Won't Somebody Think Of The Pigeons? (Q&A)

26:01And it's a huge ask for someone like Mattis Tell to come in in his first full season and replicate those kind of numbers. I think the only thing about it for me would be, in a good way, would be that if Mikey Moore is the player that we all think that he could be, then maybe this is the step to doing it because maybe him and Tell on the left, if it leads to getting more Mikey Moore minutes, maybe that's a way that we actually develop one of the best young players in Europe a bit more and a bit better and a bit more meaningful than what he was sort of stuck out on the right wing a bit last season and didn't really work very well.

26:33I think he's a left winger, hopefully. We might see it. But I think it would be a huge gamble not to replace Son with a... You know if we went and got someone like Liao from AC Milan or someone like that? Yeah. And I think if we do sell Son, because he's such an incredible output machine and he is genuinely one of the best left wing the Supremia League has ever seen, I would hope to bring in someone of quality to replace him, to be honest.

26:56Jack:I mean, I saw us sort of linked with Rodrigo yesterday. That's just surely laughable, isn't it? That's not a realistic thing, is it, for Tottenham? No, it isn't. But that's the sort of level of, if we did sell-sell, and that's the kind of level of player that I would hope that we would bring in. Not necessarily, you know, Rodrigo or no one else, but just like, I would just love to make a really wow signing if we sold Son because he's the fate of our club. If you're going to replace the... And I just think if you look at our players that we do have, Kudus, Solanke, Kudusevski, Tel, these are the players that are going to be our front line.

27:33How many of those players are going to get 25 goals a season? None of those really are known for being prolific. So I think we'd have to have someone quite prolific to be able to get away with replacing someone like Son.

27:44Jack:um we've been just before we started recording um it seems like the palina um rumors news whatever you want to call it it's starting to heat up it looks like it's becoming tangible it it has the feel of one of those things that's going to happen um i've seen a mixed response about about this one what do you think about it um he's something that i wanted to sign when he was at fulham for sure i I think he's one of the best ball winners in Europe, definitely. And I do think we kind of, a lot of us, we lack that kind of profile a little bit. Again, what I normally do on Twitter is I follow guys that are much more intelligent than me, and I steal their opinions as my own.

28:28So I've seen quite a few people saying that he's not like, his passing isn't good enough for us for what we want. So I'd be a bit concerned about that. But I'm broadly in line with the signing, because one is experience, Premier League experience. you know it's not signing a youngster that's going to take a few years to bed in it's actually signing someone that can come in and make a difference now playing in the premier league he's played for Bayern Munich I know he didn't have particularly success there and I do kind of feel sometimes we really miss like an out and out six we haven't had one for ages like someone who's just going to go and make loads of tackles and interceptions I don't think any of our players that we've got there are particularly good at that so we broadly in line agree with it this is a big part of me that kind of wishes that we just sort of really break the bank and go for Adam Morton or Belieber from Bryan, but I'd be happy if this is a signing to be like, okay, let's sign Pelina this summer and then next summer, let's go and get someone like Adam Warton who's going to be our, who's going to play there for the next 10 years or so.

29:20Jack:Yeah, who's going to be future captain, you know, probably going to be England captain one day as well. Like it's, yeah, I mean, I'm not, I'm not, again, I'm not calling anyone out or anything like this, but because a lot of people have made this point, but one of the most sort of prominent ones I've seen was Nathan, Nathan O 'Clark, who was essentially saying that, you know, He sort of felt like the move didn't really make much sense, that we already have quite a few ball winners in the team. And I just, in an eye test way, I would say I don't know if I fully agreed with his take on that because I think we've often lacked real bite and real kind of a dynamic, let's say a dynamic ball winner.

30:03Jack:I think Basuma, I love him and I talk about him on here a lot. But I think he's inconsistent and I personally wouldn't call him a sort of an out-and-out ball winner. Ben Tanker, I think, can do a job doing that. But do I think he's most comfortable doing that? Do I think he's actually that dynamic anymore since he's, you know, unsurprisingly, since he's had two ACL injuries? And I do kind of feel like having that. I know, look, like you say, in the dream scenario, we get a technical number six. We get our own version of Rodri who can do the lot right. But Belieber, Wharton, their two players are£100 million.

30:47Jack:Plus, I'm sure there are other players, like again, Nathan, everyone knows who Nathan is. He's got a list of players that would apparently work for Spurs, which I'm sure his judgment on them is sound. But if we have an option here to sign somebody like Polinia that can be that dynamic, aggressive ball winner, which I honestly do think we have lacked for a long time at Spurs. I mean, I recall that, remember like at least for like the season and a half before he had like personal issues and stuff, when we dropped Wilson Palacios into the team, like the lift it suddenly gave everyone when we were like, oh wow, we've got like this midfield general now and suddenly we can play.

31:27Jack:See also Sandro. Yeah, I was just about to say that as well, yeah. And I think since those two, we haven't really had that kind of profile, have we really? No. Scott Parker as well was really good at that. And does that then, you know, when you've got somebody doing that, does that then allow like a Ben Tanker who isn't quite, you know, physically isn't what he once was, but is still a player that can float into dangerous positions, can read the game pretty well, can knock the ball about pretty nicely. Is a technically sound footballer. Does that give him a bit more freedom to operate in that way?

32:04Jack:Does it allow somebody like Lucas Bergvold, who did a great job as a kind of almost like makeshift ball winner at times last season? I think he's quite an aggressive player. I think it probably comes quite naturally to him. But still, does that allow him to be more of a, say, like a classic number eight in some ways, getting forwards a bit more, concentrate a bit more on the technical aspects of his game as opposed to being like a yellow card magnet as he is? I don't know. I'm not saying that the arguments against signing Polinia are all incorrect or anything like that. I'm just simply saying that I don't see it as like as egregious a kind of error in judgment as I think perhaps it's being made out at times.

