WORLD CUP DIGEST: Haaland Dismantles Brazil, Trump's Intervention & A Messi Escape

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40:15Phil:Yeah, yeah, it's definitely ruined it. I mean, because what, they weren't the first game, were they? America or United States of America, given their full title. but of that stage of those first like couple of rounds in the in the group stages I thought they were one of the the teams that surprised me the most let's say that whether they were the best team I was like I couldn't believe how they played against Paraguay so I had to change my perspective of it and that's what the World Cup should be and that should have been the starting point for them to go on as you say might not go on and win it because it's a huge ask but if they've gone out you know on their shields as it were then I think we're talking about it before that would have given the American Football Association something to harness and then go on you know your point about if we made our NBA stars start playing football in five absolute nonsense their messy probably hasn't been born yet right because it takes that that long for it to embed it might be 20 30 years before America are in the point where they can you know draw on the resources that they have in terms of people because they have you know it's a numbers game if you've got that many people then surely someone's going to be, you know, an excellent world-class footballer.

41:26Phil:So it takes time. I just think it's really, really sad, as you say. I mean, think about what you're just saying there about fans, right? Think about it for a player who absolutely adores football, like any of the players that are playing for England or any European teams, right? They love it. They've grown up with it. They get to play at the World Cup. And then you've got everyone at home supporting you. Imagine what it's like for these players. and all right boohoo there's probably still multi-millionaires and stuff but let's put that aside the human beings imagine going into that tournament being like oh my god the world cup on our soil this is beyond anything i could ever imagine from because i was that five-year-old with a ball at my feet right they're the few that have kind of gone through the systems and in fact for people you say about you know not having arsehole fans on your doorstep that's that is rough don't go wrong but ambivalence on your doorstep and people just not accepted that you are i'm playing at the world cup right back for it for america and no one seems to really care that's rough and then they kind of overcame that you know with that first result against paraguay everyone's sat up and said oh hang on a minute the united states are playing in the world that we didn't think that that was at all possible and then you know they kind of grubbed it a little bit through the through the group stages and and whatever but for that to all now be dashed away is really kind of sad for him mate and again you know you can you can be sort of anti-american as much as all you want but as going back to my point about what the the world cup actually is it's just putting normal people next to each other and they tend to just get along right so certainly in these kind of situations so for that to be just like run roughshod over by you know interference and now everyone's like good I'm glad America got kicked out or booted out by Belgium haha look how funny is that Lukaku's doing this dance after scoring their fourth against America that's really tough mate and I don't think any of the players or you know staff or whomever and certainly the fans who were behind America and who were like we're probably not going to win it but I want to see a good show in right which is I think an acceptable situation it's just been ripped away from and that's tough yeah I saw I think it's Demarcus Beasley was on ITV or no he was on BBC doing part of their punditry and I was just thinking like god I hadn't thought about him in in ages I remember he always stood out because he was like he was a baller you know he was a good player and you're like god wow there's an American playing in Europe Landon Donovan came a little bit later but there was some overlap now wasn't that condensate as well obviously I just remember sort of yeah DeMarcus Beasley was one of those players I'd sign in football manager, championship manager back in the day, and he was always good.

44:06And he was sort of sat there reflecting on kind of what it was like, how he's seen the sport grow in the States, how he's seen it be taken somewhat more seriously over there. And, look, you know, of course, you can always have your concern about the United States taking sport seriously or not, but whatever. You know, I still back the fact that there's plenty of other teams that, regardless of whether they do or not, in the world that will still be able to match them. And I think, you know, like you say, I don't know. I think just as I've gotten a bit older and a bit soppier, I just think it's nice that, like you say, people are recognized.

44:46People are recognized for caring about something and they're not just turned into some joke because it isn't fair. you know it isn't fair on a lot of that like you say a lot of those professionals have had to and we've sort of seen a similar narrative of revenge right coming out of australia that not only are you having to fight the outsiders who are saying what does an aussie or an american know about football you lot call it soccer they've also got their mates who are the quarterback who are the you know the the all-star sort of high school nba basketball player saying god you play for you play soccer, you know?

45:27Usually, I think that carries with it a level of homophobia from what I've heard, you know, the perception of football and stuff. Those guys have sort of come through all of that and have done that. But look, you know, I say that the United States women's team has won three or four World Cups and they're absolutely flying. So, you know, we shouldn't forget that. And fair play to them. But, you know, I think part of that, again, is about the cultural prioritisation of the sports and what have you in the way in which football has been viewed in America classically for a long time. Again, I'm not trying to take away from the...

