Building the Lovable of video creation, with Dimi Nikolaou - the Founder and CEO of Wondercraft

0:00Dimi Nikolaou:We were just talking about all the amazing stuff you've done this year, so we're very, very excited to learn more about it. I appreciate it. Very nice to see you again, Paula. Very nice to meet you, Seb. I've been seeing great things. And Paula has shared some cool stuff, so excited to chat about everything. Amazing. We're live right now. We're streaming, and it is so great to have you, so thank you for joining us. And why don't you, you know, we've given a bit of context, but why don't we hear it from yourself? Tell us, like, who you are, what you're building. Yeah, for sure. So we started WonderCraft a couple of years ago.

0:31In the beginning, the goal was to make it possible to create audio content very easily. And, you know, using AI Voices, we recognized that it was very challenging to create a proper podcast. So with the rise of AI Voices, we thought that we can make that flow a little bit easier. And that has been our journey for the past 18 months or so. And we're now evolving into becoming a video platform as well, meaning you will have the capability of creating by leveraging AI tools. And there's two components to that. One is using generative AI models as part of your creation process. But the biggest component and the innovation that we're bringing into this market is having that AI agent that will be next to you to help you in the creative and the editing process.

1:19We've called this AI agent Wanda, you know, as a derivative name of Wondercraft. And Wanda is that creative assistant that can help you to get going. I think what we're finding after we spoke to a lot of people that would be prospective users for video, we recognize that, you know, everyone knows that there's new models out there. There's some cool models from Veo, cool models from Runway. That's just video. Then you have Nano Banana, so many for images, so many for audio, music, sound effects, voice. The challenging thing now is how to leverage all of them to create an engaging video. No one wants AI slop.

2:01Definitely that's not what we're aiming. So the first and primary thing that Wanda does is being aware of all of these models and what each one specializes in. and suggests as part of the creative process, suggests to the user what is it that they need to do. To give you an example, to make this a little bit more concrete, say that I'm the NBA or a basketball association and I want to create an ad. You will go to Wanda. You will describe what the key message is that you want to create and what are the assets that you have available. the more assets, of course, the better. But realistically, you might just have like the logo or a few images, and that can be a good starting point, right?

2:53And then from that point on, you may give a little bit of a creative direction. Like you want it to be like, you want to have a little bit of a mystical approach or you want it to be inspirational. And then it's one of this job to go and suggest that, okay, for this frame, for this scene, we can use runway model to create this for that scene. We can use the other model. This can be like a collection of images. We can use this song or we can generate a new song with the 11 Labs music model, generate sound effects on the spot. So this is a little bit of the vision that we have for the future of video.

3:27This is not something that has been available. And there's many people that create video quite a lot or there's many people that would want to create video and have struggled until now. So we're moving to this space where it's just creating video by chatting to an AI. That's really the innovation that we're bringing to the market.

3:46Dimi Nikolaou:Yeah, it's super interesting because there are so many models out there. And for example, I would say I'm like quite quick to adopt some of them, but you feel a little bit left alone with it, right? You're like, oh, okay, now there's VO3. Now I need to like myself go figure out what it's good at and like for which of my use cases I use it. And so you're like hopping between these things. And if I understand you correctly, you bring all that together. And Wanda is almost like your advisor and your co-editor who tells you, oh, yeah, for that use case, you're going to want to use this model and really helps you navigate that whole stack end to end.

4:22Yeah, that's exactly right, Paula. The way I think about it, it's basically there's three layers to Wondercraft. The first one is it's a video editing platform. There's quite a few of those out right now. There's a second stack, which is an application layer of all of the top generative AI models across all of the modalities. And then finally, there's a third layer of Wanda that's the creative assistant that helps you across everything. So that is the future of Wondercraft. Very cool.

4:54Dimi Nikolaou:Who are your main users now? Sorry, Seb. Yeah. So until now, our product has been very much audio focused and our main users are people that are either creating podcasts or ads or meditations for podcasts. It's not so much the, you know, the Rogan style, the long bantery podcast. It's more so informative podcast conveying some information where we've seen a huge rise is podcasts for internal communications. As an example, the World Bank is a customer using a podcast to convey the research that they do, that their research team does to the rest of the bank in an easy way. But also like many other organizations, Novartis, Siemens, the Harvard Business School, quite a few organizations are using Wondercraft to create the internal communications podcasts.

5:49But apart from that, as I mentioned, the ads use case has been big for us. It's similar to what I was describing before, but for the audio world alone. And for that, think about, you know, there's so many ads. Most of us are on Spotify Premium, so we don't interact with the ads. But Spotify makes about 15 % of its revenue does come from ads, and these ads need to be produced somehow. now. So Spotify uses Wondercraft to create ads on behalf of their brand advertisers. Amazon, something similar for their music streaming service and Alexa. And iHeart does the same. Sirius does the same. So those are a few of the use cases right now.

