that's that's the bobbins loser mentality isn't it mate fine that's it I'm a European champion I'm not sure you know we are all European champions we've done it we've done we've written off all the banter so now we can have bobbins again it's fine right let's do some questions let's do some questions Bat Merton on Twitter says assume a scenario like when and I've done this because we're talking about this now assume a scenario like when Potch cleared out the old guard and went completely fresh with a team of talented youngsters to start his dynasty with Name your, take us into the next five years starting XI.

49:07Jack:Basically, who do you bin off out of the old guard from this one, I guess? Assuming that football teams generally work on, what would you say, three-year cycles, that a team is recognisable for about three years, I think you could have the back four. You need a new goalkeeper. I think Graham Bergvall could be the two in midfield. I think you've got Kudus and one of Kulusevsky and Simon's, and then you need two really quality. If you can just, you know, just sign Kane and Son again. Can't be that hard, can it? We need, do you know, I feel like we need somebody to really replace. I suppose, does Gray replace Benzincur?

49:51Jack:Is that his function? What is it, number eight, I guess? I think you'd be disappointed if Gray wasn't better than Benzincur now, no? Oh yeah, I mean, I start, if I'm asked, I start Gray over Bentancur every game. Bentancur, I just feel like is a waste of a shirt a lot of the time now. Yeah, so if I'm projecting the next great Tottenham team made up of youngsters, I at least want to see if Graeme Bergwahl can do it. And if not, then you can buy someone to replace it. But I think there's enough quality there that you can close one eye and squint with the other and see a functional Spurs team going forward with those two in midfield.

50:25Jack:definitely where are you out of Polini by the way are you you know do you take him up on the 20 odd mil option or do you just say no thanks thanks for the season I wouldn't do that but I also think he's a great player who is serving more people just are waiting for him to misplace a pass and I think that colors so much of how they watch him play yes fine show me your hexagons or whatever and yeah he's not progressive but he does a lot of thankless stuff that I think is important and yeah maybe he wouldn't start for the Champions League finalists, but newsflash, we are not there yet. And we need, I'd sooner play him than Ben to call the majority.

51:02A hundred percent.

51:03Jack:A hundred percent. And I agree with you entirely. I think, like you say, there is that level of confirmation bias, isn't there? That he isn't Rodri, but okay, who is? Yeah. Because these are the names I keep seeing floated. Well, we need a Rodri, we need a Casado. Yeah, but who doesn't? And those players cost you over a hundred million pounds. So great. If we can get that, fine. But we saw last year how easy it was to run through Spurs. And I think you're being disingenuous if you can't at least admit that Polina has allowed us at least a certain level of defensive control, right? Yes, it might affect, it might hamper our progressive play.

51:47Jack:I think we can all, you know, you've just conceded that there. I think we can all accept that. but Spurs can't just be a free-for-all. We can't just concede goals. I mean, but we have, somebody would say we have conceded a lot of goals this season as well, which is probably fair. I don't know. He just, he tackles well. He gets stuck in, right? Wallop. We need a bit more of that nowadays, right? Spurs for us says, do you think the recent good form dash results is evidence of Frank turning the corner and showing that he needs more time? or is it simply that he has finally picked some decent starting XI, including Xavi?

52:25Jack:For what it's worth, Spurs Sufferer says, I think it's the latter. I think that's a pretty hard question to answer without throwing an option C of it's been Brentford and Slavia Prague at home who are not particularly good opposition. Now, I suppose you could throw back that, well, there was Fulham who are no better. so I'd probably lean more to the case of he's picking the players that should be playing but whether or not he has stumbled on something that's going to start beating Liverpool, Bournemouth, Palace that we've got, you know, Forest even. I think that the next five or six league games will answer that question better than the previous two in a funny way.