46:09Oh, God, you can't say anything nowadays, can you? You're trying to say a nice thing.

46:14Phil:No, but I think it's right. And I think you touched on it there. The fact that the women's game in America is world class, right? It's world beating. We've seen that. We've seen, as you say, They've won the World Cup a number of times. So, but that brings with it a level of misogyny, it seems. It's like, well, they would do because it's a woman's game. So, but the men, the men play, you know, the men play American football, NFL or basketball. That's men's game. So it just detracts. And, you know, as much as, you know, you can see them as different sports or different entities. I think America getting good, America's men's team getting good at football and embedding that in American society is better for all facets of the game, right?

46:57Phil:But it's just kind of overlooked and seen as this. Oh, well done. Well done. The women did it. Yeah, good on them. But we don't really take it that seriously. That might be unfair, but that's the kind of idea that you get looking from the outside in. I can't remember if it was ITK or if it was, on record but i seem to recall when when spurs signed alex morgan for example a lot of the talk coming out of there was she came in and was like appalled by the state of like the facilities on offer for spurs women um and uh i guess probably the the casual disregard for the women's team from the club and she was like there like i i'm pretty sure i've seen some people credit her with the club getting their act together somewhat towards the women's team um i mean i would imagine that's partly a cynical commercial decision from the club's perspective but i like to maintain some sort of sense that the club actually care and would listen to a decorated world-class player like alex morgan who's come to the club and telling them right now your approach to this is not right um so shameful my point is yeah my point is we don't entirely have our ship in order over here and it's very easy for us to sit there and say america need to do this and do that um when also a lot of the time it's about priorities and it's about whatever but still you know so long to the united states um there's some talk already that potch is going to get the boot so we'll see we'll see what how deserve he pans out and maybe we'll be we'll be pining for Portugal again come what late November it'll start early November and then it'll happen late November but let's not make it Spurs centric yeah exactly Portugal nil Spain won first half I actually really quite enjoyed and then suddenly it was very much like come on get on with it get on with it you two quite an underwhelming game Cristiano Ronaldo's last world cup probably last international game i would imagine there's a lot of portuguese fans who even if they're not outwardly saying it are thinking thank fuck for that because he's been to me he's been a total shadow over their world cup um yeah and we sort of talk about the fast that has followed the America-Belgium game, this in itself was somewhat farcical, I thought.

49:40Watching Portugal, for my money, sacrifice their own ambition to keep him happy.

49:48Phil:Yeah, and again, people can say it's something different by all means, but that's what it seems like. That seems to be the consensus on it, right? I mean, I saw someone say that he would have been better off or they would have been better off bringing him on with 30 minutes to go each game, you know, doing it that way because people, you'd then be excited about seeing Ronaldo come on. Oh, what's he going to do? As opposed to seeing what he was only able to kind of serve up, which was, it was a bit, it was sad in a way, isn't it? I know that he's a massive divisive figure, right? And, you know, you can beat him with many sticks, but he was quality, mate.

50:25Phil:He was absolutely quality. And again, a big shout from me saying Ronaldo was good, big, you know, but still and I think partly partly it was you know breaking news everybody I don't know if you guys have seen this this kid this 41 year old kid Cristiano Ronaldo yeah um but I think as well like the situation that they seem to have got themselves in the player power element to it and you know I don't know if the player the other players are just so sort of like um bowing to him and see him as this like godlike figure that they didn't seem upset that it was happening. I think part of it was that you really didn't, you have this situation, however it's come about with this 41 year old who can't really move, certainly not like he used to.

51:10Phil:And they still didn't even play to his strengths. They didn't play to that. They just didn't really get balls into him. They didn't really kind of put it on the plate for him to kind of even see this idealistic thing that they were trying to provide through to the end. It was a very strange end to things. Yeah, really sort of unbecoming as well. That's just not how you do it. I mean, Modric was a bit like that in the England game. He just looks so, as much as like, oh wow, Modric is still playing. This is amazing. And then you see him and you're like, this lad shouldn't be anywhere near this. Certainly not starting XI.

51:47Phil:So there is a bit of that. Obviously, Modric doesn't get the same sort of heat that Ronaldo does. But yeah, I mean, that game in itself, it did sort of, it looked like it was going to be a barnstormer, right? And it just didn't really sort of take off. It just kind of, yeah, petered out a bit. And Spain have been a bit like that, isn't it? I don't know if they ever, they haven't seemed to have taken off or, you know, ignited at all. So it remains to be seen if they actually will or if they're just a bit pedestrian at the moment because they're sort of playing within themselves or not. But yeah, I mean, they've had a rotten record in the World Cup since they won it, haven't they?

