Discover How Framesi is Transforming Scalp and Hair Health with Quality Ingredients

0:00Hey guys, welcome back to Skin Anarchy. This is Zekda. I'm really really excited to chat with you guys today because we are hosting a wonderful hair care line and brand brand brand that I'm very excited to skin and I'm very excited to skin care. to and to actually just chat about hair health overall because as many of you know and you know a lot of you listen in um quite frequently um when we have our hair care episodes you know this is a topic that's not talked about enough mostly also the fact that it's evolving so rapidly when it comes to things like scalp care and truly the health of every aspect of your hair you know it's a very very important discussion so without me ranting too much i would love to introduce you guys the vice president of product development are at fermi c and the product development assistant as well so please welcome maria de santos and sharday bow welcome thank you thank you for having us this morning hello thank you it's lovely to host you both i'd love to dive in and actually talk about the brand if maria you could kind of walk us down memory lane of the fermi c the brand itself is a family-owned company headquartered in Milan, Italy, the center of world fashion.

1:09So we are worldwide leaders in fashion and hair artistry, product technology, innovation. We are known for our highest conditioning and richest coconut cream-based hair color. So you'll find all of our colors truly superior in performance because of that rich coconut nut cream base that we brought years ago. And we have leading industry educators that support all these products. And today we're excited about even our hair care lines as well as our hair color brands. So not only are our hair colors full of natural ingredients and great for the hair, but also we have the products that support that scalp and hair needs to allow that hair color to truly shine its best and be the longest lasting hair color until your next service in the salon.

2:06That's pretty cool. Yeah, I feel like there's a lot of new innovations that have taken place, you know, in the last 10 years in the hair care industry. So that's very exciting to hear that you guys have been kind of at the forefront for a long time. Yes, yes, we have. And with our partners in Formici and Italy and Milan, Italy, You know, we try to really address the needs of the market. Like right now, there has been an increase in scalp knowledge. Everybody, our consumers are more aware. You know, they're starting to realize that the scalp is truly the foundation of hair health. You know, kind of like the skinification, you know, the skin.

2:42It's an extension of your skin, of your face, you know. And so there's more and more searches. Our consumers are becoming more aware. You know, they're looking for these type of products that address the scalp and the needs of the scalp, knowing that scalp, you know, taking care of the scalp will result in more healthy hair. And what we're finding now, too, is our consumers are more aware of sustainability and the environment. You know, they want eco-friendly products, you know, environmentally friendly that work. You know, so not only do we need, you know, there's a need for products that are targeted that will address the needs of the scalp.

3:25You know, we're trying to give the salon, the stylist, the tools they need in the salon and what they're faced with daily as their clients come in. So not only are we providing the products that work, we take a targeted approach where we put specific ingredients that address the specific need of the scalper here, but also an energy efficient, environmentally friendly way. So not only is it in our procedures of how these products are made, but it's using the best ingredients from the Mediterranean using cold processing technology that doesn't use heat and sustainable ingredients. All of that, because that our consumer is more interested in.

4:15They want products that work, but the products definitely have to be environmentally friendly right now. right absolutely no i couldn't agree more and you know i was having a conversation just the other day about how much this is becoming a much more needed conversation around sustainability especially because you know now we're discovering things like nanoplastics right and like just what they're doing to our bodies and i know with hair for a long time there was this conversation that centered around the idea of like what is depositing on your scalp you know even when you take a shower and like, you know, people talk about like hard water and soft water and that kind of terminology, but really it comes down to like, whenever you take a shower, there are certain things that get deposited onto your scalp.

