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Rule The Roost - Podcast Episode Summary
Episode Title
Who Is To Blame For Tottenham? | Best "Worst" Players, The Podcaster Problem & Protests (Q&A)
Description In this insightful episode, host Jack is joined by guest Lara to delve into the troubling landscape surrounding Tottenham Hotspur, addressing key questions about the club's current struggles. They explore blame allocation, examine past players, discuss the media's role in fan sentiment, and outline potential avenues for protest against the club's management.
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Key Themes and Discussions
Current State of Tottenham Hotspur
- Feelings of Hopelessness: Both Jack and Lara express a sense of despair regarding Tottenham's performance, suggesting that the team has been in a downward spiral for several years.
- Culpability:
- Discussion revolves around whether the blame lies solely with the board (Enic, Lange, Venkatesham) or if players themselves should also take responsibility for their performances.
- The conversation highlights the departure of key players and how it has exacerbated the team's issues.
The Role of Key Players
- Harry Kane and Son Heung-min: They are debated as both the best and worst aspects of Tottenham in the last decade, as their success obscured deeper issues within the club.
- Which Old Players to Reintroduce: Listeners contemplate which past players, deemed "best worst," could improve the current squad—suggestions include Nacer Chadli and Eric Lamela.
The Media Landscape and Fan Sentiment
- Negativity in Spurs Podcasts: The duo addresses the perception that many Spurs-related podcasts contribute to negativity around the club. They argue that these podcasts reflect genuine fan frustrations rather than create them.
- Protests Against Management: A strong emphasis is placed on the need for organized fan protests, especially if Tottenham's performance does not improve.
Culture and Team Morale
- Lack of Cohesion: There is a consensus that the current squad lacks motivation and unity, contributing to poor performances. Lara mentions that there seem to be cliques within the team that hinder collective effort.
- Comparisons to Past Eras: The episode draws parallels with previous coaching periods, suggesting that while Thomas Frank struggled to motivate players, former manager Ange Postecoglou had a better ability to rally the team.
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Actionable Insights
- Fan Engagement:
- Suggestions for improving fan engagement include making protests constructive and clear in their goals. The importance of rallying fans around a shared manifesto is emphasized.
- Cultural Shift Needed: The need for a cultural reset within the club is highlighted, stressing that both management and players must take accountability for their roles in the current crisis.
Conclusion and Crumbs of Comfort
- Small Positives:
- The episode ends on a somewhat hopeful note, with Lara mentioning the potential return of former manager Pochettino and the possibility of upcoming kit designs as small bright spots in a gloomy situation.
- Long-Term Outlook: There is an overarching sentiment that without significant changes, the cycle of disappointment will continue.
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Final Thoughts This episode of Rule The Roost encapsulates the frustrations of Spurs fans, exploring complex themes of accountability, nostalgia for past players, and the need for a unified response to the current management crisis. With a mix of analysis and fan sentiment, Jack and Lara deliver an engaging discourse reflective of the larger community's concerns surrounding Tottenham Hotspur.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOCurrent State of Tottenham
2:23 to 4:08
Discussion on Tottenham's recent performance and fan sentiments.
“I mean, I haven't done that intentionally, but still, it does seem to be.”
Management and Player Accountability
4:08 to 5:31
Examining the roles of management and players in the club's challenges.
“Basically, all of our best players have gone, of which there aren't actually that many.”
Club Structure and Strategy Issues
5:31 to 8:10
Analyzing Tottenham's structural problems and lack of strategic planning.
“I'm looking, I'm looking at, and look, like you say, we have to try and find positives.”
Historical Context of Tottenham's Challenges
8:10 to 10:13
How Tottenham's past has shaped its current struggles in football.
“But I don't think this club is – it doesn't know how to handle something like a relegation fight.”
Criticism of Ownership and Future Concerns
10:13 to 14:03
Discussion on the ownership's impact and future outlook for the club.
“Look what Buda Glimt are doing in the Champions League right now for these so-called easy games that we got in the run-up to that.”
The Greed of Club Ownership
14:03 to 15:00
Exploring the motivations behind club ownership and the impact of greed.
“No, but it's weird and it's worrying, isn't it?”
Complacency in Football Management
15:01 to 17:18
Discussing the complacency of football clubs and its effects on performance.
“if you build it, they will come type thing that you do feel has probably permeated the thinking on some level at a boardroom level in that, well, we were all right.”
Transfers and Recruitment Failures
17:19 to 19:30
Analyzing Tottenham's recent transfer strategy and recruitment failures.
“Because the thing is they didn't just take their eye off it, Laura.”
Loss of Club Identity
19:31 to 21:53
Reflecting on how Tottenham has lost its identity and competitive edge.
Underperformance Despite Talent
26:17 to 28:02
Discussing the missed opportunities and underperformance of Tottenham's squad.
Show all 25 chapters
Discussing Paul Coyt's Impact
28:02 to 29:15
Exploration of Paul Coyt's role and fan expectations at Tottenham.
“You know, that's what it feels like here, you know?”
Fan Experience and Season Tickets
29:15 to 30:28
Reflections on the fan experience and the commitment to season tickets despite frustrations.
“But we're not Luton Town who drops two leagues in two seasons or whatever.”
The Challenge of Championship Football
30:28 to 33:03
Discussion on the potential challenges Tottenham may face if relegated to the Championship.
Game of Thrones Analogy
33:03 to 34:18
Using a Game of Thrones analogy to illustrate Tottenham's precarious situation.
“We would be an exiled Jaime Lannister thinking that all your heirs and graces of being some sort of prince with your artistic sword fighting and everything would serve you well.”
Regrets Over Past Transfers
34:18 to 36:28
Discussion on missed transfer opportunities and the implications for the team.
“How many of those have we got over the years?”
Debating Former Players' Value
36:28 to 39:05
Debate on which former Spurs players would be valuable additions to the current squad.
“I think we'll be one of the best players in this team right now.”
Impact of Negative Podcasts
39:05 to 42:06
Discussing whether negative content in Spurs podcasts contributes to fan malaise.
Behind the Team: The Importance of Support
42:06 to 43:20
Discussion on the need for fan support during challenging times for Tottenham.
“And I think the atmosphere in the stadium is probably what matters more.”
Current Players and Unlikable Dynamics
44:00 to 48:15
Exploration of the current Tottenham squad's relationship with fans and performance issues.