52:27Phil:So I don't know. It just doesn't seem to quite be clicking for them. I think it's something crazy like, you know, before like round of 32 and then round of 16, they hadn't won a World Cup game since they actually won the World Cup. Yeah. Is it something crazy like that? It's something crazy like that. Yeah. What was it? 2014 they won it, right? oh so this is going back isn't it yeah 2010 was germany yeah yeah yeah or is it the other way around was it 2010 spain 2014 can't remember but anyway there was some bad stat like that wasn't it that just showed that they just i mean they won the euros last year so or last time but um but still yeah so yeah a bit of a just a weird showing from from spain where you think oh they're the other favourites in England are maybe the third favourites or, you know, maybe Brazil or Germany in that sort of echelon of club or teams.

53:23Phil:But yeah, Spain haven't really done anything to warrant that at the moment in my book, as much as they are through to the quarterfinals. I look at them because if I were to be, if I compare them to England, I look at Spain and I think their base level across the sort of average of the squad is higher than England's. but then I also look at Spain and I think Rodri's a very good player, but he's primarily a defensive player. I know he's somewhat box to box, but you would position him more towards a sort of like defensive number eight type position, number six. Do they really have a Bellingham? He's almost very good.

54:04I think almost incredible, actually. I really like him as a footballer. Am I taking him over Duke Bellingham? Absolutely not. not a chance. Do they have anyone on the level of Harry Kane? Absolutely not. Nowhere close. So, you know, I think it's that type of balance, you know. Pedro Porro has been quietly one of the stars of their World Cup campaign as well, which is, you know, again, like you say, not to bring things to being too much of a Spurs-centric thing, but showing what a masterstroke it was to tie him down to a new contract before the World Cup. started. Great move there. But yeah, I mean, look, again, as we were sort of saying of Morocco earlier, but probably on another level, Spain are not a side you're going to go into.

54:54Look, they just beat England in the Euros final a couple of years ago, right? They're not a team to really sort of take for granted.

55:05And look, you know, I think Yamal has not I don't think he's shown a lot this tournament, to be honest. I don't think he's... I think he's actually not very good at points in this tournament.

55:22Phil:I think he came into it with an injury, didn't he? That's the thing. So I think he's probably not sharp enough. But he's there, you know, and you can never... He's a sore player. You can't ever take for granted. You can't take your eyes off of him. so look yeah I mean if they end up meeting if they end up meeting France in the semi-finals I'd expect it to be a good game I'd expect them to probably try and do what Paraguay did stifle the game suck the air out of the occasion and just hope that that is enough to stop France but I'd be surprised if they make their way through to the final. But equally not surprised, you know?

56:12That's what they exist for me.

56:14Phil:I feel like they've got to actually, if you think about it, them versus France, it's quite a good matchup for Spain in terms of they've got really strong fullbacks. You know, you mentioned Pedro Porra, but Cucurello's been great as well. I might actually hate to say it, as long as at least he's not in the Premier League anymore. Well, he's Real Madrid. Yeah, yeah. So I think Spain are set up kind of well to match France, certainly in a sort of defensive shape without having to drop too much into the dreaded low block, as it were, and kick them off the park. So, I mean, we're talking about that.

56:44Phil:I'm just looking at Spain's results. They haven't conceded a goal. But again, Uruguay is probably their biggest test. They haven't conceded a goal? No. So it's weird, isn't it? We've got this, or I've got this perspective, and I've watched every minute of it. Again, it feels like the World Cup started three months ago. It's mad, isn't it? Or six months ago. It's just been going on forever, which is great. But yeah, I mean, Uruguay was their sort of big test. Uruguay were absolutely bobbins, weren't they? Well, I don't know what the hell was going on there. They were a big sort of mess team, weren't they, where it all just sort of imploded.

