Author of "The Anatomy of the Perfect Website" on: What is the Highest Converting Shopify Site?

33:34Yeah. And every little thing that happens on the website can look broken link, you know. Yeah. My client forgot to put their social media addresses. So they had icons that you click on them and they just take them to the homepage of the website. Little things like that just look messy and uncared for. And that saves the brand. Every little thing that happens on a website saves the brand. What's the biggest mistake Shopify brands make on their homepage? What's the most common blunder you see? so i think that they get too comfortable but that would be my my go-to so i'm talking about more established brands so you have a brand that started really worked hard to build an audience and they they communicate with their audience they understand their audience and then what i've seen is that as they try to scale or as they try to grow past where they are right now they just try something completely different but in doing there's a disconnect with the existing audience it's almost imagine if i believe imagine if apple right apple built their whole brand based on their amazing quality of all their products based on how stylish they are and with that comes the price that people have accepted accepted and that is the apple brand if apple now comes out with an inexpensive iPhone, like a budget iPhone to get more, bigger market or tap into a market that cannot afford the regular iPhone.

35:05That is not consistent with the brand. That is something completely different. And I see that happen where a brand will try to get into something completely different. And in doing that, they're promoting their new thing that they're doing. But at the same time, they're taking away from what made them what they are. And I feel like that's a big one Because then sometimes you've established the trust, you have repeat customers, but you just get too comfortable and you're like, okay, I already have them. Let's go. What else we can find? So that's one big one for established brands. And then for brands that are not as established, I feel like they oftentimes, like the example that I gave you before with that banner, that they put up a banner, but they didn't create what would be an automated discount so that it just happened seamlessly.

35:52Yeah. Yeah. But again, just I don't know if it's a matter of getting too comfortable, but it is something about, you know, we build the website, it's working. So now we can be a little less, you know, careful, I guess. Yeah. So that would be what I've seen, like trying to get into new things or not being very careful to stick with what is working and build on that rather than try, you know, different things or get careless. Yeah. to your first point there was he talked in the book about I don't know if this was the exact quote but it was along the lines of don't don't redesign refine small small improvements over time are often better than a complete site redesign for example like there's a lot of gains that can come from small small changes and often brands think I need a whole oversight redesign and I need to refresh every two years a complete site redesign but you're saying that often is a mistake I do.

36:52Yeah, I actually, and it's funny coming from me because, you know. That's where you make your money. We tell everybody to build a new website. Exactly. That's how we make money. But I guarantee you that nine out of 10 clients that come to us and say, we want a new website. If I point black, ask them specifically, why do they want a new website? They don't really know the answer. It's like it's time for a refresh. What does that mean? You know what? It's because they're tired of looking at it every day. But the customers. That's exactly what it is. That's exactly what it is. That's exactly what it is.

37:22They're tired of looking at it or their competitor did it. They don't actually have a good reason for it. A lot of times it works really well. So why mess with it? Test things, try to make changes. Ultimately redesign it if you want, but do it because you have a very specific reason behind it. If you test certain things and you see that going a certain direction is a good idea and that direction is very different than what you have right now, then sure redesign you know but don't just do it because it feels like it's the right time you know that's like these are actual quotes that i've got it right it feels like a time to do you know yeah new season new new new redesign yeah exactly exactly meanwhile you're confusing your customers they can't figure out they're used to navigation a certain way and yeah absolutely i I find because you can change a million things on a website and you can, I mean, the right way to do it is to not change a million things, but it's to change a few things.

38:27Pay attention to see what works. Incrementally. And then focus on that and then change a few more. Focus on that. But I find that this has to do with the mentality of any customer, again, including ourselves. I'm not excluding us. When you're buying something, you want to really see something big. So if I come to you and say, yeah, don't redesign your whole website. Instead, let's work on the product base. Let's rearrange some things. Let's add this thing here. Let's add this thing there. Well, it still looks the same. So it doesn't look like I got something big, even though that could make your conversions increase by 10 % or whatever.

39:04But when you look at it, it still looks like the same site. It's much easier to accept that you're paying for a brand new website. It's much more exciting, right? But I find that the effort involved, the cost involved, the time involved in building a new site will oftentimes just outweigh the benefits that come with a new website. Because a brand new website, in a way, is a brand new test. And now you're changing everything because it's brand new. There's a time and a place to do that. But I'm just saying that you shouldn't default to that. You shouldn't make a website's biggest mistake that Shopify stores make.

39:43they make a website and then they just let it age for a few years right i'm to making your website yeah such a good point right well and how do you know what made the impact if you do a complete redesign and okay maybe maybe your sales your conversion now something goes up 10 percent where what is causing that if it's completely brand new but if you okay let's let's do some testing on our on our on our on our homepage menu just our menu a couple of different layouts maybe let's add a mega menu with some pictures let's remove all options and have just one button exactly do some testing now you know what worked what didn't and then let's work on our collection pages because collection pages are really important for seo they're really important for how shoppers buy a lot of stuff let's let's try a couple different category like layouts then let's but But then you know what's working within.