32:50Jack:I can see some merit to it. and I also just think just on a really kind of like again on a more basic level we just lack experienced players in our team and we have done for quite some time and I don't mind having a player who's a bit older who can kind of guide these younger lads a bit that they can kind of learn from in some ways I guess and ultimately by the looks of it It's only going to be alone at first. So we can kind of play it by ear on it, can't we? Yeah, and I think as Spurs fans as well, we're sort of viewing it through the lens of how we want our midfielders to play when they've got the ball.

33:36Obviously, one of the things I know that the really good Nathan and others, people like Lily White Lab, are talking about progressive passes and things like that, which Pellinier isn't really. I think so many times last season we were so open, that maybe we just need someone who can actually sit in front of a defence and make us a bit more steady at the back badly because we were so easy to cut through last season. Having Paulinho there in front of the defence would just make it much better as well. So I think sometimes maybe we do need to look at the defensive side of it a bit more as well and I think that would be really important.

34:06But I do really like the way we've could have Morgan Gibbs-White and we could do an entire podcast on that story at the moment. And Paulinho, they seem to be targeting Premier League ready players already and players that can just come in and start straight away because, you know, I think that's been a frustration with our transfer policy over the last few years, particularly last summer, when we signed Solanke and, like, a few teenagers, that I just want players that can come in, like, tomorrow and be ready to play in the Premier League.

34:33Jack:Well, let's... We'll go because we've got a lot of questions. And this is, like, a relevant point to start asking some of these ones. We've had Luke at Luke underscore WM on Twitter or X ask who signs first? Damiao, Matinho or Morgan Gibbs-White? I mean, it's feeling that way, isn't it, with Morgan Gibbs-White, that it's becoming one of those protracted transfers. What's your gut feel on it, Bill? Do you think it's still going to happen or do you think it's done? My gut feeling has probably changed in the last two days or so. First of all, I've completely lost interest in it now. I'm just so boring now, isn't it, to even think about it, which is a shame because it was such an exciting signing.

35:16I'd have been absolutely buzzing to sign him. But now, I'm not, I don't know. Now that he's come out today that he's gone on the tour again, hasn't it, with Nottingham Forest. My gut is now turning to, I don't think it's going to happen. It's just, how do you even resolve this at this point? Because apparently they're not even, they literally have turned their phones off to even talk to us. I think you've got two incredibly stubborn chairmen going at each other. And I do think Daniel Levy is, I don't blame Daniel Levy for this transfer in particular. There's plenty of other things to blame him for.

35:46but I don't think he takes any blame for this. I think Maranac is just a massive, massive dickhead, to be honest, and I think he's acted that way like a petulant child. I don't know. I'm not particularly hopeful at the moment that it's going to happen just because I don't really see how it resolves. I think it's crazy that it's got to this point. I think it's crazy that the Premier League haven't stepped in and been like, what are you doing, Nottingham Forest? You can't just negate a release clause like that. But because no one seems to be taking it seriously or stepping in, and I don't think Gibbs White is going to kick up a fuss because he's like their captain and a pretty stand-up guy.

36:21I don't know. I'm feeling pretty low on it at the moment. What about you?

36:25Jack:Pretty much the same as you, mate. I suddenly, I don't know, it feels like it's turned again a bit of a corner. I think it was V from the Lane were essentially saying, because Danny Kelly was raising the point that, well, Forrest have threatened legal action and that hasn't happened. And so I think it was all kind of bluster. And I think it was Jack Pitbrook that was saying, yeah, but it might also be that Spurs just don't want it to go to that place, that even if they feel like they are in the right, football clubs just hate being in court. They hate anything being actually legally challenged.