57:15Phil:And they only beat them sort of 1-0, smashed up Austria 3-0, which I felt like was probably, again, sort of, it didn't feel like it was a 3-0 game, thinking back on it. I think that they, yeah, it flattered Spain a little bit. But, you know, Spain were good in that. Now we're kind of thinking about it. But, yeah, maybe they're going under the radar, yeah, on reflection. Maybe that's the case. So we'll see. But I think you're right. I think it will be a really kind of good, interesting matchup between them and France if they both get there. You're just telling me they've not conceded a goal. I got that same sort of reflex then when, you know, back in the day at school when somebody would say, have you revised for the test tomorrow you're like what hang on you know um so suddenly yeah suddenly all this sort of stuff i've been saying you know i can't really see spain do much i'm like maybe they're actually just boring but really good yeah yeah yeah it's interesting isn't it again so we've paid so much attention to this world cup and there's been a lot so much of it that it's hard to actually remember the sort of the nuance i say nuance i mean the results which is the most important bit of it but yeah it's quite interesting isn't it like having this perspective and then actually looking back and being like oh yeah they did smash up Saudi Arabia they did sort of like you know Pedro Porras scoring against Austria all those sorts of things so yeah Spain Belgium well yeah because I mean I was sort of thinking we didn't really touch on Belgium much given the given the sort of the overarching narrative of you know United States and just quickly just to sort of brush on them like it's obviously like a lot has been made of their golden generation not actually achieving anything.

58:56I think in some ways I liken their golden generation to England's one. I see a lot of very good players who just didn't really operate very well together on an international basis. Hazard, De Bruyne, Gerard Lambert. You know, it's all those sort of little conversations I'm sure they have in Belgium. Are they a dark horse at all? Have they grown into the tournament? because i could swear from the early group stage games i was like there's nothing here there's nothing really that good about them but you know they turned senegal over who are very like as they showed when they play france in the group stages very very tidy side um they've obviously completely decimated the united states the host nation on home soil are they quietly going about it like You know, I look at somebody like Arku, for example, a figure of fun, somebody that, you know, people make fun of a lot.

59:57People forget he's a talented, talented player. You see his finish the other night. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:00:02Phil:He's got one of the most insane goal-scoring records in international football. It's mad, it's mad. Yeah, but looking at them, they drew with Egypt, they drew with Iran. So that's, again, that sets your perspective, right? Then they smashed up New Zealand 5-1. Then they came from behind with like, Was it like four minutes to go to take Senegal to extra time and then beat them? And then they smashed up the United States again, probably because of that sort of shot in the arm. So, yeah, interesting. Again, maybe there is something about this golden generation thing where it's all good and well having the players.

1:00:32Phil:I do think there's an element of this that you need players who play together a bit more regularly for that to really come to fruition. You know, you look at Spain, it had the strong Barcelona kind of element to it. Whereas England, it was all disparate, wasn't it really? Same with Belgium. they were all kind of dotted all over the place so yeah Spain Belgium coming up next I do expect Spain to beat them with all that said Brazil Norway I mean Haaland is doing a Maradona in 86 isn't he he's dragging a fairly ragtag I mean that's not really fair on Odegaard, Nusa and some of the other players but a less fancied side to greater heights um i would say i definitely have a newfound appreciation really for it sounds crazy to say for a guy that's dominated the premier league for the past couple of years but for actually probably the level he's at um i'd always i guess in my head i'd always been like he's good but i don't think he's quite mbappe level I think he actually probably is I think he really is That second goal against Brazil was just quite unique wasn't it and it's weird isn't it I think if you use a comparison with Man City with Norway that you know teams will push on to Norway and give Haaland space which is the one thing you don't give him whereas Man City they always seem to be like you know up against a low block so yeah that was a really really interesting game wasn't it that one Brazil get mortified for your babes you know They bring Neymar scoring that penalty and then chirping at the goalkeeper, unbecoming.

1:02:19Phil:So many Brazilian TVs got smashed up going by the reaction on social media. All of them have been... Speaking of the reaction on social media, have you seen, and this is genuine discourse coming out of Brazil. So I think, I wouldn't say Pentecostal Christianity has been growing in Brazil and they're blaming that. They're blaming the so-called fall of the Catholic Church in Brazil as to why their team has not been doing very well. Look, this is not something I'm qualified to deep dive into at all. But it's just, it's so, it's funny. It is funny to see from the outside teams and nations try and debate as to why they're, you know.

1:03:10in england we're saying are these lot too interested in bling bling and whatever other sort of like dog whistle racist shit we like to throw our national team a lot of the time um not like homophobic if you remember what it was like with david beckham and everything like that um but it's funny and do you know what i tell you another thing that it's given me a an appreciation for is because I think we're often very like, you know, you see whenever England go out of a tournament, it's always Kane is useless. Why aren't we starting Ollie Watkins or Bellingham after we didn't win the Euros? There were calls for Bellingham not to be taken to the World Cup.