5:00So scalp health has become very, very important. And then along with it comes this idea of sustainability, you know. That's correct. That's correct. And that's what we've seen in the years is an increase in that. You have an increase in clients that, you know, get their hair color done and maybe they're they're itching a little bit more now. You know, there's that more sensitive scalp. There's a more thinning hair, you know, and all. So the scalp is important and it's important to remove all that residue, whether it's from minerals, whether it's from your waters, the pollution, the environment, all of that ends up blocking that hair follicle, ends up interfering with the normal growth of the hair ends up also interfering with your color services you know that's what we find that even color you know hair becomes more harder to color more aggressive you know needs a more aggressive formula because there are ingredients you know there's that residue that builds up on the hair on the scalp that interferes with gray coverage there's you know your minerals that in in waters heavy pollution all of that ends up interfering with the color service so it's important to have these products we have scrubs you know everybody's looking for a scrub just like you exfoliate the face it's important to also exfoliate the scalp you know by removing all this from the scalp whether it's oils whether it's dandruff whatever it is by removing that you're creative a healthier environment for hair growth you're creating an environment also that allows your nutrients to go in, to your styling products to work better, your hair color to work better, because you've removed that residue that interferes with all that.

6:49Absolutely. Now, I know, Maria, you have a chemistry background. You know, as a degreed chemist, you know, and also you're a licensed hairdresser, you have a very unique perspective here, you know, and I'd love to ask you, you know, what do you think some of the most impactful ingredients are when it comes to formulation? Well, depending on the need, you know, definitely we target, you know, hair color, hair that's been color treated. So our market is color treated hair. And when you have a color service or a chemical service on the hair, you deplete protein from the hair and deplete the natural lipid layers of the hair.

7:28So it's important that we find ingredients that replace that. So we're always in search of great amino acids, vitamins. Now, hyaluronic acid is really important to us because that's very moisturizing. So those are the ingredients we look for, ingredients that replace what is eliminated daily from the hair, from the environment. So our ingredients are always full of, you know, our products are always formulated to include not only what the problem is, you know, if the hair over the scalp, if it's an exfoliating, depending on what the need is, but we, all of our products, because they address color treated hair, they will contain UV protectants, proteins that replenish what is depleted from the environment, you know, all of that, antioxidants to address better health long-term.

8:25Right now, there's a lot of fermented extracts that are new. We try to be innovative in ingredients. We're always trying to see the latest and greatest as far as what works better then. That's why we became fond of hyaluronic acid years ago. And we were the first to introduce that into hair care. It was being used in skin care and worked fantastic for the moisturizing the skin but we were the first to use it in hair care and found that you know it moisturizes the hair as well and it's needed to replace what is daily depleted from the environment pollution and everything else that we do to our hair daily wow so is there like a difference in like molecular weight of the hyaluronic acid that you're using compared to like a skincare formulation no i mean it's the same hyaluronic acid.

9:15You know, the smaller depends, again, depends on the different needs in the hair. Yeah. Yeah. So if the hair is damaged and breaking, then we go into the smaller amino acid type ingredients that will go in and rebuild versus something bigger that maybe lays on the surface, you know, and gives the hair or the body and shine. So again, it depends on the product. You know, we take a very targeted approach with our ingredients. Right. Every ingredient is there for a purpose and uh you know so that's that's important to us and that's why with our even our line of scalp and hair products that uh we're we're talking about today a little bit more we we do take that targeted approach you know because even with exfoliators let's say for example scalp exfoliation because we believe that's very critical right now to remove all that residue from the scalp.

10:11But even with that, we have two. We have one that targets those that have sensitive and their redditing of the scalp, inflammation of the scalp. So in that formula, we're going to have ingredients that soothe the scalp, you know, calming type ingredients versus our other exfoliator for the oily scalp where we have some coffee bean extracts in there. You know, again, we take a natural approach to our ingredients, but very different from the scalp soothing that we need for the detox essence. So we have two exfoliators. So we try to really target our ingredients to what the hair and scalp needs for that product.

