Nicole Lynn: A Woman Changing the Game and Disrupting the Status Quo

0:00Nicole Lynn: My decision not to cover was the best decision I ever made in my career. Has anybody ever heard of the concept of covering? A couple people? The concept of covering is hiding intimate details about yourself to conform to the dominant culture. So let me give you an example. You're Muslim and you're practicing Ramadan and someone invites you to lunch and you say, I've got a Zoom. I'm sorry, but actually you're fasting and you're hiding that intimate detail. As a black woman, it might have been covering up my natural hair. It might have been hiding intimate details about my personality and my family.

0:30Nicole Lynn: That's what covering is. And when I got into law, which is a male-dominated industry, and started a dual career as an agent, I was very strategic on I am not going to cover. I'm going to show up every single day as myself. I'm not going to try to blend in, even in the most uncomfortable moments. Because if I don't cover, then the next black girl that comes behind me with the natural hair is able to clearly walk through the path that I've blazed and that I've cleared for them.

0:55Bonnie Bernstein: That's Nicole Lynn, president of football at Clutch Sports Group. She's the first black woman ever to represent an NFL draft pick. In 2023, she negotiated a$255 million contract for Philadelphia Eagles quarterback Jalen Hurts, which at the time was the largest contract in NFL history. She's a published author, an executive producer, and much more. A sports business professional truly deserving to be called a trailblazer. Today's conversation featuring Nicole takes us to SBJ's Game Changers Conference in 2024. where she was joined on stage by veteran broadcaster Bonnie Bernstein. Their discussion explores leadership, mentorship, career growth, and the future of talent management through the perspective of one of the industry's most dynamic executives.

1:40Bonnie Bernstein: I'm Dan Kaufman with Sports Business Journal, and welcome to this episode of SBJ On Stage. Joining me to add perspective to Nicole's conversation is Tiffany Griffiths-Williams, Senior Business Counsel at NFL Players Inc. Tiffany, thank you for joining us.

1:55Dan Kaufman: Thanks for having me, Dan.

1:56Bonnie Bernstein: I'm so glad you're here, Tiffany. It's been a little while since we've been trying to coordinate this and I'm really thrilled to have this conversation with you. This is a session that is one of the most highly rated sessions that SBJ has done over the past few years. Really interested in your perspective. Give a little bit of perspective maybe for the audience to let them know what they should be looking out for as they listen to this. But before that, I want to at least I want to go back and I want to ask you if you if you've met Nicole before. Tell me that. And if you have, I want to hear more about that interaction.

2:28Dan Kaufman: So I actually have not met Nicole before, but Nicole is, to say the least, a major name in the agency space. Everyone who works at the PA, at Players Association, as well as Players Inc, where I sit. But honestly, even in the broader sports ecosystem, knows of Nicole Lynn. You know, you already listed some of her premier, her premier clients and the work that she's done, the way that she's pioneered, not only for agents in general, but for obviously women, black women, you know, underdogs, people who maybe didn't start off in the path of becoming an agent, but ultimately did. She's very well known for that, too.

3:08Dan Kaufman: So she's she's a household name for certain in the sports space.

3:12Bonnie Bernstein: Give me your immediate emotional reaction, if you could, after watching this for the first time. I know you said you had seen it before, then rewatched again. Do you remember how you felt after seeing this session?

3:22Dan Kaufman: Yeah, I think for me, it's, you know, first of all, in general, it's always refreshing to see a woman, a black woman, a dynamic person in the seat that she is in speaking to what I imagine was a massive audience of folks, either her peers or people who wanted to be where she was. For me, it was, you know, she had so many insightful points, not only in sharing vulnerability about her origin story and her journey to becoming an agent, but also to how she's navigated or how she navigated building her confidence at the beginning of her career from her first pitch to what her pitch looks like now. the mutual vetting with clients.

4:03Dan Kaufman: It was just very interesting to follow this journey that, to be honest, on this panel probably seemed straightforward in hearing it, but I'm certain as she was going through that journey, it was anything but that. And so it was a great opportunity just to hear her story, to see how she navigates the space still to this day, and how she tries to shed light and information and insight to others who want to be in her seat.

4:31Bonnie Bernstein: if there is one item, the most important thing you're taking away from the conversation that you want to tease the audience to pay attention to, what would it be?

4:40Dan Kaufman: There's so many teasers. To limit it to one, I would say, if you're someone who's looking to enter a room that feels crowded, that feels like there's not a space for you, or to sit at a table where there are no seats and you're kind of in the back trying to look in between, take a look at this. I think that she offers an incredible perspective on how to navigate those situations and to pull up your own chair to that table.

5:07Bonnie Bernstein: Thank you, Tiffany. Stay tuned for more reactions from Tiffany and me after you listen to Nicole Lynn in conversation with Bonnie Bernstein. Let's go on stage. This is a fascinating, as somebody who's like been working in football since I was 22 years old. Being able to sit next to you was an honor for me.

5:26Nicole Lynn: Thank you.

5:27Bonnie Bernstein: I try to promote women as much as I can. I'm also smart enough to understand that sports broadcasting is a place where there weren't a lot of people who looked like me when I first started out. I don't know that I've ever come across a woman who said, my life's goal is to represent football players. So for those who may not know your origin story, what is it?

5:51Nicole Lynn: Yeah, that's a loaded question.

