Jesse Cole | He Was $1M in Debt… Now 5 Million People Want His Tickets

0:00You own a baseball league, my man. Banana ball championship league. I realized I loved playing the game, but watching the game bored out of my mind.

0:06Jesse Cole: And I said, how do you bring back that same love? And so you had to change the experience. Mr. Jesse Cole, you and your wife went a million dollars in debt to be able to build the scene. Everyone expected us to fail, and we did. We sold two tickets in our first few months. And on January 15th, 2016, I got the phone call. We were out of money. Couldn't make payroll. So we had to sell our house, empty our savings account, sleeping on an airbed. We were down to nothing. What were some of those early changes that you made to the game that got more people to show up to the park? One experiment can change everything.

0:29Jesse Cole: I was meeting with a company and trying to get them to come out to this college summer baseball team. They're like, no, we don't like baseball. You're at the lowest level. We're not going to come. I'm like, no, it's different. It's a show. And she's like, well, what do you guys do differently? And I was like, well, the players dance. She goes, they do? I go, yes, yes, they do. At that point, they never dance. You did something incredible. Literally create a new sport. The greatest innovation starts from putting yourself in the customer's shoes and saying, what are the friction points? What are the frustration points?

0:52Jesse, if all of us sitting here were to die tomorrow and you could leave one last guiding principle with the younger generation, what would that be? what's going on everyone welcome back to the school of hard knocks podcast i'm james here with jack and josh and we have an incredible guest for you all today as you can see we're not in a podcast studio right now we're at the texas rangers stadium and we are sitting down with mr jesse cole you own a baseball league my man how does that feel genuinely and this is not just a small baseball league i mean you started banana ball championship league uh fans first entertainment and have really, I mean, this thing has not just national, but now global notoriety, which is just fascinating.

1:31What does that make you feel?

1:33Jesse Cole: Well, it's special, but it's an iteration. You know, I started with a, you know, as a GM, I actually started as an intern first of a college summer team for two months. Then I became a GM of a college summer baseball team, did that for years, then finally became a managing partner, then bought that team, then started a brand new team, expansion team with my wife at 31 years old, you know, college summer baseball, then turned this into Banana Ball, then started adding teams. So it's just, it's a 20 year plus process. So some people it's like, they just bought a baseball team and there's something like this is 20 years to get here.

2:01Jesse Cole: Every year, just getting a little bit better, adding things for that's better for the fan experience. So I don't think about what does it feel like? I don't feel like, what are we going to do next for our fans? How do we create a better experience? But you didn't just start out as a GM, right? I mean, to build the scene, you and your wife went a million dollars in debt to be able to build the scene. You guys sold the house. I mean, talk to us about, what were those early sacrifices that you had to really make? It was brutal. I mean, it was brutal. 31 years old my wife was 28 we just got married we got the keys to this new team in savannah georgia professional baseball for 90 years there we're coming in as this caller summer baseball team everyone expected us to fail and we did we were marketing like everyone else doing social media like everyone else we were scared we were trying to fit in and we failed we sold two tickets in our first few months and uh yeah on january 15th 2016 got the phone call we were out of money had to uh couldn't make payroll so we had to sell our house empty our savings account sleeping on an airbed and we were down nothing and I remember just like what are we gonna do well we got to get to that first game and I think a lot of people you know you talk and you talk about what you're gonna do you got to keep showing up and get to that first game we knew if we could get to that first game and show people what we could do we could create fans and so that first game we went all out we had the banana nana senior citizen dance team we had you know a banana babe we had players dancing we had we broke down the barriers between players and fans we had every ticket all inclusive so all your burgers hot dogs chicken sandwiches soda water was included with the ticket everything and fans felt something different and was getting to that day that changed everything but you know what I think because before the podcast started yeah I mean you were kind of having a little one-on-one conversation and you told me he said what is it that you'd like to do and you said that you need to follow your energy and wherever that takes you is it safe to say if you didn't have the passion and genuine love for the game that you did when you started this thing you would not be you wouldn't be here today yeah because you wouldn't be able to get through the burnout you wouldn't been able to get through when you're going to get having to make those decisions but the crazy thing is not love for the game I realized I loved playing the game but watching the game I didn't love as much and I said how do you bring back that same love and so you had to change the experience and so what I love that energy was creating something non-stop entertainment non-stop fun you know I probably have every form of ADHD there is and and what I realized is that like you got to make it non-stop exciting and I follow my energy my energy is creating sharing growing just like you you say content fires you up for me it was all right what am I going to do every single day to create something that fans I've never seen before.

4:13Jesse Cole: And that's where I fell in love with the show more than just the game. But you didn't go to a local minor league game and get the inspiration to start doing the programming that you got. So where did that creative niche come from? Because I sat in a dugout, never forget it. Coaching in the Cape Cod. Like everyone thought, you played ball, you go into coaching. That's the natural. I'm sitting in the dugout and I'm watching and I get the best scene in the house, the best players. I know what's about to happen. And I'm bored out of my mind. The greatest innovation starts from putting yourself in the customer's shoes and saying, what are the friction points?

4:40Jesse Cole: What are the frustration points? What do people not like about something? And I was sitting there just like I remember Walt Disney, one of my biggest role models. He sat at Griffith Park with his two daughters. And he was sitting there. They were riding on the carousel. And he said, man, I wish there was a place adults and kids could have fun together. That's where his inspiration came. He said, why can't we do so? You know, just all the kids ride and the parents sit and watch. Why can't there be something we can do together that can be fun? That's where Disney land. I sat there and I said, can't there be a place that adults and kids can actually have fun and enjoy a game of baseball, but it's not just like, hey, this is what happens on the field.

5:13Jesse Cole: It's a show. It's entertainment. Every moment, there's something happening. I was recently asked if I could interview any entrepreneur, dead or alive, who would that be? And I said Walt Disney because we always like to say picture and imagine this guy going decades back, going to banks with this idea of this fictitious amusement park, trying to sell people to give them a loan to be able to build out Disney World. I mean, it's just fascinating what he had. What have you learned from studying Walt Disney? Give me some of the real takeaways and the actionable steps that you've implemented into, you know, banana ball that, you know, have really stuck with you.