6:36But everyone, including the companies that I just mentioned, everyone has been asking for video. So that came kind of organically for us because our users wanted it. But our vision grew about what it is that we can do rather than just allow them to add an audiogram and publish it on YouTube. Our vision grew as we were planning on going to video and we decided to make this a very big product which effectively kind of transitions all of our company into video rather than being a supplementary feature to audio. And can I ask about the launch video? I mean, the launch video was phenomenal, went super, super viral.

7:16It had its real moment across social media. Was that what you were expecting or did that go much bigger than you'd hoped? I love that question, Sep. I've been deep into launch videos. I know Paula. Paula is my dear friend, by the way. are so we i gave i already gave the background yeah okay um and uh i know paula pays a lot of spends a lot of time on x as well and it's chaos of uh startups launching right now yeah and it's so good like the the inflation of quality of of launch videos which of course is a product of how much building is happening right now and you need to break through the noise somehow Wow.

8:02But concretely, I appreciate the kind words, Seb. If I expected it, you can never expect it, right? You can never know if you're going to break through the noise. The best you can do is create the best quality that you can. Try for it to be just like contextually relevant to the people that you want to engage on the post and eventually with your company. And then, of course, it's kind of, I guess, like an art. You need to play with the algorithm a little bit, understand that as a concrete example, LinkedIn and X start with muted videos when you're scrolling. Right. So you need to scroll and you have five seconds where you need to grab the attention visually alone.

8:52So, like, how do you do that? And then what are these shots? It needs to be very fast. do you decide to do a product demo or is it like a memory style video like the one we did or is it a founder video that's just presenting what it is you need to make all those decisions and you can never know just to share a little bit more for us it was just a little bit of inspiration of like what were the good launch videos that we had seen before we reached out to find out like who were these people that created those launch videos uh and then worked with them to create this uh to create this this this product and it's been very good like it it created that uh that moment that we wanted um and uh from that point on the wait list for wanda has been growing and we're four weeks out from releasing it to the world in fact just now we released another similar video half an hour earlier before i joined that just announces that just basically keeps that momentum going.

9:52Dimi Nikolaou:Nice. Yeah. You have to go check that out. Yeah, yeah. Go check that out. And do you have like maybe a tangible tip or two for the founders out there who also want to do a really good launch video apart from that they should use Wanda, which they should, but do you have something that you've learned now? I mean, you've also been posting your 40 mistakes videos, which we can get to in a minute, but are there some tangible tips where you're like, ah this is actually something i've learned that can help yeah i mean one thing that actually helps quite a lot you've seen this is not the quality of video but more so um fitting it in on socials um first thing is like you kind of need to optimize for the platform of choice whether it's linkedin whether it's x i would suggest either one of those to begin with um for most of people that are watching this, I can only imagine that those would be the platforms of choice.

10:49These two platforms have developed different languages between them. And depending on which one you want to optimize for, the outcome of the video will be a little bit different. As an example, LinkedIn is a little bit better for founder speaking heads video. on X, most likely that wouldn't go far. And another thing to add here is something that's quite valuable for LinkedIn more so than X is to request someone to comment, for example, comment Wanda to get early access or to bump on the wait list. Many people include that on the caption and that's, of course, step one. It's very easy for you to do that.

11:44But including it in the video itself as the final CTA of the video, if you're launching on a wait list, for example, to say comment one dot to get X, like basically just say what you're including in the caption. That was very significant for us. For X, for example, we didn't even have that caption and people were commenting quite a lot. So include that as like the very last part because that engagement is very important. So you need to like push people towards the engagement. And a final thing, of course, but that's just for like every post, like just make sure that the day that you're launching, you have some like some people to boost that launch in the beginning.

12:27Because you just need to get the algorithm recognizing that this is something different. Yeah.

12:34Dimi Nikolaou:And you I mean, you seem to now also be building in public kind of double clicking on on the storytelling you've been doing around your 40 mistakes while building the company. How has that been going? What has been your thought process behind it? What's the main goal? And are you fulfilling that goal? yeah um so i guess there were two objectives from this one the first one was in full transparency to keep a little bit of attention going on us and build community until we release wanda um uh this so you know it was 40 days between the uh release the announcement of wanda and then 40 until the launch of Wanda.

