The Gall(iano) of Anna Wintour

0:00This episode is brought to you by ChatGPT. Hey, it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons Podcast. Have you guys heard about ChatGPT work? It's the new way to use ChatGPT for bigger multi-step projects. And when you need more than just answers, give ChatGPT work access to your apps and files, and it can create real work documents like spreadsheets, slides, and structured reports. Get started at ChatGPT.com by selecting work mode available on Plus and Pro plans. Wait, do you really have his number? No, you don't. I will fucking die if he answers the phone right now. Hello? Hi, George Santos. How are you?

0:45Welcome back to Second Thought, your place for hot takes on popular culture and a healthy dose of unpopular culture. I'm Suzy Weiss, here with my co-host. Diana Dute. And today we're going to talk about John Galliano and the chaos at the Met Gala, George Santos' latest scandal, Boomer's new best friend, a man unjustly fired from his job at Waffle House, and more. Dan, are you ready to talk about some more news? Let's go. This is the story of the week as far as I'm concerned. Because on Monday, fashion designer John Galliano, do you know who John Galliano is? I do, very well. He recused himself from being honored at the 2027 Met Gala, which was to be held in his honor after critics objected to his history of anti-Semitism.

1:27For those who don't know, in 2010, Galliano was caught on a video at a cafe saying, I love Hitler. People like you would be dead. Your mothers, your forefathers would all be fucking guests. It was very light, very light touch with this guy. Right. And then a few months later, the same thing happened. He yelled at someone for having a dirty Jewish face and then said again, you should be dead. an apparent favorite line of his. And then everything like he sort of was the outrage existed back then. He was fired from his post as the head of Dior. He was charged because apparently saying these things is illegal in France.

2:01So he paid court fees to the plaintiffs. And so and then he kind of went away for a few years, came back, helmed Margiela. He was sort of welcomed back into the fashion industry with the help of Anna Wintour, who heads the Mac Gala. and she decided that the appropriate subject for the 2027 annual exhibition and the party that accompanies the kickoff of it would be none other than John Galliano. After an outcry, after this was announced, he said, you know what, I'm not doing it. I'm refusing the crown. Dan, I'm curious what your take is on that and who you think they should honor instead. Okay, there's a couple things here.

2:37Yeah, there's a lot. You left out a very big part of the story. What? His two anti-Semitic rants were at the same cafe. Yeah, I think it's near where he lives. Café La Pearl. Have you been? I have not been. But what is it about this café that makes you feel so comfortable? Café La Pearl. It's really, it allows people to kind of let loose. Let loose. Saturnalia over there. I mean, shout out to Café La Pearl. Creating a safe space for lunatics. I mean, I think you and I are going to disagree on this, Susie. Look, it's very easy to watch. What did her face look like? No kidding. In his defense. Look, it's very easy to watch these videos.

3:19It's kind of fun to watch someone's public meltdown video. You know, Michael Richards, probably the most famous. First viral video ever. Him at the laugh factory. Of course, this is who played Kramer on Seinfeld. Yes. There's something kind of fun of being able to look at that person and be like, you are evil. I'm on the right side. You're wrong. This is amazing to watch. What's harder to watch is his apology tour. Did you watch his video with Charlie Rose? Charlie Rose interviewed him after he went sober. He goes sober and this and that. Man, I had a tough time not feeling bad for this guy. Getting through it.

3:55I don't know that I believe, because his whole thing was like, I don't remember I even said those things. Yeah. I got something that you call blackout drunk. You could tell his PR person was like, this is what you say. But I don't know. I kind of, I think he does believe those things or did at the time. I do feel like he probably was like, I give him some grace. Okay. And I do think he is one of the best fashion designers of our generation. I mean, he's like as probably maybe not as amazing, but a contemporary and equal to McQueen. Like if he's actually sorry and if in his brain he is sorry, would you be fine with this happening?