10:53That's awesome. I like that. I want to, Sade, I would love for you to chime in here. I mean, I know that you also transitioned from being cosmetologist to working in product development, especially with cosmetic chemistry. I mean, how do you view this approach to hair health where there is a focus on the scalp? I love the holistic approach that we take with phormycomorphosis in general. We're perfecting the hair. We're improving the skin of the scalp and also strengthening it to perfect the results of all of our specialties with all of these combinations of various ingredients. I know that, for instance, you guys were talking about the hyaluronic acid within scalp and also hair care and comparing it to skin care.

11:39So within our Morphosis De-Stress Serum, hyaluronic acid plays a key role in scalp hydration and also protection. So this combined with the licorice extract, the vitamin B12, and also arginine, which is an amino acid, it helps to just improve that scalp oxygenation and soothe inflammation and sensitivity. So this is a real game changer, taking that specific ingredient and applying it to where it's needed most to help alleviate distressed, irritated scalps. Using hyaluronic acid within our products, that was something that was very unique to Framisi. as just as unique as when we use coconut oil in our color bases.

12:18No one before was using that. You know, going back to 1979, when Vermeesi was first launched in the United States, everyone beforehand was using more of a liquid base. So in that same respect, we're always looking at the latest ingredients, the latest fermented technology, and just adding that into our products just to further enhance the experience. because we all know that scalp care is the beginning. It's the essence of hair care. It's been neglected for so long. And I'm just so happy now that it's at the forefront. Yeah, absolutely. You know, I love this idea of, well, not idea, but I love the approach that you guys took from the get-go of this utilizing coconut because coconut oil in a lot of Eastern cultures is very much embedded into the wellness rituals.

13:10I remember growing up and I had a coconut hair oil massage like every single day. And, you know, my hair like never stopped growing. It was, it's kind of crazy. I feel like when it comes to certain things, like coconut, I just feel like it's tried and true. You know, it needs to be something that needs to be highlighted more in the industry because oftentimes consumers have questions like, you know, well, what can really in the long term improve your hair health to where you don't have the breakage, you don't have problems in growth, and you're not seeing as much thinning. And I think sometimes those answers are very much rooted in very tried and true ingredients.

13:48Absolutely. Absolutely. The best ingredients matter. And with our hair color, we offer the highest conditioning color in the industry because of that key ingredient. And you know what's really unique? The Journal of Cosmetic Medicine has proven what we've known all along, you know, the coconut oil and the primary ingredient within that base, that creamy conditioning base that we have, it offers those protective and those conditioning benefits that are far superior to those of other vegetable oils using hair care. It just goes into that inner cortex of the shaft and it helps to protect the hair and minimize protein loss during those chemical services.

14:27So this turns, in turn, this creates superior condition with unsurpassed strength and resilience. In addition, resistance to damage because of its penetrating properties. Not to mention, it's going to give those clients, those stylists that are in the salon, they're going to observe that amazing, beautiful shine. And also they're going to notice how long that hair color lasts. We're finding that even with salons that do convert, they'll switch over. You know, they've used another hair color and they say their clients are coming back, telling them they notice the difference. I mean, after one application, you know, so it does make a difference.

15:08Like you said, the coconut oil does make a difference in the performance of the product and long-term usage. Because a lot of, we have a test salon here in our facility where we do half-head evaluations on all competitive products. And what we find is it's the repeated usage. So that's important. It's not just that one first day application where you check the gray coverage or the shine, but it's the long-term longevity and repeated usage. And what we find with our coconut oil cream bases are that repeated usage, the hair becomes, it's receiving a conditioning treatment with every color application.

15:49So the more our clients, they come back for repeat application and they're noticing stronger, healthier hair. Where with the others, you know, every time you have a color service, it is a chemical that's applied to the hair. So there is protein loss. But because the coconut oil replaces that protein loss far more superior than any other oils out there, you know, we're noticing that with repeat usage, we have this beautiful hair color that lasts, number one, you know, the conditioning, but the hair just keeps on getting stronger and stronger with each application. Absolutely. And, you know, I think there is, and, you know, I don't, I'm going to link this study if I can find it, but I think I've read a long time ago about something regarding hair diameter and the use of coconut oil.

