Spencer Matthews: How pushing my body to the limit changed my life

35:56Like, why is it taking a week to change the fucking colour? It's a huge topic, right? I mean, Brian Chesky did the whole founder mode thing is broadly around this, right? You know, the idea that when you sacrifice so much control on the premise that hire good people and leave them to do good work doesn't always necessarily work. You do need someone in the ring who's gonna say bottles take you know they don't take eight months take three months and i think that a company kind of needs someone who doesn't exist in the ordinary structure someone who will say like fuck it we're gonna just do it this other way so i think that like maybe you could become the lead again because like ben france left gymshark and came back yeah i mean it happened yeah who knows who knows and you know this is all stuff that had you asked me that a couple years ago i would have gone no no like it has to be billy but yeah like i think I probably could, you know, it, it, it, it depends.

36:45It depends. I'm just more relaxed in general about, about it all. Yeah. You know, because I was losing a lot of sleep over it. I was spending countless hours in the office. I was just like obsessing over a number that we had to hit. And ultimately, if you don't hit the number, you don't hit the number. That's the end of the day, you know, whatever it's, it's kind of like, I think it's very important that the numbers that you set out for your shareholders, you believe you're going to hit, you know, sometimes you do better sometimes you do worse and it's just kind of like i i became very obsessed with having to always be on target and it's ultimately in reality that that never happens really like you know there's maybe i've invested in like 20 businesses maybe two of them are kind of ahead of where they said they would be one of them yeah i mean it's it's a it's a remarkable thing where people take investment and then they pursue these targets and the numbers are made in a room in like an isolated instance and you say we're going to hit x million this year everyone goes yeah yeah we are number goes up yeah yeah and then you know you you we all agree number goes up yeah number goes up yeah i mean like for most founders right they're good the good advice is they raise money they went to america didn't quite work out they're still building a great company i think that for a lot of founders that is such a struggle to not be what they once thought they were going to be yeah especially like you raised what 2021 the big round yeah yeah i mean that's right there's there are hundreds of people who included myself who raised massive rounds in 2021 and didn't become exactly what they always thought they were going to be yeah um and so that like normalization totally healthy and you know 100 million pound business as that was in 2021 just isn't in 2024 and that's okay yeah but exactly but this is kind of what i learned right in my mind when i was losing sleep in a hotel room in New York, arguing with my private equity lead, you know, shouting at each other, you know, like four in the morning, um, you know, because some things you simply can't see in the future, you know, like, and I, uh, and I can remember thinking at the time, like, fuck, you know, we're going to have to resize the business and we're going to have to do a down round and we're going to have to have a tail between our legs and I'm going to have to go to people at a fucking lower valuation than I have before and it's gonna like feel like this huge failure you can't whatever yeah yeah you can't fuck you know what I mean yeah but you know what I mean yeah so it's kind of like but it's it's important so like you go through experiences like that and you come out fine right and the thing you know the thing is I think we can sell clean for a huge amount of money and it's just going to take a lot longer than I thought it would You just have to reshape the way you look at time and timelines.

39:28You know, like I envisaged us when we first started clean, there was no data to suggest that non-alcoholic spirits were going to be a market. There was no competition. There was only Seedlip. So I was just going after Seedlip and their client base. And like, you know, I wanted to just put a dent in there, in them, you know. And that was just a gut feeling. It's like, I feel like this should exist. this is the kind of thing that I would drink so I'm going to make it. It wasn't like oh my god, look at these millions of people who need satisfying with this data it had nothing to do with that, it was literally just a gut feeling and I flew around the country going to different distilleries saying we're going to make the world's first non-alcoholic gin because Seedlip and I think Seedlip by the way are a brilliant company they don't call themselves a gin they don't have gin flavour they're not made with juniper there's no similarity actually to gin if you mix any of the seed lip products with tonic it doesn't taste like gin one is orange flavored one is like pea flavored it's made with hay and bark and all kinds of stuff which pea flavored one sounds great by the way which i think is really interesting it's like it's it's a botanical it's a really it's a botanical marvel it's cool it's new it's fresh it's interesting it's cool like i loved it um is it gin no right so i was like why did he do that like i'm gonna to make gin.

40:49So you taste the thing and you go, fuck, this tastes like gin and tonic. So that was the idea to be the world's first non-alcoholic gin. Got into loads of trouble for calling it gin because legally you can't call it gin. It has to be 37.5 % with the predominance of juniper and, you know, all kinds of stuff. And we lived and learned and tore up legal letters and threw them in bins and carried on anyway. And we had loads of fun. You know, I felt like, you know, Wolf of Wall Street. It was cool. And, you know, the whole thing was, was a really interesting time in my life full of learnings. One of my favourite business quotes is from Peter Drucker.

41:25And he says, the bottleneck is always in the same place, the top of the bottle. And I love it because it's so simple. It's so true. It's so applicable. And the point being, when you realise that you at the top of the bottle are the bottleneck for the whole business, you've got to change that top. I think that's a really interesting thing. You know, you brought so much to that business to a certain point, but you became a bottleneck for can it become the billion dollar business or not? And when you realize that we have the same thing with Julian Hearn at Huell, you know, how early on in his journey, I think they got to maybe five or 6 million.