40:39But if you do a complete site redesign, you kind of don't know what worked and what didn't. Your menu might actually be worse, but maybe your product pages are so much more awesome. So they're increasing at 20%, but your menu is losing you 10%. But overall, you're 10 % up. So you think the site redesign was a success, but it's not. It's some is good, some is bad, right? So I agree 100%. But at the same time, I know because I do the sales and I know that it's much harder, which sounds funny when I say it out loud, but I feel like it's much harder to sell someone on continuous improvements and waiting and seeing what's happening, seeing what's working and adjusting what's working and all that, than it is to sell them on a brand new signing website.

41:24Because on the brand new shiny website, you can say, we're going to build you an amazing website, which is true. But, and then they're excited because they're getting a brand new shiny toy. Whereas with the other one, you're talking, it's almost like going to the gym, right? I'm selling you on the final outcome, which might take several months and it's going to take a lot of work. But that is how you build a successful business. And that's another thing I've seen from every single, I shouldn't say every single. So we work with a few influencers, they launch and they just go wild right away. I have a good story about that we can talk about.

42:00But for most companies, the ones that are the most successful are the ones that either the founder or someone in the company is focused on consistently and all the time improving the website and trying new things, trying this new app, testing this upsell, changing the shipping price, adjusting the pricing. sending a different email that's an interesting observation trying all the time they're trying new things all the time some you know obviously that's what we do we we make suggestions we help them implement them but they also have an urge to try every single new thing that comes out one of our clients it's called feature i remember we've been working with them for over 13 years i think wow and we've built them six websites in that time but but there is something going on every single week like literally two to three tickets hey let's try this hey what if we do that hey how can we increase the speed of this they want to change things all the time and they've 50x their company in the last you know 10 years just this is exactly you're speaking my language here because this is the theme of the show is one one Shopify one percent and it's it's all about if you make a one percent improvement every day for a year at the end of the year you've you've increased three thousand seven hundred percent right because it compounds wow is that really what it works out to yeah if you make a one percent improvement every day you will have 37x that at whatever it is at the end of the year so it's true if you can improve your website 1 % a day.

43:43And it's not hard to make a 1 % improvement in something. It's 37x better at the end of the year. It's insane. I love that. Such a good observation because I agree with it that it's people that are continually testing. It's never done. It's never a finished piece of art that is done and let it be. It's continually evolving and testing. And I know that there is some people that will say, don't install every app, don't test everything. Yeah. And there's something to be said for that. You could, you could make some mistakes sometime and some, maybe you might do something that maybe slows down your site and there, but I would say the pros outweigh the cons of being like constantly doing things.

44:24And yes, sometimes you'll do something and you'll learn, nope, that doesn't work and change it. It's still good. You're learning. You're learning, right? Yeah. It's, yeah. I think also too, Google rewards sites that are updated on a regular basis in some aspect. So even just, even just from SEO having a site that, because they always have a last, last updated data point. And so if that last updated is every two years when you do a full site redesign, that's not as good as last updated two days ago, one day ago, two days ago. That looks a lot better to Google. And to Google into the customers. That's actually the underlying topic of the book, which is that when I was doing SEO 12 years ago, what I was doing is that I was building websites on a very specific keyword.

45:16So let's say my keyword was black handbags. I would build a whole website around black handbags and it was a blog. So I would have several articles about black handbags and it became kind of ridiculous. It was working very, very well, but it became ridiculous because I would literally have an article about how to organize your black handbags in your closet, how to choose the best black handbag. Like it was really just for the purpose of including the keywords a certain amount of times so that it can rank on Google. And again, it worked very, very well until Google said, what is this? You know, what is the point of a blog about black handbags that has 15 articles about black handbags?

45:57You know, it doesn't make sense. If somebody is searching for black handbags, they're looking to buy a black handbag 99 % of the time. So a blog does not make sense. That's, it kind of sat me down. At the top of the show, I mentioned OmniSend can now talk to ChatGPT and Claude. And I want to tell you why that's even bigger than it sounds. So if you missed it, quick catch up. OmniSend is what I use for email and SMS on every Shopify store I work with, plus for this show as well. And you can now connect your AI, Claude, ChatGPT straight to your OmniSend account. Your data, your campaigns, your flows, everything.

46:34You open a chat and you ask, what should I focus on this week to make more money? And it will come back with real answers about your store, which flow is underperforming, which automation needs improvement, which customers are going quiet, what's missing, everything. My favorite part, though, is AI segments. I used to build these by hand, clicking through filters forever. Now I just type something like customers who bought twice but ignored my last campaign and it just builds it. and anything it writes already sounds exactly like your brand because it pulls from all your previous emails, from your website, your logo, your color, your voice, everything.

