#377 | Holding Out For A Hero

35:43King Dedede. Okay.

35:49Dustin, give me a verb. Throbbing.

35:57Okay. Chris, give me an adjective. Um,

36:06silly. That's funny. Uh, Dustin, give me a video game character. Give me two video game characters. They don't have to be related because they're going to be on separate lines. Sora.

36:22And Master Chief. Okay. They go well, so well together. Chris, give me another video game character first uh ocelot okay and then also give me a verb

36:46jumped or jump or jumping or whatever the way it would be whatever the tense yeah okay dustin give me an adjective and a snack food um

37:02adjective hairy snack food so a snack specifically not just a food right yeah it says it says technically plural snack foods so i can pluralize it though um Doritos. I mean, this is a gamer theme. Yeah. OK. And then, Chris, I want you to give me a video game name and a party activity. A video game name? Yes, like a title of a video game and a party activity. They don't have to be related. Katamari Damacy. Mm hmm. And a party activity, you said? Yep. Um.

37:48Karaoke. Okay.

37:55Dustin, give me a number. 28.

38:03Chris, give me an item that is found in a game, like an in-game item.

38:10Oh, man. um

38:17now let's see i'll go uh

38:23put z y m e it's it's the poison in uh it's like a it's like a illicit drug in deus ex okay z y me yeah is it an acronym or is it called zyme it's like it's called zyme okay that's what it this and then dustin give me a noun a noun

38:46pizza okay we're almost there not really there's a lot more i should have said boner okay we haven't had any explicit ones those are either really good or they fall flat it's like huge risk i will say that it said here dirty noun dirty noun yeah okay i told you i wouldn't qualify I told you that remember I didn't want we just had the conversation I just I want to I wanted to have boner I want the boner that can be arranged all right it's one of the says pick a defining Duke member let's do cog

39:30oh and the other defining Duke member so I'll put okay so that's perfect

39:40Dustin give me a series from 2000 to 2010 in video games 2000 to 2010 I already said Halo I already said I mean Kingdom Hearts I don't know if that's lame because we already said Sora but it's in the sphere of our show right now we'll do Kingdom Hearts Chris give me an Xbox executive

40:09Is he still Matt Booty Yeah he's there Somehow he continues to work there Dustin give me a verb

40:25A verb Painful

40:39chris give me a piece of gaming merch what does that mean i wonder huh a piece of gaming merch that's all it says um you know what just uh one of those mario backpacks where it's like mario's body i don't know that's the only thing that i can think of when i think of like or that isn't mundane i guess so mario back yeah mario by the way i was like am i crazy painful as an adjective right yeah i asked you for a verb before doesn't a word used to describe inaction i was just making sure because i was thought there was something fucky about that but yeah i was like i didn't that's why i stopped for a minute because i'm like painful but maybe that was like maybe i'm just crazy a word used um a verb in action yeah i already said pulsing right or did i say throbbing earlier so you want to say pulsing pulsing yeah throbbing and pulsing those are my pulse those are my two passions chris give me an well here we'll use painful as the adjective that we need here okay chris give me another adjective um um

41:57volatile is that an adjective yeah it is uh chris give me i'm sorry dustin give me a piece of playstation hardware a piece of playstation hardware uh the playstation portable or psb okay chris give me a game studio

42:22alive or dead or it doesn't matter Lionhead and then Dustin give me an adjective and a year adjective and a year

42:40adjective

42:46green yeah green's an adjective and a year 1993 1993 my birthday year okay let's see okay i need a famous boss fight from each of you chris a famous boss fight um

43:15godskin duo nice

43:21okay we'll go with sephiroth

43:27okay i'll pick one here as well i haven't actually really read it so i don't i went and bolded all the things and put them in parentheses so that i try to spoil it as little as possible for myself but we'll see um i'll put wart okay and then um chris give me a number and an alcoholic drink a number any number but any number and an alcoholic drink uh seven uh

44:06teen mike's hard lemonade 17 you said yeah and mike's hard lemonade okay i was being an asshole saying seven verse okay um and then this is the last one dustin bad dating app scenario i have one for this but i didn't want to use it bad dating app scenario

44:29um came early there you go love that all right i don't know that's a dating app i mean that's kind of beyond the dating app but let's just roll with it yeah it works okay all right here's what it says who knows if this turns out or not yeah on this week's episode of sacred symbols a beautiful playstation podcast colin kicks things off with a fiery declaration he insists that king ddd can throb way better than sora and anyone who disagrees is clearly silly chris immediately fires back, arguing that Master Chief could easily jump better than Ocelot. And the conversation quickly spirals in the chaos.

45:15So here I can see the verb. It says verb absurd or suggestive. So maybe that's why I was trying to tell us that. But again, I've never seen that. That's a new thing. OK, so that's where we are. Dustin joins in, explaining that the graphics on the latest showcase looked like hairy Doritos left in a dorm microwave after a round of karaoke katamari damasi. Whether paying$28 for extra zyme as visionary or just financial boner?

45:50It falls apart immediately. Halfway through, Colin roasts the defining Duke boys. He claims cog has a shrine made entirely of kingdom hearts while chris jokes that maddie could convince matt booty to pulse in a mario backpack and then good best for xbox

46:12dustin says it all reminds him of painful anime convention floors that's pretty good that's good later they mock the volatile state of the psp with colin shouting that line and hasn't made anything truly green since 1993. Adjective spicy, it said. So again, suggestive. I didn't use that. The episode closes with a listener mailbag. Which boss fight would you least want to tackle after 17 Mike's Hard Lemonades and coming early? Godskin duo Sephiroth or Ward. Pretty good. I feel like it's you drank the Mike's Hard 17, the 17 Mike's Hard. Then the date happened. You came early. because you were drunk which usually it's quite you know alcohol affects you in a different way and then you go home and you're sad and you're like oh the boss fight is next is the order of operations at the end there oh there it is 17 17 mike's hard lemonades is a heinous not even for the alcohol content but for just sugar well that is outrageous mike's lemonade is that is the first alcoholic drink i i would i drank like you know yeah i'm not like trying something or having a sip of something but like my friends would brother would go get us stuff and i would get mike's hard lemonade and i got so sick so many like several times that fucking so disgusting i have a very clear chris you'll know this more than dustin although he might be able to relate to italian delis and just delis generally in new york and this might be true elsewhere but they they'd have the rainbow cookie you know i'm talking about oh yeah big rainbow cookie yeah with the rainbow sprinkles on it do you know what i'm talking about dustin no idea it's like i think people will understand chris knows what i'm talking about and my dad used to go get like italian bread at the at the bakery and then get me a cookie and so i ate these cookies and then i went to my friend cory's house to drink in high school michael hard lemonade and i threw all of the rainbow cookies up and so it was like it was all just like i'll never forget that as long as i live that was just like this multicolored gross it was bad yeah yeah that's not the best thing to have that's not the best thing to have gurgling you know yeah it was but shout out to those cookies they're they are good i love i love italian bakeries dude yeah just new york bakeries generally just the best that's not a thing here it's not like not a thing you know you can't even remotely here right like you could go on on long island in new york city and stuff like go to a bakery and obviously people at bakeries get cakes and all that but i'm saying Like you'd go to a bakery where they like bake bread and all these things every day.

48:46And people would just go do this. And I'm like, I've never lived anywhere else where that was a thing where there was like a million of these things just sitting around and people would go to them. I don't know. I don't know what that's all about. Yeah. It's a very specific, like it's weird to me that delis aren't more, I guess the deli that I understand that it's weird to me that that's not more ubiquitous than it is because I feel like it's just like an easy win for most places. Like, I don't understand what, I don't know what the holdup is. you know like i just feel like it's a really sound idea it's a good thing like for a community to have over here it's this like it's usually an armenian delis which is usually like it's half deli half like car dealership or something or just it's a very strange place it's a front it's a north korean front i mean well i don't know in sopranos i guess the deli they go to isn't necessarily a front but certainly in a racket i guess you know i'm talking about dustin where they like hang out outside can't think of the name of it i don't know is it satrionis or something like that or am i making that up um anyway do you not know what you know like when they're sitting outside and there's that awesome scene where like paulie has is like sunning himself with like the yeah yeah it's the is that the butcher shop yeah oh it's a butcher shop yeah not a deli i can't remember what the name guys guys guys guys spoilers yeah right right right right you're right you're right you're right when you're right you're right but my yeah i i think what ended up happening is like supermarkets started doing their own bakery style stuff where there's like here's some fresh bread and here's some all and i think that that kind of probably cut into it because my dad used to go to get the like the italian bread there and it was just like you can't get italian bread like that anywhere else it's like fresh out of the fucking oven so good oh my god all right a few more here still born to be wild wrote into us on patreon just like you can says hello fellas does colin not pay dustin enough dustin has been making new videos on his youtube channel lately and now he is doing his own personal weekly streams as well should we be worried about the financial stability of our sweet baby boy or is colin being too stingy i demand dustin dustin ask for a raise on his allowance unacceptable that colin is making his child to work two jobs to make ends meet doesn't well uh it is true that i'm making videos on my youtube channel pretty consistently uh am i being paid and i guess that's the question i'm being paid very well no one needs to worry about my uh financial security to be to take things to a serious level a little bit um obviously i'm making videos because i want to i think it's fun i enjoy this process it's like it feels like something i enjoyed doing when i was a lot younger and getting back into that has been really fun um i do have financial incentive behind it mostly because uh with everything that happened to me holly is no longer working um so that is a significant portion of our income that is now gone uh and in addition to our insurance is like crazy expensive because basically she's getting like a special PTSD therapy.

51:58So my insurance has gone up a lot. With that said, I'm still financially just fine. I have a lot of savings thanks to this audience with the GoFundMe. And I really appreciate that.

52:13So yeah, I am. I am making a YouTube channel to try to get some more money and because I enjoy doing it, but I'm in no financial trouble. I'm doing just fine and I guess that's about it so subscribe I like how it's my fault in this like like I did something to someone it's always my fault you know what I mean yeah can't get away from it can't escape the spotlight you know what I mean Chris it's a tragic existence you know even when it's your fault people blame you right and and then i don't want to blame right who wants to blame right when it's really my fault definitely don't blame me so really what it's still coming down to is never blame me for anything there you go and that'll be really nice ideal that would be really super awesome if you did that for me um absolute cinema i think that's been really important to me to institute in our company going way back.

53:18And obviously we've hired collaborators that inherently do their own things. Chris is one of them, um, where the primary thing that they do is off of our company. And I think that that's great. So that's Chris, that's Maddie, that's cog. But then we have people that are, and obviously Jean, then we have people like Brad, who's basically full time. Um, he does two different shows for us and a bunch of other stuff. We have, uh, Micah, we have obviously Dustin and me. It's been really important to me to encourage everyone to do their own thing and that I don't want to control everything that they do.

53:55This was a major sticking point when I left IGN many years ago. We famously, as people that stay there, let us know like we basically ruined it for everyone because we did so much shit on the side and got away with it. And then that thing became so big that we just left and did that thing and they they tamped that shit down hard after that um and then in more recent years they started kind of loosening it up again you know destin you see destin like area out there he doesn't work there anymore but he started doing his own thing and all that stuff but i feel like that created a wedge the easiest way like what what ign should have done is said like yeah go do your own stuff and do as much for us as you can and we'll have some sort of relationship but instead they said do one or the other and so they they just lost right that the talent completely i don't want to do that if people leave it's because i want them to leave because they have other things but not because i put them in a corner um so i think it's important and vital and i'm glad to see dustin doing these other things i think there's another thing too that i've learned over the years because we're not really a new company anymore and i've been doing this for a really long time now is that we are what we are um and what i mean by that is the we're a podcast network with lots of disparate voices but in the past when we've done content that I wasn't on that wasn't a podcast, it never really did very well.

55:12And I'm not saying that to pat myself on the back. What I'm saying is, is that we are what we are. That company comes here for podcasts. And then maybe I could court some sort of audience if I did an episode of side quest or whatever. But so there's no even financial reason for me to want to take a squeeze of other people's juices yeah like that yeah do you like that noise no not even a little bit yeah yeah it was really upsetting so i'm really high quality high quality audio on that thank you thank you so i'm glad to see it i know brad's doing his own thing too obviously like i said maddie and collie are doing their have long been doing their own things and will continue to so i I think that's great.

55:51How are you finding the process? Really fun. Overall, it's I'm working with Jimmy on my thumbnails and titles, which has been really helpful. Just figuring out like what what works and what doesn't work. You know, like I did a video, the video I recently did on Hell is Us was like the main kind of video I want to make. And it did all right. You know, you kind of figure like the videos that do really well are the ones that I not that I don't want to make them. I still enjoy it, but like as I'm building up subscribers, I kind of have to do a few like hot news ish type things. Like I did a video about Metal Gear Solid and Unreal 5 and that one like shot up many times my other videos.

56:33So you kind of got to mix in like some crowd appeal stuff along with the stuff you want to do. And it's interesting to just like the I'm monetized now. and so it's like you'll work two or three hours on a video which is like not a ton of time and like you make 20 bucks yeah i mean gaming cpms dude and it's like oh man um oh man but i'm not like dude i'm i the money from youtube specifically i wasn't never expecting it to be anything crazy but uh but it's been really fun it's been it's been fun to just like getting back into i I edit every day for last stand, but it's not creative editing at all.

57:15It's like plugging things into our default templates and stuff like that. And so being able to flex the creative side of editing is fun. It's like I said, it's something I haven't done for a very, very long time. So it feels good to do it. And you should do what feels good. In my opinion, I have so many ideas for content. and the only thing that stops you from doing it is my job at this point right like i have these ideas for things like i one thing i've really wanted i've wanted to do this for years it's not really a unique idea but i want to do like these deep dive multi-hour even videos on game stories but for games that really no one cares about so like not not even in a negative way but games that wouldn't garner like an elden ring or even something like an alan waker a control where people are doing these i've never seen them but i just assume they're out there and i guarantee you they are like people are doing like you know like going through every piece but like what about mine's eye yeah right exactly i mean that was exactly one of the games i was thinking about where i'm like what if you did something like this for like these random trivial ass games and i think that would be funny and but actually like cool to be like this is what this game that no one gives a fuck about it is is really about and i was thinking actually about it we'll talk about it later when i'm playing chronos and i'm like it's sold a couple hundred thousand copies it's doing fine but even something like that where like will someone dedicate their fucking a month to deep diving and understanding every aspect of this game i think that could be really cool but um there's just no time to do this kind of stuff with all the other things and and playing games is a major obligation too like i try to play games a lot try to spend a lot of time I'm playing.

59:04So that cuts into a lot of time because otherwise, why the fuck would you give a shit what I say? Right. Yeah. I don't know why you care about what I have to say anyway. That to me, that would be losing my whole all my leverage. It's like this guy doesn't even play games. It's like, oh, man. See how long I remember? I won't say who it was, but I remember someone at IGN saying like, you could do nothing here for six months before anyone even noticed. And I wonder, I wonder how long I can go without playing games before anyone said anything. like just stopped you had you have too many people on your friends lists to get away with that i think yeah i'd have to hide by trophies and also every every episode it would be just week after week of like yeah i'm not playing anything yeah something came up well dude yeah remember a few months ago someone someone wrote in about me because it said i was last online five months ago it's because i was just appearing offline just because people message me or whatever so i was just hiding online and it's like they got if they got their eye on me they have their eye definitely on colin oh i mean they do dude my psn profiles page um which is you know psn profiles.com slash long island viper is gets probably a few thousand views a week just that page it's there's like a there's exo phase and ps trophies out oregon all these other places where you can go look plus the playstation it has here i'll put it in the chat 715 ,000 views on this.

1:00:35So yeah, people are definitely stalking me. No doubt about it. But keep me honest. I have 36 ,000 views. That's way higher than most people. I go and update yours every once in a while and look, see what you've been playing. Out of curiosity. Mine updates. I have a lifetime platinum membership of PSM profiles that was given to me by them so my shit just automatically updates what'd you say i think i do too oh well i have a lifetime premium oh premium that's what it is premium yeah oh okay cool so then it should be called platinum yeah a membership for psm profiles yeah you're right you're right maybe it's a little confusing but everyone understands the language there right i love dude psm profiles is one of the great websites if you're into what i'm into mine has 26 000 so that's still a lot yeah that is weird yeah but yeah 715 000 for me leave me alone i love seeing i love seeing all the f's all the games i started i just put down immediately because i just didn't care that's the thing i've been that was the whole idea behind behind trophy advisor which was the show i still want to do on streaming at some point which is trying to get that overall completion number up right mindset 45.5 which is which is high but um there's still rookie numbers same time all right a couple more things to get into here actually really one more thing and then it's sort of a question about process and then we'll get into the news and quite a few things that we want to talk about this week richard deans wrote in though i wanted to read this one because i have advice for him he says i've been put in a situation part two hello again my clergy of the triangle circle square and cross.

1:02:24A few months ago, I wrote in about a long-term friend who was getting married abroad. He casually mentioned that the wedding might not be happening after I had already booked my flight and accommodation. Dustin probably won't remember this. It was the week he was in LA and Brad asked him, are you gay, son? Are you gay for me? Anyway, the saga, sorry, is that a HR thing that we should be? I mean, it's not an HR. This person doesn't work for us. Right, but I chose to read it you chose to read it and you encouraged it you put you you you know you put this out there are you gay son so it's fine it's fine for me i'm not i'm not snowflake i can handle being called a queer yeah every once in a while i've been called gay my whole life please my own siblings have been calling me gay my whole life anyway and i don't mean that as an insult like my sister i think really thinks that i'm like when i was a kid that i was gay um because i told you guys I'm not a masculine person, you know, so that everyone still jokes about that.

1:03:18We're like, Colin's going to come out soon. And I'm like, I'm 40. I think I'm, I think I'm good at this point, you know? Yeah. But I'll let you guys know if anything changes. I could teach their own. Of course, bisexuals. I feel like they're kind of being a little greedy though. You know, you got to zone everything. You got to, you got to clue in on what you're really, I feel like you're being too aggressive. You're being too greedy. anyway are you gay for me anyway this dude i love that video anyway the saga continues and once again i need your advice the wedding was eventually canceled i lost about 500 pounds not the end of the world but still not ideal i mean that's a lot of money dude more recently i became a driving instructor and generously offered the same friend 10 hours of free lessons i'm not sure how it works on your side of the pond but over here it's notoriously hard to find the book an instructor Lessons typically cost between 35 and 50 pounds an hour.

1:04:14So I thought I was doing him a favor, helping him get started before he moved on to someone before he moved on to someone else. By the way, there are a bunch of private driving instruction. I've never used it. A big thing in the United States is driver's ed, which is through school. And in New York, Chris, you might remember in New York, you can get your junior's license. Yeah, take driver's ed. And that allows you to at 16 years old drive to work and and school. sure yeah yeah i remember driving to work in school treated that license is the real license they're like you can only drive to work into school it's like all right cool we're going to the mall that's yeah what'd you say in in pa we you can get your license at 16 but you have a curfew oh oh that's that too you can't drive after dark yeah but that's it yeah no one gave a fuck yeah yeah nobody nobody gave that was literally around the only time i ever drove like as a like like a driver of a car was like in that time.

1:05:12All right. So where was I? So lessons typically cost between$35 and$50 a pound, as I said. So I thought I was doing him a favor, et cetera, et cetera. Despite my best efforts, he keeps canceling or rescheduling at the last minute. This is time I could be spending with paying students and I'm starting to feel like I'm being taken advantage of again. Would it be wrong or disingenuous of me to retract the offer? Because frankly, I'm beginning to feel like he's taking the piss. As we say here in England, does it look like i have a that it'll look like i have written on my forehead because that's exactly how i'm starting to feel anyway i'll go listen to reruns of constellation and continue to wonder why you lot refuse to love it the way we did shut up about constellation okay are we still talking about constellation we're still talking we're still talking about constellation we're still talking about this it's crazy nobody watched it nobody cared

1:06:07by the way i don't know if you want do you want to blurt out the the c word yeah i saw him typing i saw him typing it's the that's the word word that will get us demonetized for the whole video it starts with c just is what it is we can't control it ends with aunt youtube is answering me

1:06:29that's good shit all right richard i wanted to use your inquiry because i have something really important to tell you a person who doesn't respect your time and isn't schedule oriented is not worth you wasting your efforts and energies on it's an incredible do you know about this thing called time blindness you ever read about this or see anything about this where it's like i've heard yeah i've heard about it it feels fucking made up i mean yes it feels there's like i don't know if you do you are you you're no way colin is are you you guys aren't familiar with peacemaker right i know what what the show is because tim meadows tim meadows plays a character in the new season i haven't seen it yet but like there's a a thing about his character where he has bird blindness or he just i don't know if that's an eagle or a pigeon or whatever i don't know i'm just gonna trust people what they say and it's just like that sounds so stupid but like there's real things like that that i swear people believe are real like what do you mean you don't know what time it is or like how long things take what are you saying i've watched videos where like that it's like i need like an accommodation because i can't be on time basically and i'm like hey go suck a dick is time a construct yes it's based on the rotation of the planet and is chronicled and monitored by nuclear clocks that are accurate within a trillionth of a second so everyone operates on this it's supposed it's like a calendar we're supposed to be able to share times and dates and things with each other it's a yes it is a construct of human of human civilization it is it's true um nothing annoys me more than people that disrespect your time it's just crazy rude and self-centered to do that to people yeah um you might not have a friend here i guess is what i'm saying on your hands richard like i wouldn't be able to tolerate this i'm not saying you can't be 10 minutes late to a fucking dinner date or you can't you know forget a thing every once in a while but we all know the kind of person that i'm talking about like just no regard for any of that kind of stuff and i just it bothers the shit out of me so it's so rude like that's the the last thing you can the least you can do is just like do what you say you're going to do when you're going to do it that's the like come on man yeah bare bare minimum right bare minimum type stuff i've definitely known people who are just like hours late regularly and i'm like ah you gotta be you gotta be like a you have to be so impressive in every other way for me to tolerate something like that you have to be like a savant like brilliant you gotta be like freddie mercury or something like okay freddie mercury is gonna be late all right that's freddie mercury i guess but if you're just like jim brother be prompt be prompt be prompt if you're jim right um it's crazy like have we discussed this in the past this goes all this goes entirely into like uh people that set their clocks wrong on purpose

1:09:52i don't think we've talked about it on the show actually now i think about it i don't think we've ever talked about this what i mean yeah so like my mom did this back in the day i don't know if she does this anymore but i remember when i was a kid it was like the clock on the in the car was like seven minutes fast and i'm like why like i i don't understand you know it's wrong that's the issue it only works if you don't know that it's wrong like someone else in your life needs to change it without you knowing but now i mean everyone cares around a phone with the time there's always multiple sources to check the time so it doesn't really work it's just that was always the strangers even as a little kid i'm like this doesn't make any sense like it would actually bother me yeah and that was during the era where i'm like i don't know what time it is i don't have a phone in my pocket and all i know is that this clock is wrong for some reason based it's wrong by a certain amount of minutes off the real clock and everyone knows Is it fucking weird shit?