41:59I've known Julian since he started that company. Um, he's so early on switched. He changed out to a CEO who's turned that into an unbelievable business and he's still in it, but he's in a much more relevant place in the business for him. and I think I have so much respect for CEOs and founders who recognize that at the right time for the business get out the way and enable other people in the business to actually create that vision it is not celebrated enough and it's not talked about enough well thank you so well done cheers you nailed it so what's next? you talk about ambition you talk about potential you said you might even be looking for titles you said something earlier I thought it'd be quite nice potentially boring potentially boring there you go untapped potential yeah yeah no I'm quite keen to when I was in Jordan running I had a lot of time to think and prioritise bits and bobs because get some context not everyone knows about this so you've just Chris we're officially talking to a Guinness World Record holder it's pretty good soft brand but it's Guinness 0 % I'd assume I saw the coverage yeah so firstly congratulations thank you fucking awesome thank you um but yeah you're a guinness world record holder yeah you did 30 marathons in 30 days on sand first person that's ever done it yeah previous record was 25 i think i think something like that we didn't dwell too much on the previous guy something worse something worse something less so now you've done it what's next um that experience changed my life and it changed um it just felt like real change.

43:39You know, as you may know about me, I don't kind of wander around doubting myself, really. No, you do not. No, but I might be wrong, you know, whatever. But it's one of those, if you think you can or think you can't, you're right. And actually, it's a great mindset. Exactly. It's confidence. It's not arrogance. Of course, I don't always win. Of course, I make mistakes. Of course, things don't always go my way. But I dwell in a place where I think I can do stuff, right? And I'm growing and learning along the way. And when I decided towards the end of last year that I wanted to run 30 marathons in 30 days in the desert, I had no idea if that would be physically possible, right?

44:22Because it had never been done before. And I had doubt, obviously. And it was made worse, actually, by the doubt of others and the doubt of some very serious people that I would call and talk to about it. And they were just like... I'm sure your wife as well, like not doubt, but fear, concern. She was, she, her exact words when she realized I was being serious were, but it will kill you. But she thought I would die doing it. And I said, well, I'm not going to die, obviously. Like if I, if I'm, if it's a problem, I'll stop and, you know, I'll have a doctor with me and it'll say, you know, like I'll be with a team of people.

44:58Like I'm not going to die. That's, I'd be very unlucky to die. I should say. um and and and it was no but so i went in with some doubts you know and obviously i was very aware that if i went and rolled my ankle or you know had a very serious problem early on that this would be a big failure on record right and i believe that failing is good for you and but when you put your kind of all your eggs in one basket and you say publicly like right i'm off to run 30 marathons in 30 days you know in the back of my mind if you don't do 20 of them you've least 20. Gotta do 20. Yeah. Yeah. So I was thinking, you know, I like when I get to 20, I'll feel comfortable because you know, you can't go and do two.

45:39You just can't do it. Yeah. And everyone else watching it can't do 20. You gotta try and just hope that nobody knows. No, that's what I mean. But you know, you know that you really just could never get to 20. So at least if you've done that, like you said, it's still an exceptional... I think it is like pretty human, like crazy human feat. Yeah. It felt, it felt, it felt, I felt quite a lot of pressure going into it because i teamed up with global uh who as i'm sure you know own a lot of radio stations and podcasts and you know that they their reach far supersedes mine i was keen to do something with a lot of reach for a good cause uh their charity global to make some noise uh does some incredible work with about hundreds more charities in the uk uh working closely with a lot of children uh who are you know suffering from bereavement homelessness loneliness mental and physical health issues, cancer.

46:28So, you know, it, it, it covered a lot of causes that were quite close to my heart and, but it also shone a massive, great big light on it. Right. Like we were on heart radio all the time and they put me on billboards. You had to clean co. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, and, and essentially there was a lot of pressure. I remember flying out thinking I've done about, you know, as much as I possibly can to prepare for this thing. But like at the end of the day is my body going to hold up to run 30 marathons right i've never ran two back-to-back marathons right i've done some i've done some some ultra events that have covered lots of distance but i've never ran two marathons back to back um so this is going to be interesting and exciting and look long story short it was it was a great big success you know obviously we you know i did it in the end um and it completely changed my life it changed the way uh this is just me being candid it doesn't matter but like it changed the way people see me it changed the way people treat me it's weird like like coming from that reality tv background that we spoke about earlier um reality tv and i mean no disrespect to people who are currently on reality tv uh is not for me like like i'm like you i don't watch reality tv i've never watched strictly i've never watched towie i've never watched geordie shaw i've never watched made in chelsea like i used to watch it when we were on it a little bit but it's not like it's not the kind of tv that excites me i don't care about it i don't find it interesting at all so for me to kind of um be in a different space and for these doors to open up like the you know endurance athlete space i'm just a by the way like i may be a world record holder but you know there are thousands of people who are much better runners than me who could do what i have done you know i may be the only person that is that's pretty superhuman stuff i may be the only person that's are plenty of people who could do it.

48:22It's just, it's, you know, organizing this kind of thing is, is, is expensive as well. Yeah. It's a costly thing. And I feel very privileged to have been the person who had the opportunity to do this race. It's not like, you know, there are tons of people. I think if you plonked them in my shoes could do it as well. So I'm not sat here thinking I'm some extraordinary athlete, but I am in a space now where I feel like, um, without sounding like a twat my voice um probably can be heard a bit more than before like i was always very conscious and turned down jobs to speak at things because like if i was in the audience and some character from made in chelsea walked on and they're telling me about peak performance or something why the fuck would i listen to them like no idea about anything is the general view i feel of like people on that show is, you know, privilege, money, you know, like whatever.