4:33I think they should do it. But I think it was a very weird call in the first place to for Anna Wintour to say, because it's not saying let's throw an exhibition and examine this person's complicated life. It's let's throw him a huge party in his honor and then have like, I guess, like a placard or whatever being like, oh, this other weird thing happened. And what it really does is put donors and board members at the museum in this incredibly impossible position where they either have to sit down and fork over money to celebrate a person who said these things about them, that they should be gassed, or they have to be like, no, I hate that.

5:14I'm pulling my art and you're not allowed to do this and I'm going to threaten you, which makes them look equally as bad. So it's this like weird double bind. And I think the I think John Galliano probably is sorry. And regardless, like he should be allowed back into society. He said a bad thing, but he apologized and whatever, met with some rabbis. And I don't think he should be like barred from designing a skirt again because of that. But on the other hand, it's Anna Wintour sort of screwing him as well as everyone else by saying, you know, he's he's going to be the the person of honor at this.

5:50I get that. It also, you kind of have egg on your face if you're the Costume Institute and you're Anna Wintour, and you're so obsessed with inclusivity and cultural sensitivity to the point where you had, you know, dwarf mannequins at the last fashion exhibition and mannequins in wheelchairs. All fine and great, but it's like, like, if that doesn't really extend to Jewish people where it's sort of like, well, you should kind of take it because he said sorry. It's like, well, that's kind of interesting. Right. But now it looks so bad. It's like there was going to be this fun party and all the Jews ruined it.

6:22I guess where I land on this is instead of taking this away from Galliano, we should stop being so overly protective of all the other groups. Make everyone, everyone should be the same. Everyone should feel a little bit bad going into the Met Gala's fashion exhibition because fashion is mean. Yeah. It isn't inclusive. Yeah. So like let everyone else, let everyone feel a little stung every single year. Man, the Met Gala is really getting it this year. Oh, I mean, everyone loves to hate a party they aren't invited to. You know what I mean? But I think that's actually a great solution. It's like every year one group should feel horribly offended.

6:54John, if you're listening. Yeah, John. First of all. Love your mustache. Love the mustache. I will say the funniest thing about the videos is he always ends them calling the people ugly. He's like, the Jews deserve to die. They deserve their death. You should be gassed. And then the woman's like, you have problems. He's like, you know what my problem is? You're ugly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

7:18So in huge music news on Monday, a Las Vegas jury found Dwayne, also known as Keefy D. Davis, guilty of orchestrating the murder of Tupac Shakur. The case of the rapper's killing was at a standstill for 30 years. But Keefy D. actually broke down the precise details of the killing of Tupac in his memoir and in several podcast appearances. He explained how he was he was in the passenger seat of the car where he had a gun. She then passed back in the backseat to his nephew, Orlando Anderson, who fired the shots at Tupac. He apparently had a proffer agreement with the police in 2008 relating to drug charges, which he mistakenly believed granted him lifetime immunity from prosecution.

8:01And he thought he made it so he could talk about this. I would make this mistake. This is why I do not do crimes, because I actually they would they would strike some deal and I'd be like, so we're good. And then I go on a podcast and talk about it. It's so confusing. I see why he thought this would happen. Well, I thought Keefe D also, he has cancer now. He has colon cancer. Yes, he's colon cancer. And so he was like, he thought that would give him immunity too. He thought he had cancer immunity. That's not a thing. That's not a thing. But also just because you're sick doesn't mean you could go do crime.

8:30No. Or like admit to crime that you did. No. You know what this is? This is what's happening a lot now is people need to get on podcasts and documentaries and talk about this thing. You don't know what you're going to reveal if you do that. Don't do it. Do not, if you have committed an unsolved murder, listen here. PSA for the murderers out there. Do not talk about it. Do not assume you have immunity. When HBO calls say, sounds amazing, let me check my schedule, and then change your number. Change your number. They don't know you. Don't go on there. The idea that getting cancer would give you lifetime immunity is like in the office when Michael Scott declares bankruptcy.