5:52Bonnie Bernstein: How did we get here?

5:54Nicole Lynn: How did we get here? Has anyone ever seen the TV show Snowfall? Or maybe the movie Pursuit of Happiness? Is that easier? Pursuit of Happiness, yeah. That was kind of like my life growing up. I definitely had a tough childhood. At the age of eight years old, my biggest concern was what I was going to eat the next day. There was a lot of homelessness and living in cars and just challenges. And I don't want to start off on a Debbie Downer. Spoiler alert, it works out. But that's really where my passion started. I knew that my way out was education, so I went to college. And while I was in college, I met all these incredible athletes that had the same story and upbringing as me.

6:30Bonnie Bernstein: At the University of Oklahoma? University of Oklahoma, Boomer Sooner.

6:34Nicole Lynn: And I met these athletes that kind of grew up in the hood like I did. But what was great for them is that they had this athletic ability that allowed them to go and make a lot of money in the NFL. But it was really something that I just could not, I could not understand that they were going from rags and then they'd get drafted and go to riches and then somehow end up back at rags. And I wanted to be the person that helped change that very vicious cycle. And so I originally thought I was going to be a financial advisor for athletes. And so after I graduated with a finance degree, I moved to New York City.

7:03Nicole Lynn: I worked right across the street from here at Morgan Stanley on 47th and Broadway. And I had my big girl job and I was going to go rep athletes and I was going to help them with their finances. And then I learned pretty quickly that it's not the financial advisor that changes the mindset about money for an athlete. It's really the agent. The agent has the biggest influence on a player. And so once I realized that, I left Wall Street and went to law school, and kind of the rest is history.

7:28Bonnie Bernstein: For the game changers in our audience and aspiring game changers in our audience, one of your mantras is find your purpose. Yeah. Yeah. So you have explained how you discovered your purpose, but there really wasn't much in the way of precedent for you to actually achieve it. How did you create your own precedent? Yeah.

7:50Nicole Lynn: I mean, I think going back to the first piece of the question is about the purpose. I know there's always this question about what's my life purpose and how do you find purpose? And the way that I have viewed purpose, I wrote a book called Agent You and I break it down into kind of four prongs. And again, this is subjective. This is my own opinion, but I think it's something that you're naturally, you know, you're naturally good at. I call it your superpower. Something that you enjoy, because I don't think we're put on this earth to have a purpose we don't love. Something that makes an impact on the world.

8:16Nicole Lynn: And that can look like a lot of things, right? It's not always feeding kids in Africa. It could be raising amazing humans at home. And then the fourth being something you would do for free. It doesn't mean you do it for free, but would do it for free. And so for me, being a sports agent really aligned with my purpose. And as you mentioned, there weren't a lot of people to look to. There's a few women that did come before me that are incredible, like the Kelly Masters of the world, and Kristen, and Christina, and Kim Yally, but that's just a handful. There wasn't a big precedent.

8:46Bonnie Bernstein: Who was the first football player you signed?

8:48Nicole Lynn: Oh, gosh. Seth Roberts.

8:51Bonnie Bernstein: Do you remember the elevator pitch?

8:55Nicole Lynn: Yeah.

8:56Bonnie Bernstein: What was it?

9:00Nicole Lynn: terrible. I mean, I think the elevator pitch for my first client that I didn't get is probably, it was something like, my name is Nicole Lynn, and I used to work on Wall Street, and I'm a really hard worker, and I hope that you will sign with me as your agent, and I'm super smart, and that was probably as much as I had, so, and it's tough. You're sitting in front of these guys. At the time, I was 26 years old, so he was like 23, so he's like my peer. I don't have any clients. I am a nobody. I don't know why the guy signed with me. It's given insanity. Okay.

9:31Bonnie Bernstein: So clearly you're a somebody now. You got Jalen Hurts, Quinnen Williams, who went number three in the draft in 2019, Miles Garrett, Will Anderson Jr., B. John Robinson, who I love. What's the elevator pitch now? And how differently do you present yourself versus the way you presented yourself at 26?

9:51Nicole Lynn: That's a good point. I can't give you my elevator pitch because that's a secret sauce. But what I will say is I think the confidence is different.

9:59Bonnie Bernstein: What happens in your state? Molly's here. We compete.

10:05Nicole Lynn: I think the difference now, you know, obviously is the confidence, right? It's tough because even when you've had any kind of level of success, I mean, I remember being in the green room for the very first time with Quentin Williams. And at the time he was the number one ranked player in college football. and when I walked in the room, I still felt like I wasn't supposed to be there. And I still felt like someone was going to say I was his girlfriend or think that I was working there and hand me their plate and ask me to throw it away. So imposter syndrome, it runs deep, even when you've had success.

10:35Nicole Lynn: And so my elevator pitch is a bit more confident, but sometimes still rooted in imposter syndrome. Sometimes I still have to hype myself up. And if that's you, I just encourage you to get a village, a village of people that remind you who you are.

10:48Bonnie Bernstein: In order to shatter glass ceilings, become a game changer, as so many of you are, we have to, what you call in your book, throw a Hail Mary. Just put yourself out there, step completely out of your comfort zone, do something that you could never, at a certain point in your life, envision yourself doing. What was that Hail Mary for you?

