Building a Beauty Brand Beyond Trends with Natasha Denona

0:00Hey guys, welcome back to Skin Anarchy. Our guest today needs absolutely no introduction. She is truly an icon. I have been probably her biggest fan for so long, way before I started this podcast. So this is a huge full circle moment for me. I can't tell you guys how ecstatically happy I am to be doing this interview. So without further ado, please welcome Natasha Denona. Welcome, Natasha. I'm so excited. Oh, my gosh. Thank you so much. What an introduction. Oh, my gosh. Thank you for having me. I'm so, so, so happy to chat with you today. I'm looking forward to deep dive into interesting topics.

0:33yeah yeah no I'm so excited and I oh no it's it's an honor that's like such an understatement it's such an honor and I'm just such a fan of not only obviously the amazing brand you've created the movement you've created with that and the impact you've had on this industry for people like me people all over the world so without me ranting too much I want to start with learning all about me no I'm sorry I'm like I like love bomb people I feel like but um no i want to i want to learn everything like tell us like where did the journey begin for you i know mom was a chemist right so growing up you were around like science i mean tell us everything okay so my mom was a chemist not in cosmetics but in unorganic chemistry they were experimenting in germany with coal which was a quite boring topic for me as a kid but i love the environment of the lab so i was visiting her many many times after the school we had lunch together and then I kind of went into her office and she was she was doing three specific things over there she was a lab chemist and they did those experiments and she was also photographing those experiments and she developed in a dark room she developed the pictures back then in the 80s it wasn't digital yet so and I was studying also at school photography so this kind of I got it from school.

2:02I got this background about photography and science from my mom's side. She was also a technical drawer, which means that she was working and collaborating with chemists that were writing their theories and writing their books. So she was also drawing. So her office was full of chemistry, science, photography, and also technical drawings. So this is kind of my world and I think that this gave me a lot and even though she wasn't working with in cosmetics but when you when you you kind of absorb as a kid the environment of your parents and I saw this scientific world world and it kind of even though I never never never ever thought I'm going to go into science or or chemistry or things like that because I was fighting with my mom at home when I was studying chemistry but because I couldn't understand the logic and it was like too much for me but it wasn't it wasn't logic like mathematics which had some logic and chemistry was just off logic I couldn't get it and I would never think that I would do something with chemists today and be myself being myself and working with science but it just enriches you as a kid somehow in your subconsciousness I feel that that it came from there that's amazing about it yeah no I love what you said because you're so right I feel like yeah just being around something like math and science it does like subconsciously as a child like it kind of develops you in a different way that's really interesting and it's it's intriguing for me because when I look at your work across the board like I mean even when you look at the the color stories for every palette that you create.

3:48It's like, I didn't see that before you in this industry, personally. I'm sure like people have different experiences, but for me, when I used to just dive into like how you put colors together, it made so much sense for me, my skin tone, like the way I would approach it. The science was almost built in as an experience for me when I was looking at it as a consumer. So I want to kind of like go there. Before the brand started what was that relationship that you had with makeup or just color theory in general like this world talk to us about that well the world with with color came to me through painting I started painting uh when I was a teenager I kind of found interest in Salvador Dali's work uh and I makes sense yeah I I was reading so many books about his life about his whole ideology and theory about his vision in art.