“Los Angeles Golf Club versus New York Golf Club.”
Cultural Issues Within Tottenham
48:16 to 51:40
Analyzing the toxic culture within the club and its impact on player attitudes.
“I don't really want to just chuck, you know, he's a young bloke.”
Fan Protests and Community Engagement
51:41 to 54:55
Discussing strategies for improving fan engagement and the potential for protests.
Injury Crisis and Its Psychological Impact
54:56 to 56:01
Debating whether injuries are affecting player performance and psyche.
Conspiracy Theories and Injuries
56:01 to 57:22
The discussion revolves around theories regarding pitch conditions and their impact on player injuries.
“And that's not a very convincing argument, is it?”
Crumbs of Comfort for Tottenham Fans
57:22 to 59:26
The hosts explore the few positive aspects and potential future changes for Tottenham amidst a challenging season.
“I mean, not everybody loves that, but I would second the majority of people quite happy about the idea of that.”
Reflections on Rivalries and Fan Sentiments
59:26 to 1:01:10
A candid discussion about the ongoing rivalries, fan frustrations, and coping mechanisms during tough times.
Transcript
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2:21Hello, everybody.
2:22Jack:Welcome back to Rule the Roots podcast. It's doom time at Tottenham Hotspur. So I've rung the bell, Lara. I've rung the bell. I mean, I haven't done that intentionally, but still, it does seem to be. I think that's more, can I just say, I think that's less a reflection on you and more a reflection on Tottenham having just been abysmal for like three years, if not more now.
2:46Lara:Yeah, I was thinking this earlier. I was like I feel like every time I come on it's like this is as bad as it's gonna get and like oh you know next time will there'll be something no no very McCarthy face it's getting worse yeah yeah oh it can yeah it really can get worse oh god what a club I mean look there's there's lots to dive
3:06Jack:into I guess it's it's at times like this I like to sort of ask basically every guest the same question which is where are you at right now mate how are you feeling in general about all of it I
3:17Lara:guess ah mate just what what a mess I think is the I'm kind in the same place I've been for a while now obviously Bilbao was a bit of a nice holiday from all of that um it just feels I think I feel a bit hopeless is probably the best description I think it's just we're so directionless and it's like we've watched a car crash happening in slow motion over like the last 10 years almost and yeah now it feels like yeah it's at the moment I'm having to sort of like tune out of a lot of times I was super busy at work which is kind of helping a little bit doesn't give too much time to dwell on it but yeah every time you know it's bare minimum watch the game turn it off after you know occasional twitter meltdown but it's it's really tough at the moment it's tough to find any positives isn't it i mean look one of the main things that we're
4:21Jack:we're all sort of doing as a as a fan base and have been doing for the past however long is saying this is enix fault this is now more recently sort of langer and venkatesham's fault um there's no other way to see it than that is there right i mean like i do think i don't really agree that it lets the players off the hook i do think the players at some point do have to take some sort of culpability but what we are seeing here now and you know i think it has been realized in the most dramatic and drastic of fashions but when you lose a few of your and i can't just say a few when you lose pretty much the majority of your best players, which is the freakish sort of circumstance, the perfect storm that's happened for Tottenham this season, right?
5:14Jack:Basically, all of our best players have gone, of which there aren't actually that many. And you're left with your squad that you've assembled over the past however many years. It really has shifted into full focus quite how poor the job the people at the top of the club have been doing, doesn't it? Because this team doesn't look for a purpose. I'm looking, I'm looking at, and look, like you say, we have to try and find positives. I agree with that. And I understand that. And I don't want, well, this is it because it should be in our own hands. We've got Forrest at home in a few weeks. And yet I'm sat here looking at Forrest thinking that's the team at the bottom of the league, but that's a team that fights.
5:54Jack:It's a physical team. They're strong. They're quick. What have we got that's even going to bother them?
6:01Lara:you know yeah I think that's the big that's the biggest thing for me is that it feels like the fight has just gone from this team and even as a club like I say it's been a lot you know long slow car crash and you know thank god Thomas Frank has gone now and it's one of those where actually you know as I've sort of said many times previously the manager I think at this point is a bit of red herring in all of this you know it's chronicness management from the top doesn't really matter I don't think massively who you put in charge we're going to keep having these same problems again because we are stuck in this never-ending cycle of shit um but I do think where one I did where I think Thomas Frank was just an absolute disaster of an appointment is he just couldn't motivate these players the the fight is just gone I mean that's the one thing I'll say for Andrew I know he's very polarizing um I was never kind of as panty as a lot of people but I think the one thing he did have is he could get a team motivated.
7:03Lara:I know there'll be people listening to it now going, oh, where was he motivating them when we were losing 22 games in the league or whatever, but you've heard them say it. He had that ability. If there was one superpower he had, it was that get up, get them rolled up, tell a story, get them all pulling behind the same thing. I think we just, frankly, just lost that, and you could see it. Those players were never going to fight for him. it was that was the starkest contrast I think from last year where obviously it was an absolute mess in the league people can believe Ange or not of what he said about binning the league off or whatever but there were signs even through that I remember some of them we were really under the cosh and I remember getting pelt us on Twitter from people for it actually because I put out a tweet and I was like these players are fighting for Ange like he's got you can see like some of it is a capability problem but you can see there's something where they are kind of together and fighting and yeah we've just cut with this we just didn't have that at all you could see it was getting worse and worse and worse and now it's got to the point where i'm just like i don't know if someone can turn this around like eagle tudor's got a hell of a job on his hands i mean i think we saw a bit more fight at the beginning of the arsenal game um but like my dad's theory was with that was you know we ran out of steam because they've basically been stood around under frank for so long that you know a lot of them don't look really fit to then go and sort of really press a team or whatever but i just think we're so lacking in that motivation and fight and everything is so fragmented and you know it's like under under range there was definitely a bit of a i think he definitely fostered a bit of a sort of like us against them mentality and sometimes that was against the fans uh but it was mainly that whole thing you know we're going against that Spursy narrative there was something there with you know where those players kind of came together with a bit of a siege mentality but now it feels like the siege mentality is kind of against us as well like and even within themselves I think I don't think that then I think that I feel like there's sort of pockets within the team you know like you can end up with those cliques or whatever I just nothing feels cohesive and I think that's really really dangerous when you find yourself in a relegation battle.
