Herb Simon: Reflections on a Lifetime of Leadership

0:00Herb Simon: Every year we just try to be better than next year. You always want to win the championship, but that's really, as you can know, it's very difficult. You've got to get lucky. No one has to get hurt. But if you give the fans a good game and play the right way and care about the community, it really becomes a, you know, sports is different. I mean, in business, no one comes up to me and says, how's your shopping center doing? But I have thousands of people come up, how the Pacers do it, how the FIBA do it. It's a family thing. It brings all generations together, all family together. And it's a unique business.

0:44Abe Madkour: He's the longest tenured owner in NBA and WNBA history. He's a member of the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame. He's worked with basketball legends like Larry Bird, Reggie Miller, and David Stern, to name a few. Pacers sports and entertainment owner Herb Simon took the stage at SBJ's Axis Drive Conference in Indianapolis on September 23, 2026. He was joined by SBJ's publisher and executive editor, Abe Madcorp. As you'll hear, Herb is soft-spoken and modest, answering many of Abe's questions with one or two words. But he is also funny, honest, insightful, and inspiring. He speaks about the growth of the NBA, his impact on the city of Indianapolis, his leadership style, and what matters most to him, winning games and bringing NBA and WNBA championships to the fans.

1:32Abe Madkour: I'm Dan Coffman of Sports Business Journal. Let's go on stage. So thank you for being with us. My pleasure. You grew up in New York. Your father was a tailor. They were immigrants from Central Europe. What made you and your brother come to Indiana?

1:47Herb Simon: Well, in the mid-'50s, my brother was stationed at Fort Benjamin Harrison here, which was the financial center. And he fell in love with Indiana, fell in love with his wife-to-be, and started working for a local real estate developer. And when I graduated college, he called me to come out to Indiana. I said, what? and so I deferred coming out for a couple of years but then I got married and I said I better go out and get a job I didn't have a job at the time so that's it's just semindipity I don't know why I came out here but it was the best move I ever made I think it does help to have a job when

2:28Abe Madkour: you're married don't you think yeah yeah it's a good it's a good start so you obviously fell in love with with with the region and the city and the state yes they accepted my brother and I were

2:37Herb Simon: We were two strange guys from New York. We were very well accepted here. It became our home, I really believe. I'm a Hoosier. I'm from Indiana. And I love the state and the city.

2:50Abe Madkour: And then, Herb, the idea to buy the Pacers. Talk about that, and what did you think that the team could become in this market?

2:58Herb Simon: I didn't believe anything. I was minding my own business, and I got a call from the mayor at that time. and they wanted a meeting at our offices. And of course I said yes. And they came with three other standing citizens. And we didn't even get to sit down. We were standing outside waiting for my brother Mel to come. And they told me the story about how the team was being sold and moved to Sacramento. Right. And that it would really destroy the city's growth and everything. and they really thought Mel and I would be the best people to buy the team. And they made us a pretty good offer. By that time, my brother walked out and I said, hey, they want us to buy the paces.

3:52Herb Simon: He said, why not? So we did it.

3:55Abe Madkour: Pretty good.

3:56Herb Simon: We didn't understand due diligence at that time.

3:59Abe Madkour: Pretty impulsive, fun, little quick deal.

4:02Herb Simon: That's really what happened. It's hard to believe. But back then, it wasn't really a bargain. I mean, we lost money for many, many years. But it was so important for the city. And so we were sort of proud. Except, and I thought, they really picked us. Isn't that great? They thought so much of us. And then years later, I found out that before they came to see us, they were turned down by five other groups.

4:30Abe Madkour: Good thing you said yes. And to everyone in the audience. The NBA was a different league in 1983 than it is now.

4:38Herb Simon: Correct.

4:39Abe Madkour: I mean, it wasn't at all the dynamic, sexy league that it is.

4:44Herb Simon: It had a lot of problems. In fact, we had a curtain around the upper stick. We couldn't draw people. I mean, it was really, it was not a bargain at the time. It turned out to be a bargain, by the way.

