Building Beauty for Melanin-Rich Skin with Sabrina Dhowre Elba of S’ABLE LABS

22:59And I get it. But here's what I really don't understand. I want you to speak to this is celebrity brands get a lot of hate about things that we never talk about with any other brand. And I'm not sitting here saying every celebrity brand is amazing and whatever, you know? But I do think that this conversation needs to be opened up because there are celebrities like yourself, you know, that you really care and you're not trying to cut corners and you're not trying to like BS anybody. And so I would love for you to speak on this a little bit, because I think consumers genuinely don't get to hear that perspective enough where it's like understanding that, you know, like what does it take knowing that you have this platform, knowing that you have the space that you have?

23:38I get it. OK, we've definitely and I've gone through sort of all of the stages of this almost, you know, when we launched this brand, I genuinely thought we were launching into a white space that we weren't going to be seen to be sort of flooding the market within this overly saturated market with just another product. And then we launched when Elephant in the Room, every celebrity was like, oh, I'm going to launch a beauty brand. And we got dumped into this extremely oversaturated category of celebrity brands where, to people's credit, I understand the anger. I understand the outcry because there are people who have done the rest of us a disservice.

24:14Being a face to a name, a white-labeled product, not knowing enough about your brand, trying to get a quick paycheck and exit in five years, you know, and not putting enough care into it. But like you said, there are people who are on the other end of that spectrum who have put that care in, who do care about their brand, who have made the products because like anyone, they had an idea to create something that they felt inspired to create. And everyone should be able to do that. Brands from conglomerates are no different. We should be judging every brand the same way. Is this brand authentic to the story that it's trying to tell?

24:47Is this brand safe for my skin? Has this brand been made with thoughtful formulation? So just because a celebrity is behind it, like you said, should not be part of that equation. But unfortunately, it has gotten a bad rap. So when we started the brand and saw that, we made a decision to actually kind of remove Idris from the brand. And also not only because of the sort of backlash from celebrity brands, but a little bit because we would go and speak to editors and journalists. And the first question would be like, oh, my gosh, so Idris, what did you drink for coffee this morning? And like, what do you do?

25:22Like, what are your hobbies? And like, it became about everything except the formula. And I was like, hold on a second. We started this brand for a very, very different reason than, you know, the vanity case of my very beautiful husband, who didn't mean much, you know, to look the way he does. But, you know, it's a truth in this world. And I think I always want customers to scrutinize a product that they're purchasing. Your consumer dollar is the most powerful thing that you do. You know, your spending power is so, so, so important. So I think people should do that flat across the brands. But I think you should judge brands independently for who they are and do a little bit of research behind that brand.

26:04And I think luckily now, you know, we kind of have that research happening in real time. You have people genuinely posting about brands and their experience with that brand. And then you can look up a brand and make a judgment for yourself. You can get a sample. You can try it out. You can look at the brand's website, but don't let the idea of a celebrity brand necessarily scare you away. In my opinion, look at each brand on their own merit. I love that. And I couldn't agree with you more. I think that, yeah, that's like, that's one of the biggest questions that you answered. It was like, you know, did you get the questions that were completely irrelevant to the actual skincare brand?

26:38Because I'm sure I just was like, I don't know why you care about my coffee. I mean, I've made a, you know, we've made this beautiful brand here. But yeah, I mean, I always hate that, though, you know, like maybe because I'm just a skincare nerd. and maybe that's why I hate it. But I've been the opposite, I think, in the world of consumers. Where I look at a celebrity brand and I'm like, they must have felt something. Because you guys have so much exposure to like, I mean, you're constantly under the limelight. Your skin is being worked on in the sense of like you're wearing makeup, you're changing a lot, like you're traveling continuously.

27:08There are so many concerns I feel like would come up if you live that kind of lifestyle. So coming from that perspective, I think there is a lot that's contributed. And no one talks about that. You know, it's always just like the other side of it. I totally agree with that. I think Idris in particular has a very good experience of products being put on his skin as an actor. He knows what irritates his skin and what doesn't. Right. And he brings a level of knowledge and he brought a level of knowledge to the brand that was really helpful in a lot of the decisions early on. But I also think, you know, for myself, I'm not I don't even consider myself the celebrity in this relationship.