9:19Lara:We're not primed for this. The fans are primed in some ways. We are experts in disappointment. But I don't think this club is – it doesn't know how to handle something like a relegation fight. It's never been in it. That's not the sort of squad we've put together. I mean, I don't know what we've put together the squad for because it doesn't seem capable of anything. But, yeah.
9:44Jack:well I mean because I think that part of it and I agree with you and I've been thinking about this is that we're a club that like looks up you know it's like it's our it's our mo isn't it to dare us to do the the dreamers all that type of thing that you know I know people will mug us off and I know you know rival fans will but still compared to the majority of clubs in this country we've got a glorious history we're still capable of doing stuff like Bilbao you know and people can say whatever they want, they can try and take away from that. Look what Buda Glimt are doing in the Champions League right now for these so-called easy games that we got in the run-up to that.
10:22But like you say, our problem has always been...
10:26Jack:Look, it's not to say we don't lose to teams bigger than us, but we do have those glory, glory nights. We have always been capable of showing up and doing an Arsenal or a Chelsea or a United, whatever. you know we can do that and we can make a good show of it as well where we've mainly always come unstuck is your west broms and your wolves and those horrible gnarly fixtures um where you really need to dig in and we've got 11 of those now and it is a it's a worry it's a it's it's a concern I mean, do you, I think part of the problem that Igor Tudor faces is that the players he actually has available to him, and this is a point I'm nicking from one of the other podcasts, but I'm sort of expanding on it a little bit because I thought it was good.
11:21Jack:is that the players that he has available to him don't really fit a formation you could you couldn't look at the players that we have and say right well we can play this way or he should play that way or this is the sort of tactical approach because they're all all over the place and this again surely just highlights the fact that more often than not the players that we end up signing are opportunistic ones they're not signed with a real like plan or a ethos or a footballing philosophy behind them they're signed because they're available and they know they'll fit within our restrictive wage structure isn't it yeah exactly yeah it's all a bit trying to make a dinner out of what's left in the fridge at the moment isn't it it's exactly that it's like
12:09Lara:Have you got a can of tomatoes done? Yeah, we're not very good with our sort of meal planning. We haven't planned our meals. We sort of ended up with half a can of baked beans and sausage or something. I don't know. But yeah, it's exactly that. It is an absolute failure of any sort of long-term strategic planning and vision. And I think the biggest failure of Enoch as a broadcaster, I honestly think they just thought the stadium was enough. It's like the build it and they will come. But it's just not. It's just literally and metaphorically took their eye off the ball for way, way too long. And somehow thought that and clinging on to the hope that somehow financial fair play was actually going to grow some teeth, which it never is.
13:04Lara:so it's that you know keep hearing noises now about oh spurs are gonna rip up the wage structure in the summer and all of that it's like lads the time to do that was like 10 years ago like you're way too late i just and and it's it's put in some ways it's pointless kind of moaning about it now but because what can what can you do the transfer window is closed if the owners leave now what's going to change tomorrow to save us from this you know immediate peril that we find ourselves in you know that right at the moment screaming about the board doesn't it doesn't help where we are but it doesn't change the fact that that is the fundamental issue like they've just they've had too they've had so long in charge of this club they've been there way too long and it's like how many chances do you want like you've had 25 years if you've if you've not done it by now like it really is time to like just admit you don't know what you're doing and just go like how much money do you want out of this club you've made millions like what are you getting I don't know what are you getting out of still owning this club loads of money well I suppose yeah it's ongoing money but I mean that's this greed upon greed in it I mean if they sold the club what they're gonna get billions so just can you just go it's a little bit like being like you know when you're a kid and you're in the playground and someone's on the swings and they just won't get off it's like you just let one of the other kids have a go now i i just yeah i just think they're real i just think they're they're maybe there is some capability there i don't see it you know at that board level we obviously we don't sit in those meetings or whatever but i just think it is it is too late it's too late like we're in this mess now and yeah we should it should never have been allowed to get to this point and I probably sound like a really entitled Premier League fan now.
14:57Jack:No, but it's weird and it's worrying, isn't it? Because like you say, there is that sort of if you build it, they will come type thing that you do feel has probably permeated the thinking on some level at a boardroom level in that, well, we were all right. You know, Kane and Son came along and when they go, someone else will come along and be really good. Yeah, we spent all that money on Richarlison. He plays number nine for Brazil. So, you know, he'll probably be really good or Solanke, you know, he's like the best striker outside of, you know, the top five, six clubs. So, of course, he can probably step up and it's, it just feels like there's so little care put into what is the top.
15:41Jack:And, you know, I know people think it's a bit Brexit and stuff to say this, but the Premier League is, it's the toughest league in the world. It is. There's so much money. there's so much money at every single level in the premier league now like pretty much every pretty much every single club aside for those ones that are performative like you know brentford and brighton and stuff oh you know we use data but still most clubs are absolutely minted now it doesn't really matter so much about like the stature of the club the history of it so much I think that does probably come in in pieces. I'm not going to discount that entirely.
16:19Jack:But at the same time, money speaks. Villa, how have they turned it around? I wonder, you know, like where they're sat right now, sat basically in the place we've been sat for however long, being the sort of the challenger, if you like, to the established elite. How have they managed to do that? I wonder in the space of three or four years, maybe a little bit more, but still it's spending loads of money guys like the team the teams around you aren't going to sit back and let Tottenham be the big six club the one that kind of oh he's Spursy you know they didn't quite win the league but they're still in the Champions League so we'll have made 300 million pounds that season like the hubris and the arrogance to just think that we would just exist at that level without making the sort of monumental effort that the teams around us have been doing now for some time is staggering.
17:17Jack:And it's really, really – it's coming back. Because the thing is they didn't just take their eye off it, Laura. They just got arrogant with it.
17:25Lara:Yeah. Complacent.