37:06Jack:And when they start threatening one another in this way, it tends to make things kind of go away and disappear a bit I mean the thing that particularly rattled me about this with Maranakis and I appreciate if you were not a Spurs fan it's probably quite hilarious objectively but the thing that rattled me about it was um I can't remember which journal it was that was saying it but apparently the thing that has particularly annoyed Maranakis about this is that apparently this release clause was like under the proviso that Morgan Gibbs is 60 million if Morgan Gibbs White gets an offer from a bigger club and the reason why he's so annoyed is because he doesn't see Tottenham as a bigger club than Forest and I was just kind of like I mean that is that is disingenuous and yes I am rattled by that because you know yeah great you won some stuff in the 70s but you've literally been a tin pot side now for decades like awful and not tim pot in the way that people like to say spurs are like actually tim pot you've you've done nothing with that you would you would literally just brian clough merchants that's it and i think nothing before that and nothing since so just disappear again and i think that's our like our unique place in the and i use the term in inverted commas big six cartel which is that's a ridiculous phrase in the first place but our unique place in the big six is that because we're like the lowest rung on it we seem to be like the club that is like targeted the most you know i mean like we we don't really get any benefits of being a big six club and we get all of the hate for it as well so it's really annoying place to be in like the food chain because like for example clubs like arsenal um clubs like astonville and newcastle forest hate us because we're in the big six without being as successful as the other big six clubs you know historically um so it's we're like we're probably the literally the of the of the so-called big six we're the only club that could apply to right like if any of the other five clubs had gone in for this release cause it would have been done by now it's just a really annoying place that we find at us in the football food chamber like the lowest rung of the top rung that makes sense yeah exactly and yeah i i've started to kind of and look i was i was buzzing about it i was and i'm not going to pretend otherwise absolutely that afternoon when i suddenly heard we were going to get Morgan Gibbs White I was like oh my god I've wanted this guy since he was like I think it'd be such a game changer for him I really do think it would have been a game changer in signing I agree mate I I really agree and I know where does he play where do we fit him in but it's one of those players I'm like I don't really care about that I'm just happy about the fact we got somebody of that quality coming in but now like you say just in the pits of it heart of hearts I kind of just feel like it's going to be one of those it's going to fall by the wayside now which is which is disappointing um we had our last thing is wes johnson asked on instagram and i think this is relevant to this point he said do you want morgan gibbs white more now um just to piss off the forest fan base because i know i do they've become unbearable they have been quite weird with us haven't they they've been really really weird and again i think it's speaking to that thing i was saying but i don't know because everyone sort targets the big six clubs they seem to think that there's some conspiracy theory but we don't really get involved in any of that stuff anyway so i don't really know why we are a target of it but oh yeah i've got a i've got a huge i've just been bookmarking hundreds of tweets over the last week or so from forest fans i can't wait i can't wait i think they're absolutely unbearable to be honest and i think because they've had that they've got that champions league win from like the black and white era and um they kind of have these pretenses of being a club that actually matters when really they're less like relegation fodder really aren't they let's be honest they're bobbins yeah and i really hope they sort of regress to the mean next season go back into a relegation battle um and i actually i genuinely believe as well the way that he treated nuno last season was a disgrace after everything that nuno did you know he did an incredible job last season and to embarrass him on the pitch on the last day of the season like that was an absolute disgrace and I think this guy is out and out bullying that's all it was he's such an I'm saying and I know that there's this thing that they must be going through yeah when they must they put on a facade of being like oh everyone hates our chairman we love him because everyone hates him you know he always sticks up for us and he does it deep down they must know that he's a massive massive dickhead and they must be on some level embarrassed on the sort of shenanigans that he does and I know you can easily put a face on Twitter being like oh everyone hates our chairman it's brilliant love how he rattles everyone everyone gets rattled by Maranakis but you must know on a human level that he's just a massive wanker um and there's no way that they can actually support this guy in like a meaningful way it's more just like pretending to enjoy being rattled everyone else being rattled by him but the reason why everyone's rattled with him because he's an absolute wanker well he is and he's just and well you know we don't need to go into this too much but it's not just in a footballing sense he's a thoroughly unpleasant individual by all accounts so yeah i'm i'm just i'm not having it but yeah definitely an answer to the question i would love i would love i can't if it does happen i can't wait to see to go back to all the forest fans i've just been unbearable i'm just it's another weird club that we seem to now have a rival with and as if we don't have enough of those somebody tweeted it might have even been you mate actually um the other day they were saying like the week when Spurs sign Morgan Gibbs-White and Crystal Palace get back into the Europa League is going to be generational.

42:39Jack:Oh, man, yeah. See, that in itself is another ridiculous thing, isn't it? All the dodgy dealings that have happened there and the fact that they wrote a letter to the UEFA, it's just... Come on, it's so horrible. They're a horrible club. Yeah, a vile institution. And I always kind of had a bit of a sort of soft spot for them. Me too. Yeah. I remember when we played them in the Karnan Cup, when Ryan Mason scored. I thought their fans were unbelievable and they were all wearing green jumpers and stuff because it was like the Clough anniversary or something. I thought, oh, this is... I really sort of liked them back then.

43:11I thought that was a really cool away and I thought the atmosphere was amazing and stuff, brilliant fans. But yeah, this is just... That guy is just horrific.

43:20Jack:I mean, they've even been weird though. I don't know if you've seen it like since, you know, that kid who was clearly the front of his parents trying to get autographs to sell them online called Jed Spence and Doggy. But you know, since he refused to sign it, you've seen like all the Forest TikTokers and stuff are all going for Jed. Oh, see, look, glad we don't have him in our team. He's disgusting. He's a disgrace. Tottenham deserve him, all that type of stuff. And you're just like... Did you see the next day he came out and got a signing, but the signing is of one of those like generic football numbers that he's obviously going to put on a shirt and sell and it's a signed Jed Spence.

43:56It's so obviously transparent.

43:58Jack:Yeah, it's obvious. It's obvious. D on Twitter at DJP82THFC says, another slow window. I think our squad is mid-table at best. Your thoughts, chaps? Yeah, I mean, what do you make of our squad, Bill? Say we don't add anyone else to it at this point, or if we do like we did last year, we add an Odeber type signing, a 20-30 mil from Sunderland. Well, not Sunderland anymore, there. You get what I'm saying there. You get the point I'm making. Do you reckon we're actually in an alright place or do you worry about it? I think it's a balance between the two things. I think it's definitely a lot better than it looked last season in the league.

44:43I think probably you're looking at maybe around 9th upwards, between 9th and 6th. I think the big, big worry is all of our rivals are massively strengthening and we are nowhere we're near that level currently. Like Arsenal, Liverpool, Man City, Chelsea have had like generational windows, all of them. So I just think like we are, like Chelsea yesterday, just going out and signing Hato and Simmonds. I'm just off to the back of, you know, signing about five other players already. It's just like the level now is so high that unless... Have they actually got Simmonds? Is it done? I think it's close.

45:16Hato has done or whatever. Simmonds is close. And then, you know, Arsenal obviously got Gio Carreras. Liverpool have had probably one of the best transfer windows in the history of the sport. and then Mancini had a really good January didn't they and still going apparently and that's what we're and let's make no mistake about it Levy sacked Ange because he wanted to compete with those teams, he said he wants to compete on all fronts and win the league and the Champions League so I don't necessarily agree that he would say that when he came out of those quotes which now looking back I'm sure he's going to live to regret those quotes but not necessarily when he said those he wanted to mean that this season do that but it's just we're such a long way off that at the moment that I just think we need to go and spend at least a few three or three or four decent more players before anywhere near the level of of the top four I think we're probably about ninth upwards at the moment maybe if Frank coaches us really well we could get that to seventh but this is so so competitive now the Premier League is crazy like even Sunderland are going out and spending hundreds of millions on like really highly regarded players just like I don't know I just feel like you can you can easily slip behind as as last season showed, if you don't get it right, then relegation is actually a real threat that could happen to any Premier League team.