4:44And I was a little nerd about those things, literally sitting at home and reading this when I was 15. And it kind of inspired me and started to draw and paint. And while I was dancing already, I was a dancer, I started only at 13 to dance, which is quite late. But the art and painting was always a part of self-expression, but really from the inside like it helped me kind of relax and get calm I don't know how to explain it better but I just felt like it was a psychological therapy for me to paint and it started from there and then when I started modeling with a around 18 years old although before that I during dance we you know dancers and actors usually they do their own makeup for stage so this was this was actually the fun part and everything I did my makeup and then I started doing makeup on other kids as well and this was like so I actually started with theater makeup when I'm thinking about it for the first time doing makeup and this was very expressive because it's super big and expressive and your eyes have to be huge for stage and when I started modeling that was in the early that was the end of the 80s like 89 90s at that time models used to do their own makeup and so I started kind of understanding the difference between expressive makeup and stylish makeup and beauty when I when I started creating products and those constellation of colors the color stories in my palace that was because I was working so many years as a makeup artists in fashion so the world of expression of dance maybe and theater at the same time also fashion so I find kind of both of those worlds I love so much and I find it so much fun to to play around with hues and shades that complement perfectly together create a whole look that you can you can work on one color story on one shade that you can build a whole story around that only one shade and you can make it versatile and this is hard it's hard to create like one color story that will still look like interesting and fun to play with yeah no that's I feel like you are the queen of that at this point like I mean I think because when I first discovered your the eyeshadow palettes are obviously iconic but in general it was for me as a consumer very unique to see that you were doing that it was like we were discussing before the interview like the camel palette the even the mini when you look at it it's everything you need for a beautiful brown that nude shade like everything you need is right there and so that was so amazing to me seeing that as a consumer because usually I was matching I had three different things going on trying to find my perfect crease shade and my so to see you do that is phenomenal in the makeup industry because there's so much that we can talk about here you know from the inclusivity aspect and like all these things you know is that something that you how do you approach that the inclusivity thing you know I think that actually comes from a different starting point when I create a product I think about the look first.

8:14And then I imagine how that look would look in a palette, as a palette, or some specific needs, for example, in complexion products, which I'm thinking about as a makeup artist, as a consumer, what is missing, what I always dreamt of that I never got to have or to be able to purchase. so these are like my inspirations of the products and and i'm really i think that this is this makes the products look a little bit different uh and unique and and i think that that's why also i'm happy that you're saying that you kind of see these things in the products and this is also like this makes it the most exciting when when i see people understanding the products why they exist and and that they understand it's more than just a product it's that's a lot yeah no i mean i think that's what's always made it stand out and in your products like your brand has always stood out in my opinion because it connects immediately with the consumer I remember when the Beba palette launched it's another amazing example I mean there are so many shades there that you can create any look that you want and that's where that's why I asked you about inclusivity because being in medical training at the time for me that purchase took me a very long way I still have my original palette and so I like that's where I asked you because now I see the makeup industry is going in this direction where there's so many products new launches every month but then when I look at your work it's like this is timeless how do you create that timelessness and the products that you come out with like what is your approach to that I think that's because I'm not running after trends.

9:56I don't think that I never really think I'm honestly always checking what the trends are and what probably other brands are going to do. I'm going to go in between the gaps. Like I'm going to do something that nobody will do. I'm going to do something that I think is good for always and not only for that moment or for this year or for this season. So this is, I don't know, this is like kind of i see the makeup products that at least i create i see them as evergreens as something that you can always like you're saying the biba palette is good for always inclusivity is a part where uh what is super important for me i mean this is something that is one of the maybe the most important thing yeah i don't i just cannot bear the feeling that somebody will feel excluded i just cannot i cannot have that not for me this is horrible for me and that's why i'm trying truly we're trying our best to include everyone yeah i mean i think you always have i think that's what's so interesting about the brand is that so many brands now and i'm sure you've seen it the industry has evolved so much where people are demanding or broader shade green but i think also it's important to like understand like you have to do this from the beginning you can't just like one day hop on a bandwagon and pretend like yeah we've been inclusive and so i think consumers see that so when you look at a brand like one you've created and you look at that it's inbuilt from the beginning.

11:42I think that translates over years. I mean, let's talk about the shade range because the new foundation that you launched, by the way, it's phenomenal. Thank you. Huge, huge success. How was that moving from colors to foundation and like complexion product? How was that transition for you as an artist and coming from that science side as well? Yeah, so it's very challenging when you're creating a product, especially complexion, because you want to include everyone and then you have to think, okay, but you cannot. We're an indie brand, right? And for an indie brand to create 52 shades of one complexion product is enormously huge.