17:28Jack:Yeah. Look at this. And honestly, it triggers me so much when I think about it. this January window, our, our, our strategy was get Semenyo. What get one of the most sought after players in the league who his contract was coming to an end or whatever, or he had a release clause that was, wasn't going to break the earth. What was it? 60 million pound release cause for one of the best players in the league outside of, again, the top five, top six teams. Everybody knew Liverpool were fancied him. Arsenal maybe fancied him. City fancied him. and what's the while strategy was let's try and get Semenya oh that didn't happen oh well we don't
18:07Lara:want to panic then what they don't want to panic thing that that really triggers me oh we did you know it's good because we didn't want to panic I think maybe you should have panicked like this is the this is the time to panic like when you're and you're about to get relegated Bournemouth have
18:25Jack:replaced they've lost Semenya their best player and then signed Manchester City's future superstar and Ryan like have you seen him like he's unbelievable and this is a player that people keep pointing out to me we were linked to two three years ago oh our scouting is abominable
18:41Lara:honestly I don't even know what it is like at this point it's making me almost think Steve Hitchin was doing a good job like obviously I don't think it helps that you know Paratici's gone because that was some I mean what even was that let's wait for three years for him to come back from his ban give him the job make him share it with Lange do a big song and dance about how these two directors of football thing is a really good idea guys and it's really going to work and then oh
19:04Jack:whoops two months later he's gone i mean let's be honest make him share make him share it with an incompetent as well and i think i i feel emboldened to say that of johann langer now to
19:14Lara:be honest with you well i feel like with langer it's the same thing as like as as with thomas frank you know there's this thing it comes back to everything and it's been said on so many podcasts i'm just rehashing what everyone else has said but it's so it's so right we lost our identity as a club we don't know what we are we don't know what we want to be so we just sort of get you know stragglers from here there well they'll do you know well they work there try this we haven't got our own vision of what is it we're trying to do trying to be you know as ang said you know everywhere there is to do but the actions are the antithesis of that um as i said before think what you want about him but you can't say that that's wrong like it's that it's it's all just sort of oh let's try and nick this thing that worked elsewhere I mean Lange didn't even work elsewhere so what were you basing that on um I I do wonder whether really it was Paratici giving the job and Lange sort of as a you know just a one of those sort of not it's not vanity I can't think of the right word for it it's um I'll keep him happy by saying it's a job it's a kind of job sharing name only do you know what I mean like and Paratici really was the man they're probably just didn't foresee the same way they didn't foresee him getting banned for this thing that clearly was going to come back and you know why did we appoint him there's just there's so many of these decisions over sort of recent years and I think it is it is more so over the last decade really I feel like you know early days Enoch did some stuff you know the whole thing around the the stadium that whole plan you know that's a big infrastructure project yay well done you know we've all given them the flowers for that and that did you know elevated us to a point but i do think it's that since we grew to a sort of certain size it's just been ongoing like clear that they don't know what they're like clear that they don't know what they're doing and it's not so much that it's oh no this is a strict strategy and we're sticking to it it's almost like you just don't actually know what you're doing do you guys like some real like dropping the ball things like to me that whole power teacher appointment and eka signed some great players for a sign my favorite color zew scheme miss you so much um but that was really unleavy i thought at the time to appoint someone who had that level of risk on him it's like he must someone must have done the research and gone hang on a minute lads there is this just fyi there is this charge that might be coming that you know could get him a massive ban um that's that's very unus i think to have done something like that but those type of things I feel like are happening more and more now just like a lack of knowing how to handle a you know club of this size now really um I just I don't think they foresaw that Fiorentina would come in and he'd go okay thanks lads but bye I just yeah I don't think they they pre-planned for that and then it's almost like everything that happens it's like how can we spin it how do we spin it what's the spin we're going to put on this and but johan lennar good god like um wow that was a long waffle i remembered what i was going to say originally now completely completely awful you're in the right place for it you're in the right place for it don't worry yeah it's just again looking at the what we put in place so after we you know we've just won our first european trophy in 40 years we are flying high you know everybody is on a vibe after that so who do you bring in Thomas Frank master motivator and then who's the guy kind of leading your football strategy is Johan Langer I mean that video they put out that eight minute long one after the transfer I made it two minutes in I couldn't say so boring I was like oh there's no and I know that's not really his job to know to speak but you just think where is the energy and the i don't know in any of this i don't see it anywhere everybody's so like there's no excitement is there no there's nothing and that's so not and that's what i mean about having lost our identity you know that's not spurs you know i'm not saying we have to be the greatest team in the world you know we are but we have always been excited we are chaos in some ways one way or the other you know that's where the whole spursy thing came from is that you know you'll lose to West Brom and then go out the next week and smash Man City or whatever but one thing we have never been is boring and I do feel like especially over the past until Frank went I've always said when we used to go to like White Hart Lane back in the day you know you Stoke City's a turn up and Hull and that who would you know they'd time waste from like the first minute and you think can like their fans really actually like enjoy watching this every week and I feel like I've had like the full whole like 2011 experience this season and oh my god no it is not enjoyable it's very very boring and just I just feel like everything we did that whole opportunity we had after Bilbao yet again the club was gifted an opportunity they absolutely didn't deserve and they should have been thanking their lucky stars same way as when we lucked upon Harry Kane coming out of our youth system, that should have been the moment to go, oh, shit, we've got this thing.
24:32Lara:Like, we really don't deserve this, but somehow we've got this thing. Like, we must do something with it. No, just chuck that in the seat. Like, it's that same thing again and again.
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26:03Jack:Helping you quickly write, analyze, create, and summarize. So you can cut through clutter and clear a path to your best work. Learn more at Microsoft.com slash M365 Copilot. but we look we're talking about literally one of the greatest players of all time not top number just one of the greatest players of all time that we just sort of thought oh he's good isn't he do you know what i mean and like didn't it's that lack of and it comes back to that sort of lack of understanding about football about sport that that 16 17 team as much as we go on about it that sort of circumstance gets presented to you as a football club once in a lifetime really the sort of the the level of quality we had across the board but also topped up with literally one of the greatest players on the face of the planet and you didn't capitalize at that point because again you sort of thought I don't even do you know what you know the things people say jam tomorrow i don't even think they think about that i think they just think great the sponsor the sponsorship deals are flying in now it's great we're going to build the stadium we've got the nfl on the blower we might have a franchise we might have an nfl franchise one day here you know all this type of stuff that it's just it's not it's not serious it's not it's not football and i'm sorry i know people don't like me doing this and i do it probably every fucking podcast now because that's where we're at but I think one of the main things we hate about them down the road is that they take football seriously they always have done Tom Tom Foyne said to me if we beat them 4-1 twice in a season there would be there would be alarm bells sounding off all over there their backroom staff every how has this happened there'd be a full inquiry into it here oh well oh, they're good, aren't they?
28:03Jack:You know, that's what it feels like here, you know? And I think retrospectively, people are sort of digging out Coity a bit because, you know, he said the whole, they're nervous, maybe he could have toned it down a little bit in retrospect, but I'm not really buying into the whole. At least he's trying to GS up. Exactly, exactly.