46:28Jack:I do think we have, what I will say is I do think we've got a lot of really talented, exciting players. I am excited to see perform under Thomas Frank. You're going to be asking a lot of Frank, aren't you? It's going to have to be a Pochettino-style uptick. I don't want this to be perceived as being negative, but I just think, as you say quite correctly, the strength of the Premier League is as it is now. It's ridiculous that as much as I think we have a very talented squad, I think there's still not tons of experience there. And I think it's probably, it's a squad capable of breaking into the top eight.

47:08Jack:Let me put it that way. Like I say, don't take that as me being negative and saying, oh, this uses, I am looking forward to the season. I'm really looking forward to seeing, like Vuscovic looks generational. I know we're having a bit of a joke about it, but on a real level, like, you know, he won't mind me saying, like, Hainsey has said, the buzz around the club is, this kid is special. Like, he's unbelievable. You know, you even look at somebody, I think it was you actually, Bill, that said the other day, like, wow, Danso is actually, I forgot how good he is. Danso is a really good signing especially if we're playing that back three next year which we don't know but if he is you would expect him to get a hell of a lot of time and him playing alongside Romero fingers crossed and Van der Ven is really exciting Adoghi Spence, Porro you know really exciting good players obviously we know Greg Bergvall already and our attack is exciting it's promising we've got a lot of really good players there kudos looks amazing so I think there's plenty to be excited about but it's about measuring that isn't it it's about kind of tempering that and I know that's not what everybody wants to do I know and I get it like I don't have a season ticket I'm not sat here paying the most expensive prices in the country to to watch Spurs every other week um at the stadium so I understand the frustration I understand why why aren't we aiming to try and win the Premier League this season?

48:42Jack:He said it. Levy said it in a video. Why aren't we trying to do that? Why aren't we at least trying to make sure that we are a team that is capable at least of finishing in the top five, top four? I don't think we are that. I don't look at us and think, yeah, I mean, we can definitely get it. Maybe we can sneak into the top four, but I don't think it's very likely, honestly speaking. Yeah, you're going to need like a literal, it's going to have to be sort of a Pochettino the sort of the level of the squad increases by like 50 % just through good coaching kind of miracle to be able for it to happen because even if you look at like our direct rivals for even finishing like the top eight like Newcastle's front three is Isak, Gordon and El Angro at the moment that's like it's comfortably better than what we've got and obviously you know the Chelsea Arsenal, Man United Man City, sorry not Man United Liverpool, Man City it's just yeah it's a huge ask to get anywhere near the top five even at the moment.

49:37But I think, I do think Frank will improve us big time. Yes. At the moment, you're asking him to do miracles when I would just like us to see, give him a platform to be able to think, oh, actually, now we've actually given him the tools, he might actually be able to get in the top four. Not like he's going to have to do a miracle to get there.

49:57Jack:George at Bipolar underscore THFC says, do you think Levy is happy with the sweet spot of fifth, sixth place, with the chance that we might sneak into the top four without paying top four transfer fees and salaries?

50:16Jack:Probably, but I don't think it's just a Levy. I think that's kind of a football thing. But in terms of on Levy, I think that's always kind of been our model, hasn't it? That we're going to try to aim to compete for the top honours, but we're not going to try and buy the league. We're not going to compete with Man City in that way. it's always a kind of I've always sort of said it it'll be a happy a happy accident if we do manage to do something wild like we almost did in 16-17 under Pochettino right yeah it's definitely he's much more of a calculated risk guy than a Liverpool style transfer window guy isn't he for sure and I do think I think that I've spoken many many years about what I feel about Daniel Levy and everything and there's you know you can it's a huge argument but I think genuinely speaking what he wants is to be in Europe regularly, to have European football and then the increasing amount of home games playing for Tottenham because that's where our revenue comes from and to be balancing the books in a sustainable way and I think you've got 25 years of evidence to show that's more important to him than winning trophies we've never had a season a transfer window like Liverpool are having right now where you just throw caution to the wind and go and spend$250,$300 million with the provisor that you should hopefully be winning the trophy after that.

51:40He's not done it in 25 years. I can't imagine him ever doing it. He's got an economics degree from Cambridge. He's like a calculated risk guy. That's the guy that he is. He wants to run an investment company. He's all about investment, profitability, sustainability. And you can make plenty of arguments to say that that's a good thing and it's doing it the right way and stuff. but he's never going to be that guy that goes out and splashes, let's go and try and win the Premier League with a transfer window. It's just not him and I don't think it ever will be.

52:09Jack:There's a few questions surrounding change for Tottenham and your links with them and everything, Bill. But I guess the good one from Debs that sort of summed it up best, at DJL03, says, we the fans still don't know how positive this this transfer window is going to be what are change for Tottenham's thoughts on how to relay to the board and Levy our continued concerns on how the club is being run um and like I said a few other questions along that theme of are change for Tottenham going to be still kind of active this season are we you know are things going to happen do you know what I've I genuinely believe and I've been thinking about this a lot over the last couple of days.

52:54In that period of, it sounds like we're talking about a trophy win or something like that. Well, I'm not. I'm talking about a transfer story. When that period happened, when we signed Kudus and then immediately got linked with Morgan Gibbs-White and then the stuff talking about investment came out, all Spurs fans were so happy, weren't they? And I think that's shown the board and everyone. Actually, what we want to be feeling like as fans is we just want to feel like our club is having a go. Yeah. And we're robbed of that. transfer window after transfer window. That feeling shows that if we have a club that looks like they're being ambitious and looks like they're actually trying to do stuff, we'll be happy as a fan base.