12:25When we started, they asked me how many shades in the lab and also in the company. They said, how many shades do you think you're going to make? And I'm going to say, okay, before I'm going to finalize the foundation, It also depends on the foundation coverage and also the flexibility of how the foundation will adapt to different skin tones. Because you have sometimes formulas that are not flexible at all. It's just one shave for one specific type of person. And that's it. Like usually thicker formulas or fuller coverages. So while I was creating the formula, I wasn't really sure. So I estimated around 40.

13:01I said 40 is a nice number to just start thinking about. It ended up being 52. I mean, the beginning of 50, and then I saw like two little gaps missing by demand, and I created two more. So it's 52. And this was not, it wasn't even a negotiation. It was just, I do what I think is right. I don't care if it's too expensive for the company, for the brand. I think that you have to compromise sometimes when you really want to do something unique and special for the people first of all and then I think about if it's profitable and how profitable it's going to be of course it has been profitable for a brand to exist but I'm not driven by numbers firstly I don't do that and I think that this is more important I mean I have space to do that so I do it I'm not obliged to to think differently to do different decisions and the people are paying for it with with missing shades I'm not going to do that I cannot sleep at night when I think about those things I just cannot do this so I do it right and then we're checking if we can make it and we make it happen and then it's it you know it makes sense that makes sense I mean And that's, I feel like it should be like that.

14:25It should be like this. I agree. Because it's not all numbers. Because at the end of the day, it's the consumer that they make the brand alive and keep it alive. You cannot think about numbers and money all the time. You cannot do that, in my opinion. Because this is a world of passion and love. And people are really excited and passionate about your product. so you cannot just think about it as a secondary option you know like it has to be the number one thought and this is what it is for me yeah no I love that so much and I think that's it's so awesome to hear you say that I feel like there's so much that can be learned from that approach and I think that for me it's interesting to watch when brands like start to evolve but it's more important when founders sit down and they start thinking where am I going to take this where is my vision going and that's one of the biggest questions I have for you you've created a brand that has outlasted so many in this industry and in the best way how has that been in terms of obviously like scaling the brand right but then the creativity part of it how do you stay creative how do you stay sharp and staying true to what you want to create but you said you don't like trends but kind of keeping your finger on the pulse still I think about it as like musicians okay so a musician has a lot of hits let's say and how many melodies can you invent i'm always thinking about that and i'm thinking about also about the palette so so the team is asking me for the next two two three years what parts are we going to do it was like for a couple for example a couple of years ago i was like okay what's going to be the next part so i'm starting to think and then i have some you know some shades that i love so much but they didn't make it into a specific palette not because they're not beautiful just they didn't fit in so I started working with those shades and kind of what I I don't know how but now right now I'm working in the lab when I'm in the lab in Italy I'm just working on four different palettes at the same time it's just insane so I don't really know it's kind of like when you have your concept I did I have those ideas that I have also usually in the shower or when I fall asleep.

16:42So I have that. And then sometimes we have a conversation with the team, with the development team or marketing. Marketing can give also beautiful ideas. Then random things that I see in everyday life can give me an idea or things that we wanted to do two years ago and we didn't, but oh, but we can do it differently today. There's so much going on all the time. Sometimes I'm just in the evening, I'll just have a pop-up in my brain and I'm sending a message to our group and we have to talk about this tomorrow maybe we can do a product and and it's really exciting because it's these are like iconic and original ideas let's say I'm not iconic yet but they're original and I think that's nice and it's still going so I don't know until when but it it does when you have a specific concept of let's say the Heiglund Foundation the Heiglund Concealer concept so you automatically already have a couple of further ideas for next launches or with the eyeshadows it's always something that can have a continuation in the story so it helps as well no this is really fascinating because i you know another product i want to bring up and i would love to learn about this one more because i remember when you launched the love the blush palettes the blush and highlighter palettes it was yeah yeah and you had a bronze one and then the the blush one yeah the bronze tan we had the bloom as the first and we had the love yes bloom was bloom was yeah and then those were iconic nobody was doing that at the time I feel like when I discovered that that was I can't tell you how much you decluttered my makeup with those kind of products as somebody who never used bronzer because I simply never learned how to use bronzer as a woman of color like no one taught me I thought bronzer was only for really pale people or whatever and so I had this misconception when I discovered those products it taught me something so it wasn't just like I'm buying makeup it was I'm buying a tool for myself you know and that's what I look you're actually buying a look yeah because exactly so when I developed these it was not common to have these type of products on the market because people are always thinking about what sells is always something very simple yeah and I was like when I started the brand I felt like things have to stay user-friendly yes but where's the actual pigment where's the actual professional vision in the product.