1:10:54Yeah, because the premise is that you would see it, and you'd be like, let's say it's like, oh, it's 5 p.m., and there was something you had to do. Oh, it's seven minutes. It's seven minutes behind. So like, oh, my God, I got to kick into gear because it's 5 o 'clock. But you know it's 5.07. And if it was 4.53, wouldn't that just be the same? Wouldn't that just... I've never understood that. I hate it. Like the premise of it just doesn't make sense. I hate it. I hate it. Yeah. If you do that out there, you're crazy. You hear me?

1:11:34I love that question. You hear me? That's another white person thing. You know how like those lists go around. That's like, you hear me? Y 'all come back now. You hear? All right. This is more of an inquiry about the protocol of grammar, but I wanted to read it because I thought it was interesting, and I wonder if a lot of people think about this. R. McQuaid19 wrote in and said, hey, CDC, long-time listener, first-time caller. This one is for Colin, as it sits squarely at the intersection of video games and of all things grammar. Riveting, I know. Could you settle once and for all how to handle verb agreement when speaking about companies?

1:12:15Would you say Sony is publishing a new game or Sony are publishing a new game. The reason I ask is the perceived emergent use of the latter, which sounds off to my American English ears and dare I say a little pretentious, like the way gaming influencers love to overuse the word IP. It's my personal role credits. Yeah, I hear that and I use that term too. We've got to find a better way to talk. I can understand the UK English inclination for this plural pluralization, but it also seems to be starting to bleed its way into American games journalism. Thanks for the excellent content and keep on keeping on.

1:12:44I'll press circle halfway through my mountain zip line and listen. Okay. it's Sony is publishing

1:12:57because Sony are would indicate that Sony was a plural, right? I mean, that's the way I read it. Yeah, I think the indication is that Sony is a plural because it's a company made up of individuals, but like I would consider it more like Sony is a single company, right? Exactly. Sony is a Sony is the entity. if it was Sony's game studios are, but Sony is Santa Monica studio is naughty dog in Santa Monica are. Right. Yeah. I mean, that's the way I, that's the way I would, I would read it. Sony are publishing a new game is bad English. Yeah. No, I don't just replace Sony with like some other singular noun.

1:13:42Chris are publishing a new game.

1:13:47chris and sony are both singular nouns so i've seen this too it bothers the fuck out of me but you see it less and less because there's just less and less writing yeah um and there's like rules of grammar that everyone like there are still i'm a writer yes but like there's a lot of and i know how to write because i know how to read and i you just know how things are supposed to sound but often there are like really intricate detailed rules about grammar and stuff i don't get at all so i'm not judging anyone at all like when you see these like really mega serious breakdowns of us of the structure of a sentence stuff like i don't know like i just know i just know what sounds right and what sounds wrong it's just that simple um so i understand some people getting these things wrong but yeah that's one of those things that that we have so yeah sony is a singular entity and it sony is publishing a new game all right speaking of sony we have a few sony related news items to get through and then some other other games news to get through as well.

1:14:46We obviously don't have to get into the politics of any of this, and we're not going to, but it would be completely disingenuous not to mention that a big piece of news this week has to do with a little bit of fallout and potential problems around Sony products based on situations surrounding the assassination last week. So I just wanted to throw these things out there. We don't really have to linger on them, but again, to add them to the record, we shouldn't ignore them because we don't want to talk about it. Um, two things related to this. The first is that someone seems to have been fired from sucker punch for what I would consider celebratory, but whatever, um, tweets or actually blue sky posts, which makes it even worse, you know, because no one saw it, right?

1:15:35Like you, like you didn't, you didn't have a platform to say any of your stuff, but this person, um, and I don't even know if they I'm here on push squares. Let me see here. Drew Harrison. I'm a push square story. She wrote just in kind of a celebrate. I don't want to say celebration, whatever it is of joking about the shooting and people got really upset about it. People weren't really upset on blue sky, but obviously it got screenshotted and then shared on other platforms. Surprisingly, sucker punch seems to have responded by firing this employee. And I think they actually released a statement acknowledging it.

1:16:13I thought it was a little weird when they first did it because they didn't acknowledge it. And I'm like, but if you're not going to acknowledge it, then what was the purpose of even doing it? Because no one really knows what you've done. So you might as well just stood by your person in that case. But apparently they released a statement to Kotaku confirming that that person no longer works at Sucker Punch Productions. The reason I wanted to bring this up is not only because of the newsworthiness of that, I guess, and the intersection of that with reality, but that it seems to be riling a lot of people up and they claim that they're not going to buy the game anymore i don't know if that's true people canceling pre-orders and all that kind of stuff i did look at the most recent trailer for the game actually i guess it would be two trailers ago now because they didn't release another they're kind of gearing up the game comes out soon so they're releasing more content but a lot of down votes and a lot of really negative comments but we say this all the time where i don't know how this translates yeah the real world call of duty gets destroyed every year on youtube and then it sells 20 million copies so i don't know do you guys think that this will affect uh chris do you think that this will affect this whole situation um people are also not crazy about the voice or the the motion capture and voice actress for the who apparently is like a very left-wing person but yeah i don't really give a shit about people's individual politics to be perfectly honest with so that doesn't do anything for me.

1:17:33Do you think this rates as something that Sony should be concerned about or you think this is kind of a blip for them? I wonder what they are seeing. I mean, they did take action. So there's something to it, I guess. Sure. Yeah, I mean, I don't know really. These games are really big. And so I just generally don't really have faith in people to put their money where their mouth is. I have a strong suspicion that a lot of the people who are saying they're not going to buy this are people who probably weren't anyway also. Because to be fair, we've talked about it on the show where like the hype around Gosev Yotei even before this seemed kind of muted in comparison to like other first party games like it doesn't really feel like a first party game is as imminent as it is really I don't know if you guys get that feeling too but like it just absolutely I absolutely it doesn't it doesn't feel like it doesn't feel like people really care but I feel like I wonder if that's just me being disconnected from yeah it's see look I think I think I think Gosev Yotei going to do well i think uh it's going to sell very very many copies i think there's a possibility that it doesn't do as well as the original in fact i probably think i wouldn't be surprised if that was the case necessarily purely because that is kind of the way things go with sequels i think the ghost of joshima was a little bit more exciting when it was new um it also had the benefit or detriment depending on how you want to really frame it of uh you know coming out so soon after the last of us debacle when that was going on um and so it had an opportunity to pleasantly surprise people so that was good for it um get some good word of mouth going but i just i just kind of feel like i don't know i i feel like this game's going to do soft softer i should say not unsuccessful but softer with or without this happening i'm sure materially like they've lost some customers but i don't know if it's to the degree that it would meaningfully like jeopardize a studio or anything you know yeah oh yeah certainly not dustin what do you think i my theory is that they probably did see a significant not only just like emails and backlash or whatever but i'm guessing they also materially saw a lot of cancellations And my only basis from this, and maybe it's anecdotal, is just from our experience, not to I don't want to bring all that back up, but from what happened with us, which I would say is way less.

1:20:06We saw a definitely material thing happening that was more it was actions and not just words with something like this, which is way spread way farther. and is a much i mean our podcast is nowhere near the size of a giant triple a game release i'm assuming that yeah uh they probably got a significant amount of backlash and potentially pre-orders that were canceled so it would make sense that they would want to act as soon as possible uh just so you know these things i can see a situation where if they didn't do anything that it would just continue to snowball where they're like they're not saying anything they're they're standing by this guy Sony as a whole and it could even start to affect other games too so um yeah I mean it's uh not good all around but I don't know I just uh the their their pre-orders for this I'm sure are uh slightly lower as Chris was saying maybe a little softer um so I don't know we'll have to see they clearly are very confident though because the reviewers have had it for what weeks yeah i mean i mean that's the thing is i'm sure it'll be great yeah i'm sure it will be too um and i'm gonna buy it i mean this didn't affect anything for me because it's really it's one person and expressing their opinion that's probably fairly commonly held there and certainly in parts of the games industry so you have to kind of accept if you want to interact with art, if you want to interact with anything, really, that like there are going to be people that are making your wonder bread that, you know, probably hate you or something, you know, like you can't track through the economy, everyone's opinions like it's it's just.

1:21:59But here's the thing in the corporate world. For us, for instance, we're not we're a corporation, I guess, technically, or a company or whatever, but we're not in the corporate world. we don't have shareholders and a board of directors and like a shit ton of people on on top of us or whatever i think that you just kind of have to be more careful it's so easy the thing that i i think i've taken away from this is that it's it's just fairly easy to just kind of if you have something really inflammatory and incendiary to say like just don't even say it it's just easy to not say anything all this person had to do is not say something none of this would have happened um um you say it privately feel however you want i don't i'm not interested in policing people's stuff but i say this only because i feel like it this kind of stuff really reverberates like it's not really fair to the rest of the team and you don't want to like reduce it to the to the fairness aspect of it but it's kind of unfortunate this is the game is gold like it's in people's hands people are enjoying it it's going to get reviewed soon it's coming out soon it's like just shut the fuck up that's like the way i would feel if i was there like we're almost there like we've poured five years and it's then shut up yeah and that to me so if I were working there I know people working there but I didn't talk to anyone any of them about this I'm not going to do that broach like an internal thing it's their business but I wonder what they think because I'd be pretty pissed there's probably bonuses and stuff relying also on how the game performs and so it's real it's like a monetary thing it's easy to like shoot off at the mouth but But that said, I'm skeptical of the overall effect.

1:23:37I'm sure that they saw a declination of numbers. I'm sure that it's not going to sell quite as well as it was going to. But I wonder if that's literally. And I'm not saying it's nothing, but 10 ,000 copies. Something like that. It's not something you want to see. But I also agree with you, Dustin, that like they had to do something. And that's why I was wondering where like they did it and the person confirmed and then that they were fired and then i think days went by before sony said anything and i'm like that's weird because you fired the person but you're not even going to say anything about it like isn't the point of doing it to distance yourself otherwise why not just ignore it right so it was like the worst possible decision to make but once they clarified that i was like all right it makes a little more sense now um but it doesn't affect anything for me i don't think it affects anything for most people but this is classic speak with your wallet and you can really hurt sucker punch and the unfortunate reality to chris and you were saying this earlier was like the game's going to do worse than ghost of tsushima did probably commercially and then people are going to look at it and say like because of this yeah so you fed them it was a very ill ill conceived thing god the thing that i think is just like if if you were deeply like no i can't support this game because of what this person said and you canceled your pre-order Sony acted and did what you wanted so why wouldn't you then show your support of what they did by then pre-ordering like re-pre-ordering again or buying it when it comes out like to be like no I'm gonna I want this game I'm not gonna buy it because of this whole situation it's like well to if you're voting if you voted with your wallet against it and then they did what you wanted then you should vote with your wallet by then re-preorder you know what i mean so i'm like you colin where it's like yeah i don't i don't like what that person said but it's like i you have to i interact with people constantly uh it's not just political there's like a million different things that people have done or said or whatever that's like i don't really like that but what are you gonna do and everyone has their line.

1:25:49So totally understand if this was a line drawn for you. I'll be very curious. It hasn't leaked, so I don't. But Sony's Sony is much more locked down, it seems like, than a lot of other places. I just know that from my own experience. But I wonder if they sent a letter around or anything like internally being like, you guys got everyone used to shut up like it. Just be careful about what you're or at least not shut up, but like be careful about what you're saying, because this is the thing about Sony. And we've brought this up in the past is that they're quite a progressive company. especially by Japanese standards.

1:26:19But, but I think a lot of it comes from their very American centric control on in PlayStation specifically. We talk about this all the time. Like they're very progressive in hiring pro LGBTQ, uh, race stuff, environmental stuff. They're like huge into it's, they, they dedicate quite a bit of time to all that stuff. So it's not even probably a conflict of politics as much as it's a conflict of like, you're just making us look fucking stupid. Um, and you gotta go. and if that kind of and i think that very thing makes some people uncomfortable and it's like no dude you have to understand like you're dealing with the entertainment field it's gonna be fairly progressive doesn't mean that there's not conservatives doing all these things or independence and whatever but it's just like you gotta understand what you're getting yourself into just like presumably the food that you eat is likely grown by a conservative person in the middle of whatever sure so like just it is what it is that's capitalism that's that's the way it goes.

1:27:18So people, this is, this is frankly working exactly the way it should, I guess is what I'm saying. But I was wondering if they were going to do anything about it. And I would love to be a fly on the wall of like knowing what, how that all went. But the other thing I wanted to bring up though, unfortunately also related to this, and then we can move on. And this, I just wanted to bring up because I was confused about this reporting. I still am a little confused about it. I want to see what they're talking about, but also because I couldn't help but think about the nightmare scenario with Sony PR behind the scenes over this.

1:27:50So the bullets that were, I guess, left behind or found at the scene of the crime in Utah of the assassination had various engravings on them. And one of them apparently is a Helldivers 2 button code upright down, down, down, which is the 500k bomb. I think that's the biggest weapon in the game, right? Yeah, I think I'm pretty sure. At least when I played it, they might have added some crazy shit. When I saw this, I was like, two things. Before I even thought about Sony, I'm like, that's not what it is. And I think I said this on a previous show, or maybe I was saying it to someone. I don't remember where it was.

1:28:31I interpreted it as the anti-fascist three arrow pointing down thing. which is like a logo of theirs. I was like, oh, that's what that is. But no, they're like, no, it is specifically up right down, down, down. And I was like, oh, man. And when and when that like so we haven't I want to I wonder if they'll ever release pictures of these things so we can see them for ourselves. But it's like I could just imagine what like the email threads and the fucking frantic phone calls that were going on. Nothing's come of it. It's no one. And by the way i should be clear it's not their fault obviously but just the relation and proximity to this is very interesting um i don't know if you guys have anything you want to add to that but i was like oh um this dude played helldivers uh and it and it affected him enough that he literally engraved it into a bullet and i can only imagine where they're just like oh no it is unfortunate it's like uh was it that guy at the church who shouted like subscribe to pewdiepie or whatever before oh right right right it's a very similar thing with that i think where it's just like i don't think it's really i don't think it really i don't know i almost wonder like do like at a if you're at a company like this and you just kind of intrinsically understand that like listen we we're doing we're doing really really well anyway um nobody who is in our audience cares because in our people who are in our audience understand what the game is um i almost wonder what this matters to you in a post like mid-2000s world where it these things clearly don't manifest in any real meaningful way i wonder if there was even a conversation you know where it's just like i mean yeah you made a reference to a very very popular game.

1:30:27Do you think you ever played with them? Maybe. I think about that sometimes. Just with random like the people like I like not with this specifically but like I wonder who I've drawn into these random games in the past like with me. Right. And actually it's very similar to Gene and I were talking that our first E3 was both E3 2004 like 15 years before we or more before we even knew each other and i'm like that's so interesting what if we were like walked past each other saw each other looked at each other kind of weird so i was thinking about that i'm like this guy was just floating around and one of the games that we love and talk about all the time was a big inspiration for him i guess or something that really stuck with him so i it is my hope that they had conversations behind the scenes about this just in like what do we do if anything happens but you don't want to bring attention to it or anything like that but and again it's not their fault i'm just saying i think that's an interesting piece of unfortunate lore about about this he was a big gamer in many ways uh it seems like so anyway dustin yeah i think it's worth clarifying you said big inspiration for him and i know you don't mean this but clearly hell divers was not an inspiration for him to yeah that's the wrong do what he did assassinate someone that's the wrong one um you're right so it was a big it was thing in his or is the thing in his life yeah you're right that's right that's the wrong word i'm sorry um i think first for sony pr and arrowhead the thing that i would be concerned about is just that there's already um i mean quite frankly retarded uh statements going around about video games affecting the shooter um and how you know more like what what not what column but like oh well he was radicalized in in hell divers too and it's like yeah the game where you're literally shooting bugs and robots just just see fucking heraldo rivera yeah dude i mean that's what i'm saying with these these retarded things we were saying it's like dude it's it's halo absolutely brain dead and so if if some of that starts to come up more from people that are just completely ignorant i could see hell divers becoming a spotlight it's like well he this is the he engraved this on a bullet and it's like dude if you take just a few seconds a minute or two to learn about hell divers it's like no you could there's other games which you can make a much greater argument grand theft auto or something i don't agree but i i can understand where the threads are being drawn right yeah it's like no hell divers has guns therefore it's like no yeah and in hell divers you technically i mean you technically play as the fascist technically like isn't that the whole conceited like so like everything i love that her although everything where he's like halo did this like yeah that this 22 year old was radicalized by halo very clearly i think that's very near and dear and relevant to a lot of 22 year old people and also like radical like i was just thinking about when i saw that and i saw your response to it too i was like what does it mean to be radicalized by halo like it's a religious radicalization i guess or something like it's not it's the game's the game's obviously deeply violent but it doesn't even come off as violent sci-fi violence doesn't come off as violent like it comes off as something else so i know i totally i i kind of feel that way about doom too like it's like doom is just so cartoonish and over the top and you're just fighting these like almost like they're they're like drawings more than they are creatures or whatever and it's just like it doesn't even register as violence even if it is like more gratuitous than anything you would see in like a grand theft auto um there's actually something more violent about like shooting a guy in grand theft auto and there's no blood and he slumps over than in doom where you like rip it a demons out and throw it into his esophagus and watch him explode you know just like there's something there but i was i was radicalized by the high prophet of truth in halo i appreciate that you said hi before it the high problem that's that's a that's a leap ball knowledge right there but i yeah i don't know i just um i just feel like we're so past this and every time it comes back it always like it it truly is bewildering i think rfk was talking about it too i'm just like what are we doing back here again people are they're gonna look for a scapegoat it's not only i know it's just tiring no i i totally agree with you i mean it's it sucks and it's unfair it when you it's as you said if you just think about it it it's kind of nonsensical to blame this sort of thing on anything other than the individual because we could all be corrupted by the same stuff if grand theft auto like think about how crazy it is that i think grand theft auto 5 and i don't hold me to this but might have been might have been noted in a few crimes or something like is like an inspiration or whatever.

1:35:27It's like, dude, like half of the 150 million people have played it. It would actually be crazy that more people were inspired by it if it was really the game. But obviously, it's some other permutation of environmental factors and psychological factors and upbringing and values and all these kinds of things. It's just strange. You know, it's a it's it's a big cocktail. it's like uh it's like the catcher in the rye the guy who um what is it uh shot uh john lennon i think was it was a catcher in the rye oh yeah yeah i'll yeah i was gonna say sirhan sirhan but that's not right yeah and so it's just like i don't know man if if millions of people are engaging with this thing and it's yeah and it's not resulting like if and this is a tired we're preaching to the choir here i guess obviously but like if video games were this deep reason for like violence we would see way way way more of it and also it wouldn't be it wouldn't be just landlocked to the united states you know japan south like south korea and japan are like very very video game heavy places that don't have these types of problems now they have violence of course but it's like it's it's different very clearly so like i just think the scapegoat of video games is just so obviously false and i'm just like what do we it's not even related to the like because i can see people relating it to guns obviously because it's a gun situation but like even if they're even if the argument was like oh well it's not guns it's mental health it's like okay well those two things i think are at least relevant germane to the conversation it's not like a video game which is like completely separate in every way dumb yeah it's i just don't like people outsourcing responsibility for things it's sure yeah it's too easy and games are going to be very tempting i think for people to kind of go after and have been very tempting to go after because of the interactivity of it and i understand that but i would and i'm sure there's probably studies on this you have to understand that i don't really give a shit either because I just know inherently what's true about games.

1:37:35I think we all kind of do if you're really into them and you don't feel like you have to explain anything to anyone and also just reason. Even if you weren't in the games, you wouldn't want to externalize the blame for these sorts of things. But I would assume that games are a way for people to get shit out of them too. That you could argue that games might be a lever to let steam out to not do stupid shit to do stupid shit digitally um i don't know if you can quantify that but i think that argument would be just as easy to make and so people have been blaming movies and tv forever music obviously none of it washes with me because it's just it's too mass market we would all be crazy yes period we would we would all be crazy so well we are we are all crazy right we we would all be violent right violent right and and you know psychopathic and insane right um yeah so who knows man i i i can see that coming up too but i just think i'm not worried about it and i'm actually gonna read a letter that we were gonna put in later in the show but it's it's germane in this we might as well just use it now this was from the six questions comments concerns thoughts and ideas later in the show but Kenan Lotter wrote in and said, hey, CDC, my topic is brief and unfortunately a political one.

1:39:03Once again, a myriad of online platforms have come under fire by government officials after the recent tragic events. James Comer is calling for platforms like Discord, Steam, Twitch, and Reddit to join an oversight committee hearing on October 8th. This sees Steam under the sights of government officials yet again in just a span of a few months. The hearing is to examine the radicalization of these platforms' users. Comer wants these platforms to present how these platforms will take action and control these situations. While the immediate reaction I'm seeing online is that this is a scapegoat tactic and nothing will happen for me, I'm not so sure.

1:39:31With recent worldwide crackdowns on age verification, can we see these platforms radically change how users interact with these platforms? Could this potentially spread to console platforms like PlayStation and Xbox? What do we think these platforms could regulate further to keep the government from poking around even more? Thanks for all you do. I'll hang up and listen.