53:34And I think until we get that regularly, then change for Tottenham are always going to be relevant because we've seen already that feeling of goodwill has already dissipated in two weeks. And that talk of investment has suddenly randomly disappeared. The Morgan Gibbs-White transfer looks to be collapsing or something has happened. And we've signed no other players since. So I think change for Tottenham are always going to be around in the background for when, you know, if it does, you know, people are talking about, well, lots of change, you know, Vinay has come in, you know, Donald Cullen has stepped down.

54:02There has been, I'm not saying that's because of change for Tottenham or anything like that, by the way, I'm just saying that there has been literal change at Tottenham. So it'd be interesting to see what happens. But I just feel with Tottenham, we've been promised so many false dawns over the last 25 years that, you know, things like change for Tottenham and all change for Tottenham is, by the way, it's just a platform for fans to sort of stick up for their own football club. because we showed how in big numbers last season, fans do want a voice and do want to protest to show that we are sort of getting fed up with it, really.

54:29But all I would say is it's very easily solved by just the club showing a bit of ambition. Because when they did that this summer, for those glorious two days, everyone was happy. So I will say, until we get that sustainably, then change to Tottenham will always be relevant.

54:44Jack:Joe W at Joe3WPW says, if Billy had to get a tattoo of Daniel Levy's face and little bald head where would he get it and why? If I was going to do that I would have to do it on the proviso that we won the Premier League and I would have to say that that would mean I've won a Premier League bet so I'd happily get it on my forehead if we won the Premier League to be honest so I'd go for the forehead on the proviso that it means we've won something meaningful because I would happily do that and just like I am you've got to be careful saying this Bill like do you know what I mean like because that's sort of like you don't want to go like full post Malone with a Daniel Levy head on you did you see that did you see that guy that had a selfie with him a couple of days ago and posted it on Twitter no some guy just met him outside the stadium or something and it just made me realise like it would not be a great face to have him I thought you meant post Malone yeah I saw the one at the but the funny the thing about that is he phrased it almost in the way that Flav does with his, you know, I met whoever and he dragged me into a cupboard and did unspeakable things to me.

55:54It's not a face with tattoos,

55:56Jack:is it, put it that way? I met Levy outside the stadium, asked him if we were going to sign, what is it, Morgan Gibbs White? He said, haha, we'll see or something, didn't he? Make of that, and Flav always goes, make of that what you will, doesn't he? But yeah, I would happily get anywhere tattooed anywhere if we won the Premier League. But yeah. I did it with Manjot for the Europa League and then he got sacked the next day. So there's a lesson there to be known. Like Madison has, you know, he's got his trophies on his legs, doesn't he? I think on his calves, isn't he? Get a Levy bald head on your calves so he can smile at people as they walk behind you.

56:35Jack:I was thinking that when, I was genuinely thinking like when, when we, in that glorious two-day period of the transfer window, which we're now looking back on, like it's a Premier League win in itself. When we got linked with Adam Morton as well, I was thinking, Jesus Christ, am I going to have to completely rein in anything bad I've ever said about Daniel Levy if we signed through this? I haven't messed that off. Gibbs, right, and Morton, then I'm Levy in, put it that way.

57:04Jack:Daniel Platt on Blue Sky, at Daniel Platt, says, what recent manager of ours do you feel would make the most competent in a normal office setting? To me, it feels like it's frank. Could you imagine Conte in a normal job? Question mark. I think this goes back to what we were saying at the beginning, right? That none of our recent managers would be any good at it whatsoever because they're all like massive egoists. Like Ange and Mourinho and Conte have much more in common than they do in difference. Like they're all massive egoists really. and they're all dogmatic to their philosophy. And they would be absolutely shocking in an opposite environment, wouldn't they?

57:43Conte would last three minutes, but definitely, definitely Frank without a doubt. I feel like even Pochettino, I can't imagine Poch being so passionate and emotional, isn't he, that he would just get like, I just can't imagine him sitting behind a desk sending emails. He's too much of an emotional guy. It's definitely got to be Frank, right?

57:58Jack:No, he'd always be calling, Poch would always be calling his supervisor into a meeting room to have to air something. Do you know what I mean? Like you say, he would be able to send like the passive aggressive email to somebody, but then he'd need to vent for about half an hour about it. And I'm sure anybody that's ever worked with me is probably now thinking that I'm throwing stones within my glass house. Just like lemons all over the desk and everything. Just sort of weird guy in the office. Somebody taking one for their like tea and him getting all cross with them about it. And would be like, he wouldn't have a computer.

58:32He'd like write everything down. So wouldn't he be like, no, I'm not doing that, mate.

58:35Jack:You know like in cartoons how people have got those little jotters that are ring-binded at the top and they feel like a little reporter's notepad. He'd have it on there on a pencil. A pencil that he'd lick the end of before he wrote it. Don't do XL, mate. Don't do that. Nah, none of that, mate.

58:55Jack:It's a good one. Nate at State of Coys says, in the Pete Pochettino era, we had players every other club wanted. Walker, Jan, Toby, Rose, Dembele, Dele, Ericsson, Kane, Son. How many of these type of players are in the current team? So if you take it literally, literally how many? So I think you could definitely say Romero. Yeah. I think you could say the fullbacks as well. I think you could even say Spence as well, to be honest. Bergvau would be definitely one. Randeven, you could say, I think. Van de Ven without a doubt. Kulisevsky without a doubt. And that's probably, you know, who else have we got?

59:40Jack:I think a lot of teams would take Solanke, but maybe not the top teams. And then I think in terms of young players, you've got Mikey Moore and Archie Gray. Anyone would take those, I think. Buskiewicz obviously as well. Yeah, it's definitely not the same as the Poch era, but don't forget, those players didn't have that regard until Poch coached them to be that. so maybe when Frank has got his hold of these guys we're going to have a lot more of them because people like and I've said this before you know when people do that thing where they show the Pochettino team the classic Dembele in the midfield etc and everyone's like how didn't Pochettino win a trophy with this team but he made that team and it wasn't seen as this list of great players until he took them so I think the same could hopefully happen with Frank and also isn't there because it's that graphic from 16-17 isn't it I think it was also We lost that game as well.