19:16It was either this or that. There was nothing on the market that gave both with education as well. So all of my first products especially were all built based on the techniques as a makeup artist that I was using. And so this palette, it was exactly made the way I do makeup with the glow and the contour, like bronzing, contouring, highlighting first with cream, then with topping it with powder. So it was all in those palettes. And the educational part of this was the marketing, was the communication, social media. It was exactly the time where people wanted to learn how you can apply at home in a simplified way, but you get those professional results.

20:03So this was the correct, right timing. And I thought it was missing on the market nobody talked about education because it was kind of too complex and too much and no when I did my presentation to Sephora when they invited me when we launched at 2016 with them I was talking only about education and the formulas and they were like oh my gosh that's exactly what we want to start talking about so it was such a good fit and perfect timing for that and I continue doing that because education is coming back with all the makeup artist friends I'm so happy when I see that every time I see education taking the forefront I love that it's like for artistry and for especially like if you have never played with makeup and you have no idea what to do I mean a product like that will revolutionize the way you do makeup it it changed for me and it was like that's where I think that's where I get so intrigued because professional side of makeup and then consumer side of makeup I feel like there's been a disconnect for so long and it's either like you land on it or you miss it it's never like in between and so that's why i asked you that because i'm like it's it's genius what you created and i feel like now we're seeing it happen like so many brands are doing it with the cream cream blush and then you put a powder on top and everyone's doing it now you were years ahead when you created this so yeah no i want to i want to kind of like shift focus because i want to ask you about entrepreneurship and like your journey because like i said you created a literally a brand that's lasting through years and years of changes trends all these things how has that been for you as a woman and creating this just as an entrepreneur what were some maybe moments where it was harder it was a hard time to get through if you can reflect on some of that for me it was more a personal perspective of struggling with being in front of the camera and speaking because it wasn't I didn't have any bad experiences with structures of a company or whatever it can be or whoever it can be it's more about a personal development that where I was thinking and still today develop my products do my looks and crazily involved in marketing and all the strategies of social media of course and all of those things but also in the business of course but I wanted to do those things but kind of I had to be in front of the camera as well today I'm enjoying it but it was super super hard for me because it's not in my my personal character to all that things go around me I don't want to be in the spotlight I used to work as a model I used to dance it was more dancing was art self-expression modeling was a job and I had fun with makeup yes but then being a founder and standing on on in master classes on stages all around the world today and talking to you like like these things but since I have a story to tell and it's really there's so much meaning behind it so it's easy for me to talk about because it's true it's honest and so it's easier for me it's nothing is like staged or fake.