1:39:51I could be incredibly naive about this. I acknowledge that. But I just don't really worry about it. Because I think at the end of the day, these platforms have proliferated in part because they are generally open to different people with different conversations. and sometimes things cross the line and all that kind of stuff and certainly people are radicalized in all these different places too but it discounts all the normalcy and all the normal shit that goes on on these platforms which is a the normal course of business for these things like the normal course of business on steam is totally reasonable people buying games not saying anything to anyone and if they do they go look for help or they say something nice in a comment somewhere or something that.

1:40:41If you give the lowest common denominator too much power, it could undo these different platforms. And it's up to ultimately the ESA and lobbyists to make sure that this is understood in Congress. This is why the organization exists. This is going to be a challenging time for it. but I think that there's a good fight to be had that this is not the fault of the platforms and that maybe there could be more done about like verifying your ID, for instance, or your age. I'm not crazy about that, but private companies can do that and that's up to them. And that probably would ameliorate a lot of the problems.

1:41:27But this, of course, takes away the ancient internet ideal of anonymous use. And it's a tough situation. But I don't want us to get too nervous about it because I think that the games industry, especially in the United States, has been left alone for a long time. We've talked a lot about the creation of the ESRB, which is a self-regulation. It's not a government regulation. Some places in the world actually have government agencies that do this. the ESRB is a private organization, privately funded to keep the government out. And if they have to continue to make adjustments to keep the government away from the industry, that's probably what they'll do.

1:42:13So I don't know if you guys have anything you want to add to that or not, but I understand that this is a thing that people are becoming increasingly scared of. I think we need to see how it plays out, but I just always feel like generally nothing happens. And so perhaps there's not too much to worry about here. I'll see if I'm right or wrong as the months go on. Dustin, seems like you have something. Yeah, I think it Discord and Steam, Twitch, Reddit, whatever, these are all just current forms of communication. At one point, you could radicalize people through sending newsletters. Do we need to put newsletters under investigations back then?

1:42:53You know what I mean? If, let's say, the worst case scenario where these platforms do become heavily regulated, then they'll there will just be new forms of communication that pop up you know um it just seems dumb like we don't like you can people can be radicalized or whatever you want to say through any form through speech through texting through whatever communication is just something i mean obviously communications become so much more broad in our internet era so i understand that it's like oh well this is where these things are happening but it's like dude there will always be another and honestly probably where the real shit happens is not on discord steam twitch and reddit i'm sure that there is some deep web shit going on that maybe is where the actual um stuff is happening so it just seems fruitless to me to go after something like this period yeah i am i have a hard time squaring if if the supreme court says that games are protected speech which does, then the speech around the protected speech has to itself be in some way protected, not from market forces, not from investigation.

1:44:08If someone does something illegal on the platform, but just from the general existence of them. I don't like some of these platforms at all. I think they suck, but I'd want them to exist. I don't want them to disappear. That's not up to me. So we'll see what happens. There's a lot of concern out there right now because this does throw things in the air, but the games industry has proven pretty robust in the United States, comparable to a lot of other places. I mean, there are games that are just straight up banned in Australia by the government, just straight up banned, like can't buy them, illegal to have them.

1:44:45Games that are like normal games, by the way, not like, you know, pornographic games or games that you couldn't even buy on Steam. it's very very interesting that we've managed to kind of not have that problem here but it's because we have a great tradition of parental advisory stickers instead of um overarching top-down control of the art we'll see how it all shakes out thank you for writing in all right this is another piece of big news here it comes from the website mpfirst which is on a role of we've been we've been using these guys reporting quite a bit over the last year I'll say or whatever they seem to have some good sources at various outlets one of them is Sony I won't read the entire story here which is listed report Marvel's Wolverine aims for a 2026 release of Venom project still in development but I will say that they have a source in which they claim that Wolverine will be coming out next year on PlayStation 5 it's not a huge surprise I guess I really think they need to shit or get off the pot with that game and move on um we might see it by the next episode of the show.

1:45:53I wouldn't be surprised if this was a big part of what they're going to show at state of play. I have no inside information on that. I'm not saying that. It just seems like that would be a good anchor game to bring that back to the spotlight and maybe even put a date on it, show us some gameplay, all of that. I wouldn't be surprised. The other thing here is that they say that there is a Venom interstitial still in development. So it could be that it comes Wolverine, Venom, Spider-Man 3 in that order. that would be pretty interesting so a lot of marvel stuff coming out of insomniac plus they're working on another ratchet game which i believe the leak said was what 27 or 28 so that's like far away because there's a small team working on it i think they're north carolina team so those are the two things that have come out of this mp first article i won't again i won't read it verbatim um dustin let's go to you what are your thoughts here the re-emergence of wolverine potential so not a huge surprise there and the venom game which we were kind of wondering about because insomniac had canceled its plans for a trilogy of dlc expansions for spider-man 2 people were wondering if this venom game was kind of wrapped up in that as well i don't want to even say anymore because there's just a huge indication that this game was going to exist for a different reason if you've played spider-man 2 let's say right so it does seem like it exists what are your thoughts venom is the most interesting uh new direction i guess for spider-man after i mean spider-man and spider-man 2 and of course miles morales are all fantastic games uh they all play i mean uh miles has some different abilities and stuff like that but they all generally play about the same so venom i think would be a pretty interesting shake-up and i'm totally fine with them reusing a lot of the work they did for spider-man 2 incorporating the the world and the city into a venom game uh i think it sounds awesome i would dude my dream they won't do this but i would love the venom game to be like i guess they're already doing this with wolverine which we assume is going to be rated m based on that the last trailer but dude the the venom game being rated m also would be kind of sick probably not the right marketing decision for a spider-man game but i don't know a lot about venom most of my venom knowledge comes from spider-man 3 uh where it makes toby mcguire into a cranky dancing man on the streets of new york and i always thought it was kind of cool so and i liked but i liked uh you know spider-man 2's venom as well that's not a spoiler right yeah they that was i guess oh they show that in the trailer and so that's what i was saying earlier like he's playable so right it seems like the game kind of already exists in somewhere at least that's the the backbone of it todd mcfarlane made venom right that was like how he became famous before he on his own yeah because he did spawn i think too right right he did spawn later like he left marvel but that was like his big thing was like in the late 80s he created venom i think that sounds correct and you can kind of see the connection between venom and spawn in terms of a design philosophy but not for sure i mean that that that segment in spider-man 2 feels kind of like uh a backdoor pilot you know where you're just like this is what a venom game could feel like guys and i remember playing it being like this is this is pretty cool i want to do more of this and the fact that you couldn't was like a little a little bit of a bummer even just even just as an option for free roam just to play that way would be really cool uh but it seems like they were just holding that off for similar reasons that they were holding the black suit off like i remember i remember the first the first game came out and all the the cosmetics were announced and you know they had all the different suits for spider-man everybody was like where's the black suit it's one of the most it's like literally the the second or third most iconic spider-man suit and it's just like they're clearly guys it's clearly the sequel is going to be the black suit if it wasn't it would be in the game already like it's so conspicuously obvious there's suits in spider-man ps4 that like this made the cut before the black suit that's insane so clearly they're working on it i think obviously the venom thing is is a similar um situation i just wonder how much it's changed i mean obviously tony todd passed away right so like there's that i wonder if they had to rewrite or if or if they had to recast or if the the projects changed scope at all i wonder what order we'll see these in or how it will play into because like it would have to be not chronological in some sense i don't know it's it's i don't know the idea of a venom games seems interesting and seems exciting it reminds me of like hulk's ultimate destruction back in the day or something like just some like sandbox where you're just running around like a big angry thing i'm down i'm down for it yeah i wonder what the timing of these games will be probably 26 27 and then 28 for Spider-Man maybe would be a PS6 game Spider-Man 3 you would assume you wouldn't want to do it on PS6 only but they did do Spider-Man 2 on PS5 only can I just say it's crazy that like your main exposure to Venom is Spider-Man 3 though that's awesome yeah that is an amazing context to have that and Spider-Man 2 really is yeah the game Spider-Man 2 it's getting a little confusing here with these spider men but it's funny when spider-man 3 came out what year was that 2007 it was may 3rd 2007 may 3rd 2007 i was in i was in seventh grade then i i was just finishing my seventh grade year i remember thinking that it was like a little hokey but not like terrible i remember i think i've told this on the show before i think that was the first movie i walked out of where i was like i guess things can disappoint me like because i walked out of that being like i don't know if i like that your entire worldview changed that day yeah i remember it very distinct i remember my clothes i don't remember like i don't remember anything as vividly as i remember walking disappointed out of spider-man 3 like genuinely how do you actually i like it a lot now because like i think i i watch it less as like i still think it's not a good spider-man movie but like as like a i watched it really high one time with like friends on thanksgiving and we were like let's let's watch this as if it's a soap opera and it's a fucking good soap opera i liked really good but there's been a lot of revision on how what's the girl that's like that lives in the apartment next to him oh that's greater man too and that she was portrayed as like the ugly girl and everyone now is like this this woman is perfect she is so much better than mary jane the fact that yeah i that's a weird i always thought she was just like a nice person that was just i don't think there was anything really that was a weird i don't know that's strange story three is fun though like there's some fights in that movie that are great but like you know it's when you're like 13 or whatever and you're expecting a follow-up to like one of the arguably like one of the best superhero movies ever that's kind of disappointing does he say spider-man one when it's the cage fight he's like where'd you get those clothes your boyfriend yeah what are you gay what are you gay what are you gay what are you a gay little wrestler gay boy like it's crazy one of my favorite things i don't know if you guys have said we'll move we'll move on but like one of my favorite things recently is like there's a scene it's spider-man 3 where he has the black suit he's all evil or whatever it's there's like a it's like a tweet or something it's like in spider-man 3 after he gets the black suit spider-man says shalom what does that mean i'm like that is kind of weird just bereft of context it's he's never said anything like that before but then he becomes evil he says shalom it's fucking wild well as we noted just last week i guess on the show i am or maybe it was two weeks ago i don't remember at this point but uh i would love to see insomniac move away from Marvel, but it is clear that that's probably not going to happen.

1:54:02And obviously, they'll do their own stuff on the side. Ratchet's still going, like we said. Maybe it would be nice to get something going, Resistance or something new in the ether. But you, and I was just pulling it up to make sure it's like, but you look at the Serkana data and that's where that's the context in which it came up and you see that like Spider-Man 2 is already the 18th highest grossing game in PlayStation history of any kind of game, not just their own games. ever released on PlayStation platforms, just being on one console and having been out for two years at this point. Right.

1:54:37So it's obvious why they want to stay in this lane. I just think that, and maybe I'm wrong. Maybe this just lasts forever because Spider-Man, Spider-Man two and miles Morales were all on the top 20. Even with the licensing fees, that's pretty good money. It explains a lot about why they wanted to kind of nail down the X-Men shit because I mean I think they probably saw that trajectory and they're like dude we'll do this forever I mean this is great so I know I don't you don't want in other words I want what I want but I guess you can't ignore the reality of how it's performing and what it's doing and those games are good like I'm gonna I don't really give a shit about Wolverine but I'll play it and it'll probably be pretty good again I don't know how you do that game without it being a gory mess I'm really interested to just I'm really curious about that game just because I want to see yeah what is this like what is this really going to be and uh because it's hard to envision to be perfectly honest venom we've already seen like you said in spider-man 2 and it's a lot easier to envision what that could be i mean i envision venom yes something like prototype yeah or yeah exactly i think um i have a hard time imagining how wolverine wouldn't be just gory which i hope it is although like part of me also imagines no disrespect to insomniac writers necessarily but like the tone of the tone of house the tone of spider-man one miles morales and two would be very jarring if like you know an old lady got her head cut in half yeah it'd be a very jarring yeah i mean totally totally you know for did do for miles morales being like oh my god peter that's scary i don't know it's a little you got to really nail it yeah they resistance is really the only time they ever did something kind of darker um and even that was not that was violent i mean there's like death in it the i don't even want to say i don't even want to say but for people that haven't played it but there's like major death in that in that game um but yeah it would read a little weird i think about i don't think spider-man doesn't kill right obviously like he's like batman no no he beats people uh to a point of mental retardation yeah yeah mental mental mental incapacitated uh being mentally incapacitated yeah uh well because i loved in the game how and i would try to do it to see if you can get funny animations of like knocking someone off a building and then the the web like swinging them in and tying them to the to the it's almost a fate worse than death when you think about it all of it the whole thing yeah all of it so you're like mentally you're pat you're physically paralyzed and mentally disabled and you're on the you're strapped to a brick wall 27 floors above midtown manhattan it's like yeah and then i think the what's funny about it to me is that like the web i think in lore like the reason why like the webs aren't littered throughout new york city all the time is because they disintegrate in like an hour so like now you're just like panicking up there like 50 stories up being like i yo someone better get me they're they're clearly traumatized after you've been beat up by a superhuman and then left stranded on the 70th floor of a new york's you know skyscraper good shit with the wind hitting you oh my god sounds great it's a fate worse than that yeah it sounds great yeah so we'll keep an eye out for these things i'm curious i'll play them but yeah and i thought spider-man 2 was really good but i know a lot of people seems like there's some revision on that game going on where people seem more down people seem down on everything but well i think it plays better but i think it's written more clumsily like for sure i think it's paced a little bit awkwardly but it's it's they're still like really really good games i think i just think the first one is so good because it is so focused like i think we that was one of the things we talked about in our spoiler cast was just like it's so like it doesn't overstay its welcome at all like it ends perfectly it's got like a nice crescendo it's spider-man 2 is a little messy but i like it so it reminds me spider-man reminds me a lot of like jedi fall fallen order the first one uh this respawn game where i was like it's it felt refreshing and then you fast forward a number of years and you're just in a different reality and doesn't feel so refreshing anymore because spider-man one was so i was like damn this is fucking good like this is a really great game it's it's crazy there's like and people like some of the old you guys like some of the never soft spider-man and all that but oh yeah this is like a great game and you didn't i didn't really expect it to be that good so i'll give them the benefit of the doubt we'll see what happens yeah i think we'll be seeing wolverine soon though and i don't mean coming out soon i mean i think we'll be seeing it re-emerge soon i think it's time all right this was interesting people are reporting on this it comes from a website called the game post but i put the video games chronicle story in here instead because it's just a lot curder and easier to read.

1:59:38It's all about Tencent and Sony's loss. So Sony obviously sued Tencent and related companies as we went into in detail. And I think I did a podcast with Hogue on it as well of the game Light of Motorum, which was announced and revealed and seems like a fairly blatant ripoff of Horizon in which Sony accuses Tencent of basically pitching a Horizon game to Sony multiple times, getting denied and then just making it anyway. And that was filed back in July. It says here on VGC, Tencent has now responded to Sony's lawsuit calling the claims, quote unquote, startling and accusing Sony of trying to monopolize a part of popular culture when in Tencent's view, Horizon wasn't particularly original in the first place.

2:00:22As reported by the Game Post, Tencent's response suggests that by trying to sue it for light of Motorhome, Sony is failing to acknowledge that other games feature similar concepts. It says, quote, Sony's complaint tellingly ignores these facts. Instead, it tries to transform ubiquitous genre ingredients into proprietary assets. By suing over an unreleased project that merely employs the same time-honored tropes embraced by scores of other games released both before and after Horizon, like Enslaved, The Legend of Zelda Breath of the Wild, Far Cry, Primal, Far Cry New Dawn, Outer Wilds, Biomutant, and many more, Sony seeks an impermissible monopoly on genre conventions, end quote.

2:00:57The company claims that Sony's lawsuit is, quote, not aimed at fighting off piracy, plagiarism, or any genuine threat to intellectual property, but is instead an improper attempt to fence off a well-trodden corner of popular culture and declare it Sony's exclusive domain, end quote. Tencent also alleges that Sony already knew Horizon wasn't an original idea when in development, citing a documentary in which Horizon Zero Dawn art director Jan Bart Van Beek reportedly said there were concerns during planning that the game was too similar to Bandai Namco's 2013 game, Enslaved Odyssey to the West.

2:01:27Tencent claims, quote, Sony shelved the project only to revive it later with full awareness that the idea was far from novel. When Horizon Zero Dawn finally launched in 2017, the gaming community noted its striking resemblance to Enslaved and other genre staples, end quote. Dustin, what are your thoughts? Yeah, this is copium. But I mean, that's what a lawyer is supposed to do when they're defending themselves. They got to, do what they can. Clearly, I understand like Breath of the Wild stuck out to me. There are you're in kind of like a I don't want to say post apocalyptic, but post calamity Hyrule and there are machine monsters in the world, but they don't look anything like Horizon Zero Dawn.

2:02:12The games also came out at this at the same time, right? Right. Yeah, they came out like a week or two apart. I mean, they were just yeah, so they were demonstrably in development. isolated from one another right so the idea of post-apocalyptic mechanical monsters i think it is fair to say it's not like the most original idea ever but what horizon was able to do was make it visually unique that clearly it's very easy to tell what a horizon um robot dinosaur whatever it looks like it's like oh i you immediately can can see that distinct art style and I think that's kind of the main point here and the bit the funniest thing to me is that they already kind of admitted that they were wrong when they immediately changed all the assets on their steam page you know and so now you're gonna be like oh well actually it's like I get it the lawyers gotta they gotta do what they gotta do to try to defend themselves yeah it's a decent defense I mean I mean it's not I don't I don't think it's a workable defense but I couldn't think of a better defense than saying like, yeah, they copied enslaved to the point where they weren't even going to pursue it.

2:03:25And I'm like, OK, it's interesting. I don't think I played enslaved. I don't think this game and enslaved are all that similar. I think you're kind of grasping at straws. But and yeah, he probably did say something like they were inspired by it. But they're very distinct games. They're yeah, you know, I'm not trying to discount Ninja Theory's work there. I mean, it's cool, but. yeah i think the main thing is that sure there's nothing new under the sun but clearly horizon had a very distinct visual style and that is the part that was clearly copied Yeah, I agree. I'll be very interested to see.

2:04:02I'm surprised that they I mean, I'm not a huge this. This is the I think Hogue would tell us like this is the first act of a ongoing dance between these entities and eventually they'll probably just settle it somehow. But so I was going to say I'm surprised they're even defending themselves because it's so crazy how obvious it is. But I guess you got to do what you got to do. Chris, you have anything you want to add about this Tencent hitting back here? I think you guys touched on everything that I would have said like i the similarities between enslaved and horizon like i see them but like ultimately like they're very distinct video games with very very different tones and like i get it but like that's it's not a workable defense and it was already mentioned that they changed the assets i think they even wasn't wasn't this whole thing pitched as a horizon game also like wasn't that a whole yeah that's the big thing is like multiple sony accuses them multiple times of basically trying to make it into a horizon game set in asia that's what they say so i just ultimately i don't think it's like you said it's it's it's the best defense that i could have thought of or it's it's a it's a decent one that warrants at least like um hmm a quick ponder yeah i would like to see what he said in that documentary i yeah i don't know that it even really matters because again enslaved is a post-apocalyptic game and it's got some similarities but not really i mean not when you break it down it's like not really dude i mean so it seems a little specious to me yeah but the thing that bothered me here though is that they mentioned these games and they're like games it's like games released both before and after horizon like enslaved the legend of zelda breath of the wild which came out at the same time far cry primal and far cry new dawn which came out both when this game was in development outer wilds and biomutant which both came out after it i know they said before and after but it's like you're kind of just naming games that in no way shape or form are influenced by horizon they can't be and that horizon couldn't have possibly been influenced by if they came out afterwards or were in development already so it's just like i don't but again now sony's got to get into the weeds and respond to this in a meaningful way it all hinges on the i mean it doesn't even hinge on it but it if you could just if if that comment uh by van beek is is nonsense or it doesn't really hold and it's like everything else is kind of unnecessary too.

2:06:21I don't think they're in a great position, but I would be curious because I think there seems to be a lot of latitude given to these companies in terms of what is copyable and what you're allowed to do and what's permissible in this regard. And I think it's awesome to be inspired by certain things and to even be blatantly making an ode to it, but you got to make it distinct in some material way off the bat. And the way you're presenting the game makes it just seem like the horizon. and it would be pretty damning if the games what's a good example like um bloodstained curse of the moon those games that are very much like castlevania 3 it's like it they're awesome odes to those games it would be more damning if they pitched them and made them to be castlevania games and then reskin them it's different so all right we'll see what happens these things plot on and it'll probably take years to resolve.

2:07:16I was curious what you guys thought about this. Gay Colin Moriarty wrote in and said, hey guys, why can't Randy Pitchford shut the fuck up? Don't get me wrong. I get it can be extremely difficult hearing criticism concerning how your game runs, but for the love of God, why won't anyone at 2K Gearbox or his friends or family sit him down to catch a Predator style and say shut the fuck up? I love you, Randy, but come on. He's like Kanye before Kim Kardashian. Love you guys. You're all the best and tell that chicken to keep its colon away from me. i don't know why to catch a predator would be the like why wouldn't it be more like intervention right yeah i just i think they're they're focusing on the hey have a seat right right right where we gotta talk to you but like dude so i'm playing this and we'll talk about it later but like this is guys this is clearly not a uh it's clearly not a well-optimized game it's very clearly it's very weird that he got defensive about it where because he's like i i can't remember exactly do you remember what exactly what he said because there were some because he went off on a it was a crazy long it was very much a like i'm sorry that happened to you or congratulations type thing i'm not reading all this yeah i can look it up but because i yeah i just started to a specific tweet because i looked for our the purposes of our podcast i linked to a specific tweet wherein the ps5 pro version seems to be especially fucked up or at least for a lot of people it seems based on what he basically said to someone like you have to shut the game off and restart it every few hours so i guess it's a memory leak of some sort is the problem right i assume yeah good which is bad like like a game that's well optimized doesn't have this these issues and i think he was just there were so many excuses being like oh well i can help you tweak your hardware it's like brother you're the goal if you're making a game like this is so that as many as few people have issues with it as possible you can't just sit there and pretend like it's not a problem that this is happening for everybody.