27:43But I had to build a level of authority that I felt comfortable enough to speak about these products. I am an esthetician now and I love giving facials and learning about skin and accumulating as much knowledge as I can because I understand how that benefits the business. And it allows me to be able to sit in NPD conversations with a wholly new lens and to be able to speak to skin and black skin in a way that I wouldn't have been able to six, seven years ago. So I think it needs a bit of a balance because, yes, you can have world experience and you can have eyes on things that maybe people wouldn't have had the opportunity to have in the case that you're making with celebrities.

28:23But also, I think you need to be able to equip yourself with the knowledge and the tools to make sure that you are doing the job to the best of your ability, just like you would any other job. So don't think that you can start a brand and not know what you're talking about. Because the only way your brand will be the best brand it can be is if you do. Absolutely. No, I really resonate with that because you're right, because people are going to ask you questions, especially now. I think consumers are so well acquainted with ingredients and with efficacy and all those things. So I can imagine you guys probably get a ton of questions.

28:53I think a lot of brands are getting a lot more questions now. I actually always wonder that. Like the brands are brands inundated with people who are chat GPT all of their skincare concerns and then judging their brands on. I don't know why we even allowed for chat GPT to have access to. I mean, I say that about a lot, though, right? Like, I feel like, no, there are legitimate. We get people like chiming into our podcast. They're like, well, chat GPT told me. And I'm like, I'm just not even I'm not even going to pass this on to the brand because I feel like they're getting this as is. But no, I agree.

29:28Also, another thing that really bothers me is that now that ingredients like we were talking about ingredients before now that ingredients are evolving, like there's no way chat UBT can figure that out, guys. Like just FYI for anyone listening, like there's no way like to talk about how molecules interact and all of that, you know, like with AI. Right. Even if it does catch up, I think people should always be wary of one source. I mean, it's like we forget, at least in our generation, when we were younger, you had to find multiple sources for the work that you were doing. In fact, if you had to go to the library, you couldn't rely on one book for your whole thesis, right?

30:01You had to listen to different opinions. You had to read different things. You had to find multiple sources just to be able to defend your thought when you had it. Kind of let go of that now. We see one answer on Google and we go, right, that must be the answer without scrutinizing that. And I think people are becoming more wary of that. Like, you know, I think you hear it with the news all the time. People don't just trust because of all of the AI slop that's happening. you don't look at something and go, oh, right, that must have happened today. We kind of now are maybe the benefit of AI is that we are building a little bit of mistrust.

30:34And we've kind of gone back on ourselves and gone, I should double check that. Right. No, I completely agree. And I, you know, I want to actually like shift gears a little bit, because I think this is a really important conversation that's recently came up, like, you know, it came up in our own DMs, you know, for skin anarchy. And it's always difficult for me to answer these questions, but I'd love to get your take on this. Women of color, well, people of color in general that are approaching skincare often say, well, I'm the last person on like a dermatologist, like TikTok, you know, comment section or whatever that gets an answer to my questions.

31:07You know, whether it's something like ingrown hairs, or we were talking about hyperpigmentation, acne, and I'm always getting these questions, Sabrina. Like, it's crazy. Like, people are like like you know actually like literally i keep asking these questions on everybody's feed and no one answers and i'm like that's a problem because is it is it that we don't know or is it that we just don't want to like put ourselves you know what i mean under fire if we answer incorrectly because skin of color is so hard to treat you know harder in the sense of like if we just don't know enough i mean what's your take on it what's your opinion around like why consumers get overlooked so much my instinct here is that you've hit the needle on the head is that I think people are intimidated by melanin-rich skin.