28:20Lara:At least that's the, you know, that's one thing I don't, I don't like when people come for poor Coity because I feel like, you know, well, you know, there is one thing, you know, you're employed by the club. So you're going to have some sort of restrictions so you better get you know what at least he is you can't say Paul Coyt is not proper Spurs at least he tries he's there he tries to he's the one of the he's probably one of the true Spurs bits actually left in that club one of the biggest mistakes they ever did for him they tried to get rid of him and then that didn't work did it and they had to bring him back but I just think yeah but again like you say it's kind of like sets you up for sets you up to kind of be laughed at doesn't it but at this point it's like yeah you've got to do something to get the crowd up and I think I do think at the weekend when the crowd was was brilliant all things told the third goal killed it but I also think like and I'm that's another thing I'm so done with hearing the fans getting blamed for any of this I'm like no no you can get in the bin with that it's the fans fault absolutely not i mean yeah we were behind the team for the that was the loudest i've heard it in ages i thought that was that was a good north london derby atmosphere on saturday probably until that third goal went in but again you can only expect so much from this fan base like we have been like drug through the mud over the past few years and for the prices that we're paying i know we're not you know i'm trying to think of somebody who's gone down loads i'm because I only think of Luton and I don't use Luton because I love them.
29:53Lara:But we're not Luton Town who drops two leagues in two seasons or whatever. But Luton fans are not paying 1 ,400 quid for their season ticket like I am.
30:03Jack:Are you going to renew?
Read the full transcript
30:08Lara:Yeah, I mean, I will because I don't want to lose it. And that's the worst thing because I know I'm paying into the thing that I'm moaning about. And I'm one of the most local about saying oh you've got to protest about it and all of that but you know at the end of the day that's my club and if I leave if I give that ticket up you know I had to wait years on a waiting list for that to get that ticket and actually the only reason that I used to get to go in the first place I used to share my dad's season ticket um and the only reason we had that ticket is because we bought it when we were shit that's how you get a season all the people who sort of will then come like let me go is it possible to get a season ticket well that's how you get one you buy one when you crap we bought ours in 2001 i think we bought ours if you're worried about uh queues
30:56Jack:or i don't think there's going to be one anymore so you know you might be able to hold fire when
30:59Lara:they're in your but it is interesting i mean i will wait until the last day which i have done for the last i will always leave it to the last day i think i'll probably have to well because
31:08Jack:the thing it seems to be is that you know given that they've gone early with the season ticket announcement i think that's an indication they're not dropping the price even if we go down right
31:18Lara:right they won't i think i said it on here before they never they wouldn't they wouldn't and i genuinely i've as i think i'm literally repeating myself in a previous podcast i would not have even been surprised if they put it up and had some justification around it saying oh well we've got to have more games now because more games in the championship or you know yeah this is what this is
31:38Jack:what adam said on echo of glory he he was saying that the way it would be spun is the prices won't get cut but they will say you get more games in the championship and maybe they'll chuck in cup games again maybe they'll chuck in league cup games or give you a couple of fa cup game maybe
31:54Lara:so we can get to get to watch us get knocked out in the first round of both yeah because we won't be prioritizing the cups we will be prioritizing the league won't we
32:06Jack:i don't think that's going to be easy either you know there's a lot absolutely i know we've got loads of money and stuff I mean I mean what we will have to do in my opinion if we do I to be honest I don't really want to manifest too much of this I don't really want to talk about this until we absolutely have to but if we are in the championship obviously there'll be a big clear out there'll be a lot of big players going and what we will probably have to get is we'll probably have to and it will be harder for certain elements of the fan base to do this but we'll probably have to hold our noses and sign some horrible cloggers we'll probably have to sign some of those ugly horrible players that we thought were beneath us but you are gonna have to fight in the championship it's it's not an easy league it's not an easy league at all and we'll be probably be playing
32:56Lara:in a half full stadium every week so the atmosphere will be a bit
33:02Lara:and yeah we're not set up for this we're really not like if you're gonna operate
33:08Jack:we're set up to be playing champions league football you better make sure you don't go down because you are not you can't deal with this so i'm just i'm shocked that they've allowed us two
33:20Lara:seasons in a row to allow allowed us to get this you know dangerously close and they thought all the art they thought the answer was thomas frank did you uh did you ever used to watch
33:29Jack:game of thrones back in the day when it was yes loved it i think watch it loads of times Do you know exactly what we are? We would be an exiled Jaime Lannister thinking that all your heirs and graces of being some sort of prince with your artistic sword fighting and everything would serve you well. When what would happen down there is you get your hand chopped off by some horror that doesn't care who you are, you know? Exactly. That's what it would be.
33:57Lara:Yeah, I feel like we are dangerously close to getting our hand chopped off right now. that's exactly that's a really good analogy i like that we don't we don't shag our own sister though that's no i just want to put that you draw the line there yeah it's not not palatable that
34:12Jack:bit is it you know no um i mean i i mean our transfer policy probably could be the equivalent of that i guess but you know still let's let's not explore that one too much no it's not so much a question so it's thursday it's i've asked for questions and sort of talking points from from listeners um Stavkoi is not so much a question but it's a good point he raises and it's it's very much on topic says the only reason we didn't sign Adam Ola-Lukman is because he's 28 this this is common under our pathetic ownership rather than improve as tenfold they would rather have a player like Tell sitting on the bench it's utter negligence yet again from the board for a player who is now flying high at Atletico Madrid.
34:58Yep.
34:58Lara:Standard. How many of those have we got over the years? Millions of them.
35:02Jack:Absolutely millions. Absolutely loads. Just loads. Loads and loads of them.