2:09:08It's a little insane. For people that are unaware of what we're saying, I mean, I'm looking at a lot of his tweets now. It's like Randy Pitchford, who's obviously the head of Gearbox, has been incredibly aggressive

2:09:20in combating people's claims that Borderlands just isn't working properly, though it's selling extremely well. I think it got to almost 300 ,000 concurrence, which is incredibly respectable on Steam. And it's probably sold millions of copies at this point, I would assume. So they're probably feeling pretty good, but he's being incredibly defensive. So I wanted to just say that I'll try to find some specific examples. Dustin, what are you thinking about this? Yeah. I mean, rainy pitch for no stranger to a crash out here and there. Clearly this game does have, well, I mean, both on, I, let me restart on PC specifically.

2:09:56I've seen that it has the traversal stutter. It has various issues. A lot of people I've seen things where people are, playing the game and it's just crashing and they're losing some of the drops that they've got things like that and particularly playstation as you guys were saying the issue is like it has some kind of memory leak where eventually it just starts to completely fuck up and you need to turn it off and restart it or whatever clearly there there's no denying there is some level of performance issues across the board with this game um and so for for randy it's like yeah your your best bet is probably say like yeah we know we're working on some issues but what i'm trying to find you need to tell somebody like learn to learn to code your own game yeah he said something like make your own engine i'm reading a lot of the stuff here it's you have to kind of read it but it's a lot of it is like very snarky troll like concern troll kind of shit where he's like trying to help people optimize their pcs and he's arguing with the journalist paul tassie about stuff and it's it's just a strange situation just in that i don't know randy personally i don't know that i've ever met him i actually might have i might have met him but not at a borderlands event actually this comes up every once in a while the alien colonial marines event that i was at he was at that i think and i think i might have met him there that was at new york comic-con probably 2012 something like that um oh weird i was there oh really yeah you were at that event at new york comic-con 2012 yeah so the one where they had the actors from the Like there had like that one of the actors from the game or from the movie.

2:11:34I think so. Yeah. Yeah. That's so funny, dude. Yeah. It was like a restaurant or something like offsite. I remember. Oh, I don't know if I went there, but I know it was at New York Comic Con that year. So. Yeah, I don't know. I don't. So I'm just saying I don't know him. I don't want to judge him as a person, but I just this is what we were saying earlier about the sucker punch situation where it's like, just shut up. and I wonder if he's kind of feeling a little confident and a little snarky because he sees the numbers and the game's probably doing extraordinarily well one of the big things he was saying was he was like breaking down the numbers that I don't know if you guys saw this like breaking down the numbers of like people that are actually complaining about the game's performance and he was doing all this this math about being like we have this many people in our queue for for problems 95 % of them feel this way and then there's 5 % left and then out of that 5 % And it's like, dude, what are you doing?

2:12:26Just shut up and have your people fix the problem. It's the problems. I think the bigger question I have, though, here is about something this Silk Dong, the Inquirer Silk Dong wrote in. Says, hey, CDC, why do so many modern games feel so poorly optimized? When you compare today's releases with games from four or more years ago, the graphical leap isn't that significant. Is ray tracing and global illumination really worth the performance hit? The common response is often just get a more powerful PC. I mean, that's what Randy Pitchford's been saying, I think. But even those of us with high end rigs are finding that many of these games still run terribly or they say just turn off ray tracing and tone down the shadows.

2:13:05It's like, bitch, I paid close to$2 ,000 for my PC. I shouldn't have to tone shit down. Titles like Final Fantasy VII Remake, Uncharted 4 and Gears 5 still look fantastic and run smoothly. I understand the drive to push technology forward, but if a game performs poorly, is a visual upgrade truly worth it? Gears 5 example, Gears 5, for example, looks and runs better than Gears Reloaded. So why is Gears Reloaded more demanding on hardware? This is a great question, I think, just in. It gets back to what I've been wondering, and this isn't so Borderlands is going to be the most recent example of this is like you had to have known this.

2:13:37I just don't believe it. And how close to the wire does this shit get all the time that games can be released in this condition? I mean the important thing to remember about in a way the ps2 era I guess would be the last to experience this because of patching and all the rest but games had to be done and I know they were simpler I understand I get it I was there like I it doesn't need to be explained to me they were simpler they were not as complicated they were cheaper to make they were quicker to make but you had no excuses like if a game just was fucked up it was fucked up forever and I think things have kind of gone in this reverse situation where there's just a reliance on patching and people kind of eating shit and I understand why people are upset about it and this is an unreal engine 5 game yeah so yeah what is going on with this thing I don't it seems to be I know what Tim Sweeney was saying that like people are just not doing shit right.

2:14:44They're not spending enough time on it and all the rest. It's like, I don't know, man. There seems to be something amiss here with this. And I just don't understand why developers aren't more forthright. It's like, how could you not know that the PS5 Pro version had a memory leak issue? I don't get how you didn't know that. How could you possibly not know?

2:15:06That's why no one asks these questions when they get access to these people. Like, this was a surprise to you. Can you explain that? You probably had dozens of people playing this on PS5 Pro in QA. So. I don't know. I don't know if you guys have anything to add on that, but even me as not a technical person, it's like it's starting to bother me, too, where I'm like, what what is happening? Right. Yeah. As far as what Silk Dong said, I agree and disagree. The disagree part is that, well, I guess it's it's interesting now with PC gaming, because I remember like years ago, there used to be when you would get a game, even on the best hardware, you wouldn't be able to max it out.

2:15:50And it was because it was built. It was like, Hey, we can, you're going to get a great experience, but we're building this game so that future hardware can push it even further. But consumer mindset has totally shifted in the PC market where it's like people buy a 40, 90 or 50, 90. And if they're not getting perfect frames on the highest mode, then they have a problem with it. There's a problem with a game. The other thing too on the other side is that game developers have started changing the way that their settings menus are that they don't have these, you know, future reaching settings anymore because they know that consumers want to be able to max it out no matter what.

2:16:32But regardless, the thing about some of these Unreal Engine 5 games and particularly Borderlands to my understanding is that it's it's that even if you have a two thousand dollar pc you can lower the settings you could put it on the lowest setting uh or medium whatever and these games are still going to have performance problems it's not necessarily um you know it's it's the way the game is built it's not optimized um so and yeah unreal 5 is clearly often the indicator behind these and it It's weird because there are a bunch of examples of very well optimized Unreal 5 games. If I remember correctly, the finals, which is a game I've been singing the praises of recently on PC, dude, it is pretty damn well optimized.

2:17:21And it looks amazing. The destruction is unlike any game you've ever played before. So it's not impossible. Yeah, we get it. Okay. No, no, I'm saying because the finals, like you're always, you're always fling the finals. We get it. finals sorry i interrupted you that was i didn't mean to be rude that's okay that's okay um so yeah it's it's really annoying i hope that uh some developers take more caution for this um and the the real thing too the last the last point is that uh developers are going to continue to do this until they are punished for it financially so if you downloaded i mean if you got it on steam and you played an hour and we're like yeah this runs like shit uh refund it which that's what randy says to do in many of his tweets is like oh well ask for a steam refund it's like you should don't reward these games that come out and then don't run well regardless of the platform it sucks with playstation because you can't really get a refund unless you got a mind's eye situation or or you know version one cyberpunk but that's i mean part of the reason with me and metal gear i was like i can just wait for it unfortunately i'm convinced that they are never going to fix metal gear uh and they're just like they never fixed oblivion so yeah that's that's a whole another thing too right where it's just like specifically with unreal 5 like i feel like unreal 5 games that are borked or like at the very beginning for some reason do not get the treatment that I feel like a lot of other games get which is like oh we're gonna we're actually gonna do something to fix this stuff we're gonna improve performance we're gonna fix XYZ for whatever reason a lot of Unreal 5 and maybe it's to be fair maybe it's just because like the nature of the games that we've seen a lot of that have these issues are remakes things like Oblivion and you know Metal Gear where like maybe the maybe the argument is made where it's like it's not really worth putting in the extra time if people if people are enjoying it as is whatever but to me it's kind of egregious like not only do you have an engine that's like for whatever reason uniquely uh unoptimized in the majority of cases it feels like but now you're you're not even getting like the post-launch support to alleviate those issues like i'm pretty sure oblivion has the same issue that that borderlands has like as far as like what i'm experiencing and what i'm what i remember from from oblivion it's just like what the fuck is going on dude it's kind of unbelievable it's interesting too because the two games you brought up are made by the same developer but from different publishers running on the same engine is there are there are there unreal engine five games that are like phenomenal phenomenal you know performance kinds of games was it uh yeah i remember um i'm sorry yeah the oh that's right the finals immortal of avium i was gonna say ran well i think that was the first that was the first commercial single player on real five game i think i felt like immortals didn't run super well i don't remember it ran fine yeah i don't remember having i don't remember that being an issue for me let's say that yeah yeah it wasn't it wasn't as bad it wasn't nearly as bad as like oblivion was or parts of metal gear are but like there were there were parts of Immortals of Avian where I was like whoa there's definitely some like bumps in the road on that one from an engine perspective I can't think of like I'm actually like surprised that I don't remember the finals being on Unreal it's kind of crazy yeah there's a Reddit thread called examples of well optimized Dewey 5 games so Fortnite obviously I mean that is epic proper so it makes sense that they know how to use their own shit one of the lists someone put a list of all these games the top one is concord oh my god optimized well optimized dv5 game so gee well it was in fairness that was the one that was the one glowing thing that i could say about it if it if i if you told me it was unreal engine 5 i wouldn't believe it because it did run really well yeah so i guess the fortnight example in particular really i mean again internal epic game but shows that it's it's not the engine per se if it's in other words it's not every not everything's fucked up so maybe it is on the developers probably a little column a and column b i would assume expedition 33 oh yeah it was a ue5 game so i don't remember how that performance was but that's not an intensive game really i mean i guess it is in the battles it can be with the effects and stuff but yeah it's split fiction ue5 game i don't play it not intensive yeah so we'll but multiplayer that's the thing though is that it doesn't even necessarily necessarily matter if it's intensive it does it have for me the big thing is the traversal stutter where it's like when you go between a block and it's loading in and it like you know hitches for a second that shit bothers me so much so and it doesn't even matter with some of these games whether intensive or not they'll still do this stutter thing well yeah i i feel like i notice it in games with a lot of that where there's a lot of ai or things that are extreme like in borderlands there's like a lot of you know guns to keep in the memory and there's a lot of like excellent there's a lot of ai there's there's like really big environments in metal gear there's like all these like kind of ai going on um both with like like animals and people and you know keeping track of states and certain things and oblivion obviously is big example of that with a cpu load i wonder if that's it because it's like i'm it is the one between the three games that i play that are unreal that that run really fucked that seems to be it seems like that's the the major similarity but i don't know i think it's probably like you said column a column b yeah because to me it's um there's got to be some responsibility on both sides just logically speaking it's easy to cast a game like fortnight indicates that it can't all be one but talented teams that would otherwise be able to produce show that it can't all be on the other either probably a lot of documentation issue and documentation issues and just a lack of like intrinsic knowledge on how to use the engine comparable to previous engines where people like I don't want to draw apples to apples especially because I'm not in this world but it's like you know a lot of people spend a lot of time on marinating on Unreal 3 and Unreal 3 you know X and whatever it's like so you get to and the games are coming out quicker and so you get better at it and now these games take forever and the engine's new and the documentation is fresh and no one's really no one on your team's released a game on the engine because no one has made it so it's like It's a bit of a catch-22.

2:24:14I get it. Yeah. All right. What's next here? Oh, I wanted to see what you guys thought of this. And IGN brings us this story. It says, Hell is Us director calls Hollow Knight Silksong Shadow drop to release date a little callous in quotes. This comes from the Friends Per Second podcast and they relay the text as this. So the guy's name is Jonathan Jacques Belletet. pretty French name. One of the most French names I've ever heard in my life, in fact. And he was the director of Hell is Us. And he was on Friends Per Second and he said, when it was asked about the shadow dropping of Team Cherry and their decision, he said the following, quote, when you know you're that big, I think a shadow drop is a bit like, wow, as the GTA 6 of Indy to shadow drop something like this is a little callous, he says, but admitted, quote, emails and texts and messages back and forth between a lot of people between us and our publisher.

2:25:10It was a real thing. We decided to keep the date and I'm happy that we did. We're still much bigger than some of the smaller ones who would have gotten a lot more affected and who decided to change their dates. Changing the date of Hell is Us would have been a pretty big endeavor. The real pain in the ass is that you have to refund your pre-orders when you do that, right? That's the real, how are you going to do this? Now you need to rebuild them. We didn't say, oh my God, we have to do it, but we can't because of that. We were like, no, I think we can get through the storm. Honestly, it's not just Silk Song.

2:25:34There was Kronos, The New Dawn. It was a busy time. That's the thing nowadays, honestly, getting a window where you're pretty much alone is almost impossible. 15 years ago, the mid end of the summer was always a dead period, but there's no such thing anymore. It's just constant madness. We'll get into that greater question in a minute, but I thought this was interesting use of the word callous because callous just in my own internal lexicon and vocabulary, like that's a negatively slanted word callousness is a disregard for people and i went and looked it up just to see like um oxford said showing or having an insensitive or cruel disregard for others and yeah i don't know chris do you read silk songs i know that that that wasn't their intention but and this is it's crazy how much of a big story this has become do you think that there was like an insensitivity do you think that not that they shouldn't literally be allowed to do that but maybe that they should have been more aware of others around them.

2:26:33I know we got into this a little bit last week, but now we have evidence of an actual director of one of the games that was affected by it saying like this was kind of bullshit. What do you think? I don't know. I'm of a few minds with this. I feel like ultimately it's not their responsibility to, you know, act in the best interest of other companies or anybody else really. Like it's not necessarily their decision or like it's not something that they should necessarily consider. At the same time, you know, is it is it fairly disregarding in a way that's like apathetic to what it might do to other people to just shadow drop basic or not shadow drop, but like basically shadow drop an announcement for like a two week release window in a time where like two new IP are going?

2:27:24maybe i think there's a there's probably an argument to be made that like um team cherry as an indie studio maybe as from a point of like solidarity like if you're going to make you're going to make butt loads of money on your game anyway you know you're a very small team everybody's hyped for this everybody's gonna pay for it why not go against like the big dogs in some way like why not push towards like the release of like a call of duty or whatever where you're not really going to lose anything like you're good i could see that but at the same time again it's just not it's it's not required of them to think about it so like i don't know if i really i don't know if i care really um but it is something that i think i would consider maybe like if i finished my game or whatever and i knew that like we were we were at kind of the top of the world really and there was no way for us to really fail and i looked at the release window and we could go whenever we wanted.

2:28:21I don't know if I personally would choose the day that two new IP are going. Personally. But that's, you know, I don't have that company. So. Hmm. What do you think, Dustin? Hmm. I really think I 100 % agree with Chris. And I don't want to just repeat everything that he said. It's not their job to worry about other people when they're releasing their game. But at the same time, it's like, if I was the director of Hell is Up, us i would totally get it like i totally understand where it's like man this was kind of our especially a game like hell is us very unique game you got to be kind of be sold on the idea of it um and a game like hollow or silksong is just like it's not necessarily even a competition of like people being willing to pay for it but it's like oh well um it's people's time right where it's like maybe if you're interested in hell is us and then that game you were waiting for seven years comes out it's like sorry uh that's what i'm doing instead um but that's that's competition that's the market it's cutthroat so just kind of how it goes yeah that's what i was thinking too is that i i'm i'm more in agreement with the last part of what you said as opposed to you guys earlier getting into it where it's like this isn't a team sport it's not really our problem them.

2:29:42And I get that. That is, I guess, inherently callous, but I wouldn't call it cruel disregard as the Oxford dictionary says. I would call it more insensitive than anything. I mean, maybe definitionally insensitive, but to what end? I mean, anywhere. And this is what I wanted to get into. I'll get into this next inquiry and then it'll explain a little bit better where I'm coming from al pacchino wrote him said hi cdc first off thank you for all that you do i'll steer clear of the controversy and send in a gaming related question to lighten things up oh thank you al you've been hinting at it for a while but is 2025 the breaking point the moment where the scale finally tips from a lot of games to too many the sheer saturation of the market is starting to feel overwhelming we're seeing an unprecedented volume of high quality games and yet some are getting completely buried players don't have the time to play them all journalists can't cover everything platform holders can't possibly split spotlight every release games are starting to eat each other alive hell is us and chronos were completely buried under the weight of silksong it really feels like there's no more air in the room and even for those that do play them all the impact of each release is diluted just this year we've had expedition 33 uh death training 2 donkey kong silksong kingdom come to split fiction and any other years these would dominate the conversation Thanks again.

2:30:58Keep up the amazing work. This is more where I'm coming from, where I think the industry is becoming so cannibalistic of itself that there is no good place that they the best they could do is give a lot of people six months warning or something that this is where we're going to release our game and we're really going to do it this time. Very similar to what I think Rockstar has been trying to do for the industry. And I think that that's maybe different. I mean it's demonstrably different but that's going to be the biggest entertainment property in history not just games and so maybe a little more regard for everyone around you and all the stakeholders is actually kind of vital because you're going to fucking wipe people out but yeah so I think that maybe that's a little bit different and you don't want to shut you can't really inherently shadow drop a game like Grand Theft Auto although I think that that would be ironically we're talking about this a week or two ago one of the games that would imagine they're just like here it is it would be crazy if you did that without ever admitting it was in development at all.

2:31:58That's the kind of fantasy shit that I would like do if I had like money and means and like a game or it was like, let's fuck around. Like, let's really do. And that, that would be kind of crazy. Silksong is a$20 game. So to me, it's not a matter of the money it's sucking away from other people. It is a time thing. And time becomes money, not only in the literal sales of the games, but by the time you get to a hell is us or get to a Kronos, those companies might've been compelled to drop the price of their games to compel more sales, thus diluting their market share. But to Al Pacachino's point, it's like, this is kind of the nature of it everywhere now.

2:32:35I remember when Crisis Core came out, which is a game that comes up every once in a while, the remaster of it in like the second week of December or something like that. It's like, what? But then it kind of made perfect sense. I'm like, yeah, this is kind of awesome actually. But it's crazy that this is even happening where publishers are trying to find any avenue to like release a game where it might get some modicum of your attention. And he's also right that the reality between all these games, maybe, well, not all of them, but because Split Fiction is probably the example of a game that actually really murdered.

2:33:10None of the Expedition 33 that I think is at four and a half million now, which is awesome. I mean, like amazing. They probably haven't dropped the price yet. So, but Death Stranding 2 was kind of soft. I don't know about Donkey Kong sales, is probably probably good. We're never really going to know the full texture of it until they release the data because of all the physical sales. Kingdom Come 2 did very respectable, but all of these games would have done even better in a different era. And what we're going to find, I think ultimately there's going to be a lot of hell to pay. I guess part of the pun with hell is us, but there's just not enough time.

2:33:46And there's no good avenue around it other than the natural capitalistic weaning of the games that don't do well. That's all there is to it. It's unfortunate, but it's what Shroudsdale Nick said recently, like good, making a good game is just simply not enough. Got to make something great, something special, and then you have to get attention and things just come and go. Like you'll never hear about them ever again. For like for a week, someone will talk about a game and then it's gone forever. It feels it feels like a vacuous situation uh of playing the play of never marinating of not having spotlight in time to to and how rare it is to ingest something as a community truly because everyone's focus is so split so i think it's a really so is it callous i guess but it's not really their problem either i still think the coolest thing they could have done is to just release it the day that they came out of silence.

2:34:51I was even thinking about this. You don't want to be too self-aggrandizing, but a Christmas night release or something. Like a shadow, just coming out and being like, the game's out. Again, it would be a fantasy to just have access to this Twitter account. People waiting with bated breath for years for any announcements and indication. On Christmas night, they're settling in And there's a tweet that goes out with a piece of key art. And it says, we're pleased to announce that Hollow Knight Silksong is available now on all these platforms, all these links pricing. Yeah. It's like a fantasy. So I get from that point of view where they didn't need to do that, but they did nonetheless.

2:35:38I wonder how hell is this is doing? I think we have numbers of Kronos of a, what is it? A couple hundred thousand, which is okay. we'll talk about the game in a little while it deserves a lot more than that in my opinion all right a few game announcements and then we can get through the news here completely um there's a leak that indicates that the next like a dragon game yakuza series is kwami 3 according to reporting around this it was briefly listed according to video games Chronicle via an official website for the game and it got results of it cached in Google. So basically what happened is someone at Sega likely published this website with no external linking to it.

2:36:23It was spidered. And then they quickly took it down. This is significant because there is a, I think, imminent live stream probably around Tokyo Game Show that it was supposed to show the future of the series. I don't know if they're going to do a next new mainline game there as well. but uh kuwami is the sub series within the yakuza like a dragon series that are remakes of the original games so kuwami one came out in 2016 on ps3 and ps4 in japan and then uh in 2017 on ps4 in the west and that's a remake of the original 2005 2006 ps2 game and then kuwami 2 came out in 2017 in Japan, 2018 in the West on PS4.

2:37:06And that's a remake of the 2006 slash 2008 PS2 game. So Kiwami 3, therefore, will be the remake of Yakuza 3, which was a PS3 game that came out in 2009 in Japan and 2010 in the West. People seem really excited about this. Dustin, what are your thoughts? I think it's cool, particularly because this game is trapped. It's hard to play all of the Yakuza games if you really want to go through and do all of them. I'm much more interested in this new game that they're doing, which I consistent Stranger Than Heaven, which is their their next game from RGG. So hopefully we'll see more of that as well. Happy for Yakuza fans.

2:37:54Someday I will join you. Yeah, this is this is the kind of stuff that reminds me. it's like, yeah, now there really is a route to play or will be a route to play the first three. And then you're getting into the PS4, I think after Yakuza 4, I think Yakuza 5 maybe, where you're going to have this kind of unified situation where everything will kind of be available to you in the mainline series and you can kind of play them pretty easily. So, we don't have to rely on PS3 anymore. Chris, any interest in this new Yakuza game, Like a Dragon, Kiwami 3? Impossible. Impossible. I liked Like a Dragon what I played and then I just I hit a wall of grinding where I was like I don't want to do this and there's so many of these games coming out forever like forever it feels like like oh it seems like they're on like some crazy cadence and I'm like I can't I simply can't keep up it's yeah I mean I've I don't want to say I unlike Assassin's Creed and others we're going to talk about Assassin's Creed in a minute I haven't written off Yakuza it's like i do i get it i want to get into it it would be fun it's like trails they linger as these fanciful possibilities that will never be fulfilled because there's just there are not there's not enough hours in the day i would have to like dedicate my life to yakuza for months and i can't just jump in i can't do it it's just not possible for me all right speaking of assassin's creed there is word over and this is brought to us by the Gaming Leaks and Rumors subreddit, which is a pretty valuable resource that I cite sometimes.