31:50And I think that they're way more unlikely to answer something that they think is going to be scrutinized and picked apart, especially when also melanin-rich skin isn't even just in one bucket. You know, there's so many different, like, what is for me is not for my younger sister, who's like maybe one shade darker than I am. Like, you know, there's such a complexity to it. So to be able to even then try and group that into one answer is so much more difficult. But I think that, again, speaks to why the beauty industry probably has been historically formulated the way that it is, is because it is easier to treat skin with less melanin in it.

32:30Right. So you're going to kind of take the easiest route out. But history shows time and time again, what is better for the margins will always improve the center, you know. And that's the same idea with melanin-inclusive skincare is you formulate for skin that's hardest to treat, which means everybody else gets to benefit off that. So I think it's in people's best interest. It's in dermatologists' best interest, estheticians' best interest to understand skin of color because it is only going to help you further treat everybody else. You will understand issues like hyperpigmentation in a much more nuanced way when you are looking at all the, for instance, different pathways to hyperpigmentation.

33:07or you were looking at how formulas can holistically treat an issue. Like you just become a more, in my opinion, educated person. So I don't think people should fear questions like that. And unfortunately, we live in a society where answers are scrutinized. And probably to some extent, dermatologists, estheticians, people online are worried about the backlash that they might get. But I think we need to be able to give each other a safe space to have these conversations, whether or not you are an expert. If you get something wrong, guess what? You can just educate yourself and get it right the next time.

33:40So it is a tricky situation. I totally understand that. But the wrong thing to do is to shy away from it. The right thing to do is educate yourself and equip yourself with the tools so that nobody feels like they are unheard. Because that is the worst feeling. I can't imagine trying to reach out just for some information and being ghosted every time you're like that. that's the worst i mean that's why i was that's why i asked you because i was like literally like we get this like at least once a week we're getting at least like two to five of these questions and i'm like this must be a massive problem because why would we a podcast be getting it you know what i mean like and at the end of the day like what it also brings up for me is like we i don't know i feel like for so long like we use skin of color as like a token to like do something and then we're like okay well that was nice but now we're gonna move on to like basically doing the same thing again just like you know and it's like we got to break that cycle like let's stop doing that and let's stay here for a bit because there's so much to unpack and there's so much that's not answered like for example I'll tell you you know when lasers like people were starting to talk about lasers and how you can't do the same thing for skin of color and everybody was freaking like oh my god I didn't know that you know and now I'm going to think about it when I go to my dermatologist well we stayed on that topic for a hot five minutes and like now Now it's like, now we're back to the, you know, like the old stories.

34:58I 100 % agree with that. It's like, why do we do that? I don't know. It's like our attention spans are so small because there's so much happening. That is an extremely important question. And actually, there are probably so many estheticians or practitioners who are using lasers to remove hair who actually don't even know how to do that for Black skin. Exactly. I actually hear from my friends, you know, Black women in my circle, who won't even go to an esthetician who isn't Black if it involves a laser, because the fear there is so now deep-seated that people haven't educated themselves. It should be an industry standard.

35:42In the same way that all hairstylists, in my opinion, should know how to treat all and take care and protect all hair textures. You know, across the board for skin, if you are looking at skin, you should be educated on all skin. And that just needs to be the golden standard because there shouldn't be an issue of like, oh, I'm going to, I can't even use that because I'm this or I can't even. And it's funny because I was just recently in Korea and I went to this amazing clinic and I was remember thinking when I initially was going. Are they going to understand my skin? Are they going to want to treat my skin?

36:17You know, in the end, I just ended up trying Regurin, but I was so happily pleased that the clinic that I went to, the doctor was not intimidated, was so happy and open to have the conversations, understood my skin, and we can speak on a level that, you know, he was super confident in answering. And that's just a sign of a good doctor. You know, I shouldn't be surprised. Yeah, no, but I mean, it is surprising in our world, though. But you're absolutely right. And that's amazing, though, to hear that about Korea, because I've been very hesitant myself. I'm like, I'm a little scared. I don't want to.