1:00:30Jack:Yeah, we lost that game. And also, I think that line-up only played together like three times in total. Yeah, we lost one of them, yeah. Yeah, which is... None of those players were particularly massively favoured until Poch came. Vertonghen was like... Remember when he was leaning against the wall in Liverpool and stuff? And obviously Son nearly left. Kane was a bit of a joke figure. You forgot to be... Dembele was... Yeah. Dier was... No one had ever heard of Eric Dier. Karl Walker was known as mistake-making him right back. Danny Rose was like literally bullied by his own fans. So yeah, I think while that is true at the moment, it might not be true in two years' time under Frank coaching.

1:01:09Can I just ask you one question? Which player do you think you're most excited to see Frank get his hands on?

1:01:17Jack:Good question.

1:01:22Jack:Do you know what? This is just my, this is like, when you've asked me that there was just one player that came to mind it might not be the most rational it might be quite random but I kind of feel like tell yeah in some ways and you know I just sort of look at what he did with Mbwemo what he's done with like players like Ollie Watkins before in the past and you're giving him like one of the best raw materials that you could ask for as a girl exactly so because the thing about tell is yeah I get why I'm not I'm you know I'm not disappointed about but what I'm saying is I'm not like buzzing that we made it a permanent deal I could have probably I would have said I could have taken it or leaving it left it I floated towards the idea of it being a net good move for us and I'm so I'm glad that we signed him I wasn't buzzing about it by any stretch of the imagination but what I think I will say is despite him not kind of tearing up trees last season he was definitely one of those players that when you've watched enough football you can sort of say there's a player there.

1:02:23Jack:And I'm not saying he's definitely going to realise that, but as you say, the raw materials are there for him to be brilliant. So, yeah, I think just my reflex reaction to that question is Mathis Tell. I think he's the one I'm sort of excited about seeing what Frank can potentially do with him. There's so many of them, right? Archie Gray. Yeah, I was going to say Archie Gray just because we never really got to see him in midfield, do we? And I feel like Frank will make him a midfielder now. And mate, I even wonder genuinely, I even wonder like, we've sort of forgotten about him, even though he scored the cup winning goal for us.

1:02:58Jack:Brennan Johnson was a player that Thomas Frank wanted for a long time. And I know he's a player that has, say, his limitations as things stand. But what's to say that Thomas Frank can't take his career onto another level as well? Because we know still that there is a lot of ability there with Brennan Johnson. We know that there's a lot of ability there. 100%. Yeah. So we can see there's plenty of players that I'm excited to see play under him. We'll stay on the Thomas Frank theme. Tom Foynes at Tom Foynes has asked, and I think it's a really good question, how much can we make a Frank coming from Brentford, a team that has no real rivals, to a team that is basically hated by the entire league?

1:03:41Jack:I actually really think there's something in that. What do you make of that, mate? The only thing, I saw this question yesterday and I thought we might ask it because it's a really good question. The only thing I did think about it, though, was we had Ange, who came from the most hated derby, the heated derby in the world, and is absolutely shocking in derbies for Tottenham. So I'm not sure how much relevance there has, but I just wonder, like, I just think one of the big, and I said this on last one in Spurs, when we got Frank in the first place, is one of the big things that I want, I just want to be competitive in those derbies again.

1:04:14And I don't know if it's maybe like you have to, know the history of what it feels like to be hated or the history of the rivalry. I just feel like you need to be able to make your football team competitive in those games and be winning duels and stuff like that because we've been so shocking in derbies for two years under Ange. We've lost every game against Chelsea and we've got one draw against Arsenal and one win against West Ham. We've been absolutely terrible in derbies. And I feel like when you used to watch Brentford, they always turn up in those games and they always make them physical and compete and stuff.

1:04:46so I think rather than worrying about the fact that he's never really had rivals before I just hope that he can make us play like we are in an actual derby because I feel like Ange is all about the good football and the philosophy of attacking all the time I feel like in a derby sometimes you just need to get stuck in a bit more don't you and we've just been so bad at that for like two years I really one of the big things I want from Thomas Frank is to actually be competitive in those derbies again because it's been absolutely depressing as a fan to have six games against Chelsea, we've lost all of them, whatever it is, four or five games against Arsenal, we've only drawn one of them.

1:05:20It's been horrific, hasn't it?

1:05:22Jack:Yeah. Like you say, going through a spillover is actually going toe-to-toe with those clubs to now being back to it being a sort of three-point lane, if you like, situation is just... Yeah, it's detestable. I do think sometimes, and struggled a bit with the fact that... and he called it out a lot, but I think sometimes he let it get to him a little bit as well. The fact that if you're Tottenham manager, you're going to get some absolutely ridiculous things labelled at you and thrown at you. I can't remember when he said it last season, but he was like, why is it always Tottenham? I think it was something to do with Man United, I can't remember what, but he came out and said, why is it Tottenham that always get labelled this and stuff like that?

1:06:02And I think he let it get into his head quite a lot, where I think Frank might be a bit more philosophical about it all, but you're definitely going to get so much stick and hatred there's a Tottenham manager in the press conferences, aren't you? Like definitely, it's not like a perceived thing. Like everyone hates us.