2:39:22They cite us even sometimes, which is pretty cool. They relayed word of a video in the French language from Jeu Video, which is an old video game website in France. And they have information on Assassin's Creed Black Flag Remake. Not a huge surprise. The French language stuff. Ubisoft's obviously a French publisher, so the connections are probably French. This makes perfect sense. they have bullet points of the video and here's what it says well first of all i guess we should set the stage assassin's creed for a black flag remake came out in late 2013 as i recall it was released on ps3 first and then a few weeks later it came to ps4 as a launch game and that was when they were still numbering them because there was uh what assassin's creed 1 in 07 then assassin's creed 2 in 09 and then they started releasing them every year so there was brotherhood in 10 Revelations in 11, Assassin's Creed 3 and 12.

2:40:15So then we were getting to Assassin's Creed 4, another mainline game. And this was a well-liked game. In fact, it was what ultimately ended up spawning Skull and Bones, I think, which is pretty interesting. And then the next year we got Rogue, which was kind of the PS3 release, and Unity, which was the PS4 release, and on and on and on. We go from there. Well, Assassin's Creed Black Flag remake apparently is real according to this source from JuVideo as broken down by the subreddit, and they have some bullet points here. And there's some changes that are being made. I'll be curious what you guys think.

2:40:43Says the remake removes the modern day and replaces them with more content in Edward's pirate era. This is a few more extra hours compared to the original. Gameplay will shift closer to the RPG style of newer AC games. Loot and gear stats for Edward, so that wasn't an original game. Inventory systems and combat leading towards the RPG style rather than the choreographed combat of the original. No loading screens when moving between ship and land. Map is not bigger, but islands will be filled with more activities and side content. Expected to include cut content from the original. like part of Mary Reed's storyline that were dropped.

2:41:13It's not on the same big budget remake level as Resident Evil 2 or Silent Hill 2, but more of a faithful reimagining with updates. It's funny they say that because I would consider Resident Evil 2 and Silent Hill 2 also on two different strata of remakes. Resident Evil 2 is a much more expensive remake than Silent Hill 2. Uses Ubisoft's new Anvil pipeline engine, same as AC Shadows, with a release window of likely March 2026, although it could slip to later in the month. And this is apparently being developed by the Skull and Bones people, which I think are in Singapore or at least partially by them.

2:41:45We got a letter here from Polish Ivan Drago who said, hey, SS crew, what is going on with the Assassin's Creed Black Flag remake discourse? Ubisoft announces an amazing surprise in remaking the game by removing the modern day slop, adding new RPG and fighting mechanics, adding some extra pirate story and half of the internet and journalists are bringing out their pitchforks and demanding the game die or at least remove all these changes, especially the RPG loot and combat mechanics. I thought these were all things people liked in the games and would appreciate in a remake of an old Assassin's Creed game.

2:42:13I was always under the impression that the hatred for the modern day storyline was one of the common unifiers amongst fans of the series. Am I taking crazy pills? Or are these just crocodile tears from clout chasers and journalists? Either way, this is probably a day one purchase for me. Chris, do you have any insight into this? I'm not connected enough to the Assassin's Creed universe, but I have noted that some people do seem upset about this. And frankly, it does seem like some of the changes are heavy handed. I just don't know how people are supposed to feel about that one way or the other.

2:42:37I have no opinion on it. yeah I don't know I think I would feel more differently if this was like if this was a remake of a game that was not playable on modern hardware you know what I mean if this was like hey this game on PS3 it's been stranded on PS3 forever you know we're gonna remake it and we're going to superimpose a lot of modern design that a lot of people you know if you like the black flag there's a pretty good chance you're not super into more modern Assassin's games because they are very different so we're going to take that old experience we're going to bring it forward for you but we're going to tweak it to high heaven and it's going to be so different that it's ultimately not going to be the same experience um that i could understand some level of outrage for that because you're really giving people no other choice but to engage with this project in almost like it's almost like how george lucas keeps like fucking with this stuff you know what i mean or like um how any creative would would do it whereas oh java's uh you know java's here now or all the now i want to move his head a little bit to the right when he shoots like i get the frustration of not having a pure version of the original to to play with modern stuff but i think the issue is that ultimately black flag is playable and i'm fairly certain that black flag is playable on ps5 is it not at least as a ps4 skew yeah i think yeah i think it was re-released yeah so like you're right it would be there natively you're right i'm sorry yeah yes yes yes right so that's so like i just feel like i don't i don't really see the problem i get it i guess if you're like a purist and you're not really interested in that you kind of want the old game back with like you know better performance or like more bells and whistles like i guess i guess i kind of get it but it's far from something that i would complain about just because the original is there for you and i would imagine at this point that it you benefit greatly from playing that original ps4 version on ps5 at least in some capacity so like i don't know i i don't really get it um i played a fair amount of assassin's creed shadows and i just you know i don't know what i was expecting it's it's it's just clearly not for me and i but also i didn't really like assassin's creed black flag either like i think i played it for like a few hours and i was like i'm not really into this i don't know that's like technically like a weird because i think that's like the i think that's the beloved one outside of two maybe it's two and four are the ones that people like cite is like the you know the peak of the series as far as like oh man i loved the pirate stuff i was like i don't yeah i want to i want to be in a set i remember i hated the but i in assassin's creed 3 when they force you onto the boat or like whenever you had to do a boat mission i i hated it so the thought of like oh hey guys guess what we're gonna make a new one and it's gonna be mainly the boat stuff in fact it's gonna be so central to the to the whole thing that we're gonna base all of it around it and then we're gonna make a singaporean government slave away for a decade on like i don't know everything about it was like not appealing to me i get it it's probably got a good story and i'm and i'm sure maybe i would like it if i went all the way through it but like it assassin's street 4 is a completely aromanticized project to me that i could not care less what they do with and so i don't really empathize or really understand what the outrage is especially when you can just play the original on modern hardware and it's not stranded elsewhere dustin what are your thoughts i'm surprised to see so much of the backlash like i'm looking at the the reddit thread from gaming leaks and rumors and people saying like oh rpg adding rpg elements fuck off things like that it's like i thought that's i thought assassin's creed fans really liked the rpg elements that have been introduced they just recently did a more traditional assassin's creed game i don't remember what it's called there's so many mirage mirage and it if i remember right it didn't do quite as well as the other assassin's creed games so it's like i could under maybe it's just like that you know they're the the loud ones that are that are upset that their old style Assassin's Creed game, they finally have a chance for something like this to be remade and it's going to be remade in a way they don't like.

2:46:52I get that. So it's not particularly appealing to me. This is one of the Assassin's Creed games that I have played before. I remember not really liking 3, being disappointed with it, and then hoping that this game Black Flag would be more appealing to me, but I wasn't really into the boat stuff. So you know uh this is really where i kind of fought fell off the series for good at that point so same um i'm sure it will i'm regardless of the complainers i'm sure this will be huge yeah that was uh i'll always remember that staggered release being really interesting i love them not being able to hold the ps3 version like them releasing it and then releasing the ps4 version that stands out to me.

2:47:40All right. There are a couple more announcements I wanted to get through. Dragon Quest 7 Reimagined has been announced. It's really interesting. I'm especially interested to see what you think of this, Dustin, because it's like a new type of... This is, I guess, if 2D HD or HD 2D or whatever the fuck it's called from Square Enix is like this one thing for older games, this is maybe a different sort of thing. It's almost like... It's not claymation. It's like puppetry and shit. It's interesting. Micah told me because it was at a Nintendo event. And she's like, did it always look like? She told me, oh, Dragon Quest 7 has been reannounced.

2:48:18I'm like, oh, that's cool. And she's like, did it always look like this? And I'm like, what are you talking about? I didn't see it until later. And I was like, oh, no, it didn't look like this at all. So it's got a whole new look. It's coming out on PS5. So no PS4 version, interestingly. And it'll launch on February 5th, 2026. Dragon Quest 7 came out on PS1 in 2000. in Japan and was released in the fall of 2001 as Dragon Warrior 7. And that was the last of the Dragon Quest games we got in the West that was called Dragon Warrior. We knew Dragon Quest 1, 2, 3, and 4. Dragon Quest 1, 2, 3, and 4 is Dragon Warrior on the NES as well.

2:48:57This was a rights issue, I think, that they eventually got solved after this. And it was the first Dragon Warrior game we had gotten in the West, mainline Dragon Warrior game or Dragon Quest game since 1992. Famously, we had Dragon Quest 1, 2, 3, and 4 on NES staggered. Dragon Quest 1 came out, I want to say, in 1986 in Japan, but didn't come out until 1990 in the West. There was a massive staggering. By the time I think we got Dragon Warrior 4, which was 1992, I'm pretty sure Dragon Quest 5 was already out on SNES or Super Famicom. We never got it out here. Dustin, I don't know if you know this about Dragon Quest 5 and 6, but the reason that those games weren't brought over to the West, a major reason why was because they were so text heavy that the English translations, which would have been much bigger in terms of characters, would have required them to create bigger ROM chips for these games.

2:49:55And it would have made the costs incredibly prohibitive at the time. So they just never brought them over. with the game being disc based they were able to finally bring Dragon Quest back and later on of course 5 and 6 were re-released. The reason 6 is relevant here is because like 3 and 6 Dragon Quest 7 has a class system as well and this was I think I'm pretty sure level 5 yeah level 5 would come on to start working on Dragon Quest after this so this was kind of the last armor project only Square Enix release actually it was Square Saw or no I'm sorry it was Enix released at the time anyway that's a lot of setup i'm excited about this uh you have any thoughts on it it's uh important to remember i forgot this actually until i just looked at it that is this kind of considered a remake of a remake because there was the 3ds version of dragon quest yeah i don't seven yeah there is i don't know so and that's an important point is that it is a remake i mean naturally it is because look at it but the thing about dragon Warrior 7 or Dragon Quest 7 that people remember is it is fucking huge.

2:51:01Like it's a long ass game. Maybe not quite as long as Dragon Quest 11, but maybe the second longest Dragon Quest game otherwise. And as I understand, they've like cut it down. Which is interesting. So it is a it is a fundamental change to the game, which I don't think the Dragon Quest 7 3DS version was. So in that way, it is probably a more proper remake. of the game yeah i'm looking there's like a long play series of dragon quest 7 on 3ds each episode is an hour long or or more than some of them are more than an hour and there are 80 80 youtube videos so yeah clearly it was uh very very long but it was the longest game i'd ever played at that time i want to say like yeah first of all for people that wanted that are excited about this you can thank me directly don't think square thank me because just in the last two years i purchased this game for a premium on playstation one i think it was like 50 or 60 bucks this is what happens i buy a game on the classic version of it it gets remade this is a good game to have though in my opinion in your collection oh yeah i haven't played it but i wanted it for the collection maybe i'll play it at some point probably i'll play this remake but uh i have seen some some conversations about the the art style clearly they're they're going to they want it to look more like the akira kira toriyama drawings the one character people are saying that like the blonde guy he looks like a character from team america yeah he does world police yeah the first thing i thought of when i saw him i was like that's matt damon yeah like that's uh it's insane so i think it looks cool i am definitely really interested in it either way it's going to be purchased in my house because holly is going to want to play it she's dude holly colin she's she's all in on dragon that's wonderful she will play i mean she's not trying to like play all of them she's not necessarily going back but between 11 and she played three 2d hd remake she played builders two and i showed her this trailer she's like oh yeah i'm in i'm in for that i'm like that's excellent she wants to play one and two remake also so i'm excited about one and two remake because those are just such more small or more manageable games and they don't they're not going to demand too much of you dragon quest seven even in a in a in a remade format is going to demand a lot it makes me wonder what they're going to do with eight and especially nine nine is a really interesting game because it's on ds it's a straight up handheld game there's no other version of it and i know um um there was some reluctance on the part of hori and other guys there to put it on handheld but they did but then it kind of isolated it i remember i was reading i remember that they they were basically saying that the game took so long because they were working on hardware that was like technically less powerful than their previous game on ps2 and that they like couldn't build on the game they had to kind of like revert back to this other way and it took like i think they delayed it like multiple times as i recall and it took a long time so this is cool really what i want to know more about is dragon quest 12 like enough already what is going on with this game that doesn't have to come out anytime soon but show it and i want to see what it looks like you you promise it's like adult oriented weird Dragon Quest game and I'm curious about it.

2:54:31I'm really curious about it. But 9 is the one I really want to know what they're going to do with because it would be easy enough to port 8. It's a PS2 game. You can just release it as a PS2 game if you want. They probably won't do that because they can make more money doing the bells and whistles version of it. And then of course level 5 was the co-developer of both 8 and 9. So there's that. Some interesting lore about Holly's Dragon Quest playthrough, which She played 11. She played it on Xbox game pass. Cause that's back when I had it. Uh, and when she beat it, whatever, like a hundred hour, 130 hours later, I made a joke tweet about like, I had her stand in front of the screen and be like, look, she did it.

2:55:15Like when you're kidding you, you know, whatever, uh, Doug Bowser, the president of Nintendo liked that tweet because it showed that there was a switch in the background and it was around the time. I think they released the game on switch. So I think he thought, oh, she played it on switch. Awesome. Like, gotcha. Gotcha, bitch. Because it was on Xbox. So, Doug, you've been had a fool. You got got.

2:55:42Another big release here for me anyway, is that Capcom announced at that same press conference for Nintendo, the Mega Man Star Force Legacy Collection. Dustin, I have a very specific reason why you should be excited about this, but we'll get into it in the inquiry. This is coming to PS4 and PS5 at some point in 2026. and this is a collection of the three Star Force games on DS. So the sequence of Mega Man games in terms of release chronology is like the core Mega Man games and then Mega Man X and then you get Mega Man Battle Network and then Legends is in there as well and then you get Mega Man Star Force.

2:56:16And after this, Mega Man kind of goes away with the exception of 9, 10, and 11, which is great, but otherwise there's really been no Mega Man. These are role-playing games that are not unlike Battle Network and they were released in in the japan the first one came out in 2006 and then 2007 in the west the second 2007 in japan 2008 in the west the third 2008 in japan 2009 in the west and it was funny i was looking things up and i'm like i'm pretty sure i reviewed these games and i did i reviewed one and two at ig and i was reading my reviews of them and uh my complaint about them at the time was i didn't give them good reviews my complaints was like we've seen like how many battle network games are you gonna release because this is these are basically just you know advanced you know, enhanced Battle Network games.

2:56:55Battle Network, of course, beginning on Game Boy Advance. But Dustin, there's a very specific reason I want you to know about this. And Dave Ramos wrote in about it, said, hey guys, with Mega Man Star Force Legacy Collection announced, there's nowhere else outside of a new game Capcom can go other than a Legends collection. Do you foresee Capcom ever doing such a collection? Or are the Legends games too dated to come out as is? I would prefer a remake, but I'm doubtful Capcom would see putting resources in the Legends remake a priority over Mega Man 12, X9, or whatever. What say you? This is why I think that this should be an eye-opener for you and other Legends enjoyers.

2:57:30There is nowhere else to go. Every Mega Man game with... There is one exception, and I'll get into that, but every Mega Man game of note is now out in these collections. The whole core Mega Man series, Mega Man 1 through 11, are all on PS4. Mega Man X through X8 are all on PS4. Mega Man Battle Networks 1 through 6 are all on PS4. This will bring Star Force 1, 2, and 3. Legend is all that's missing other than the Game Boy Mega Man games, which I'm surprised they still... Then there's five Game Boy Mega Man games, and they're really good. But the scuttlebutt about these for many years has been that those original ROMs are gone, that they're lost.

2:58:10I don't know that that would necessarily stop them from doing it because there's other examples of this happening to other companies, but old Capcom fans might remember that around the time they originally released the Anniversary Collection on PS2 and GameCube, which was in 2004, they announced that they were going to make a Mega Man World collection. The games are called Rockman World on Game Boy in Japan. And then they later came out and said, oh, never mind. We can't find them. So don't know what that's all about. And that's maybe been the preclusive reason why we've never seen them re-release.

2:58:39But those games are really cool. For Mega Man fans, they're interesting because they fuse the Mega Man games together. They came out interstitially or are supposed to represent the games interstitially. So Mega Man 2, for instance, on Game Boy is half of Mega Man 2 and half of Mega Man 3 put together as one game. Mega Man 3 is half of Mega Man 3 and half of Mega Man 4 put together into one game and so on and so forth. It's interesting. It's weird. And I loved them as a kid. You better believe it. So Dustin, thoughts? Are you feeling hopeful? I don't know if I'm quite feeling hopeful yet. Dave asks if they're too dated to come out as is.

2:59:16And I guess I'm not a super Mega Man fan overall because I haven't played a lot of these other ones but I have played Mega Man Legends 1 2 and Tron Bon in the last two years and yeah certainly they are especially Mega Man Legends 1 feel a little clunky they feel like very much a PlayStation 1 game so my hope would be that I think they could remake these games and they could do it relatively cheaply they're not like crazy long rpgs or anything like that so i would love for them to remake the games as a collection and they can probably do it pretty affordably as i was saying that would be the dream i kind of wonder if mega man legends just kind of gonna be forgotten that's honestly i guess i'm just preparing for that scenario where it's like yeah we did all the other ones we don't really think that uh it's they kind of have like a chip on their shoulder about Mega Man Legends after three.

3:00:17Yeah, they can't. They spike canceled it. Yeah, they really spike canceled that Mega Man to remake because they it was done and they and they're like, no, when after KG and Afune left, they're like, fuck this guy. And they just canceled all those games. Yeah, whatever happened to his wasn't he doing a Mega Man Legends game? He was doing Mighty No. 9. Well, no, he had a Kickstarter force and it was called like Red Ash. red ass red ass i don't think that even red ass he um i always he ended up somewhere like working on something else because he he created that that company concept and then they did um soul sacrifice which was good and that game recore which was an xbox exclusive and um and obviously mighty number nine which was trash i mean my number nine was bad yeah it was bad i was like oh my god i can't it was the 2.5 d was this is all wrong and uh he but he i'm trying to remember i gotta look it up he like ended up working like he he's doing other shit now that's like not really his and red ash as i recall was supposed to be a game and an anime and i think they were trying to get it like a cross media thing off the ground and it just never happened he it sucks man he was a really I knew and it's it was so surreal because I ended up knowing in a fun a fairly well through my interactions because he knew I was this huge Mega Man fan so he he like was very sweet to me and very nice to me and signed a bunch of things for me and always treated me well and recognized me and all that and I wanted him to do well but it just seemed like it didn't necessarily work out for him you know unfortunately but yeah we'll see what happens with this yeah red ass no r.i.p no no sign of red ass anywhere to be seen i forgot about that did you play that's an r.i.p bozo not an r.i.p in peace sorry did but taking i've taken a bunch of people's money i don't i was trying to find the kickstarter i think the kickstarter might have just been for the anime but sounds like they got over a hundred thousand dollars um right so sorry this is what i was looking for is yeah he ended up kind of like integrated into inti creates i think in some way because he's like he's the producer i think of the azure striker gunvolt games which are pretty good i mean those are those are more in line with what mighty number nine could have been which was like a faster more kinetic megaman that was based more on timing and scoring which is what in like that was what mighty number nine was and where everyone was like this sucks Like this is not Mega Man.

3:03:01This is like some different version of it. I was so disappointed in that game. What was the trailer crying like an anime fan on prom? Right, right. That's right. Oh, yeah, that's right. Naturally, naturally, naturally. And yeah, now he's at level five. I'm seeing so concept director on the fantasy life series. So, yeah, it seems like he I wish that everyone would just swallow their pride and get back to where they belong. like in a fune belongs working on mega man ega belongs working on castlevania like it's no coincidence that these those two series fell off a fucking cliff when they left their their companies yeah even mega man 11 which i liked is the only mega man game that was ever made without in a fune and it's good but it's not right it's not it's not doesn't feel quite right so it would be but everyone and i think japanese business i think it can't be overlooked that like the way they left it was very weird for people to quit and to like go do their own thing and it kind of and i think in a fune was eager kind of stayed quiet to his credit in a fune was very loud about how bad japanese games were and how everyone was fucking up and it was a big deal back then and i think that kind of i would assume alienated him from people and the ironic thing is Japan is roaring now.

3:04:19So they did take his words to heart because I think at the time he was right where he was like the shits. Do you guys remember that? When he quit Capcom, he's like, this shit sucks. No one knows what they're doing at all. And the West is just pounding us. And it was great. It was really good shit at the time and it was really newsworthy and I think he was on to something but I think that they righted the ship and thus he found himself without any partners maybe after that. I don't know. And certainly not Capcom. I mean, you could tell that there was bad blood there for sure with the way they treated his games when he left again that megaman universe game was done like it was done it was just waiting to be released and knowing that i was so pissed about that because it was mario make i don't know if you remember it was mario maker before mario maker it was a like make your own megaman game and it was built mega they built megaman 2 in it basically but the idea was that you would build your own stages and do your own thing it was a good idea but alas shame all right two more pieces of news really quick and then we can move on one of them late breaking but i wanted to bring this up from gamesindustry.biz.

3:05:28This isn't a huge surprise, but it quantifies what we've been talking about. Video game TV adaptations boost player numbers 140 % on average. A new study says, this is according to the website, and they write in the subhead, the release of the Fallout TV show in 2024 saw a near 500 % increase in the series active monthly players. Pretty impressive. They write here, quote, TV adaptations of video games drive an average player growth of almost 140%, according to new research from Ampere Analysis. the UK analytics firm reported its findings on September 16th, revealing that video game TV spinoffs deliver a more substantial boost to franchises than film adaptations.

3:06:04Ampere's game analytics title activity data showed that the average uplift in players following the release of a TV adaptation is 203 % compared to the 48 % uplift seen with movie adaptations. Amazon Prime's Fallout and HBO's The Last of Us are prime examples of the boost a TV spinoff can provide to a game franchise. Ampere analysis found that the release of the TV show at Fallout TV show in April 2024, which reached 100 million viewers worldwide in six months, boosted the franchise's monthly active users by 490%, with 80 % of the 14 million activated players playing the series for the first time.