36:52I'll show you the clinic that I went to. I was really happily surprised. But the fact that I was surprised is the problem. Yeah, no, I mean, it speaks volumes, honestly. And like another thing is also just understanding that, like, you know, it's OK to ask. Like, I think a lot of people, like consumers don't ask. Like, I know I don't. Like I'll go to the doctor sometimes. I'm like, I'm not fully confident that you know what you're doing with my specific concern, but I'm just going to shut my mouth. And I've had that, like, even like in my training, in my medical training, like even they told us, right, like they used to walk us through these like simulations and stuff.

37:27They're like, you have to be very empathetic to your patients. And like, you know, like, I get it. But like, if you don't ask us, you know, like we don't know how to be empathetic. Like, yeah, there is a lot of tiptoeing around a lot of issues that just need to be at the forefront, especially around what we're talking about in treating melanin rich skin, because it should be the center for treating all skin because of how difficult it can be to treat some issues on black skin. Why not start there? Why not start with what's hardest and everything else will get easier for you? That's right. No. So what was your favorite product to formulate in the line?

38:03Oh, that's such a fun one. It's funny because I always feel like a bad parent trying to pick a favorite child. I was just going to say it's like asking a mother about like which finger is your favorite. Like I want to say it's two. Can I pick two? Am I allowed to do that? There are two. So one is definitely the Moringa lip salve. And I know that that feels like just an acquisition tool for a lot of brands. And it's just like a throwaway product. But for us, it was so thoughtfully curated because I was suffering from hyperpigmentation. on my lips and I had never seen a product talk about that or speak to that concern in the way that we wanted to speak to.

38:40But also I found that a lot of lip products were causing dryness from the fragrances or the act like something like a peppermint that I didn't really, I didn't know what I was reacting to. So I just, I had a really, really good time learning about and benchmarking different products and understanding why they were irritating my lips and then being able to try and create something different. But then I also got really excited when we were doing the okra serum because I knew that I wanted to create a hyperpigmentation serum that put everyone else to rest. I was like, there is no way knowing what we know that we can't outperform our competitors.

39:13And lo and behold, our clinicals came back and we did. Like, I don't know many hyperpigmentation serums that have 120 % reduction in visible hyperpigmentation in just four weeks. And the reason to our credit, I think it became sort of like the thesis of all of the education that we had learned when we started the brand. We knew we wanted to incorporate the hyperprevent system. So we looked at hyperpigmentation 360. We knew we wanted to incorporate amazing African botanicals and anti-inflammatory ingredients and, you know, the amazing antioxidants we were talking about. But we knew that we also wanted to incorporate a retinoid.

39:45And we found something called Simranu HPR, and you probably know about HPR retinoids. And when you're putting them in a formulation that looks at melanin-rich skin first, where you're not irritating the skin, I mean, you can use it twice a day, our okra serum. I just feel the benefits you're getting from that serum on the long term, the reduction of redness that we saw in the clinicals, that all comes from a thoughtful formulation around if we're going to make this an extremely powerful product, how do we cushion it in a way that it is great for still for sensitive skin? And that was really, really, really fun to learn about.

40:15And also just to be able to talk about okra, like skincare ingredients, something that is so well known in so many cultures, but has never really been used in a way that it deserves to. Like I think okra should be a skincare hero. You know, it's pathophilic peptides. It can, you know, decrease the mechanical function in the muscle and skin over time. So it kind of acts like this sort of natural Botox type thing. Although I know people hate talking about it that way, but it's just an amazing ingredient and it's an amazing antioxidant. So I just got really excited to be able to incorporate the culture, the science, the efficacy, all in one thing.

40:51And MPD is probably the funnest part of the business for all founders, because it feels like creative with like all the skills you're learning with like the business side of it. When you start looking at the cogs and, you know, and then you start getting some packaging and the supply chain, like it's just an NPD is so, so, so much fun. So I think those two have been my favorite for those reasons. But I mean, the whole range has really inspired me. I feel like I, I benchmark probably more than I should. I try everything once. Like, I need to know. If a brand puts something out, I'm like, hmm, what's it smell like?