49:17So to do something like this really, um, made me proud of myself. Like it took, it proved to my former self, the lazy alcoholic, the, you know, anything's possible really when you turn your mind to something. And it was an opportunity for me to really enjoy, um, achieving something great. It's the proudest I've ever been of myself. That's great. Children aside, marriage aside. That's nice, right? No, but like, if I were to die today, I've done that. Yeah, you've done something exceptional. You know, I raised£620 ,000 for kids who really need it. And I've done something that no human has ever done before.

50:05Cool. you know i actually felt so whole totally when i got back i was like that's so fucking awesome i love i love that kind of thing i'm deeply inspired by other people who've done similar things and i i've always wanted to be like them right so now i feel like them it's cool i even get messages from people like them it's like you know it gave me a real sense of purpose i think one of the most interestingly difficult things about being british and british culture is we we hang a lot on people's past and we love to keep bringing it up and shame them and all of the things you know this made in chelsea stuff which is you know understandably a big trigger for you it's really frustrating that it gets brought up understandably i believe you started with that question as well it's fine unbelievable he loves making Chelsea secretly yeah I think so but I think the I think the real cultural opportunity is to find people like you role models instead because what you actually do is say I publicly televised unhealthy behaviour and person who frankly I don't recognise today but still was me it's my past so I am still that person in theory well, that's my body.

51:25But at some point, I had a moment where enough was enough. And I decided to put my energy into something else, into a clear vision, a purpose, you know, entrepreneurship at first. And then obviously, you know, the idea of potential and performance and where these things can get you. And I think that's a really great example, because it's like, as long as we can let go of people's past and actually give people the opportunity to change and celebrate who they are now and where they're going, we'd have a much better society and relationship to, uh, you know, wealth, success, performance, economic growth, like love and kindness, everything.

52:01But we just are so stuck on this idea where people's past and just obsessing about the gossip of it instead of focusing on what you're doing now, for example, which is a great example for people. Genuinely. I was incredibly humbled by the, the, the, the response to that race or challenge or whatever you want to call it you know i i in almost everything that i do there's you know there's positivity and snark jealousy hatred whatever you know like it's usually a little bit of a mix right um and and the the positivity that came from this challenge was was incredible and i agree with everything you've said but that's exactly why i want to do more in this space because it was just overwhelmingly awesome you know it touched the hearts of lots of people um i hope it doesn't sound weird me saying it's right i probably shouldn't be the person to say this but well that's what i just did i walked down the street and it's like you know people are going well i ran my first 10k the other day because of you that's cool and just like you know bits and bobs and just like what you achieved is like completely woken me up to like go and you know do more with and it's just like it's obviously wasn't the reason for doing it but it's so cool that it's had that effect on some people and and it's just like it's just it's just it's just awesome like i had the time in my life out there you guys haven't asked but most people say um no no no it's usually usually no but usually people don't worry it'll be a crap question usually people dwell on like the negativity of it like that you know like was it was it like what was the most difficult part about it?

53:36Well, I mean, I know that you would feel like giving up. I know that negative still. I know you were taking Heights every day. So I have to worry about whether anything was difficult. It was just all easy and flow. I'm not just, I'm not here to, to, uh, no, but it's, it's Heights. It's a brilliant product. My wife and I take it every single day. We absolutely love it. I take your magnesium in the evening and the rest of the pills in the morning. And look at that recovery. It's mate. Honestly, I, I, I love what you guys do delighted to be a shareholder and uh it's it's it's a really great product thank you and i think i think when you when you when you start layering it into other action that you can take so you know like sleeping properly reading every day you know having your coffee a little bit later in the morning less time healthy habits it's like you feel invincible really and that's a great feeling if you could bottle that and sell it you know well that's clean look at that collab incoming Chris is like shut the fuck up YouTube I've got a question no no no I mean I don't know if you've asked any of the questions

54:40don't worry he's right no I was going to say I you know like I have I've never really been a maiden Chelsea watcher the only reason I know so much about you is my wife is in love with your wife she loves her show right however I then became more aware of you because of him and he you know was talking about doing shoots and stuff with you and i think even for me my friends and i aren't exactly like super fit people but we were all like if this dude can run 30 fucking marathons in the desert we can at least do one like come on like let's get our shit together like you know getting up to mid 30s like he's a bit older than us let's let's pull our stuff together he had to throw that in there you know put ourselves together and get ourselves a bit healthier and i do i think it's like i mean whether it's strategically rebranding or whether it's like internal purpose i think the the transition from you know i suppose what you were doing to what you're doing now is awesome i think it's gonna have massive impact on people i just but i just want to do more of that i want to keep i want to keep challenging myself i felt so alive out there and just you know the only negative was being away from my family and kids obviously there was the odd low but it was ultimately a great big high like I fucking loved it I literally loved it like great music all the time good exercise good fun like the part of the desert that we were in the Wadi Rum desert for most of it is like insanely beautiful like the sun you know we'd run really early in the morning see shooting stars all over the night with like headlamps on and then the sun would rise over the canyons and like all of the purples and yellows and reds would just pop and you'd be like i'm the only person ever in history to like be running marathons through this place it's just so like it was just so cool was it spiritual yeah there was i had i had a really bad first day like a really bad first day i was i was um a bit heavier than I had been in my training block.