11:13Nicole Lynn: I think my first big Hail Mary was leaving Wall Street. As you heard from my upbringing, I didn't come from money. I had nothing. I had no plan B. I had no parents. I had nothing. And I went to a state school, and I got a big girl job, where all the kids there went to Harvard or Yale, and I shouldn't have been there. And I realized I wanted to be an agent, and I was going to have to leave this cushy job to chase a crazy dream of sports.

11:36Bonnie Bernstein: And have financial security, too, especially coming from your environment.

11:40Nicole Lynn: And let me tell you, when you tell people that you're leaving Wall Street to go be a sports agent, it's kind of like telling them you're going to be a rapper right it's kind of like saying i'm gonna go be jay-z or p diddy not p diddy no no no no too soon too soon too soon okay i'm gonna go be a rapper and i'm gonna chase this crazy dream let's go with queen latifah she's a thing let's go yeah missy elliott but that's the that's the energy that i got they're like are you out of your mind you have this amazing job and and you're comfortable but for me it was it was kingdom work It was passion. And so I left.

12:13Nicole Lynn: Literally, the minute I realized what the title of an agent was and how you got certified, within three months, I took my LSAT, and I was on my way. I was like, I'm going to be a sports agent. And I went to law school. And then I started this dual career as an attorney. And I had another Hail Mary where I left law to go work for Rich Paul, the greatest sports agent in history, and leave law, which was part of my identity. So a couple Hail Marys.

12:35Bonnie Bernstein: You know, you stepped into an area where there were so few for you to look toward. I feel like there's more conversation than there's ever been about how important it is for us to be our authentic self. And I don't mean to be at all, like, minimizing when I say that. It is very important. But the reality is, and I was like this when I first got into broadcasting, we look at the prototype. The prototype is typically male. And so we try to emulate the patriarch. How relatable is that to you early in your career versus the process of truly becoming your authentic self?

13:19Nicole Lynn: Extremely relatable. I think my decision not to cover was the best decision I ever made in my career. Has anybody ever heard of the concept of covering? A couple people? The concept of covering is hiding intimate details about yourself to conform to the dominant culture. So let me give you an example. You're Muslim, and you're practicing Ramadan. And someone invites you to lunch, and you say, I've got a Zoom. I'm sorry. But actually, you're fasting. And you're hiding that intimate detail. As a black woman, it might have been covering up my natural hair. It might have been hiding intimate details about my personality and my family.

13:51Nicole Lynn: That's what covering is. And when I got into law, which is a male-dominated industry, and started a dual career as an agent, I was very strategic on I am not going to cover. I'm going to show up every single day as myself. I'm not going to try to blend in, even in the most uncomfortable moments, because if I don't cover, then the next black girl that comes behind me with the natural hair, right, is able to clearly walk through the path that I've placed, right, and that I've cleared for them. And it's not always easy, but I always encourage people when we're talking about authentic self, don't cover, especially in your workplace.

14:21Bonnie Bernstein: You can look at yourself in the mirror and say, I'm not going to cover. I'm going to be my authentic self. That doesn't necessarily say that everybody around you is going to buy in. How did people react to you being the new girl and the new girl, oh, by the way, not covering?

14:38Nicole Lynn: You know, I always go back and forth if I want to mention this or not, and I'm going to. The most difficult part were women. You know, I never had men try to put guardrails in place or put barriers in place. It was usually women. It's the trailblazer effect. You work really hard, you're the only one at the top, and you don't want anyone else to be there. You don't want to make a seat at the table. And so I've made it my life's mission to expand the table, because I know what it felt like at the beginning when I was all in, and I was one of the few, and, you know, it was not as welcoming. And I think part of it was because I was so confident who I was internally.

15:14Bonnie Bernstein: When you have women who are putting up barriers, and I would imagine this is relatable for many of us in the audience, how do you deal with it in a way that produces a productive and positive outcome?

15:31Nicole Lynn: It's a really tough question. It's a really tough question. I mean, I think it's just treating everyone with mutual respect and not letting anyone in the industry, unfortunately, have that level of control over you, right? You have your own career. You're your own person. No one can have that level of control. And so you just got to have to, I mean, it's really tunnel vision.

15:53Bonnie Bernstein: What do you think differentiates you as an agent that makes the process more athletes seeking out you these days versus you seeking out athletes? What are they looking for when they're coming to you versus a different agent?

16:07Nicole Lynn: I'm still seeking out athletes, I will tell you.

16:09Bonnie Bernstein: No, no, no, I know you are. It's a two-way process.

16:13Nicole Lynn: I think some of the differences are, you know, I have an emphasis on financial literacy. I implemented something called Fishers of Men, which my guys call rookie school, that every player that signs with me has to go through. It's a course on, I like to call it adulting, right? And the premise behind it is, if you teach a man to fish, he'll eat forever. If you give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. So that's where the Fishers of Men comes from. And so they learn everything from how to check your credit and how to tie a tie. I bring someone in to show them how to change a tie. or how do you order a steak at a restaurant?

16:43Nicole Lynn: So I think that level of deep-rooted care and mentorship is different, because it takes a lot of time. I put a lot of emphasis on teaching, but the reward is amazing. Like when you have a player call you and say, oh, my gosh, they're asking for my Social Security number. That means it's a hard pull of my credit.