5:44What have you learned about studying Walt Disney?

5:45Jesse Cole: Well, Walt Disney was obsessed about what's next. So you think about it, you talk about the theme park, but first it was the, he had the animation. And so he said, all right, we're going to be the first color animated film. We're going to be the first one that has a sound. We're going to then do the first full length animated film. He kept pushing the envelope on what could happen. That was everything. He was saying, what's next? What's that next innovation? But what he did better than anyone else is he put himself in his guest shoes. When he built Disneyland, he put an apartment above the fire station at Disneyland just so he could be there and walk the park every single day.

6:15Jesse Cole: He would have a hot dog and he'd have the wrapper and he'd finish when the hot dog was done. He'd say, oh, this is where a trash can needs to go because he put himself in the shoes. He would literally go on all the rides. He said, whenever I go on a ride, I'm always asking what's wrong with this thing and how can it be improved? Everyone talks about the joy Walt Disney brought, but he was an obsessive perfectionist on how to make it better every single day. That's what I learned from him. He had a vision that's bigger than anyone else, But his vision starts with creating a magical experience for his guests from watching the animations from Snow White and, you know, all the great movies he made to creating Disneyland.

6:45Jesse Cole: And that's what I obsess over every day. Jesse, I think, you know, being deemed to be the GM of a sports team at 23 years old is a pretty interesting situation to find yourself in. But what was cool probably about that story is that you realize you're like, hey, in order for me to really take this to the next level, I need to increase the attendance of people coming to the park. And so what were some of those things that you did early on, which I think probably laid the foundation for a lot of the stuff that you guys do here in Banana Bowl? Like, what are some of those early things that you figured, like, how could I make this game more entertaining?

7:15You know, so many people look at, like, MLB today, and they're just kind of like, hey, you know, what rule changes need to be put in place to help with the pace of play and stuff like that? For you guys, back then in the early days, what were some of those early changes that you made to the game that got more people to show up to the park?

7:30Jesse Cole: Well, it's other ones that didn't work. Flatulence Fun Night, Grandma Beauty Pageant. salute to underwear night, dig to China night. We failed so many times at the beginning. But I read every book about P.T. Barnett, read about Walt Disney, Circus Soleil, WWE, constantly studying the greats, studying the ones from the entertainment standpoint, who did better than anyone else. And yeah, I mean, what we started doing was just trying new things. The big game changer for us. One experiment can change everything. I was meeting with a company and trying to get them to come out to this college summer baseball team.

7:56Jesse Cole: They're like, no, we don't like baseball. You're lowest level. We're not gonna come. And I'm like, no, it's different. It's a show. And she's like, well, what do you guys do differently? and I was like well the players dance and she goes they do I go yes yes they do at that point they never dance but I was just like that's something whatever's normal do the exact opposite and players dancing is not normal so she's like that's interesting we're still not going to come but I watched a reaction so I actually brought a dance instructor the first product said guys we're going to learn how to dance and most of the guys said no and most and when you start something beginning most people will say no when they had four players that said they're willing to do it but they did the jump on it dance the crowd went nuts the next day they're signing more autographs than anyone else.

8:32Jesse Cole: The third day, literally, a husband and wife are talking, and the husband's trying to talk to the wife. The wife goes, shut up, honey. They're about to dance. And that little one experiment changed everything. And so that dance thing, now we have players on Dancing with the Stars. We're on the New York Times, a full story on dancing. We have a dancing umpire. We have a Banana Nana Senior Citizen dance team. Dance has become a big part of what we do. It was one experiment. And so the question is quantity leads to quality. You need to do more to be able to find out what actually works. And it seems that it's like it's not even just about like the entertainment factor of it.

9:03It's also, I feel like so many people who maybe grew up playing sports, like they're just seeing people doing what sports was intended to do, which is just really have fun while playing the game. When you have fun, you perform better.

9:13Jesse Cole: Anything you do, when you have fun, you perform better. But yeah, it started with entertainment. But then again, putting yourself in the customer's shoes, the fan's shoes, our fans started leaving games early. You know, you don't go to a great movie in the middle of the movie like, oh, it was great. I'm going to leave. Like you just don't leave movie like, oh, that concert was amazing. I left in the middle. But that happens at every single baseball game in the world. They leave early because they might not miss anything. I got to catch the traffic. Get out early, all that. And I was like, that's a fundamental problem.

9:38Jesse Cole: So then how do you make a game better? We looked at every single rule. All right, mound visits. Is there one person that's like, you know what? I'm coming to the night. I hope there's a lot of mound visits. I just, I want to see a lot of mound visits. No one wants that. You know, think about this. Batters stepping out of the box. And then how do you involve the fans? The name of our company is Fans First. What if fans catch a foul ball? It's an out. You know, that type of thing makes a difference. And so then we started changing the rules because we were watching the friction from people getting bored when they were looking up, when they were looking down, all those things.

10:03Jesse Cole: That's what we study religiously, just like Walt Disney. I want to talk about that too. Like, let's go back to this whole concept of Walt Disney. I want to talk about the inspiration you took. When I think about an amusement park, for example, right, they have all these different verticals, the cost to enter, the merchandise, the food, all that. What are the different verticals of Banana Ball? Because I think you sold, what, like$50 million worth of merchandise so far throughout the existence. You guys are doing some crazy numbers of the raving fans that you have. What are the different verticals in terms of the monetization of Banana Ball?

10:32Jesse Cole: Yeah, well, again, who do you work for? Most companies, they might work for shareholders. They might work for investors. And they have to find every single opportunity to make money. For us, it's a little different. We work for our fans. So I'd rather talk about where we don't make money. So let's start by there. Every team, sponsorship, advertising, everywhere. No, we have zero. We've eliminated all of our partners. Why? Why? Why? Because does anybody come to a ballpark to be advertised to? Do you come, you know, I'm going to come to the stadium. No, I hope I see lots of ads. I want to see every announcement.