56:38Um, I had a two week taper where I basically didn't run at the end, but I carried on eating like a dump truck, you know, because I was running so much that like you, I must've been eating 5 ,000 calories a day during my training block. And that carried on. So I actually gained a bit of weight before heading out. Not that that matters. I was just a bit heavier. Uh, so a bit flatter footed and, you know, a bit like flew out to Jordan, obviously got going the following day. And, um, and the GPS wasn't working and blah, blah, blah. there was you know a little list of things that just didn't really go according to plan on day one we were really close to the israeli border all gps was showing us as being in egypt and cairo and like we had a pre-approved guinness world records map like route so we knew it being the very first one roughly where we were going uh but our choruses and stuff weren't working so it was kind of like you know it was saying you'd ran 2k when you'd ran like 10k and it was just a mind fuck it was just not it wasn't fun at all i always had a mad niggle in my right knee like in on day one right so it was like 10 days 10k to go my right knee was in like trouble and i was just like what the fuck i was like i like physically can't not carry on okay so like and i was also trying to hide it from them i wasn't really talking to the physio about it because I just thought it was so lame that like that would happen yeah and I can remember just thinking like shit like this is going to be horrendous if this is an actual problem uh I remember calling my mom at the first camp because we still had reception and she was like how was it I was like this is going to be like like a really a really long month as I was like you know this is this is that was not great and there's 29 left um and then the following morning because you asked me if I was spiritual.

58:25I prayed to Mike, which I find myself doing if I'm in real need of something. I'm a bad prayer, right? I'm a selfish prayer. Like I don't believe in God, but I'll pray to God if I need something. And Mike being your deceased brother. He knows as well. He knows what I'm up to, you know? It's kind of like I try and cheat the system you know i'm not a i don't pray regularly i don't give myself to the lord but if i need something from the lord i'll selfishly ask him for something you know and uh like and i um and i i i i said a prayer to mike um something small you know just please make like these niggles go away please just let me like run safely just for just for one day just i just let me let me just get into this you know and like give me safe passage basically just to you know the end of marathon two i started running pitch black and like 10 minutes into the run this shooting star shot across the sky but it was the most insane thing i'd ever seen you know just like i'm a great big like i've seen lots of shooting stars very lucky but like this thing i i'm still actually unclear as to whether or not it was even a shooting star but it was something entering the atmosphere or a shooting star went the whole way across and the tail that it left just went like dark red when it just lit the sky up and i was like oh and it just felt like this great big sign and all of a sudden i kind of loosened up because i was like i'm being heard by mike or whoever and um and i had a beautiful day and no niggles at all and i just thought i'll do that every morning and i I did this little prayer every morning and saw shooting stars.

1:00:14A lot of the time, nothing quite as impactful as that first one. And yeah, you know, I had niggles and stuff, but, you know, nothing that became a serious issue. And yeah, those experiences are quite spiritual. But, you know, I wouldn't say it was as cathartic as, you know, I did the Marathon de Sable in 2021. I wasn't really ready for it. That was my punishment, by the way, for giving up booze. so when i first when i first went to total i think it was like a day later signed up to the marathon de sable as like a right you've been a prick for so long that you know you can go and punish yourself in the desert um so i did that and and that i wasn't ready for and that was just painful and long and that felt very cathartic like in and out of consciousness almost and you know like that was like a real thing so to achieve that then you know was helpful for my thought process to do this bigger thing because it's like well if i can do that on like hardly any training i you know if i really prepare for something i should be able to do it we talk about narratives you know you had the sort of made in chelsea thing you had this like period of entrepreneurship you've now got your own audience you're talking about global's got a big reach and stuff but you've obviously got a million followers on instagram you've got an audience of your own what is your current thinking around personal brand building your personal brand as the core brand and the vehicle to use to have a platform to do the amazing things that you want to do now it's i want to develop a new show that i'm not quite ready to release yet um but you know i i want to the things i like listening to are you know modern wisdom andrew huberman just stuff that i'm your stereotypical like 35 year old 36 year old who suddenly discovers health and wants to be as healthy as possible and you know that people take the piss out of not me per se but you know you have all these memes and stuff on social media of people taking the piss out of people just like me who suddenly now like have gone from they're probably in their basement gaming i wouldn't worry about it yeah no no i'm not worried about it but no it is quite funny when you get you know people who are very very very health conscious and want to push themselves as much as possible um but no i i love this idea of of of um people being able to change and achieve their potential.

1:02:30I think, I think the potential is, uh, I think that everyone has a lot of potential. I actually genuinely believe that everyone has access to potential and, and kind of unlocking it is a choice, I believe. And like through taking some action and making some changes to your life, consciously making better decisions around who you can be, uh, will have a ripple effect on who you can become and i i like the idea of creating a show around that you know how loss grief alcoholism bad behavior can all be fuel to change uh in a positive way you know a lot of people do things differently right but like mike's death Just like this.

1:03:17was a massively negative thing for our family. so can you turn it into something positive by constantly seeking his approval from the grave almost not that he has a grave he's still on mount everest but like do you know what i mean like can can he be a force for good a driver for good in your life you know i often think when i'm doing stuff like would mike have been proud of me for for doing this and can i do more uh and like you know, there've been times during ultra races where I'm just, well, fucked basically, you know, you're out of food, you're starving, you're knackered and you've got, you know, I feel like he's kind of on my shoulder there helping me out.