9:05And he goes, I declare bankruptcy. Deep down in my own heart, I'm like, yeah, that's how it should work. It is how it should work. Also, it's like if a policeman was like, tell us what you know, we won't hold it against you. I'd be like, okay. And then I'd tell him and then I'd go on with my life. Keefy. Keefy D. How have you devoted yourself to a life of crime and then you forget the rules, man? Well, he didn't say who done it. He did not say who did it. Snitches get stitches. Even though it was his nephew. Who's dead now. I blame this man not at all for his mistakes. This, the justice system, is extremely confusing.

9:43Okay? These plea deals, the proffer offers, immunity, partial immunity. Who could keep up? It's very complicated. And you could see it in his face after they deliver the verdict. My God, please look up this video, everyone. Because the first thing he says after, they're like, you're guilty. You're going to jail forever. No bail. He goes, excuse me, can I please have my cell phone and my computer that I gave in the beginning? You guys have my computer and my cell phone. can I have that? Also, I'd love to do an appeal. I love him. He's just like me. He's literally, that's what I would say. I'd be like, can we do an appeal?

10:18And where's my phone? I need to call someone. I'm going to have my phone and my computer and appeal. Unbelievable. Keefy D. Second thought stands with Keefy D. Yeah. He's the only one alive who in that whole interaction. Is he really? Yes. Everyone else is deceased. And I guess this 30 year long mystery of who killed him and why can now be put to bed. Yeah. Every summer, I rediscover that my body's preferred sleeping temperature is that of an industrial freezer. Anyone else? I was sick of flipping my pillow every five minutes, so I finally switched out my whole sleep situation for Cozy Earth, and I really don't know what I was waiting for.

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12:33Thank you, Keefe. Let's talk about another piece of music news, which is that of a will-be legend, Rockstar Riley. Who is Rockstar Riley and where does he work? In my opinion, this is the most important music story of the week. Rockstar Riley was an employee at the Waffle House, and he was also a rapper. He's also a rapper. and he rapped a song called Wafi Options Love okay and it is the best song ever objectively objectively the best song ever written they're calling it like the song of late summer it's so great now but it ends in tragedy much like the Tupac story it ends in tragedy okay because rock star Riley got fired from the Waffle House because he was making his music videos in the parking lot of the Waffle House.

13:26It is a earnest, non-ironic rap song talking about how amazing the Waffle House is. It's a love letter to the Waffle House. He's basically the Bruce Springsteen of Waffle House. I mean, he's going after it with such amazing lyrics as Welcome to the Wafi. We know you got options. When everything else is closed, come to us because we stay open. He's writing advertisements for these people. He wrote the best ad for Waffle House ever. And how did they thank him? They fired him. Susie, I have a little surprise for you. Okay. An hour before going to air, I went on Instagram and I DM'd Rockstar Riley.

14:10No, you didn't. I did. And I asked him if he would be on second thought. Oh, my God. So he can speak to us about what exactly went down. because this is the story that everyone, you know, this is what people need to know about. They need to know his side of the story. Yeah, wrongful termination. I mean. Can we get him on the line? I'm going to try right now. Okay, let's try and get him on the line. Okay. Here we go. Okay. Oh my God. I want him. Rockstar Riley. Hey, how you doing? What's up? Rockstar, we're so happy to have you on. This is Danidute and Susie Weiss. We are so stoked to have you on.

14:49Thank you so much for taking the call, Rockstar. Oh, no problem. Thank y 'all for having me on. Of course. So I'm going to get right into it. I think that you have been, first of all, the song is incredible. It's so fun. I mean, Waffle Options, first of all, you nail everything that is wonderful and great about Waffle House. The fact that you can go any time of day, the fact that you'll be treated well, the fact that you can customize your order and get whatever you want. I mean, it's the best homage to Waffle House I've ever heard. I appreciate this so much. I'm trying to just make sure, you know, I give everyone a good taste of what Atlanta has to offer.