11:01Jesse Cole: I want to get everyone. Because if anything, what happens? There's nothing wrong with brand deals. And there's value when it can add value. A hundred percent. And we've had some good partners throughout the years. But then you're also working for someone else. We have to do something to make sure that they get their deliverables every single day. For me, I want to work for our fans in every decision we make. Not have announcements. Not have things that are given away. Not have things. It's completely counterintuitive. But you know what happens? We right now have a wait list of tickets. For our fans, that's over 5 million.

11:26Jesse Cole: Our fans support us more than we ever could imagine, more broadly than any team in the world. And so tickets, our fans buy tickets. Our fans buy merchandise. That's our business model. And we're extremely healthy. Every single game is free on YouTube. So we do games on ESPN, Disney, all that. We do that as well, but it's non-exclusive. We're the only sports team in the world that does non-exclusive deals. And we throw away hundreds of, probably over$100 million in that. If we did exclusive deals, so then it wasn't. But we want it free for every single fan on YouTube, no matter what. So we will sacrifice profits to create long-term fans.

12:00Jesse Cole: We are obsessed with that. Long-term fans over short-term profits. It's tickets, it's merchandise, and the business is as healthy as we could ever imagine. Guys, we're about to get right back to the podcast with Jesse Cole. But before that, look, one of the biggest things Jesse talks about throughout this entire episode is the importance of attention. He's built Banana Ball by constantly creating experience people have never, ever seen before. Because when you create something worth paying attention to, you create fans. And ultimately, you create a business that can grow. And the same exact thing applies to your sales and marketing.

12:30Capturing attention is one thing, but what's even harder is turning that attention into actual revenue for your business. And that's why we use HighLevel across our businesses at the School of Hard Knocks. And it's not just myself and my two other co-founders. Some of the most successful entrepreneurs I know in me in today's world are using HighLevel as an all-in-one sales and marketing system to help scale their businesses. High Level helps you manage your CRM. It helps you build out your calendar. It helps automate text messages and emails. And it automatically follows up with prospective clients.

12:59So you're not having to chase them down. Because guys, it's easy to have five, 10 different things going on in your business. But High Level helps automate it all for you and systemize your sales and follow-up process. So you're not having to pay for five or 10 different software. So waste no more time and start using High Level right now in your business by going down, clicking the link in the description of this video and starting your free trial with High Level today. Now, with that being said, Let's get back to the episode. Most MLB stadiums and just leagues, they charge an arm and a leg for tickets.

13:28You guys are charging very fair and reasonable prices for people to attend your games. Despite the demand as well. Despite the demand, a waiting list, you said over 5 million people. What was the thought process of, look, I don't even care about making a ton of money on the tickets. I'm going to make money other ways. And what are those other ways in which you do make money to make up for, you know, making the game so accessible for the fans?

13:51Jesse Cole: Tickets and merchandise. That's our business. That's over 90, 95 % of our business. But when you sell 3.4 million tickets, all right, and you sell your merchandise number was very conservative. We're very fortunate. Our fans support us tremendously. And we found that, you know, when they come to a game and they're not paying an arm and a leg, they're not paying hundreds of dollars, it's worth it. And, again, they want to support you. We have so many fans that get tattoos of not just the bananas of all of our other teams. We have six teams. And everywhere they go, not just the bananas, is they're selling out Major League stadiums.

14:21Jesse Cole: So the bananas might be here right now. We have the party animals have sold out a Major League stadium in Cleveland. And so that's the type of support that's happening all over the country. And so I think we're very clear on who we are and who we work for, and that is the fans, and the numbers take care of themselves. I would imagine you've probably, and I don't know if you're able to talk about this, but you've probably been approached and talked to by some people in Major League Baseball. Can you share what have some of those conversations been like? Have they wanted to collaborate with you?

14:48I mean, it's undeniable now. Right. It's like, you know, I'm sure that you love the saying in this movie, but if you build it, they will come. Yeah. And you've built it. Have you had conversations with people like that? And if so, what is that like?

14:59Jesse Cole: Yeah. I mean, Major League Baseball has been very supportive. You know, obviously, we work with almost every single Major League team. We work NFL. We've had great relationships with them as well as working with numerous teams there. But, yeah, I mean, the Major League Baseball office, we've had conversations. I mean, I think they've done some great innovative things over the last few years to make the games faster. But, you know, collaboration, it's two different systems. You know, it's two different systems. There's a lot of moving parts in Major League Baseball. You got the players union, you got the owners, you got the commissioner's office.

15:21Jesse Cole: You know, we just have us and our fans. It's myself, my wife, our team. We own this. There's no one else. And so we can make decisions very clearly what's for fans that might be counterintuitive to other ways of driving revenue, driving sponsorship, driving sales. And so, you know, it's just it's a different model. And, you know, I think there might be an opportunity to collaborate in the future and do some fun things. Obviously, we've had numerous MVPs, Hall of Famers, Cy Young Award winners play with us. And, you know, we have all stars and, you know, World Series champions that play with us full time now.

15:47Jesse Cole: And there's going to be a lot more major leaguers that play with us full time. That's going to continue to grow. I always like to ask, you know, let's say just for example, I'm interviewing a big tech entrepreneur. And they have clients such as like a Facebook or like a TikTok. I want to ask you this because I think this is incredibly, it's so interesting. Can you share with us the first time that you went about, because again, we're not, you're not playing these games at a minor league field. Like you were literally playing this in the Rager Stadium. You were playing in football stadiums. You were playing in like the biggest stadiums in the world right now.

16:14Now, can you share with us how you went about getting into that first massive major sports stadium? How was it getting the foot in the door? Because I would imagine you had to do some serious convincing.