47:11I've been doing this for 15 years and this is the closest I've ever felt to having a full-time marketer sitting right beside me. I have a link for you in the show notes that will give you 30 % off for your first three months or you can just use code J30 when you sign up, J-A-Y-3-0. If you're ready to migrate from Klaviyo to OmniSend like thousands of others, they will do everything for you. You just show up and all your campaigns and automations from Klaviyo will be set up and running in OmniSend, ready to go. And usually at 35 % less what you were paying Klaviyo. What I'm saying is that that was then.

47:45Back then, you could pay attention to little technical tells that Google was looking for. You can get enough backlinks and you start to rank. Today, AI is obviously a big part of this, but also Google has become so advanced that what works for Google works for customers. It's literally identical. I honestly, and a lot of my SEO friends might hate me for saying this, but I don't believe in anything that technical anymore. I don't believe that it's so important to have an 8-1 tag. or to have a meta description. I think that - I'm with you. Google is smart enough to figure this out. Google is so smart.

48:30Oh my God, the things that Google does, you know? You think they need you to tell them what's the heading of the website or that you need to include the keyword on the H1 tag or else it's not going to rank well enough. Like Google, first of all, knows who you are that built the website, where your website was hosted, how long the website has been around, how different it is from all the other sites, whether the person behind the website has any kind of authority and you think it needs you to tell it what's the h1 tag you know but that's that's what's kind of cool about it if you build a website perfectly for your customer 99 of the time it works for google too as long as it's like hashtags do we do you think the social platforms need you to put a hashtag to tell it what that post is about it doesn't it knows and it'll put it in the algorithm in the right way to and serve that post to the right customers based off what they like, regardless of any hashtag you put in there.

49:28That's right. I couldn't agree more. So, so the, the way you said it, I see, I always say different in my head, what's good for people is good for Google. Now it's not like what was good for Google is now good for people. But if you're writing good quality content that people consume, that they're on the page, that they're actually reading for a period of time that gets traffic more than three seconds and someone bounces. Google sees all of that and there's value there. Absolutely. And it goes back to, so the way that we do our ideal client for SEO, for e-commerce is a client that has a ton of different products and that already has authority.

50:12So imagine a store that is established, they have a lot of backlinks, they have a lot of press and they have a ton of products. What we do for them is we essentially create collections. It's not so much, you know, yes, we're going to do keyword research. Yes, we're going to do all the technical SEO stuff. But what really moves the needle in our experience is when you're creating collections that are more specific, and it's not just apparel, but it's shorts or it's white shorts or whatever. But you actually have enough white shorts to hold the whole collection. Then number one, white shorts is much, much easier to rank for than white shorts.

50:51And number two, when somebody runs on that white shorts page and they see a bunch of white shorts, number one, it's a buyer keyword. If I'm looking for a specific color of shorts, I'm most likely looking to buy. Number two, I'm looking at what I'm looking to buy. So now, you found a good fit customer. Number three, you're going to stay a longer time on your website. So Google is going to take that as a sign that this is a good result. And number four, there's a very good sense I'm actually going to buy. So it's like win, win, win, win. As long as you build it right and you make your site more shoppable also.

51:23So now you go to the sorts collection and you see tabs, white sorts, you know, cargo sorts or whatever. And a lot of sites are doing that and a lot of sites are not. I often say that it's surprising how you have brands that have made it so big and yet they're missing out on very, very simple tweaks that could unlock an extra 40 % in revenue. You know, that could unlock, that could double their organic traffic, you know? Yeah, that is a big win. I think a lot of people just think about collections in Shopify as, okay, what do I have in my menu? I've got men's women's something and that's it or whatever like shorts tops bottoms but Google ranks collections much higher than they do product pages there's just in the hierarchy of ranking they have more weight and a lot of times I just collections maybe have an image maybe they have a few words but you can put a lot you can put anything in a collection you can put any content there definitely spend time optimizing collections that is a huge huge opportunity and and yeah if someone is so you said like when a brand has decent backlinks has decent media i'll tell you why i said that i said that that would be our ideal client the reason is we don't really do too much backlinking okay so okay i would leave that you know to the people but all that stuff is it comes first like you you you should be getting press you should work with PR firms to get mentions and articles you should work with partners to get links I think it depends right so we work you mentioned Jeffree Star another good example is Melt Cosmetics or Ryan's World these are brands that have a gigantic audience so in a way they they in their minds at least they couldn't care less about organic because a lot of times organic traffic is shopping around I'm looking for white shorts.