53:10Jack:i i honestly i can't believe we've got liverpool at a point when they're at their almost lowest deb and we're sort of seemingly starting to grow especially if we beat forest yeah if we beat forest at the city ground and then we got liverpool after that i mean we all know which way that one's going anyway don't we like yeah i mean it's five thirty on a saturday yeah god that they'll have the trumpeter skydiving or something into the stadium playing i won the spurs they'll make such a big hash of it and then ecotico score inside two minutes again and we'll just burst the bubble straight away it's quite funny i actually just just anecdotally i filmed something at anfield yesterday humble brag and all that no um just filming some stuff with like some of the fans and they're always very interested to know you know who you support i'm a spurs fan and they're all kind of oh sorry mate kind of thing you know they know that they know the the power they have over us and i was like yes yeah it's never a particularly happy hunting ground this one but one of them one of the older boys was saying um i don't know it feels like in some ways we are sort of rent free in their heads i think in the 60s i think it was under bill nick he was saying in the 60s we beat him like i think we beat him about 7-0 7-1 at home um when they sort of thought they were turning a corner and we put them back in their box a bit because we were like the best team in the country at that point i think they'd beaten us at anfield earlier on in the season it It was like a big significant result for them.

54:34Jack:And we'd beaten him about 7-1. And he was saying since that day, I've always wanted to beat Tottenham. I love beating Spurs. It just, you're always like one of the first teams I look for where we always want to beat you. We always feel like we want to beat you because it's one of those things. And we got that as well after we beat him at Wembley, didn't we? You know, Jürgen Klopp always used to go on about how we were the face on the dartboard for them. Why do they all hate us? Why does every cup hate us? We're the people in that meme just sitting eating our chips and everyone else is fighting.

55:04We're just trying to mind our own business. Leave us alone.

55:07Jack:No, leave us alone. Let's just, can't we just win something every now and again? You know, let's have another league. Jack C here for Spurs says, which players do we have that you both feel could realistically make a PFA Premier League team of the year within the next three years? There's a lot of talk about our talent deficiency. But I'm intrigued on your thoughts on where they are at against players in their positions across the league. I'm going to go big and I'm going to say Archie Gray. I think he, I genuinely think he could be one of the best midfielders in the league. I really, I really do feel like he's pretty, maybe I'm being bought into the kind of the gray dynasty thing, but I just, the, even the piecemeal instances that we see him play for Spurs, I think he looks brilliant.

55:58Jack:Who else to maybe, maybe Xavi. I don't know. I've always been a massive Doggy fan and it's so frustrating that he can't stay healthy enough. He just can't stay fit, can he? I don't think he's being helped by the fact that he's never had a credible backup. If you've got a guy that you know breaks down, the first thing you'd want to do is make sure you've got someone that can play the games away at Newcastle in the League Cup so he doesn't have to play, for example, whatever. I know you've got Spence, but you can't have three fullbacks for two positions in a 60-game season. It's just, you know, Porro, I'm not Porro's biggest fan, but at least credit him.

56:31He's normally always there and available and always willing to play and puts a shift in. But I think Adogui's been let down a lot by not having a credible backup. But he's the one that always, I've always thought if you put the whole squad up for sale, Adogui would be the one that would fetch maybe the most money at his very, very best. But unfortunately, it feels that we're drifting away from that because we just can't keep the guy on the pitch.

56:55Jack:no it's it's just another in those long line of tottenham players who i think we're going to be saying he would have been great were he not a croc really which it feels that way um i don't want to start blaming angie postacoglu for that in part but i kind of want to you know it's your show mate you do whatever you want yeah but i can't be bothered for the backlash right i can't we bothered i mean i'm gonna get it now from saying that i blame ang um so there we go i don't i don't really engage with good engagement you know the draw um let's see what else we got i got fion blue sky here so charlie meacham on blue sky says do you agree that this week has been genuinely seismic for frank after the way we've been playing this season i totally lost hope in him these past two games though it's really felt like he's understood where fans are coming from and the home crowd seems to have responded it feels better i mean we've we've sort of naturally spoken about this over the over the course of the show um but any reflections on that from charlie adam uh again i think it's a really tough question to answer without seeing what's coming uh that's a real deflection and ducking the question um i'll say no a cautious no with a hopeful yes to come that maybe we have turned the corner but i'm still i'm just not there yet on all of it to be honest