16:24Jesse Cole: Just find one. It takes one. Who was it for you? Mobile, Alabama. I'm going to start a little small stadium, Hank Aaron Stadium. And we announced we're going to do the one-city world tour. This mindset. Start small, dream big. We called it a world tour. We still call it a world tour, and we haven't gone international yet. We always call it a world tour because that's where we're going. Dream big. And so we got one city. We went to all these states. Hey, we want to bring Banana Ball. They're like, no, what's Banana Ball? I mean, this is 2021. Everyone said no. And then finally, one town, the mayor said, oh, yeah, Jesse, I read your first book.

16:53Jesse Cole: Yeah, well, what's it going to take? I go, what's it going to take? What do you have in mind? And they said, well, what if we do this and we give you this and we give this? I'm like, perfect. And then we went there and we delivered. Sold up both nights, delivered. Then next year, you get seven to say yes. And then you have 33 cities to say yes. And then we had to get that first major league stadium to say yes. And so we had 30 options. we found one that believed in us enough and we said we are going to deliver and put on the greatest show and greatest experience that was houston and then from there we went to fenway and then the first nfl stadium you got to get one so so many have said no so many have said no but then once you start proving and you deliver and you have sold out crowds and you know we have 90 95 redemption of our tickets which is unheard of in the industry and so when they're showing up and they're creating a moment and fans are getting hours early and filling up all the hotels the economic impact That's another small form of revenue.

17:40Jesse Cole: You know, we have economic impact and tourism. I mean, we're selling out hotels. In Charlotte, when we went to the Panther Stadium,$38 million economic impact. They sold out almost all the hotels. So fans are coming from all over. So when we deliver that over and over again, you start having the biggest stadiums, the Yankee Stadiums and the Superdomes, and everyone starts saying yes. But there's some that have said no year in, year out, year in, year out. They continue to say no. And then maybe one time they'll say yes. Or maybe they won't, and we'll keep doing our thing. And there are in Banana Ball six teams right now?

18:07Yes. Six teams. Where is it going? And five years from now, Jesse, tell me where Banana Ball is going to be at. Tell us.

18:13Jesse Cole: Well, we write a vision. We wrote a vision about the Banana Ball five years ago and now to be doing it at a major league stadium with all six of our teams and the biggest performance of our lives. We wrote that. We share that. So our goal is very simple. It's to create fans. I believe we're going to create one billion fans, one fan at a time. We played in front of just 100 ,000 fans five years ago. We're playing in front of 3.4 million this year. We'll play in front of 4.5 million next year and 5 million. We're going to keep growing the fans. Yeah. Do I believe we're going to create fans in different countries?

18:40Jesse Cole: Do I believe there'll be banana ball Mexico and banana ball Japan, banana ball Europe? Do I believe that? A hundred percent. But it's going to take years. Sometimes I underestimate how fast we've grown. I never knew that. But sometimes you also got to be strategic and say, you know what? We're going to make sure we find that right stadium, that right fit, that right city, that right market. And once we get that, we're going to go full steam ahead. And that could take more years, but we'll see. And you are doing all this. I know you talk about this on interviews, on podcasts. You're doing all this without a big billionaire backing you.

19:07We do all this with outside capital too. And that's very important to say as well. Yeah.

19:11Jesse Cole: And money's my, you know, fortunately, you know, Walt Disney said this, he goes, money doesn't excite me. Ideas excite me. You know, I'm the same thing, man. You know, yes, we continue to get valued at a billion dollars. And I think it's just crazy because I don't even think about that. It means nothing to me. What it means, if you keep creating fans, keep creating something that matters, the money takes care of itself. I want to look back in 100 years and say there's a billion fans all around the world that come out every day and have fun. And then the business will be healthy. You did something that's incredible, which is to literally create a new sport.

19:41Outside of just marketing and awareness to create a new league, what's the biggest unexpected challenge to create something new, like a new sport that most people wouldn't understand or actually don't know of?

19:51Jesse Cole: Keep it fresh every single day. The hardest thing, the hardest thing, once you start, you can get started, and that can be a journey, but once you get started, how do you keep it new, fresh, exciting, innovative every single day and keep pushing the envelope? content creators, everyone. You find one formula that works, and then you stay with it. What's that new experiment, that new test? And so every night we're doing 10 to 15 things we've never done in front of a live crowd. Every year we're testing new things, football stadiums, cruise ships. There'll be a lot more announced in the next couple months.

20:19Jesse Cole: We test those. They may fail, but once we learn from them, we get better. We want to be the fastest learning organization in sports. So the biggest challenge is how do you show up every day with new, innovative ideas and be willing to fail. be ready to actually fail in front of 40 ,000 fans or 100 ,000 fans that's the challenge um because I have this big fear I every day I think you know this could all go away and the only way to go away is if we stop doing new things for our fans stop pushing the envelope get comfortable and we settle with oh no it's a good show it's fine fine is the f-bomb in our organization if you still do something that's just fine I ain't gonna cut it we have to be excellent we have to be obsessed and some people that you know maybe it's not the best for but I'll tell you the people that really want to achieve their purpose and feel like they're the best version of myself they push themselves to different limits and that's what I see our team do every day and our players who do trick plays and things people have never seen before every night our players are doing something that you ever seen before in a baseball field they practice that every single day working hard on that that is special and that's what I want to see in the next five ten years that you come out and I can't believe what they did you wouldn't believe what they did at the stadium you wouldn't believe where they played.

21:24Jesse Cole: You wouldn't believe how they did this. And if everyday people are saying that, we're going to have some fun over the next 100 years. You know, coining the phrase, take what's normal, do the opposite. How long have you been wearing the yellow suit? Well, I learned from P.T. Barnum. If you're going to put on a show, it can't be just dressed like everyone else. And also, you know, I believe in giving permission to our people to have fun. Think about what the normal way. An owner's up in a box, and he's meeting with people, and owners do very great work. But me, I'm in the show. I'm going to be out interacting.