23:23So it's real. And this is what makes it easier for me. And I'm lucky that people love realness today. I don't have to learn how to talk. I don't have to learn what to say and all those things. I just really say in an authentic way, the original thought. and I think this is so much more it translates also in social media today this is what people are looking for for authenticity and and real people yeah and I think this this helps me to survive in front in front of the camera and on the spotlight I hope that this is what you asked yeah no I mean it's amazing to hear that because I agree with you that I think Gen Z has done that they demand authenticity yeah it's really cool yeah I love that that's interesting you say about the camera thing because that's right I remember when I first discovered the brand there wasn't you weren't so much in front you had the products were there and they spoke for you and your work spoke for you but you weren't always on camera and marketing and all that yeah I'm gonna tell you something about that because i always try to i always also told to safari and older and always i this is one of my most important things about the brand and the products that the product itself has to be the star business like people should not purchase any products because of me they should purchase it because they really believe in the product i understand what it does and why it's existing and if it's if they really love it they will get it and they will love it and it's not about me it's about the product so that's why I always thought that talking about the technique the product the uh the looks this is what people it's just it was my vision that people will fall in love with that because you can never know just saying that uh people should really fall in love with the creation and not with just a face with somebody even though I can understand that but today I understand the connection with me together because I'm the messenger of this vision and it is my vision uh and it's a work with the whole team as well that comes to life so it's like it's a whole thing and and I'm happy that I can give that message and the communication is through me but it's about the product and I love that yeah no I mean that's the that's the thing though like and i also want to ask you because there are so many brands and there's nothing wrong with that i understand people want to be like the face of the brand and they want to kind of put their personality out there and that becomes the brand it becomes the marketing and to each their own but like it's a different concept right exactly but then how do you because you've created like we were talking about with like the bloom palette with the bronze you've created literal category altering products how is that for you when you watch the industry coming back to those creations and taking inspiration from that is it exciting for you or I mean how do you look at something like that when you see these products come up again and again it's super flattering when somebody's inspired and all this I can it's I maybe I'm too I'm too humble to say that I'm humble in this.

26:51I don't even look at this. I'm analyzing myself all the time, criticizing myself all the time. You know, I'm a perfectionist. So I'm always looking at the negative side of myself. I don't even deal with thoughts about, oh, this person or this brand is inspired by my stuff. Okay, but when I see somebody duping or trying to dupe this, this is not nice, you know. this is like not nice but but getting inspired is it's flattering it is but I don't really have a lot of thought about those things I'm just doing my job and I'm enjoying it and I'm not thinking about what I where I do really get emotional about is as young people or people that want to start their journey as a makeup artist as a brand and then I'm an inspiration for them this is something else this this this touches my heart this is nice because you're kind of an example uh of the next generation or something like that so this is nice this is like really honoring yeah I love that I just want to say as someone who can I don't have to be humble I'll do this for you I've watched people do pure products and I'm always like okay I remember where this comes from your fans know where it comes from every time I've seen it happen and I've seen you create like I said just the most iconic things and when you watch it come up as a fan as a consumer we pay attention to that and so like I hope you know that that like it is your work stands I honestly do because I'm reading all the comments not only on our account but everywhere I'm reading It's just interesting to me to see how people think, their opinions and what they want, what they don't like.

28:38This is so important for me. So I do. And I reply to most of the people that are leaving comments on my account. I reply to my team as well, but also myself in person too, because this connection has to stay real. It doesn't matter how popular you become or how big you become. You have to stay the same person. because this is the starting this is where people started to follow you and and and love your brand it's it's it's a whole package you're gonna just leave it out i'm not gonna disappear or i love that i love that you i know i get the feedback and i'm super happy about it super this is super touching awesome i love that no it's it's interesting because you brought up artistry right and you brought up with people getting inspiration on the artistry side from your work what is one of the most I guess standout moments for you as a professional artist that will always be in your memory that stands out from either maybe early stages or early days for you I think that really kind of resonates as an artist yeah like was there ever like a was there ever like a moment where you're like oh my gosh I'm doing what I love I'm finally doing yeah yes the day I started doing makeup I was already there honestly my husband convinced me to become a makeup artist because I wanted to step out a little bit out of the fashion world because I became a mom and I just didn't want to leave my kid too much and working in the industry is like being a lot out and waking up early in the morning before the baby wakes up and things like that so after a couple of months I did it anyway and he convinced me and the moment when I started uh doing makeup and I loved makeup all my life I was the model with the professional makeup bag coming to the fashion this was me and so I loved makeup first of all and so I kind of but he convinced me and it made a click and I was so okay I'm doing this the right way then I just enjoyed every single day every single day I just love the artistry it's it's the art that I used to have in painting I had it from then from until now in makeup and now even creating products so it's kind of here is where the science come in comes in together with the art and I'm just really really having fun every single day with all the crisis and all the you know like the hard stuff of the company and which is which is normal and uh i still enjoy and love it and but the moment where i really had this crazy moment of acknowledging actually wait is this a dream was this reality it was when i got with beautylish 2016 three months before sephora Sephora sent out an email Sephora wants you and I was like I don't know I was like so everything happened so fast I was like scared a little bit because I was never in a mindset of I want to make it big I want to make it global I was never into that I was more about the the formulas and the artistry and and yeah so when we saw the very first window exposures at Sephora and the animations that were all around across the U.S.