1:06:17Jack:I think the fact that he is quite stern, Frank, just on a sort of, on a human level, he's got that sort of headmaster type vibe about him. And I don't mean that to be... And he was a teacher, wasn't he, before he was a manager? Well, there you go. He kind of commands the room in that way that I think, I get the feeling anyway that he doesn't let journalists take the piss. He like, he seems to sort of, I'm trying to recall situations but I just feel like there are times when he will hold them to account I don't think he'll be as combative as Ange was with the journos, I think he'll be like more, I don't know, he's a bit more reasoned isn't he Ange is very emotional Yeah, definitely We'll end this on a few sort of interesting ones, funny ones I guess Christopher Hall, I'm going to ask this because he's asked this every single time I've asked for questions Christopher Hall on Instagram says why are we so shit?

1:07:14It's a good question and I've spent my last as those DMs proved when we used to get together in 2017 I think we're in a unique place aren't we as a football club because there's just so much to talk about all the time and it's usually like there's so much to poke fun at and back in whatever it was 2017, 16, 15 when we made those videos together about Tottenham. There's just always an angle with Tottenham, aren't there? I know people say stuff about being funny on Twitter or whatever, but I feel like with Tottenham, you don't really need to do anything like Tottenham does all the hard work for you.

1:07:49Is that what you think as well? It's so easy to do the stuff that we used to do about Tottenham where you do satirical videos about Tottenham. I don't know. We just seem to attract the most ridiculous situations always.

1:08:01Jack:Yeah, and I know it's that. I know people sort of like make fun of people saying satire is dead now it can't exist because I think Charlie Brook has said it since like Trump and Brexit and all that type of stuff as in like you can't really satirize like the real world anymore it's difficult it might have actually been Armando Iannucci that said it um there's just it's harder and harder now to to to satirize things and like you say the amount of ridiculous situations that seem to be the more complicing probably going to lead to some sort of rule change or something like that we might be on the verge of another like bosman type yeah situation happening here because nottingham forest simply are saying no we're not going to let him go for the even though there's a release clause because i know like you remember like when kepper refused to get off the pitch when when um sorry tried to substitute and suddenly there was that sort of weird thing where the commentators the officials everybody was kind of like what do we do in this situation when somebody just says no?

1:09:05Jack:They're not going to do it and everyone's heads were kind of spinning. It kind of feels that way with this doesn't it with the Morgan Gibbs White thing how do you laugh about that? How do you make fun of it? It's an objectively ridiculous and hilarious situation it just is. I know every fan of their own club probably feels like they're the club that is like that but I genuinely believe objectively Tottenham is that club. We've had so many rules changed in the wake of us. We have so many ridiculous situations, like being the only club to finish fourth and not be in the Champions League, like the Sissoko handball.

1:09:38I think we just attract... And I think the reason why we're considered so shit is what we spoke about before. It's because we're like the only top six club that you can punch down on and punch up at the same time. We're the only club that are in the top six, but not really in the top six. So we're like the laughingstock of the top six. And therefore, the top six will hate us and the teams below the top six hate us as well. So I think that's why we're sort of viewed as shits because we have all the provisions of being a big club without any of the success of it. So I think that's our unique space on the football landscape is we're a big club without the historic success of a big club or the Premier League level success of a big club.

1:10:17Jack:It's annoying, isn't it? It's annoying. Tom Force at Force Tom says, why don't the rough town pigeons you see around the countryside around the country even just fly to the Balearics and have a better quality of life? Yeah, that's a good question. I'll tell you what, to be a football philosopher to about that is maybe they're like Tottenham fans and they enjoy the struggle because, you know, we could say to us, why don't we just go and support Man City? There's something in the struggle though, isn't there, man? There's something about the chase that makes it worth living. Do you know what folded me over, mate?

1:10:51Jack:Like, honestly, made me really sad is that I read this thing once, it might have been on Instagram like one of these wildlife accounts that were saying like we just kind of take it that pigeons are like you know pests that they're like this thing that exists but they were actually like the domesticated they're the same as like dogs or cats like they were taken from the wild and domesticated the pigeon that you see today is like a different type of creature than ever existed in nature we we domesticated them to use them for years um to help us to help society flourish to help it function and then just as technology advanced we sort of turned our backs on them and uh and i suddenly was like oh my god yeah i just got like consumed by this like i don't know sort of ennui about it that is real like god i feel so bad for them like what one awful parasitic species human beings really are but maybe that is uh tottenham in some ways like we used to be you know back in the 50s 60s the big club and then as time's gone past you know the Sky Money's come in we've never really been able to keep up with it now we're like the pigeons of the football we just don't go away we're not going anywhere but we're also not going to ever fly to our top heights anymore no we're just there shitting on tourists that's it mate and everyone hates us yeah exactly that's it that's it get the pigeon pigeon on the badge we almost are really aren't we I think it's John Bass isn't it he's got the pigeon on the football last question for the day mate and I think this is actually this is a really nice talking point to end on Peter Drury at the underscore PES11 on Twitter asks if you had to choose either the instant euphoria of signing a world-class star for example Mbappe or the incremental euphoria of say Will Lancashire becoming a£100 million, 30-goal-a-strike a season, what would you go for?

1:12:55I'd probably go for the latter just because we know how good that is. And as much as it's kind of, in some ways, been soured in the last few years and the fact that he seems to absolutely hate us and refuses to talk about us in any interview whatsoever and pretends like some goal that he scored against Hoffenheim means more than the one that he did against Arsenal. Watching Harry Kane come through probably remains like the best thing I've ever seen in my life in terms of the football um it's probably like the best feeling like watching him every week going from being like such a terrible striker when he came through um you know not being able to get hold down alone anywhere to being like the best striker in the world was just incredible and we witnessed it through all and watching it in like a gradual approach week in week week in week out and seeing him get better was incredible so I probably go the only reason I would say the other thing is because we've never really got that we've never signed a world-class player in all my years you know and certainly since i've been a proper fan you can i'm sure older fans could probably liken klinsman to that but um i was a bit too young for that so i might go just to try something a bit different but the cane thing was

1:14:00Jack:really special wasn't it i'm just saying but probably doing rafa van der vaat a little oh yeah yeah that's but i actually do remember like and i saw someone um was tweeting about yesterday saying, you know, what happened with transfers before Fabrizio Romano? I remember actually watching that with my dad on Sky Sports News. I'm literally, like, jumping on the sofas. It's going absolutely mental. That's crazy. The thing is, that thing has been, like, completely robbed now by Fabrizio Romano, who, like, tweets every single minor detail of a transfer, like, so to the point where he's even revealing what time the announcement's going to be.