21:52Jesse Cole: I'm be throwing out dolce and banana underwear in the crowd i'm gonna be taking selfies with fans i'm gonna be singing up in the upper deck because you know what i want to be a part of it and that's how you learn everyone in business they say oh you know hey you don't want to be in the weeds you know get you know work on your business not working your business i disagree you gotta get your hands dirty you gotta be with your fans be with your customers get in the weeds you know i never forget my wife you know we were at this championship game four years ago five years ago and the grounds crew didn't come in savannah and literally there's weeds out in the field she's out there on her hands and knees cutting them with scissors, which is crazy, but she was out there for hours because that's what it matters.

22:26Jesse Cole: And I think owners should do the same thing. And I think anybody who's in a business, get in the weeds, get there, show that you're willing to put the work. And you know, for me, I'm going to make sure one of the most important things for us is that we have fun and that spreads and it's contagious. So I'm going to make sure I'm having fun every day and dress like I'm having fun and not be like any other owner. Well, I think so many entrepreneurs are just people that want to create things could learn from this. I mean, even before like the podcast started and we have like a big game today, it's like you're looking at every little piece of the stadium to see, you know, is that fan that's sitting in any particular seat going to have an amazing experience?

22:59You know who it reminded me of is Steve Madden. Steve Madden, the shoes, you know, built that company into a multi-billion dollar company. When we were out with him in New York, we always like to tell people about this, you know, in between doing an interview and a podcast with him, he literally would like stop random women on the street and just go, Where'd you get those shoes from? And like, he wasn't like, he was like organically just having conversations with them. And like, that's exactly what it reminded me of. If you could, and I know Jack, you were probably going here, walk us through the mind of Jesse Cole when you, when you're in this baseball stadium, just like you did when I asked you, like what you're thinking about, I want you to analytically for the, you know, like, cause this is, this is genuinely what you were doing.

23:35What do you look at when you come here, when you're behind home plate at Rangers stadium? What is it that you're looking for?

23:40Jesse Cole: Well, it starts well before that. So every morning I run. And the first thing I do is I run around the stadium. So I was four in the morning. I'm running around the stadium, I'm looking at laps, I'm looking at where they're parking, where they're coming in, what the stage setup is, how's the fencing, where's the plaza setup, all those details, because you want to put yourself in the fan's shoes. That's everything. So I'm saying, all right, are they going to come in here? What's the first thing they'd see? Do they see the big stage? How's the entrance? Where's the merchandise setup? Does that look good?

24:01Jesse Cole: And you look at all those different details, because the first impression is so key. Most times you come to a sporting event, yeah, you'll see the stadium, and you'll go to a gate like everyone else. Nah, when you come to Banana Land, when you come to our show, you've got to feel something different immediately, because they're going to be out there hours before the game. I mean, five hours they're going to be on the plaza. So I'll study that. Then once I come in the stadium, I immediately look, all right, what are the challenges? What's the upper deck situation? Most people, they focus on the seats right behind home plate.

24:25Jesse Cole: They pay the most. Now I focus on the upper deck. The single mom that comes, maybe they've been waiting four years, five years, and it's their first time to come out to one of our games. How are they, if they're sitting all the way up to the deck, how are they going to have the most memorable experience of their life? And most people, they say, oh, they're just on the upper deck, whatever. No, we're going to make sure our players go up there, our cast goes up there, I go up there, we deliver things. That is something we talk about every single night. And when we meet with our staff, when we first come in, we go to the upper deck.

24:50Jesse Cole: We put our entire staff up in those seats so they can put themselves in the fan seats and say, this is where we're sitting. How are these people going to be feeling at the end of the night? That's important. It's those little details. The small details make a big difference. And I think most people, they focus on just, hey, the big picture. No, you've got to get in there. Just like I said, get in the weeds, get there with your fans, get there with your customers, and that's how you can create something that truly lasts. A relentless focus on the customer. One of the things that I find most interesting about what you're doing at Banana Ball is how you pay your players.

25:18Could you break that down on how you also want to provide an opportunity for them outside of baseball as well?

25:25Jesse Cole: What do you think about? Again, what's the normal way of paying? Everything's incentivized based solely on how you perform on the field. Well, this is so much more than how you perform on the field. It's how you create fans. Everything is creating fans. And so, yes, for us, it's how are you creating fans on the field by doing things people have never seen before? So literally, in Banana Ball, every day we're talking about what are you doing that's new? And then also, what are you doing in connecting with fans that's fans first? So we also measure our players from, hey, are you getting in the crowd?