1:04:04And, you know, again, I'll say a little prayer and it's kind of, I find him helpful to me at times, even though he's not with me, you know? So I see it as a positive thing now like we i like to think he drives me forwards at times instead of you know dwelling in a negative headspace of but his death could have been avoided and who's to blame and you know like i'm so unlucky for having my brother you know for losing my brother in this way which of course is all relevant stuff but you know at the end of the day michael's dead so if you can use it for positive things totally uh then then that's what i choose to do you can choose to say it happened to me or you can choose to say it happened for me exactly that is that is literally your choice and beyond that there's not i quite want to do i quite want to do a new show like a podcast that's this kind of very positive around change and behavior and and kind of you know, trying to make the most of your potential, which, you know, I've got the kind of mentality that I'll, I'll, I'll never think I have achieved my full potential, but I think certainly over the last kind of six, seven years, I've made really strong progress and achieved, you know, the odd thing that, um, I certainly feel is relevant to give me a voice in this space, you know?

1:05:27So, and so I'd like, I'd like to just explore it more and have, you know, really interesting conversations with other people around what drove them to do certain things you know i think it's i think the idea of potential is really interesting because you hear people all the time just saying you know i can't do that and i it drives me mad i don't understand why anyone thinks they can't do stuff like you know and i understand we're not all coming from the same starting point or whatever but ultimately you hear you hear it for even little things like the marathon stuff you know there's a girl in our in our office who just just says you know like i can never run a half marathon you absolutely can run a half marathon i could have you running a half marathon in a week no problem like like and i know that right but she doesn't know that she's just like it's it's not for me i can't do it my knees wouldn't be able to hold up there's no way i could ever it's like so i i guess i would love to encourage people to just think differently about what they can and can't do yeah and i think it's like it's just as well as being something that i care about i think it's a really fun topic you know just to explore what's possible yeah i mean funny mutual friend uh joshua patterson who did 76 marathons in 76 days yeah um to your point i can't run a half marathon or do anything else either and um he made me do it i did half a marathon with him and I had no training and I was fucked.

1:06:54But I did it. I could not walk for like... I saw a video of you doing it as well. Oh yeah, it's terrible. I was having to interview him whilst running. Literally, if you want to see like funny shit, like me, no training, doing a half marathon. Not even the right kit as well. So hang on. So no training and no previous running experience. Just some 5Ks on the treadmill because I knew he was going to make me do a 5K. Yeah. I knew that was going to happen, but 5K... A bit of training then. So you ran a half marathon, basically with no plan. I've never done one before. No plan, not the correct kit, having never really trained for it.

1:07:29So from nothing really. No, no, totally. Literally, I knew he was going to do 5K, but he literally made me do half a marathon with him that day and it was bloody filmed. And I looked awful and dead, but it was good footage. Yeah, but isn't it amazing? And it was doable. But you did it. A hundred percent. So isn't it amazing? Yeah, it was. It was unbelievable. And I actually, by the end of it, I was like, you know, if he forced me to, I could have probably ended up doing the marathon. I just slowed him down. Here we go. But you get my point. Every time you do that extra mile, you're like, I couldn't do that.

1:07:56And you did it. And you're like, well, I suppose if I'm forced to do it, I really genuinely just could carry on. So my point is, if I were to write you a training plan to get you to do another half marathon in two weeks time, you'd probably really enjoy it. Because the training plan wouldn't be aggressive. It's just like I said when I came out of the desert, that good preparation is the antithesis of jeopardy. A lot of people were writing to us, writing, DMing us, saying, this all looks too fun. Like, this doesn't look hard enough. You're making it look too easy. That's a mad compliment, right, to us as a team.

1:08:31Because if we can go out there and run 30 marathons in 30 days with no jeopardy, that is what we are aiming. That is the straight line to the billion dollar business. That is the kind of building blocks to success. Of course, we had some jeopardy. And of course, it didn't go completely as planned, but for it to be near enough perfect just means that we all prepared for every eventuality. We took all risk out of the equation by being overly prepared. You know, like I spent hours and hours, 12 hours in a heat chamber preparing for being trapped out, you know, with no shade in the heat. All eventualities were covered to the point where at no point did we all look at each other and go fuck what are we gonna do because we knew we had it all covered right so it's kind of like and good preparations the antithesis of jeopardy nobody wants jeopardy when they're doing stuff of course like if you suddenly just decide you're gonna go straight from your couch to run a half marathon it's gonna hurt there's gonna be times 11 12k 16k where you're gonna go my god i'm not used to running this way and that's gonna feel like jeopardy but if you stick to a plan much like if you stick to your plan when you build a business and you understand and you have the experience and you put the time and effort in to to create an environment where it doesn't feel rough then you've just done a good job i think there's also you know preparation and opportunity equals success right so you've got to put yourself in that space and but you have to have the prep like the prep that would get the reps in and stuff but if you can put combine those things, you will find success.

1:10:08What we were saying outside, like, you know, if you want to be a Formula One driver, but you don't want to drive a car all day, every day, and you don't want to break your back trying to be the best, then you will not be a Formula One driver. And it's the same thing with success. It's the same thing with marathons. And, you know, like, can I like, you know, I've raw dogged a marathon before, whatever you want to call it, where I've come straight from a nightclub aged 19 and ran my first marathon on no sleep with very little training and just pushed through the pain and i had paracetamol the whole way through and all kinds of shit that you definitely shouldn't be doing and i was in bed for four or five days afterwards because it was the most painful thing ever to run that distance with no training you know drunk from the night before but you can do it i wouldn't advise doing it you know it's much i don't know if everyone could do that it's much better to prepare like this marathon that i've got coming up in eight weeks time i'm gonna try and go sub three i hope i can do it i think i might be able to do it i honestly don't know if i can do it if i do it in 310 i'm not gonna care at all yeah because you can always do it again you have you have a benchmark at that point but like you know i know exactly what i need to do to do it and i'm gonna give myself the best possible chance of succeeding and you know 30k and it's gonna feel rough because I'm running really fast like the whole way but there'll be a good 50 minutes to an hour where I have to dig incredibly deep and like fight that urge to give up and that's the game one of one of the most interesting bits of advice someone ever gave me about building a brand was you know you're doing it well if you're bored if you feel like you're doing the same thing consistently over and over again and it feels a bit boring you're probably doing an amazing job of building a brand.