32:10this was like it's it is unreal it is crazy but today looking back I see brands going up and down up and down or up and then down and for us it's kind of continue staying true to our dna and it strengthens the brand and it becomes like this this icon i think and and people want to see more especially now after the the successful complexion launches that were insanely good and so so i kind of see see the we see the brand going up up up all the time but not in a crazy way he's going safely and steadily up and healthy and this gives like a really really good feeling this is like pinching moments all the time yeah I love that no I love because it's interesting yeah you're right I mean your brand has like consistently just yeah grown it just keeps growing I love it's wonderful to see that and I mean it's interesting because I think for entrepreneurs now you brought up such a good point where this that steadiness is not what people chase anymore they chase instant gratification I see it all the time where everyone like you want to be a founder now you want to have your own brand all these things but what does that mean at the end of the day like people don't pause to think about that so if you were to give I mean I'd love to get your advice because we have a lot of people that tune in that are new entrepreneurs especially women what is your advice about I think you should Yeah.

33:49So you should always think about staying original and true to your DNA. But at the same time, don't forget that the world is going forward and changing a little bit. So kind of have to emerge. You kind of have to adapt a little bit, but still staying true to your brand. it's kind of a combination it's not a formula it's like something and and i'm listening also a lot from it comes from my stomach like instinct so these are things that you have to be always connected to i believe because when you try to do something like others do you're losing your your your signature image concept and i think when you want to be successful for for the long term you have to stay true to your brand and and innovate that makes sense and i love that because yeah i mean i think that's the main message nobody really thinks about these things how did you get it and sometimes you you just i think get lost yeah but it's hard to do that because sometimes you don't feel inspired you don't have the vision you don't or you don't have the that stomach feeling what to do right sometimes it's leaving you alone and then you kind of wait i I have to concentrate.

35:08Wait, I need holiday. I need to relax. I need to do something to change the atmosphere just to understand to go back to myself. It can be in artistry, in vision, in business. It can be in anything. But you have to stay. If you want to stay successful, I believe in being original and not losing that connection with yourself. This is, I think, the main thing. And there are downs. it doesn't matter it's not the it's not just always succeeding it's not about that it's uh you have to accept failures you have to accept uh things and learn all the time always take everything as your school and a lesson and and don't really give up because life is not always paying not at all and you just have to from when you get low you you have to pick yourself up and continue you can just only grow from there and this is something that also personally but also in professional life you should yeah no i love that so much and everything you're saying is so it resonates so deeply and i think there's so many people that need to hear that i think they need people need to hear this because there's a lot of like there's a lot of interest these days especially in makeup because people see makeup and they think this is my place i can express myself here I can be myself here and then you get lost and then you lose a part of yourself because you've tried to fit in so much so yeah I love everything you said but and I would love to know like is there something you're excited about in the industry right now like something that you're you're seeing happen that you're like oh I like this I'm super happy about the recognition of all the makeup artist brands I I was waiting for that era I was like two years ago one of the manufacturer was talking to me okay so the this and that and this and that type of brands are going down next one is luxury what is the next and I said makeup artist makeup artist brand that was like two years ago I was thinking about it has to happen and it happens and I'm so happy about that because we are the real professionals and I mean other brands are also professionals but this is just a different perspective of that of creating products it just it comes from a from a different experience and I think it's a world on its own and I'm super happy about this recognition so I love that I have a category you know what I mean yeah I was gonna say and it was it was influencer brands and it was da da da da and corporates and I was like Natasha no that was the big thing with your like I said that when we first started was when I discovered your brand I was like oh my god this just made my life so easy having that as a consumer it was like having a teacher with you and that's where I feel like yeah I love that you're excited about that because I think for consumers it's been amazing to have all these brands they're by professional makeup artists so yeah I mean for me it was always important that I wanted a brand where there is a professional person that you can trust and can explain to you how to use the product and how it why it was made like that, for what, and which type of solutions you expect from this product.