1:14:31And all that kind of excitement has sucked out completely.

1:14:35Jack:And that's when he's not kind of completely fluffing up the fairytale narrative of Mason greenwood right exactly and thomas party for yeah for an agent fee i i i mean i i agree with that on the lancer thing and it sort of it brings me back to because you know the debate is always kicking off and i understand why people are like in a huff with kane i do get it but like one of the arguments i always see made is like i i prefer bail anyway i never felt that excitement with harry kane it's like i just i just look i'm not here to police what other people are saying but it's like I think so much of Kane's almost legacy at Spurs is dictated by the last few years where it was such a grind and it was so miserable.

1:15:17Jack:He was still scoring despite all that, but it was so miserable. It was so weighted that everything was for Kane. Do you know what I mean? We have to get in the top four for Kane. I was going to go, we have to win a trophy for Kane. It was so all consumed by Kane. It's totally forgetting the fact that this kid, this so-called donkey from our academy started getting game time because like Adebayor and Soldado were injured or unfit for purpose the kid from the academy can do a job till the end of the season and then we can sign a striker in summer whatever suddenly became a world-class player in the space of half a season you know that that that came that sort of came the the free kick at Aston Villa and I defy you were there mate I defy anybody to really say there have been many bigger limbs like than that came like free kick against Aston Villa and then the Chelsea game the 5-3 and then the Arsenal 2-1 exactly see him like rise in front of your very eyes it was incredible it was so exciting seeing the the mask goal at Whitehall Lane honestly I've gone about all the time my head nearly exploded I nearly actually had a heart attack and died in the stand watching that like It was unbelievable.

1:16:34Jack:I couldn't believe what I was seeing. That last game, the last North London derby at White Hart Lane, 16-17, everyone's singing for Dele Alli, everyone's singing for Harry Kane, knowing that we were better than Arsenal, and what was leading the line for us was Harry Kane, was this lad from our academy. It was unbelievable. It was incredible. The fact that that photo of the last game at White Hart Lane, the pitching invasion of him being mobbed, it's iconic. And it's so it's still heartbreaking on a certain level that we never got to see him lift that Premier League trophy or lift even lift even this Europa League trophy.

1:17:18Jack:And he made his own bed and he'll have to deal with that. And he's got his Bundesliga. Great. Well done to him. But he knows and we know that that Europa League would have meant so much. Imagine, imagine. I mean, Carl Walker came out and said it, didn't he, himself? And imagine the picture. Imagine full time seeing Kane and Son standing there holding that Europa League trophy. And he knows that. He knows that. And that will haunt him forever. I'm sorry. It just, it will do. And he knows it. But it doesn't mean we didn't have wonderful memories of him. And, you know, if Will Langshaar went on to do that, wonderful, great.

1:17:55Jack:On a certain level, though, I've got to say, it would be quite wild if we suddenly, like, bought Mbappe as well. You know, I'm really, I just, I've really been thinking about it this summer. Like, imagine what Liverpool fans are feeling right now, like winning the league and then go and spend 300 million on it every player going. Like, imagine how good that feels. It just would be nice to do it just once. You know, just having like that. But yeah, because we had a Vandervaar and we had Bale coming back was kind of, obviously he was in like the twilight of his career, but we've just never gone out and signed.

1:18:26Like we've never had been that transfer story where we're like the biggest story of the summer, like the, you know, like a Vurts or someone like that. We just, we've never done it.

1:18:37Jack:Maybe, maybe there's still time, Bill. You know, this is whatever it is. Do you remember the day when, do you remember when Arsenal signed Ozil? I was so depressed that day, man. Yeah. And then they signed Sanchez here after whatever it was. And I was, God, I just want that transfer. Come on, I want it once in my life. The closest thing we have with Bale on loan, you know, in COVID. That was it. I want that transfer that really gets under the grinds the Arsenal fans. Who is that though, Bill? Who is that now? Do you know what I mean? Probably someone like Liao or someone like that would do it.

1:19:10Jack:But is it like, I mean, I always try to think, I've tried to make this comparison before. I was sort of saying, because I was very young when we signed Klinsman. I was conscious of the fact we'd signed a good player. And it was more because my dad was buzzing about it that I got it more. But I'm sort of trying to think like... There's not, yeah, there's not, because I don't think Guillaume Perez is on that level of that level. I think he's a very good signing, but he's not, I don't, there's not loads of players around these days that are like that, are there? I'd be buzzing like if somehow, if we signed like Isak, for example.

1:19:43Jack:Yeah. I think Isak is maybe the best, if not one of the best players in his position in maybe even world football. People might gun me for that, but I think he's an outrageously talented player. I don't know. If I got that Kovac Kalia from Napoli at the time, that would have been... It's that kind of level sign, isn't it? We've got Brian Hill, so we got him through the door. yeah poor lad Bill it's been an absolute pleasure mate I would sort of say where can people follow you but everybody's already following you so at Billy underscore T if you're not thank you so much man well obviously we've been working together for like 10 plus years now and I'm such an avid listener of this podcast so thank you very much I appreciate it mate and is Hometown Glory kicking off any time soon?

1:20:42Yeah yeah so we're going to do a few a couple of you know interim ones on the Mondays and yeah I'm just looking forward to getting back on there actually because I'm about to go and see Fantastic Four this weekend

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