35:08Lara:And saying that, even then, I'm going to big up Matisse Tell. I'll be honest, I was one of the ones at the end of last season going, why have we signed him? But when he's played this season, he's like one of our best players. And then we just stick him on the bench. so it's like somehow he's turned out to be all right I mean the benchmark is not high at the moment let's be fair but give him his juice he's one of the only ones that looks like he actually cares he tries sometimes looks like you know he's going to make stuff happen he's actually scored some really good goals oh no we'll just leave him on the bench yeah don't know what that's all about it's like we are just literally determined to shoot ourselves in the feet but you know you're got on with that the number of players we've missed out on over quibbling over you know nonsense only to watch them go and be amazing elsewhere and obviously the one we end up with normally is it's the bruno fernandez gidson fernandez scenario isn't it i mean who we've also
36:10Jack:had uh let's not forget um charlantino you know that we've we lose luca modric that we've quibbled over for an entire summer we didn't pay his the transfer his wages that he wanted you know it always says i mean hazard hazard i feel like you know we were a bit unlucky with weren't we because chelsea champions league all that but i know what you mean it's still did that to ourselves
36:40Lara:though also
36:44Jack:it's a good one from Jack Pitbrook actually you might have heard of him he so he says who is the worst former Spurs player that you would take back in the team now so I'm guessing I'm guessing his point is what has the level dropped to that a player that you previously thought of as being terrible you would actually welcome into the starting 11 now um there's been quite a lot of other people have sort of dived in on this you know a lot of people saying like oliver skip or this or that but again i think that's i think that's even harsh on skip you know i yeah skip skip walks into this team is what i'm saying right now i'm sort of thinking where where does the bar where does the bar stop i mean one one point i did raise it people are sort of i'm not chucking him into worst conversations if you like worst player conversations but I think about somebody like Nasser Chadli, who was always an okay player for us.
37:44Jack:I think we'll be one of the best players in this team right now. Be scoring a lot of goals, I reckon, at least anyway.
37:52Lara:Eric Lamella, I was like, what would I do for a Lamella right now to just go in?
37:59Jack:It's been lots of shouts for Lamella.
38:03Lara:I don't like him being included in worse though, because I always loved Derek Lamella. I don't know. I think if I had to pick someone really like, someone like Carl Norton, who I always like, he was one of just my trigger people in terms of who he's in. It's like, Carl Norton, at least he's an actual right back. That's, I suppose that's where, where I am right now. Take Norton back because I haven't got any other right backs, have we?
38:32Jack:I shout for Hossam Ghali, who I think he was, he was a decent player though I always thought he just threw the shirt on the floor didn't he I feel like
38:42Lara:he might not handle the current situation all that well though yeah he might not quite be built for that he might be a bit more on the Romero kind of angry tweets after the game type
38:55Jack:Razziak's another one that's been raised as well so that's an interesting one
39:00Lara:did he ever score for us he must have done like
39:04Jack:did he I recall maybe one goal yeah
39:09Lara:I feel like he maybe got a couple or something but Soldado
39:14Jack:no zero goals for Tottenham
39:16Lara:oh and yeah no why would you want him back for then he was horrific
39:22Jack:wasn't he
39:23Lara:yeah oh
39:24Jack:that was bad yeah that was a really bad one yeah but I mean it's like we sort of look at that with like bad times we're like we're probably better than we are now
39:33Lara:yeah probably
39:34Jack:you know what about Vincent Janssen Vincent Janssen would you give him no I wouldn't I wouldn't give him a go over Moani or Solanke so I mean somebody here said Adebayo Adebayo was quality you know for a while only when he had a point
39:51Lara:to prove though
39:52Jack:remember that game away at Stamford Bridge when he scored an absolute worldie but overall he had an absolutely incredible game that day as well I think we drew I want to say we drew at Stamford Bridge and that was either was that late Sherwood or was it early Potch I can't remember but I do remember it had to buy your screamer anyway at a at Stanford Bridge Hoy B is a big one for me that was always like you say about Norton Hoy B was such a triggering player for me but he walks into this team like yeah that's that's terrifying that's it's terrifying when you consider Hoy B was one of the players that I would always go on about as being like one of those poor buys we've made down the years and then we're even replacing
40:37Lara:hoibier poorly it's oh it's it's again hard it's the whole strategy is atrocious bar just gets
40:44Jack:lower and lower and lower doesn't it yeah um okay so here's here's a here's a good one um and i think this is this is relevant even though i resent it entirely sspw man about town says at wallaceesquire says um do you think that with 99 of spurs podcasts currently having negative content at the moment adds to the malaise that we find ourselves in um he says come on new podcasters turn our frowns upside down i mean you know aren't we sort of just fans at the end of day sharing our annoyance at spurs being bad do you know i mean i think it's like it's like
41:25Lara:communal therapy podcasts really like I think if I'm I don't know it might just be the way my brain works but when I am feeling like about Tottenham I kind of want to listen to somebody else moaning about it like when it's good I want to go on the podcast and listen to them talking about bloody brilliant we are but there's I don't know I feel like I'm not one for toxic positivity which is a really wanky term but like I just think there's you reach a point don't you where it's like what I've said before where's where's the positive where's the positive I do think people were being before the Arsenal game I do think actually most of the pods I listen to I think there was an element there where people were trying to go look you know what can we do and to that to that point at the moment what can we do but get behind the team you know when we're at the games we need to be behind the team like at this point the only thing that matters is survival you know there is a whole summer to go great guns at the board and my god they deserve it and they should get it regardless of which way it goes um in the stadium sure but i don't really i don't really i'm not i don't know i'm not really sure that listening to a podcast where people are moaning is going to, or, you know, people being positive on a podcast is necessarily going to change the atmosphere.
42:51Lara:And I think the atmosphere in the stadium is probably what matters more. When you want your spring break to feel like, and your kid's pool day to feel like, and your hotel bed to feel like, ooh, and room service to feel like, because at Hilton, hospitality feels like,
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43:51Jack:It's a Season 2 playoff race with TGL. Presented by SoFi. Sunday at 9 p.m. Eastern. Jupiter Lynx versus Boston Common Golf. Monday at 7 p.m. Eastern. Los Angeles Golf Club versus New York Golf Club. Tuesday at 9 p.m. Eastern. The Bay Golf Club versus Jupiter Lynx. Keep up. It's golf. Watch on ESPN, ESPN2, and the ESPN app. um daniel shack says do we need more former players dash legends to call out the current players for their lack of minerals at the moment they seem to have no embarrassment at their pathetic inability to win games of football tudor has no leverage as they all know he's gone in a couple of months i mean i do know what he's saying but also i just feel like this group of players aren't going to respond to anybody saying anything.
44:39Jack:And, you know, I do sort of, I don't really want to go down this road too much at the moment because we need them. But I do echo the sentiment that many people share that I find this to be one of the most unlikable groups of Tottenham players. No, it is the most unlikable group of Tottenham players I've ever encountered. And they won in Bilbao, you know, and it's mad. but I've got zero affection for the majority of them, which is, you know, maybe that's a feeling that's shared by them. I would wager that it is by the amount of times they're coming and starting on fans and stuff like that.