38:29And a person that can really, really explain about it and teach you how to use it. Because we want to look good, you know, like with makeup, or at least have fun. And want to know how to, when you see my videos, that I really have a lot of millions of views, and then they're like fun videos with a beautiful added flow. And we're always thinking like, wait, but they have to see the final, the final blend, you know, like they have to see those little things that can help to, to realize, okay, I don't do that. It has to be fun to watch, but at the same time, it also has to educate still. So I see feedback and people are loving those videos and they're helping them to, to create the looks.

39:12And this, this is so satisfying, really. I love it. You're such an icon. I'm just sitting here so excited. Yeah. I, I don't know. I just I feel like it's so rare to see someone like you and to see what you've done and achieved and you continue to achieve it's so rare and I just feel like there's so much that can be learned here and just like almost like your brand is like a huge case study for anybody in entrepreneurship I think because it's just been so tried and true and it's it consistently stays that way I said that foundation launch and the concealer launch that came out it was like you knock it out of the part every time I'm like she did it again oh my gosh you know what I actually in one of your previous questions I forgot to talk about that yeah I mean this was one of those moments in life where I said oh my gosh I made it with complexion products that was my dream yeah that was my dream because it's the hardest the hardest except the mascara the category and this was really because And it took me for so long to work with the chemists because it's not only a vision, it is also, I'm super involved in the structure of the formulations.

40:24It's not only giving them a brief and then I'm kind of, you know, checking the submissions and telling them like this. I'm going into the raw materials that actually I'm super happy that I have crazy access to the newest innovations and raw materials that I just invented and I can see them, touch them and think about what can I do with this raw material, for example. So this can give me also an inspiration of how and what type of product I want to develop. This is something that I've never heard of. I know that I'm really probably might be, I'm careful here, the only one maybe in the world because from the manufacturer's side that they are the ones that are creating those raw materials.

41:07They are telling me and showing this to me personally before they even do something with that. And this is something really unique and outstanding. And also I'm always in search with the R &D and what are the newest raw materials that we have maybe we can use this maybe in the foundation for example just I didn't just add active ingredients into the formula I used the raw materials to act like an active ingredient and the active ingredient sometimes also is a part of the formula and all the texture this is so different yeah this you cannot copy it's it's really unique and everything's made from scratch so i'm super here i'm not so humble here i feel like really happy and uh and super proud i can say it's hard for me to say that but it's true i'm so happy about those formulas because it's really really really really hard and and seeing people loving them was for me i cannot even describe that i went on social media on on stories I look like I just woke up and I saw the sold out page on Sephora with the High Glam Foundation.

42:22I was like, do you remember, guys? I have my team here. I look like, I don't know, like what, you know, my hair like this and a half pyjama. I just say, thank you. Oh, my gosh, guys, you're crazy. Thank you so much. And that was really one of the craziest moments for me and also for all of us because we're working so hard on this. Yeah. And yeah. And I love that you told me about the R &D side. I mean, that's like nobody talks about that with makeup. Like no one discusses that. I mean, so what is your favorite part then about R &D? That's my favorite part. I love going into the actual structure.