17:00Bonnie Bernstein: I'm like, yes, it's a hard pull of my credit. Do you ever get pushback from guys, though? I'm sure that there's plenty of them. Oh, yeah, I'll do the financial literacy thing, Fishers of Men, rookie school, yeah, let's do it. And then when it comes time to show up at rookie school, they're late, they're a no-show. No.

17:17Nicole Lynn: Never, really? They love it. I mean, they joke, oh, we have rookie school. I do it during the draft process once a week on Wednesdays. Oh, rookie school, dang. They love it. I mean, when we're talking, I mean, we'll talk not who to vote for, but how do politics work, right? What's a Democrat? What's a Republican? Why are you choosing one or the other? Here's the examples. And I just think that they have more confidence, because I never want them to walk in a room and feel less than. because when this stuff is over, nobody remembers your name. Nobody remembers your touchdowns, right? And so I want you to have the level of confidence to be a little adult in any room you go to.

17:46I would imagine, though, that the buy-in that you get

17:51Bonnie Bernstein: comes from your intentionality when it comes to who you sign. And this is something I think is really important because so many of the folks in our audience are in leadership positions and in a position to hire. And how many times have we had this opportunity to just bring in like a thoroughbred who busts through walls, super productive, impacts your bottom line, but you know what? Excuse my French, they're an asshole. That's true. And you juggle because it's your job to make sure the bottom line is where it needs to be, but you struggle because character matters. Character matters to you. So tell me about that process.

18:32Bonnie Bernstein: And have you been in a situation where there's like a total baller out there who's like, you know, three-time All-American, and he wants to come to you, and you're like, no, pass.

18:40Nicole Lynn: I haven't had that specific situation happen, but I'm really, really critical about the character of the player and making it make sense. Part of it's being a woman. I can't take every player, right? It has to be a fit. And one of my goals is that when an NFL team sees a player sign with me, it's a green check. It's like, okay, we know that he's a good guy. And so I'm really intentional about that, which when you ask, how are the guys in rookie school, there's not a huge issue, right? These are really high-level character guys that are excited and appreciative of what I'm bringing to the table.

19:10Bonnie Bernstein: So you run the football division at Clutch, which entails predominantly male players but some of the female coaches. Historically, when we have talked about leadership skills, that conversation didn't always entail what we categorize as soft skills, compassion and empathy and communication that typically are inherent to women. When you think about your client-agent dynamics, what would you consider your superpower on that front that is a core differentiator, especially when you either have to have difficult conversations with your clients or there may be something going on in their lives externally that is impacting their football lives?

19:56Nicole Lynn: I definitely lead from a place of empathy. and that's really important. What does that look like? And it's a judgment-free zone. I mean, I remember having a player call me because he hadn't scored a touchdown, right? And like five-star athlete his whole life, the whole thing. And it feels a little different. It's difficult. And he was crying. And I just, I wonder, and I will not assume, but I wonder, does he have that same conversation with a male agent? Maybe, I don't know. There's a lot of really difficult parts about being in a woman in the business, but this might be the pro, right? this might be one of the moments where it goes, man, this is an opportunity for a player to be vulnerable maybe where he wouldn't.

20:33Nicole Lynn: And so I think that's a soft skill that I have, and I'm very vulnerable with my players as well. Yeah.

20:39Bonnie Bernstein: I would imagine that mentorship has been really important to you. It's important to all of us, quite frankly. Who would you consider your most impactful mentor and the best piece of advice he or she gave you? and since I'm not in the business of asking two-part questions, I will ask about the worst piece of advice after that.

21:01Nicole Lynn: Number one mentor, best piece of advice. My mentor growing up in the business was a man named Ken Sarnoff who took a shot on me and taught me everything I know and I owe him everything. What's interesting about Ken is that he was this middle-aged Jewish white man that when you kind of put us up next to each other, you're wondering where this came from. But what I love about it was his ability to say, hey, I'm going to mentor someone that maybe doesn't come from the same upbringing or doesn't have the, you know, the same look. I think the best advice I ever got was from a couple of things. For the room, make sure you have a mentor, but also make sure you have a sponsor.

21:39Nicole Lynn: And those are very different things. We like to conflate the term mentor and sponsor. A mentor is someone that's a teacher, right? This could be someone just a bit above you, someone that graduated a year before or five years before, but you can kind of ask your scary questions to and they can teach you. a sponsor is an advocate. A sponsor has a seat at the table, they have skin in the game, and they can help the trajectory of your career, right? They can propel your career. A mentor can't do that. And if I had to choose between a mentor and a sponsor, I'm choosing a sponsor every day. The issue is that sponsors have to have a seat at the table, and who's at the table?

22:13Nicole Lynn: And are there a lot of women at the table? Not always. And you sponsor people that look like you, right? And so it's really tricky. So I challenge the men in the room, sponsor a woman, sponsor someone that doesn't look like you. And your second question was the best piece of advice I've ever received. My law firm mentor once told me that excellence is your greatest currency. Excellence is your greatest currency. If you are excellent in everything you do, then they can't hold you out. I love the video and you're the first woman and all those things are great. But what I'd love to hear is you're excellent negotiator, you're excellent agent, you're excellent with your clients.

22:48Nicole Lynn: It doesn't matter if you're black or you're white or you're young, if I'm excellent, I'm an expert in my field, I will have a seat at the table.