1:03:52Craig Hope, nobody should forget the receipts. The Daily Mail's Craig Hope, who went chest out and said Bellingham should be left at home. It will be better for the England team if he is. we have this weird habit of attacking our best players and i think we say there's this national psyche in england don't we where we don't like people putting their head above the parapet however going down some twitter rabbit holes and twitter like now with it auto translating um the majority of the feeds and stuff you can join in and view a lot more of these conversations that happen regionally and a lot of there's so many brazilian players talking about the fact that neymar Brazil 2-0 down, Neymar's last ever game, they have a penalty, is shit-talking the Norwegian goalkeeper, is flaunting it, is doing all this.

1:04:43And they were just saying like, I saw so many of them saying like, I am so glad we don't have to suffer him anymore. He is the face of a failed generation. He is so emblematic of all of the hubris and the failures like Brazilian football has had for the last decade at least. so glad he is gone. It's such a fitting way for him to bow out still with his sort of preening narcissism in one of the most embarrassing moments again in our sort of national team's history. Glad he's gone. Yeah, I just thought that was kind of interesting. It's kind of interesting.

1:05:20Phil:Yeah, that is interesting, yeah. You know, and I think Sonny was getting it from South Korean fans as well after they went out in very meek fashion at this World Cup. He penned that big open letter. So I guess in some ways it's one of those things that say that like, it's not to absolve us of our national kind of ugliness, but it's also to show you that I think people generally all act in this way, don't we? We like to tear our stars down. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're all sort of the same, aren't we, really? Apart from the Catholics and the Pentecostal Christians in Brazil. It sounds like there's a huge divide there.

1:05:54Phil:I don't know what that's about. But yeah, like it's that thing, isn't it? You live long enough as a hero and then you end up kind of the villain or whatever the, I'm paraphrasing, but yeah. Which again, takes us back to Ronaldo, mate. I mean, like just a step down ages ago. But yeah, that is really interesting. But it was quite weird, I thought, that when Haaland scored their second, there was no sort of Brazilian like collapses on the floor. Like, oh my God, I can't believe we've been knocked out because one nil, you know, you're still in it as much as you're up against it. They were all just a bit like, not surprised.

1:06:31Phil:It wasn't like, oh my God, I can't believe it. We're out. It was just all like, oh, that did happen then. Weird, very weird. Not something we, well, we should be used to seeing it because they've probably been bad for as long as they've been good in our lifetime. Maybe not, but still. But this, as I've sort of said on here before, same with Manchester United and Brazil. Can you imagine telling like a 15-year-old version of yourself, mate, that Brazil would be this average one day. It would have been unbelievable, wouldn't it? I wouldn't have heard it. I wouldn't have heard it because it wasn't just our era.

1:07:09We were treated to all that grainy footage of them from the 50s, 60s, 70s.

1:07:15Phil:Yeah, yeah. Always dominating the sport, you know? Zico and all that lot before, you know? It's just, it's mad. It's mad to see them. but we we watched that kevin bridges like bit that that i play a like one hour documentary which is really good where he was going around brazil and talking to brazilians because scotland were going to play brazil right so it was a bit of a fact finding mission in that sense it was really interesting he was talking to that guy who seemed to think that the reason brazil aren't doing so well is because all of like the red dirt pitches have been dug up or left yeah gentrified that they've all been kind of replaced with AstroTurf, which you think, well, sounds better, but it's removed something from the Brazilian way of playing.

1:07:58Phil:That's what he's thought anyway. So interesting point. It's probably, again, it's probably the Pentecostal Christians that dug all those red sand up. Is Pep Guardiola a Pentecostal Christian? Because I think he's broken football. He's broken Brazil. That's my biggest theory. My biggest theory is that Pep Guardiola has broken football on a certain level, but then is also the reason why we're seeing teams like Cabo Verde going toe-to-toe with teams that they have no right to. I think people have gotten much more sophisticated in their tactical approach to football. And it has been shown by somebody like Pep that if you actually pay attention to tactics firmly, and you don't just rely on vibes, you can do great things.

1:08:50Phil:And I think that it, let's just for balance here. And again, I don't really want to say this, given what we were saying at the top of the show here, top of the show, listen to me. It's like being on TalkSport.