16:42Like there was like a correlation between like people who were like using it consistently there was a increase in the diameter of each strand of hair so like i don't know how i'm going to find that study i'm going to dig it up and link it but i mean it's a huge i mean there's a huge difference that you see with coconut oil you know i think it's something that um has kind of been slept on for a long time you know um especially for anyone out there like if you're experiencing things like hair thinning i mean hair thinning is it's a very interesting concept. And I think a lot of the things that, you know, we were just talking about, right, with scalp health, they really play a role.

17:19You know, I would love to dive into that a little bit more. Maria, you had mentioned something about exfoliation, right, of the scalp and like kind of getting rid of that residue and all the things that settle into our scalp. And if you could talk to us a little bit more about that. Yeah, so I mean, you definitely need to detox and get rid of all that's on the scalp. And what we're finding now too, is more, you know, they're not, we're not shampooing as often as we did before yeah so we're using dry shampoos sometimes in between so we have medicine a lot of medicine buildup is is happening so there's a lot of different well waters you know hard waters minerals so there's a lot of different buildup on the scalp that ends up kind of choking the hair bulb if you think about the hair you know it needs an environment that's conducive to hair growth.

18:11You know, you need to get rid of that, just like you exfoliate the face to get rid of all those dead cells, the skin, you know, that needs to be removed so that your hair, your face shines again. You know, after you do an exfoliating scrub, you see the difference in your face. Well, that's the same hair with the scalp. So you're choking all those hair follicles with all that buildup that's clogging. So the natural growth of the hair is affected. Now your different phases of growth, they all come to a standstill because the hair, you don't have that normal cycle anymore. So by exfoliating and getting rid of that, you promote healthier, thicker hair.

18:56Because once you start to clog those hair follicles, the hair starts to thin, appears thin and limp. So by cleansing that scalp, by removing all that residue from the hair, from the scalp. Now the follicles are able to breathe. You're, you're given an oxygen again. You're able to, to have that follicle come up again. And as a result, you, you noticed your hair looking fuller, more body, and you notice less of a hair loss. Right. Right. That makes sense. And, you know, I actually want to talk about this. And I would love to get you guys' opinion here because I, I've noticed that as well. People are not washing their hair as much.

19:35And for me, I'm not going to lie. I mean, this is a personal choice, I guess. I've never been able to understand that. You know, I think that there's a lot of, like, myths around this. You know, people say things like, well, you can strip all the natural oils, you know, from your scalp, and then you're going to have, like, I've never experienced that. Like, I wash my hair almost every day, if not every other day, and I've never had any issues. And I would love to talk about like where, you know, this really fits in, in terms of, you know, like how important is it to clean your scalp versus, you know, not wash as often?

20:11Well, the key to having a balanced scalp is just having that gentle cleansing without stripping those natural oils. So that's the essence of scalp health. You know, over-shampooing with a lot of harsh surfactants can strip those natural oils. And then in turn, that causes your scalp to overcompensate and create more sebum. So nowadays, I'm noticing with a lot of formulas, there are much milder surfactants. So it's not even as much of a factor anymore as it was before. But using a gentle sulfate-free cleanser like the Morphosis Cleansing Shampoo with that fermented arnica extract that's fermented in addition to lavender and rosemary, that coupled with that exfoliation, that helps to balance the scalp and allow it to go a little bit longer without shampooing, but not to the point to what we're seeing around.

21:03people are going a week or more. And so that can sometimes become problematic. I know in the past, people had talked about a lot of stylists and a lot of clients in the salon had talked about not shampooing as often because they believe that it stripped their scalp, but it's all about quality ingredients and quality products that you're using to cleanse and exfoliate the scalp. So with mucosis, even if you shampoo daily, that's not an issue because you're actually cleansing and detoxifying that scalp and allowing, you know, an increased oxygenation of that follicle. So it's, it's, it's a win-win.

