How to build a Unicorn outside the US with AI | Arsen Tomsky, Founder InDrive

0:00Marina Mogilko:We're the Hartford, with decades of experience insuring millions of unique small businesses. When it comes to your small business insurance, one size absolutely does not fit all. Get a quote or find an agent today at thehartford.com slash smallbusiness. This episode is brought to you by Indeed. Stop waiting around for the perfect candidate. Instead, use Indeed-sponsored jobs to find the right people with the right skills fast. It's a simple way to make sure your listing is the first candidate seat. According to Indeed data, sponsored jobs have four times more applicants than non-sponsored jobs.

0:34So go build your dream team today with Indeed. Get a$75 sponsored job credit at Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. What would be your advice? First, to be people-focused, oriented. Same time, AI native now. Mix it. Second.

0:52Marina Mogilko:Arsene Tomsky is the founder and CEO of Indrive, a company that now spans 900 cities across 48 countries with over 360 million downloads. What started as a student protest against taxi cartels in Yakutsk, Siberia, has grown into the world's second most downloaded ride-hailing app, trailing only Uber, and ranks as the fifth most downloaded travel app globally. It started to stutter when I was four years old. Step by step, I realized it's not pain, it's a gift for me. The largest failures in my life, they led to successes. Without those feathers, I would not sit here. Now leading remote team of 3000 plus and building an AI-first super app, Tomsky is redefining fairness in the gig economy and challenging how technology should serve people.

1:40And since the start, we intensively use AI in this and we use the...

1:45Marina Mogilko:So how to build global companies, use AI as leverage and compete with the big players from anywhere in the world without access to Silicon Valley networks. Arsene, welcome to Silicon Valley, girl. Thank you. You've built a$1 million plus company out of Yakutsk, which is one of the coldest cities in the world. Can you talk about building a global company being from somewhere different from Silicon Valley? Sure. I can share a few tips how to build really large successful companies with minimal resources. Also, I will tell you why I love the monopolies and how to be happy while you work as crazy.

2:36Also, I think I should tell you the story, how we start. And this is not a very typical story, so I hope it will be really fascinating for people. Thank you.

2:47Marina Mogilko:Let's dive into it before we start. So what came earlier? Your company? I started my entrepreneurial career 29 years ago, so I have built a few successful companies and non-profit initiatives. And my current company, Indrive, we began 12 years ago. But at the time, I knew that I should choose some philosophical way, more psychological way how to build companies. And I had a goal to build a global company. Before, I didn't have it because I was a typical tech nerd, software engineer, and I didn't have such a goal. But when we tried to create something like local Silicon Valley in my hometown, with support of local government and local university, and we failed because I did what I should have done, they not.

3:47So it was very disappointing for me. So since that time, I decided not to be dependent on someone in the future. And I decided to gain all necessary resources by myself. And I set a goal to create something big. So it was like 15 years ago.

4:10Marina Mogilko:Talk to me about the initial idea. Was it your personal problem or was it something you found because you realized there's a gap in the market? Imagine you are a resident of Yakovsk. It's officially the coldest city in the world. some days we have minus 75 degrees. Crazy. And you, January 2012, you wake up to minus 45. And you start... Celsius? It's very close. 45 Celsius, I think it's about 48 Fahrenheit. Cold. It's cold. In both systems. And then you suddenly realize that all taxi companies in the town, they have colluded cartel agreement. And they overnight doubled fares. And you had to take your child to school, like in three miles away.

5:15and you went together, walked it, and each cell of your body feels that cold, stink from that cold. Yeah. Also feels this sharp sense of injustice and that outrage sparked social media phenomenon. People started to agree about rights on social media. There was a special profile, and 50 ,000 people in short joined it, and they began to agree about rights. By that time, I was founder and CEO of the largest tech company in the town. And I saw this was clear social phenomenon. I decided to launch a tech startup using the same peer-to-peer biddings. And we developed a mobile app. Then we moved that social media profile to that new mobile app, and it took off.