53:21I'm not looking for Jeffree Star makeup. You know, if I'm looking for Jeffree Star makeup, I'll go to the Jeffree Star makeup website. But if I'm looking for makeup in general, then, you know, it's a different kind of market. but what i was going to say is and i got distracted here a minute but what i was going to say is that if you're an influencer brand and you launch and you have an audience then a lot of times the audience will just carry you through and you can make a ton of sales without having to worry about those kind of things yeah but but for most of us it really makes a big difference to to have that specificity because it just helps people shop and navigate and you know it has the side effect of ranking on google too yeah i want to talk about you talked a lot in the book about i think it was a qualified versus unqualified traffic you had an example of a luggage company that was about backlinks yes yeah i can't remember the company but that but you kind of re changed how what you did on the website, but essentially you've got some traffic to your website that might be like qualified traffic or sorry, not qualified high intent versus low intent is the high intent to buy versus low intent to buy understanding the differences and then building for that.

54:42So if I think right now, if I asked most stores, what percentage of your traffic is high intent versus low intent, it probably wouldn't even know, but I guess how can, how can you determine that? what do you do do you try to figure it out by channel and then how do you address it how can you solve for high intent for sure i think that there's a lot of different ways to do it i find that a lot of specifically about e-commerce stores when they have a blog and they have an educational article uh mountain bikes right like how to grease your wheels for example or the chains or whatever If there's an article about that and you land on that article and I just have all my products everywhere, not maybe the oil or whatever, that's fine.

55:29But if I'm just showing you all my mountain bikes, that kind of disconnect. It doesn't really, it's not what you're looking for. You're looking for how to grease your new bike. Chances are you have a bike. You're literally looking for educational content. That's low intent. And because, and you know this because you landed on that article, right? you found you were searching for how to do something, you landed on the article that tells you how to do something. So sometimes the entry point is a key indicator on what kind of traffic it is versus landing on a product page, where in most cases it's high intent.

56:03It gets more complicated if you land on a homepage or a page that doesn't necessarily indicate what you're here for. But that's where I think it's important to have a good navigation to guide them. so some of the intent might be looking for more information on the features or how it works or whatever some of those more high intent might be ready to buy maybe the friends has has the product they heard about it and now they want it too so give both people a different path so that they can all be catered to don't again just not focus on the one thing but instead if you know that your traffic is coming from a lot of different places then give those different places different paths so that they can follow like a step-by-step gradual process and then ultimately get them to where you want to be.

56:54Also, a great way to capitalize on low intent is to give them a reason to come back. Maybe by offering something, getting their email somehow. Like if they're landing on educational content, maybe have more educational content because that's someone that's interested in what you're talking about. So if you get them kind of hooked into your content, even if they don't buy right now, there's a very good chance that they will buy in the future. So the key is to just make that connection and give them a reason to come back. That's the key. Just give them a reason to come back. I always say there should be something for every visitor on your website, whether they buy or not.

57:33Yes. And that could be a download, an e-book, a PDF, a video, maybe sometimes even a free product. you know if you know you do the math on it but say you're a health company and i line on your website whether i buy or not get my free shaker bottle and what does a shaker bottle cost three or four dollars right so i go through a checkout that has a zero it's a zero dollar checkout but it's i get my i get my where where can we send your it's literally the button where can we send your bottle but now i'm in the system now i'm getting you know and now you've just got a relationship that you're nurturing that costs three dollars but if you start to think how much do you pay for customers through ad channels that's pretty cheap right so that's a you make a very very good point i find that perception is everything right perception is so important and it goes both ways customer perception super important obviously but also merchant perception is also super important.

58:34I find that merchants are much more open to spending $10 on ads to make$17 in revenue or whatever than they are to give away a$5 product, which is so interesting to see. They don't think of it as marketing dollars. They think of it as a free product. Why would I give them a free product? At least ask for two bucks. Just put it in a different line on your accounting. Exactly. Just call it marketing. It's just so interesting that perception can save reality, right? And for everything, for everything. And, you know, different audiences are so much more susceptible to different little elements and how they're changing.

59:21You know, in many brands, pricing is so important. In other brands, it's not. It's just not. Could you imagine that you have a coffee subscription, right? You said you like coffee. I don't know if you have a coffee subscription. Imagine if you have a company that sells subscriptions and you've got thousands of coffee subscribers. And if you sent all of your subscribers one month an extra bag of coffee with a note that says, this is for a friend. And there's a postcard in there that says there's a QR code in there. that this give them this bag and we also would love to give them a free month 100 on us they scan the qr code and to get one month free and then if they like it they keep their subscription but you've you've already got the box going out probably doesn't impact shipping too much the coffee is going to cost you a few bucks and then you've and then the whatever the first month free on the subscription or half price on the first one i don't know but you know the ltv of your customers you know the the value you can do the math i can almost i can almost guarantee something that that would be worth it but we don't see brands doing it we see them spending that's so true three hundred dollars cac on instagram but they won't spend 20 or 30 bucks to give all your subscribers interesting yeah like what you said i think should be like a big highlight here because that's a great idea and based on my experience i would almost guarantee that it will work like yeah you'll you'll profit from that you know especially talking about subscriptions because you get someone that will now become potentially a subscriber so you have room you have you'll make some margin and all that and and yet i think that there would be it would be so much easier to convince someone to spend ten thousand dollars on a paid press release than it would be to convince them to just give away a bunch of product yeah and i just find that That's so interesting because it's also interesting how it works on reverse.