21:41But it all depends on what, you know, you were using in the past. And even as a salon professional, those were conversations that I had in the past with a lot of my clients as well. Yeah, that's a really, I'm so glad you said that because I feel like that That is one of the biggest hallmarks of this argument, right? Is that, you know, you're going to have this issue of oils. But yeah, if you're gently cleansing your scalp, you know, I love that you brought up oxygenation because it is very important, you know, to kind of get the also like blood flow is huge, right? When you're washing your scalp and you're massaging it, you're getting blood flow going.

22:19And if you do that on the daily, even if you don't use like, like you said, if you don't use the harsh products, it wouldn't be an issue. But more importantly, you get more benefits at the end of the day because you're getting blood flow there. You're oxygenating. You're getting tissue health at the end of the day. So that's very, very important. And I think that a lot more consumers need to get behind this concept rather than just, you know, Maria, you had mentioned dry shampoos. Like, I personally, I can't stand dry shampoos. I think they just, you know, like I use it once and I'm like, oh, God, you know, like my hair starts itching and stuff, you know.

22:51I know, and it builds up, and we see so many negative effects of long-term usage of these dry shampoos, especially related to hair color and to those type of services, because they interfere. And then the scalp, you know, is actually, by using those products, you're clogging those follicles. You know, so they're not shampooing, so they're using this, so they're clogging the follicle, and then they're telling us that, you know, their hair is thinning. You see more and more younger kids now with thinning hair issues. And it's, you know, it's important to use the right products that exfoliate, get rid of that residue, and allow that scalp to have a clean environment that's conducive to hair growth and hair health.

23:40Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. I think, you know, for anyone listening out there, if you are confused about this topic, you know, definitely like read into it a little bit because these are very, very valid points that are brought up here, you know, in terms of just, I think we have to understand the physiology. I really do feel like that's where a lot of times consumers like we hit the we miss the mark, you know, with like figuring out what trend is actually worth following because, you know, at the end of the day, science is science and we can't ignore it, you know. So when it comes to any kind of tissue and whether that's your scalp, your skin, wherever it is, you have to make sure that the fundamentals are met.

24:19So some of the things that we're discussing here, I feel that those are fundamentals to make sure that you're getting enough blood to your tissue and it is actually healthy. So it's very important. And another too is to use ingredients that are not too heavy. A lot of products contain ingredients that are heavy on the scalp. Yeah, they they weigh the hair down. So it's important. That's why we believe so much in this clean approach to better beauty. You know, you don't it's minimal. You don't need a lot of ingredients to make it work. You know, so it has to be a clean formula in addition to just the cleaning, you know, for the environment, the free ofs.

24:59We have the sulfate free, all of that in addition to that. But the formula itself is a clean, weightless formula because that's what we find with a lot of these products that are dressed in the scalp. They tend to be a little heavier and tend to coat a little bit more. So maybe there's a misconception out there that, you know, clean products or green products don't work, you know, because there are products that don't work because they're green and more sustainable. But what we found here, because we saw that need in our market for targeted products that do work, but are friendly to the environment, you know, we felt strong that we had to come up with this line to really, you know, to have that opportunity available for everybody to have their scalp addressed while still taking care of our environment.

25:54Absolutely. There was one thing I just wanted to chime in on with the concept of clean beauty. Gnosis is not just about hair and scalp health. It actually embodies the principles of clean beauty by using those lightweight, cold processed, natural and sustainable ingredients that are going to deliver those results without those extra unnecessary fillers, harsh chemicals, or even causing environmental harm. So with clean beauty, the focus is on safe, effective, and non-toxic formulations. And the reason that we have this all encompassing with the evolution of morphosis, it just follows that primary philosophy because we have those naturally derived ingredients.