6:22And then we launched it in nine new cities. And we launched it with a very simple app with a small and experienced team, 90K for all the nine cities, and two of them took off. And that time I saw, wow, we can build something large.

6:42Marina Mogilko:So that app was basically connecting customers directly to taxi drivers, right? Yeah, you can type point A and then B, and then you can offer your fare, and then you can negotiate transparent and free the model. And a lot of people, they absolutely love it. Not all people, of course, especially in places where people have an opportunity to choose, and also they are more price sensitive. When did you realize you could take this outside your country? Because I realize it's working in like cold cities, right? Okay, it's working for that market. But when did you think about making it global? We began real geo-expansion in 2018.

7:25We launched the first cities in Tarlata, Mexico. And it immediately went well. And we saw that this technology is good for people on the very present side of the globe. So it was very clear so we can, in short time, build a very large network.

7:46Marina Mogilko:But you were basically competing with Uber and other local companies. With them too. With local taxi companies too. But main competitors, of course, these large tech giants for us because they have unlimited resources. And they have advanced technologies, big teams. They are smart. but what is good for us why I love that monopolies because they greet if they achieve large share in local market they start to squeeze the lemon, what I call squeeze the lemon they start to raise they start to charge very high tech rate commissions and this greet is some kind of fuel for us and we especially look for places where they started to do it and we launched there.

8:42And this allowed us to build this large global platform without access, access to external support. Long time, we didn't have any access to external funding, network, world-class tech talent pool, et cetera. And we had to find some alternative way to build this. So this was a way how we did it. We built the entire story on fighting injustice. Now this is official mission of the company, of the team.

9:18Marina Mogilko:But had you ever had thoughts about Uber just copying the model? It didn't make sense for us because in this case, we would hit them, hit and we would lose because we had much less resource, much, much less resource. It doesn't make sense for underdog companies like we to replicate it and then start to compete with these large companies. No, it's better to find distinct business model and then find some inspiring idea. And this idea will attract the best people to you. And you will have very cohesive and inspiring things. This is very, very important. And you too. For someone who's starting a global company outside Silicon Valley, who's an immigrant and who's building in a market where there are a lot of big players, what would be your advice?

10:13First, to be people-focused, oriented, same time AI native now. Mix it. And via this also, as I said, find some distinctive business model, which causes organic growth when people switch to you and also actively invite their social circles to switch. Second, I would recommend launching developing countries where software regulation, lower costs, people value freedom, fairness, and you also understand them. Harvard graduates don't understand them. You can.

10:59Marina Mogilko:Because you're an immigrant, you're from that country or that society, right? Yeah, of course. And third, I think to expand with high pace, to rapidly expand and stay above the radar. Do it in that way that competitors can't understand what is going on until it's too late. This is my three main suggestions. Thank you. But how do you identify that exact problem? So you stumbled upon it because you were actually experiencing it. Is there any advice on how you identify the problem that could become a global business? I think you can start some ideation. You can brainstorm and make dozens of potential ideas where you can bring people real life value, like freedom, fairness, love, self, realization, and so on and so forth.

11:58And then you can cycle by cycle, step by step, test all these ideas, creating some simple and cheap MVPs and see where people start to stick to it and where they start to invite their families and friends. That's the signal. Yeah, signal. And where you have good retention. And this could tell you that this is something here and you can start to deep dive.

12:27Marina Mogilko:Yeah, I also like how you not only experienced the problem yourself, but you also saw people on social media being outraged by the problem. So you knew there's... This is a good way to make some additional research and see what people don't like. Yeah. When you're starting out, do you think you should have a business plan or you should just rely on your passion? Because with my business, for example, when we started, no business plan. I just loved the study abroad market. I went in it. After we went into it, we realized there are like 200 agencies in our city alone. It's like competition is crazy.