1:01:24You know, customers come to the site, something just doesn't connect, you know, and it doesn't matter if it makes sense or if it's logical. It just doesn't connect. And that's all it takes. Perception. Perception is everything. Well, I'll give you two more reasons for people listening why you should consider something like this versus throwing money at ads is two. if you have existing customers, they, they are more likely to find other customers like them. And so they're, they're going to have a better ICP, your ideal customer profile. So whether it's, so you like coffee, you probably have some friends that like coffee.

1:02:01If I give you an extra bag of coffee and then a note, do you have a coffee lover in your life? So you're giving it to someone who is, you know, if I just throw an ad on Instagram and someone subscribes, They might have a three or four month subscription and then churn. But if you give it to someone who is a coffee connoisseur, who is recommended from, you know, we talk about influencers. There's influencers on social media. There's this, but you know who the best influencer in the world is? Your best friend. There you go. Your best friend who you see using a certain skin lotion or wearing a certain shirt.

1:02:35There's no better influencer than your closest friend, right? And so you're finding the ideal customer. It's the best influence. And then what I've also done with you is I'm building loyalty because I'm giving you something like the only way. Right. This is getting a little philosophical, but, you know, I don't know if there's actually a true way. There's been there's been studies that on this, is there such a thing as loyalty with brands? Like we have loyalty points programs, but are you actually are you actually loyal to the brand or you just want the points because you're earning them? And I know people who've bought, actually, I was talking to a guy last week.

1:03:12He has worn the same pair of Converse shoes for 20 years or something. He's got red, blue, black, he's got every different color. And you might say he's loyal to Converse. But if you asked him, he would just say, well, no, I finally found a pair of shoes that fits me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's not actually loyal. Right. And so we use the word loyal. But the only thing that actually truly makes someone loyal is when someone does something for you. And so if you if you did something, I don't know, we don't live in the same place. But let's just say my my house burnt down and I needed a place to stay.

1:03:49And you texted me and and you're like, Jay, come over to Palm Springs and you can stay in my house here for a bit. And you let me live in your guest room for a month. I would be loyal to you. Right. I would try to, I would try to recommend every Shopify merchant I had to use your agency and whatever, like that builds loyalty because you're giving me something. And that's hard to do as a brand, like a brand, you don't inherently give something, right? Like I was going to say, I think it goes back to what we were just talking about, the, the giving and also the definition of loyalty. I think you're absolutely right.

1:04:23I don't think there is loyalty. I think that there is comfort. I think that there is something that you're used to. I like these polo shirts and I have some other t-shirts also. I have literally 50 of them. Same with my black shirt. I was going to wear my black shirt. I wear a black vignette, but I have 25 of them in my closet. I'm like, no, I'll do a polo today. I'll be more fancy. So it's funny that you're wearing a black t-shirt, but, and I buy them from the same brand, have been for like six, seven years. that said if i discovered a better black shirt yes you'd switch it's inappropriate why not you're not loyal you just found one that works exactly you found one that works and it's easy to stick with it or i like it and i keep liking it so why would i look elsewhere you know but if i see something i'm not going to be like well i don't want to betray them there's no there's no love and loyalty in that sense there's just convenience and i think that that's a lot of times that's what it comes down to it's convenient and i know that it works and i know that i can buy it in other colors too because i know the shirt i know it works why would i waste time looking elsewhere if it comes to me or if i see something if i happen to try it and i like it better i'm gone that said if and i think points are the very i mean the most basic way to do this but just giving something back an idea more than points maybe a birthday gift every year just giving something that's unexpected your customers i think that can help build that loyalty where maybe it does feel weird well okay i found this one it's also good is it that much better though i know the other one i've been using for a while they send me a gift that i have on my desk they send me a free saker or whatever then there is something that might hold you back a little a bit from going somewhere else now again if there's something else is a much better option loyalty goes out the window but you never know i feel like there have been cases in fact with shopify when shopify when shopify first launched the shopify plus program they sent us a bunch of like little merch they came out from canada we met out they bought me some drinks or whatever in LA and I was like that's cool that's pretty cool that the a few members of the executive team came out and they wanted to meet up I feel cared for you know yeah yeah that's unexpected also I think unexpected is a big thing because everybody's doing it then I expect it it doesn't not yeah yeah it's something more then it makes you feel special and then you're less likely to jump sheep and go elsewhere right yes you know what it is so this is basic psychology of of people there's a there's a really good book by daniel pink called drive and i highly recommend reading it but the premise is it's like what drives people what makes them what makes them do things and they talk a lot about or he talks a lot about intrinsic versus extrinsic motivation and extrinsic motivation is something coming from the outside.