1:09:03It is kind of the fact that the reason some of these,

1:09:07Phil:let's say smaller nations, like let's use Cabo Verde as an example, have got good is potentially because of what FIFA have done by kind of diverting, you know, charging loads for tickets, It's making this a really expensive thing, the World Cup. But then, I mean, they probably haven't filtered enough of the money out, let's say, but it is a sort of a byproduct of the way how the World Cup has gone for the last few times, that it's so expensive, there's so much money in it, that that money has filtered down to these smaller nations to be able to kind of become more sophisticated in how their national teams are set up.

1:09:44Phil:So interesting, interesting point.

1:09:50Switzerland-Columbia, nil-nil, one of the...

1:09:54Phil:Yeah. Awful. I don't want to give it too much time. What's the point? No, I actually, this is one that I actually stopped watching the first time I think I've ever done that to my mind, but I've just been like, I'm going to watch House of the Dragon instead and watch that. I thought this is probably going to go to a penalty, so I turned it back on. It was like 118 minutes. I was like, and nothing had seemed to have happened. So Switzerland are a weird team, aren't they? Can't tell you really anything about them because talking about slipping under the radar, I kind of just forget that they exist, let alone being at this stage of the tournament.

1:10:23Phil:But they must be doing something right. So, yeah, I mean, Colombia, we kind of thought, oh, maybe Colombia are a little bit of an outside chance now. You know, the only South American team left in it, or, you know, compared to outside of Argentina, and they face each other potentially. So, oh, that could be quite a good one, but just couldn't get past the... couldn't get past Switzerland, who have been fair to middling. They smashed up Bosnia and Herzegovina 4-1 in their second game, which made them qualify, beat Canada, got through Algeria, drew with Colombia. Doing something right. Maybe they're the team to stop Argentina.

1:11:02Phil:We'll get onto them in a second. Well, Argentina, I mean, probably I think it's fair to say one of the most unbelievable comebacks in recent World Cup history. 2-0 down, seemingly down and out. Maybe should have been 3-0 down against Egypt's side who were, just until the very end, remarkable. Absolutely bossed the occasion. Were resolute in defence. Were incisive with their counter-attacks. Were more than good for their 2-0 lead. More than good for their 2-0 lead. Regardless of the goal that got chalked off, they could have been 3-4 up. They were, again, I use the word remarkable.

1:11:50Argentina just, they looked knackered. They didn't really look like they had much of a cohesive plan last night. It kind of feels like the Scaloni magic is wearing off a little bit, but still they managed to dig deep. As the sort of chant that's going around at the fans is saying at the moment, They're doing it for Diego and they're doing it for Leo. There's just something there about them, isn't there? It's just a sort of national mania that they have when it comes to these sort of occasions where, you know, they've got Lionel Messi in their team at the end of the day. Like that goes a long way before we start talking about magical realism and stuff.

1:12:37But it was quite remarkable. like you say, there's a part of me that does think, you know, we're already looking at England versus Argentina semifinal. Both teams have very difficult quarterfinals.

1:12:57But I don't know.

1:12:58Phil:I don't know. What do you make of it all, mate? Not to sort of revise history, but like four years ago, I looked at their squads and I was like, obviously got messy. So that speaks for itself. But I was like, some of these players, they're still here they haven't been able to kind of replace them and loads of those players are still here now and they look very sort of constant they do get away with a lot as well I think they've I think there was a graphic that said they go they get 22 fouls per yellow card where England gets seven fouls per yellow card don't know what you can make of that don't know if we want to get into conspiracy theories and if there's any use doing that but yeah they but for the majority of that game they look completely clueless we said when we were watching it when it started like five six minutes in I was like Argentina look ragged here all over the place and you're right Egypt did so well and should have kind of been out of sight really I mean you know what Chris Romero scored there first didn't he uh and that sort of came a bit out of nowhere you're like oh as soon as that went in I was like we know what's probably gonna happen this is probably at least gonna go to extra time um but then shortly after that Egypt had a chance to break and I think it It was Marmouche.

1:14:11Phil:Had an easy ball to play into the left-hand side and he completely fluffed it. And I think it was Paredes who then intercepted it and kind of broke the other way. And I just thought that was such a huge moment. And they kind of, I don't know if they, I mean, let's go back to England. Do you remember when England played Italy and it seemed like, oh my God, we're going to win the Euros. And we were a goal up. And then just something happened where I think their minds went to, you know, they took their mind off it and they were like, oh, we're in the, we've won it, we've done it. And then Italy came back.