13:02Marina Mogilko:What would you recommend to those who are just starting out? I would use both to mix some pragmatic approach with some love, some real passion. And in this case, you will have a chance to build a company with a realistic way, with profitable and reasonable growth. Same time, you will love it. And if you love what you do, it's one of the main criteria of the main source to be happy in life. Right now, not in some day in the future. Yeah, I love that. Do you think that if you want to start a business, let's say not today, but in like five to 10 years, would you still need a university degree or maybe even now you don't need it anymore with AI?

13:56In some fields, for some jobs, you have to have this, for example, for healthcare. So people will go and get this degree. Or there are some very cool schools. For example, this year we launched our non-profit university where we're going to raise leaders of new type. Where is it? We are starting from Almaty city, Kazakhstan. Then in 20 years I'm going to build like six campuses. And this is absolutely free for students. I will pay for it. The idea that we should find those kids, future students who have leadership potential and then give them strong life values and also teach them how to use what I call impact scalars.

14:52art, technology, making those systems where even one individual can make significant change in the world and then we are going to support them in their future career and I hope in like next 25-40 years they will make tremendous change in the world but this is bad for a long time so I'm sure people should continue to apply for such schools for the rest of schools I think the AI will fully change it in like 10-20 years. Sometimes I think the AI like a giant meteor which came and hit and we see some very large explosion very far and all things still be the same, but we know soon this shockwave will get us.

15:47And one of the first fields which will be impacted it's education. So if you are going to apply, please choose those schools where they pay attention to AI.

16:02Marina Mogilko:What are the top, so you mentioned you're going to be teaching people art, technology. You're doing so many things, so many projects. You're building your company. Was there ever a moment when you were thinking of giving up and thinking maybe it's a lot, like too much for you? Never. I had a really harsh childhood, and I became a shirr for my entire life. Second, most of my businesses I had and still have some strong purpose. When you have it, it gives you a very huge amount of internal strength. Inner drive, you see? My inner drive is with you. Yeah. and you never could give up. You can fail, but then you stand up and still move.

16:59Marina Mogilko:I know you're one of the top founders who actually stutter. Can you talk about this a little bit and how has it been on your journey? Yeah, I started to stutter when I was four years old and I started all my life and now it's a very important thing for me. I know a lot of people who did stutter in the past, but now they stop it. But from people who still stutter, I think probably I am. And for me, it's like large source of internal strength because I want to show people who stutter and about 100 million people in the world stutter. Show inspiring example how you can achieve any hate in your life while you stutter.

17:39I saw people who sit at home and they don't go. It could fully ruin their life. For example, I met a 70-year-old man, and he told me he didn't have a good job, he didn't create it, he doesn't have kids. It's so dumb. It's such a big pain. And so I have a good chance to help people, not just by this inspiring example, but also in the future I'm going to find some radical solution using AI or some science, biotech, or something else. I will do it when I will have more time.

18:15Marina Mogilko:Has it always been like that, that you saw it as strength? Or at first you were like, oh, I'm not going to do anything. I'm not going to talk to people. Talk to me about that emotional journey. Of course. When you're a kid in the school and you're standing in front of the class and you can't tell, it's a big pain for you. And all class laughing at you. Yeah, kids are particularly mean. So it was pain for me a long time. And then step by step, I realized it's not pain, it's a gift for me. Do you remember a moment when you were like? I think it was when I was like 30 years old. At that time, I would score myself by that communication skill.

18:52I would set, I don't know, 1.5 from 10 point scale. So if you're a CEO, if you're a founder, you have to have stronger skills, of course. And I started to develop this. For example, I went to shopping malls and to food course when I stood up on chairs and started to sink. in front of people or you went to some public places and talked with people and sorry, could you give me your credit card? What? And nobody did it and then you, step by step you found a way out of 10 people started to give you a credit card and this moved your skill like it was 1.5 and same day it became 2 points you see, and for your entire life.

19:44It's so cool. And now I think I have about seven probably. So as soon as I'm going to become a real extrovert.