45:17Lara:Yeah, there is something, that's the bit I don't like, is the bit where they seem to be coming for the fans. That's the bit that bothers me. There's a bit of me that don't, in some ways, doesn't. i'll try word this right because it's not about you know at the end of the day they are professional people and they're being paid a lot of money and but they are also a lot of them very young blokes who went out and actually delivered something incredible in bilbao all things considered and then basically spent the next few months listening to their new manager talk that down in the media say that didn't really count we're not really a champions league club are we we didn't really qualify um so no thomas we did qualify because winning that trophy qualifies you for the champions league so let's just put that one straight um i'll remember this team finished 17th last season you know we've half done it to ourselves so i think he's you know for that team they were probably they were probably were excited to go on and see you know what can we do now and then in comes you know Thomas Frank with you know hello let's just let's let's be pragmatic about this you know got to compete on four fronts by competing on no fronts um yeah I don't know I just think I can I can sort of see how this has happened and it's not nice to sit and watch it and I do think sometimes you know you sit and think stop being dickheads but at the same time i sort of there's a bit of me that that understands how they how this has happened and again it's failure in the board they still have to take responsibility themselves at the end of day we will take responsibility for our own actions and i think there could be a bit more within that squad but we've lost who are our you know talisman you know son's gone who are our long-standing you know romero obviously probably is the longest standing now but he's a bit of a maverick um not necessarily he's he's not necessarily the one that's going to kind of put them all together yeah I don't know this um it's I don't know I feel like that they probably are lacking a bit of a it's not a father figure where there's those mentors are those sort of people who can kind of come and you know the Roy Keane's I suppose you back in the day would go up to the change and go look this is Tottenham Hotspur you know you're not doing that we've got a you know who who are our who are our champions in there so I suppose coming back to his point well the person but I don't feel like doing it publicly helps I do I do think that I would like to see more of our ex-players calling out the board publicly maybe we do need a bit of the ex-players in there to go and have a word about I think it has to I think that would have to be done behind the scenes I don't I don't think I necessarily agree with doing that in public I just don't think they
48:14Jack:care that's the problem no just and you know like the stuff with the fans i think so much of that has been emboldened by angie postacoglu by thomas frank more so um by the media the media constantly and they're still and i you know i know you sat here on a podcast saying the media do this the media do that if people want to pin you as some wobble-headed like weirdo but you know even even to this day like you who is it what one of them a neville or a carrigan or something made some point about like spurs fans entitlement you think what's what's the entitlement you know what's the entitlement i don't get it but you want your team to do well like it's not it's not entitlement mate it's you know it's just and i just think this stuff you know the players i think gone are the days that the players are switched off to this stuff the players are chronically online as well they all know everything that's being said they know the narratives they know the memes they know all of it um they will know that people they all go to the darts they know people are singing top them get bad everywhere they go all the time you know yeah and they just i think they're so i think a lot of them are narcissistic i think a lot i think i think mickey van der ven's a massive narcissist i think he's a i think he's a good player i think he's a great athlete but But I think the level he thinks he's at, to think he's like way above Tottenham in the way that, you know, I feel like he demonstrates quite a bit in his attitude and in his actions.
49:46Jack:Is, again, I find it a bit lame. I don't really want to just chuck, you know, he's a young bloke. He's annoyed that the team aren't doing well. And I know there's a lot going on about that Tudor video, but I don't think that's conclusive. you know the one of him apparently ignoring Tudor because somebody was saying the other day actually you know he's shouting at one of the others he's shouting at um Draga's sin or something
50:10Lara:you know who knows it's an agenda now isn't it's a narrative point of course jump on that look for what they can I think it just comes back to the culture at the club is rotten yeah it is you know you can point out individuals you know there's not an individual player it's you know a bad culture creates, it will create that toxicity within a team. It just will. And the closest I can think of to it is this feels very much like the sort of end of Sherwood era. You know, like there was that Liverpool game where you got spanked and you got Jan Vertonghen in the tunnel looking like he'd rather be anywhere else.
50:46Lara:And then Pochettino came in and then look at Jan Vertonghen after that. So I think that's the only thing I would say when like, it might just be because fandom ever reminds me so much of Vertonghen. But whenever I look at that, I sort of think, there is that bit where I go, well, I remember how pissed off I was with Vertonghen at that time. And I was like, the same way you all talk about Van der Ven, that's how I felt about Vertonghen then. And then that completely turned around with, you know.
51:10Jack:He's one of our most legendary players, isn't he now?