1:11:56I wonder like with marathon running, with running in general, you know, the criticism is it's boring. How important is boredom to get to success? Someone came up to me the other day and went like, why do you run so much? Like, are you not bored? And I was like, I like running obviously, you know, like, like, how important is the boredom? Um, well, Damien really disagreed with you, didn't he? about boredom in business. Yeah, that's true. I would say the same. Like, I don't know. Discipline in a way is boredom, right? Or repetitiveness, yeah. I think if I get bored, I just leave. That's interesting you say that.

1:12:36I find monotonous behavior quite difficult. That's why I have a few things going on. Like if I was only working it clean and everything was just like cash flow positive and on track. It is boring, like to your point, because you're doing a good job. The most fun times we ever had it clean was when stuff was going pear-shaped. You had to fix it, you know, because you wake up, you've got to fix a problem. That's good fun. You know, someone bails on the term sheet that they signed and you've got to find, you know, a whopping great big replacement in two weeks. It's tough, but it's also very exciting, you know.

1:13:14I think that is a mindset as well, though. I think some people find it exciting, some people find it crippling. you know i think i found it exciting to be to be different like whenever whenever people around me will always say that whenever my business has hit a point where they're going really really well i just get so bored it's like i like the pain on the way up and like even you just get addicted to it don't you yeah like even the current business i'm hiring my manager director a hundred days in and like i have a feeling that once they're in i'll be a bit like i don't know you know there's this thing over here that makes no money that I could work really hard on and I think it's personality type more than anything that's gonna gonna drive that but what's your the thing I think so cool about this conversation that you two are having is um the the like finding finding the finding the potential I think it's like quite a cool thing so like there's gonna be so many people listening because we have millions of listeners obviously um who do you actually number two number two business millions of listeners number two podcast in the UK oh yeah well god just one spot above I can take back everything I suppose like practical advice to a lot of people who'll be sitting there thinking like I haven't reached my potential I don't know how to get to my potential and I feel like we talked to Simon a bit about this which is like actually some people need a bit of an awakening that they can do a lot more than they previously thought they could so like what are the steps that someone can take like a young person or a new entrepreneur or someone wanting to run like what are the what are the habits to adopt to try and reach that potential well by the way i don't have the answers to that this is exactly what i'd love to explore right so that i can be the voice or a voice in this space you know to be able to give great advice um i can tell you the things that i find helpful you know and that's that's kind of changing um changing behavior like in my case my you know the drinking obviously had to go so all of a sudden you you cut yourself off from that you find more time in your day um you know like for me i like getting up really early i like having a freezing cold shower as soon as i get out of bed uh i i i used to uh you know to have it warm and then put it cold now i just step into freezing cold water in the morning for a couple of minutes uh it really like the the dopamine release is mad it way i know i sound like andrew human or whatever but like it does like it does like you feel like blood surging around your head you wake up like crazy you know the dopamine release of cold water immersion is said to be similar to to taking cocaine right like apart from it lasts like three hours cocaine is said to last like three minutes yeah and it's like and it's basically like you do you feel high and then i i i train every single day pretty much uh you know give or take a day i lift heavy weights uh and i run not every day i drink quite a lot of caffeine i have quite a clean diet i don't know if you've ever read um uh ultra processed people it's very good it's an excellent book like i think i was never a reader i love reading now i think i think reading is just like read a fucking Harry Potter book for all I care read something they are good if you can replace screen time with reading and use your phone a bit less and a bit later in the morning I know that's very difficult for some people train your mind and body so just be out in fresh air if you can be I realise lots of people work in offices as well it's not always possible but if you can just get out in the fresh air and walk and train.

1:16:59I think a huge piece of advice to people that don't go to the gym or don't train is it's a very transformative experience to begin training, even if you just lift weights. Cardiovascular exercise is said to really help, you know, with anxiety, depression, something about having a high heart rate, you know, for extended periods of the day. It's just incredibly good for your health. I think, you know, just as someone that's become more health conscious, I try and use my body as much as possible. I cycle places. I don't really take the tube or cabs that often. I cycle pretty much everywhere. I took the Elizabeth line here today, of course, because you guys are in Canary Wharf, which may as well be foreign country.