19:54Marina Mogilko:Wow. That is amazing that you're working on it. Did you have a coach or how did you come up with the system or is it like something that exists already? No, I didn't have coach. It was my work and I something I found in books something in some special anti-stuttering centers, etc. Then I think we need to create some special methodology for people who stutter. And if I will do it, I think people will trust it because I'm sure it's effective. By the way, three years ago, I also initiated a startup to help people in this. We use the fact when people who stutter, they start to sing or start to whisper.

20:42Start. Start. It becomes less. And when you have, for example, Zoom call, you can sing and this technology could change it into your speech without singing. We spent two and a half years for this. I invested like a million dollars to it. But we realized then that people who stutter, they would not use this. Why? Because there's some psychological barrier. You can't think if you make some serious call. It's very hard. So it was like typical startup test and then negative result. But it was okay. In the future, I will continue this work. And we will find some, as I said, radical solution for it.

21:29Marina Mogilko:I love it. Thank you for doing it. Thank you. Is there a particular moment in your childhood that keeps you moving? I met with some violence in my family. Also, when I was 12 years old, my mother got mental illness. It was a big shock for me. And I was in school with the culture of violence. And I was more like a nurse. It was hard to me. and so all this was hard but I became as a still inside this is good for me so a long time I thought I had better childhood but since someday I realized that I had a very cool child very good for some hate, I had so much love. Son, worms. And I had very good friends, etc.

22:31And that hate and pain what I had was necessary for me to become that individual what I know. So I had very good childhood. And if you don't know hate, you can't fight it in the future. So you should know it. So it's okay. And now one of the most important initiatives for us is to reduce domestic violence. Because again, this is one kind of injustice too.

23:02Marina Mogilko:Can you say something to someone who's watching, who's going through a hard period in their life? What is something that they should tell them in order to use that particular moment to drive them forward and build that steel inside to help them move ahead? Many situations, what you are experiencing and what you feel is a matter of your choice, of your interpretation. So sometimes we can choose to feel joy, not to suffer. But we have also really hard situations. And in these situations, people have to have choice, fair choice. And if they don't have it, it's clear that injustice. and we set the goal to give that inferior choices to at least 1 billion people by 2030 via business and through these non-profit initiatives.

24:07Marina Mogilko:Is that the domestic violence thing? Is that what you're talking about? Yes, it's one of the target of injustice where we are going to give people choices. I love the phrase like, yeah, you can control what you feel, but sometimes emotions are so strong. Is there something that you tell yourself in that moment? How do you redirect your feelings to productive energy? It requires significant internal work, you know. I know, yeah, but it's hard for me. Sometimes I tell myself this will pass, but sometimes I'm like, oh, it's a lie. Look, you have internal child first, and you have adult, and you have internal parent, yeah?

24:48And you should understand who is now talking with you. And usually if you feel some strong internal child, and you should move to a position of internal adult, it's not easy sometimes. Yeah. But you can learn how to do it. Also, sometimes you can think that you need to go through it to change, to use it as some developing point. because without failure, without pain, it's very hard to grow.

25:19Marina Mogilko:Yeah, and to appreciate good things, right? Yeah, but this pain should be not too high. If it's too high, it's not good. And in this situation, we want to give people choices. Yeah. Challenging justice, we don't have the right to change people's lives without their consent, but we have the right to give them choices. Yeah, I love it. Is that what you just mentioned, like internal child, internal parent? Is that what you use to use this method when you're encountering failures or obstacles in business? Look, I met so many failures in my life, in my professional career. So I treat them in a very confident way.

26:03Because I know this is an essential part of life. And you should use them, as I said, to grow. By the way, the three of the largest failures in my life, they led to the successes. Without those failures, I would not sit here.

26:22Marina Mogilko:Can you give a relatable example if someone is experiencing something similar? I gave you one of them. When we failed with creating a local tech ecosystem in my hometown, it was a big failure. But it led my goal to create a global company. First time in my life, you see? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. Let's talk about another initiative that you're doing. You're also supporting women because there are stats that women receive as little as 2 % of venture capital. That's for the UK. What inspired you to do this and what are you doing to help women? Supporting women, including supporting female tech entrepreneurs or doing some women economical empowerment or reducing domestic violence.