3:06:36According to the analytics firm, by contrast, Fallout 76's June and December updates increased monthly active users by an average of 17%. In May, Sensor Tower reported that daily active users were 225 % higher for Fallout 3 and Fallout 4. So this is pretty interesting stuff. And then it says here, The Last of Us, which had 4.7 million viewers when it debuted in 2023. Ampere found that, quote, across the HBO shows two seasons, The Last of Us' franchise engagement increased by an average of 150%. Netflix's Devil May Cry series, which premiered in April 2025, boosted player numbers 358%. Chris, what are your thoughts on this?

3:07:17I think it's cool, actually. I think it makes sense. I think, look, I have always kind of been on the air of like we don't need we don't need games retold in movies necessarily or tv shows i think it's cool to do stuff within the worlds of these things i think it like a gangs of new york in in rapture or something that's like not a retelling of bioshock or you know x y and z i've always been more interested in that uh than direct retellings i think they're kind of redundant and i think you know very rarely do they um uh show up the thing that they're based on but I mean it's reaching people who don't play games or who at the very least play games but maybe don't care about these series outside of this and I think that's I think that's cool it makes sense why this is such a big deal or why this is such a big strategy for a lot of a lot of players going forward and why the whole like transmedia thing seems to be seems to be something that's being thought of earlier and earlier in development than than ever before really because it's clearly yielding some very undeniably positive results for the ips that engage in it i think um i don't know i think it's cool and i'm glad that we're finally in a place where like these things aren't just um how should i say this i'm glad we're at a place now where these where these types of projects aren't just de facto bad by virtue of them existing you know I mean, like I remember and it wasn't even really that long ago when like, oh, is a video game being turned into a movie?

3:08:55That's going to suck. Right. Of course. Or is a video game going to be turned into a show? That's going to be terrible. And it always was for a long time. And now at the very least, although I would disagree, although I would still say that like things like Uncharted and the Mario movie are far from great. I think they're serviceably like like those movies are better than a lot of other movies, which is not the case. that you couldn't really make you couldn't really make that case for like i don't know street fighter in like the 90s or like the mario movie where it's like yeah this is clearly the worst thing that's ever been seen like by human eyes at the very least it's funny because so i'm sorry good no no go ahead i was gonna say it's funny because when i was a kid we loved you guys know you guys know what captain n the game master is i assume is that yes it's like the old nintendo series from the late 80s early 90s the animated series and it's i loved it when i was a kid and it's so bad like when you go back and look at it it's like this is fucking horrible like it didn't represent the games at all like the characters were all wrong the designs were all wrong everything about it was fucking strange and i would have ate anything up at that time but it would have been so much cooler to get something quality and we never did right we just never did yeah and now we're in that realm where like fallout i thought fallout was excellent i think uh the last of us is you know the season one anyways is i think great um twisted metal is apparently very very good i haven't seen i haven't seen the new season or finish it or anything but it is supposed to be good we're we're finally in a place where like these are not only are they not only is it like a good marketing synergy where it's just like oh there's a new movie out so to promote the game And it's not like necessarily cynical in the sense, although I guess like the impetus to do it is somewhat cynical.

3:10:44I guess like the whole point is to like maximize engagement. But the process of putting these things together is not as cynical as it used to be. And clearly people care and clearly things are being done with some degree of reverence. That's working out for both parties. and you know it's cool to be able to like share that with like I don't know like my parents watched Fallout and they thought it was great and I was like that's so interesting. It is. Like that's cool like my parents are like in their 60s and 70s you know like they don't they're never going to play Fallout clearly but it's cool that like there are people in that generation that now have a relationship with it I think that's very very valuable and a very very smart idea and boy it makes it hurt even more that You know, some shows just are just terrible still.

3:11:37It's just I'm like looking at a screenshot of it and it's like, damn, dude, do you ever see like Mega Man, for instance, on Captain N? It's like a joke. Simon Belmont on Captain N is a joke. It's like none of it is right. None of it's right. Kid Icarus. None of it's right. It's all like, I don't know why we were just like, yeah, this is fucking awesome. Meanwhile, Mega Man looks like a crazy person. what the fuck is that's megaman yeah in the green yeah and he's like got a green yellow blue thing on it's like uh it's very strange and simon belmont's like some weirdo with like it's like it's just it's just a strange it was strange one thing i one thing i did like and maybe it's just because i was so desperate for anything is the the mid-90s megaman series is pretty good it's not good by adult you know it's it's cheap and it's not by adult you know standards but it was good for the time it was fine much better than captain you know simon belmont in captain is fucking crazy he looks like blasto almost it was it was so weird like the villains in it were like mother brain was one of the villains and like the eggplant wizards from kid icarus it was a strange show it was a strange show but a good marketing it again it's this is what i think of is like imagine how good a marketing vehicle would have been if it was good right and you like you look at and you almost wonder like why isn't it good like why that's what we're seeing yeah that's what we're seeing now though right right but are we because that's the thing that i was thinking it's like man if uh tv shows really motivate people to go and play these games.

3:13:19It would be nice if they had a twisted metal game right now. Don't you think? I think the plan was they were going to, you know, and wouldn't it be nice if Microsoft had a new Fallout game? That's that's the thing they dropped the ball with. It would be great. And now this is something we said months ago. People were like, why are they releasing a Last of Us collection? They've already released this so many times. It's like, that's why. Yeah, that's why is that people watch the show. They say, I want to play the games. here you go here's the package buy this easy makes complete sense it's annoying for us where it's like yeah we've seen these games released in various different ways a million times but it's like if tv shows motivate players to go and buy the games that's why they did it and it's good for games to get that even if they're late and they don't know anything and they're kind of noobs or whatever it's good it's good to get people in and playing and and revitalizing the space i do think that's wait hold on are you saying that not everything is for me that's right this is shocking i can't believe this is tragic this is tragic news what's interesting to me is that fallout is like i know a lot of uh women who are playing fallout right now like for the first time like that's interesting to me it's just like oh like it's like hitting like new like an entirely new like wave and like an entirely new demographic of player and they're into it which is cool like Like, I mean, I don't know, man.

3:14:46It's interesting. It would be, I guess, presumably there's so much money in it now that like it behooves you to make something good because now it's like like back then you could just I don't know. Sure. That's yeah. That's Simon Belmont, whatever. That's clearly Jay Leno, right? It's like a and like a pilot's outfit. But like he's Simon Belmont. Why is he dressed like a pilot? It is. I thought you might have been like exaggerating, but like it is it is that is crazy design. But for some reason, just as an elementary school kid, I was just like, yeah, right. Like, I don't know what I was like.

3:15:18I don't I was like so easily distracted. I was like, yeah, it's just fine. That's this is fine. That's how that's how underserved you are. Right. Basically. It's just like, yeah, I'll accept this green progerian Mega Man and it'll be completely fine. In hindsight, it's the craziest thing. But I will say like it's it's I don't know. I think I've personally turned turned a corner on this stuff where I'm just like now I'm actually like kind of like interested to see like what what comes out of a lot of these products i used to just hand wave it away or just be like uh but i think ever since um i think probably castlevania that first season of castlevania really like kind of was like wait it was so short and i was just like this is something maybe okay maybe maybe we're at this place now it almost feels like we're in the place um in like the early 2000s uh with uh comic book movies where like it used to like you had exceptions always i guess you you had like you know batman and like superman in the 70s or whatever but like it feels like now we're in like the real like wave of like stuff that's like at the very if if not great then at least like like beyond serviceable like like meets the expectations of like modern um modern movie making or modern uh television well enough that it's not considered like embarrassingly like it's like captain n or the myro brothers movie and that's nice it's cool i'm into it but it is going to paint what happens in the future though like this is now going to be a huge part of people's pitch decks going forward it's going to be a huge part of like the consideration for what gets greenlit and what doesn't as we've obviously seen with concord which was like a massive misstep but it's that is so it's so funny to me that they had that episode of secret level locked in it's so funny to me yeah like they knew it they knew it like there was this is we're not gonna fail guys yeah complete do you see star child he's going to capture the hearts and minds of everyone star this this star child character oh boy oh boy by the way did you guys see that there was like a it was like a podcast or something about firewalk and about the the demise of concord but it was kind of told without anyone acknowledging the game they were talking about it but it was people that worked on it did you see that going around no oh i gotta was that um is that a life yeah that would that was what was a series about this kind of stuff right like things melting down or whatever and it was apparently like a dozen or so people that worked on the game talking about it but i haven't listened to it yet but they don't ever acknowledge it basically i think what it was like was like what it's about is like how it melted down and what what it was like being there when it happened i gotta i gotta listen to that at some point i usually don't listen to much gaming content but that's like a first that's like a primary source good shit i gotta i gotta check that out for sure at some point um yeah anything else to say about this oh yeah i wanted to read this one inquiry here from nevitz he says hey sacred gents i've been watching season two of twisted metal and find myself enjoying it to my surprise most of the jokes are landing this season any update on a sacred symbols plus episode thanks i'll hang up and go make awkward mouth sounds with mr grim I'd like to get to it it's not off the table I just have to find time to watch it I'm sure it's good I thought the first season was good it would be no surprise that they refined it and made it even better the trailers made it look cool it's all about the tournament and whatever feels a little bit more twisted metal I agree with you Dustin that it's too bad that there isn't a twisted metal game to take advantage of a little bit of zeitgeist I mean it's not like anything on Peacock has too much zeitgeist but it probably could have been productive in both directions and I assume that the intention was to have that lucid game ready to go what i'll be curious about it with fallout is if they can get that fallout 3 remake going in you know what's going but you know out in time for another season of this year this series and taking advantage of that it's you got to be very careful with all that sort of thing yeah because that new season's out on in december i think so like only a couple more months yeah so yeah i don't oh yeah that's right so the season beyond that i assume because i think it was renewed already as i recall so anyway maybe yeah this broke while we were recording but i just wanted to acknowledge it that it looks like microsoft flight simulator is coming to playstation 5 we already knew this but uh because this was in other leaks but it seems like it might be more imminent so the website the gamer reports on a polish website this was originally on the games leaks and rumors subreddit ppe.pl the polish website shared a report according to the gamer that claims microsoft flight simulator 2024 is the next big xbox game that's coming over to playstation the report claims that someone shared the information that suggested microsoft flight simulator 2024 will be launching on ps5 in the coming weeks um and then it says here that there will be a new edition coming in november it's potential physical edition as well which wouldn't be a huge surprise for the playstation audience are you guys have any interest in this game this game is supposed to be sneaky good like uh it came to pc in 2020 xbox series x and s in 2021 i have no interest in it but it's supposed to be very good if you're into this sort of thing so and obviously flight simulator is like an ancient series it has a 91 on metacritic not so bad yeah i mean for the audience like i i tried i think i tried i tried a microsoft flight simulator game on on xbox because i think it came to game best i don't think i don't know if it was this one because i feel like my memory of the apartment that i was in was prior to this um what was the other one was it 2024 and then what was the one before that they didn't do a 2023 did they no flights the one the flight simulator that that that they're talking about is a 2020 game oh okay and i don't think i think they've just been updating this same base game because the series began in 82 but i think that they would release more annualized ones and then stopped kind of doing that and refining it it's made by a stop which is the uh yeah the studio that does uh play tale which is cool yeah very weird but um i think yeah i played a little bit of it it's cool i just you know i this is not it's novel and kind of interesting like i remember like i flew to like my my house in new york or whatever and i was like oh it's cool that you can do this and like the the 3d scans in the environment are kind of they're accurate enough to get some kind of novel but it felt like google earth to me though you know what i mean where it's just like yeah this is cool and it's i appreciate the detail here and i'm sure the tech to make this work is really impressive but like it's not doing anything for me i don't care about being a pilot dustin you're gonna fly around i played this when i had pc game pass at some point and it was cool it's actually crazy how in-depth it can be and seeing how they you know create recreated the cockpits of all these various planes and stuff like that i'm sure it would have a huge market on playstation i wonder if this is a tgs thing and i don't have any info on this but thinking about japan they've got like train otakus and stuff like that maybe they got plain otakus sure so maybe maybe this is something that would be big over there since they don't really have access to it other than on pc and they're they're not buying xboxes in japan so maybe it's a fitting announcement for that but um but yeah it's a little too in-depth for me um and yeah chris you mentioned google earth when i discovered google earth on pc vr i probably sat and checked that out for like three hours yeah it's it's a weirdly addicting like because you feel like you feel like a tiny god like flying around like where do i want to where do i want to go i can go anywhere it's crazy if you ever have the chance to play to try the google earth pc vr dude it's because you can like you go around you fly around and then you You just like raise your arm up and it's like you're looking around because it puts up the street view.

3:23:10So you can kind of check out anywhere you want in the world. It's a magical experience. I wonder. Yeah, I wonder how it would do on PlayStation and in Japan. I know the Japanese are very passionate about their planes. Hmm.

3:23:29Bunza!

3:23:35all right let's get into what we're playing i want to start with chris we'll start with the letter from hoya who says hey gay bitches been a late a listener since around beyond 200 and after 14 years of colin's voice playing blast beats on my eardrums i figured it was time to write in i finally got around to try skate in early access and as a big fan of the original games i must say my disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined they have defiled my beloved with the Fortnite treatment. Thoughts? Love from Norway. It says here you're playing skate as well as ballons. I don't want to hear about that, but talk to us about skate first.

3:24:10Yeah, well, Dustin's also playing skate too, so I'll probably bounce off of him too because I think I'm equally... I don't have a lot of skate experience, really. I was really like a Tony Hawk person, primarily. I think I tried skate the original back when that came out, and I was just so bad at it that I was like, I can't. Like, I just, I don't, I don't know what the fuck. This is too intimidating. I I'll do Tony Hawk. I'm fine. And so I was kind of always kind of intimidated by it. And this is free. It's on, I played it on steam on PC and I figured like, there's no real excuse not to try it.

3:24:44So I, I jumped in for a few hours, got my bearings with it. I don't know how I feel about it because there's parts of it that I really don't like. Like I don't, I don't like the art style, but like that to me doesn't really matter. like i don't know i i'm more about like give me a good sensation of skating and i don't really care how i look um the tutorialization is kind of annoying it's it's very like welcome to the land of skating press forward to go forward and it feels there's parts of it that feel very like what what the fuck why is the tone of this so nick jr it's very weird but then at the same time like i'm listening to the soundtrack i'm getting like oh i gotta get that on my playlist you know like that's a good song i want that let me shazam it real quick dude it hit me with turnstile immediately yeah turnstile hell yeah and i was like my stream uh when i turned on streamer mode it's still play turnstile but whatever yeah hey you know they're working they're ironing things out it's early access that gives them an excuse for it to be completely broken the um so yeah i don't know like there's a vibe thing that's kind of off with it like i think it's trying too hard to be accessible in some areas but then i i do feel like if they just kind of let that go i do feel like there is something kind of cool here it does feel generally good to skate i think you have a good amount of like options and control over your movement at first i felt kind of like oh i don't really know how to play this and i was still kind of getting used to it but like when you figure certain things out it's like oh i actually have a lot of flexibility here it's really you have so much control that it arguably ruins the game because like you could you've probably seen videos of people on twitter already doing it but like you can just roll as a person and like you could like sonic roll as a guy and like get insane speed and it's look that's that's bad in quotations however it is fun as fuck that like that you can do this dumb shit and it's it's completely immersion breaking you can climb like to the top tops of buildings and like skate down and to just break your face and then you're just back to normal i don't know i'm i'm having fun with it i think i like it but i think there's parts of it that like really bother me from like a tone perspective i don't really know like what i'm supposed to be doing like the there's there's an unclearness to like what the game is even going to allow you to do and i i would argue that there's certain like really important mechanics that the game doesn't tutorialize where you're like why don't you teach me this or that i can do this it almost feels like they've put together a sandbox and a physics engine and a game where it's like okay you're intended to do these things and we're going to teach you how to do these things but as a consequence of the in-depth physics model that you've built out there's actually a lot more stuff here that is kind of necessary to pull off like really cool tricks that you're not even aware of yet because you've built a game that is like more dynamic than you thought of and it almost feels like they're kind of catch up to what the game is in some way there's problems obviously i don't think i don't think you should you should necessarily be able to sonic roll although i think it's hilarious and i'm gonna be sad when it's removed uh if they ever do it um but i don't know i'm i'm mixed on it i i don't hate it nearly as much as a lot of people are saying they hate it but i could see if you were a fan of the original skate and the more like i don't want to say no grounded might be the right term and the more grounded kind of feel of it i could see why this would be kind of disappointing but i'm having fun just kind of ragdolling around and and breaking my face on railings i don't know it's kind of fun but i don't know what i want to know thanks we can bounce back and forth here um so i played skate for a little under two hours and you can watch the stream replay on my channel if you'd like i was finding chris that i was more drawn to the weird parkour physics stuff than the actual skateboarding of this game of course you mentioned the rolling but there's even like missions in the game where it's not even focused on skating like there's this part where it wants you to jump off of a building and then like swan dive through a bridge which was kind of cool and so i was having a lot of fun like can i roll off this building and then swan dive and then glide like almost like slide to this other part uh so yeah the physics stuff that they built is really cool um but i wonder if they'll take out you know particularly the egregious rolling it's my i'm like you chris in that i didn't grow up playing skate i played a demo and i think i had the exact same experience as you i was like uh i don't i don't get this so i was really trying to like learn and there were times where i'm like man i can't tell if i am bad at this or if this game is jank i think the answer is probably both in this new version of skate right um i'm glad you mentioned the the feeling of it and it's funny because with tony hawk it's very clearly like they the developers of tony hawk understand skate culture like what skateboard culture is like the feeling of it and sure it's maybe it's a little more commercial version of that but then when you play skate you're like this sounds like it was designed in a boardroom that has observed skate culture uh purely so something about the the feeling is a little off there for sure i think it's cool that what you get from the free version of it is pretty good um it's uh like i i didn't look too much into like the founder's pass or like the microtransactions but like if you don't really care about your the way you look or this stuff like that it's like there's a lot there for you to play so i had an okay time with it i'm not sure i'm compelled to really go back until maybe like a 1.0 version of it might need to go in and do a few more sonic roles though yeah at some point um i was joking in the stream like i remember years ago uh when it was like kind of a skate versus tony hawk people like well skates a lot more realistic i was like yeah skates a lot more realistic as i'm like rolling and bouncing around i'm watching a video of it it's ridiculous oh yeah i put some in the chat so colin could see because it's it's it's undoubtedly fun to do it but yeah i think i'm kind of i think i'll probably try it a little bit more because i do want to understand a little bit more about it i feel like there's stuff i'm not quite getting so i'll probably go back to it but maybe for 1.0 i i just feel like man the tone is i hate the tutorial voice and just like this handholdy kind of i don't know it's it's it's very condescending or infantilizing and then once that's over with you've got a fun kind of physics sandbox to fuck around with but like it's that's a it put me off immediately like i had like a scowl when i was like ah i don't know why you're talking to me like this you're talking to me like a fucking like a dog basically sit this is how you sit press the action button all right but outside of skate i've been playing borderlands borderlands 4 and um i'll i'll say what i like about it first because i i have there's there's a lot to say about what's wrong um i i genuinely think borderlands 4 as as as a piece of software as a game that is designed for you to play is very good i think it feels fantastic i think it's easily the best that borderlands has ever felt to play like by orders of magnitudes granted i have not played tiny tina's i have not played like the pre-sequel or whatever but like my most recent um foray into the stuff was borderlands 3 and from what i recall from borderlands 3 to this I think it feels much better to move around I think it feels much better to shoot I think everything feels like a substantial improvement from previous Borderlands as far as like movement and jumping and traversal and all that stuff it's all really good I think the you know the gunplay itself feels really good I think the weapons that you get are so fun to like build a character around it's really it's got it you know It feels a lot.

3:33:44It's weird. Like, it feels more like Destiny than... I would say it's like it feels like 65-70 % Destiny, 30 % 40 % Borderlands. You know, like, it feels like it leans a little bit more into the Destiny thing. But I think it's good that it does. Because I think it just plays better for it. The story is... Or the writing so far has been pretty good. If, in my opinion, a little bit too reactive. to some of the criticism i think i think they saw a lot of the pushback from borderlands 3 and tiny tina and and maybe concluded and i i think they walked away with the wrong lessons i think borderlands should feel a little cringy in some way i think it should feel a little bit like wink wink nudge nudge i do i do think that's kind of part of the charm it makes it feel like distinct from other games and even if that's like annoying or grating which it is in some cases in some games certainly it is kind of what gives it the vibe that i'm playing a borderlands game and i feel like they've toned it down substantially here to the point where like it arguably doesn't feel much like a borderlands game and even to the point where like to the way it looks like it's cel-shaded but it's also like really deeply detailed to the point where like it doesn't even look like a borderlands game even really particularly but none of that is bad you know what i mean it's it's hard to describe it almost reminds me of um it's how i feel about halo 5 where i'm like i don't know if this is necessarily hey like a borderlands i don't know if this is necessarily what i wanted but it is there's parts of it that are better and it is it does play really really well and so i don't mind it but at the same time i don't feel i don't feel the the hit that i was expecting to feel when jumping into new into a new borderlands game i feel more like i'm playing like a really really good um looter shooter or i'm playing like oh i'm playing an evolution of destiny with some borderlands flavor around it because borderlands 3 like the main issue with borderlands 3 was really the villains you know in my opinion i didn't really mind like characters breaking the fourth wall or being annoying like that's fine to me the villains being like streamer characters that was dumb and like that would that felt a little too like this don't do this like this is this is a bridge too far for some i don't know why it just felt wrong it felt awkward it felt forced and in tiny tina i would only presume that the people who had an issue with that game as far as like the writing goes it's because you had a character that's supposed to be there in small doses making up a large majority of what this story content of the game is like having that character be the main character is like a recipe for disaster but it doesn't mean i don't want those characters and i think they're still there but i think again they've pulled back a lot but it's still very good but man uh i so borderlands 4 has crashed for me i think maybe and i'm playing on pc for transparency because i want to i'd like to stream it but it's crashed for me i think upwards of 10 times now and it's like that's frustrating especially because the game is good you know what i mean it would be one thing if this was like ride to hell retribution or something and i was just like oh it crashed three times in a row big deal all right i'm big i guess i'm done what's frustrating is that like i want to play more borderlands and i'm thinking about it all the time i'm thinking about my build i'm thinking about my character i'm thinking about like oh i uh what what loadout do i want to go into the next thing with it's so fun to to play in this world it's so fun to traverse this world but then it's like you know you're yanked out of it and i'm playing by the way on like medium settings on my 3080 with like you know i don't I don't have like a super modern like souped up rig, but I have far from like a, like a clunker, you know?