13:21That's kind of like what instigated that title. Concretely, how that was formulated, just saw a couple of people doing something similar with their own style on X, just doing that daily. And I found that quite inspiring. I do feel quite comfortable in sharing, in speaking in that kind of medium. him. I've always felt inspired by creators like Casey Neistat that just did that daily. And then when I say that, I mean, I'm only doing 0.1 % of what Casey Neistat did. But being on the camera daily and building that consistency and building that community, I know that it adds value. I saw some other people doing something similar right now.

14:08And I just thought, what is something interesting that I can share? I've made a lot of mistakes on building. I'm proud to say it, right? Like it's, it is, I'm proud to have gone down this journey that led to me making the mistakes. And I know that there's others that are making the mistake, making the mistakes at this time. And if there's something that I can do to help for others not to make these mistakes, then fantastic. The startup community is one for the better. That's something that I could share, something that I knew that can build some community around it, which is important for me. So I thought I will give something to the community so that when the time comes, I can also ask for something, which is the support on launches.

14:51So that's concretely like the thought process around it. In terms of how it's been going, that has also gone super well. A lot of DMs that are not seen on the comments of people being very happy about this and that they are following every day. And I guess like that's the only thing I need to to keep going. It is tiring. It takes longer than it takes. Paula, I know you're an influencer now.

15:16Dimi Nikolaou:Don't say that. It takes longer. Yeah. It takes longer than the, than the three, four to five minutes that you see. It takes like about an hour and a half a day to think about, to shoot, to edit. But it is what it is. We've, we've gone down this path and we're going to keep going. wow that's amazing that's like a big commitment an hour and a half a day yeah no yeah no that's super interesting because it it seems very I've watched I've watched like probably half of them it feels very organic very natural it doesn't feel like this is something that's that's like you put a lot of planning into it that's what people want you to think yeah of course of course I've been I've been tricked I mean you you're a content creator you know this yeah of course of course no this is super interesting that you're willing to commit at the time and I guess you know are you kind of betting big now on content and yeah you know that building yeah there's two things to it in all fairness I didn't know it would take an hour and a half so I kind of went into it uh unknowingly I'm in it now I'm gonna keep going the second thing is it does kind of uh fit in well with what we're doing right like I do believe that I can um start spicing it up with editing it properly on with together with Wanda so that it can evolve into something different so I think that eventually this this this series my goal is that it will evolve into maybe a little bit of a different production and I will also be able to highlight Wanda through it while also I will have built some community behind it all this yeah eat your own dog food that yeah exactly that makes sense i mean but yeah it's it's pretty crazy like this fine line what i think a lot about so for the audience i do like some some very inconsistent tick-tocking and instagramming um with video and i'm always like tempted to want to use more ai tools and like want to use everything that's out there but it is such a learning curve and to like make that good it takes longer than just pointing the camera at your face so it's like we're at a funny moment right now and maybe that will change once we have Wanda but we're at a funny moment right now where I'm like using an AI tool now even though it'd be so cool would cost me then three hours and I do not have three hours so I'm just gonna share a quick insight and be done with it so it's like an interesting cusp I'm totally with you and Paula if I may say congratulations on huge success on your social so far it's very cool to be seeing that um and honestly the the insights that you're sharing, I told you this as well, a couple of days ago, the insights that you're sharing for people outside our bubble that know what's going on in tech space, what are the startups?

18:04It's super, super useful, right? Like I have so many friends that are, they keep asking me, but like, I don't know as much as you keep asking me like what they should be looking at. I remember even Vicky, before she joined Eleven Labs, we were looking at like, what are AI startups and you know we were depending on on people like you i remember actually i was checking ben lang back there and um that shared like top 20 top 20 startups to join um and uh i love that you're doing that paula for a for a different part of um for in a different channel which which goes to different people as well yeah thanks but this is about you yeah this is perfect what's your tag we're gonna like clip this up put it out there get everyone following you um no i'm a big fan of your content it's great it's really super cool we're i always get out the popcorn when the when the 40 mistakes hit very happy to hear do we have seb do we have a a minute or so more or i think so yeah and i'm conscious we're like two minutes over time to me have you got a couple more minutes because we've got more questions if you're if you're around Yeah, yeah.

19:14Happy to stick around, Seb. Amazing. Let's do it. I wanted to talk, you recently hit$2 million ARR, which is just an amazing feat. So congratulations on that. I wanted to talk about like, what do you think is going to take you to that next milestone? And do you think it's going to be, you know, can you see the waiting list for Wando already starting to, or can you imagine it converting and getting you to 5 million, 10 million? What does that kind of roadmap look like? yeah uh yeah for sure so thank you for the kind words seb um to be to be completely transparent with you the way that we view this is that uh this is very much just the beginning and that's kind of the reason why i was so happy or so you know wanted to be transparent like i was okay in being transparent with these numbers we basically view anything that we've done until now with audio as our starting ground.