26:39It's up to 98 % natural formulations with plant-based extracts like the fermented organic arnica extract, the upcycled kiwi seeds and zeolite to help detox and help to nourish the skin of the scalp and also the hair without that synthetic buildup. I think that the public also fails to realize that the scalp, just like the skin on the face, is an actual living, breathing organism. And we have to care for it in the exact same way because it's the foundation for everything related to the hair. How well the hair holds color and how it reacts to the environment and also the products that are placed on the hair and scalp.

27:22You know, we avoid those harsh additives. We're sulfate free. We're a completely vegan line where we don't have parabens or unnecessary silicones that will clog the follicles or irritate the scalp. So we have all of those hydrolyzed extracts that will go in and penetrate. They are very low molecular weight and they actually penetrate and work to just preserve the hair and scalp from the inside out. So this line is just amazing because it truly supports the essence of scalp and hair health without weighing the hair down with effective ingredients that use the latest technology and processes just to help to refortify and recondition and also to rebalance the pH of the hair and scalp.

28:04So I think that's just amazing because many, many competitors on the market, they have a lot of artificial fragrances and harsh cleansers, which can help to disrupt the scalp microbiome and create that buildup and also that irritation over time. not to mention COVID you know that was a whole nother game changer in respect to scalp health a lot of salons and stylists have even commented that a lot of their their clients while recovering from COVID have lost their hair and they've noticed a lot of scalp sensitivity and irritation so I think that morphosis is the perfect solution absolutely no I think that's those are some really valid points and I'm glad that you brought up the microbiome at the end there because I think you know just to tie it in with everything we've discussed you know so far I think the microbiome is honestly it's one of the biggest concerns when it comes to scalp health and making sure that we're doing what we need to do to maintain our scalp because you know I think oftentimes we think that okay if I you know get rid of the product build up if I get rid of you know whatever it is like my scalp isn't itchy or anything, I'm good.

29:16But it many times it's, it's not the case, because the microbiome takes a long time to get regulated, you have to constantly take care of it. And that's where I completely agree with you, Sardé, in terms of like, making sure that whatever you're using, it has to be clean, it truly has to be clean, for you to not have this rebound effect, right because a lot of times people will lose their microbiome stability and then when what happens is you have overgrowth of you know pathological strange strains of bacteria that causes actually an exacerbated impact on your overall hair health but also your scalp health that's why we have such an uptick lately i don't know if you guys have seen it but like um you know i was reading some papers a while back where people are reporting more and more like fungal infections on the scalp you know they're reporting more things like you know different types of dandruff and and a lot of different pathologies are coming up now because we're not really looking at it from this holistic point of view of no it's health first and i don't need the extremely harsh ingredients i don't need everything to be like super powered and like you know what i mean like extra strength and stuff it needs to be a balance so i completely agree with like you know for me sees like those on this where it's like great products that are gentle enough to where you can actually utilize them every day and they're not going to interfere with that overall balance that you're trying to maintain, you know, day to day.

30:42Exactly. So this is a truly targeted holistic approach. And what's even better on top of balancing and making sure the pH of all the microorganisms on the scalp that naturally exists there are in perfect balance. We also have something that is going to preserve hair color because a lot of treatments I know with a lot of clients in the past that have had dandruff or excessive yeast on their scalp, how using their prescribed medicated shampoos would often completely ruin their hair color and the condition of their hair. Well, that's not the case with this line. It's gentle enough to balance the scalp, but it's also going to condition and protect hair color as well.

31:22That is a key game changer amongst other competitors in the clean beauty market. Right. Well, I've really loved learning about Firmisi, and I think all of our listeners for anyone tuning in I hope you guys have really enjoyed this episode I've learned a lot here and I hope you have as well definitely check out the brand I'm going to be linking all of the important websites and the information in the show notes so definitely scroll down and check that out but thank you guys so much Maria and Sharday this was wonderful and lovely chatting with you thank you thank you nice chatting with you too thank you pleasure hey guys so I hope you love that episode please make sure to hit subscribe if you're tuning in to us on any podcast platform.