42:59I think the conversations and the brainstorming with the R &D, with chemists, with the kind of visions that I have, it's really hard to interpret something from what you imagine into something that is possible to make in chemistry yeah and when you you go i can do this only when i understand the true structure of the ingredients within the formula that can do this this and that and uh some kind of so sometimes when i started actually working with chemists in the beginning like 10 years ago more than 10 years ago we did me and my husband we didn't really know if I will be able to translate and to explain and to achieve in chemistry what I imagine and the chemists themselves they're kind of how how do you actually know those things that you're telling us you know I don't know how I know it's like it's like I don't know how to explain it something in instincts intuitive it's intuitive for you probably experience as well and my mom being maybe some little bit of talent i don't know i don't know because sometimes it just comes to to you and i kind of understand what they're working with and explaining them what to add and what to take out and all those things so in those submissions i'm truly a part of designing the structure or the formula that's I think different from most of the founders what I know I mean I know it from the R &Ds and from the chemists that they work differently with other brands and I didn't know I just do what I think so I do what I think is right and I know this from them and this was and this is my favorite part the invention of something that doesn't exist so beautiful and the integration of science and all of that it's like no one this never gets talked about why i don't know why color cosmetics and like makeup is literally beautiful chemistry beautiful how this works and so i that's so exciting for me to hear that you actually you get in there and you do drive it from that lens i mean that's something that i think yeah i haven't heard of anyone talking about that in the makeup world i hear a lot about it on the skincare side but from the makeup side it's fine that yeah but you You know that skincare is, you know that as a teenager, I actually, when I was 12 years old, I was, I had acne and, and this is the age where you don't want to have it and you want to look perfect.

45:42Yeah. And I had a whole line of, you know, the whole system of skincare. I don't know. I think I had four steps or something like this. I'm talking with you about 1983. 83. Like already then. You're ahead of your time. It was Epoche. It was like a cosmetic brand. And my mom was so angry. You're only 12 years old. Why are you putting all of those things, those chemical stuff on, on yourself, da, da, da, da. But this was honestly already my passion back then. And I think that also it was interesting for me to see why this product does this and that. And And it started already there as well, together with the whole science side of my mom and the art and all of those things.

46:27And I always dreamt of hybrids in makeup. When I created makeup with color cosmetics and to use and combine it to involve also skincare into that. It's not instead of skincare. it's just a healthier color cosmetic product that you put in your skin because me as a dancer in the 80s I suffered from waxy heavy foundations while you sweat on stage for two hours and everything goes into your skin and the day after I look like a strasselbruch in some germans like a little cake with a lot of you crumble it was horrible that skin was so badly textured and I was young there There was no reason for that.

47:15So when I started creating products, I always wanted skin to look healthy and to feel healthy while you're wearing makeup. Don't dry your, don't kill your skin with bad ingredients. And that's why I think the generation of hybrids, especially in complexion products is so important. And I'm going to develop into that direction a lot. Wow. yeah no I mean I feel like you've always been there like as a yeah I've seen that I think your products were for me they were always some of the only ones like my skin could tolerate I have really sensitive skin so for me makeup was always very tricky and I never had any issues with any of your product like it never broke me out it wasn't even even if I slept in it in your 20s you sleep in your makeup and I never had problems so like it shows that you it can't you come from this understanding of skin health as well i always say that if you have foundation on or concealer it's better it's healthier to be with that product on your skin than without yeah go out and this is i totally believe that well this has been amazing it has been such a full circle moment for me i'm i just thank you so much natasha this is amazing it was such a fun conversation and you're so so sweet it's such an honor amazing amazing questions and and this chat was just it was perfect thank you so much it was my honor and I can't wait for everyone to just keep discovering your products is there anything coming up that you can share with us I don't know I'm not going to put you on the spot but I can excite you that we're doing something super exciting in the lip category so and bigger things we're continuing with complexion yes and we're doing really fun stuff you're going to see everything soon oh my god i'm so excited yeah that's so exciting well awesome i can't wait thank you so much thank you hey guys so i hope you love that episode please make sure to hit subscribe if you're tuning in to us on any podcast platform.

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