1:14:45Phil:The same sort of thing happened. Egypt kind of let, I wouldn't say they let Argentina back into it, but they had to make a few changes. They brought on the crazily named Trezeguet, who I've had an issue with as soon as I saw him appear in English football. The fact that there's this guy called Trezeguet of all players. He came on and it all just seemed to fall apart. I don't think it's his fault, to be fair, obviously. But yeah, something happened. I felt like they stopped playing the game, Egypt, and they started to think that they'd kind of done it and it got to them. They're like, oh my God, we're the team that have beaten Messi's Argentina.

1:15:19Phil:This is the greatest. All that sort of stuff seemed to start going through their head, which we've seen, you know, at club football, potentially that this happens. And then they just kind of let Argentina back into it. I mean, a fantastic goal from Messi for the second, wasn't it? Really. and really kind of weird defending, a great header from Enzo Fernandes as well for the third, but kind of weird defending where, you know, as soon as that second goal certainly went in Egypt, we're just like, we've blown it. And they just didn't seem like they had any tools to be able to get back into the game.

1:15:50Phil:A real shame because I thought, wow, this is really something. And you do, you know, again, sorry to bring it back to England, but as an England fan, you think this is huge for us. It started, you know, Brazil losing to Norway is one thing because you're like, well, Norway are clearly better than Brazil. So we're playing the better team out of the two. So it's not really the same thing, but Egypt getting a shock win against Argentina, you're like, this is opening up for us pretty nicely. And then they come back. I'm not particularly scared about Argentina, I have to say, because I think that they, yes, they came back and it was great.

1:16:23Phil:They were still 2-0, if not, could have been more down to Egypt. So there's definitely issues there. Whether FIFA are going to want them to get to the final and do some mad things. You know, I'm concerned that England have a few players on yellow cards that one more means that they would miss the semifinals if they get there. So, yeah, but a fantastic game at the end of the day. You know, all that kind of narrative aside, I thought it was really just quite wonderful to watch. And as much as you're like, oh, you want Egypt to win, it's also just fantastic to see Messi still in the competition, right?

1:16:57Yeah, I thought I'd save England to last just because, you know, it's talk about spoke about Gavin you have a day on here and you know I don't want it to become too England centric or whatever but you know can't can't get away without I'm talking about them look you know I think that we sort of said before there's so many parallels between supporting Tottenham and supporting England one of those is that I guess that perhaps from the outside somewhat naive optimism that this year could be our year but there is definitely a growing sense of that wouldn't you say i there's been some so my both michael owen and mickey delaney and i'm sure there's others have given more sober takes after the mexico game basically saying england struggled against a very average side in mexico which i think completely ignores the context of the occasion but is there anything in that are we getting too excited i don't think so i think

1:18:02Phil:and all right i think you can take the point that you know brad fidel said it really succinctly and made loads of mexican fans mad that he was like mexico aren't good they're good because they play at this you know stadium on the moon where no one can breathe um and therefore we weren't playing mexico man for man we were playing the occasion which sometimes you have to do especially when it's in um you know a stadium like that with the altitude and the and the atmosphere and to come through it in the way that we did 10 men by the way that's the huge point to come through it the way we did i don't think you analyze that from a tactical perspective i don't think it's to do with that i think it's you were faced with a challenge and then that challenge got immeasurably harder and you kept getting pegged back and you saw it out that's the thing that again we football has become too sort of like analyzed in a way certainly from a tactical perspective and man for man and stats and all that but to to overlook that as an absolutely massive step that england have taken both in terms of this tournament and just their overall kind of sense of being is wrong, I think.

1:19:18Phil:It was a shoot. It's rightly seen as one of the biggest kind of results England have ever managed to achieve in World Cup history, if not forever. I mean, I just look at the team and there's just, I don't know, it's just that growing, there's the growing vibes there, which I know is such a lame way of looking at it, but you do look at Tuchel's team selection. It does seem pragmatic. I do think they're sort of up against it. There's been a number of injuries, especially in the fullback positions and stuff. But I just start to look at, you know, you saw some of like Jude Bellingham against Mexico, weaving in and out several different players, his tackles, his turns.