41:27What does it feel like? What is it? Curiosity. I've got to try it. So for me, it's this self-competitiveness that I have that I'm like, I need to outperform that product. But that's awesome, though. I like that. I mean, that's healthy, in my opinion. And I feel like skincare needs that right now. By the way, I love both of those products. So I'm glad you shouted those out because I've been testing your line and I love it. And honestly, it's not just another lip product. I want to say that to our listeners because it doesn't feel like lip glosses and me are not friends. Like I can't. Most lip glosses just irritate my lips.

42:05Like they start peeling. And I struggle because I'm like I can't ever find anything that just sits on my lips and doesn't bother it. So this has been definitely a product for me as well that I've absolutely been loving it. So that's why we invested in the clinical. You don't see a lot of clinical studies for a lip product. So you might see panel testing, but we wanted to we really felt like we were on to something that was that was a great product and a great idea. And, you know, we see that amazing 120 percent increase in 127 percent increase in moisture in just four hours. Like we knew we had to do that clinical testing because we felt like, wait, we've done something really good.

42:41We were excited about it. So it's not just another lip product. It was always meant to outperform, to outlast, to you shouldn't have to reapply unless you eat or drink or lick your lips. You know, it should be able to last. And I hope that you've seen that with the product. And just to have something in the industry that, you know, in such an oversaturated category now that feels like it can kind of stand out, I hope inspires other brands to not feel like, oh, everyone's doing lip. We're just going to do lip. No, how are you going to differentiate your product from everything else that's coming out?

43:10And I do see a couple of brands do that. the brands that I admire are always pushing boundaries on the categories that they're coming into. And that's the brand that I always want us to be at Sable. If we're going to put something out, like I'd love to put out an eye cream, I'm not putting an eye cream out until I am wholly satisfied that there is a fundamental USP to that product that allows it to outperform other eye creams. Because to me, it's also such a boring category. It is, but it can be amazing though. I'm glad you said that. I mean, I feel like, because you brought up okra earlier. I mean, the okra is brilliant that you actually made that a hero ingredient because you're right and i feel like that's exactly the the kind of take you need to create a great eye cream because we don't know anything about the eye area let's be real you know from the skin science perspective i'm just i had to unlearn a lot of things in you know a stitch and course about like i always thought like if it was overly occlusive it was going to cause milia for instance or you know like there's so there's actually so much marketing knowledge that we have in eye creams where there's less scientific knowledge that we have because they don't know anything can i ask you something i know you're kidding me but i have become so invested in the world of peptides and injectable peptides and the ghkcus of this world and where that field is going and i'm so determined to hear your thoughts on because i know i've actually watched segments that you've around peptides and copper peptides and how that it works on skin.

44:38But do you think that people will just be injecting skincare in the near future? Yeah, I think they're already doing it. And it scares the living bejesus out of me. Like, yeah, because I honestly, and I'll tell you what, I have spent years in wound healing research and like my love of my life is research. So like, I know this field very, very well at this point. And I can tell you every major discovery that we're seeing in regenerative medicine come out right now comes from wound healing. And that's the case with GHK copper, for example. Like our body, like in a wound upregulates it 10 times its normal amount, but that's the body literally screaming out for help.