22:54Bonnie Bernstein: I want to tag what you said about finding a sponsor too. It's critical when you're finding a sponsor that you actually are proactive about having that conversation. You may come across somebody who is in a position to elevate you, but unless they are open and willing to do that happily and proactively, that's not a sponsor. Agreed. And I've been in that situation, too, where I've made that assumption, and then I wind up sort of putting my foot in my mouth because I've put them in an uncomfortable position, which is something that you don't want to do. Worst piece of advice you've ever gotten?

23:30Nicole Lynn: Worst piece. Also in the law firm. You know, it's interesting because I thought this was great advice until a year ago. So it was like maybe nine years I thought this was the greatest advice I ever received. There was a partner at the law firm, a woman, who was very high up, and we had a women's event, and she said, if you ever have something you have to do for your kid, right, if you've got to go to a soccer game or you've got to pick up your kid from school, never blame the kid. Never say it's for the kid. Say, I've got a prior engagement or I've got a meeting. You don't want to be stamped as the office mom.

24:02Nicole Lynn: And I thought, man, that's great. That's incredible advice. And then I had a kid. And I think it's the worst advice because what it's doing is it's covering being a parent, right? And who I am as an agent, but I'm also a mom and I'm also a wife and I'm also all of these different things. And even if being a mom does not conform to the dominant culture, right, you're in a male-dominated industry, I don't want to cover that. Because the more we make it normal and common to be a parent and to be a boss, right, and to be a negotiator, it helps the people that come behind us. so we got to make that more you know just something that people are used to you know it helps the people coming up behind but it also does wonders in creating a level of relatability agreed because

24:45Bonnie Bernstein: if you're okay having that conversation then it opens it up for everybody else and so yes coming up behind but also in the moment the impact you have by not covering you are not just an agent you are an author, you are a speaker, you are a champion. Let's talk about building your brand. And it's interesting because having grown up in the football world and really in the sports world, there was a really long time where athletes were criticized for doing, you know, just shut up and shut up and dribble. And now, particularly, I think with NIL becoming so prevalent on the college scene, you've got college athletes, and it'll soon be high school athletes, who are becoming entrepreneurs and CEOs of their own brands, sometimes before they even have a bank account.

25:35Bonnie Bernstein: So what have been a couple of effective strategies in you building your brand without getting away from the core of what you do?

25:44Nicole Lynn: That's a great question. I think everyone has a brand, personally and professionally. It doesn't matter if you're public-facing. We all have brands. The thing is, is are we controlling the brand? In your workplace, they're going to put a brand on you. Are you the working mom? Are you the Jewish person? Are you the hard worker? It's going to happen. And so I made a decision early in my career that I was going to dictate my own brand. And part of my job is recruiting athletes. And so I wanted to create a brand that was strong enough that when I walked in the room, they at least knew who I was. Because that was my hurdle, right?

26:13Nicole Lynn: I walk in the room, they're like, do you even know football? Like instead of just having to sell myself, I had to sell credibility. So I wanted to walk in the room where they at least identified me. It's like going to buy a pair of shoes. I'm running a marathon. There's all these tennis shoes. I see, I don't know if this new balance shoe is the right fit, but I know the brand, right? That's the first hurdle. So they at least knew my name. And so I was really intentional about that. And doing that, it's really about being authentic and being consistent in that authenticity. And so when you're purchasing something, they say that you have to see it seven times before you buy it.

26:45Nicole Lynn: You hear it on a commercial, right? You hear it on the radio. Somebody recommends it. You see it in someone's fridge and then finally you buy the mayonnaise. And so I wanted to be, hey, you've seen it seven times. If my brand's, I want to be a hard worker in the office. Oh, my boss saw me stay late. There's one. Someone mentioned it to my boss and said, man, she works really hard. Third time, oh, a client tweeted about how hard I work. Now my brand is, I'm a really hard worker. And so it's about being authentic but consistent over time.

27:12Bonnie Bernstein: How open do we want to be about our brand evolving as we get older and we have more and different experiences walking through life. It's tough.

27:22Nicole Lynn: It's tough. I mean, it can change over time, and as much as you want to control it, the narrative can be put in place for you.

27:31Bonnie Bernstein: I mentioned NIL. If you're in this world, you may or may not have heard that Matt Sluka, who was the quarterback for UNLV, who transferred from Holy Cross, Part of that deal was that he was going to get$100 ,000 in NIL money. It was a handshake deal. It was not in a contract. He was not paid, and he has decided to leave. This is what we will categorize as a new trend now, but I suspect will be a fairly common trend if this process does not get buttoned up. you do not sign college kids who are focusing in the NIL space. And there's a lucrative opportunity there. And I'm just wondering what the why is behind that.

28:20Nicole Lynn: Well, I'll say that we have taken a very conservative approach and sat back and decided to look at what happens in the market, right? Everybody was so excited. And we're like, let's see, we want to educate ourselves on what NIL looks like. We want to make sure that we're prepared. And so I think there's just, it's something that is still being considered. There's pros and cons. NFL players tend to have kind of the lowest retention rate with their agents of all sports, meaning they fire their agents, you know, more frequently than other people. So 300 NFL players switch agents a year. That's a lot more than you're going to see in other sports.

28:55Nicole Lynn: So the hard part is, is it, do you get in early with the player and sign them and lock them up or do you wait because there's a good chance that the NIL agent gets fired and you wait back at the end and then you get them for the draft? I don't have the answer to that. It's something that it's going to take time to explore. I think over the next year or two, we'll definitely see the NIL space change, but no perfect answer on that.