1:17:44Yeah, yeah. No, but do you know what I mean? I think it's all really lame paraphrasing now, but if you don't use it, you'll lose it. you know like i've been very unhealthy before i've been very overweight and you know ultimately i think to have to have good mental health i think it is is directly linked to having good physical health like you know maybe not in all cases this is again just personal experience like when i'm fit healthy active you know i have a much clearer mind i'm less moody i'm more present with my kids i'm a better husband i make clearer better decisions i'm able to manage my time more effectively you know but um if you were to take me away from the gym and say like you know you're not you're you can't lift weights for two weeks like i i would have a i would be a different person like my my mood would alter quite significantly so i don't know listen this is all very personal i drink shit loads of coffee like i love caffeine i don't there's no what are we talking i don't know i'll have maybe like eight eight to ten double espressos in a day I'll have five or six for what it's worth really great for your long term cognitive health so it's really really good for you to have more and more coffee and you're really into your sleep yeah yeah true sleep is do you know but by the way that's genetic if you're having coffees after 2pm and you're capable of sleeping I cut out at 2pm I have loads does it mean you're a genius no it doesn't but it does mean that your metabolism will do a half life on your coffee and so on your caffeine levels which is a genetic thing i was really hoping you were going to say like if you're able to have a double espresso after dinner and go straight to bed that you're some kind of like genius legend technical moron you've got an iq 70 right right yeah so don't publicize it no no i won't be um no i don't do that on this note i think it is you know you said something really poignant which is human beings are a filter you've got two ears one mouth all that stuff right but on a fundamental basis, if what you choose to listen to, read your inputs, everything is about health, about performance, about potential, about your chosen career, whatever it might be, if your majority of your time is spent filling your brain with that stuff, you're going to end up closer to the place you are now than somewhere else.

1:20:02You know, just sitting on your TV, watching reality TV is a perfect example. You know, that is not helping fill your body up with stuff that's going to help you thrive over the long term. So these things are like simple choices. But one of the most empowering things I think you said is as simple as you can pick up a book today or listen to a podcast today and listen to an inspiring conversation like this today. And it can have a profound impact on your life if you're at the right place to listen to it. I think so. And it's not it's not even like I would hope that whatever I end up doing isn't preachy or, you know, everyone should do exactly what they feel like doing.

1:20:36It's more, you know, I've lived kind of both sides of the coin where I've been, you know, really hedonistic, uh, deeply unhealthy. And I've also been, you know, very, very clean and, and, and very, very healthy. I prefer this lifestyle. Um, I surprised myself, you know, recently with the 30 marathons, you know, what else can I do? I've got these big aspirations for a massive challenge next year. And, you know, I'd love to crack raising a million quid for charity in a single go and, you know, all kinds of stuff. I just think it's, life is more colorful, you know, when you rid yourself of the toxins and the bad behavior, basically.

1:21:12And like, it's, I don't know, not everyone is willing to listen to, you know, advice and motivation and stuff. but I just I don't know if it's I would like to have a more targeted listenership right and and do something that I really care about which is you know firstly try and achieve my potential but also just have casual discussions around how everyone can be a more enhanced version of themselves if they want to you know because it's actually I find it generally interesting like I can get really stuck into the science behind stuff I love it and I want to do things that matter to me you know I find that you know there was a time when I was running and I was just thinking you know I do two comedy podcasts and I'm not that interested in entertaining people anymore maybe yeah no I wasn't like like do what do I care about being the funny guy not really like actually like it's not really what i care about so it's kind of yeah but again anymore because actually what's interesting about the storyline here is you did and now you don't and that's my point that's great so it's kind of you know no you know just it's it's interesting to me to want to be a you know we were offered a job the other day vogue and i that three years ago we would have torn their arm off to do and it just simply doesn't really make sense for us now so we're just not doing it you know it's kind of i think as you progress through life you have different you know opinions at different times where you are growing and evolving constantly and it's you know i just i i want i want the next thing that i do to to really reflect where i am with stuff and for it to be meaningful so that you can create something that is long-lasting and relevant to people hopefully you know that you're proud of i think being proud proud is like is an interesting thing feeling actually proud of yourself is a wonderful feeling it's something i've never really felt before until you know these marathons um and that's quite an infectious thing it's quite an addictive thing that feeling you know what else can i do the where i'll feel fulfilled you know and and full um so yeah i don't know so it's a deeper conversation i thought it would be it's certainly not rescripted right um but i suppose thinking about that what's the what's the future view that are we going to see more spencer entrepreneur are we going to see more you know um shows television more um you know ultra activity like what does the future hold because you are now both and i think that you know we're a business show i would say that you're a great inspiration for entrepreneurs wanting to draw attention to their businesses but is that is that the future for you i'll always care deeply about clean co i think it's unlikely that i would launch into like another startup at this stage of my life um that's not that's not to say that i wouldn't do it again like i building clean co is one of the greatest experiences of my life right but um having it shape shift as much as it did was just it was it was an incredible learning curve and obviously i'm still very much involved in clean co there's unfinished business there.

1:24:31I want to get it to a certain stage. Um, you know, I, I would like it to be acquired eventually. Um, and you know, and I want to do right by my shareholders. Um, but I'm also keen to grow and develop my own life outside of clean co. You know, I don't feel that I am clean co or clean co is me. You know, we are intrinsically linked of course, because it came from me um so there's that um you know i want to continue pushing myself physically i want to try and find where boundaries and barriers lie um you know i i hope i don't sound like a dick when i say this but you know i didn't even come close to breaking in the desert like not well no it wasn't a whatever thing i was deeply thankful that that was the case you know my body could have failed and it didn't you're quite a good inspiration for entrepreneurs because i think i mean obviously for me last year it happened at one of your events which is like i had been in a business for a long time i had been doing the same thing for a long time i had forgotten that like entrepreneurship in your own life is actually more seasons you know you can do something for a long period of time it can be you can take all of your time but then there's nothing wrong with stepping back or quitting you know like there's a lot of like there's a lot of negativity around like you know reprioritizing your life for yourself when you've started a company but i think for all entrepreneurs listening like there are so many entrepreneurs who get stuck in their own business you know we've talked about this so much like i think it's quite cool that you're able to do lots of things and show that that's possible and you know have different seasons of your because you've had some really varied past yeah from you know it's like everything right it's actually really healthy narrative to just demonstrate that there are options it's not all about just going into the business saying i'm going to build a unicorn and then killing yourself getting in the way of doing that anyway and not even reshaping those dreams like where all this unicorn hunting stuff came from is toxic in itself it's toxic in itself because you meet people who built 100 million dollar businesses and they're like ashamed to admit it because it wasn't a unicorn and it's so true though we sell for 100 by the way if it's out there yeah but we constantly we interview people like that all the time we're literally in rooms with people all the time where they get to multiple hundred million valuation they're like such a shame that we didn't get there we transfer we're like where?