51:13Lara:Exactly. Of the Morton here anyway. Yeah. And I just, I think there probably are a few bad apples and there's probably a few dickheads. Like, it's just that thing, there's probably dickheads in every Premier League team. But I think it comes back to me, everything comes back to the culture at that club the whole thing is wrong and you're you know you're relying on luck then to get somebody who's in there you know I think Son probably has been a massive loss he probably has in that sense he probably was you know he's one of the ones that could bring people to get very good with people as well clearly they all loved him they all had respect for him he's gone who's that person now in the dressing room other than like Romero who just like say he's a bit of a he's a bit of a rebel isn't he so um he's not really going to be that guy
52:03Jack:fred gruff asks are kane and son simultaneously the best and worst thing to happen to us in the last 10 years they gave us so many memorable moments but also papered over a heck of a lot of cracks giving the board every excuse not to invest we now miss their get out of jail free cards fred i think you've answered your own question there mate like i'm not i'm not going to blame kane and son for being came and for being kane and son i'm going to blame the board
52:31Lara:for papering over those cracks of those two is the correct answer yeah they are one of the best
52:38Jack:things that have ever happened to this club you know 100 100 any other big club would have you know they've capitalized on that um callum so at bc the grand slam says how would you improve engagement with fan protests what would be the most impactful or should we just simply focus on improving atmosphere inside the stadium um look i mean if we if we go down i think that's gonna be and you know we're talking like if we go down and langer van kateshen heads don't roll i think protests will be will be enormous and i would imagine they will very organically grow i think as is always said and i think change for tottenham are doing a lot of work with this now is i think people need to feel like there's an actual solution at the end of it yeah it's all well and good to say let's go and protest we don't like daniel levy we don't like enick but what's the what's the alternative what's the goal what's your manifesto if you like as a as a protest group um i think change for tottenham do work very hard on that and have outlined a lot of that so emphasis on that rallying people together and i just think people organically need to get behind
53:55Lara:this stuff ultimately don't they they do yeah i think it there is just a bit of a thing in our you know our fan base isn't it some people are more likely to get involved with that i think
54:07Jack:i think it's british culture i don't think we really protest and especially like southern i
54:12Lara:think there is i do think there's a north south divide there i think that you know clubs up north are more likely to get involved with something and we're also the fact that we're a club in london there's so many clubs in london and a lot of our fans are from all over whereas you've got you know look at certain other clubs most of the fan base is a bit more local it's more of a community thing and is so you know it's easier to get those people out like you know versus just you know somebody who's come over for a day for their one Spurs game they get to go to a season and doesn't want to kind of go to the protest or whatever but I think like you say it will happen it will happen or if things get bad enough you're talking about me there Lara like yeah coming over for my one my one game of the season yeah I think you're uh I felt that that felt barbed no that sounds really diggy doesn't it that's not how I meant it's just the fact we have a lot of fans who come from all over and that if you know if you support a team that's further away you can't go to every game can you I mean I've got a season to go I don't want to go to every game I've missed quite a few this season because I just can't quite deal with it so I'm certainly not someone who can be sitting poking a finger at people
55:19Jack:for not coming they're definitely not getting picked up on the exchange either are they so
55:23Lara:absolutely not no no no
55:29Jack:just it's quite a lot of questions like this is this is good and I don't want to you know I know we don't have all day Adam Michi Flicks and Tricks says has our horrific injury crisis affected the psyche of the players to the extent that a World Cup in the summer and having seen long term injuries sustained by teammates meaning that they're subconsciously holding themselves back in games that's not that's not a bad point that's quite an interesting point yeah might be I think
55:59Lara:the injury thing what is that like I'm starting to like gets to the point where i'm you know getting well that pitch dipping into conspiracy theories about the pitch and stuff well maybe there's something in i don't know what is it though like i mean
56:14Jack:i think there is something in it because i'm pretty sure right you know when i get all the red strings lined up properly i'm pretty sure i've seen somebody say that a similar thing happened in the nfl or something there was some i don't know there was something there and also there's been a big ding-dong at the Bernabeu with their groundsman of 20 plus years who walked out because he was saying that that type of pitch or whatever is no good. And that's not a very convincing argument, is it? I heard this thing and I heard that vague thing. I don't know.
56:48Lara:Where's most of our injuries happen? Someone out there who's good with stats, we'll just ask TragGPT, of most of our injuries when they've happened in games, if they happened at home or away, don't know, I don't know the answer to that. answers on postcard there's that one might say though there's that accumulative fatigue isn't there playing on our maybe maybe training grab pitch i don't know i think that and just consistently not building a squad to compete on four fronts while simultaneously telling your manager you must compete on four fronts it's a bit like the football version of project zeus and peep showing it right let's uh let's let's end on this one because i think this is we need it
57:31Jack:um read at james read 28 says are there any crumbs of comfort anywhere um he does go on to say even if we do somehow survive it feels like we'll rearrange the deck chairs on the titanic over the summer only to be caught in another relegation fight um next season failure breeds failure cheery sold aren't I are there any crumbs of comfort anywhere
58:01Lara:Thomas Frank's gone yeah yeah
58:05Jack:I suppose
58:07Lara:there's the the rumoured kits for next
58:09Jack:year look quite oh I haven't seen those they look alright
58:13Lara:might not have a sponsor on if it's right which would be even better for the maker yeah
58:19Jack:Yeah, Poch might be back. I mean, not everybody loves that, but I would second the majority of people quite happy about the idea of that. So, you know, that might be fun.
58:32Lara:Hmm. Yeah, it is slim pickings, isn't it?
58:37Jack:Arsenal might fuck up.
58:39Lara:I mean, yeah, come on. Unfortunately, that's the...
58:43Jack:Do you know what? The worse our situation gets, though, the less I find myself thinking about them or even caring about it so there's one positive the thing for me is like even if they do win a double or this or I mean Champions League I would hate seeing them win I'm not gonna lie but even if they did win the double like won the FA Cup and they won the you know the league or they won the league cup or something there'd be that bit of me they'd be like if we stay up I don't care I let them have their day in the sun let them sing their Tottenham songs and all that as long as we stay up that's that's what I care about right now
59:19Lara:you know I've been there before that's why I grew up watching those exactly bastards win everything so just gonna get back into back into my safe place in my brain like I tried to find on Saturday how did that work out for you didn't work very well at one point I actually did try and put like my fingers in my ears to block them out and weirdly it made it easier to hear them I was like that doesn't work so don't do that i was just like i didn't really sat in my seat thinking how do people do that thing where apparently you can just like dissociate from where you are because that's that's where i was on saturday after that third goal went in and it was just yeah yeah i took that back in a negative didn't i yeah i was gonna say we were supposed to be bringing this back we're supposed to finish on a positive yeah but it's not happening is it it's not happening so you know still in the champions league we're fourth in the champions league there
1:00:16Jack:you go there's one we've got to get out of the champions league um that's one for another day yeah thank you very much um where can people follow you uh on twitter which i still won't
1:00:30Lara:call it because that is my ongoing kind of gammon thing it will always be twitter to me uh lazarini seven if you can work out how to spell it
1:00:41Jack:it's it it i know it's been a again another a doom saying one but i have enjoyed it so thanks
1:00:48Lara:for coming on thank you no it's been a bit like so a bit like therapy at the moment so let's see uh let's see what happens at our next appointment is it full and sunday
1:01:10Thank you.
From the publisher
Jack welcomes Lara back to the show to try and make sense of the seemingly hopeless situation at Tottenham right now. We ask the big questions: what exactly is going wrong, who is ultimately to blame for this mess, and where on earth do the club go from here?
Lara also tackles a selection of listener questions, diving into some fascinating debates. We discuss which of the 'best worst' players of yesteryear you would happily take back in the current side, and explore the paradox of whether Harry Kane and Son Heung-min are simultaneously the best and worst things to happen to the club in the last 10 years.
The conversation then shifts to the media landscape, asking if Spurs podcasters and creators need to be less negative to help lift the club out of its current strife. Finally, we look at actionable steps and discuss how fans can get better organised to effectively protest the current state of affairs at the club.
Theme is Ghost Cat by Gillen
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