29:17Bonnie Bernstein: The sizzle reel laid out everything that you have done as a trailblazer in representation. What would you consider your greatest accomplishment to date?

29:29Nicole Lynn: Oh, that's tough. I think I have to say being a mom, right? Is that the right answer? No.

29:36Bonnie Bernstein: Sorry, work-wise, as an agent.

29:38Nicole Lynn: Contract you've done, a player you've signed. My husband's somewhere being like, bro.

29:46Nicole Lynn: I don't know. Maybe cliche would be Jalen Steele making him the highest paid player in history. I think that was really cool. It was a cool moment to not be on the women's list. It was a cool moment to just be like, oh, this is the biggest deal done by any agent in the NFL.

30:04Bonnie Bernstein: I'm going to stop you here because you're being very modest. So Jalen's extension, Jalen Hurts, the quarterback for the Eagles, last spring it was five years, $255 million with nearly$180 million guaranteed. And And I think it averaged out to$51 million a year, which at the time... For four days. But that doesn't fit. I mean, still, like, you see that. The Margex was like, hold my beer. But take us back to that moment. Yeah. You've done the negotiating. The deal is there. Jalen needs to sign it. Relive that moment for us.

30:48Nicole Lynn: It was actually really tough. so I was actually seven months pregnant while I was negotiating that deal and I hadn't told anyone. And I had this big grand plan that I was going to do the deal and then I hadn't told Jalen, I hadn't told the Eagles, I hadn't told my friends, I'm going to do the deal first to make sure that no one thinks I can't do it. And then once I do it, then I'll announce I'm pregnant. And I look back and the deal worked out and everything worked out but that was a moment where I covered. I hid a really intimate detail about myself and I'd be remiss not to mention that it was a missed opportunity.

31:19Nicole Lynn: I mean, that was a moment where I could have said, man, moms, people that are pregnant, we can still negotiate, we can still work, we can still show up. But I didn't. And so I don't always practice what I preach. I'm not perfect. And I really struggled with that after the deal. I was really upset that I didn't have the courage to come forward and tell people, like, I'm an expecting mom, but, you know, Jalen, and after I told him, he's like, why did you keep it a secret, you weirdo? But, you know, sometimes there's still that fear, that imposter syndrome we talk about.

31:49Bonnie Bernstein: But you know why it's important? Because you just shared it.

31:52Nicole Lynn: Yeah.

31:53Bonnie Bernstein: And there are a lot of people who still, I come across this in the broadcast industry all the time. We are afraid. It's a little different for us because we're afraid if we have kids and we take maternity leave, somebody's going to replace us and we're never going to get our job back. We hear that with players getting injured all the time. Yep. So thank you for just being vulnerable in that moment. We got a minute and a half left. I'm a big fan of asking, if you had a vision board, I don't know if you do, but in the event you do, even if you didn't, what would be at the top of that vision board in the biggest font?

32:32Nicole Lynn: What do you want to do? Balance.

32:36Bonnie Bernstein: Good luck with that. Let me know how that goes.

32:38Nicole Lynn: Balance. I don't think it's a career goal that would be at the top of the vision board because that's always kind of internal. It's always something I'm working towards and so I don't have to write it on a big vision board to go forward with it. But I think it's figuring out how to be the superstar mom and the superstar wife. I think I do a decent job in my job. I think that's working out. But it's the other pieces of our life and how do you do it all? And I think you can do it all, but maybe not all at the same time. So maybe you're killing it in your work and not maybe killing it at home and being okay with that and finding that balance.

33:11Nicole Lynn: And I always used to say, I don't want to be the poster child of the agent mom now. You know, I don't I'm not killing it. I don't want to be on the cover of that. But figuring out how to just live in that truth and be really comfortable in those titles and that identity. My identity is always put in my work. So what can it look like as a mom? What can it look like as a wife and how can I do all of it?

33:31Bonnie Bernstein: There's something to be said about giving yourself grace. Thank you for gracing us with your time on the stage. Nicole and everybody. Thank you. Dan Kaufman here again, joined by Tiffany Griffiths-Williams, Senior Business Counsel at NFL Players, Inc. Tiffany, Nicole, at one point in the conversation, introduced the concept of covering, the idea that people hide parts of themselves to fit into a dominant culture. What was your reaction when she spoke about that?

33:58Dan Kaufman: To be honest, it was, you know, it reminded me of aspects of my own career at different points. You know, certainly as a person of color and as a queer person of color, I think, you know, oftentimes we're navigating spaces wanting to blend in as much as possible because blending in allows for you to seamlessly be able to do your work and not create controversy, not create questions to kind of silence that perhaps imposter voice that I know Nicole elaborated on in her talk. And so it felt very close to home for me. I think that, you know, when she elaborated on, you know, how for a lot of people the default is to cover, but to kind of counter that and lean into authenticity was such an important, such an important point.

34:45Dan Kaufman: because, you know, authenticity breeds, you know, she talks about consistency and authenticity breeds trust and creating relationships with people. And I'm, you know, a firm believer that relationship building is important. And the only way to build a relationship is to show, you know, vulnerability to others. And I think that others show that with you, share that with you. So I thought the cowering point was particularly, you know, particularly close to home for me.