25:53Jesse Cole: Are you creating moments? And then finally, it's social. And so from a pay standpoint, yeah, by creating fans socially, you have big bonuses. So literally, if you're out putting yourself out there and sharing your story, sharing who you are and connecting with fans the fan the players that grow socially will make a lot more money and let me ask you this right because I love it because it not only benefits the organization of banana ball but it also benefits the player but do you feel like part of that comes from your own realization of when you uh you hurt your shoulder to when you could no longer play baseball anymore you're like look hey my path to becoming pro I can't really do that anymore so I gotta figure something out yeah I mean again I had this big dream to play a Fenway Park and as a kid that's all I ever wanted I grew up outside of Boston that was that dream it was gone and for most players they never get that chance it's only a few that make the major leagues and get that opportunity unless you create something different and so we were able to create something different and I know the only way we could play at the major league level or play at NFL stadiums is we had to create fans at a different level than anyone else because to sell out major league stadiums a lot of major league teams it's hard to do throughout a year and we have to do it every time we come in every single stadium and so yeah I think for the players and everyone we try to continue incentivizing encourage that guys the money will take care of itself if you create fans and they're getting brand deals like crazy they're getting all these other opportunities because of having a platform to create fans again not many people are going to remember that the two doubles you hit or the three strikeouts but remember you going up upper deck they remember you creating an epic performance and walk-up dance they're gonna remember you out in front of the stadium meeting them those are the moments you think back as a kid someone threw you a ball a foul ball it might not be you know for me Mo Vaughn hit a home run like I don't remember those moments but I remember when I got a couple foul balls and who gave them to me I remember Lee Smith sitting deck next to me you know I remember those moments and I think that's what's going to resonate with all of our fans and I hope our players create every single night Jesse obviously you know coming from a point of being a million dollars in debt at one point doing this league to where you guys are now what is the biggest challenge that you face today obviously you know back then that that was probably the hardest one of the hardest times of getting through but like today the league's hot what what for you is the biggest challenge and hurdle that you feel like you're having to overcome today yeah it's it's it's all it's all macro i mean i wish i'd give you like a micro it's this specific thing for sure it's macro we had four people we have hundreds probably close to a thousand people in our organization so how does everyone we've had hundreds of people join us in the last few years they weren't there in the beginning when we were grinding when we were picking up trash when we were showing up they weren't there how do they feel that every day because now you show up i mean my wife and i and jared our president our original team we did everything just like you guys when you started you do everything and then you get a team and you start doing what gives you energy which I believe in but how do the people that join you know that we will do whatever it takes for our fans and so that making sure that spreads and then figuring out what's next and how do you keep growing in a way that's best for your fans but not also not taken away from your experience it's hard six shows we have six brand new shows like six teams and every night it's a completely different show that is extremely hard and right now teams four five six you know the show is not at the level of good but they're only in year one year two you just got to be able to keep showing up and getting better it's that relentless obsession on each day getting better on plussing the show as it is at walt disney who said we're always going to plus the experience that's how can you make sure as a leader that continues to happen you have that drive for everyone to not settle and say hey this is just fine that's the challenge definitely and i think a lot of that comes from you know you willing to kind of be in that position of like being in the weeds like not pulling yourself out completely because you even think of like big businesses that like have franchises they're concerned when they're getting ready to do the franchise play it's like oh well if we expand to a different location are they going to uphold the same standards that location one has and it's very hard to do that if the leader and the people at the top are not doing what they need to do and it's also giving up control you know partnerships are tough working with different partners.

29:48Jesse Cole: They all have different ways of doing things. Sometimes it takes longer. They have more people involved. They don't have the same goals, the same interests. That's why we control all our merchandise. We control our own tickets. We built our own ticket system. We built our own secondary ticket system to keep all tickets at face value for fans. We build it all ourselves so we know that we have that direct connection with our fans. And so it's like, that's a unique challenge you have too as you grow because not everyone has the same tenacity, the same goals. Most people, they come to me and they say, hey, here's a way to make money.

30:14Jesse Cole: You already lost me. I'm not interested. Hey, we'll buy all this and do this. Not interested. How will it create more fans? Talk to me that language and we might be able to make something happen. Are you ever going to sell this baseball league? No, I'll never sell this. You'll never sell it? I'll never sell this. And I'll write that down in cement. I will never sell this. Because when you love something so much and you believe in something so much and you know what happens when you sell, look at history of all the companies that have sold. Look what happens after. Because what they do is they sold it.

30:45Jesse Cole: So now they've got to find more ways to bring in revenue. And they don't have the same maybe vision and mission as the founders. They're going, you buy something, you want to make money. How many people just buy something because of doing the right thing? And so I know if we sell this, all of a sudden we start seeing sponsorship. We'd start seeing different TV rights deals. We'd start seeing prices increase. All those things that would make hundreds of millions of more dollars, which makes sense on paper. I would ever want to give that because we build trust with our fans over the last 11 years.

31:12Jesse Cole: I never want to lose that. Do you recommend people doing business with their significant other? If you have the right partnership, and I mean that not only in marriage, but also in business. How have you made that dynamic work? Because that is tough on a lot of different relationships. No, it was an extreme challenge at the beginning when we were getting each other's lanes. But we're very clear. Emily is the heart and soul of this organization. She is so intentional on making sure we bring in the right people. And she is obsessed with the people. And I'm obsessed with the vision and the fan experience.

31:38Jesse Cole: And so she helps make sure we have the right people in our organization, oversees our team bringing in the right people and is always checking in on our people every day she is that she's culture based she's amazing at it she's the best in the world and i believe that i'm not going to jump in that space you i'm going to help out support you and then with what i'm doing the big vision she might jesse are we really having teams are we really going to do this are we going to do this you know that's a challenge for her but i just just believe we're going to we're going to make it happen we're going to make it happen so we support each other with our different vision and our different goals and uh and you stay in each other's lanes and you uh truly believe and support the other person, you can accomplish anything together.

32:11Jesse Cole: I love that. And one of my favorite parts about this entire conversation was when you were just kind of talking about one of your strategies with, you know, from a marketing standpoint, just growing this league is that you have to keep it fresh. You have to be an innovator. You know, I always think about like within our content, right? There's thousands of different American business media channels. I mean, I look at, you know, with our kind of niche and like what we've been able to pioneer, it's like, there's now thousands of people doing exactly what we do asking the same questions but what if we do we went out to nigeria to interview the billionaires out there we went out to hong kong like doing things that other people aren't doing what is that creative process like for you do you have time where you just kind of sit with yourself and you just kind of like like what are those conversations internally like that you have the reality marketing isn't what you say marketing is what you do everyone can talk about something but you go into nigeria it's us we're going to a football stadium we're gonna go do this and that's you learn by doing and so i think that's very important but ideas are everything so in 2018 i started my first idea book.

33:03Jesse Cole: And so every morning I would write down 10 ideas. And it was the hardest thing until I started realizing I got to have a bucket. You know, what's my theme? All right. We're thinking about mom and pop promotions. We're thinking of places we can go places you've never played before. Thinking of things to do with banana ball youth and start thinking of all these ideas. And every day you write those down, you work your idea muscle. Most people don't spend time on their idea muscle. They're spending on how do we actually grow revenue, grow business, but it all starts with ideas. And what's even probably worse now with AI, people are just relying so heavily on it and not actually using their own.