4:57Abe Madkour: And you, of course, your commissioner was the legendary David Stern. Yes. Quite a person. Actually, he took office the same year I bought the team. Same year, 83. When you and your brother took over, what did you want your ownership philosophy to be and what did you want ownership to stand for?

5:14Herb Simon: We didn't think that way. We were so busy building our own business that everything left it to others to run it for many years. Lately, the last 20 years, I've been really involved, but in the beginning, we were busy doing other things.

5:30Abe Madkour: But over your number of years, you've had three, three general managers. Correct. Donnie Walsh. Right. Larry Bird. And Kevin Pritchett. Some owners go through three in a year. Is Kevin here? I don't know if he's here. But so you, and looking at your organization, continuity's been pretty critical. You like continuity and loyalty, not loyalty, but people stay with Pacers Sports and Entertainment.

5:57Herb Simon: On the business side, we just retired Rick Fusin, 40 years, and Mel Raines is the new CEO, and I expect to be with her for the next 40 years.

6:09Abe Madkour: There you go. That's what, not a big act, right? You're there. I love it. And so, you know, we honored one of your people, Donna Wilkinson, as a game changer. She said this about you. He is always pushing us to be better and to do things the right way. You want to make him proud, but he leads with caring and that sets the tone for everything else. What's leading with caring?

6:39Herb Simon: Well, I want people to go home feeling good about themselves so things get hectic and you try to be sensitive to other people and if you do the right thing it's the way to do business. That's the way we've always done business in real estate and here and in sports. But you want to win. Yes, but we want to do it the right way.

7:02Abe Madkour: And it should be noted that your organization over since 83 has been one of the most successful in terms of consistency. Last year wasn't your favorite year, I know, but better days ahead. But over the long term, you've been a consistently successful franchise.

7:17Herb Simon: Well, after the first rocky years, I think we did pretty well. And every year we just try to be better than the next year. You always want to win the championship, but that's really, as you can know, it's very difficult. You've got to get lucky. No one has to get hurt. But if you give the fans a good game and play the right way and care about the community, it really becomes a... You know, sports is different. I mean, in business, no one comes up to me and says, how's your shopping center doing? But I have thousands of people come up, how the Pacers do it, how the FIBA do it. It's a family thing.

8:00Herb Simon: It brings all generations together, all family together. And it's a unique business. I didn't realize at the beginning it was just almost an unusual way to get into this league, but it became a really important part of my life and my family's life.

8:17Abe Madkour: Do you like that public exposure? Do you like people coming up to you and asking you, giving you suggestions about players and coaches and strategy?

8:25Herb Simon: No. How do you really feel? Do you like that? I like the fact that people care about it.

8:31Abe Madkour: They do care. Even the Pacers. I love that. And would you consider yourself a hands-on owner? Hands-on, hands-off.

8:40Herb Simon: What's that mean? Well, no, it's true. I'd like to know what's happening, but I really let the people who know what they're doing run the business. Does he? Yes.

8:51Abe Madkour: Okay. So hands-on, hands-off. But you have to get involved if you don't feel it's going in the right direction. Well, I say that's the hands-on part. That's the hands-on part. Did you ever anticipate, when you first got in in 83, sports would be in the place it is now? No. And what do you think has made sports and franchise values and interest in sports grow at such a trajectory? This is someone else to answer, but it's remarkable.

9:22Herb Simon: I can tell you the trajectory of the NBA from 83 to 2014. It was a very gradual, slow rise in value. In 2014, we had a new TV contract and something that some of my owners still don't like, revenue sharing. And that made the league more competitive. The smaller markets were able to compete. and those two things together, the values of the league has shot up at a bigger slope.

9:54Abe Madkour: But Herb, what I like about your leadership team is they never talk to me about small market. They don't view that they're in a small market. Is that correct? I use that to get revenue sharing.

10:04Herb Simon: You use that to get revenue sharing? Once I got it, it's becoming less and less.