1:26:54half a billion it wasn't the 700 we both sat in the room half a billion you sit in the room and you invest that's unreal isn't it? there was definitely a stage and like we were nowhere near that but like there was definitely a stage 2021 there was definitely a stage where I was hunting the unicorn so hard that I would have 100 % been completely disgusted by a half billion dollar, had a half billion dollar offer come in at that time. For sure. Obviously we'd take it, but like, like if I, at the time could have fast forwarded five years and somebody would have said, you'll get a half billion dollar offer at five years, I would have gone like stuff, you know, stuff where the sun don't shine, mate, you know, it would have been for the billy.

1:27:39Yeah, we're going for the billy yeah no but i was literally just that that was where i was like there was no stopping me and then it's like when you realize the thing is just going oh shit you know like it's it's it's changed shape um your only the only thing you can do is eventually accept it so the faster you accept it and the faster you pivot and the faster you understand it the better for your mental health if anything you know that i can remember feeling like god fuck everyone's gonna think i'm a massive failure and it's like i don't think anyone thinks that you know actually because like it's you know i think if clean coast like did just go pop and vanished off the face of the earth um there's a lot of people who've invested behind me that would be disappointed but then i think about how i invest i only invest money that i'm happy to lose right like and by the way that's not the way that lots of people do it but like it's a gamble yeah You cannot guarantee anything, right?

1:28:38You look at these plans that say, we're going to do this in 10 years time. They don't have a clue what's going on in 10 years time, right? Like nobody does. And it's great to have a really well-educated guess, but that's all it is. So it's kind of, it's just a funny, like I, I, I can remember having some conversations with some shareholders at the time where we, we dropped our valuation who had come in at the much higher valuation and they're getting like really irate with me. And I was just like, what do you like, what do you want me to tell you? Like, we're still alive. This is what's happening.

1:29:08I think we'll be back there in a few years. Like, do you think that this was done on purpose? Like, this doesn't suit me at all. Yeah. Investors, you get annoyed with you about the valuation. Like, look, if it was a complete guarantee, we were going much better. I wouldn't take your money. And I would fund it. Yeah. I wouldn't raise your money. It's interesting. Last week, we had Damien from WeTransfer and he said, it takes 10 years to build a business and 20 years to build a brand. and actually it's insightful. It's broadly true. A lot of the companies that went faster, you know, a lot of them are dead.

1:29:42WeWork, we just had the Master Sun interview, right? Like, you know, that's like... Very different interview. Very different. But WeWork is a perfect example of building that went too fast and imploded. Like, if you try to play that game... Did you interview that Adam did? No, Adam Neumann. No, no, no, no, no. It was about Master Sun, the... But Adam, if you're listening, come on on. Yeah, come on, Adam. Yeah, I'd like to watch. Adam slash Jesus. I'll come back. We'll have a third host. And then we'll do a half marathon. Yeah, lovely. Actually, I am throwing a half marathon unofficial event on Sunday, this Sunday, the 6th of October.

1:30:21We're running from Battersea to Twickenham. You can do the full half marathon or you can join with 12k or 5k to go. You can try all of Hoka's new gear. there are partners and there'll be free cocktails free clean cocktails at the end at the Turks Head in Twickenham what are you doing on Sunday? I'm nursing this infected toe but you have literally no excuse I was in A &E all of yesterday so that's my excuse there's 466 of us currently are there really? yeah yeah that's cool who are those people? are they just just random random awesome people that are coming running with us part of your community?

1:30:53yeah yeah so no literally just I put out a story the other day just saying we're going to run a half marathon distance from Battersea to Twickenham who like just click click here and sign up and uh yeah we've got nearly 500 people coming i think i think we're running along the river all together as a group i think to this point one of them with no permissions one of the most lovely inspiring parts of this is community right like running is a great example of community climbing is another great example of community people gravitate towards these little areas it's so nice and what you're doing being like a figurehead for that concept right of just running and being able to bring people with you as a community that in itself is like what so many people building brands are like desperately trying to engineer all i think great example like i we talk about it a lot on this show but the idea that as an entrepreneur you need to build awareness community following like there's falls off him you know he's asked for a run and 500 people are going you know most most entrepreneurs would like give their left leg to to do that and so it's it's i think the lesson is like understand the levers you have to pull here because if you can do that at the drop of a what instagram post or something then like the impact on your business is moving forward it's gonna be so significant you can do anything you know like you stop doing one business your personal brand goes beyond that one business to the next thing so it's more like career isn't it well thank you loved it yeah really really lovely thank you very much for joining us spencer matthews uh obviously husband to vogue yes vogue's husband