1:07:42If you do this, I'll give you this. Versus intrinsic motivation is you just want to do something. They've done studies with kids and they've taken kids at daycare and they've taken thousands of kids. They've done lots of these studies where they'll say to one kid, if you clean your room or sorry, if you clean your play area, you'll get a cookie or something. And then the kid does it. And to the other kids, they don't give them the lure of the reward. They're less likely to do it, but they end up eventually doing it. And when they do, they'll sometimes say, you know, I just want to give you a cookie to thank you for cleaning.

1:08:26And they found it the most powerful. Versus 100 % more powerful, right? And so, but it was never promised. It was, that was the thing. And so they did it on their own and it was done as a thank you. And I think I would be willing to bet that it would be interesting to do a test. So we talk about, okay, what if we take all of our marketing dollars and we put it in gift and call that marketing? What if we take all of our loyalty points and we got rid of them, but we only surprised customers with gifts? And because when you earn something, you don't feel loyal. Yeah, exactly. you deserve it like i got i i bought 10 coffees now i want my free one but if but if starbucks or whatever i don't even know starbucks has a buy 10 get one free but if a coffee shop has if they didn't actually have the punch card but they had some way of tracking it and if they knew that like when i scanned my credit card and they and it just said on their cash register and they didn't show to me but when i when i went up and i paid for my coffee and they said you know what this one's on the house i would yeah oh my god that's so powerful i would be like i am buying my coffee from you for life exactly versus if i just like yeah i'm getting my free coffee today right and you know that's so interesting what you're literally what you just said let's just get rid of the expectation which has other benefits of course right i'm trying to build up to my free coffee potentially but yeah i think it's so much more powerful to surprise because then it's unexpected and then you feel special you're like oh they're nothing right i mean i would love to do a split test on customers that if you know if in a coffee shop if half of them got a punch card and half of them didn't and then half of them you surprised and delight them and if there was a way you could track right track the lifetime value i i can almost guarantee you it's going to be higher for the ones that you did something for right yes you don't 100 yeah so i But people don't do that.

1:10:29It's very, very few brands. It has happened to me. And I was always caught by surprise when it did. It's so nice and beautiful when it happens. Or even when the company, I don't remember what company it was, or maybe it was one of our clients. But I remember that their plan was you buy the product. It was a more expensive product. I think it was ski equipment. You buy the product. And then they had a sequence for after the sale. Not to sell you stuff. but to check in with you via handwritten postcard by the owner. Hey, I just want to check in. I hope you're enjoying your skis. If you have any issues, here's my email.

1:11:06Feel free to reach out to me personally. The end. No sale, nothing else. I just, I kind of care about you, you know? I just want to know what's up. And I think that even something as simple as that, it doesn't really cost that much. I think it makes such a big difference, especially if you're selling more premium product, but in any product, like I said, just free coffee. Just a free coffee. Because we've noticed, you know, we notice you. That's how you build the relationship, you know. And how you build true loyalty versus someone who is just transactional and it's extrinsic motivation. They are, it's that intrinsic, right?

1:11:42And so. Exactly. I think it would be actually really cool for there to be some type of a tool or an app to do this. There's a hundred. I can see a light bulb. There we go. You can partner on this. There you go. like the the no it's i just want loyalty right but sorry go ahead i was just gonna say i wonder why not more people are doing this there's no way this is not gonna work there's no way this is not gonna be very very proper you know what's more than nuts there are people doing it and it does work and it's just there so a good chew shoot i forget if it's chewy or bark box i think it's chewy yeah it's chewy chewy is a pet company oh i know them very well yeah okay so so they have dog food subscription and what happens with every dog food subscription eventually your dog passes away and you probably forget to cancel your subscription and you get dog food the following month and it's a sad moment because you get dog food you have to and you're like oh i forgot to cancel my dog food subscription and most companies if you if you go to cancel it or to refund it they'll say oh okay you can send it back and we'll give you a refund and there's a hassle and whatever so so chewy said okay everyone this happens to they're going to just let them keep the dog food and they're going to say you know what keep it we'll refund you keep it give it to a friend do whatever you want you don't have to send it back and then the customer feels kind of grateful that they don't have to go through the hoops.

1:13:16But then what they also do, they don't tell the customer is they send them flowers. Oh, wow. I didn't know that. Without telling them, but they have their address because they've been a subscriber. And they just canceled their subscription because their dog died. And they send them flowers. And some people on their team sign it. And what happens to people who have dogs? They probably get another dog in a couple of years. Absolutely. And where are they going to get their dog food subscription next time? Right. So, I mean, that is a, probably one of the best marketing dollars they spend, right? Like it's, yeah.