45:15So like one of my biggest, like I worry for consumers because I'm like, we don't realize that when we inject ourselves, we're injecting it into the physiology that's normal and stable. Like, you know what I mean? Like our body is stable. It's not asking for that much help. So when you bombard it, the risk of like immunogenicity and like having a really bad like reaction like that is just it goes up astronomically so i agree with you i think we're going to be injecting our skincare do i think we should absolutely not like i don't think we should does it make you excited about the possibilities there because i think what will happen is we probably will go too far and then there will be a balance that we found that works because your concern is so wholly valid because i'm looking at them and i i don't even like needles so i'm like scared of anything that i have to but i also see i have friends who've seen amazing results and you know and some of the like i mean like the tanning peptides and all this amazing no i don't doubt it right like i don't i don't sit and doubt it because obviously science is science like if you can prove it you know it's there but my thing is like exactly what like i feel like it's going to get bad before it gets good and i'm scared of it getting bad and i'm scared of like things like necrosis yeah like you know like scary yeah i mean the real i mean think about what happened with fillers though you know what i mean like when everybody started getting fillers and then you had like serious like adverse reactions people were getting necrosis on their nose and like it was just terrible and then we finally as industry were like reel it back reel it back you know like just so it has to almost get that bad before we then regulate it yeah that's that i think we're kind of like that as humans with everything we gotta break it first we gotta break it first you know like maybe now people will listen to this conversation and we're gonna be such movers and shakers that they're gonna go we can't let it get bad we'll be the two advocates like we get it but don't do it we're here with you but not really there but But I love that you're worried about it.

47:17And I look forward to seeing you make more content about that, because I think people like yourself are so important to the industry who have the background and the education to be able to kind of really tell us how it is, because there's so many, unfortunately, people out there who are speaking on subjects that they just don't know enough about and spreading misinformation. and I worry about that. Like a young 16-year-old me, I was actually better off probably with how frustrated I felt. I actually worry more about a 16-year-old girl now trying to understand her skin and treat her skin. It's a scary world.

47:54Like I'm not a mother, but if I had a daughter and she was in that age, like I would be scared for her life every day. Just because like there's just so much and so many people, I mean, obviously free speech is the best thing in the world, but it's like when you use your free speech to just go on a tangent about things you know nothing about and then young people are listening you know what i mean and they're doing things that are going to be incredibly harmful you know in the long term it scares it scares me to death like it's very very scary especially when you look at you know generations like gen alpha who are buying skincare when they're 11 years old it it takes i think also parents having to educate themselves not just picking up whatever your your young pre-teen sees on a counter and just to you know because everybody else at school is doing it.

48:37And that hopefully, like we said, when things get really bad, people start to make fixes and maybe it's gone as bad as it can get. Maybe that's me being all - I hope it's going to go better from here on out, you know? And I felt, I will say this, and because just we're having a conversation, I will say I felt really bad for some of the brands that got a bad reputation because they had colorful packaging. Like I did feel bad for them. Like, I'll be real, because they didn't make colorful packaging because they were trying to sell to like babies. You know what I mean? They just thought it was a fun color.

49:09And I feel bad. A part of me does feel bad about that. You know, it's like, I feel like we just attacked the wrong people for that. But I do think those same brands have responsibility to make those statements and to make that clear and to not go, oh, we didn't really do that, but we're just going to ride it up. Yeah, no, I do agree with that. Absolutely. No, 100%. But you know, I'm a huge fan of Stable Labs, Serena. I think what you're doing is awesome. And I want to close with just some words of wisdom from you for the young female entrepreneurs out there that want to start their own thing. And you know, they might be like on that fence of like, should I do it?

49:45Should I not do it? Anything that you can share? You should absolutely do it. If I give you one piece of advice, it would be to ask everyone you know, you see in your network, all the questions that you have, because there is no bad question when you are trying to get into business. In fact, I have probably gained the more knowledge than any other source from the people around me. That's how you learn. Conversation, questions. We need to be able to ask each other, to leverage our networks, to send a DM to someone you think may never respond. You know what? They may respond. That happened to me really early on in this brand journey is I had two amazing women, businesswomen, Charlotte Tilbury and Barbara Sturm, who, you know, I'm like, whatever you think about their brands, they are undeniable businesswomen who spoke to me and gave me such critical advice early on.

50:34And I would never have known that they would have done that if I didn't just try. So send a DM, try it, may work out in your favor. I love that. I really love that. Well, thank you so much. This has been such an honor and I'm such a fan of what you're creating and I can't wait to watch Sable Labs like grow and expand and all the beautiful things that are to come. I can't wait to meet you in person one day. Yes, please. I love it. I love it. Thank you so much.