33:31Jesse Cole: You don't work your idea muscle. So, so you, so you become lazy with your ideas. I've done that for years. Now I use, Hey, AI has become very supportive. You better, you better believe, you better believe that now I go with these ideas and we work that faster because I've been doing it. I've been working my ideal muscle for eight to nine years. So it's a tool, but if that's all you use now, you're never going to train when it's hard. It's when you have 10 ideas and the first three are easy and then good luck on seven, eight, nine. It's like when you're getting your reps in, getting to 10, 11, 12, it gets harder and harder.

33:55Jesse Cole: That's how you got to push through. So we've trained this organization before there was AI to come up with ideas every Tuesday. We have idea sessions every single Tuesday Everybody's submitting ideas We've been working that idea muscle over and over and again And that's why I believe we're one of the greatest organization when it comes to ideas because we have pushed ourselves for years and most companies They don't value that it's about what's the sales? What's the marketing plan how we drive in revenue how we grow in the business? It starts with what are the ideas? What are the ideas to make a better experience for your customers and your clients and your fans?

34:21Jesse Cole: That's how you drive the business. That's what we obsess over Did you have, I know that you took inspiration from guys like P.T. Bond and Walt Disney, but was there an actual mentor that you had in your life? Or was this all just from you trying, failing, implementing, pivoting? Like, did you have somebody that helped teach you, you know, how to actually make this into a real business and create the league? Jeff Bezos, Steve Jobs, The Grateful Dead, Cirque du Soleil. You know, I could keep, I have a bookshelf with thousands of books. So I started reading, obsessing over reading. Like literally, like on Disney, I've read every single book.

34:52Jesse Cole: I mean, literally, if it comes out, I have it like bookmarked and I will get it to read it. Every book on Amazon, because they're one of the most customer focused. Walmart, Sam Walton, he was brilliant with his philosophy. I mean, I will obsess. Every page is almost earmarked. And I don't even highlight, I earmark it, but I know exactly if I look at it what I wanted to learn. And so that's just, I've been doing that for 20 plus years. But then, yeah, you know, my dad. I think all of us, in a sense, we want to make someone proud. Was your dad like a business guy or like? Yeah, so yeah. I mean, my dad climbed up of Bradley's, became a Bradley's was a billion dollar company, a department store company.

35:25Jesse Cole: And he climbed up there and then he joined a baseball club, baseball facility, and he became a part owner there. But it wasn't just it wasn't the business. It was every day, you know, my dad working with him playing ball. And, you know, when I was a kid, my dad said, swing hard in case you hit it. My dad was always pushing me to go hard and work hard. And I always want to make him proud. And I think there's a drive for that. It's trying to make my dad proud, even to this day. So who are you trying to make proud? I try to make my dad proud try to make my family proud and that drive as a kid trying to make him proud drives me today to continue to make my My family proud my dad proud and the fans proud All right This is something that I think would be really cool to ask you and really fun to get your perspective on I was scrolling on like You know Instagram reels recently and I you know Obviously a big portion of my algorithm is is some of its sports a lot of its very business concentrated and and what we're seeing is just that private equity is starting to get very heavily involved in sports for young children.

36:19How does that make you feel? Do you think that that's ultimately a problem with that happening, with them getting involved in the travel organization? I mean, it makes sense. Those leagues, I mean, those young kids in the travel law, that makes a lot of money, by the way.

36:31Jesse Cole: Yeah, there's nothing wrong with private equity. There's some brilliant people in private equity, obviously. A lot of them started from founders and businesses and done a great job. what is the goal? What is the purpose? And so when private equity gets into things, it is usually to drive a business, take it to another level, which there's nothing wrong with. But what's the heart of it? What's the purpose? What's the intention? So you look at youth sports, I obsess over. Is it thinking about how do you scale? How do you grow it? Or are you thinking about how to make the experience so remarkable?

37:01Jesse Cole: And even if it doesn't work out unbelievably financially but you can make the experience remarkable I don't know if all P is looking at that they're looking at again scaling you know how you scale you do the unscalable to scale that's what we started a one-city world tour going to the upper deck calling every single fan that bought tickets the first seven years and thanking them 150 ,000 fans a year every fan that bought merchandise the first seven years you do the unscalable do the scale private equity looks at how do we do the scale it's not doing the things that don't make sense on paper in the beginning and so I obsess over creating fans so the reality is youth sports to answer your question yes there is a huge fundamental problem and I've talked about that and it's going to take time for us to figure out a model where we can do it really well what is the problem with youth sports oh geez well you know let's start with the expenses it's inconvenient I mean you're paying thousands of dollars at a high level or you're going at rec level where you're not getting the coaching and it's volunteer base so you got the rec level volunteer volunteer base and not great coaching then you got the high level which you're paying thousands of dollars.

38:02Jesse Cole: You're traveling all over the country. The parents are going every weekend, they're going somewhere. And so parents aren't loving it because their, their lives are completely thrown off. They're paying so much. The kids, it's just development, develop, develop, develop the fun. Where's the fun? Like again, you sports, I think the whole goal is you play a game to play a fun. And so for us, we look at all those friction points. How do you make it where it's affordable, where it's convenient, where it's fun, where actually the parents love going every day because they're a part of the experience and they're not just, where am I driving my kid today?

38:29Jesse Cole: all right you know it's just you look at all those and so again the starting point of innovation is put yourself in the customer's shoes and look at all the friction points and do the exact opposite and i think that's how we would look at you sports love that this is more of a fun question jesse what is the greatest baseball movie of all time oh wow that is such a tough one because there's sports movies but man there's some good baseball movies out there's something about a good baseball movie oh it's so debatable so you know because you go you know there's so many i mean everyone when it goes to Field of Dreams, you know, there's Bull Durham, there's For Love of the Game, there's Major League.

39:00Jesse Cole: I like the natural. The natural. You know, for me, because now I watch it with my kids, and, you know, I've been able to build a good relationship with the great Hambino. But Sandlot. I just think, because, again, it goes back to the root of it. Kids going out to play ball. One night a year they get to play under the fireworks and all those moments. And it's just kids playing the game and having fun. No agenda. You know, talking about youth sports. That's what it's about. And I love that movie, and I love watching it with my kids. Sandlot is S tier. I got a fun one for you as well. If there was one person you could bring out to do a guest AB in a banana ball game, who would it be?