1:13:53It's there. I didn't know this. That's amazing. And it makes perfect sense. I just feel like this should be the norm. I almost feel, especially for a company that has the marketing budget and spends a lot of money on ads. are expensive they're so freaking expensive yeah and the when you have the customer how does it get any better right you can use like the the example that you gave with a coffee i think was genius you know especially for every single subscription company that is selling some kind of a subscription that is not outrageously expensive right like a coffee subscription or something like that i think is perfect to to have someone that is already a customer already likes the brand already uses the brand obviously they know other people that have common interest to them yeah and you're giving them something and you can building that loyalty building the loyalty with them but also gaining a new customer like in direct and indirect benefit there and the key is not to tell them you don't say after you've been a subscriber for six months exactly you'll get a free bag you can give a friend they just get surprised which is the This is the funny part, though.

1:15:03How much more powerful it is. The same exact thing. If you just don't warn them about it. This is just... If Tui had a big banner that said, if your dog passes away, we'll send you flowers. I'm like, why do I want your flowers? I don't even want your flowers. I'm sad. Just let it be. But without saying it, all of a sudden, during that time, you get the flowers, and you're like, wow. They actually care? This company that just won my money, that you actually care. And that's when true relationships are born because it's unexpected and because it's actually thoughtful. I mean, matter of fact, it is a thoughtful action.

1:15:40You're not doing it. Maybe there is, you know, yes, is it potentially going to be profitable? Yes. But you're not guaranteed that. And I think that also says a lot, right? It's one thing to say to someone, we'll do this if you do that, because then it's a transaction. No, we'll just give you the flowers. We'll give you the free coffee. you do with it what you want you know there's so much power in that totally and at least you know even if they don't buy something at least they got a free bag of coffee versus if you spend uh to get someone to click through on an instagram ad right there's nothing there's no value exchange there so it's better at least there's some value in the hand versus giving more money to meta so 100 to to meta or to someone that's no idea where it's gonna go yeah put it through that and So we could definitely go on and on about some things.

1:16:31I think we probably only chatted about two or three of your chapters in your book. There's a lot where, you know what, we're definitely, we should do a, another episode at some point I had, I think 10 things I wanted to talk to and I kind of got through about two. So that's good. That's, that's how, that's how it goes. Before we wrap up here where I loved your book, by the way, I think it's a great read. I think it's the thing I like about it is you could literally pick a chapter and read it, read the title, feel if it applies to you. I'm a big fan of just in time knowledge, I think, versus just in case knowledge.

1:17:11Yeah, I think I think we often read every book, listen to everything. And we're like, we build all this knowledge because we think we need to. But then but when the time you need it. So, OK, right now you're working on your website. go to these resources like you're working on your home page here's this you need just in time knowledge not just in case and i think your book is structured very well that way so you don't even have to read the whole book you could literally read one of the chapters so yes yeah i always i mean i say obviously i'm a little biased but i would say that it's a good read to anyone that has a store because i feel like they might see their store from a different perspective and again perspective is everything so yeah i think it's important to understand what goes on in your store don't just do something because you saw some other very successful side doing it which is another you know again we could talk forever right then i'd love to do another episode together but another big thing that i see is they come to us and they say let's make it like them they're crushing it okay but if it's not the same audience if it's not the same kind of product or even if it is the same audience, the same product, if your value proposition is different, it's just not the same, you know?

1:18:23Some things could apply to more than one store, but you cannot just copy someone because they happen to be successful. Just like, you know, an influencer website. I could tell you Jeffree Star does several millions of dollars. It doesn't mean that the same website for a brand new brand would do millions of dollars. There's no sense it would, right? 100%, yeah. So it's so misleading to look at the success of someone else and assume what it is that made them very successful. But I feel like that's one thing that I try to do in the book. I try to kind of highlight the different aspects of a website, navigation, structure, copy, intent, all that good stuff.

1:19:03So that people start thinking of it through the perception, the perspective of their customers rather than their own or their own beliefs. because we have the data now, right? You mentioned AI. I feel like I love, you know, I love AI. I use AI all the time. I try to use it to help me do things faster, but I also know that there is a risk in doing that and missing something that's important, especially when it comes to minding the voice of your customers. I think it's important to actually read what they're saying. Read it. Read specifically how they're saying it. Try to feel it. and then take what you can from it.

1:19:44Instead of just me coming to you and saying, oh, everybody talks about that. Okay, but how are they talking about it? Is that really the most important takeaway? There's a big difference in that. But yeah, I would say anyone that has a store or is thinking of a redesign or wants to make changes to their site, I think it's important to read it so that they can understand how to think about it. Whether they do it by themselves or they engage in agency, it doesn't even matter. As long as you understand that there should be intent behind your every action, essentially. Intent behind every action. I think that's key.