3:38:00So for it to crash this much on performance mode with medium settings everywhere, I'm getting like, I'm getting 60 frames or like, you know, 55, 60 frames pretty consistently. And it's like, you know, it's, it's annoying that it's not consistent, but it's high enough that it's fine. But like these crashes are really, really egregious. Like it's, it's kind of unacceptable. Um, um, And I don't know, man. There's other minor things. I think the UI is a little bit lame because it just kind of feels very generic when you're going through it. It doesn't feel like... Again, there's a lot of Borderlands identity issues here that a lot of players probably are going to have a weird feeling about.

3:38:41But to wrap it up, the game is very good. It plays very well. I think it's written fairly well. I think the characters are fairly compelling. I think the classes are really cool. I think the build crafting that you can do is really, really dope. And I think co-op, as always, is fun. I don't know if I like the open world necessarily, but I don't I don't dislike it either. I'm kind of apathetic about it. I think I prefer the zone approach, but like it's fine. It's just really the performance here is just staggeringly bad. And I just I don't understand how. Like, I think genuinely launch cyberpunk crashed fewer times for me.

3:39:21which is not good that's not something that's that's not good for that's not good for anybody so i don't know i'm at a crossroads with borderlands 4 like i'm i feel i have complicated feelings about it because it is i do think about playing it all the time and i'm like really into it but like man what it's just a completely unstable piece of software and that's a real that's a bummer because it does a disservice to something that i think is actually really impressive it's easily the best borderlands since borderlands 2 easily i don't even think it's like a there's a debate to be had there it might it might even in some places be better and so for that to be true and also it's the most any games ever crashed on me ever outside of like cyberpunk and maybe no man's sky on the day it came out that's that's egregious yeah it's too bad uh yeah because I'm going to get to it at some point.

3:40:16I'm not going to play it anytime soon. I want to play it, but I like Borderlands. But yeah, it's too bad that technically we said earlier in the show, the technical issues. Very strange. I'm glad that it's fun to play and it looks cool. I mean, what I've seen of it, it looks like a lot of fun. So there's a good game there. It's not like it's more of a cyberpunk situation than. Oh, my God. What was that other game that came out that was like completely fucked, but there was nothing redeeming underneath it? I feel like that happened recently. but like it's it's it's more of cyberpunk than it is anything else like there is something really good there and i if i were recommending it to you i would say i recommend it to you but i would say wait is it my side oh yeah my tie i already forgot but uh yeah like they they can't fix mine's eye you know like there's nothing like that game has performance issues and it's like there's nothing underneath it um but like this is very very fucking good i would just say hold off wait for some stability wait for some patches hopefully they fix it i mean i know unreal engine 5 has a unreal engine 5 games have a tendency to go unfixed forever for whatever reason but like hopefully borderlands 4 it being a sequel instead of like a remake of something old puts a little bit more pressure on on the studio to really address it um and iron it out because there's a great game there man and it's a it would be a shame to just throw that out dustin let's go to you yeah says you're playing hell is us i want to hear about that first and then chronos because we can talk about that together so take it away right so uh yeah i finished hell is us and my thoughts largely are the same as uh last week when i talked about it if you didn't hear that it's really cool conceptually where they there's no map uh there's very loose guidelines on what to do unfortunately at certain points the game um has the appearance of being way more open than it actually is which is a little disappointing i think i mentioned the example where i was in a town and they kept talking about uh this all this treasure that was underneath the chapel nearby and i was like oh this sounds kind of cool i'm gonna go check out the chapel i get there and they're like no we're not letting you in here it turns out that whole chapel part was for later in the storyline i was like ah well that kind of teased me here yeah so it's it's not like an it's open and that there are side quests and things that you can do that are separate but it's not like an rpg an open rpg type situation still pretty linear with some small side quests upon finishing the game I guess to keep it really light just because I still recommend it but the ending is not satisfying like it feels like it ends right as the game is really starting to cook in terms of its story to the point where it's like what like really this this is the final shot here are you serious so a little disappointing for that I really really hope they do a sequel I hope that the sales are high enough because a lot of the ideas that they're doing are so cool and so unique uh i'd love to see them take a second crack at it combat it gets really repetitive at certain points but it's never bad so hell is us you're looking for something different something a little unique you like puzzles um go for it at certain points the puzzles can be a bit much i'll say that too uh if so if you're really into puzzles which i'm like i'm into puzzle games but it's not like my my thing there were certain points at the end where i'd be like i like sigh of relief i figured out this puzzle and i'm immediately presented with another one i'm like oh i'm just gonna look it up like i just can't i don't have the brain power to do this uh and with the cadence of games coming out right now it's like i'm just gonna i'm just gonna look it up because it's not really gonna take away from my satisfaction of the game so hell is us pretty cool i recommend it with the stipulations chronos i really don't have very much to say i started it last night i got about i don't know 40 minutes in i'm very confused uh but i like the way the game is presented at the beginning pretty dark the thing that's i guess it's not surprising but how much this game is like oh yeah this is uh a lot like silent hill 2 remake uh being i mean And of course, it's a bloomer team game, but it plays so far similar.

3:44:56But Colin, you put in a lot more time than me, so I think you've got a lot more authority. I can speak on it next week. Yeah. So and the only other game I'm playing is everybody's golf hot shots, which I'm playing on the side. I have nothing else to say about it, really. I'm just kind of unlocking everything. It's you're either going to like it or you're not. I don't know how much more time I'm going to put into it, but there's that. Is it still broken? No, it seems like it's better, but it was always the weird thing about it was it always seemed like it was working fine on my ps5 pro downstairs it was the ps5 up here that was totally fucked up so i was playing on my portal and stuff it was weird but everything seems to be okay now um i'll keep you guys a prize if that changes um so chronos yeah i've i've put in i don't know how many hours i put into chronos 10 maybe something like that the psn says i'm i'm halfway through it and uh mitcher rope go wrote into us and said colin i'm lucky enough to be on your friends list and i've been creeping so how are you liking chronos i don't like to categorize it as a sleeper hit for me since it's right up my alley in the survival horror genre, but goddamn, I'm absolutely loving it.

3:45:51And I'm working my way towards the plat and new game plus high level thoughts so far. Any of the other guys can chime in too, if they played it. Thanks fellas. So yeah, I'm happy to talk about it. I think it's great. Um, and I think it starts a little slow. It's, it's, it's funny to have, um, to have Bloober working on this game and releasing this game and kind of having made Silent Hill 2 concurrently, probably with other team members, obviously, but they're somewhat similar in that they're eerie, lonely games where there's very few people in them and you are alone with your thoughts and there's some interaction and you'll meet the occasional character, but it's really a somber sort of thing.

3:46:39Honestly, it is Dead Space meets singularity, which I find pretty interesting. There's an entire mechanic. There's a series of mechanics in the game. I won't get into all of them, but there's a major mechanic where you can mess with matter. If passageway or a bridge is broken, you can zap it and it'll become a hole again. It's just like singularity. In singularity, it was... And singularity, of course, is the 2010 PS3 FPS from Raven. where you would turn time back and forth. So it's a similar sort of thing in that regard. It's not nearly as mechanical as Singularity was in that you're not doing that as often, but that's what it reminded me of.

3:47:24The other thing that it reminds me of Singularity is that it takes place in the Soviet Union. It takes place in Poland specifically, so not in a Russian part of the Soviet Union. It takes place in 1980, I think, in the game. And in that regard, it reminds me of Singularity too, in that that was a very Soviet kind of Russian weird game.

3:47:46I highly recommend it. If you like Dead Space specifically, I think you're going to really like Kronos. I'm not entirely sure what it's even about still. I'm reading it and I'm figuring it out. Now, Dustin, I could be wrong about this, but is the voice actress the same as Selina's voice actress in, if you can look this up, in Returnal? Because this is something worth noting. I think it kind of has to be the same person. I'd be surprised if it wasn't. Did you find any information? Uh, I searched Cronos, but it's given me Hades. So I need another second. Cronos, the new Don voice actor. No, I don't want to try AI mode.

3:48:28All right. I found it. Yeah. So it's, it's, uh, Jane Penny is the woman. She's not listed here in. Oh, Jane. Is it Jane Perry? I'm sorry. Jane Perry.

3:48:43oh yeah okay so it is her so this is a major issue i think in that the inflection of the character is identical to selena she sounds like selena and if you played if you played Returnal, you're going to be hard pressed not to think of Selena a lot. It's strange. It was that that is a strange casting choice, in my opinion. And it's distracting. Now, it won't be distracting for those that didn't play Returnal, but you're talking about two single player sci-fi shooters that are going to attract similar audiences. I'm not saying there's going to be massive overlap, but there's going to be overlap of thousands of people that are going to hear this game.

3:49:32And I don't know why they did that particular casting choice. I just think it's strange. So there is that complaint. But there's a real robustness to the mechanics in the game. You get different weapons. You have limited resources, very limited resources. And you have limited storage space on you. and there's these little save rooms where you can stash things and you're burning bodies. One of the major mechanics is that you have to burn bodies that you kill or you risk those bodies being used by other enemies and they can vacuum them up and become stronger versions of themselves. Since you're backtracking a lot and you only have a certain amount of fuel to use to light them on fire, you're trying to figure out, should I even waste this fire here?

3:50:20Am I going to come back to this place and wake up and these guys are going to be woken back up? It's pretty interesting. it's easy enough to manipulate and there's a lot of backtracking in the game because you can basically just kind of harvest fire from your or like fuel from your save room and then just go and burn things or whatever so if you're like really meticulous and willing to kind of go through annoying backtracking you can make the game a little simpler for yourself but so far so good i think this is a really cool game it seems like it is falling through the cracks and that's a shame but uh i i really do highly recommend it i'll have more to say about it and dustin since you're playing maybe we can do even a review discussion on it that would be cool yeah if you get if you choose to play it through all the way because i i like it a lot and i'm definitely gonna play it in new game plus because you're you have a suit that you upgrade you have all these weapons that you upgrade you have there's currency there are items that you find that you can use to make like healing items and bullets and stuff there's all these permutations so drawing forward a fully strengthened character into a new game plus would probably be a lot of fun especially if you're playing it on hard which you'd have to do for the platinum so yeah chronos shout out to chronos i'm I'm a blooper believer now.

3:51:24Yeah, they've, they're, they're in a whole nother era now of what they're doing. And I'm proud of them for turning it around. It's great. It's great stuff. Real quick, back to the, the voice actor, just to save you. Moby game says it's Kelly Burke is the traveler who is not the same as the voice actor for.

3:51:49So internal. Yeah, it's interesting because I believe you Google Gemini says Jane Perry provide provided the voice for the titular character Jane in the new horror game Kronos the new dawn she is a Canadian so this is like a hallucination I guess yeah I don't know it sounds just like I mean it sounds like her 100 % so weird performance in that case I'll be very interested you didn't hear that when you were playing the game um no that's interesting i can't like i hear it on a concept i'll be very interested to see if anyone else hears that i assume they do i mean in googling around about a lot of people are asking that so from to be fair yeah i mean i don't i've i've seen some of the some gameplay of it and i've heard the character speak i don't know if i didn't make a connection with that either but i i also think that really stems from the fact that when i was playing returnal i i really i was so clued I was so focused on the core gameplay of that game that like I just anytime like you were in the house with the astronaut shit or I don't know what any of this is I'm going to go back to it I think when like when we get closer to Saros when we find out that'll probably come out next year like when we find out when that's going to be positioned I'll probably get right into that by the way that reminds me I need to ask you guys before we go into the final inquiries so I'm going to I want to play Ghost of Tsushima director's cut and I'll probably move on to that after chronos i went to go buy it because so i own it digitally on ps4 am i wrong and that is a 30 upgrade if you own the original game 30 i think it's because it includes the new dlc that you haven't purchased yeah which is oh yeah i just felt like i would assume that i mean i don't mind paying this upgrade fee i know a lot of people have a problem with even any upgrade fee and there are a lot of games that charge and a lot of games that don't but 30 dollars seemed i was like really yeah that must be like the that must be like the itchy island yeah yeah that's what doesn't say and i think that's probably true and legends was added although that was a free update and there's i'm not but i don't want to balk at it from a because i can't afford it as much as i'm blocking at it because i feel like i question the value proposition i'm like i'm a little pissed about this but i guess i'll just grin and bear it from base ps4 to ps5 director's cut is 29.99 since you're not coming if you had the director's cut on PS4 it would be a$10 upgrade because the director's cut is the that DLC I never finish it but it is pretty substantial yeah I'll do it I'm going to do it but it seemed because I remember when I was like I thought these were like$10 in my mind but I guess not oh right right it's not including a giant DLC right you're right yeah right right right right right um so that's probably what i'll be moving into next after chronos and and it's getting a little complicated because it'll probably go from chronos to for big games chronos to um to ghost to ghost 2 and then who knows beyond that i'm probably gonna miss silent hill right away because of that so i'll have to get back to that and i think the next game I'm going to queue up on my portal for like football and when hockey starts, whatever is the trails game that comes out actually the day that this podcast goes live.

3:55:10I'm really looking at that game. Looks cool. It looks really good. I think it's scored really, really well. Yeah, I read push squares review and they liked it. I didn't see the the Metacritic score for it, though. 91 on open critic. Yeah, that's big. Listen, this is because trails fans are the ones reviewing the trails. Yeah, right, right, right, right. That's true. That's true. I'm throwing it out there no i think you're probably right i think you're actually you're probably that's there's a there's a bias towards yeah because you got exactly you're gonna have to find the nerd on your staff or like in your freelance pool i would be curious and i mean this legitimate i'm not trying to i mean i'm not trying to poo poo trails fans right now and other times maybe but i'd be curious about a review from someone who has never played a trails game since this is the beginning, right?

3:55:58This is a remake of It's a virginal game. So that would be interesting to me. Maybe the demo the demo converts like your save over to the main game. So that might be a good way for me to check it out at some point. But I don't know. I don't know if I want to I'm a part of enough annoying fan bases. I don't know if I need to be a part of another. You really are. You really are. Yeah. I mean, you could play it by ear. See how you feel. Yeah. yeah i think i'm gonna pick it up immediately though i'm kind of looking forward to something like that i think it'll be a good companion i'm kind of over i want to say over hot shots golf it's just that it's it's just the same thing over and over again like golf is like anything is but if you don't have like a desire to unlock all the characters and unlock all the courses it's like just playing 18 holes over and over again very rarely losing ever and it's like what is the I'm curious because there are so many characters in the game.

3:56:52It's crazy. There's almost a Smash Brothers like stage select screen. Damn, dude. I play this game a lot and there's a lot of characters I haven't unlocked. A lot. Most of them. So out of that level of curiosity, who's playing this this deeply? This is crazy. But to each their own. Okay. Let's get into listener inquiries and wrap this show up. We usually have six questions, comments, concerns, thoughts, and ideas from the audience. We have five this time because we read one earlier in the show, as you might recall. So, of course, if you support us on Patreon, patreon.com slash last day media, you get a bunch of different perks early at free access, the ability to access sacred symbols, plus discord, RSS, all the rest.

3:57:31You can also submit your inquiries on the thread in the news feed for the show and every show we do in our network. Keep an eye out for those threads because we delete them when we don't need them. They're usually up for about a day before we delete them. Our threads for this show, sacred symbols usually go up Wednesday afternoons and are deleted Thursday around noon Eastern time. We begin with Jordan Ray, who says, Sup, fellas. Not too long ago, GQ released their list of the top 100 greatest video games of all time. Colin at the time was rather critical of the list that resulted and took umbrage with the methodology used.

3:58:01I, however, must contest. The list turned out surprisingly good. Sure, 2017 got way too much attention, but overall it was diverse in genre and featured a list of both console and PC classics. Colin, I challenge you and the network itself, come up with your own methodology and criteria, and for the love of God, define best versus greatest. Just do the polling, crunch the numbers and whatever you do. Don't stop the count. Have a good one. Wanted to read this because I was curious. Do you think this would be possible? In a way, it's anything's possible, I guess. But I think to be able to do a list like this holistically, you need to spread the field fairly wide.

3:58:37but you need to have people you trust and know what they're talking about. and then you I think it's fairly basic from there I really think you make a each person would make a list of a hundred and then attach numbers declining from that number so number one would get a hundred points number two would get 99 number three would get 98 and so on and you would just throw them all in a math equation and that's how you'd come up with the top 100 list I think that that's part the trivial part it's about who you're drawing from and I am personally not capable of making that list. Like it's not, it would not be a fair list, I guess is what I'm saying.

3:59:15It would be a list through my own eyes. My top 100. And could I do a top 100 list of my own games? Yeah, I would be really hard. I would have to really think about it and like write things down and like ponder on it. I would be missing something. I would figure out I was missing something later. It would piss me the fuck off. So it would be, but it would be a fun exercise to try to do it. But I was thinking about our own group and I just don't even think we have the appropriate people to really holistically represent the industry as it is. Like we would need to spread the field probably multiple times more than we have.

3:59:45Like I'm thinking like 50 people, something like that, where you really were getting crossover and there was a lot of Venn diagrams developing, but you made sure you had every little niche and corner covered fairly so that nothing slipped through the cracks. Chris, do you think this is a project we could undertake at some point? i don't know man that sounds like a lot because to me i think i i feel so strongly about these things because i'm like i haven't i haven't seen the list of that that the question is referencing um or at least if i did i don't remember it i don't remember this either by the way but i'm just using it as the basis for a question yeah yeah no i i um i don't know man i feel like i would see something that would like trigger me or something i feel like i would see like madden in there and i'd be like what no we can't be doing this but then somebody would argue like well why not and i'm just like because that would that would be that would be my genuine argument i don't know i i i feel like just doing this alone or doing this with like it would be such an undertaking and to what end to get like some i feel like by the end of getting a list between like everybody here at last stand everybody and attaching number values to it we would end up with a list that i feel like no one's happy with yeah you know what i mean like even and then the audience wouldn't be happy with i that's how i feel like it would ultimately shake up so like i don't i actually think the only interesting thing to do is like lists of of personal games because there's actually like a conversation to be had there and it is like an interesting window into what people value as individual.

4:01:18I think that's more interesting and more worth it than this aggregated, mathematical, compiled, data-driven list of 100 things that we all choose and then it gets run through a filter and then we end up with what... What would be number one for this group here? I can't even... I don't even know because it's what are you saying? Like, I'd have to quantify like what we're talking about, like the best or the, like my favorite, the greatest. I don't know. Cause those, those mean very different things. You know, I think the, the best game, the thing, the game that I think is the best game ever created is not my favorite game.

4:02:04It's really like, it might, it might, I wouldn't say it's not even close. It is pretty close, but you know, I think Tetris is like perfect. I genuinely say, i genuinely said that i'm i genuinely don't think tetra i think tetris is a perfect video game i don't think there's anything you can do to it to make it better in fact i think all you can do to it would would probably make it worse as far as like making a change to it like tetris effect is the same thing it's just it's fundamentally the same it's perfect but it's not my favorite game it's not my favorite game you know so like i i don't know even even just the the terminology of the list would have to be ironed out and very clearly defined.

4:02:44And at that point, like, do you care what people do you care what people think is the best game versus their favorite? I feel like favorite is more interesting. Yeah, I agree. And yeah, the subjectivity is more exciting than than even trying to have some sort of objective barometer. Like I am looking at the GQ list. I'll put it in the chat. I do have a very visceral reaction to reading it where I'm like, this list is bad, in my opinion. But like Outer Wilds is the 30th best video game ever. Are you fucking kidding me? come on man uh i'm not trying to insult out but let's be serious i do remember this uh any thoughts you want to share yeah it would if we made our own list we would really just have to quantify like are we trying to make which which first of all i think if we were to do this let's start with like 25 before on because when you get to 100 it's like what's the difference between 72 and 71 right you know like i just find a list of 100 not really that interesting because people just scroll down to see what the top are and we would have to quantify like greatest versus favorite i think it would be way more interesting for last stand and we tried to collectively say like what is our of our favorite games the of our personal preferences what would a top 25 list look like but i think it would come down to like chris said where it's like we would all probably be slightly unhappy i mean we did the top ps4 games for sacred 200 right oh that's right yeah and uh i mean i think we're all happy with like the top two like red dead was number one spoilers for our own content from three years ago or whatever but because like i think i i ranked a near game really high and you guys were like what the fuck because it ended up really high because of that influence so i'm looking at this list now number one legend of zelda breath of the wild i mean that's just a it's a horrible choice in my opinion but and it's not because i i disrespect the game it's just like that's not the best game ever made like you gotta take your wins with your losses last of us number two yeah i would even put the last one's part two above that but but the again it is all subjective and embracing them leaning into the subjectivity is fun it would be cool for us to do those kinds of lists.

4:05:01I participated in doing many of these lists when I was at IGN, so I know how difficult it is and how you have to make compromises. The one I remember the most is the top 100 NES games, which was so fun to do. And what was fun about that is that there's fewer than 1 ,000 NES games, so a lot of shits on that list. When you're getting into this sort of thing, it becomes an almost impossible task. Yeah. Whatever. So maybe something, maybe an exercise we'll pursue in some way in the future, but we'll see. All right. Rube Rupak wrote in and said, could the PS6 be cartridge based? In a recent Sacred Symbols Plus, you guys pontificated on how physical media and disks can work with the PS6.

4:05:37And I think a solution could be cartridges. The PS6 can have a plug-in USB disk drive for older games and backwards compatibility. And the drive can plug in the dock for handheld too. And the system itself can take a new proprietary cartridge system that's flash based for fast access and can come in a variety, varying capacity for storage needs. Got to use some punctuation here. We need a period at some point. Sony can make a tiny new card they own and control. God knows Sony loves their own proprietary media formats and every other Sony handheld has tried a new media format. Why is this one different?