35:13Bonnie Bernstein: Do you feel like we're doing better as a sports industry and allowing people to show up authentically or is there still a ways to go?

35:20Dan Kaufman: I think it depends on what space you're in, to be perfectly honest. I don't think that any space is exactly the same. You know, speaking from my own personal experience now being at Players Inc., I think that our environment is a space where I feel like I've never had to cower. We really do encourage, you know, whether it's authenticity or being yourself, just really bringing your whole self to the office. And, you know, I think that it really just, again, depends on the space. Certain spaces are more welcoming than others. And I think that for individuals that are, whether you're in sports or you're not, it's really about kind of reading the room a little bit and finding your allies.

36:00Dan Kaufman: I know Nicole talked about this, but finding your mentors, finding your sponsors and figuring out who are your people and also being able to tell where maybe perhaps you have to use a little bit more discretion and what you're willing to share with others.

36:16Bonnie Bernstein: Let's stay on the mentors and sponsors point. I thought that was interesting. She drew a distinction between the two and she said that if she had to choose one or the other, she'd choose a sponsor anytime. Did that resonate with you?

36:29Dan Kaufman: It did. Again, I hate to be a broken record, but there's so many pieces of what she said that really resonated with me. You know, a lot of what she said in that respect is very true. I think that for myself, I've admittedly leaned more into the mentor piece than the sponsor piece. You know, I've been fortunate to have sponsors in my life and in my career. But the mentors have been present for me during each career stop and perhaps even for future career stops. And so, you know, I see the value absolutely in both and finding balance and having both in your life. But in terms of the importance, yes, absolutely.

37:06Dan Kaufman: It's close to home.

37:07Bonnie Bernstein: She came back a few times, Tiffany, to the concept of empathy as a competitive advantage, which I thought was fascinating, especially given who she works with and the business that she works in. What did you make of that? I mean, and then do you see it in other agents, too? Like, is it becoming a competitive end, becoming more prevalent?

37:25Dan Kaufman: So to your first question, it's so crucial. And I can speak to this, obviously, in my role at Players, Inc. You know, even though I work on the business side of the Players Association, we interface with players all the time. And, you know, these players, in addition to the demands on the field, are constantly being approached with business opportunities, whether it's from marketing representatives or from agents. And often seen as a tool for making money, either for those people who are representing them or sometimes it could be family members, whatever it may be. And so I think that leading with empathy is so important with these players because, unfortunately, for some of them, it's been so rare for someone to approach them as the person and not as the player, not as the object, not as the source of income or source of finances.

38:14Dan Kaufman: and even as she was talking about her, I think she talked about it as like her rookie program where she was discussing how all the clients she works with goes through this kind of how to be an adult, you know, from ordering a steak to tying a tie. Like those little things have such a large impact on these players way beyond their playing careers. And so in terms of whether or not it's more prevalent, you know, to be honest, I don't see it that often. And I think part of it is that, you know, perhaps there is a movement towards it. But I think that sometimes agency work is such a competitive business.

38:49Dan Kaufman: It really is. And, you know, I don't know all the statistics on it, but these agents are oftentimes losing clients. It's one of those things where you're fighting another agent, you know, at a different major agency for a client. And so it's balancing the demands of fighting for clients while also, again, leaning into the person.

39:08Bonnie Bernstein: I mentioned at the outset, but she is she's the first black woman to represent an NFL player in the draft. She represents multiple high profile players in the NFL. She's negotiated one of the largest contracts in NFL history. And she's the president of a football division at one of the largest agencies in the world. Five years ago, if I told you that this would be true, everything I just said, would you have believed it?

39:34Dan Kaufman: to be really frank no I think it's I think it's incredible I think it's amazing my hope in prayer is that she's not the last and you know even in my work at PlayersNake I've had the pleasure of meeting a few other black female agents as well and you know there are several names out there that maybe aren't the Nicole Lins but are working their way towards being a Nicole Lynn or their name themselves. And so it's incredible. I hope and I pray again that this is just one of many that are to come or in the making right now. And again, just something she said, I think the key thing is mentorship. And I know that she does that.

40:12Dan Kaufman: She leads with that. And I know that's something that I try to do as well in my work, too.

40:17Bonnie Bernstein: What more beyond mentorship do we need, though, Tiffany? Like you can do your part. Others can do their part. But what more do we need in this industry to make sure that there are more Nicole Lenz that feel comfortable even trying to do what she has done?

40:28Dan Kaufman: Yeah, I think that I mean, there's several things that can be done. I think that, you know, not to overly quote her, but not seeing another person as competition to be fighting for limited resources. I think that that's something that often kind oftentimes comes up in a lot of spaces, whether it's another woman or another person of color. or just another colleague, like just looking at it as there is so much to be had. Why not, instead of looking at the other person as competition, look at them as this is someone that I can learn from, or this is someone that I can shed some, you know, wisdom, you know, with in the work.

41:09Dan Kaufman: And so I think less competition, more empathy, more bringing people in. And I think ultimately that translates to whatever work that you do. In my capacity, it translates to creating more opportunities for players so that, you know, their lives outside of the field looks, you know, just as fruitful as it does on the field. And so I think that that's incredibly important. And hopefully that's something that we see more in our ecosystem that is sports.