1:20:07I've seen somebody, I can't remember, one of the journalists described his performance performance as Zidane-esque and he was getting dragged for it but it genuinely was it genuinely

1:20:18Phil:was that's exactly the sort of things Zidane would do people already did the flicks and stuff like that and he was like a magician and all that but you know people are going to turn your nose up that comparison is bad faith I think because it was it was that it was that talismanic side of things where you are picking the ball up you are you know he's got a very similar sort of body shape to him as well and he wears adidas so there's you know there's there's clear clear comparators there for him to be able to kind of weave through and do things under immense pressure yeah that's not a bad comparison at all i mean you know you're only comparing it on a certain elements of it fine but yeah to kind of turn your nose up at that and say that's a nonsense is coming from people who probably never watched zidane play 23 years old mate 23 years old you know the way he speaks the way he carries himself he's just he's just got such a level I love him.

1:21:09I love him as a player. I think he's just wonderful. He's one of those players that like, he's sort of a throwback in a way to the type of players that play in a way that I remember watching. Rivaldo, Zidane, you know, he's got that touch about him. He's definitely, I mean, he's England captain in waiting, isn't he?

1:21:31Phil:Definitely. And I think you made a really interesting point about him that I hadn't really considered. and the same kind of goes for Kane, but I think he's still sort of tarred with the Tottenham brush, let's say, that because he plays for Real Madrid, Bellingham, everyone doesn't have any kind of like tribal opinion of him. I mean, they do in Spain, obviously, but in England, it's just okay to like him and support him because he doesn't play for Liverpool, he doesn't play for Arsenal, he doesn't play for Man City, who have got strong rivals who will always find a way to try and denigrate someone like that.

1:22:01Phil:So yeah, he's absolutely fantastic. And I think it really sort of helps that we've got both him and Kane as our talismans, right? And, you know, we've got good players elsewhere in the team. There's still some sort of question marks, yeah, you know, as much as I don't want to necessarily overanalyze the Mexico game itself. But there has been sort of some issues where things haven't seemed to work so well that we're still trying to work out. But I feel like maybe Norway is probably a good team for us to play. it feels like again talking about the spain and france matchup this feels like it's a good matchup for us in terms of our plus points and our negative points as well well allow me this because you know we've we've managed to hold off for the most part um for the majority of this podcast allow me this little spurs indulgence sort of spurs indulgence isn't there just such a massive part of you that wants to see england win this as well for kane to see him to see him actually immortalized in a fashion that is befitting of a player of his talent in those photos holding the trophy england captain that's that's worth everything isn't it more than the premier league goal scoring record more than winning two, three Premier Leagues as part of Manchester City's team or whatever, to be the guy that scored the amount of goals that he did for Spurs, to go to Bayern Munich, to score the second highest, second only to Messi goals in a calendar year, to be the guy that finally breaks the hoodoo, score the amount of goals he has done and decisive goals as well in this World Cup.

1:23:47I just, I want it so much for him, man. As much as I want it for any of us, as much as I want it for the country. I just want to see Kane do it. I'm just going to see it.

1:23:58Phil:Absolutely. And there definitely is a Spurs element to it. You can't deny it because let's say if he was an Arsenal player and had the same career and went to Bayern Munich, I wouldn't have anywhere close to the same amount of feeling towards him as I do because he's so recognisable to us. We've seen him come through the ranks at Spurs and do what he's done and not get the credence he deserved, frankly. you know, had people saying, questioned him throughout his whole career and still pretty much up until this World Cup, really. I'm not saying it's Spurs' fault, but still. Yeah, I mean, wouldn't it just be wonderful for him?

1:24:37Phil:You know, Spurs aside, just for him, because that's what he wanted to do, right? He always wanted to kind of do something big for England. And yeah, it's probably his last chance as well, maybe. He'll probably play next time, but yeah. he'll play well the Euros is in England isn't it next time so he'll probably do that but maybe they'll have him on the bench in the next World Cup who knows but in terms of like him being one of the major figures of the squad yeah this is this is probably his last shot and you know come on Harry just bring it home lad bring it home um Phil anything I've left out Anything you want to say?

1:25:18Phil:No, I think that was quite comprehensive, Jack. Just to say that this is the first day where there's no World Cup games and that's always absolutely heartbreaking. It's like when you realise you've got a week left of your summer holidays and you haven't done anything with it. I looked at Footmob and the first thing that comes up is Cara Almaty versus Suljewska. And I was like, I don't remember them qualifying for the World Cup. And they just have that bit of a like, oh no. And yeah, it's one game a day pretty much now, isn't it? until it gets cruelly snatched away from us. We've got to remember what life was like before World Cup and partners who don't care about football will rejoice that they have their other halves back.

1:25:55Phil:No, I'm naming no one in particular. So, mate, much love. And to you, come on, England. Findalo.

1:26:15Thank you.