10:11Abe Madkour: Market size doesn't matter as much. It's not as much anymore. What matters more, just winning and the brand? Well, fan loyalty and fan engagement and community engagement. We were all, most of us were at the Fever game last night. When you got into the W in 2000, you probably never saw that it would be the place it is today.

10:35Herb Simon: No, not really, but it did give me my only ring. They did give you your only ring.

10:43Herb Simon: 2012, we won the championship, and that was a good feeling.

10:46Abe Madkour: I bet it's a good feeling. There are more rings to get. They're out there. I'm hanging around. I know you are, buddy. In terms of the brand of the fever and the metrics behind it and the interest behind that organization outside of the patients, but the fever, it's quite remarkable. Well, you know,

11:05Herb Simon: it took a new generation of players to come along and had more exposure. It just took off. It's remarkable. I mean, the last three years have been completely different than the 20 years before, 25 years before.

11:22Abe Madkour: And looking around, I don't know how many people noticed this last night, but with my colleagues, they're so into the game. Last night, nobody was on their phone. Nobody had their head down. They were into every pass, every move, every play. And it just feels different for the W and specifically for the Fever than other sports that I've attended. Do you feel that when you're sitting there and watching? Yeah, it's a different kind of crowd.

11:44Herb Simon: Both crowds are great, but they're different, and they both get engaged differently. Where do you watch games?

11:51Abe Madkour: Are you on court side, or are you... I sit off to the side with the basketball people. You like to stay in the background a little bit? No. So why, when I ask someone from the NBA, why did someone from the NBA say, how did you get him to do this? He never does stuff like this. You don't like public speaking or public...

12:10Herb Simon: I think the team should speak for itself. And the only reason you got me here is Mel.

12:20Abe Madkour: She's good. She's tough. But you should know that everybody in this room is benefiting by you being here and making an appearance. It's important. And the city, I walked around with Mel and Joey Graziano, who's not from Indianapolis, by the way. Joey isn't. He's one of those outliers. is pretty hard. Is that right? And you've hired a few outliers lately. Yeah? Yeah. And the organization's super strong. But we were walking around downtown, and you're investing a lot of money and a lot of interest and a lot of energy into downtown Indianapolis. Why now, and what's the vision?

12:57Herb Simon: Well, it's becoming more and more common throughout the country. The energy that's created by the arena and the sports teams is create a reason for people to come downtown. We have like two million visits a year, not too many people, but two million visits just to the arena. That brings people down. And every city has to have a downtown that works. We struggle with our city. Most cities' downtown struggle. And I think the time is right. And it's a way of giving back to the community that's been so good to us. And I'm almost as excited about the development as I am about the team.

13:42Abe Madkour: But you're a developer at heart. I mean, you're shopping, you're malls. I mean, that's how you and your brother built the business.

13:50Herb Simon: Yes.

13:51Abe Madkour: Right? And so for those people who are first-timers to this city, the vision at the end will be a really, I would say, a very active core around Gainbridge Fieldhouse, a Ritz.

14:04Herb Simon: Ritz Carlson. Live Nation Theater, 4 ,000 seats. Some restaurants. Just a very walkable, pedestrian-friendly area.

14:13Abe Madkour: With a bridge from the hotel to the arena. Right. And I will say, after last night, I've been to the building a number of times. It's one of the best basketball venues out there in the world. We love it. Yeah. I mean, the energy in it and the way you renovated it. It's almost been, not almost a decade, but about 17 or 18 when you renovated it in terms of the... When was that? 20. So 20. So the last six years, the building really looks and feels and is different. We're proud of it. You should be. You should be. What do you consider a successful season?

14:48Herb Simon: Making the playoffs is always important. And certainly going past the second round is really nice. And the third round is even better. Even better. And bingo. The year before, we were in the finals. Oh, you were. and we were in the seventh game. You were. And tragedy happened. Otherwise, I might have had a ring.