41:38Bonnie Bernstein: Tiffany, at one point, Nicole talks about how she approaches business development and how she sees it as a two-way street, so a two-way vetting process. She's making sure that she can be comfortable and deliver for the client at the same time the client is evaluating her. Give me your reaction to that. I mean, my reaction to that is that it says that she's at a point now where she is not just, oh, she got one contract done and she's going to just not do much more and she's not going to be able to do much more. Like clearly she is established in the industry and she's at a point where she can decide what types of clients are going to work right for her.

42:15Dan Kaufman: Yeah, no, I thought it was great. I mean, I think, first of all, it really emphasizes the point that not, you know, and I don't mean this in a negative way against any player, but not all good, not all business is good business. There's that. But I think, too, that for her, it's clear that one piece she was talking about was establishing your personal brand. And it's so clear that she, the amount of work that she put in at the beginning or even maybe the middle of her career to establish her brand has now materialized so much that now, to your point, it's a mutual betting process. Like I'm certain there are plenty of players that reach out to Nicole Lynn and say, hey, I want to work with you because I saw you got this big deal for B.

42:52Dan Kaufman: John Robinson or, you know, this big deal for, you know, Shailen Hurts or whatever it may be. And for her, it's, well, that's great. Thank you so much for reaching out. You know, let's talk a little bit. Let me get a sense of like who you are. What are your goals beyond just being the highest paid, you know, insert position player? and I think that that's just very telling of the work that she's put in to date. I think it's very telling of how she maintains her brand. So, you know, she's not willing to compromise what her brand is for the sake of signing a big name and just, again, the amount of work that is required to not only build a brand but maintain it and to her point control it even when others maybe want to infiltrate and control it in other ways.

43:39Dan Kaufman: So Dan, obviously you have a lot of experience interacting with, asking questions of high level executives in the sports space. I'm just curious from your perspective of, you know, what are some common themes that you've seen in interacting with folks as it comes to building their own personal brands and kind of a second parter of like, have you seen any like overlapping themes with what you've noticed as well as, you know, of what Nicole is pointing out in her talk.

44:06Bonnie Bernstein: Yeah. A lot of overlapping, overlapping themes, actually. Like, I think one thing I've learned is that the industry is relatively small, but this could apply in any large industry, but the sports industry is relatively small and people with good character, people who are respectful and kind tend to rise to the top. That doesn't mean that every person who has been successful in the sports business has been, you know, respectful all the time or kind all the time. But I think that people remember the relationships that you have and they remember the way you treated people. And I have done my best later in my career to recognize that.

44:41Bonnie Bernstein: I think early in my career, I tried to fit into a mold that I felt like was the right mold to fit into for what I want it to be. And it didn't work out. And so I've been more authentic to myself. I've been true to myself. I always try to treat people with respect and kindness. And the overlap in my mind, I think that I try to be is where Nicole talked about excellence and that excellence is a currency and that if you can have people in this industry thinking that you are excellent, that you are respectful, that you are a good person to work with, then that will pay off in the end in many, many different ways.

45:20Dan Kaufman: No, I appreciate that. I can definitely confirm that you exude excellence and we've always had, you know, great, great talks in that respect in terms of just like how you treat others. And I think that that's fairly true. And I definitely that's something I try to lead with as well of, you know, people might not remember what you say, but they remember how they felt after they've interacted with you. And that really does translate and definitely echoing. This is the smallest space. I'm convinced the sports industry is the smallest space. And so, yeah, no, completely agree.

45:52Bonnie Bernstein: Tiffany, what else resonated with you from this conversation with Nicole and Bonnie? And then second part of that question, if you had to leave the audience with something from this conversation, what would you hope they'd take away from it?

46:04Dan Kaufman: Yeah, I would have to say that the Hail Mary conversation, the betting on yourself, taking risk piece, really resonated. I mean, so, you know, as you know, Nicole expounds on how she worked on Wall Street and, you know, realized she wanted to become an agent. And, you know, instead of listening to all the voices outside of her head, she listened to the one in her head that said, hey, bet on yourself. You can go do this. And she she left comfort for her passion. And that deeply resonates with me because I essentially did the same thing now a little over a year ago. And, you know, I don't know. I can't speak to how frightened Nicole was, but I was certainly frightened a little over a year ago when I made that decision to pivot and work in sports.

46:47Dan Kaufman: And it ultimately was the most worthwhile, best decision I ever made for myself. And, you know, I don't know if it was a full Hail Mary pass, but it was something short of that maybe. But, you know, it's it's, you know, my message to the audience or anyone who's contemplating making a move in any respect is to, you know, listen to your gut, listening, listen to the own voice in your head. I think it's very easy to lean on the opinions of others, even the opinions of mentors or sponsors. But at the end of the day, it's your career. It's your life. It's your, you know, we only have so much time here.

47:24Dan Kaufman: And why not do something that you enjoy? Why not do something that you're proud of? Why not do something that fills your cup in ways that you need in your life? So that would be my message to the audience. And shout out to Nicole, because, you know, that is my lived experience as well.

47:43Bonnie Bernstein: Thank you very much, Tiffany. Thanks for joining me on this episode of On Stage. This has been a fantastic discussion. I hope the audience enjoyed it. If you enjoyed it, make sure you subscribe, leave us a review and share with your colleagues. We're back in two weeks with another conversation from the stage featuring leaders shaping the future of sports business. Until next time, stay tuned, stay ahead. This is On Stage.