58:24Jack:bjorn sandberg on blue sky says this is quite a good one if you had to take one spurs player to your work christmas party who would it be and why i'm self-employed with one employee uh so it could be a very intimate affair yeah who would you want to sit down have a chat with then the freelancers we'll get the freelancers in as well that could be fun um it's a real shame because i'm 38 now so i'm just not even even close to the age where you can uh sort of interact with these guys on a level um who would i have i don't want to have dead air i think ben davis would be interesting but maybe i'm just picking the oldest person so it's the most relatable because he's your age yeah quite possibly um i do think he'd be good i actually think he'd be good value though i think he seems like he's got a pretty dry decent sense of humor to be honest yeah i don't really buy the sort of the boring moniker that he's he's got hanging over him i'll go the exact opposite way and i'll say richarlison because it would just be interesting to see how a brain like that functions for four or five hours because he really is mad as a box of frogs isn't he yeah and i was i feel that if you had romero out of you you'd definitely get in a punch up depending on where you went into london you know he'd definitely be like what are you looking at you know across the bar what what's wrong mate you got an issue and fun ensues um anthony mcdonald says archie gray is he a starter every game now or do we have to manage his game time given he's only 19 fair point a fair point yeah I mean look no one is a starter in every game right you know no one's going to play 60 games but if you say uh my Saturday to Saturday weekly best team that is my sort of home page team I think Gray absolutely should be in that and I would put Bergvall right next to him and say you've got nine months or eight months show me what you've got and then we'll reassess next season if we need anything else because your people are very willing to throw Gray in we've got to see what we've got it's his time and i don't know why you wouldn't just do the same thing with bergval because it's not like there's someone else that he'd be taking a shirt off that is definitely more deserving if you're saying that i'm going to watch graham benton core every week give me graham bergval over that every time frankincense golden spurs that's quite good um says what's that's at mark scrivens on blue sky says what does it say about our strikers that kudos is now our designated penalty taker but then in bracket says if anything it could be irrelevant yeah um i don't know if maybe because richarlison missed that first penalty or the penalty last time that they're just doing on a rotation i don't know about you i did not fancy kudis when he stepped i didn't at all i i'm glad you said that i said to my dad yeah yeah no no no not having this um but yeah the cynic in me i know that it was in front of the south stand and the social media manager had his stool ready to go and maybe there was content that had to be made that dictated that could have took it it did feel odd that richardison didn't take the penalty um but they obviously have their reasons were you watching on tv yeah yeah yeah for the second penalty i don't know if my eyes deceived me but did romero pretend that he was going to take it and then said no no actually you can have it because i couldn't work out what had happened it looked like simons was annoyed and then oh actually no it was a joke i feel like he was just kind of guarding it to i don't know make a decision as a captain or something.

1:01:57Jack:I'm fine. I'm not sure. There definitely was something quite bizarre going on. And they referenced it. Even the commentators referenced it saying like, oh, Romero's given the board to Xavi now. Xavi looks, Xavi looks happy. Xavi did need that as well. I think, didn't he? He'd completely made that penalty as well. So, oh, here's a nice spicy one to close, to close the show out. JT at JT Spurs man on blue sky says, Pedro Porro, not a serious defender is he yeah i'm just not having him overall like again i respect the work rate and he's always there but he strikes me as the kind of player that if he was up for sale tomorrow how many of the best clubs would be really knocking our door down to get him um would would newcastle or villa want him do you know what i mean i mean would they replace matty cash with him yeah i'm not sure there's many you know rule the rule the villain podcast that are sitting on their show this morning and saying, you know what, I'd love Pedro Porro ahead of Matty Cash.

1:02:57I think his ceiling is really high, Porro. I wish he was a bit more careful with the ball. And I know that a lot of that is that he's probably designated as one of those guys that does need to be progressive, for want of a better term. But for me, there's a fine line between progression and hoofing. And there's a lot of times where I just feel Porro is just whacking it upfield to see what happens as opposed to being a bit more cautious in possession. Maybe that will come with a sense of midfielder in front of him that's more used to taking the ball and turning. But yeah, Porro's not for me as much as I respect that he can do some things well.