15:28But also, you know, Atlanta being the home of where Waffle House started at, I thought that was a great thing. And then me also working for Waffle House since I was 15 years old. No way. It was a great combination. I mean, that makes the story even more sad and tragic. The fact that you got fired for this beautiful love letter to the Waffle House. Yes. But honestly, it's okay. Yeah. Because you know what? All that was was a stepping stone for me to go ahead and do the things that I was really meant to do. Because even though I've been working for Waffle House since I was 15, I've been making music since I was 8.

16:07Amazing. Rockstar, what's next for you? What's the plan? I just released Winner Winner Chicken Dinner, which is a song for Mrs. Winner's Chicken. What? One of the owners. Yeah, it's one of the owners from one of their franchise restaurants. He reached out to me and asked if I could make a song for them. And so it's actually out on Spotify right now. Rockstar Riley, I kind of love this pivot for you. I love this. This is great. By the way, what is your favorite? What is your order? Yeah, what's your order? What's your order at Waffle House? Okay, my favorite order to eat will be a quarter cheese burger with grilled jalapenos and pepper.

16:53Grilled jalapeno peppers and onions on it with lettuce, ketchup, and a bunch of extra pickles with a little bit of the special seasoning that Waffle House just got in the last two months. Oh. A little bit of that seasoning added onto the top of the bun. After I lather a little bit of butter on the top of the bun and I sprinkle the season, I glide the top of the bun across the grill one time and then take it off. Lathering. Yeah, I make things a little different. That's why a lot of people love to come see me at my store. Rockstar Riley, where can people find you if they want to listen to your music or follow you?

17:29Oh, literally type in on Apple Music, Spotify, YouTube Music, Amazon Music, whatever you use, type in Rockstar Riley. R-O-C-K-S-T-A-R. R-I-L-E-Y. You're the best. You're the best rock star. Thank you so much. No, thank you. I mean, welcome back Dolly Parton. This is like the sweetest guy that I've ever been on the phone with. Oh my God. What a winner. Waffle House, you lost out on like, he clearly, he has so much pride in his work. He understands the menu. Oh my God. And you just totally messed this one up. I mean, you should invite him back. You should invite him back with like a parade. The way that he described making that burger, I thought...

18:13It sounds amazing. That was like chef's table Waffle House. Yeah, exactly. I will... Because there is like an Iron Chef aspect to Waffle House because there's so many different combinations you could do. And he clearly was like a master of it. I'm not worried about Rockstar Riley. I think he's going to be fine. Not for a second. I think he's going to be just fine. And I like this idea that it's like, you know what? This thing happened to me that wasn't ideal, but actually I'm going to use it for like to do the thing I've always wanted to do, which is make music. I mean... What an American story.

18:40What an American story. We stand with you. We stand with you, Rockstar Riley. Rockstar Riley, we stand with you, and we award you the second thought award for most wrongful termination of the week. One demographic that does not seem worried about the AI apocalypse is boomers. And I'm curious, Dan, whether your parents use AI. My parents do use AI. We do? My mom calls ChatGPT Chatty Patty. No, she doesn't. I swear on my life. She actually does. She says, I was on Chatty Patty. It doesn't talk like that. She does. Should we call her? We can call her. We can call everyone. This is going to be the call-in show.

19:19This is the call-in show. Your experience mirrors that of a writer who did this great little piece in the Wall Street Journal about going on vacation with his boomer parents. And he writes that every year, my family gathers for a vacation, just the four of us, my mom, my dad, my sister, and me. This time, however, my parents brought a fifth member to our New England getaway, Claude, Anthropics AI chatbot, or as my mom calls it, the nice man who answers all my questions. And I am so not surprised. Boomers did this with cable television. They did it with their iPads. They are just, they're early adopters.

19:53And they just have this optimistic attitude towards something like AI. And they're bringing it into their life. I think it's great for some things. I think it's like maybe the negative side is probably about 15 to 20 times a week, I have to say, no, that's an AI video, mom. Right. That's an AI video, dad. Right. Okay. And they're showing videos of like California being blown off the map. Yeah. Yeah, like crazy stuff, I'm sure. Yeah, don't worry. Khomeini didn't come back to life. You're okay, guys. I have to say, as much as I think AI is stealing our parents, AI saved my tushy. Tell me. This week.