15:13Abe Madkour: Yes, like I said, there's still time. And so I won't say, I mean, that was a big, big, big run for you. Last year wasn't, but I had an owner one time tell me that make the playoffs and make money. But for you, it's just you want to make the playoffs. At the end of the day, that's the key component. And the state of the league under Adam Silver, healthy and strong? Adam?

15:34Herb Simon: Adam is incredible. One of the incredible commissioners of all time. We're lucky. David Stern was the right person at the right time. It was a struggling league and he needed his toughness. But Adam brought it to new heights that I never would dream. And he's been incredible.

15:54Abe Madkour: For those who don't remember or weren't around with David Stern, David Stern was, finish the sentence. Pugnacious. Pugnacious. Is that a kind way of putting it? I mean, he was tough. Well, he had to be. I mean, that was the early days. It was very tough. Did he ever call and yell at you over the phone?

16:12Herb Simon: Yeah.

16:13Abe Madkour: Yeah. Are you a yeller back? No. No. You just listen? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And for you, is ownership a family business? Absolutely. So talk about that. How do you get your children involved how do you get everyone involved i know you have your partner here steve and so it's all part of the part of the group right they have a great partner a great son who's following me two

16:38Herb Simon: great daughters who are here who are all involved in their own way it's it's like nothing else you can be involved in business i mean that it's a business that brings everyone together it's

16:49Abe Madkour: interesting oh so many owners tell me that like they get it and it brings their family it's the one time where their family is able to get together. It's a very, very unifying experience, mostly, and that really adds to a great part of family camaraderie to be together over sports. Is that for you? Especially when you win. Especially when you win. I'm getting a theme here that winning is pretty important. Who are the people or players, coaches, that have made the biggest impact on you since 1983, since you got into the game?

17:21Herb Simon: Well, I think I liked Larry Bird when he coached. He came in and he said, I'm going to coach for three years and that's it. And he quit after three years but he brought us to the finals. Our first finals against the Lakers in 2000, I think. And I think he was special. How did you land Larry? He was looking for a job, I guess.

17:44Abe Madkour: That's always a good point. Don't say I said that. In this room. but he, I mean, Larry's a legend for people my generation, I mean, he's amazing and his qualities, I mean he seems, not pugnacious, but he seems tough he's one of a kind

17:59Herb Simon: but he was a great, also a very great president of basketball too he ran for many years

18:05Abe Madkour: he knows the game knows the players so Larry Bird's one, who else stands out? that was a coach

18:13Herb Simon: as a player, I think there's two players that I have to think about not including the present day players. Reggie Miller sort of brought us to the limelight, caused a lot of positive reaction here and a lot of negative reaction in New York, which made me feel good. And he worked, he was with us for 18 years, never threatened to leave and always was ready and always special guy. And then, of course, a big positive thing about Tamika Catchings, who brought me my first ring. She led the team for many years and was an incredible person and is still involved with us to this day.

18:59Abe Madkour: Yes, I believe she was there last night, if I recall. And Reggie could shoot. Reggie Miller could shoot the ball, right? Absolutely. At the right time, too. Yeah, he was pressure. He was definitely. How many New Yorkers didn't like Reggie Miller? Raise your hand. Okay, there's a couple there. Reggie's not the most fond of. And you said Tamika got a WNBA championship special player. 2012. Yep. 2012, yep. And so coaches, players, and then people at the league office. You mentioned David. You mentioned Adam. Anybody else, fellow owners, colleagues, peers that really stand out as special?

19:40Herb Simon: I don't want to get into that. No. They're all different, right? We have some strange owners, I'll tell you that. Yeah, okay.

19:50Abe Madkour: My natural response would be, really, who? I won't do that to you. You still go to BOG meetings, and you're still active?

19:59Herb Simon: Absolutely, yeah.

20:00Abe Madkour: And you were very, very, I would say, humbled by the Basketball Hall of Fame honor. Yes, it was unexpected. Were you uncomfortable with that? Yes. Why? You just don't like that. I didn't like the color of the jacket. But you went to Springfield, you gave a great speech. It was a great, great weekend for you and your family, right? Yeah, it turned out to be very low. It turned out to be good. And this hasn't been terrible, right? You're not too bad. Well, I got 10 minutes to screw it up, right? You're a positive guy, you have a good energy. I think I like you. Oh, I like you. I like you. If I was to ask them, your leadership team, when you're at a meeting and they have an idea, Herb, we want to do this.