1:20:19So where do people go? Where do people find it? So they can, if they want the book, they can find it on Amazon, on Barnes & Noble. There's a few stores. The Anatomy of the Perfect Website. The Anatomy of a Perfect Website. Just any of the bookstores. There's no direct website for the book? No, we didn't make a website for the book yet. Maybe we'll make one, but for now, Amazon works. I'll put in a link in Amazon. I'm not even an Amazon affiliate. I don't even just like to it. It's funny. I am an Amazon affiliate from 20 years ago. Okay, I'll use your email. No, you probably can't be an affiliate on your own book, can you?

1:20:51I'm not sure. I don't know. I haven't logged into that Amazon affiliate account for more than 10 years. I don't know. It's double dipping. And then Weberis, W-E-B-E-R-O-U-S.com is your main agency. The agency, yes. And then lastly, what social media platforms are you active on? I would say Instagram and LinkedIn would be the main one. So Instagram would be my name, just Rafael Ramos, and then LinkedIn again is my name, Rafael Ramos. Okay, and I'll add it to the show notes as well. Okay, we are definitely going to do another episode at some point. This was so much fun. And when I'm in Palm Springs, I expect an invite to your pool.

1:21:29You got it. Both. We'll do a board right then and a pool session. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Hey, friends, as you know, I like to end every episode with a 1 % tip, because that's the whole point of the show to improve 1 % every day. Because if you improve 1 % a day at the end of the year, you've improved 3 ,700%. I know it's crazy, but 1 % compounded over a year actually adds up to 3 ,700%. So here's your 1 % tip today. Email capture is one of the highest leverage touch points in e-commerce. If you think about it, you capture an email, you start messaging them, That like that single touch point has a huge impact.

1:22:11Yet most brands just use a simple default 10 % of your offer or 10 % off and enter your email address and they just call it a day. Like just go to a bunch of websites right now and I guarantee you that's the offer. Enter your email address for 10 % off. But here's the kicker. Just changing the offer can increase your opt-in rate by over 50%. And actually Privy, which is a company that has a Shopify app that allows you to capture emails, send emails. They've got different forms. They reported that one brand increased signups 84 % by switching from a discount to a free gift. So it's worth testing.

1:22:50So here's today's 1 % idea. A, B, test your email capture offer. Most people don't do it. Don't assume that 10 % off is going to be the best. you might be leaving a ton of subscribers and revenue on the table. Now, 10 % off might be the best, but test it. So here's three quick things to do today. Run a test versus test. And what I mean by that is like run 10 % off versus$10 off. And now you can do the math. You know, if your average AOV, the average checkout is$20. Well, then offering$10 off is like the equivalent of$50 or sorry, 50%. So maybe don't do like do the math, like whatever your average order amount is, make the dollar off roughly equal to 10%.

1:23:38Sometimes people see dollars as a real tangible thing and percent doesn't feel like money. So it might convert better. And depending on your AOV, a fixed dollar off might actually feel more valuable to customers, but it might actually be less than 10%. Okay, so test versus test. Next, try non-discount incentives. So offer a free gift and that, that free gift could be an ebook, a guide. Um, um, uh, you know, guides are great. Like guides are like, if you sell skincare, uh, our guide on the seven things to do every day for the best skin or something along those lines. Um, it could actually be a physical gift too, but offer a free gift, um, and enter into a monthly giveaway.

1:24:22These are good because if you do a monthly giveaway, you can actually give away something extremely valuable. Like if you're giving everyone 10 % off, you could maybe give away like a$500 shopping spree every month or a thousand dollars shopping spree to one person. So it seems way bigger. So it could be a monthly giveaway. It could be early access to exclusive products. You know, often these feel premium without cutting into your margins. And also some of your, if you're a premium brand, customers won't really care about that 10 % off. They're not even worried about that, but they might want access to you, access to products instead.

1:24:57And then the last thing, so the first thing, test versus test, try non-discount incentives. And last thing is segment and personalize these offers. So high intent visitors, like you're returning traffic, they might respond better to VIP style offers, like early access rather than a 10%. Like they're high intent. They're going to buy anyway. so they're probably not maybe going to opt in but they might opt in for access or member only perks so so test it and you can do that with a lot of these email caps traps you can segment new versus returning customers so test it test it test it measure it and optimize it because honestly even just a one percent increase in your email list growth that's a huge impact and i guarantee you You can get far more than 1 % with this daily 1 % tip.

1:25:47All right, that's it. Thanks everyone for listening. And I'll see you on the next episode of Shopify 1%. And real quick, if you haven't left a five-star review for us yet, please do. They mean so much to us. We check every single one. And if you do leave a review, email me, jay at shopify1%.com. And I have a very special gift for you. Thanks everyone. See you soon.