20:08And from this point on, it's where we're taking off with video. So it's actually easy to answer your question because it touches on everything that we've been saying until now, right? Which is the way to growth here is like us evolving into becoming a video platform. And then in terms of next exact steps, we were joking before, but like we genuinely do want to make Wondercraft and Wanda the home of launch videos. um yes we think that we think that there's a lot going on right now and we want all of the startups to be creating we actually um have uh uh someone joining the team that has been building for we basically hired someone that has been doing launch videos just for that intent uh so that's one apart from that of course like just creating ads what is a launch video at the end of the day it's an ad um so creating ads very fair for for companies um and generally going a little bit for that s smb a little bit of plg growth to begin with uh playing big on um x and uh linkedin um and we have some other uh some other parts in our growth uh in our gtm playbook right now that um are going to be our immediate strategy and following that in 2026 we're gonna start entering the enterprise space as well.

21:28Amazing. Very exciting.

21:29Dimi Nikolaou:I have one more. I have to get off my chest. One more question. What is the next thing after launch videos? Because if my whole Twitter feed is launch, launch, launch, launch, launch, am I just going to watch launch videos all day or is there the next iteration and do you have a prediction what it is? Oh, that's so interesting. I haven't thought about that. Obviously, I would want it to just stay at launch video, but everyone can keep creating one that one that one that style videos um look honestly unfortunately my view is pessimistic on this one i think that we are a little bit on uh in a bubble right now uh it's it's very easy for people to be starting and there's a lot of capital going on and it's easy for people to be spending um that capital on launch videos or some of it and i feel like that's not going to continue um hopefully it does but like if if the past is any indication of the future um there won't be as many startups in 26 if not 26 27 and as a result things will start switching a little bit to going back to like fdvcs um solopreneurs um and uh solopreneur like and yeah just build build in public a little bit more rather than having these high production launch videos that's kind of like how how i see things will play out again i don't like this future i just think it's the it's it's likely the most probable one but to be honest like even if it's not the launch video i think video itself is here to stay i think for you whatever today it's the launch video tomorrow maybe it's the retention video where it's a lot more about let's really build the community let's get people to use this in the long run and let's not just launch it um exactly that video video is here to stay um there's no question in my mind there's no yeah there's no question that video is the language of the internet um and paula what you're like you're doing exactly that like you've gone you're going viral because you're putting a medium that many people see in text but you're putting it into video and in the adjustable format so you know everyone needs to be creating videos some people find it a lot easier to be in front of the camera some not some need assist creative assistance and that's kind of like where we're stepping in to help here yeah i love it amazing well dimmy thank you how many days till wonder uh four weeks four weeks 15th of 15th of october okay okay so we have a pair uh if i can plug one final thing um on the 15th of October, we have this grand finale, which is going to be similar to this live stream.

24:15These 10 people that we've selected from our user base are going to be creating our launch video. We've asked them to, they got access to Wanda and they're going to be creating the launch video for us. And there's a$25 ,000 on the line for the winner. And we have four judges that are all big in the creator space that will assess on that day, who will win that$25 ,000 based on the 10 videos that they've created. And you can actually vote today on wondercraft.ai slash challenge for the winner. They all have videos there. Feel free to check it out and attend that grand finale. It's going to be epic to see who's going to win that big prize.

24:59No way. That's so cool. So you can see all 10 videos right now on your website? Only seven of them. Seven. We're releasing one contestant each day and we're at day seven. No way. I'm definitely going to check them all out. That's really cool. And then you're going to be live streaming the judging panel. Super interesting. I think that's like...

25:18Dimi Nikolaou:Share, let's put that under, let's share that somewhere for people to... For sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's super cool. I'll definitely check it out and talk about it. It's really interesting. Amazing. And Seb, congrats to you as well. You're doing great things. Love the fact that you're Europe-focused. Go Europe. I'm based out of London in case that wasn't clear. And obviously very big fan of everything that's going on in Europe, some awesome stuff all around. Amazing day yesterday as well with Sanaa getting aired. It's just so cool to be seeing a lot of activity, both in Europe and in acquisitions.

25:52And yeah, Seb, big fan, big supporter, keep going. No, thank you, man. Likewise. Yes, it's never been so exciting, I think, in European tech. and I just love talking about it and posting about it on LinkedIn. So living the dream. Dimit, thank you so much for joining us.

26:10Dimi Nikolaou:Good having you. Yeah, we're going to be watching, we're going to be sharing, we're going to be voting on those videos. But yeah, looking forward to Wanda going live. Thanks, guys. Nice to meet you. Yeah, you too, Dimit. Bye, Paula. Good morning. Bye-bye. Bye.