20:45Abe Madkour: We want to do that. What's your response? How do you push back? How do you pressure test any of their ideas?

20:51Herb Simon: I'm a mostly yes person. I like to do things. I'm also, I'm a long-term, I may have a short-term runway, but I'm a long-term look. I look for the future. so anything that's going to be positive even if it's going to take a number of years I'm always used for it Would you say that's true?

21:11Abe Madkour: So you enable them to have the ideas, come up with them and then if it's a good idea execute against them and obviously you'll help underwrite that and finance and put resources behind that and that's part of the energy around this whole development around here I wanted to talk about is there a piece of advice that you would give either your children, you give to Steve since you've been in the business a long time, any of these young sports business executives, is there a piece of advice that you have on what the next generation of sports business could be like? What will sports be like in the future?

21:48Abe Madkour: And how should they look at it? I just don't know. You don't know? I don't know.

21:53Herb Simon: I think you've got to just treat people well and work hard and get lucky. By the way, luck is very important. How did you get lucky? they gave me the team almost, and it turned to be lucky. Coming to Indiana when I didn't want to come to Indiana turned out to change my life with my brothers. You do a lot of things that you don't realize at the time.

22:18Abe Madkour: That's pretty lucky. True, but you also worked hard. Yes. And by the sounds of it, you treat people well. Mostly. Mostly. is there a decision move that you regret or that you didn't get right hmm probably I can't think of one now a lot of mistakes do you handle criticism well yes

22:49Abe Madkour: that doesn't pass the BS meter to me so if it had to lie

22:53Herb Simon: I really do encourage other opinions. I think it's important not to think you know everything because no one knows everything. So you're comfortable saying, I don't know. I have some really great guys here, women here who really come up with the ideas and I just support them. I mean, so you can't

23:18Abe Madkour: know everything. And if you read in media or outlets that the Pacers don't know what they're doing or the Fever or making a mistake, you're able to take that fairly calmly. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Going forward, as we sit here, we're in September of 2026. Herb, what's next for you? I know we're looking forward to the playoffs for the W. You're looking forward to a stronger Pacers season. That's the unusual thing.

23:44Herb Simon: I mean, it's 44 years, and I'm excited about the playoffs, and I'm still very excited about the start of the Pacers season. and I was thinking after 44 years, it wouldn't be as exciting,

23:56Abe Madkour: but it is really looking forward to it. So every season gives you a great bit of jolt and energy and excitement? Except last season. Except last season. Did you leave last season any games early? Many. Many. I mean, you've earned that, right? If you don't want to stick around, you don't have to.

24:12Herb Simon: I think over the years, I've watched or been at almost every piece of game. I didn't think of missing any. And you don't travel on the road with them, or do you? Go ahead. No. In the beginning I did. There's nothing worse than losing on the road. It's a long way back home. It's a long way back home.

24:30Abe Madkour: So by the sounds of it, you take losses much harder than the euphoria of a win. Well, you like winning? Yeah. But I guess what I'm asking is someone told me that after a Pacers loss, Herb is the biggest you try to keep the energy up among staff and people. You don't dower on the loss. If someone said it, maybe it's true. You don't believe it. We wish you the best. We thank you for joining us today. Give it up for Herb Simon, everyone. Take care of yourself. Thanks for listening to this episode of SBJ On Stage. I was lucky to be in person to see Herb Simon speak earlier this year. You heard Abe note that he doesn't often speak in public.

25:14Abe Madkour: Herb mentioned the importance of luck in his life, along with treating people well and working hard. We're lucky to have Herb's wisdom to share with others. We're back in two weeks with another conversation from the stage featuring leaders shaping the future of sports business. Until next time, stay tuned and stay ahead. This is On Stage.