1:03:31Jack:If I was being generous, I would say that your Villas and your Newcastles, although they might not, in terms from a fan perspective, he feels like the type of signing if they were to make, they wouldn't have gone out into a summer like you say and said, oh, I really want us to get Petro Porro. But he feels like the sort of signing that you make towards the end of a window where you think, okay i'll take that you know he's he's all right because i do i do think he has a lot of quality and i do like his passion spell sh um but i guess the epiphany i had in the past few weeks was i just don't i don't really think it's all right for us to always say poro's good but he can't defend when that's one of the sort of primary functions of his role you know and i get it i get it's not the be all and end all in the sort of system that we play in the way in which football is played now um you know they're not like gary neville anymore for example but at the same time he doesn't need to i mean spence has proved that he can do both right spence is a progressive player spence can take the ball forwards he can drift inside he can create he can set things up and he can defend really quite well as well um i just you know i I probably would say I'm not as far on the sort of, you know, I'm not having Porro as maybe you are, but I definitely think he's somebody that we maybe need to look to.

1:05:00Jack:I don't think it's imperative. I don't think it's an urgent improvement we need, but I do think in time we need to get somebody that can maybe do a bit more defensively than he can, right? I think if I get to watch Spence and Ndoggi play as fullbacks for 10 games and it clearly doesn't work because Spence isn't up to it, then maybe I'll fancy Porro more than I currently do. But there's just that bit nagging at me thinking that I know, I'm sure that Spence could be a really good right back who's given a proper run of games. He's just never given the chance to do it. So it's maybe in that sort of Pochettino way that I just want to see it happen again.

1:05:32Maybe I've got that little bit of resentment in the back of my mind. I just want to see, show me that Spence can't do it and then maybe I'll back the other guy a bit more.

1:05:41Jack:And it's been an absolute pleasure talking to you, mate. tell us tell us a bit more about an echo of glory while we can watch it where we can listen to it uh it's youtube uh normally every monday at 10 o 'clock um and on all your good and bad podcast providers echo of glory is four or five of us that just like to have a natter and moan about spurs probably similar way in which you guys do it nothing too reactionary and try and keep it on a level and uh yeah it's always good to flap our guns about the mighty spurs it's worth pointing out as well and something that i'm you know low-key jealous about it is all done in the studio as well yeah we're very lucky to have that it's nice it's nice it adds a natural dynamic to things doesn't it yeah it does and look hey you never know one day it's a bit it's nice to uh if you want to give someone a real glare across the studio it's quite a nice nice way to be able to do it you have to uh do you ever get rival fans on would you ever would you ever entertain any of that get a get a gold bridge or somebody down into the studio you know have some get a nice big viral moment with them i think we do uh we do have the opposition view every uh every week so we try and get a visiting fan on so uh i'm not quite sure we'd uh sink to that would he do forest or man united gold bridge there we go there we go um it's been an absolute pleasure though adam and anything else around this this time of year you mentioned you are you are self-employed so if you want to plug anything go for it mate we've got a christmas menu for our catering thing that if you want to have a look at we can deliver all over London um but yeah no look thank you very much for having me it's always a pleasure and um yeah I'm really looking forward to seeing you guys celebrate your first Christmas as uh as a little family which is lovely oh thank you very much mate yeah really looking forward to it um much luck oh you've got me there mate that's uh I'm a bit overwhelmed um thank you cheers mate pleasure

1:07:40Well, Lorenzo, the pitch looked good. Yeah, so green. USA Keeper was decent enough. Didn't have much to do. Ugh, 99 minutes. Not a single goal. Well, Bet365 sure came through, though.

1:07:54Jack:I bet$10 and got$150 in bonus bets, just for signing up. At least someone scored. Bet365. Winning is everything. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER. 21 plus only. Must be physically located in Illinois. T-S &C Supply. In-app only. You can't reason with the sun. Trust us. We've tried. This summer, it's time to put that angry ball of fire on mute. Columbia's OmniShade technology is engineered to protect you from the sun's harsh rays that can burn and damage your skin. The sun is relentless, but so is our gear. Level up your summer at Columbia.com to spend more time outside and less time slathering on aloe lotion.

1:08:33Jack:You're welcome. Columbia. Engineered for whatever.