20:35I was with my parents and we were talking about wedding gifts and they were like oh did you get a gift for that person's wedding a wedding I couldn't go to I was like no I didn't go and they were like excuse me? I was like I didn't go to the wedding so I didn't get the wedding gift and they were like you always have to get a wedding gift even if you did you know this? I don't know I'm so lost on the rules of wedding presents and wedding gifts and how much to give and all that stuff well apparently when you don't go to the wedding you have to give double You have to like saw your arm off and like send it to the couple.

21:07In your parents' defense, they are, I'm going to say logarithmically more classy than you. Oh my God. And your sister. And the whole family. No, no. My parents are up here. They were ready to push me out of a moving car when I said that I didn't get people wedding gifts for weddings I didn't go to. And then my dad was like, let's just ask AI. And I was like, fine. And AI agreed with me. AI was like, you don't have to do it. Really? But I will mention this statistic. Nearly 6 in 10 young adults, according to this Wall Street Journal article, are extremely or very concerned about people's ability to function for themselves in the AI age versus 46 % of those 65 and up.

21:50So if you're older, you're less concerned that AI is going to like suck your ability and humanness out of you through your face. Yeah, they've developed. What are they going to do? Spend the last 10 years of their lives being like, no, I don't want this technology. They enjoy the technology. Boomers have it so good in every way. We also had an amazing story from Arthur Brooks who talked about how STD or STI rates and rates of cannabis use are really climbing among the boomer class. Those 65 and older, you think? As it should. Arthur's column was really like, no, no, no, no sinning. Like, put God at the center.

22:26Are you kidding me? Yes. Come on. Yeah. You put God at the center the day that you're dying. the day that you're dying you say I accept Jesus Christ I did all the things do all of them just in case the day but let me tell you before that you better be popping your Cialis at the old age at the old age bingo game yeah you know what I'm saying and taking a bong rip take a bong rip and play bingo you know have a threesome do your thing and then be on AI the whole time the whole time always be chatting make it a foursome have Chachi PT on an iPad in the bed are you nice to your ai do you say thank you can i tell you something i met a guy who was a an ai engineer higher up guy and he told me something that kind of messed me up he was like the ai works harder if you are frustrated with it oh no which has like which is such a negative feedback loop because now i'm like i'm like i'm like saying like go fuck yourself to my chat gpt and then it works extra hard to try to please me first of all i always say thank you so much and please And then I'm like, please explain this to me like I am in third grade.

23:31And then it does it. I'm like, please explain this to me like I'm in fifth grade. And I have a learning disability. And I can't hear. Like, I need this explained so simple. I was trying to understand the Keefe-Dee-Proffer agreement. I was like, I do not get it. It couldn't have been held against him. But then it was. I guess because he said it on a podcast later. But yeah, my parents really love AI. My parents speak in it. Like, first of all, AI, it's - They're using the voice? It speaks Farsi fluently. It does? It's just so nuts. Because if you think about it, Farsi is only spoken in two places in the world.

24:03Great Neck. Great Neck and LA. Afghanistan and Iran. Like, it's not a language that needs to have AI anything. I'm telling you, it's speaking fluent Farsi to my parents. And, like, it's better than anything I could ever say to them. It's the son they never had. It's the son they never had.

24:24Let's talk about strawberries. I hate this story. Okay. Strawberries. What do you tell me, Dan? Talk to me about strawberries and what's been going on with them. Okay. So the premium fruit market, it's something that's been in Japan for a long time, and it's coming on our shores. It's coming to our shores. Much like Pearl Harbor, we are not prepared for this Japanese invasion that is sweeping across America. Expensive boutique fruit. This happens. This has been going on in Japan for a long time. What has been going on? Fruit? Yes. No, they'll have like, they'll auction off like the best melon.