4:06:04UMD walked so UMC could run. They can release movies and show shows on it too. Plus Sony can resell old games again and print money from us nerds. Not at all can sell the last of us part one cartridge edition. Nintendo went from discs to cartridges and that worked out pretty nicely for them. Cyberpunk is moving heavy units on cartridges. So that's money Sony can make by releasing everything old on cartridges. Again, one banger per month. Ruble right in again next week. Please look forward to it. Dustin, I was curious, especially what you thought about this like what stops sony from using a card-based proprietary system like is it just i mean it must be cost but it's money yeah 100 i think it's funny that rube in here says like oh nintendo switch back to cartridges worked out well for them uh absolutely fucking not if you look around right now at the state of switch to physical with the game key cards my thought on it not that i've done extensive research but from from reading different things is that the main problem with the cartridges is that they are expensive particularly now they require a certain level of read and write speed and that is i don't want to say infinitely because it's not technically true but they are it is so much more expensive than a disc so much more and that's the main problem is that developers do have the option on switch to to put their game on a 64 gigabyte cartridge but it eats into so much of the cost of producing a physical that they're just not doing it i people are really pointing the the finger at nintendo on this for the game keys card situation but they're kind of in a mess because of the price of the physical media of the cartridges so high that it's like we don't want to have to charge developers this high amount for a 64 gig gig cart what do we do if they want to have a physical version and that's why the game key card exists so playstation games being overall much larger than switch games this would be an absolute mess uh and would never happen that they would do this so it's it's a fun thought uh and it would especially be cool i guess from the idea of like a cartridge in your playstation 6 that could then be put in your playstation 6 handheld i understand that but feasibly just there's no way being adult by digital games for christ's sake and then you don't have to have that that that problem but but uh yeah rube he says you're gonna write in again next week don't we're we're we're putting you away for a month we'll see you in october this is a total side note i noticed colin when you when you tweeted about keeping chris on the show whoever did that deleted their twitter account really i just thought of deleting i was gonna say rube delete your twitter but when i went to that tweet it said their account i was like dude that's a that's a calling classic yeah deleting the twitter yeah that's awesome that's i didn't even notice that i didn't go back yeah oh yeah was it like turtle fascist or something turtle fascist yeah this post is from an account that no longer exists so yeah that's another one strikes again yeah i really lost the uh the respective uh turtle fascist all right sorry excuse me Excuse me.

4:09:18Bless you. All right. Mark. Thank you. Mark Byrne wrote in and said, howdy, boys. I know we're a few years away from PSX, PS6 being a reality, but I'd like to pose a question about what titles do you believe could be day one launch games for the console? The obvious answer is a Bloodborne Bluepoint remake, but I've also been thinking about a potential motor storm revival, maybe a new Astro Bot to flex the console's muscles. Or is this question perhaps a bit too far out to pose? What say you? I'll tuck myself into bed so tight that my lungs are squeezed within an inch of collapse. and listen. Thank you, Mark, for writing in.

4:09:47This is going to be, I mean, I think this is a relevant question in that I think that internally it is not known, but they are aiming towards certain games probably being launch games. What I'm most curious about is will there be proprietary PS6 games at all? I assume yes. The reason I ask that, though, is because there are so few of them now. We're getting them more, you know, as time has gone on, but think about Horizon, think about God of War. These different games that I think could have migrated or been exclusive, but stayed in the past and how much money was made on those games. And I wonder if Sony is willing to invest true money in real exclusive games anymore when I imagine PS5 will still be alive and well when the PS6 comes out.

4:10:32So I think that that's some sort of mitigating factor. Astro Bot would be cool, but what I imagine PS6 will have is an Astro Bot built in game and which seems to be becoming somewhat of a trend. and I think that that would be pretty neat. Motorstorm, I don't think, I mean, first of all, Evolution doesn't exist anymore and Motorstorm has no, I mean, not that they need Evolution to make Motorstorm, but I don't think Motorstorm has any real cachet anymore. It was big for a while in the PS3 era. Probably some unknown stuff. I mean, maybe the Third Horizon game will be a cross-platform game. Maybe Spider-Man 3, like we were saying earlier, could be something, but I just, I really, it's hard for me to answer this, Dustin, because I don't know where their mind is at in terms of what that what exclusivity means anymore they didn't seem so concerned about it uh this time around it seemed like what the games demanded is where it went not what the market necessarily demanded which is different right usually you would hold things back to make people move on to the new console i don't know if they're going to do that this time yeah first of all mark i don't i don't really like you mentioning bloodborne blueprint remake I don't want to think about that.

4:11:40I don't want to get my hopes up for something like that. That would be absolutely incredible. And if it was a true PlayStation 6 exclusive, that would move some units. Yeah. I mean, Bloodborne FromSoft would be cool. I mean, not even getting Bluepoint involved if it's like FromSoft themselves just did it. Right. I think, Colin, though, you mentioned Horizon 3. i could see that in the timeline of where things are um i could see that being a possibility but you are right that it's like what is what does it really mean for it's something to be an exclusive playstation 6 game especially now the biggest difference is that ps4 we talked about this a few weeks ago with its mechanical hard drive that's like the main thing holding it back and so there you know for PlayStation 6 it's still going to run off NVMe storage and it could be faster potentially but the barrier even is going to be even lower for something to be cross gen so it's hard to say but I'm just trying to think like God of War yeah maybe I mean new things would be nice but I I guess where I'm wondering Chris like let's get you on board here and talk about this is not to treat it too PC-like, but is it a possibility that they release games where it's like it is PC-like, where it's PS5, PS5 Pro, PS6, PS6 handheld, and there's different...

4:13:13They're going to work differently depending on the console you put it in, and you're going to have those kinds of releases because it just seems... They've had such a hard time of getting people to move off of PS4. I assume it's going to be even worse with the PS5. So what are your thoughts here on potential launch games? yeah I think I'm kind of of the mind I'm kind of of the mind that we're in an era now where like exclusivity as far as a machine matters less than exclusivity as it means for a platform and I feel like I don't know if you'll really see true PS 6 games in the sense that we're used to seeing like I feel like there's a pretty high likelihood that we get the PS 6 and we don't even have something like a like a what is it a demon souls remake you know what i mean like maybe it's just straight up like no this is just um this is on playstation and that's how we're going to and that's how we're going to treat it just because i don't know what these but the budgets to make these things are skyrocketing there's more and more money being demanded of these things uh we're seeing multi platform initiatives because of that uh i mean not necessarily just because of that but certainly that's a key part of the ingredient here or a key ingredient in this mess and so like if you're seeing how difficult it is like you said to pull people off of ps4 to get them onto ps5 you're going to you're clearly making a new machine because you want to keep making more stuff but like what i don't know i i just i just don't know what the point would be at that point to to lock things to hardware when you could just make a lot more money i think the issue with ps4 to ps5 was that we that was still like a new idea like we were still very much in in the throes of like you know deciding whether or not generations meant anything and even playstation said like you know it's like we believe in generations and that turned out not to be true at all you know they actually i think ended up you know poor like we actually ended up going backwards with some games there were some games that were that were ported backwards to uh ps4 and so with that understanding you know with the understanding that the 2020 like we believe in generations was more of like i feel like that was more of a state that was a statement made more from a place of like inertia from previous generations and what we would expect as opposed to what the realities are in front of us which is that game budgets are fucking expensive the economy is really rough um and may maybe that way for a while so like and people are already used to this idea that like oh yeah well things yeah ps4 ps5 whatever things are coming to both like i think the strategy now is just to keep people in the playstation ecosystem and less about like they want you to move to the new machine and i'm sure they'll have all sorts of reasons for you to do that and maybe you'll have something like an astrobot or maybe you'll have something like um like a tech demo to really like push people into getting new hardware hardware and getting getting those upgrades but i think the key distinct distinguishing factor here is going to be that that portability angle or like that or like the rumored you know um docking capability or like or whatever they're talking about that's going to transform the way your relationship is with your machine as it stands now which is a box in your living room that is always only ever there to now like now it's more flexible now you can take its places now it's more um customizable as far as like how you want things to run and things like that and i think that's going to get that's going to be the replacement for i think exclusive software at least until you know there comes a point where we do get you know ps6 games that are not on ps5 presumably in like what 2036 20 i don't know but maybe not that late but well hopefully not that late no no i i would say early 2030s though for sure like 20 like 20 yeah like i think 20 i think 2031 or 2030 maybe is like when you'd see when you'd start to see games that are like ps6 only like or at least like reliably and even that i think is fairly like optimistic based on like how things are going now like i mean bro i can't believe that we're putting stuff out for ps4 still yeah like i don't know They're in a bind just in that I kind of wonder where their heads are at.

4:17:41Like PS5 is doing well. There's two ways to go about this. And one would be a very different sort of way to go about it with console gaming, which is to embrace the optionality of moving on. That optionality was always built in, but it was from the NES to the SNES master system in the Genesis, all that stuff. But even from like old Atari hardware. but the idea was that for most of the most of these pieces of hardware like you couldn't play the one game on the next you would have to move on so you'd have the old games or the new games but there was very rarely mixing up you had some like third party and licensed games that would be created on multiple platforms they would make the shitty game boy version and yeah now i wonder if if they're just like listen the ps6 truly is optional we're making a shit ton of money on PS5.

4:18:27We don't make, and I'm saying from Sony, it's like we, from their perspective, it's like, we don't really, we make money on hardware, but we make money on hardware by you spending money on the games on the hardware. If we eschew the whole hardware thing, the PS5 becomes way cheaper to make and people still buy them by the millions. I guess that's good with us. And if you want to move on to the PS6, then that's also good with us, but we want to make the whole gamut of games available to everyone, it just seems like that's the direction that's going in. I don't know if that's really true or not.

4:19:01I don't know if that's the move, especially with the backwards compatibility of all the platforms, but I just suspect, and by the way, and this is something that Moorzla keeps saying, is it's an urgent thing behind the scenes to keep the price low, because I think they realize full well that people are not going to want to buy this thing. There's not. I think this is going to be a different generational turnover than usual. Now, of course, the Switch 2 has sold meteorically, but it's a demonstrably powerful and different machine. I wonder if the PS6 is going to be working in a different place.

4:19:38It's going to be more subtle. I think a lot of people are not going to give a shit. They're not going to have 120 hertz monitors. They don't give a shit about ray tracing. They don't even care about 60 frames of some of these people. So I'll be very interested to see how this plays out. That's why I think the best option and it's not the option they're going to pursue apparently would be to make this generation go as long as possible and then turn over and really do it at that point yeah but you don't have to do it in 27 you do it 28 even 29 but i don't think so all right a couple more here jester 954 wrote in and said hey colin been listening since the first episode thank you patreon for the last couple of years thank you but this is my first write-in i was curious about something I noticed about Ninja Gaiden Ragebound that you never mentioned.

4:20:22Enemy respawn on screen limit. I feel like this is really what pushed the original Ninja Gaiden games to be so challenging. I was really enjoying Ragebound, but something was missing. Something felt off. Once I realized that enemies didn't respawn on screen limit, it kind of no longer felt like a genuine Ninja Gaiden game. Did you notice this? Thoughts? Love the show and we'll continue to support you all in your endeavors. I don't remember if I noticed it or not, but you have to remember this is something that Chris and I were talking about the other week about Mega Man and Slowdown is that just Just because these certain limitations kept us from playing a game a certain way doesn't mean that the future game should really lean into that.

4:20:55Maybe it should be an option to like scroll enemies back on the screen and and keep you really rigid. But people don't. People don't want to play like that anymore, and then that would be akin to slowing your game down intentionally as opposed to porting a game that had slowdown and keeping the slowdown there. That would be like, no, we have slowdown in our game, even though we made it now. like the respawning enemies not only in ninja guy but in megaman in castlevania and everything was a ram limit issue like the game literally didn't exist when it was off the screen and so it couldn't know that you already did this certain thing and that's not a technical limitation in my opinion you want to bring forward i think it felt a great deal like a ninja gaiden game and in the hard mode is a lot harder than the old Ninja Gaiden games, in my opinion.

4:21:44So stay with it. Now, my hope twofold about this, Jester. Number one, they got to release a rage bound sequel. Hopefully in the next few years. I don't know how it's sold. I don't know if it demands it. The second and more obvious thing is let's get a collection out there of the old trilogy and show people the differences and have those kinds of things where people can see like, damn, this game is fucking hard as hell, dude. And it really is. the thing it's funny jester that you say that was the enemy scrolling what i remember about ragebound is the thing that made it easy was that there was no it was very forgiving with checkpoints and there was no lives so it's like there's no penalty for there's no penalty to die there's no penalty to lose that's what made those old games hard was having to do it all again and then having continues and then using your continues and then just getting booted out that was fucking hard so shout out to ninja guy and ragebound awesome game final inquiry comes from KY is life.

4:22:39I think he means KY jelly or Kentucky says greetings. All this question is for Dustin. I am organizing my physical games from the PS3, PS4 and PS5 in a bookshelf with limited space. What are some options you suggest for now? I'm limiting the display to be just games from PlayStation studios and then in release order, not alphabetically. Any additional gets deeply neurotic. I love that. Any additional games are all stashed away in a separate drawer what are your thoughts and do you have a display as well yeah the limited space thing i can totally understand and relate to for for me if if your shelf is about displaying the games you love um then i would put those personally as the priority i'm not sure about release order uh i would probably go alphabetical though to be fair my PlayStation 4 and 5 games are not arranged alphabetically.

4:23:34They're just kind of all on the shelf right now because I've been rooting around in there. But as far as my display, my dad used to have an insane CD collection. I'm talking over a thousand CDs. And when I was in high school, he built a shelf into the wall of our living room for these CDs. Colin, you've seen it. Maybe Chris, you have too. so they're designed for cd jewel cases which is great for my playstation one collection but it's annoying because all of the the box based games need to go on their side and not vertically so the problem i have at this point is just that i have completely filled these shelves and so you got to collect like dreamcast games and shit or something that you could fit onto of those shelves yeah something i can fit on there i i think at this point i still have my movie collection uh on the adjacent wall at some point i think those are gonna have to go uh or i'm gonna have to figure out some other place for them right now my my collection is is complete disarray like it's it's kind of bad or to the point where it's gonna take me a few hours of reorganizing and figuring out what goes where shifting things around hopefully it's someday my dream is to have a home where i can have like the game room right where you can have your console set up have your retro console set up and you can have all put all the displays that you want for or the shelves for these games at some point i would love to do that but for now uh i gotta work with what i have which thankfully is pretty great uh it's just getting a little too full at this point.

4:25:16So the physical collecting thing, it's funny. That would really, it would really bother me if I were a physical collector and I couldn't display all of it. Right. That would come me out right now. I am almost at the limit of that. Like I was saying earlier, I have these other shelves on the side that I can start to shift non game stuff out of to put games on it. but then like the way i have mine arranged is that i have them on these shelves uh by console and i can't arrange them by like release year of console because that would be totally fucked so they're kind of just like mishmash like oh here's genesis here's nes here's super nintendo they're kind of just all over the place but they are displayed nicely like i said working with what I got.

4:26:03So at some point I'm going to have to figure out another solution but I definitely have to reorganize what I have just because it's like I'll set it up where it's like man this is perfect. But then you get a few more games and it's like fuck this no these new games that I bought will not fit there anymore. So I have to completely redo. Will you get ready? Will you I actually just gave all my DVDs away at some point like years and years ago. Will you do the same thing or you keep them and just put them in a box or something? We purged all of our DVDs for the most, almost all of them a very long time ago.

4:26:37So now my collection is like the blu rays and I have a very limited 4k collection. I've gotten really choosy about which game or which movies I buy physically at this point. So at some point there's going to have to be a, another purge or at the very least, like putting them not on display, right? Like in a container or something. So, I don't know in a jar in a jar. I don't know how that would work, but all right. Well, thank you for writing in KY is life. Kentucky is life. Let's say let's assume it's Kentucky. I like kind of like the KY jelly. Yeah, that's a well, look, why not? That's Gooner material.

4:27:19Why not both? Yeah, why not both? Why not? Why not both? I hope it would be funny if that was your name. And it's like, yeah, Kentucky. And I'm like, come on, man. No one's thinking that. all right let's get the hell out of here it's time to go that was a good episode yeah uh chris goodbye to you thank you for your time today hope you're well and uh have a good rest of your day any plans you want to share uh well i think in 30 minutes i'm recording again oh man and then and then we're recording it and then we're recording again immediately after that so like i think there's like that's a lot it's a lot today's a busy day so not not much right i'm probably just gonna work and then more borderlands today oh you know what it's been a week since i've been uh since i've since i turned off uh metal gear solid delta i'm gonna go uh gonna go see if the end is dead yeah yeah cool so probably very cool that'll be my night but it's yeah it's work the rest of the day dustin goodbye to you any plans you want to share your evening and weekend coming up i actually have no plans this weekend which is fantastic because last weekend was crazy with weird al and uh the joe hisaishi concert which was fantastic both of them absolutely fantastic uh so i'm gonna take it easy probably play some i gotta beat chronos uh not this weekend but i would like to beat it before silent hill f comes out because those are i don't really like juggling games to begin with but i definitely don't want to juggle those two games at the same time i'll give you something so well let me know let me know about that juggling so just gonna take it easy maybe have a few beers grilling season is going to be coming to a close soon so i'm thinking hot dogs oh yeah i saw an instagram video the other day that like this guy was like i don't know what it is but once you turn 30 as a man you just start thinking about hot dogs different you know you're just like oh man i could go for a dog hell yeah i'm like that is so true yeah or like five i can go for like five hot dogs one hot dog is never enough i usually eat three i i could probably eat hot dogs until i feel like there's a pretty good chance that i could eat hot dogs until someone else has to tell me to stop you know until you turn into a nitrate it's it's it doesn't register to me like it's like pasta or pizza those are those are the two other things that i can just like i i can't self-regulate on it because like i just i always want more and i don't notice that i'm in pain from eating too much of it they're so good conduits for all sorts of yummy toppings as well yeah okay cool very good uh i'm gonna take the dogs out for a walk thursday night football's on tonight just gonna be hanging out and uh looking forward to the weekend more football sleep it was really rainy for two days so uh i went for a six mile walk and like it wasn't raining but it was like drizzling the entire time yesterday very dramatic very dramatic all right boys i appreciate you hope you have a good rest of your day thank you all out there for your love kindness and support all things sacred symbols and last day media we could not do without you we appreciate you patreon.com slash last day media for early ad free access last day media.store for merch see you next time Until then, goodbye.

4:30:37See ya. Take care, guys. Sacred Symbols, a PlayStation podcast, is a product and trademark of Last Stand Media and Colin's Last Stand LLC and is proudly recorded in the USA. The show is conceived by, is written by, and is directed by me, Colin Moriarty. My co-hosts are Chris Raygun Maldonado and Dustin Furman. The show is produced by executive producer Dustin Furman. All of Last Stand's theme music is by my best friend, Ramon Narvaez. As you know, all of Last Stand's shows, including Sacred Symbols, are fan-funded on Patreon at patreon.com slash laststandmedia. The following names are at the producer level on Patreon, our highest tier, and we're grateful for your thoughtful and kind contributions to our independent endeavor.

4:31:21Thank you.

4:31:36Alan Tremblay, Alan Niner, Anthony Vasquez, Anton K., Antonio C., Asak Parades, Austin Riley, Azzan, Betty Ann Moriarty, Bjorn Campbell, Blackjack, Boots, Brad Cooley, Brad Lohman, Brian Williamson, Cannonball Jones, Captain Verde, Carlos Algaret, Chad Lewis, Chris Galvin, Chris Morton, Christopher Devayo, Christopher Moore, Christopher Morgan, Colin Love, Corey Bicom, Corey Dustin, Dan Root, Daniel D 'Amour, Daryl E. Neyman, Dave Alvarez, David Castanez, Dennis Usel, Dio or Die, Don Lee, Donald John Vaders, WTF, Dustin Klingman, Eddie Medina, Eddie Smith, Electric Soup, Ellis, Enrique Perez, Fozzie Bear, Gary Cavallo, Gavin, Geek Aloud, Gio Corsi, Grayson Maxwell, Gregory Slavinsky, Gus, Hugo De La Guia, Jad Rita, Jake C, Jason Arzon, Jay Getter, John Francois Forzi, Jeff Mercado, Jerria, Jerome Ferreira, Jimmy Rodriguez, Joe McPartland, Joey Gondoliker, John Schultz, John Zile, Johnny Waffles, John Cordero, Jonathan Coates, Jonathan Cortez, Joosh, Jorge Padilla, Jorge Pal, Joseph Baker, Josh Godfrey, Josh Gravelick, Josh McKinney, Josh Schullinger, Joshua Smallwood, JP Lynch, Justin Payne, Justin Wagaman, Kendrick Hayes, Kyle Hagel, Kyle J, Kyle Martin, Logan Little George, Madmoc Media, Miranda Grubba, Mark Liberto, Martin Beck, Mason Bouchard, Matt Flowers, Matt MGS24, Michael Buffel, Michael Gates, Michael Mashed Potato, Michael Vecchio, Mr.

4:33:07Tom, Morgan Ashley, Mr. Mulf, My Name is Mayo, Nate Izod, Nathan R., Neil Amon, Norse Nuts, Oli Fritz, Organic Produce, Patrick Leslie, Paul Joyce, Peyton Stone, Phil Crone, Pork and Beans, Randall Hulsey, Rallo, Relentless Rex, Remington James, Roto24, Ross Marenka, Ryan T. Mandel, Sakee Balam Saul Balcazar Sean Mason Shane Brekke Shane Miller Shane Rayoum Saul NZ Stewie 108 Stove Sultab Sweaty Magic Sweet Jones Terry Tip The Shady Mailman Throw 7 Toby Ryland Tom Quinn Trelon Trey Woodward Uncharted Shinobi Vance Cody WP Monty Wesley Mullins Who is Stephen Day Will Williams William Holbert Whiskey Sin Zach Cohen Zachary Wood Zen Red and Zainal Yuichi beauty.

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