39:34Guest AB.

39:35Jesse Cole: That's so funny. I get asked that question. We've had so many people with us now. I'm sure. Who would you pick? Who would you guys pick? So you're putting that on me if you could have one player. I didn't think you were going to do that. Yeah. Well, that's a tough question. It is an extremely tough question. So who are the biggest legends of the game? You know, you think if it was Yankee Stadium, it would be Derek Jeter. You know what I'm saying? You think of – but, again, for me, I was never – I mean, I'm a Fenway guy. So like Pedro Martinez, I was very close. I was obsessed with. Roger Clemens, I watched him, but he's already pitched with us.

39:59Jesse Cole: We've had a lot of these happen. But for me, it's not that. I think about a musical performance. I think about creating those moments that are truly special. What would you notice? What would you say are the favorite moments from the fans? What would you say are the thought process of, or how do you actually measure success? Scratch that. How do you measure success of a test? Was it success or a failure with the fans? Yeah, so when we do a promotion on the field, first thing I do is what I'm doing is I'm watching all the fans. are they all off are they laughing what's the reaction so every promotion and a lot of minor teams they say all right let's do a dizzy bat let's do so and so and they just do a promotion or sponsor promotion no we obsess what is the button of each one so where's the laughter where's the reaction where's the cheering every single thing we do is there a button and so that button is a moment that the crowd is doing something so when we do something i literally will have promotions out here we'll have rehearsals and we'll even have our fans out here for the backstage and i'm watching their reaction are they filming it immediately are they laughing And so if they're not reacting, we didn't do a good enough job.

40:53Jesse Cole: And then when you put it on social, it's very easy. It's not just by views. It's by shares. I look at shares. If you find this so good, you're sharing it. So whatever's got the most shares, we created something that you want to put your name on because you enjoyed it so much. I can see where, you know, a lot of like learning from like the WWE has like taken a lot of influence because like looking up at the fans, like WWE, they have like a pop. It's like, did this get a pop? And like when they're, you know, going into their events, they're thinking about, okay, well, what moves could we do today?

41:20that are going to shock in all the world.

41:22Jesse Cole: It's so cool to see what's the reaction. Where are they coming from? I'm constantly thinking. I mean, we have the party animals, the whole starting line, they come from different parts of the whole stadium. So they're coming out from different parts of the stadium. We're always looking for that moment that you break down the barrier between fans and players. That doesn't happen. Again, what is not being done in other sports? You try to find other ways to do it. WWE does a great job. But even I think WWE, there's opportunities. Put some of the wrestlers with the fans. Fans would go nuts. And those are the things that we think about doing.

41:45Well, Jesse, this was a phenomenal conversation. We like to end these podcasts off with two questions for our guests. I'll start and Jack will finish. But Jesse, if all of us sitting here were to die tomorrow and you could leave one last message, one last guiding principle with the younger generation, what would that be?

41:59Jesse Cole: I've never taken this long to think cuz that's such a big message and there's so many things that I believe in. But on our first ever Fans First playbook that we share in the back, it said be patient in what you want for yourself, but be impatient in how much you give to others. And if you're able to do that and give, give without wanting anything in return and constantly give, can have the world and anything is possible. And I think what people have realized is we've been so obsessed with giving so much to so many people that it's really taken off in a different level. That is a phenomenal quote.

42:27I hadn't heard that before. That's beautiful. Be patient about what you can give to yourself. Be impatient about what you can give to others. Fantastic. Jack and Jesse, for the life and everything that you've led up until this point, how do you want to be remembered? It's a very tough question, but it's funny. When I was 31 years old, I wrote my first book

42:45Jesse Cole: to share the journey because I always wish I was like, I wish Walt Disney shared his whole journey in the beginning. And so I shared it. I just, again, I don't think anyone wanted the book at the time, but I wrote it. And I wrote, when you die, what's going to be your obituary? And I wrote my obituary. And it's changed a lot because it's 10 years later. I didn't have kids then. But how will you be remembered?

43:05Jesse Cole: I hope as someone that brought joy and fun and energy. and I think about my kids and my wife and I don't really think about necessarily what the words are, but I think about how I made them feel. And I think about my kids laughing, my kids smiling, my wife looking at me proud with a tear coming down her face. Those are moments that I feel if you live your life the right way and you do the right thing, you'll have that same reaction with people of just joy. I want everyone, hopefully when I have my funeral in many, many years, everyone's doing a big hey baby dance. everyone's celebrating, we're having fun, and there's happy tears, just joyful happy tears because of hopefully what I brought to the world and brought a lot of joy.

43:51Jesse, this is one of my favorite conversations that we've had here on this podcast, man. Your energy's radiating and just you're very inspiring, man. So I just want to say thank you for being here. I appreciate it, James. Thanks, guys. For everybody that's tuned in right now, be sure to like and subscribe for amazing content coming every week to the School of Hard Knocks podcast. We're bringing incredible business owners just like Jesse Cole right here to this podcast every single week. We're going to put the links down in the description to follow along with Jesse, his journey, to follow along with the Savannah Bananas and all the other incredible teams and this organization that you're building with Banana Ball and Fans First Entertainment.

44:22I can't wait to continue to follow along with your journey, my friend. It's going to be great to see you. A lot of fun. Lastly, we're going to put a link down in the description to get access to the School of Mentors, the number one entrepreneur community in the world where every week we host live calls with the different eight, nine, and 10 figure entrepreneurs that we interview on the School of Hard Knocks. We can't wait to see you all on the inside, getting on a live call, getting mentored from the people that we interview. But with that being said, we'll see you in the next video. Awesome.

44:46That was great, Jesse. Thank you so much. Really appreciate that. Let's just get a couple quick pictures.